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Steve Jobs Held Billions Of Dollars Offshore. Was He "Unpatriotic"?
Submitted by Simon Black via Sovereign Man blog,
At the end of September 2011, just days before his passing, the company that Steve Jobs founded had a $25 billion cash hoard. Nearly half of this was stashed overseas.
What’s more, Apple was running billions in profit through multiple Irish subsidiaries, neither of which were taxable by the US government.
Steve Jobs departed this life owning 5.5 million shares of Apple (and another 138 million shares of Disney, which employed similar offshore practices).
So his personal share of the untaxed offshore booty was obviously substantial.
Did this make him ‘unpatriotic’?
Was the guy who revolutionized five industries and touched the lives of billions of people some nefarious traitor because he held so much money offshore?
Of course not.
Despite all the absurd, highly negative media attention centered on shaming companies and individuals who go offshore, it’s one of the most sensible, rational steps anyone can take.
Every taxpayer on the planet looks for legal ways to reduce way they owe, or at least claim every deduction and exemption they’re entitled to.
No one files a 1040 saying, “Yeah, I’m not going to claim the child tax credit or medical expenses this year…”
Arranging one’s affairs for tax optimization is normal.
People shop at duty free stores specifically to save money and not pay sales tax.
Others live in one place (New Hampshire, for example) and commute to another (Boston) to save on state income tax.
Doing the same thing for a company is hardly different.
Apple started its shift by moving its profit center from California to Nevada, thus saving the company 8.84% in California state income tax.
From Nevada, the company then set up its Irish subsidiaries, saving the lion’s share of the federal corporate tax rate.
People blast Apple (and Microsoft, Google, GE, etc.) as unpatriotic for taking advantage of the legal options available to them.
This is simply an ignorant assertion. Critics have completely forgotten that the pretext of the American Revolution was largely motivated by taxation.
I would suggest that it is US politicians who are unpatriotic. They penalize productive citizens and businesses with one of the highest tax rates in the world.
At 39%, the United States of America has a higher corporate tax rate than Norway (27%). Or ‘Communist’ China (25%). And yes, even Russia (20%).
Moreover, I would suggest that going offshore is actually patriotic.
You see, these tactics aren’t just available to Apple and Microsoft. Even small businesses can legally take advantage of comprehensive tax treaties and offshore sales companies, especially if you are operating an online business.
Legally reducing your tax bill means putting less money in the hands of people who have an uninterrupted track record of destruction and failure.
They have an abysmal history of managing other people’s money. They blow it all on bombs, drones, wars, and unsustainable social welfare programs.
People in the Land of the Free grow up being taught that voting is a patriotic duty.
If you believe this to be true, then note that the most powerful votes you can cast are the ones you make with your feet… and your money.
Every single day you are essentially ‘voting’ for the products and services that you value. If you buy an iPad, this is like casting a vote for Apple with your dollars.
This market-based approach is much more powerful than standing in a booth and being forced to choose between two complete idiots.
In the market, the best products and services receive the most votes, and hence, stay in business.
The worst companies don’t receive enough votes to stay in business, and they ultimately go under (but not before getting a $536 million loan guarantee from the Department of Energy).
Politics can work the same way.
Rather than vote in the booth for new people, we can simply vote with our money and actions to restrict the resources they have available.
This isn’t scandalous, shameful, or even remotely unpatriotic.
Rather, using legal means to slash the amount of tax that you pay is the most powerful, conscious way you can cast a vote that really matters: a vote of No Confidence.
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Offshore Bitchez!
What's unpatriotic is the fucking potholes on Wolfe Rd., where Apple ripped up the street (for fiber lines, one would think) for its new mothership construction. You have jillions of dollars but can't patch up a couple of potholes on your own streets (for which you don't pay a single cent towards in taxes)? Fucking basteds.
Unpatriotic? Yes. And look what the CIA did to him? They seeded him with pancreatic cancer cells. Lets see who tries it next? Good luck!
