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Another U.S. Veteran Passionately Pleads: "Please Don't Thank Me For My Service"
Submitted by Mike Krieger via Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,
It wasn’t true. There was a problem. I could see it from the way he looked down. And I could see it on the faces of some of the other vets who work with Mr. Garth when I thanked them too. What gives, I asked? Who doesn’t want to be thanked for their military service?
Many people, it turns out. Mike Freedman, a Green Beret, calls it the “thank you for your service phenomenon.” To some recent vets - by no stretch all of them — the thanks comes across as shallow, disconnected, a reflexive offering from people who, while meaning well, have no clue what soldiers did over there or what motivated them to go, and who would never have gone themselves nor sent their own sons and daughters.
Mr. Garth, 26, said that when he gets thanked it can feel self-serving for the thankers, suggesting that he did it for them, and that they somehow understand the sacrifice, night terrors, feelings of loss and bewilderment. Or don’t think about it at all.
- From the New York Times article: Please Don’t Thank Me for My Service
Last fall, Liberty Blitzkrieg highlighted a powerful letter written by former U.S. Army Ranger Rory Fanning, in the post: “Stop Thanking Me for My Service” – Former U.S. Army Ranger Blasts American Foreign Policy and The Corporate State. In it, I explained why his comments resonated so powerfully with me. Here’s an excerpt:
I have to admit, whenever I find myself in the midst of a large public gathering (which fortunately isn’t that often), and the token veteran or two is called out in front of the masses to “honor” I immediately begin to cringe as a result of a massive internal conflict. On the one hand, I recognize that the veteran(s) being honored is most likely a decent human being. Either poor or extraordinarily brainwashed, the man or woman paraded in front of the crowd is nothing more than a pawn. Even if their spouse hasn’t left them; even if whatever conflict they were involved in didn’t result in a permanent disability or post traumatic stress disorder, this person has been used and abused, and thirty seconds of cheering in between ravenous bites out of a footlong hotdog from a drunk and apathetic crowd isn’t going to change that. I don’t harbor negative sentiments toward the veteran.
On the other hand, the entire spectacle makes me sick. I refuse to participate in the superficial charade for many reasons, but the primary one is that I don’t want to play any part in the crowd’s insatiable imbecility. It’s the stupidity and ignorance of the masses that the corporate-state preys upon, and that’s precisely what’s on full display at these tired and phony imperialist celebrations.
Interestingly and satisfyingly, it appears the phony “thank you for your service” comment is seen as the empty, thoughtless platitude it is by a large amount of U.S. veterans. Rather than saying “thank your for your service,” it appears increasingly clear the appropriate sentiment should be something like, “I’m really sorry American leadership carelessly sacrificed your life for no good reason.”
Don’t take it from me though. Read the following excerpts from a recent New York Times article focusing on the travails of U.S. Marine veteran Hunter Garth:
I didn’t know any of this — nor the remarkable story of his survival that day — when I met him two months ago in Colorado while reporting for an article about the marijuana industry, for which Mr. Garth and his company provide security. But I did know he was a vet and so I did what seemed natural: I thanked him for his service.
“No problem,” he said.
It wasn’t true. There was a problem. I could see it from the way he looked down. And I could see it on the faces of some of the other vets who work with Mr. Garth when I thanked them too. What gives, I asked? Who doesn’t want to be thanked for their military service?
Many people, it turns out. Mike Freedman, a Green Beret, calls it the “thank you for your service phenomenon.” To some recent vets — by no stretch all of them — the thanks comes across as shallow, disconnected, a reflexive offering from people who, while meaning well, have no clue what soldiers did over there or what motivated them to go, and who would never have gone themselves nor sent their own sons and daughters.
Mr. Garth, 26, said that when he gets thanked it can feel self-serving for the thankers, suggesting that he did it for them, and that they somehow understand the sacrifice, night terrors, feelings of loss and bewilderment. Or don’t think about it at all.
The issue has been percolating for a few years, elucidated memorably in “Billy Lynn’s Long Halftime Walk,” a 2012 National Book Award finalist about a group of soldiers being feted at halftime of a Dallas Cowboys game. The soldiers express dread over people rushing to offer thanks, pregnant with obligation and blood lust and “their voices throbbing like lovers.”
The idea of giving thanks while not participating themselves is one of the core vet quibbles, said Mr. Freedman, the Green Beret. The joke has become so prevalent, he said, that servicemen and women sometimes walk up to one another pretending to be “misty-eyed” and mockingly say “Thanks for your service.”
Mr. Freedman, 33, feels like the thanks “alleviates some of the civilian guilt,” adding: “They have no skin in the game with these wars. There’s no draft.”
No real opinions either, he said. “At least with Vietnam, people spit on you and you knew they had an opinion.”
“Thank you for your service,” he said, is almost the equivalent of “I haven’t thought about any of this.”
Tim O’Brien, a Vietnam vet and the author of the acclaimed book “The Things They Carried,” told me that his war’s vets who believed in the mission like to be thanked. Others, himself included, find that “something in the stomach tumbles” from expressions of appreciation that are so disconnected from the “evil, nasty stuff you do in war.”
The more so, he said, “when your war turns out to have feet of clay” — whether fighting peasants in Vietnam or in the name of eradicating weapons of mass destruction that never materialized.
But doesn’t their sacrifice merit thanks? “Patriotic gloss,” responded Mr. O’Brien, an unofficial poet laureate of war who essentially elevates the issue to the philosophical; to him, we’re thanking without having the courage to ask whether the mission is even right.
As we know all too well, most Americans aren’t inclined to thinking very much in the first place, so this is no surprise.
It wasn’t what he romanticized. First training and waiting. Then the reality that he might die, along with his friends — 17 of them did, in action, by accident or by suicide. And, he now asks, for what?
So what to say to a vet? Maybe promise to vote next time, Mr. Freedman said, or offer a scholarship or job (as, he said, some places have stepped up and done). Stand up for what’s right, suggested Mr. O’Brien. Give $100 to a vet, Ben Fountain, author of the “Billy Lynn” book, half-joked, saying it would at least show some sacrifice on the thanker’s part.
