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How Far Is It From Kiev To Athens?
Submitted by Raul Ilargi Meijer via The Automatic Earth blog,
Riddle me this, Batman. I don’t think I get it, and I definitely don’t get why nobody is asking any questions. The IMF and EU make a lot of noise – through the Eurogroup – about all the conditions Greece has to address to get even a mild extension of support, while the same IMF and EU keep on handing out cash to Ukraine without as much as a whisper – at least publicly.
The Kiev government, which has been ceaselessly and ruthlessly attacking its own people, is now portrayed as needing – monetary and military – western help in order to be able to ‘defend’ itself. From the people it’s been attacking, presumably. And hardly a soul in the west asks what that is all about.
Why did Kiev kill 5000 of its own citizens? Because there are people in East Ukraine who had – and still have – the guts to say they don’t want to be ruled by a regime willing to murder them for saying they don’t want to be ruled by it. And just in case there’s any confusion left about this, yes, that is the regime we are actively supporting, in undoubtedly many more ways than are made public. All the doubts about the western narrative are swept aside with one move: blame Putin.
Of the two countries, Greece, despite its humanitarian issues, is by far the luckiest one. Ukraine is quite a few steps further down the hill. One can be forgiven for contemplating that the west, aided by President Poroshenko and the Yats regime in Kiev, is dead set on obliterating the entire nation.
There are again peace talks under way, with no – direct – Anglo-Saxon involvement, but as the Foreign Ministers of Russia, Ukraine, France and Germany meet, Britain announces it’s sending military personnel into Ukraine and Poroshenko buys weapons from UAE, which is the same as saying from America. Where does he get the money? Chocolate sales? Had a good Valentine’s campaign?
Baltic states reinforce their armies (Lithuania just launched conscription), as NATO expands its presence there. The constantly repeated message is that Putin will attack them. It’s a made-up story. Poroshenko says he wants Crimea back, even as he knows full well that’s not going to happen.
What part of the fresh round of IMF/EU loans will go towards arms purchases? Can Brussels please supply a run-down ASAP? Don’t Europeans have a right to know where their money goes?
To start with, here’s a – partial – overview of loans from Constantin Gurdgiev:
IMF Package for Ukraine: Some Pesky Macros
Ukraine package of funding from the IMF and other lenders remains still largely unspecified, but it is worth recapping what we do know and what we don’t.Total package is USD40 billion. Of which, USD17.5 billion will come from the IMF and USD22.5 billion will come from the EU. The US seemed to have avoided being drawn into the financial singularity they helped (directly or not) to create. We have no idea as to the distribution of the USD22.5 billion across the individual EU states, but it is pretty safe to assume that countries like Greece won’t be too keen contributing.
Cyprus probably as well. Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy – all struggling with debts of their own also need this new ‘commitment’ like a hole in the head. Belgium might cheerfully pony up (with distinctly Belgian cheer that is genuinely overwhelming to those in Belgium). But what about the countries like the Baltics and those of the Southern EU? Does Bulgaria have spare hundreds of million floating around? Hungary clearly can’t expect much of good will from Kiev, given its tango with Moscow, so it is not exactly likely to cheer on the funding plans… Who will?
Austria and Germany and France, though France is never too keen on parting with cash, unless it gets more cash in return through some other doors. In Poland, farmers are protesting about EUR100 million that the country lent to Ukraine. Wait till they get the bill for their share of the USD22.5 billion coming due.
Recall that in April 2014, IMF has already provided USD17 billion to Ukraine and has paid up USD4.5 billion to-date. In addition, Ukraine received USD2 billion in credit guarantees (not even funds) from the US, EUR1.8 billion in funding from the EU and another EUR1.6 billion in pre-April loans from the same source. Germany sent bilateral EUR500 million and Poland sent EUR100 million, with Japan lending USD300 million.
Here’s a kicker. With all this ‘help’ Ukrainian debt/GDP ratio is racing beyond sustainability bounds. Under pre-February ‘deal’ scenario, IMF expected Ukrainian debt to peak at USD109 billion in 2017. Now, with the new ‘deal’ we are looking at debt (assuming no write down in a major restructuring) reaching for USD149 billion through 2018 and continuing to head North from there.
In other words, the loans are only and exclusively making Ukraine’s position worse. The Greeks may feel like debt slaves, but Ukrainians face a far darker feudal situation. They’re going to be -debt -prisoners in their own country. And that has nothing to do with Putin, it’s the ultimate shock doctrine. The distinct impression to me is the country will be turned into a testing ground for NATO and western military industries. Which is why ‘we’ have been so intent on engaging Russia in the Ukraine conflict.