No, whats REALLY unpatriotic, is telling a married couple making $250k per year that they should be in the highest tax bracket. He votes for and supports people who are willing to line his pockets---and then try to pay for it on the backs of people who might be doing OK, but they sure as hell aren't flying around in private jets to their 4th summer home. Another limosine liberal and a major hypocrite.
Jobs was a MAJOR supporter of the mulato jesus, and what America has become is precisely what Jobs wanted more of. Simon Black should find some other demi-god to use to push his offshoring agenda which, thanks to the people that Jobs worked so hard to get elected, is rapidly becoming an IRS magnet hell hole. Now if only Apple had to pay FBAR and FATCA type penalties, and if only the heirs to the Jobs fortune had to pay the kind of inheritance taxes than Jobs worked so hard to foist on the rest of America.
This article sucked. False premising baiting and switching, these are not the droids you are looking for, and all that. As if the 0.01 percent didn't rig the tax code years ago.
For instance, just because someone legalizes "first night" or prima nocta or whaterver it's called, that doesn't make it right.
paying slave wages to have phones made, with the likes of romney right behind with "the barbed wire is to keep the job seekers out" comment. that's a crime, along with simon says....lol
Wouldn't a company be subject to litigation from shareholders if it didn't utilize tax avoidence policies? I certainly wouldn't invest in one that didn't.
"Steve Jobs Held Billions Of Dollars Offshore. Was He "Unpatriotic"?"
not at all!
hugs,
kenlay
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/28/us/enron-s-many-strands-offshore-banki...
what makes steve jobs unpatriotic is the fact that he sold out to the nsa
BINGO
the rest of the discussion is a distraction
Fuck Steve Jobs...he is just an occultist that invented mindless and spiritless electronic gadgets so that they can turn us into soulless androids.
Brought to you in part by, Android. Pick one up at your local verizon!
Haha jk
Ive been watching way to msm
Having billions of dollars, with which to buy politicians, to grant special tax loopholes in your favor is not patriotic. Its called loving onesself more than anything, or anyone in the world.
Any asshole with billions of dollars can do it.
maskone909
+1 you made your career on a single concise comment!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etBRqzt7OqY
great handle btw mr mutilator. great movie.
I'm still surprised the movie didn't win the Oscar for 'BEST DOCUMENTARY'
...and the collusion to keep talented people's wages low.
Sovereignty and patriotism is so yesterday. Watch Ned Beatty preach in the movie Network about big business being the only reality and allegiance to mega corporations being the new patriotism.
That was his deal with the devil. The agreement was made early on in the iPhone concept stage which, upon permission by the NSA, allowed Apple to start its meteoric rise. All the other phone players "died off" who didnt make the deal.
Quite possibly so.
Snapple
He not only held cash offshore, but he reinvested dividends into Alpaca farms.
At this moment in time, I take being called "unpatriotic" as a compliment.
pods
It is a compliment.
It costs a lot to run multiple wars, a world wide military presence, and a world wide spying network. That is just for starters. I for one was not born to support any of these activities on moral grounds so I certainly refuse to do so financially.
iDontCare
That company unlike pretty much any other manufacturing company could afford to employ North Americans to manufacture their products. They can charge pretty much whatever they like for their products and the legion of brainwashed automotons will run out to buy the latest icrap.
What happens to the multinational companies when the middle class is eliminated and there is nobody left to buy their crap. No not unpatriotic just shortsighted. Where is Henry Ford when you need him.
Henry Ford said beware the American Jew.
There will never be another Henry Ford becuase of that.
You (and the rest of ZH) seem proud of that statement.
You (and the rest of ZH) seem proud of that statement.
Not me. Fuck the ZeroHedge Nazis! Pollution.
Your comment stinketh of socialism.
