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Despite Russian Warnings, US Will Deploy A Battalion To Ukraine By The End Of The Week
"Before this week is up, we’ll be deploying a battalion... to the Ukraine to train Ukrainian forces for the fight that's taking place," stated US 173rd Airborne Brigade Commander Colonel Michael Foster said at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, DC on Monday. Despite earlier warnings from Russia (and claims that NATO had not agreed to any such foreign 'boots on the ground' action'), Sputnik News reports, Foster added, "what we’ve got laid out is six United States companies that will be training six Ukrainian companies throughout the summer."
This comes a week after PM David Cameron confirmed Britain will be sending 75 military personnel to help combat Russian military aggression.
Despite earlier reports from Russia's NATO envoy that, as TASS reports,
NATO has taken no decisions on sending British or any other instructors to Ukraine, Russia’s Ambassador to the North Atlantic Alliance Alexander Grushko said on Monday.
"NATO has taken no decisions on sending instructors," he told the Rossiya 24 television channel. "NATO is implementing the decisions that were taken at the political level at the Wales summit in September 2014."
Moscow will take all measures, including military-technical, to neutralize possible threat from NATO presence in Ukraine, he added.
It seems it is happening, as Sputnik News reports,
The United States will deploy personnel by the end of this week to train the Ukrainian national guard, US 173rd Airborne Brigade Commander Colonel Michael Foster said at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, DC on Monday.
“Before this week is up, we’ll be deploying a battalion minus… to the Ukraine to train Ukrainian forces for the fight that’s taking place,” Foster stated. “What we’ve got laid out is six United States companies that will be training six Ukrainian companies throughout the summer.”
...
The current plan is for US forces to stay six months, he said, and noted there have been discussions about how to increase the duration and the scope of the training mission.
The current channels for military training set up between Ukraine and the United States would not be used for transferring defensive lethal aid if the United States decided to provide arms to Ukraine, Foster told Sputnik on Monday.
“It would go through something separate... We would not funnel the lethal aid or arms through that [training] event, we would use a secondary method for that,” Foster said, adding that a completely separate process is preferable.
* * *
Here is the full interview with Colonel Foster: "If Russia will invade Ukraine, why would we not think they will invade the US next?"
At 14:45, Colonel Foster discusses the deployment of US troops to Ukraine...
* * *
Of course, we already knew American military boots were on the ground in east Ukraine...
But this seems like a direct aim at Putin after the war-mongery rhetoric this morning:
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Because sending a handful of advisors to a war torn country has worked so well in the past.
This time for SURE!
Does anyone really think these ziofucks care how many military and civilian deaths there are on both sides?
As long as they get what they want......paper control. printer control.
RIPS
How many dip-shits in the pentagram did it take to bake this strategy? Pure, unfiltered hubris...
Supporting a failed neo-nazifascist government installed by NATO and run by a central banker Yats.
We must be so close to collapse that our governments are desperate for cover.
But this is treason - not cover for failed monetary policy.
2015
IT IS 3 MINUTES TO MIDNIGHT
http://thebulletin.org/clock/2015
It's increasingly clear that our "leaders" are either insane or mentally handicapped, and we're at the point when it doesn't matter which one it is. Either way, they could very easily get us all killed.
Time to officially rename the United States "Full Retardistan" and be done with it.
tough
New Anonymous op as White House still ignores murder of American reporter Serena Shim in Turkey
UN Chief: Israel may have purposely targeted UN base in Lebanon, killing Spanish soldier – VIDEO
The 173rd is not a training Battalion. It's a combat unit.
The field advisors and trainers are already in the Ukraine, they announced that like three weeks ago. This is a build up for open war.
and, as with vietnam, afghanistan and iraq, the u.s. enjoys logistical supply advantage as well as better morale because it means more to us than to them.
I'd like to take this opportunity to thank everyone for their comments over the years.
If I survive, I'm REALLY going to miss Zero Hedge.
Fortunately, I have a desk.
Looks like after midnight, everybodys pretty drunk, the pile on the table is really big and everyones all in. Just waiting on the river. Its not even about the money anymore now that it is obvious to many that it is make believe anyway. Now as always it is about raw power and control of everything.