Perhaps the most disturbing part of all this, is that the American public and U.S. politicians have learned absolutely zero lessons from the last decade and a half of constant war. In fact, the bloodlust and irrational drive toward military action all over the globe continues unabated. As Charles Pierce notes in his Esquire article, Drums Along The Potomac: How This Country Never Learns Anything:
Quite frankly, this has been one of the more depressing weeks we have seen in a very long time. The country seems to be sliding down some very familiar tracks into a military engagement in the Middle East — an engagement that, at the moment, seems to be cloudy in its objectives, vague in its outlines, and obscure on the simple fact of what we are supposedly fighting for, and who we will be fighting with. Can we fight the Islamic State generally without help from (gasp!) Iran? Can we fight the Islamic State in Syria without a de facto alliance with Hafez al-Assad, who was Hitler only a year or so ago? And the most recent polling seems to indicate that all the institutions that are supposed to act as a brake on war powers within a self-governing republic are working in reverse again. The Congress is going to debate how much leeway it should give the president to make war, not whether he should be allowed to do it at all. The elite media, having scared Americans to death by giving the barbarians and their slaughter porn the international platform the barbarians so desired, is jumping on board with both feet. (To cite only one example, Chris Matthews is suiting up again.) The country has been prepared to give its children up again.
But it may not be enough. The next presidential election is gearing up, and what is going on in the Middle East has changed the dynamic of that race utterly. People may be running for president with American troops in harm’s way, whether the engagement there is general or not. The opinion of the country has been manufactured again to demand a war with no clear goals and no clear endpoint. Voices of reason and moderation — Hi, Marie Harf! — are being shouted down by conservatives and only tepidly supported by liberals. Nearly 100 years ago, rising in the Senate to oppose the entry of the United States into World War I, Senator Robert LaFollette of Wisconsin called the bluff of every hawk who ever called for a blind punch at a designated enemy.
We should not seek to hide our blunder behind the smoke of battle to inflame the mind of our people by half truths into the frenzy of war in order that they may never appreciate the real cause of it until it is too late. I do not believe that our national honor is served by such a course. The right way is the honorable way.
The ground already is prepared, the soil tilled. The mission already is creeping.
Repeat after me: USA! USA!’
* * *
For related articles, see:
A Marine’s Incredible Letter to Senator Dianne Feinstein
Meet Brandon Bryant: The Drone Operator Who Quit After Killing a Child
Propaganda 101 – How the Pentagon is Trying to Rewrite Vietnam War History
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We thanked some folks.....
If you choose to enlist being ignorant of your "purpose" than it's your own fault.
No pitty here.
People who enlist to serve for "the greater good" only enable those in power to use them as they see fit.
You are a FUCKING IDIOT... Go to Hell cock sucker...
As somebody who has both active and former military in the family, I'm going to tell you something you don't want to hear:
They don't thirst for war. Most of them don't join for idealogical reasons. They mostly hate the course our governent is taking, especially under this president, as most of us do. They tend conservative in their political leanings. They would gladly trade your "thanks" for a belief that what they do mattered/matters.
They are as frustrated as we are.
They're tired of the weak/inept use of their strong capabilities.
Those who have beein in long enough to remember concept of "train like your fight, fight like you train" are getting the hell out as fast as they can. They're DONE.
I could go on for paragraphs, but my point is that our military forces, the rank and file, are not our enemy. They aren't sealed in a bubble of governent propoganda waiting for their next taste of blood. They want REAL leadership as much as we do. And they realize they aren't getting it as much as we do. They're just not allowed to speak out about it in public with the same freedom we are afforded.
I think you got it right.
So next time you see recruiters in your school or your crib
Tell 'em thank you for the offer but you'd rather you lived
We got more than just our bodies to offer
So fuck a coffin wrapped in red, white, and blue, withdraw passed due
Another reason why Obozo is feverishly replacing all the top military brass with ass-kissers...
He's coup-proofing himself from any possible action by the US military for all the unconstitutional shit he's doing, and will do.
How can an American soldier believe he or she has been fighting for anyone besides the elites and thus for the undermining of the people's rights in the last 50 years? The suicides are because boys looking for some way to become men join the military given the MIC marketing of it being so awesome. Then they get treated like cattle by douche officers and sent to shoot children in some God forsaken place with no electricity on the other side of the planet. It dawns on them and Ranger above that it is all bullshit. They were sold a lie. They paid with blood and regret. They come home and are honored while they know what they did and took part in.
Some are borderline sociopaths and have no real feelings. Others shoot themselves. Others drink the pain away.
I'm so thankful when I almost bought the lie that my brothers, both vets, stopped me. It is all bullshit propaganda glorifying the elites' hit squad.
Don't join, don't let your kids join. That Super Bowl commercial with the guy letting his fucking daughter go to war made me want to puke. That is sick twisted marketing of an evil society.
You nailed it.
What we need is a war that nobody joins up for.
The ONLY way all these immoral wars could have been fought since we hauled ass out of Viet Nam is due to the elimination of the draft. The average American may not want to hear it, but it is true. The MIC learned it's lessons well in that war, which may have gone on for another 10 years if enough citizens had not wised up and gave the politicians a big 'F You' with the chant that became a roar -- "Hell no, we won't go."
There are 2 simple things that would stop this insanity in it's tracks.
First, bring back the draft, and second, require a war tax to pay as you go. Problem solved. We would only get involved in the kind of conflicts our Founding Fathers envisioned - real threats to America's survival. Not a bunch of half-baked BS like we have to fight them over there before they come over here.
When a person has skin in the game, it does wonders to clarify their thinking. They start paying attention and asking real questions. Then, when the country is truly unified to fight a common enemy, America is unstoppable. When you fight in such a conflict against a clear and present danger, soldiers don't come home overcome with guilt and mixed emotions. They don't kill themselves in vast numbers and become drug dependent. After WW2, those troops came home and built the richest, most dynamic society ever. They believed they had fought a just war. They were proud and we were unified as a country.
Look at how much we have lost because of all this war-mongering.
Draft + war tax = very little need for either.
After WW2, those troops came home and built the richest, most dynamic society ever. They believed they had fought a just war. They were proud and we were unified as a country.
If we had the internet back then, the truth of that hoax would have been exposed too.
You're getting in to this too deep...most enlist because they are looking for a job...and hopefully it won't turn into anything but an education. I've known some that like the combat pay...albeit their wives usually have it spent by the time they get home. So, most of these kids aren't that deep. But some are policeman head types and are driven to join once they find out the prison system won't be that much fun to work for.
Excellent post NoDebt .... excellent.