Loss of the middle class is not caused by companies, but in national policy. The management of Apple (a publicly traded company) is charged with the responsibility of maximizing shareholder value. If that value can be increased by having products manufactured overseas, so be it. If the management fails to take advantage of these opportunities, they are canned by the board. If the board fails to take advantage of these opportunities, the shareholders are able to can them.
If national policy results in high corporate taxes and other conditions where companies must "hide" profits overseas, etc... America needs to rethink who is elected into office.
In the end, the corporations are not established to create jobs (no pun intended), but first and foremost, to generate a profit.
Boo fucking hoo.
Maybe the management of companies ought to have as their first priority the health of the business. Why do shareholders occupy some exalted status in this world? Why are shareholders at the top of the chain? They are investors...investors are NOT entitled to return of 'value'...
I'm sick of hearing about the fucking shareholders. Spin the wheel and take your chances, like any other gamble.
Is would appear that the management of the company DOES have as their first priority the health of the business. This, as evidenced by the cash they are protecting from liberal grabbers offshore, along with their offshoring of manufacturing efforts..
Why are shareholders at the top of the food chain? Because it is their THEIR cash which provides the core financial foundation of the company. When you buy stock, you buy a piece of the company. And yes, investors are most certainly entitled to a return of value. There is no other reason for people to put money into the venture.
Spin the wheel and take your chances? Now that is a lousy strategy.
Just how naive are you?
Dear Wind.. the high corporate taxwa,,,MOST corporation pay 12.9 percent .. its the small busiessman who is getting screwed .. .. http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/07/02/american-companies-effective-tax-... Sole proprietorships face a 13.3 percent rate, small partnerships face 23.6 percent, and small S corporations face 26.9 percent. While not directly comparable, the rate faced by small C corporations is 17.5 percent.in THIS fORBES ARTICLE ...some pay taxes.. some lik GE often pay none .. 'Exxon paid no US taxes in the US with an effective rate of 47 percent . by and large average it out . the US govt. collect ``12.8 percent from larger corporations . a high tax rate does not mean that is what they are paying...........http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/01/ge-exxon-walmart-business-washington-co... We need tax reform .. this giant cluster benefits no one . corporate or individauls.. it only beneits tax laywers, accountants and govt.
They have been and will continue to seel their crap to emerging middle classes around the world.
They don't give a fuck about us.
What is unpatriotic is giving corporations tax advantages unavailable to ordinary flesh and blood citizens. Level playing field is all I want.
Level playing field is all I want.
You'll never, ever have that, so long as one group of men is authorized to take everyone else's money by force.
Pretending otherwise is for children.
you referring to the tribe banksters?
and while ur at it.....define money, if u can
they have "legal options" because they were paid for by bribing dirty politicians. there should be a 20% tax on every penny held offshore. or, we can round up the tax evaders and their fucking families, seize their assets, and throw them the fuck in jail. see how their entitled wives like shitting in front of a few hundred men. i can be there to look after their duaghters. see how the do without the bmw my taxes went to pay for. the author of this article is an azzhole.
jealous much?
Now member you promised to help my uncle and me cover up that gold come november,(you know, the money for land taxes) I'll be waitin for ya. And leave the gait open this time, sawin those locks in half takes real energy.
Yeah, yeah totally! Let's totally rek those fools by getting the same dirty, wholly-owned politicians to steal their money and...something something now we're cool. Oh, and we should have you rape their daughters, too.
Way to think this one through ya putz.
In a globalized world, no. Should we have a globalized world? Discuss.
"In a feudalized world, no." -- fixed it for you. How about discussing some rule of law. Look, if it's really a fucking free-for-all that everybody wants then let's get the fuck on with it already.
if it's really a fucking free-for-all...
It is, of course.
The big gang of abusers is called "government." They've terrorized and bamboozled most everyone else.
Correctly put mosad'd and shystered everyone.