Merkel is very quite, Hollande is very quite, in fact all of EU has gone very very quite.
I wonders why.
No worries....it's just a police action.
SARC for the neophytes.
In the history of bad ideas...this has got to be right up there.
Certianly explains all the Jihadi John distraction. This is nothing more than a False Flag Battalion.
BTW, has anyone actually seen this Jihadi Pawn chop anyones head off? All I've seen are those diet commercial Before and After pics.
Europe doesn't wanna do this WW3 shit... They still remember the one before it. I hope whatever attempt at WW3 USA!USA!USA! tries, that it leads to a breakup of EU/NATO.
I have a feeling World War 3 is gonna end up being USA&Israel vs everybody else. If we're not all nuclear ash, I'd be very curious about what future history books will say of our bastard empire.
without the world reserve currency none of this could happen! the fed is printing war.
first it was printing billionaires under the guise of pro$perity, but now it is clear the fed is printing a blueprinted path to world donimation and the only question is what nation(s) are going to stop this advance? i think we all know, but we are truely afraid of the results. IN-FUCKING-SANITY!
I'd be very curious about what future history books will say of our bastard empire.
They'll say the USA was dealt a full house and yet it lost the great game through sheer stupidity.
Quite...........about what???? ah I see, you mean quiet, where did some of you go to school, you did, did you not?
Mother do you think they'll drop the bomb?
http://youtu.be/n_yRvxy9HVs
Not sure... But it would appear that 'THE ECONOMIST 2015' 11.3 number is very much on pace for something.
You can't say we weren't warned.....that was the whole point of that deal.
I've picked my side.......bring it.
The part that gets me is we fully admit that we go to war for the money and jobs, (on the inside when we need to influence someone). On the outside, we don't talk at all, just walk away.
"I told you... I'm a Kung Fu Man... I bleed on the INSIDE!!! But you wouldn't know that cause you're a big Barry White looking MF"
- Billy Ray Valentine [Capricorn]
Well that's wonderful.
If no one picked 'sides' there would be no industrial warfare.
But people are proud of being gibbering idiots and go on to say stupid-hero stuff like, "Bring it", then act all surprised when it is actually 'brung'.
So I don't want to hear your whining about how the world's 95% demolished and how you're starving, or your sniveling about how badly your oozing wounds are hurting, and smell.
First off, I'll burst out laughing at your self-inflicted plight, then I'll pick up a very heavy piece of masonry, and make make sure that you won't breed. Consider it Mercy.
Happy ever after.
Martin Armstrong's "Confidence" Model - 2015.75
Shemitah Ends - 2015.75 (7 yrs from 2008.75... 14 yrs from 2001.75)
Knowing that you lost your firearms in a unfortunate boating accident, you should also keep a pair of scissors handy while hiding under the desk. This is for protection until the government comes to help....and is for your own good.
American troops are better fed than Russian troops, but unfortunately it makes them a bigger target.
actually, american troops have such a synthetic diet of 'nutrition' and meds that they may not be considered human anymore
Pro-Russian Hackers Expose U.S. Military Contractor Activity in Ukraine
Read http://observer.com/2015/03/pro-russian-hackers-expose-u-s-military-contractor-activity-in-ukraine/#ixzz3TJdwe5f2
Then they are going to get their arses kicked. Does hubris help you on the battlefield?
Thank you Nid, I wonder when someone was going to say that.
It's worse than just another USSA combat unit.
It is the rapid reaction force for the US Army in Europe. It is one step down from deploying a dedicated door kicker (Ranger) or regime change (SF) combat unit, which would provide zero PR cover. The 173 was actually about the most difficult unit for aspiring door kickers and regime changers in the infantry to get transferred to, because of the great weather (beaches and skiing both within short distance) and lots of hot young white women (NOT FROM WALMART), or so my buddies said, since it wan't reactivated until after my time...
Training in use of NATO weapons, tactics and progressive combat integration thereafter.