Our future as a free people depends on veterans waking up to the true nature of our corrupt system in exponentially larger numbers than the hoi polloi. They have the characteristics, experience and knowledge needed to beat this coming police/surveillance state at it's own game. Alot of people on forums talk big about stockpiling guns and ammo, and how tough they are, yet have no idea of basic marksmanship fundamentals, or effective tactical employment of these systems. I gave my blood, sweat, and tears for this country out of ignorance and blind pride, and when I finally awoke to the truth, it filled me with purpose, I encourage all the veterans I meet to stop being pawns in this clusterfuck game, we need to start being players.
I maintain that the only way to thank a Vet, lies in endeavoring to NOT create more of them. This requires an end to War, which requires an end to The State. It must come peacefully, but it won't be bloodless.
+100000
What takes real courage is being able to question everything you've been taught all your life. What takes real courage is recognizing what you see right before your eyes. What takes real courage is to recognize your own moral responsibility for your own actions and to not try to hide behind "I was just following orders."
These men are the products of the same brain washing in 'schools', their families, and the media as the rest of us. All the best to those of them that have chosen to open their eyes now. Most of us have experienced how upsetting it is to realize we've been lied to. But, just try to imagine how much more devastating it is to see that people you cared for died for such lies, or that you killed for such lies..
Is it true the illegal alien muslim liar in chief fudgepacker didn't send any of his progressive liberal democrap minons to Chris Kyle's memorial? But of course he sent its turd minions ti Ferguson so foment racial division in our country, didn't it.
I can't speak to the motivation of those who join the military in the post-draft era, but I enlisted during Vietnam because I didn't care to play the odds with the draft. By enlisting, I had my choice of services which in and of itself dramatically increased my odds of not coming home in a body bag.
I did not re-up.
You and many others made that wise decision. Deferments were hard to come by. I thought I would be safe in school. After all, tricky Dick got elected in '68 with his secret plan to end the war Too bad for me, I ran out of money in 1969 as I was starting my senior year of college, and stayed out of school for the fall semester to work, with plans for starting back the next semester. That fall, a new program was announced - the lottery - and in December, my number came up.
My experiences from then forward made me a life long cynic, and essentially an enemy of the state. I question everything, and trust nothing emanating from the government. I am sad to say, my attitude has served me well. I wish it weren't so, as I love what America once stood for. I was a military brat, and grew up on bases around the world. My Father, a retired Artillery Sargent Major and veteran of WW2 and Korea, was buried in full dress uniform in 2007 with a stunning military ceremony. I was Scout, from Cub all the way through Explorer. I was a true believer, and worked my ass off to reach the American Dream, and there were so many like me back then. WE were everywhere, we have been betrayed, and saddest of all, we let it happen.
But for a lot of these kids, it's their best way out of their current circumstances. And they are willing to risk dying to get it. Don't you dare disrespect them .. they are your betters.
Bullshit. No one joins the armed forces for the money.
So what exactly are the fighting for?
My freedom?
Contrary to what the MSM feeds you. There hasn't been a justifiable war we've engaged in since WW2.
These 'current' vets don't mean shit.
But please continue to hipe them up with your glorifying war movies.
Cause we all know they hate us for our freedom.
I repeat, you are a fucking idiot...
You got an argument? Let's hear it.
Seems everything said right above your post is spot on.
i will try to gently educate you why your downvotes are overwhelming your upvotes.
In the face of profound abuse of power and empire that disregards the lives destroyed by wars prosecuted for power and wealth, the citizenry - denied genuine democratic power - have few tools available to them. But Shame is one available to a populace no matter how much their liberties are supressed.
It is the duty of true patriots and libertarians to make known a pervasive sense of shame will be deployed against those who allow themselves to be the servants of evil.
The automatic glorification of soldiers is part of the mechanism they use to perpetuate empire.
So recant your position or let that shame be extended to you.
Its only shame. Thats a lot less dangerous to you and the military than what they inflict on countless innocents.
"Contrary to what the MSM feeds you. There hasn't been a justifiable war we've engaged in since WW2."
Exactly.
Fuck the flag waving brainwashed retards.
You have obviously forgot about Grenada and Panama.
:)
Some fight to not go to jail, some want their GI Bill education and VA loan, others are genuinely concerned for their country.
You wouldn't understand because you've probably never sacrificed anything for someone else in your entire short miserable excuse for a life.
Well, let me tell you why I enlisted and what I experienced so you might better understand.
I enlisted in the US Army because my father <a career non-com Marine> forbade me from enlisting in the Marines. He instilled in me a love for Country ethic which <oh silly me> I still have today.
I did not enlist for the money <laughter ensues> I did not enlist for the benefits <say WHAT??> I did not enlist for the college benefits <I was eligible for the GI Bill benefits but never used them before they ran out>
So, why did I enlist and what benefit did I get from it? The why is detailed above. The benefits I gained are listed below.
The comraderie: many will joke it up but unless you personally have experienced it ... it's REAL. I never before felt such a connection with a group of people ... EVER.
The work ethic: there is nothing better than military training to get you there!! I dare anyone to dispute this fact.
The willingness to sacrifice myself for the masses: It's a personal thing for me at least. Some call it patriotism, I call it what it is ... my personal commitment to sacrifice my well being for yours <that you won't or can't commit to>.
The training: I learned to shoot a rifle and shoot it well <Expert>. I also learned how to rebuild differentials, transmissions, and transfer cases. I can drive a deuse-and-a-half for goodness sakes!! And can trailer anything and know how to back up with said trailer only with mirrors :))
I also had the priviledge of attending EOD school, so I know how to deal with chemical emergencies, how to disable old munitions, how to set det-charges and such.
I'm a four-year Army 63-hotel veteran and proud of it.
It is past time we stop thanking people for being ignorant just because they have good intentions, especially when their actions are doing the opposite of what they think they are doing. They join for what seems to them like good reasons, but the reality is very different.
reality check for astitchintime:
The comraderie: try forming a local softball team, that way no one gets killed for your sense of inclusion needs
The work ethic: try karate classes, that way no one gets killed for your sense of betterment
The willingness to sacrifice myself for the masses: this is a delusion and if you do not know it, you are ignorant, you are making us less free by helping the elite rape countries of their rightful resources, in doing this, you put those you claim to protect in more danger, the only people you are helping are some assholes, that already have too much, get more power and money to suppress the people you think you are protecting
The training: most can learn anything they put their minds to, if you need someone to ride you to do it, you might not be as strong willed as you seem to think, you certainly did not need the army, you did not need to kill people, nor did you need to make us all less safe to learn these things, which is what really happened
Do yourself and us a favor and stop buying the bullshit!
Here is my version, Tek.