"In a globalized world, no. Should we have a globalized world? Discuss."
in my opinion there is a difference between globalization and global trade. meaning: in global trade the countries that hold the best advantages to produce widget X would competitively drive other countries to focus on their own advantages and produce some other widget. the result would be certain countries would have certain expertise and specialized exports. we would trade with each other to get that which we couldn't produce ourselves, hence global trade.
in globalization this doesnt happen, we all get homogenized to look the same, produce the same, consume the same, borrow the same, etc.
but has the Westphalia Treaty and nationalism really failed? If you subtract out the fake wars started by banksters trying to create debt then the answer is no, it hasn't.
I think we'd all agree that self determination is the way to go.
Hohum, my question back to you is: should we have usury? P < P + interest, and the banks only issue enough credit for the principal, so in a debt based monetary system where does the money for interest payments come from exactly?
The guy was a total sociopathic fuck.
The man is so fucked in the head he actually enjoyed Satan's ass reaming. So he was sent to heaven for punishment. He is now begging god every day to send him back to hell where he was happy.
"People blast Apple (and Microsoft, Google, GE, etc.) as unpatriotic for taking advantage of the legal options available to them."
Does it occur to Simon that most of these options are created havens as opposed to his vanilla word "available"?
Every piece of Joe Six Pack legistlation I ever see is another way for the 1% of the 1% to further fuck him.
So let me get this straight: You want to sell to first world consumers, people educated enough to want and use your gizmos, who have first world lifestyles based on infrastructure like roads and sewers and water mains and power lines that make it possible for them to even consider your gizmos as a purchase; but you don't want to contribute anything towards said education or infrastructure, that's for someone else to pay for. Do I have that right?
"Do I have that right"?
No
Just about. You forgot to mention all the basic research that government paid for that lead to many apple products (not to mention the internet). Moreovere, do we want to have some rule of law? If not, fine, let's get this fucking "free-for-all" started already motherfuckers!!!
Yeah imagine Apple without the internet...
Only a fool believes that taxes fund any of the feel-good shit you're discussing.
$18 trillion ring a bell?
It's not unpatriotic because he gave the NSA all Apple users information.
Facism is patriotic.
Obama and his liberals, who supported Jobs, can't get to it.
How does that make you feel? All that Apple phone and iPod money you spent is sitting in overseas accounts.
Steve Jobs was not unpatriotic for not wanting to give Uncle Sam more than his "fair share".
Steve Jobs was however a giant Douchebag for his lack of philanthropy both during and after life, he was a pretty good visionary and a shining example of liberal sheepherder ideals.
I didn't see him give away 24 billion to good causes, and leave his heirs a measly 1 billion to struggle thru life with...
So the US has a higher corp tax rate. The percentage of federal revenue collected through said tax has plummeted since the 1960s.
Invoking "Patriotism" is nothing more than a certified propaganda technique.
If you have money you can afford to not pay taxes.
"...Rather, using legal means to slash the amount of tax that you pay is the most powerful, conscious way you can cast..."
Well, That's just great for the few who have enough money to hire a room of accountants who spend their time making sure you don't pay, but for the average slob citizen, You're fucked.
The tax rules were MADE for the Steve Jobs, et al who can afford to LEGALLY hide their money.
C'mon. Greed portrayed as "patriotism". Jobs didn't evade taxation because he hated American warmongering, but because he was a self-serving greedy bastard. He sold out to the NSA, BTW.
Who do you think you're fooling?
Steve Jobs was smart. He's the one who suggested FoxConn put up more suicide nets so the line wouldn't slow down.
I'll bet the 1% Greeks have their money offshore. I guess that is why Greece can't get there tax money. I would say unpatriotic because no one wants to pay taxes but some get away with it, big time.
Well, I do beleive Warren Buffet sends in more money than he owes in Taxes. Afterall, he publicly asked congress to increase his taxes and IIRC, Orran Hatch responeded he send in a check. Since Buffet is not a hypocrite, I assume he sends in a check every year.