But back to the loans first:
The point is that the situation in the Ukrainian economy is so grave, that lending Kiev money cannot be an answer to the problems of stabilising the economy and getting economic recovery on a sustainable footing. With all of this, the IMF ‘plan’ begs three questions:
- Least important: Where’s the European money coming from?
- More important: Why would anyone lend funds to a country with fundamentals that make Greece look like Norway?
- Most important: How on earth can this be a sustainable package for the country that really needs at least 50% of the total funding in the form of grants, not loans? That needs real investment, not debt? That needs serious reconstruction and such deep reforms, it should reasonably be given a decade to put them in place, not 4 years that IMF is prepared to hold off on repayment of debts owed to it under the new programme?
Why indeed? One thing seems certain: reconstruction is not in the cards. All assets will be sold for scrap, and most citizens ‘encouraged’ to cross one of many borders Ukraine has. Britain is next up in the escalation process. Again, as German/French talks with Russia continue.
Britain To Send Military Advisers To Ukraine, Announces Cameron
Britain was pulled closer towards a renewed cold war with Russia when David Cameron announced UK military trainers are to be deployed to help Ukraine forces stave off further Russian backed incursions into sovereign Ukraine territory. The decision – announced on Tuesday but under consideration by the UK national security council since before Christmas – represents the first deployment of British troops to the country since the near civil war in eastern Ukraine began more than a year ago. Downing Street said the deployment was not just a practical bilateral response to a request for support, but a signal to the Russians that Britain will not countenance further large scale annexations of towns in Ukraine.
The prime minister said Britain would be “the strongest pole in the tent”, and argued for tougher sanctions against Moscow if Russian-backed militias in eastern Ukraine failed to observe the provisions of a ceasefire agreement reached this month with the Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko. Downing Street said some personnel would be leaving this week as part of the training mission. Initially 30 trainers will be despatched to Kiev with 25 providing advice on medical training, logistics, intelligence analysis and infantry training. A bigger programme of infantry training is expected to follow soon after taking the total number of trainers to 75.
That’s simply war-mongering, and precious little else. We may wonder about the timing, but not the intention. Cameron goes on to make some really bizarre statements:
He said there was no doubt about Russian support for the rebels. “What we are seeing is Russian-backed aggression, often these are Russian troops, they are Russian tanks, they are Russian Grad missiles. You can’t buy these things on eBay, they are coming from Russia, people shouldn’t be in any doubt about that. “We have got the intelligence, we have got the pictures and the world knows that. Sometimes people don’t want to see that but that is the fact.”
No, Mr. Cameron, the problem is, the world does not know that, because it has never been shown either the intelligence or the pictures. Why not provide them? Because you don’t have them, is the only reason I can think of after a full year full of alleged activity of which there is not one shred of proof, but a million tons of accusations and innuendo. It’s literally a propaganda war, with the other side hardly firing back at all. And then there’s this from RT:
East Ukraine Artillery Withdrawal In Focus – As Poroshenko Buys UAE Weapons
While the foreign ministers of France, Germany, Russia and Ukraine were meeting in Paris to talk about the Eastern Ukraine peace settlement, it was revealed that the Ukrainian president has struck a deal on arms supplies from the UAE. The four ministers agreed on the need for the ceasefire to be respected, as well as on the need to extend the OSCE mission in Eastern Ukraine, reinforcing it with more funding, personnel and equipment. It’s important for Kiev troops and the rebels to start withdrawing heavy weapons right now, without waiting for the time “when not a single shot is fired,” Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said after the meeting.
He added that his German and French counterparts thought it a positive development that the Donetsk and the Lugansk rebels had started to pull their artillery back. “The situation has significantly improved, that was acknowledged by my partners,” Lavrov said. “However, sporadic violations are being registered by the OSCE observers.” The withdrawal of heavy weaponry by Kiev troops and the rebels is part of the ceasefire deal struck in Minsk earlier in February. The Donetsk militia has announced it is complying.
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has meanwhile reached an agreement on weapons supplies from the United Arab Emirates. That’s according to a Facebook post by advisor to Ukrainian Interior Minister, Anton Gerashchenko. The deal was struck with the Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi and deputy supreme commander of the UAE Armed Forces, Mohammed bin Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan. “It’s worth emphasizing that unlike Europeans and Americans, the Arabs aren’t afraid of Putin’s threats of a third world war starting in case of arms and ammunition supplies to Ukraine,” Gerashchenko wrote. He also said he believed the UAE blamed Russia for the drop in oil prices. “So, this is going to be their little revenge,” the adviser said.