6 US companies training 6 companies of Ukranian "National Guard" in small unit combat tactics... The answer to the 3rd question specifically "working and fighting" could be interpreted in interesting ways, as well as the answer at 30 mins in regards to tactical adaptation to the little green men's tactics and skillsets. A worthy investment of an hour even though the Colonel isn't the next Einstein or Alexander the Great, but without a colonel-speak-to-English translator- one could wind up too deep down the rabbit hole, although even with a translator- it is apparent the US itself is pretty far down that rabbit hole already.
-People this VERY VERY SERIOUS.. Look at the build up.
Russia Moves -
Russia paying $2000 / month for fresh recruits to 'take leave' and then given a Grad or Tank and sent into Ukraine. I personally talked to a guy at work from Russia - his cousin almost signed till his grandparents stepped in and made him come home.
America Moves -
America following the final paper from the Brookings Institute to the letter funds $1 billion to disrupt UAV's from Russia which give Artillery immediate coordinates for striking Ukranian troops.
Russia Moves -
Russia sends a clear message to Obama by painting 'This bombs for you' on the side of a 20 megaton warhead in it's official military parade. You just don't do this stuff unless you are clearly serious.
America Moves -
Two days later America begins conducting NATO exercises 300 yards from the Russian Border. Stick swinging to provoke the bear at it's finest..
Russia Moves
- American aging weather satellite experiences 'rapid rise in heat' which causes it to explode. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/11444155/US-military-satellit... - only reported in the British media. Clearly shot down
America Moves
- 172 COMBAT battalion deploying this week - will clearly be active in the Ukraine despite their claims that they are for 'training' The only training they will be conducting is side by side operations with Ukranian forces.
PEOPLE GET READY. Stockpile food, water, and provision for marital law. There is a real and likely scenario that this war will go hot, and when it does it will happen so fast by the time the media leaks get through the military sensors and the public panics it will be too late. I expect that there will be tactical nuclear exchanges by both sides - as both sides care not if Ukraine is made a nuclear waste land.
How I bet you all your PM's that nothing happens? It will all be saber rattling. None these fuckwads on either side wants a war, nor has the stomach (usa) and money (russia) for one.
"Russia sends a clear message to Obama by painting 'This bombs for you' on the side of a 20 megaton warhead in it's official military parade. You just don't do this stuff unless you are clearly serious."
That was actually a 0.00002 megagram warhead made out of styrofoam in its (sic) official Russian-people-standing-around-in-a-crowd parade. Oleg wouldn't have put such attention to the paint job had he not been experienced with miniatures, about which he is clearly serious.
I thought our military types would be smarter and tougher, than to simper along and follow the evil bidding of a community organizer and his Wall Street handers, who are just going to get more of our military men and women killed over their viscious, safely behind the line elitist schemes.
Have you forgotten that TPTB have retired every commander willing to stand up to their plans for nuclear war.
+1 for your picture. Just like the horse from Adventure Time, the powers that be are whack. They've got poo brain.
American GIs in postwar Germany raped up to 190,000 women at the end of World War II .
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/book-claims-us-soldiers-rape...
Make you wonder how many women were raped in Vietnam.
Probably don't want to bring up the UN numbers.
Rape in wartime usually happens by thugs with guns on helpless women...clearly we should arm every woman on the planet.
If we do that...I'm thinking those numbers will go down.
Unlike the progressives...I actually am for women's rights.
Why do you think so many soldiers that were in war zones at the end of WW2 refused to talk about it?
Either they ordered it, took part in it or they watched or they knew about it and did nothing.
I hope they are rotting in hell.
How the German nation got over this is absolutely astonishing.
Oh and don't forget the millions of Germans expelled in appalling conditions from Easter Europe. I expect that some if those films with people crammed into cattle wagons are from that period, after the war.
Oh and then there are the German prisoners of war, in France, Germany, UK etc treated very badly as slaves, dying in 100s of thousands, until 1947/8 when the Allies suddenly realised that the Germans were starting to believe that Communism would be better than what they were experiencing. Hence the panic Marshall Plan.
And that woman and gays have clamored to be allowed to be in combat. Plenty of fresh cannon fodder to be drafted.