I wish governments would get out of the way so that mega businesses could run this planet in an orderly and profitable manner. Let Milo Minderbinder (Catch22) rule. He knows what he's doing.
I believe welfare queen Warren wants you to pay more taxes, not himself. Carry on
Of course he was unpatriotic. He rebuilt the Chinese manufacturing industry at the expense of the United States' almost single-handedly.
patriotism should be confined to companies and not to countries.
'Steve Jobs was the biggest prick I've ever met!' - Everyone Who Ever Met Him
did you really meet him? Did you get his autograph? Lucky you if you did.
Yeah really lucky! Ol' Stevie boy sold your private information, confidental material & personal data 1000's of times to any buyer before that hypocrite/paracite croaked!
He seemed more prickly than assholey. The man walked past me twenty times at work before I dared say hello.. He looked back and nodded.
Was the guy who revolutionized five industries and touched the lives of billions of people some nefarious traitor because he held so much money offshore?
Of course not.
But when he organized the California tech industry to feloniously suppress the wages of tens of thousands of tech engineers via RAcketeering w Goole and Ebay and other tech titans, was he a FELON?
You tell me.
yes and yes
The US war machine provides a safe global environment for multi-national corporations to do business in.
If multi-national corporations don't want to pay for them, just have a military big enough to protect the US and no more.
Average tax payers get no benefit from US wars around the world and I am sure they don't want them either.
Tax payers say NO to the US war machine, run it down immediately.
Did Steve Jobs design the suicide nets around his Chinese factories?
An Apple logo on every one .....
The ultimate corporatist would have sold his grandmother for $0.05!
Steve Jobs? Wasn't he the guy who was alienated from his kids, emotionally cripped, bought a Chinese liver, and despite his wealth, relaized he couldn't take it with him?
Good riddance!
Incredible story of a guy who regularily F'd his partner, investors, shareholders, employees, competitors, consumers, tax-payers & people love him for it!
This insiuates that paying taxes is patriotic. Too dastardly of a statement for myself. Starving the beast is patriotic, not that Steve was playing that game. Taxes at this point on any level are a waste, no representation.
IMHO, whats unpatriotic is politicians taking money from foreign sources whether while in office or before campaigning for office.
No not unpatriotic. Just another uber rich cunt willing to sell out his fellow countryman in the name of globalism to make himself richer.
yes he was
The problem I have with Jobs et al is that becuase they launched their product in the US, they enjoyed "protections" offered by the US through contract law and more obliquely, by the protection offered by US military might. Could he have pulled this amazing APPL rabbit out of the hat in a third world country or even in Europe? I don't know.
The military, supported by ordinary citizen taxpayers and grunt soldiers admittedly volunteeers, nevertheless enables this kind of diaspora of US based industrialization and world trade, and preservation of wealth abroad in foreign accounts.
In short, it is the lowly US citizen who pays for "protection" as well as the lowly SE Asian wage slave that actually puts these iPhones together who has enabled these big corporations to flourish via world expansion.
Apple was always overhyped. Check keynotes and product releases. It's 99.9% hype and BS.
There is nothing revolutionary about it.
Industries exploiting slave labour were always the most profitable endevaours in history.
Such a shame he could not of bought out Acorn Computers, Cambridge, UK for a tiny pinch of that wod
A selfish prick is more like it. It's the middle class that gets ass-raped with higher taxes becsue pricks like this hide their wealth.
Die Steve die! .........oh fuck you're already dead, good!
The Vampire State cannot stand having a pool of blood they cannot suck. Paying taxes to this State is immoral.
I agree, Jobs is the poster boy for what NOT to be ? Amerika now praies the fucking criminals because they win by any means even if it means eating your children or somebody elses ! Jobs was a sociothic criminal and likely a psychopath driven by ego and greed !Sometimes they get exactly what they deserve. We shall see the rest of the maniacs play out ? Fuck Jobs and the control freaks !