Enlisting and becoming a statist because of your dad’s beliefs is not a rational or intelligent decision to make, I’m sorry.
As far as the benefits:
There are many places to find comraderie (spelling)
You say work ethic then talk about training… I know many people that have a strong work ethic without the military training YOU received.
Sacrifice means many things… what have you given to someone else that you really wanted? Are there not ways of sacrificing more than being a soldier? You are not sacrificing your “well being” (spelling) for mine by working for the us army… you are hurting my wellbeing by being a part of the problem.
Oh my god, the training. How many ways can you kill a man? How many ways can one kill themselves?
“I also had the priviledge of attending EOD school, so I know how to deal…” Should have taken advantage of the GI Bill, buddy.
+33000
the rebuttal on comraderie: I wasn't insisting anyone gets killed. Oh, by the way your suggestion of forming a local softball team juxtaposed against killing people is 'interesting'.
the rebuttal on work ethic: really, karate? the discipline is a thinly veiled mask of assasination, i.e. killing.
I won't even go there on the sacrifice myself thing, you clearly have no clue. You need to get a grip and stop whining about this and that and stop and think ... seriously.
the rebuttal about the training: no one ever rode me into doing anything.
So, do yourself a favor and learn there are two sides to every story and right or wrong, they are really just two different opinions.
@ astitch
No, they really are not just different opinions. Your way innocent people die and every person in this country becomes less safe and more freedoms robbed from them. Wake the fuck up because your country does need you, in the fight for real freedom against the elitists now in control of our government. You know, the ones you chose to help by serving in the military!
Politicians are evil, lying scumbags.
Therefore the people who serve their will are the very best of us.
+1 to Tek and the others who speak the truth.
"The willingness to sacrifice myself for the masses . . ."
Man. Eager cannon-fodder.
Please please read USMC Maj Gen Smedley Butler (1881-1940). He has a few things that he wants to tell you.
Or a little more recent:
About Face Col. David Hackworth (most decorated US soldier at time of his death)
Just a damn fine man who paid the price for speaking the truth (ABC in 1972)
Everyone should be proud of their career choics. No doubt about armed foces trainng, it is terrific for whole life. My son spent a year and graduated all his military training, but before his signed his Army contract for 7 years, he hought about what going to Iraq was all about and risks. Even though he is gung ho and fealess, he wasn't sold on war for which there isn't really a good reason to be killed.
My freedom?
Our freedoms are only being jeopardized by those in Washington.
If the military was protecting freedoms, they are attacking the wrong people.
I joined for money, schooling, and to bang Asian girls.
Check, check, check
..... I think it would have been ok if you stopped at " there hasn't been a justifiable war".....
True there were acts of true self sacrifice all over the place during WW2 but at its core WW2 was as much a charade as any bullshit conflict of today the difference I believe lay in the finesse of old vs that or rather lack thereof in the current era. Banksters were pulling the strings during both WWs of the last century just it was with all the banana wars in between and since. Churchill worked tirelessly to get the US involved and he was aided in this persuit by the Rosevelts et al whilst Wall street - including Papa2 Bush - profitted from the other side of the Franken-Furher Trade.
Ain't nothing noble or useful about any war I can think of - other than revolutionary wars to rid the common man of parasitic entities..... alas there is always an endless supply of parasites out there.....
."No one joins the armed forces for the money"
Currently, that's not 100% true. Granted, the military itself doesn't pay well, BUT, certain specialties provide significant earnings potential in the, ahem, private sector.
Imagine:
You've recently been fired. You're up to your ass in debt. You need to support your family.
Someone walks up to you. Says "I will take care of all your financial problems. You just have to kill this one guy/girl, and you will never ever get in trouble for doing so, though there is a slight risk they might end up killing you instead".
You accept.
Does it make you a good person? Does it make you "better" than others who refuse and say they'll find their own way of dealing with their economic problems?
If that's your excuse, then It doesn't make me feel sorry for your ass when it gets blown sky high...
A lot of people enlist out of economic necessity - it's the only path out of where they are.
If you've survived inner city schools and managed to avoid the worst, odds are you're still not going to make it to college..... same thing if you're growing up in the middle of nowhere.... the military offers a way out of lousy circumstances for many - sometimes the ONLY way out.
And with the massive loss in jobs we've seen throughout the US, sometimes it's the only way to find ANY employment - or get training for something 'better' down the road...
of course there's also the 'one weekend a month' pitch for the Reserves that got many.... that minimal time committment for some extra cash ended up costing far more than expected.
Bingo. It's become a jobs program, and a really inefficient one at that. In 2014, 55% of our budget went to the military. That right there should make people cringe. You're looking at an unprecedented waste of resources, and it's only getting worse.
I respectfully dissagree.
Obama has intentionally made college available for everyone. So, your argumment would have been valid say a couple of decades prior ... but today is moot.
Everyone has their 'token' college degree, but there are no jobs.
For me, this is no different an argument than from back in the 60's when folks flocked to college to avoid the draft.
Today, they are flocking to college to avoid the horrible economy.
What's the difference? You hide where you can.
Dude, you're arguing with a bunch of fags born with a silver spoon. Let it cook, in due time I will drag them and their boyfriends to church like a dog in the night.
Lol fuck you and your church.
the difference is that back then the degree didnt come with an insurmountable debt that couldnt be erased even through bankruptcy
Why not join up with the local mob or gang? They pay well too. I am sorry, but you can't do the wrong thing to improve your circumstances and still expect to be thanked or praised or not be damned for it. Reality is war and those participating make us all less safe, good intentions are meaningless when the result is global fascism.
most of these guys are just teenagers who have been thoroughly conditioned. kids are supposed to do dumb things. makes you wonder where the adult leadership is
i was given little direction as a 90s child. tried to enlist in '99 when i was 18. fortunately, a lengthy juvenile arrest record kept me out.
Say, you're just about the right age to get drafted aren't ya, punk?
wel you know what Kissinger supposetly said about solders..."dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy."
Pity has only one t 90's child. You're probably one of the majority of males who now sport bigger nipples and lots of flesh that protrudes from your shirt. Shame on you for your low opinion of our nation's finest youth. The rules of engagement are set by people like you.
No more war unless we engage to win it. Hearts and minds will follow thereafter.
Lol that all you got? Spelling check and an empty personal attack. Try again chump.
It's ignorant masses like you who cause this problem. When you believe fighting for this country is honorable.
Name one war past 1945 that we fought for the good of the people and not the self interest of others.