Under these circumstances, what are the odds Putin has Russian troops in Kiev before the end of the week?
ZERO. Russian troops will not be used - they would get in the way of Iskander missiles and certainly hamper the Ukrainians overthrowing the regime
you think Pootie would lob missiles at "the tripwire" fodder O's handlers are sending?
WE are provoking this situation to the limits, by we, I mean our chosen 'representatives'
If Russia openly crosses the border, even if they are in the right to do so, ww3 will be within hours/days. The leaders here are bat-shit crazy.
<ruskie troops in kiev
< ruskies go gold standard
and we, the people, are the ones to suffer for it
Do you really give a fuck if it is troops or missiles? Do you really give a fuck who is in charge of Russia? The fuckwits in DC are trying to start a war, and that means all sorts of fucked up bullshit. That shit will come home, and when it does, you'll have about 30 minutes warning.
Car bombs have been a weak point for American troops stationed abroad. With the heavy penetration of Ukraine's govt and forces by FSB, the USA soldiers are sitting ducks.
I wonder, with the long historical ties between Russia and Ukraine, just how many double and triple agents are in both security services. Not to mention the high ranking outright mobsters in the military who are only looking out for themselves and their clan. I think that the balance would tip in favor of Russia, but who knows?
30mins and then the biggest fireworks display in human history as we check the human race out
the only message the west will get is this:
1) the russians for some reason have ordered the evacuation of all cites.
2) " " " " " " cut off all communications w/the west.
3) " " " " " " ordered all males 16+ to 65 to active duty within 24 hrs, and all armed forces to defcon max.
"I'm an Armageddon man,
gonna push that button as soon as I can..."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYh9P7b8mS4
It appears the Nuke Clock goof balls has a new enemy in unchecked globull climatic change. 70 years of hand waving and screeching is a diversion so we can all find it acceptable to club brown people to death with copper and lead. Yea baby, we are doing it the humane way.
I agree that collapse must be imminent if the U.S. is engaging in such provocations.
An empire nearing the mathematical end of failed economic policies will lash out much like a cornered animal. However, the fact that the animal is cornered doesn't make it any less dangerous.
if they have imminent collapse, they will make another serious provoking, thi is just boots on grounds, it is a step but i think we got at least the time for the better weather condition, usa will not go in winter...
Go and do what? Invade Russia? You would have to be really dellusional to think that. The Russians also have a multual defence pact with both Iran and China.
General Montgomery quote - One of the great laws of war is Never invade Russia
delusional of what, seeing your country acting like fuckards attacking every nations that got ressources you need to build your smartphones and drive your ugly cars who consume more oil than an declining alchoholic ? when others nations tried to fight russia, usa did not exist yet...
so yes, i think anglo-saxon modern interests are fucked enought to make a war with russia.
why the fuck you see they are landing in ukrain.
check this map u genius... and try to get the limit of the expension,
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9ZNTNQ6YLFU/VBwNwUpDE_I/AAAAAAAAWXY/PMj2welmpt...
That will start an all out WW3 for sure.
Speaking of provocations, NOW we know one of the reasons why the CIA/Mossad assassinated Nemstov.
It was specifically to provide cover for this... the timing is just too neat.
The US narrative will be: "See what a monster Putin is? We need to send these troops to help the brave Ukrainies stand up to the evil Ruskies"
Moving US Troops into Ukraine is a big deal - even Cameron's administration started to qualify and backtrack on his 75 "training" troop deployment, and there seems to be some healthy reluctance within the saner parts of NATO.
It will be interesting to see how Putin responds to *this* provocation.
It does, however, suggest that the Ukraine puppet government is really wobbly and things in Ukraine about to light off again in unexpected ways...
If Putin is smart, he'll do nothing. Kiev is getting it's ass kicked and I doubt a battalion is going to do a fucking thing in changing that. If the US is going to fall on it's sword then Putin should stand aside and let them. That's been his strategy all along and the US knows it. That is why an even bigger provocation is likely from the US. They are desparate to deflect blame for the collapse of the US.
"When you see your enemy making a mistake, don't stop him." Or something to that effect.