Curious. Now it’s the Russians who are to blame for the oil price plunge? Weren’t they supposed to be the major victims? And when did Putin threaten with WWIII? There’s more to this:
[..].. former US diplomat James Jatras told RT: “This discussion in Washington about supplying weapons has been going on for some time. Usually that indicates that some kind of a covert program is already in operation and that we already are supplying some weapons directly,” he said. Jatras added that it is hard to believe that UAE would sell these weapons to Ukraine “without a green light from Washington.”
I would think the same thing: plenty forces in Washington who want nothing more than to supply weapons to Kiev, and there’s always a way. Note that Germany and France, the western partners in the peace talks, have so far managed to prevent direct arms supplies. They’ve now been blindsided, or so it would seem. Maybe it’s time for Merkel to pull her weight here, and a bit less on Greece. Germany doesn’t want an escalating warzone on its doorstep.
Meanwhile, the gas delivery issue is heating up again (pun intended). Ukraine continues to provoke Russia, but it will have to pay eventually. Unless escalation is the real goal, and freezing Eastern Europeans will be deemed a justifiable sacrifice.
Kiev Cash-For-Gas Fail Could Cost EU Its Supply (In 2 Days) – Gazprom
Russia will completely cut Ukraine off gas supplies in two days if Kiev fails to pay for deliveries, which will create transit risks for Europe, Gazprom has said. Ukraine has not paid for March deliveries and is extracting all it can from the current paid supply, seriously risking an early termination of the advance settlement and a supply cutoff, Gazprom’s CEO Alexey Miller told journalists. The prepaid gas volumes now stand at 219 million cubic meters. “It takes about two days to get payment from Naftogaz deposited to a Gazprom account. That’s why a delivery to Ukraine of 114 million cubic meters will lead to a complete termination of Russian gas supplies as early as in two days, which creates serious risks for the transit to Europe,” Miller said.
Earlier this month, Russian Energy Minister Aleksandr Novak estimated Ukraine’s debt to Russian energy giant Gazprom at $2.3 billion. In the end of 2014, Kiev’s massive gas debt that stood above $5 billion, forced Moscow to suspend gas deliveries to Ukraine for nearly six months. On December 9, Russia resumed its supplies under the so-called winter package deal, which expires on April 1, 2015. [..] On Monday, Ukrainian state energy company Naftogaz accused Gazprom of failing to deliver gas that Kiev had paid for in advance. Naftogaz says Russia has broken an agreement to deliver 114 million of cubic meters of natural gas to Ukraine by delivering only 47 million cubic meters.
During a meeting with President Vladimir Putin on February 20, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev expressed concern about an increase in daily applications by Ukraine for the supply of gas, TASS reports. He noted that “Ukraine’s consumers have requested a larger supply; the volume has increased by 2.5 times. This means that the prepaid volumes left are enough for no more than two to three days.”
Overall, there seems to be little left that can be done to de-escalate the situation. The Donbass rebels may retreat some heavy weapons, but they won’t want to risk being defeated by a freshly replenished Ukraine/US/UK army. The make-up of which is ever harder to envision, since a few hundred thousand potential soldiers have already fled the country. Unless they extend the draft to 12- to 80-year-old women, what Ukrainians will be left to fight? And who will want to? Except for the private battallions of questionable make-up, that is.
Ukraine will at some point in the not too distant future be so impoverished that a new Maidan type revolution may be inevitable. There should really be elections in the country as soon as possible, but that doesn’t look likely to happen. Why Yatsenyuk is still PM should be a mystery, he was elected by a parliament at gunpoint. And he’s a US puppet, who’s recently invited three US citizens into key positions in his cabinet. Ukrainians may be scared to speak up, but if they don’t, things could get much worse real fast.
It’s once again time for the people to take to the streets. But that risks turning into an awful bloodbath that could make Kiev look like the Dresden. Unless all international parties retreat from Ukraine, there doesn’t seem to be a solution that would benefit the people.
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Good comparison, Tyler.
Greece is ordered to jump through the hoops to justify it's receipt of handouts, while Kiev only has to ask so that it may receive it's handout.
Different rules apply in the Eurogroup court of mendacity.
Put more simply the EU, ECB and IMF already have Greece by the balls. They are presently trying to secure Ukraine (more firmly) by the balls.
Here kitty kitty, want some fiat?
Exactly, the Draachma and Greek sovereignty died a long time ago.
The distance from Kiev to Athens?
777 miles according to Christine Lagarde
the east vs west paridym lives on.
That's because Greece does not have azov nazis.
I think it is safe to say that the most precise and reliable answer will be provided by our geopolitical geniuses at CNN.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/video-cnn-use-graphic-showing-23...