Exactly muppet, Serfs up. I pray you don't breed it's people like you we need out of the gene pool and let natural selection take it's course.
how about no more war PERIOD, douchebag. And as for 'hearts and minds later' you are exhibiting precisely the cart-before-horse mentality that has seen America fuck up every theatre of war its engaged in post WW2
if you dont have their hearts and minds BEFORE you turn their homes into depleted uranium moonscapes, you sure as fuck wont afterwards.
hey schmuck this country wouldn't exist if people didn't enlist and sacrifice their lives for others. this site is getting more radical and out in the stratosphere by the day.
we used some folks.....
we abused some folks...
we killed some folks...
USA USA USA
Still Funny!
my neighbor's mother makes $86 /hr on the computer . She has been laid off for 10 months but last month her pay was $21128 just working on the computer for a few hours. go to the website... www.globe-report.com
Thanking a vet is like thanking your jailer. The U.S. is fast becoming the pariah nation of Planet Earth. It's soldiers help reinforce this fact on a daily basis. But, beyond this fucked up situation there is, remarkably, a glimmer of hope. As these perpetual wars of U.S. aggression continue, sooner or later, larger numbers of military cannon fodder will realise that they risk losing life or limb for the wallet of a banker/politician/corporatist. And not, as they've been brainwashed into thinking, the safety and freedom of their families. Then it's on. Only with the military on its side (a coup if you will), can the general population of the U.S. ever hope to regain its REAL freedom. Instead of thanking them for their service why not start to try and talk current serving personnel into rebelling? Mutiny against their fascist masters. Far more productive one feels...
I agree with your post Bob. Has any military coup ever relinquished power voluntarily? It would likely be worse than extraordinary renditions in Chicago.
My Exxon dividends thank you for your service. Having our own security force expense offloaded to us military really helps with growing dividend. War is a racket.
Cheers,
Pigpen (grandfather fought in ww 2, dad in Vietnam and brother is army ranger)
Would you accept a thank you from the MIC and oligarchs everywhere? I don't blame you for saying "no." They really don't give a fuck and just used you. You have night terrors because you were put in danger by people that don't give a fuck about you. Get angry at them, not at some sheep thanking you for saving their freedom or whatever other propaganda has been sold to them. The sheep at least are well meaning.
More garbage....
Sent over to fight in some fucked up sand dune to fight for fat-fuck, rich-sausage-finger, flacid brained, rich fuckers war. They are only heroes in the fact that they loved and fought for the men NEXT TO THEM. That is why they are great. Not that they went over to do the bidding of a very fucked up world. When the rich wage war, the poor die.
WT7
NoPlane
it goes on and on
..hey did you see the market today? Shit is great!
Don't thank a vet- say Fuck You! to a Bankster.
Vets will appreciate it!
Thanks for being a pawn.....?
27 years of service ended five years ago and that is exactly how i feel. Like a fucking pawn...
Hindsight is 20/20. Had I known then what I know now I would have never served. It was nearly as unproductive as the fifteen years of alcoholism that followed......
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I for one think i understand what you're feeling...
Im with you there minus the alcoholism. I only joined for the free college and to maintain my "no debt" status quo
Service is a job. You do what you're told and get paid. You risk your health, you put your life on the line, and you pay the price, either with your nerves or with your limbs. You don't declare wars, you don't issue orders. It's a job like any other job.
I'm not in the military. I never served, only my relatives did. Father was an aerospace engineer, grandfather was a pilot. That being said, I do own a car and I drive it around on oil that's been subsidized by our endless invasions. I pay taxes, so regardless of my counter-establishment position, I physically support the political class by paying their wages and letting them get away with money-printing. I buy goods that's been manufactured in 3rd world countries such as Vietnam and Korea who'd been bombed into the stone age and turned into slave camps for the benefit of our great empire.
Regardless of whether I serve or not - I do my part. I'm as much an invader and a murderer as anyone holding a gun or marching through foreign land. I serve the same set of masters that send our men and women overseas to do their bidding. I cannot criticize anyone in the military, because I'm as much a part of the same machine as they are. All I can do is share the guilt.
And you're amazing. That kind of insightful introspection is so rare in a world full of people who externalize everything negative about themselves, their situation, their environment, and their country. It's never their fault, when in reality we are all the cumulative result of every decision we have ever made.
Now that is the TRUTH, except most jobs don't make America less safe or kill daily. It is every adult American's fault the military serves the oligarchs, but if you are ignorant enough to join, it's no one's fault but your own. Don't expect a pat on the back for serving fascism.
"Just following orders" is the ultimate moral hazard.
I have a job that I perform.
I, also, do not kill people.
I wonder how many achieve the level of realization Smedley Butler attained?
Reminds me of Ron Paul in the debates:
http://youtu.be/mIx8quNGwhQ
Ron Paul booed for mentioning golden rule in debates.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v8qtZ3I5AM
More and more, everyday.
should thank them for the blood and oil, makes the world go round.
Save a vet, nailgun a bankster.
...... could somebody please start with that strigoi Soros and all his geriatric blood sucking ilk ...... think of the children for the love of god, won't somebody please think of the children...
Is there glory or some other reward in feigned thanks or praise for the deluded? "Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad" spake Prometheus ~Longfellow. You would be mad to believe the feigned praise of others.
I've often herd the phrase - if my president tells me to fight then I fight - Fuck me with a drainage tile - how can anybody and I mean anybody look at the past 8 of these fuctards and say that with any level of conviction..... I can understand fighting to defend your country but never your politicians ..... quite the contrary those fuckers should be open season same as ducks ..... just a thought........ just a real pleasant thought...
It's a small thing really, and I almost hate to bring it up, but we haven't fought a War to defend America for several hundred years now.....
ive often wondered what people would have thought if instead of the WTC, the ragheads had flown jets into a joint session of Congress,
You actually still think that 19 Arabs, whose last technical experience was riding a camel in the desert, actually flew anything into anything. I cannot believe after all this time and the tons of evidence available that you still believe the 911 official story clap trap.
The hymiecaps would never fly a jet (full of civilians of course) into their own bought and paid for whorehouse.
@rackshas, +1 It makes me sick when I hear Donald Rumsfeld reply to a reporters question regarding the high amount of casualties from IED's saying "we go to war with the army we have, not the army we want." I'm drunk! there, I said it. My apolgfies
Thank Dear Leader Obama for totally FUCKING up the country with Obamacare, amnesty for illegal aliens, executive law making - bypassing the Constitution, ILLEGAL WARS, an ever more powerful government machine choking off business in the U.S, and on, and on...
and W had NOTHING to do with that path?
please get over the Democrat/Republican false dichotomy.....