I am still trying to figure out what Obama needed to be "flexible" for in his second term.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jOcuqyTef4
Not this...?
The ZWO gangbangksters are long lead.
They've funded both sides of every major war for the past 300 years and probably before that too.
Enjoying goyim death and suffering is one of their favorite perversions.
Last I checked a battalion is about 1000 men. That's a lot of "trainers".
And I thought the whole ISIS/Syria/Asad thing was shaping up to be another Vietnam. Now we're gonna do two of them at the same time.
Lose troops in every war and make it up in volume.
Wait...
tiygh
Every facet of this provocation is insane bullshit. Why is anyone surprised that the liars involved are saying 1000 men, from an elite combat unit, are simply trainers?
The only surprise and shock should come if ANY of these complete wastes of skin were not lying. Makes me sick...
after the ukies got their ass kicked in the debaltsev cauldron, that makes a trainer to soldier ratio of 1:1
Seems as if human lives no longer matter as much, as long as victory is at hand
They're not men, or boots, or trainers or even troops. They're tripwires. Any one of them get capped and the US gets an excuse to go all in as far as they feel like. Same thing in Korea. US presence there far too small to actually repel an invasion. But it's a tripwire. Attached to the entire US military and all options under around and near to 'the table'.
War vs NK with SK as an ally and war vs Russia in their own backyard aren't exactly the same. US will be humiliated or the world will end. Russia will not lose on Russian soil. Napoleon's Grande Armee and the Imperial Guard lost. Hitler with his Wehrmacht and SS lost. Now Obama and a bunch of politically correct neutered generals and beaten down military will win? LOL
America has a bad habit of believing its own bullshit. Can we fight a dozen wars on several continents all at once? Of course we can! We're America! USA! USA!
(USA stands for Unpleasant Stench of Arrogance)
Just hope you don't meet another General Giap !
Or a another General Zhukov:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Zhukov
The other day I revisited a 2003 German documentary on the Battle of Stalingrad. Brilliant, packed with interviews of surviving German and Russian soldiers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-LZKo74VGg
The Empire of Chaos wants to invade the country that broke the back of the Nazi war machine at Stalingrad? Vietnam wasn't lesson enough? Oh, this will end well...
The several hundred dead marines in Beirut Lebanon was a tripwire for getting out of the country. The USA has sent our young men into a hornet's nest, and American culture is not going to save them from a very bad fate.
I had to up vote you for the new TLA
Agreed they think Captain america is a real person. Tv tubes have fried their brains.
But, it's different this time. 'We are the ones we've been waiting for.'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=molWTfv8TYw
Unlike Obama Putin will make fast and rapid decisions if a crisis starts. I would guess the Russians have already thought this through. The wankers in Washington act like it is a frivolous game like all the other US military screw ups. To Russia though it is a matter of national survival.
It might not come in Ukraine.......it is a big wide world and Imperial Overstretch is a US problem
The thing is that Russians will prefer to die than to see his country being take over by Americans even if it mean using Topol M on it's own soil...
Since many years (of watching conflict between US/Western power and the Islamic militant), I have noticed that Western army soldiers fear death and relying a lot to the technology and air strike, while for example the Islamic militant doesn't fear death. You can't really win against someone who his ready to put his life in the equation and you not !
The Russian have both: doesn't fear death and very good tech, going open war is just suicidal !
Don't forget Charles 12th of Sweden he lost in Russia too in the early 17th century against Peter the great.
And that is only the "modern" history. The tartar vs moscow and the swede vs moscow goes back farther. Not to mention the papal crusades that were sent and approved by Rome.
in those times there were no satellite, no intercontinental missile and no nation who ever nuked another one yet...
psychopaths are their own limits...
I would fight harder against someone trying to sneak into my backyard than I would fight against someone in a public park.
......why do I have that Pulp Fiction scene playing in my head when hear these stupid bastards yammering on like that, Ezekiel 25:17....... Putin is a cool enough character to play SLJ speech....... Obama/Kerry ...... well not so much.