What an "Effed" up world we live in. At some point the peasants will rise up and the outcome will be anything but known.
looking like a dream. the sword is presently with the bankers. the hope lies with russia for ukraine which unleashes bigger swords. this is fucked up beyond any rational persons possible rationality. out of words...
The same message is pretty unanimous amongst UK media forums to the point that messages clearly portray Cameron as being a madman for sending troops!
Rumour has it that the Greeks led by their new leaders are using Olive Oil on their balls so the EU, ECB and IMF cannot grasp their balls.
And further they have ample resrves of olive oil if need to pry open/ sorry bugger them should they choose to visit Greece to collect their debt
The west wants Ukraine as a bulwark against Russia moving west economically. Russia economic ties to Europe is a threat to western wealth. So just as the west funded Hitler, west funds Ukraine.
Greece ? They are just in the wrong location.
EDIT: crucial to understanding Ukraine it is crucial to understand who funded the German recovery after WW1 and who supported Hitler in the press. And why ?
How far is it from DC to Tel Aviv?
I just heard some bitch on Fux News call Ukraine Russia's new Afganistan.
The FUX news bitch is wrong. Ukraine is the west's new Afghanistan. Russia is not bogged down in Donbass, they are not even engaged there. It is the west that pays every penny for Kiev's Junta to exist. The rebels just captured enough Kiev material to fully equip two armored brigades plus full artillery support, and logistics. Thats a force free of charge to Donetsk thanks to Debaltsvo cauldron. In many cases, rebels arms come right from Kiev's useless army. They run and leave all the goodies for the pickings. Over 80 Main Battle Tanks were tanken in just a week at Debaltsvo.
And the nice modern US counter mortar radar unit waiting to be reverse engineered in Ukraine's electronic warfare factory - which just happens to be in east Ukraine. Oooops!
No. You're saying that the west is doing this (Ukraine) for defensive purposes. This is 100% offensive, in both meanings of the word.
Yes, it is two variations of the same game. The big difference is that the game is at different stages when comparing the two countries.
Compare Greek women vs Ukrainian women and the reason is quite obvious.
Its monetary policy in the defense of democracy...or at least their version of democracy (the right people in charge). When will we we stop questioning the wisdom of our enlightened leaders. To do so does irreparable harm and will likely be punished by imprisonment.
The last time I looked, Greece isn't involved in a civil war supported by one of its neighbors nor has it lost any valuable territory lately. It's just a small detail but that might have a bearing.
So you mean countries that are torn apart by civil wars, hyperinflation and have imposed full-blown capital controls are a 'no brainer' when it comes to financing?
Suddenly I'm beginning to doubt the "rich" part of your moniker...
Too deep for you huh? No, the funds are being provided to Ukraine without considering any of those concerns because of the extinuating circumstances. Greece isn't in a civil war. Try to keep up here OK?
Please read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman"
Greece has reached the IMF capitulation point. They are being stripped of all assets, resources and land by the mercantile class. The reason Greeks are not paying taxes is that they know they are being robbed but more importantly have no economy in which to pay said Troika Tribute.
Some people in Ukraine objected to the IMF / NATO / USSA Fascist takeover and therefore the Western Kraken was released.
That is a good read. But the problem a lot of people have with the Greeks is they have a long, long history of poor management of damn near anything they have touched. Not paying taxes sounds right when the situation is hopeless but their poor tax collection is a major reason they are in this situation in the first place. If nobody pays their bills or their taxes but they still ask for too much social assistance, etc. a system is doomed to failure. The Greeks might not be blameless for their problems but the Germans have been absolutely stupid to loan them too much money in spite of everybody always trying to make the Germans feel guilty about anything and everything.
So, lemme see here: do Syria and Libya also have similar programs with the IMF?
Too deep for me you say? How 'bout the other way around - your skull is too damn thick to grasp the fact that IMF is a prolonged arm of the USSA and those credit lines approved to Kiev are only because of USSA's (as a zio-nazi vassal state) interests and desires to destroy Russia in every possible way...
Sorry, Vladimir, I didn't mean to piss you off.
Tell that to your handlers, troll.
What I get from the story is that Greece can get all the money they want as long as they attack Russia
That is not how the banking system works. You loan the money first and ask if they can afford to pay it back later. But not until the debtor is so far it debt it will ruin the lender as well as the debtor. That is how it was done in the US in real estate, car loans, student loans. Governments have been borrowing on this basis for centuries.
And when you find out they can't pay you arrange a bailout for the banks and that solves the problem, for anywhere from 2 years to 4 months.
Looking forward to Right Sector turning on the current government. I imagine the next coup will be must faster, and potentially much more bloody.