Wow. That is a stupid comment on SO many levels...
(Tip: I never said positive or negative about W. I never said D, R, I, L, or other party. You read a LOT into things, don't you?)
What you're missing is that the president is just doing his job. When the next president is elected, he will get his marching orders from the exact same people who pull Obama's strings. It's all rigged... the last president who tried making decisions was shot dead in the back of a limo. Stop wasting your anger on puppets.
Tinfoil hat time! So funny. Thanks for that.
"...the president is just doing his job." LOL!
Of course, Congress and the Supreme Court had no role to play in any of this.
It seems like almost every day that I pass cars on the road that are proudly 'SPORTIN' their stupid ovalish window or bumper stickers that say IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN, even VIETNAM [I actually saw a KOREA today].
I wouldn't even know what to say to these people if I met them in real life. I mean hell, it's kind of hard to blame the KOREA & VIETNAM ones because they didn't have much choice, but if you're putting a sticker on your car these days it's basically saying. "Yeah ~ I want me summa dat THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE baloney. Which means you never got a clue.
Today [I'm dead serious], I also saw a:
I <3 OBAMACARE sticker
at least a half dozen "WE WILL NEVER FORGET 9/11" stickers
& a HILLARY 2016 sticker
It wasn't a banner day
No worries, it won't be long before the next trauma based mind control episode. After it occurs, we'll have a new color for the silly ass "Support the Troops" ribbon decal...
Trauma based mind control like WTC7 collapsed at freefall speed because of unchecked office fires?
Get me a beer, that cognitive dissonance is sure a bitch.
Mr. Freedman, 33, feels like the thanks “alleviates some of the civilian guilt,” adding: “They have no skin in the game with these wars. There’s no draft.”
Maybe I'm misunderstanding that statement, but on direct look I can only respond:
Exactly, and fuck you too. You chose to go that way, you can maybe ask for my sympathy for the negative side effects on you, but you cannot demand my full understanding of your stupidity.
The con game of the globalists gets ugly when the military realise they are thugs and murderers--mercenaries for pedophile banksters.
Ugly for everyone.
An all volunteer military creates its own special 'echo chamber' - no thinking or dissent allowed.
It's very different with a draft. I was at West Point for a brief time towards the end of 'Nam - though before Nixon bombed Cambodia. Our firsties (seniors) entered after Tet. They couldn't even fill all the appointments for that class. You had a real cross section - some gung ho but many who were there only to put 'Nam off for 4 more years - guys who'd already started college but pulled low lottery numbers. Better to go to West Point and hope for a better slot than enlisted foot slogger - and maybe, maybe things would be 'better' - or even over - in four more years. After three years of seeing guys you'd gone to school with coming home in body bags even the die-hards were rethinking the point of it all.
Our class was heavily recruited in high schools - really sold the whole 'God and Country' bit. We got there and went 'WTF?' - in part BECAUSE so many of our upperclassmen openly expressed contempt for any 'idealism' - reality had set in for them a long time back. 40% of my class resigned - a record that holds to this day. The Army couldn't figure out what went wrong...... oblivious morons.
We had a platoon leader who was a natural leader - a guy you'd follow anywhere, just what teh Army desperately needed... someone who looked out for his men, not someone willing to get peopel killed whileseeking a silver star. But clearly the Army HATED this guy. Screwed him over regularly while rewarding the assholes who were likely to get fragged within a week. When you saw how screwed up things were you had real second thoughts about putting YOUR life in their hands. Got a lottery number over 350 AFTER I quit. I'd have gone if drafted but sure as hell diddn't want to be responsible for a platoon (likely assignment on graduation) in an Army that was so out of touch. FUBAR didin't begion to describe it all. Even our enlisted instructors (all combat vets) thought things were fucked at that point.
oh... and not a lot of moral or ethical 'high ground' being occupied. the smell of dope up by Michie Stadium was usually pretty strong and you were told point blank not to worry if you got a girl pregnant (a cadet couldn't be married until after graduation - though one firstie had 3 kids with his 'girlfriend'). The Army would 'take care of things' if something happened so you wouldn't have to resign and get married. And though a cadet willl not lie cheat or steal or tolerate those that do, there was a fine art in telling what was technically the truth - or avoiding the intent of a question......
Wow, this is an interesting perspective and one I've never experienced. Thanks for sharing. I am of the enlisted variety so never had the whole West Point officer perspective.
My father was one of those "enlisted foot sloggers" and started his service in Korea. He did three tours in Viet Nam (the last one he volunteered for because he was a senior non-com and wanted to help the new draftees survive). But he survived Viet Nam, it was the horrors of that war and the knowledge of those young 'grunts' he sent out on patrol that never came back that ultimately killed him.
I had the displeasure of serving alongside some of those West Point 'butterbars' during my peacetime service and I thought on more than one occasion "My GOD, I hope this alert is only a drill because my platoon leader is a clueless MORON".
I forgot to mention that my father was not drafted. He enlisted in 1955.
You see, there are those that hide from the inevitable and there are those that embrace the inevitable.
I agree wholeheartly with this article and can understand why service members would prefer not to be thanked for their service. It does indeed appear to be self-serving for the 'thanker'.
I am an ex-service member of the female persuasion and my mother likes to point out that she makes a big deal out of personally thanking servicemen in uniform for their service. I've always thought to myself that I would not like to be approached in public while in uniform and 'personally thanked'. It would make me feel awkward and uncomfortable.
Interestingly enough, my mother has never personally thanked me for my service.
Edited to add: My father was a career Marine, so she had that whole 'I love a man in a uniform' bias and of course of all the services the Marines had the best uniform :) Well, at least the Marines wore it well!
Semper Fi
some great comments on this thread..esp the old vets,
I would like all of us to :
Thank a tax payer, after all it's the tax payers who make it all possible.
war is a racket.
I'm sure this will ruffle a few feathers, but as I get older, I find myself less willing to thank "soldiers" for their "service". The military is bloated. It is inefficient. It's full of lazy, incompetent people (and some high achievers, as well). If you think the civil service system is a monument to bad government, just wait until you see the US military. Efficiency aside, its mission has little to do with "serving the country" and more about "serving the oligarchy". Most of the young guys I know who went in fell into three categories 1) (naive) men who really wanted to do something good for their country 2) (narcissistic) glory seekers 3) (bored) aimless youth. About the only good thing I can say for the military is it straightens up a lot of fuck ups who would otherwise be in jail. But if that's the primary byproduct of the military, I'll show you a better way to spend 55% of our budget. Yes, 55 fucking percent.