You in the deepwater now bitches, your fake iron dome bullshit ain't gonna play here.... look at how fucked up our troops get when a few get picked off by snipers when they go out on patrol and extrapolate the effect when they come back from patrol and the whole base is incinerated, Yeah they might be the tripwires of the US military but when was the last time the US military faced defence in depth at the same time as offensive forces capable of dropping troop transports out of the sky mid atlantic?? Anyway the russians aren't the force TPTB are truly afraid of ....... if Americans ever become self aware then shit will fly at random.......
You really think the US military has an idea of what it is doing. The Russians, Chinese and Iranians have options also.
they seem to think so, haha
A 2fer war is cheaper at the margin...at least it should be. But in reality, who are we kidding? We'll spend more on war.
Yes but where exactly has a US battalion been effective recently ? ?They should be in Iraq honoring the Warranty
Yes but where exactly has a US battalion been effective recently ? ?They should be in Iraq honoring the Warranty
A NATO Brigade can be 3200-5500 troops.
In France it's up to 10,000.
Are NATO troops well trained? Just the language barriers alone must be a nightmare, let alone cultural cohesion. How would they stand up to Ukrainian rebels?
Sorry, I was ambiguous in my meaning. All I meant was that a US Brigade would correspond to NATO size, even though the std US Brigade is 3200. Think of it as QE for brigade size (fudging).
Welcome back Kirk, hadn't seen you in a while.
@Kirk, No problem, I was not clear in my question. What I meant was, is NATO really a professional army good enough to fight alongside or against a real military, official or voluntary? Or is NATO just a Hollywood style army of multi-culti diversity with fabulous uniforms and shiny toys? Is NATO made up of vets from real armies or just thousands who would be otherwise unemployed so enlisting is just a paycheck? The NATO reps look like real pansies, can they hold up against either Uks or separatists?
your whole question is irrelevant, here, then it's not about NATO, then Ukraine is not a NATO member
as a reminder, France and Germany are still trying to find a peaceful solution and are currently negotiating between Ukraine and Russia
meanwhile, both the UK and the US think that sending military advisors to Ukraine is a good idea
but since we are here: no, generally speaking most european countries that are part of the NATO alliance don't have the training you'll find in crack troops from the US or Russia
but not all US or Russian troops are "crack", neither. (btw, roughly the EU countries have some 1.5 million soldiers, and spend three times more then Russia for defense)
the language barrier? it was never a problem, here in Europe. we have had something like hundreds of battles with multiple languages among allies. failures because of language barriers are very seldom, in military matters, there are way more important sources of failures around
further, this is a low-intensity proxy war
telling sign: artillery is being negotiated out of the field. this is relevant, then "standing up to Ukranian rebels" would be a stroll in the park, if heavy weapons were being used
Dear Ghordius,
A few months ago I noted that we were starting to see Russians and Americans/Brits actually firing at each other in Ukraine. We may have given them euphemisms like volunteers and advisors but nevertheless that's what we were seeing.
It is now confirmed beyond any doubt that the bankrupt psychopaths in the West are desperate to engage in a third world war. This is not going to be low intensity or proxy. Mark my words, when all is said and done, those who are fighting for their lives will not observe the niceties of agreements about which field pieces would not be deployed. Those artillery pieces will be rolled out when the Ukrainians & NATO troops attack once more as they have done during all the ceasefires and lulls in the fighting, which in turn will force a russian retaliation. We will see Russian tanks in Ukraine this time for real. Tanks, rockets, jets, troops and whatever else they have at their disposal. The Russian Parliament has already given its unanimous approval for military intervention in Ukraine last year. A little war is like a little pregnancy - nine months down the line, an explosion of blood and gore will change the lives of all involved forever.
The lies are already thick and fast in the msm. Quite frankly, I'm at a bit of a loss on how to counter them. From MH17 to Nemtsov, the demonization of Russia is at a far more advanced state than I could have imagined - it is incredible how quickly people can be taught to hate someone who did them no harm, a nation which was our ally and partner in growth and prosperity now consigned to a Pavlovian slavering reaction of dehumanized hate when it's leader's name is mentioned. For anyone with memory retention better than a goldfish, I am sure it feels like being locked up in a nation full of psychopaths when they pick up a newspaper.