You have combat hardened troops returning to Kiev for a weekend to "fix things" and put in their own government.
Right. But they won't have western "NGO's" against them "reporting" on excessive police brutality - as long as they remain pro-Western. Since February 2014 Maidan "protesters" have transsubstantiated into terrorists.
Greece needs to pull the curtiains on their sovereignty.
If your people's can't produce, work or get out of bed and contribuite to society - and have to consistenly borrow for their existance - then you're being sold past your sell by date.
Hey, we can't go down that road or we will all end up on the street. Productivity is an old fashioned notion. Today entitlement is far more important.
I WANT MINE
So ukraine is the direct replacement for greek consetion? Why didnt they blow up the ukrainian currency along time ago then!?!
What are you talking about? The drachma (and Greek sovereignty) was destroyed long ago. As you point out, the E.U. statists have finally gotten around to dealing with Ukraine. In this case the people here actually have some balls motherfucker, Greece was conquered long ago.
Im talking about the hryvnia not the drachma. Ukraine will be forced into euros for sure now
Well, the western half of Ukraine perhaps.
Or any part of ukraine that doesnt do commerce with hryvnia's by the wheelbarrow. It isnt any coincidence that the ukrainian currency has blown up. Its check. Russias move. Question is will the ruble take its place? Btw i didnt -1 u.
Edit
Thats why eu is lending without question to ukraine. They will demand repayment, only the hryvnia will be to unstable for repayment. Eu will insist on repayment in euros.
The EU / USSA have already lost Eastern Ukraine. The Western Ukrainian forces have been driven out of Eastern Ukraine. If Kiev was winning then why ask for a ceasfire and beg for more weapons.
Fascist Kiev land will use the Euro and join Greece in the great privitisation (theft) of assets and Eastern Ukraine will adopt the Ruble and rejoin Mother Russia.
>>>Fascist Kiev land will use the Euro and join Greece in the great privitisation (theft) of assets and Eastern Ukraine will adopt the Ruble and rejoin Mother Russia.
All the fighting, political and financial maneuvering, foeriegn interventio etc. is the process of sorting out just where the new borders will be. The chance of Galicia and Donbass both remaining in a federalized Ukraine are very slim; the chance that they will both remain within a non-federal Ukraine is below zero. Everyone knows this fact, but the final settlement will take years, perhaps many yeras.
<< a hummer from Yellen, or
<< do Lagarde in the five hole.
She's only got 3, does that mean I can double tap two more?
you can go cut a hole in a navel orange & practice on that. Just don't get any juice in your eye.
Those Dutch fellers still haven't released the evidence to show wh/what shot down MH17.
Shht. The Dutch prime minister Rutten mentioned that they cannot reveal details on MH 17 investigation because of matters of state security.
"state security" Yeah, don't piss off the US. Who has to know, by the way, that those transcripts are damning, which is why they have been locked up.
Hm, I didn't know UAE is a military equipment producer.. Looks more like UAE plays a proxy for USA.
The UAE is near the top of a list of the world's biggest weapons importers and is set to continue increasing its hi-tech defensive capabilities, according to a new report on international arms transfers. The United States is by far the biggest supplier of arms to the UAE, the third-largest US weapons client. The UAE is also France's biggest arms export destination. The majority of the UAE's spending is on aircraft from the US and France, followed by missiles and air defence systems. Also, the United Arab Emirates had signed contracts to buy military equipment worth $35bn-$40bn. The UAE has received clearance to buy Thaad, a high altitude missile defence system being developed by Lockheed Martin.
Wouldn’t it be funny if the Ukraine arranged a temporary secret bailout for Greece with some spare cash they got from the IMF……….at least until we found out that Goldman helped them arrange it for a fee.
Ukraine: "Kiev to Golden Dawn: do you read me?"
Greek Nazis: "Check".
Ukraine: "We had your bailout, but it disappeared with the gold, nat gas from Russia and the grains from China. I wonder if Jaresko and Yatseniuk know where it all went to. Damm who stole my cleaning supplies again!?!!!"
The (B)lagarde in the IMF is out for your blood Raul.
She doesnt like a spade being called a spade
And of course you have Victoria Fcuk All , who has been lording it over Ukraine who will then bury your bloodless body.
These are questions that should of course be put by all IMF members to the IMF board. But then who is in whose pocket is the million dollar question!
No, Mr. Cameron, the problem is, the world does not know that, because it has never been shown either the intelligence or the pictures.
Even this information is deceptive IRAQ War intelligence???? Seems like pictures and video is all it takes today. Much of it altered. Think Senator Inholfe got some of those dated Russian pictures. Lucky some astute news site clued him in.