The brutal truth is, if you want to REALLY serve your country, do something that matters. Start a business. Fight beauracracy. Protect your community. Write a book. Spead knowledge. And so on. To join (and contribute) to the most dysfunctional mechanism the world has ever seen is not exactly what I would call patriotic. If you're like a lot of the recruits and are dying to be a tough guy, please drop out and work construction. Concrete work, perhaps, haha. Now that's a rough life. Those guys don't last too long.
On a somewhat related note, I've come to the conclusion that the reason countries fail is that cancerous sub systems embed themselves into overall the system. Eventually, these cancers cannot be excised, because it would cause too much pain to too many people. It's a sort of tipping point. We're way past that point. These systems are not self-sustaining and will necessary collapse under their weight. A more prudent society would have anticipated these problems earlier, but we're just so .. distracted .. aren't we?
+3000
Just as this guy is asking not to be thanked for his service. I will ask currently military personal to refrain from saying they're "defending my freedoms". If you want to defend my freedoms, march on DC and burn it down. Not holding my breath, cause that won't involve a pension and free medical care.
I like your style.....
whats amazing is the slow conditioning of everyone, as I put on the rothchild article, if you join an army that travels 6000km from your house and fight an opposition that has no plane's / no tanks no ships...and you have the best technology avaliable, you kill them at a rate of 4500 to 1 mill (a lot from desases still dead) and then you come back and imply huge risk taking for you and your property, and imply the 1 mill people who died were the agressor.. amm you are a joke following the govt just as what happened in Europe in WW2,
The weakness is no one in US will call you out on it..
Its like whats happening with bonds, the market has become so brainwashed that pension funds/banks are buying large quantaties of bonds at negative rates (losing money for a fixed period of up to 5ys, becuase the pundits have told them. it makes sense. This will end when the govt give up and the debt is allowed to collapse..(rates blow higher)
at which point the people will be blamed for the excess Govt spending and susbsequent debt they demanded.
Think about it people are begging for more Govt spending which is so large its causing above, the people are begging to be debt slaves..pleading.. please borrow more.. please.
you dont understand what its like to be in a war where the enemey died at a rate of 222 to 1 (yes 4500/ to 1mill) or another way over 3 mill US soldiers serveed in Iraq and afghanistan so it was a 1 in 700 chance of an American soldier dieing, compared to (33 mil Iraqis to 1 mill dead) 1 in 33 chance for Iraqi (that is fighters and civilans combined)
sorry that wasnt a balanced war were each side fought hard or where both sides were protecting their borders in dispute, it was a grab for resourses, so be proud you help take their resourses with only a 1 in 700 chance of being killed... Given the war occured over 10 year period (4500 over 10ys average 450 a year) your risk of dieing in a car accient while staying in US was much higher see below ..
sorry low risk...stop petending.. the Iraqs had the risk
http://www.psandman.com/articles/cma-appb.htm#B-1
I served during the 90s. I am deeply ashamed. If you want to fight for freedom you don't fight for the state... you fight against it.
Well fucking said! Guess I lucked out, my mom had to file a restraining order agianst the USMC recruiter in 1991.
More dead, stupid Americans! I mean, it is a volunteer military and like the author alluded to in the essay, Americans aren't much for thinking things through. If some idiot wants to join the military and become cannon fodder for our handlers in DC then good riddance!
Most people who join the military do so out of financial despiration or blind faith. Lack of education burning both ends of that candle. Sorry boys and girls you won't get any thanks from me. Now go risk your life for anonther 70 years of lost causes. The VA needs more war "heroes" to treat like piles of shit when they come home.
If you want to be thanked by a veteran, contribute to the cause of ENDING US military aggression overseas. Vets want to come home but it will take a lot of protests before the horrible politicians do the right thing.
This is really messed up. I'm a Vietnam era vet. Back then, probably 98 out of 100 people were draftees, and we all had something to bitch about because we were conscripted. But - we were all together! There was a lot of comradarie. I guess you could say misery loves company. There was US... and then there was... "the lifers". You always had to be real careful what you did and what you said when "the lifers" were around.
But now, since the military is all volunteer service, these guys don't have anybody to blame but themselves for actually choosing to be in that shit.
I don't any Americans to die for their country .... I wan't every ISIS asshole to die for his fucking Caliphate .... I wouldn't mind if Obama's helicopter crashed into the statue of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton 69ing each other .... oh, wait .... that hasn't been funded yet !
how about i don't thank you and you don't be a pawn of the state that could give a shit if you live or die
I am a veteran. I don't walk around advertising the fact though. You know the type; older man wearing a hat which has either his old unit's patch or ship's name, or what war they participated in. Some take it even further, they plaster their car in bumper stickers and yellow ribbons. "Support the troops!" "Love it or leave it" Etc, you get the idea. Since 9-11, and the wars that followed, the US worships all things military. Many are warmongers and don't even realize it. I also no longer belong to the VFW or American Legion, as they just feed off of all this shit. I am disgusted. Living down here in the open air retirement home known as Florida, their is no shortage of vets, active military and their supporters. Fifteen years ago, you didn't see all of this crap. Sad that men in their 60s, 70s and 80s define themselves in such a way. I am ashamed, yes, I said it, ASHAMED that I served a day. What a waste of youth.
Ever since I got out of the military in the late 60's people have periodically "thanked me". I've never actually done it, but for some strange reason I always wanted to tell them to go fuck themselves.
I, for one, salute you, for having the balls to admit your past folly.
Bravo, Sir.
Do many of your Vet friends question the antagonistic false flags that are instigated by our country? The false Iraq war information that led to war has opened my eyes. I never questioned 911 Now I do.
"...grist for their mills."
"War is a racket." - Smedley D Butler
No thank you required. 5 countries desimated since 2001. Millions of civilians killed. Iran Ukraine, Iraq Afghanastan, Libya. Saudia arabia our best friend. probably did 911. Go figure.
everyone, who enlists in a peace time, is a moron murderer sadist and psychopath.
everyone, who enlists in a peace time, should be closed in a prison. veterans are murders of children and civilians.
You know most people that enlist are minority and women. I don't have the numbers. I see the Army as the Dumbest Service and see how even illegals are targets now for Enlistment.