Thus the need for government control of the internet. Allows for easier propaganda and more time for porn.
The IMF has never been over to the US Treasury to rein in US spending; it has not warned about US profligacy; it is a tool of US Policy. Lagarde is a labour lawyer from Baker & McKenzie. She is a US asset and biddable
"She is a US asset and biddable whore"
FIFY
she looks like she has a mustache... i don't care if she wears leather or not, who wants to french kiss grandpa?
Will Obunghole hold a "Mission Accomplished" press conference now?
Lots of reasons:
Ukraine handed over her gold
Ukraine is ideal to irritate the heck out of Putin and provoke WW3
The son of McCain is cronying in Ukraine
"some states are more equal than others"
etc
The fiat money scenario demands WARS, but Greece cannot easily provide one. Ukraine, on the other hand.........
Looks like the Rothschilds (ZWO) just get richer and richer financing BOTH sides of WWIII if they can just get Putin to 'start' it................
It's their time tested and proven way of making big bucks
and simultaneously reducing social burdens and potential dissent
IMF has already broken its mandate on not funding any nation in WAR!
Ukrainian financial system is in complete meltdown. Currency has fallen to 30 against the dollar (from 8 a year ago).
Ukraine will need a new currency.
1) Supporting a sovereign nation against foreign aggression.
vs
2) Subsidizing leisure time or country that has produced little since the end of antiquity.
Tough choice.
You left out choice 3.
you are right
3) Financial and military aid to a sovereign nation defending against foreign agression
peggleball: 3) Financial and military aid to a sovereign nation defending against foreign agression
Yea, 'cause Crimea has only been part of Russia since Catherine the Great.
So you are saying that america is an aggressor who funded an overthrow of an elected government and Russia is right to support those fighting this overthrow?
peggleball:1) Supporting a sovereign nation against foreign aggression.
That's some funny shit there. We ousted a democratically elected government, did you miss that part?
hilarious what an amazing power USA posess. Just open the mouth and governments fall. I wonder why it only worked in Ukraine though.
If you stop denying the existence of free will in Ukraine pieces might fall into place.
In ukraine there is still hope for democracy. In crimea an east ukraine it is essentially dead for all forseable future. like germans voting in their favorite dictator
....actually 5 Billion and counting (but who's counting, right)?
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37599.htm
I think the author is being nieve here...
Independently of the Ukrain situation I think he is forgething that Greece has already received billions upon billions of finantial help and the situation there has not improoved a bit
Not to mention the finantial help given by the EU since greece joined it in 1986 ...
TOTALY DIFFERENT SCENSARIOS
Also Ukraine is not a member of the EU
Greece was only in a hole because of that Turkey Cyprus oil dilemma. Goldie Sachs was taking moolah from them on interest rates when they defaulted.
GS could've set it up. GS apparently isn't the most competant group ever which is why they like melodrama so much- I wouldn't be suprised if GS paid Turkey to start conflict. Since GS is the one who fudged up the numbers to get Greece into the Eurozone. Because they want to keep Balkan countries away from Russia (because Russia exports oil and increasing supply of oil would make gas affordable and big oil can't like, you know hoard people for petrodollars which is failed illiquid bank liquidity).
Ukraine on the other hand.... Ukei NAZIs got moolah from the US Citizens (without our consent or approval).
Ukies stole nat gas from Russia. AFTER they sold weapons (and are now begging for more). Ukies stiffed China on their grains that China already paid for.
Racist psycho Ukies had corruption since at least the 90's. The Greeks are not racist or psychos- you need to be really seedy to stoop to the level of Golden Dawn or whatever they're calling the Nazi party in Greece anymore.
Greece technically didn't rob anyone, the other European countries are tired of this mess for good reason. Trouble is the complacency within the collective. Some know very well and want something done, the majority like the US prefer to be complacent sheep - then play stupid politics when fit hits the shan. Problem won't be fixed until people actually address the problem so that they can deal with it.
The war must go on, lest the EU implode. It iis already decided, everything happening now is just formality for sake of posterity.
Bring me the heads of light ( kabuki theatre ) entertainment.
Perfidious Albion! In the last century Britain (& International Jewry) fomented war with Germany. At the beginning of this century. it's Russia's turn - why ? Because Russia was unable to glorify Marxist communism.
Great story Tyler!!
Big mystery is why both Repuplican and Democrat party in US is getting more aggressive in foriegn policy platforms according to statements from all candidates except Rand Paul. Could Rand Paul emerge as dark horse willing to confront established political system groveling for campaign financing ? Question is will average voter, who is disgusted with past and current wars see through the hype or is the average Joe and Jane in a perpetual state of dum dum. Obama who was victorious as an anti- war choice has proven to be weak and malleable , much like the new For Min. of Greece---at least for now
Rand Paul is not Ron Paul. Rand Paul is essentially a neo-con, and that's without the overwhelming neo-con pressures he would feel as president.
If things get bad enough, Rand Paul may indeed become a dark-horse possibility. But he will likely act just as opposite from his campaign promises and implications as Obama has.
The fantasy that ANY kind of political solution is possible is... absurdly naive at this point in history.
The only solutions that remain are: extermination of the human race, or worldwide armed revolution of people vs predators-that-be (fictional "governments" and mega-"corporations").
By Joost Niemöller
In the video below you can see a long column of military vehicles, including tanks and armored cars. This column, according to the caption, was filmed on 23 February in the border city of Narva, Estonia, The city is located on a reservoir that provides St. Petersburg [electric] power.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-nato-military-convoys-of-tanks-and-armor...
Greece is just a tired old whore the Banksters are tired of focking. Ukraine is new pussy. New pussy gets the flowers and dinners.
You do get it, next step just admit it.
Lagarde, Yellin, Killery...why are these "women" so freakin ugly? If women are going to ruin our lives can they at least be hawt to look at?
Oh happy day when Bibi comes! Nutteryahoo will instruct America, through congress, what needs to be done!
911.6 miles.
If Mark Twain, and others, can use the innocuous term "negro" for our black American folk and ", faggots. queers" are descriptions for homosexuals in 20th century literature. why obey language police and bow down to political correctness?
I can see Kiev from my back yard .......Oh wait that's the Kiev Diner
Kiev is supporting the IMF, Athens is not.
As soon as Athens realizes that the purpose of the IMF is to fund and stir up wars all over the world the sooner they will enjoy better treatment.
Ukraine just limited access to foreign currency. Sucks to be a Ukrainian who held value in foreign reserves to hedge during the conflict.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraines-central-bank-bans-foreign-currency-...
Soon there will be nothing left for the bank affiliated finance authorities in Ukraine to embezzle.
Kiev is run now by the ZioNazi Jews Pornoshenko and Yats the Rat.
Kiev has been HQ to the illegal sex worker trade AND the illegal human organ harvesting business.
Pornoshenko I found out also owns a chain of funeral parlours.
Coincidence?????
So, does this mean that, if Greek tax thieves lined up a dozen tax deadbeats and blew their brains out, the EU would deliver boatloads of cash to those tax thieves?
The 2010 "bailout" of Greece was actually a bailout of the French, German, and Italian banks which had lent to Greece and its banks so recklessly after Greece joined the Euro. In 2010 it became clear that the lending banks would fail if they had to write down to market value the Greek bonds they were holding. The IMF/ECB/EC Troika knew full well that the bonds they bought from the lending banks were essentially worthless, but the "bailout" saved the EU financial system from collapse. Austerity was imposed on Greece and other PIIGS nations per IMF rules, to prioritize debt payments over all other government expenditures.
Fast forward to 2015. Austerity has been a disaster for the PIIGS. Their economies are in depression and unemployment is high. The Greeks elect an anti-austerity government that seeks to write down the debts and loosen the austerity rules. The Troika and Germany refuse. The game in 2015 is not to enforce repayment of the debts (the Troika know full well Greece can never pay, nor can Spain, Portugal, Italy or Ireland). The 2015 aim of the Troika and Germany is to MAINTAIN THE ILLUSION that all is well in the EU finance house of cards. The game is now EXTEND AND PRETEND - extend the due dates on debts by rolling them over, continue a drip feed of new loans to keep the Greek government and banks afloat and to enable some interest payments to be made, and pretend that all is well and there will be no default. CONTAINMENT and CONFIDENCE are key.
As for Ukraine, the neo-cons in the State Department, the European Commission, Soros, various oligarchs, and their crony NGOs saw it as a great move to take over Ukraine, move in NATO, kick Russia out of Crimea, exploit Ukraine and Black Sea areas by fracking, shut Russia out of Ukraine, stop exports of military goods to Russia, drive a wedge between Russia and the EU, take over Ukraine's rich farmland, take control of the pipelines carrying natural gas from Russia to the EU, and use Ukraine as a source of export sales and cheap labor. Then Putin spoiled the party by engineering the move of Crimea into Russia. Frustrated, the US/EU/NATO cabal went on a propaganda war and renewed the Cold War.