It used to be there were foreigners that would join the US Army. I even know of a French or Belgian that made General in the US Army. I know w Canadian that Enlisted. South Koreans opt to join the US Army instead of getting beat up by their cohorts in mandatory service. Filipinos used to be common in the Army. I'm thinking we also had South Americans like Panamanians since they had US Based there.
And you know about the School of the Americas at Benning. We train people from all over the Middle East and it is not a new thing at all.
All I can say is it seems like we took on all British Traditions like the Opium War, getting villagers to fight against each other (proxies), and war is often about Trade, Wealth, Economics, Resources.
Which takes us to Free Trade with China. China a country with such unlimited labor force that wages would hardly ever rise if we industrialized there. Wages do rise, but factories are moved or the next ones are made some place else.
So what is war?
- Trade
- Securing Resources and Cheap Labor
- Rare Metals, Mining Materials, Oil, Gas
- Spices, Produce, Crafts, Silk Fabrics, Jade, Ceramics
- Keeping People From developing, Keep people Poor
Maybe Enlistment in Military is a way to keep people poor even in the face of benefits. Using Young kids that don't know history and had no chance at real education... or maybe they drank and used drugs or got into a gang in the old days.
In the USA people still don't know the truth about Vietnam, why would they anticipate the Iraqi Lie, the Genocide, Democide, Homocide???
Veterancide? We killed some Vets.
me thinks Troll...
You're very fortunate to have been born with the gift of discernment apparently. Many must wade through a lifetime of lies and propaganda before they can achieve what just came naturally to you. One hopes you may show some small amount of humility, having been so blessed. Dipshit
In church on Veterans week they have us stand up....
I skip church that week...
Military is just another wing of government and I hate government.
government = people, principles and processes
you hate people, principles and processes?
Government = theft, violence, lies, and coercion.
I am happy EX American Vietnam Veteran renounced last year officially.
When I came back from Vietnam I wanted to spit on the ''silent majority''
When someone says to me 'thank you for your service'' I want to punch their fucking lights out.
The Majority of Americans are clueless knuckledragging RETARDS.
What, did you sign up or get drafted? you dumb fuck.
I signed up in 1964 to avoid the draft. USAF. I was still a naive flagwaving American back then,
Go fuck yourself.
If you're dumb enough to sign on you deserve to get shit on you chickenshit. I have empathy for the poor SOB that got pulled in off the street with no recourse. Lucky you left the States old man, all you're proving is what a hypocrite you are. Usually "Dutch Boy" is something I paint the walls with.
Look here, fuckface, I had just turned 18 and believed the USA was the greatest place on earth. I came from all white town and I was naturalized citizen having immigrated into the USA in 1951.
I learned the truth much later. Actually the USA died starting in November of 1963.
...still Trolling?
Your either a liar, or where too stupid for college. There were MANY ways around getting drafted. All of them legal. Ask George Bush.
more like "fuck you for not dying over there, asshole"
I've never said it, nor ever wanted to. Today, I look at any government employee - especially those in uniform, with an odd sense of respect. A respect borne out of fear as a result of the top-down, command & control type of militarization that has swept the nation's agencies, from the very top to the most lowly counties across the land, and what those people can do to me as a result of the fear and confusion that has been foisted upon the American people as a direct result of a contrived 'war on terror'. All I can say is, the American Idiot has no idea of what is in store for him and he will wonder aloud when it all comes down, how it ever happened - in 'America'...
In March 2003 I was flying for Ghaddaffi govt on VIP contracted DC-8. We had hotel right on the Med in Tripoli. I bought a cheap SAT Dish and stuck it out on my hotel balcony (Tripoli had satellite stores like the USA has burger joints). I watched Fox and CNN push their total bullshit on the American people. I watched them interview some troop on an aircraft carrier and the kid said ''I am fighting for my country''. I wanted to jump thru the TV and grab that little fucker and say ''Is Iraq your country''??
I am Vietnam Vet and used to argue with guys even while at Danang. Many of them called me a commie. Why? I did my research and study of Vietnam BEFORE I went there. WE were WRONG there and the USA was WRONG in every fucking war they have done since then., Amazing how many VETS are now saying how ''great'' they were in Iraq. Vietnam has all been forgotten by most of them,.
Many Vets are so goddam stupid they can't even point to Montana on a map of the USA. But when they invade a country they always act like ''this is our country now''./ Then they wonder why people are trying to kill them. STUPID assholes.
Most of those knuckle draggers also love to say ''America is the greatest nation on earth'' which is total BULLSHIT.
There is an old saying ''If you stay in the shithouse long enough you no longer smell the stench''.
I have been to 73 countries during my 40 years in aviation and lived and worked in 5 of them. paying into their social systems.
The LAST place I would ever want to live now is the USA.
Last time I was there was in 2002, I could literally SMELL the fascism. I imagine its much worse now.
Too bad most Americans are too poor to actually TRAVEL internationally and have their myths dispelled.
The clowns that say ''I was overseas and call other people savages, never were overseas as a CIVILIAN''. They were there with a big First Sergeant baby sitter.
I actually had one employer say he didn't want a veteran to work on his planes. He wanted self starters and independent thinkers.
When I was in the USAF we had 10-20 people maintaining one aircraft (KC-135).
Then I got out into the real world and one employer hired me to take care of his VIP DC-8 by myself. I could hire people to assist for big jobs like engine changes but most of the work I did myself.
Another big pile of crap some veterans like to say to us here in Europe. ''We are protecting you''
Little do they know that its a protection racket. There is NO BOGEYMAN here and never was . The entire cold war was total bullshit.
Russia was NEVER a threat. This is the Big LIe they keep pushing on people to this very day.
It is a bit late to come after the event. Much better to stand up, before you do the damage to others and yourself. The idiots who want war, let them do their own fighting. If Obama and his ilk were to walk in front, weapon in hand, do you think we would have more than self defence?
Neither do I.
Politicians are always quick to send others to do their dirty work. Refuse exploitation. Don't do it. Simples.
Unfortunately most young guys are subtly and not so sublty brainwashed by movies like ''American Sniper' and the other bullshit the media feeds them.
Watch FOXCNNABCCBSNBC. Total bullshit liars by commission but most importantly by Ommission.
Just ask any one on the street and they will tell you ''Russia invaded Ukraine'' or 19 Arabs did 911.
OK DONT THANK these vets, thank the many many others who do appreciate the thanks. Simple. As of today vets volunteer to lay their lives down, they are not mindless robots. Thank them, they believe in what they are doing.