The new puppet government in Ukraine immediately passed a law outlawing the use of the Russian language in education and government, which was obviously directed against the Russian-speaking east Ukrainians, who happened to be the power base for the ousted Prime Minister Yanukovich. The people of Crimea, Lugansk, and Donetsk all voted to leave Ukraine and join Russia. Crimea is essential territory for Russia, but the other areas are not, and represent a financial liabilty, so Russia took only Crimea. Kiev declared the east Ukrainian separatists to be "Pro-Russian Terrorists" and declared war on them. Kiev and the cabal have been doing everything they can, including shooting down Malaysian Air MH17 and blaming Russia for it, to provoke Russia into overt military intervention in east Ukraine, and to justify full-on war with Russia.
Ukraine is now a financial tar-baby to the US/EU/NATO cabal. The new puppet government of corrupt oligarchs thought they would be showered with cash, but were fobbed off on the IMF instead. The IMF has been loaning money to Ukraine ever since the 1990s, demanding austerity, but austerity is not acceptable to the Ukrainian people. The oligarchs plundered the Ukraine economy, while about the only thing the people got was subsidies on food, gasoline, and home heating fuel. Ukraine had also been surviving on loans from Russia and subsidized oil and gas from Russia that kept Ukraine's antiquated and energy-inefficient factories afloat.
Of the first $3 Billion advanced by the IMF in 2014, fully 90% is reported to have been stolen and sent to Swiss bank accounts. The IMF has been very reluctant to advance more since then, but is under US pressure to keep Kiev afloat. Much of Ukraine's gold was flown out of the country after the 2014 coup, and the remaining gold reserves are said to have been stolen (what a surprise!).
The Kiev forces have had their asses handed to them by the forces fighting for Donetsk and Lugansk. Kiev keeps saying Russia has invaded, but the OSCE observers say there is no evidence of Russian invasion. Twice, Russia has brokered ceasefires, Minsk 1 and Minsk 2, but Kiev and the cabal do not want a ceasefire, they want Moar War.
Meanwhile, Ukraine's GDP has been in free-fall, and much of its population has fled to avoid the battle zones or, more recently, to avoid the military draft. Kiev is out of money. The only thing that will keep Kiev fighting is more money and more weapons. Obviously, Kiev has no money to pay the UAE for more weapons, so the cabal must be behind the sale. David Cameron now continues his act as Buffoon of the Month by saying the UK will send military trainers. There have been reports of UK special forces in Ukraine (along with CIA and Blackwater/Academi mercenaries fighting for Kiev) for some time already. The cabal is getting desperate.
The separatists reap a rich pile of military equipment each time they defeat Kiev's army, and got a huge assortment from Debaltseve recently. Ironically, aseparatist leader said the separatists are buying large amounts of military equipment and supplies from the corrupt oligarchs in Kiev. A recent report from the UK says that military vehicles donated by the UK to Kiev appeared almost immediately for sale on a Kiev website. It sure is hard to train corrupt oligarchs in loyalty, honesty, and public relations.
In summary:
1.Money going to Kiev is to maintain the geopolitical ambitions of the US/EU/NATO cabal;
2. Money going to Greece is to maintain the illusion that the EU is on good financial shape, to continue Extend and Pretend which is so essential to maintain confidence in the Euro and the EU economies and banking system;
3. The fates of the Ukrainian and Greek populations are hardly relevant;
4. The EU might get some rich farmland, cheap labor, and export markets in Ukraine; and
5. The EU may get some farmland, infrastructure, and holiday properties from Greece.
Very comprehensive opinion..I like it!
let me add to it in regards to the original...lending was not reckless, it was just a short visioned con job where the Germans (mainly) lend money (more then the should) to the corrupted Greek political elite of the time in exchange for that same money to be spend back at German corporations. All Greek infrastructure of the past 40 years has been build by German companies, the majority of Greek defense was purchased via Berlin, all our Telcos belong to them. It will only take you few minutes to research some indicative cases such the SIEMENS SCANDAL and the SUBMARINES CONTRACT SCANDAL to see where all the money has gone. At the time it was a win-win scenario for the Germans...times have changed though.
Dont get me wrong, I'm not blaming the Germans or anyone but our selves.
The only thing I'm saying (and voted SYRIZA for) is this....put them in jail.
If I go to a bank and ask for a loan,the bank will look in to 3 things about me..Credibility, Serviceability and Guaranty. If the bank (or its manager) decides to overlook any or all of these 3 at the time and provide me with the loan without having done properly its due diligent, when the time comes that I can't pay, the bank will lose in Court. I believe that the Americans have judicial precedents in regards to this.
The famous "who does Greece owes money" graph circulated in the media reads.."Eurozone 80%"...its actually "Germans 70%, rest of Eurozone 10%"...so my dear friends...Merkel will keep Greece (try) in the EU because if Greece farts...Germany will get diarrhea and die!