This is not going to end well. Most of us knew full well that the banksters will start a major war to divert attention from the biggest theft of wealth in human history that has left whole nations insolvent, the forefront of which is the reserve currency. Even so, confirmation still comes as a shock. That such evil, disgusting criminal bastards could wield such power and influence in the 21st century, hoodwink our nations and march us to another war that is sure to sacrifice us all on their altar of hubris is astounding. We know their names: The private banks of the Federal Reserve, the US State Dept., NATO, the Zionazis Victoria Nuland, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, and Igor Kolomoisky for starters.
Dear YHC-FTSE... why don't we swear more often at each other? So that I can lob some "Damn Pommy Bastard" in between? That "Dear" looks so cosy in a "fight club" ;-)
I heavely disagree on the correctness of this sentence: "It is now confirmed beyond any doubt that the bankrupt psychopaths in the West are desperate to engage in a third world war"
yes, plenty of warmongers. yes, plenty of efforts of destabilization. but there is no profit in world war as we know it
in many ways, the US MIC and the Russian MIC are partners. They both want to leverage their existing military power and ensure the sweet flow of spice from their state coffers
considering that we had something like over one thousand low-intensity conflicts around the world that can be considered proxy wars since the Second World War... I don't see why this damn conflict should be different. Korea was not different. VietNam was not different. Ukraine will, imho, be noted in future history books as a similar conflict
Yes, currency is an important element. But not more then during VietNam, which btw was the main cause for Nixon to drop the gold backing of the USD
1971, randomly, from the "net": "A legacy of deception, concerning US policy in Vietnam, on the part of the military and the executive branch is revealed as the New York Times publishes the Pentagon Papers. The Nixon administration, eager to stop leaks of what they consider sensitive information, appeals to the Supreme Court to halt the publication. The Court decides in favor the Times and allows continued publication."
as much as I hate this conflict, I don't see much difference from 1971. Except of course that it will become increasingly difficult to finance large-scale war. Iraq costed a trillion, remember? And the Pentagon is going to reduce troops to half a million, from the high-mark of two millions, decades ago. As I noted above, the EU countries have 1.5 million. Hell, even little Switzerland could squeeze out half a million troops, in a pinch. But neither them nor us europeans want to waste them in large scale wars
no, I expect more mercenaries, more "green men", more Agent Provocateurs, more assassinations, more low-level conflicts, much more propaganda
but world war? the juice is out, for that, even if MAD would not apply. It's back to the Great Game of the 19th, or the Roman-Persian border disputes that lasted three centuries
both the US and the Russian MICs have priced themselves out of large scale conflicts. An effect of corruption and cronysm which is, for once, to applaud
nobody that has something to lose will ever start nuclear war, and you don't get near the buttons if you have nothing to lose
on the other side, plenty of money awaits the shills, the mercenaries, the political hacks that want to carve out exclusive economic pies out of the map
(btw, did not junk you, it's a game I stay out of)
You obviously know your history, so why fail to note that both WWI & WWII started out with bluffing, posturing and provocation? Whether they really want total war is not nearly as relevant as, does total war really want them. I find ZBig's The Grand Chessboard to be illuminating in this context.
ZBig makes money and friends with his opinion, while mine would be hard pressed to find any sponsor, even among the doves
yes, both WWI and WWII started with bluffs and provocations. but in both cases, the possibility of capturing and holding the other's capitals was thinkable
and this is not the case anymore, particularly the "holding" part. nobody even remotely believes Moscow or Paris or Washington could be captured and held, nowadays
hence proxy wars, deniable mercs, posturing in the rear while sending unmarked soldiers to the front, haggling over provinces. in short, border wars
the sickiest part of it is that both sides have no interest in finding official soldiers among the captured and dead. it would put a lid on the deniability, and so the conflict, at this stage
the amount of cooperation that is necessary to keep up the pretenses is staggering. and hopefully the main reason for peace, soon
Sorry Ghordius, that is an extremely weak argument.
Historically "capturing and holding" the enemy capitol may have been the goal, but a closer and more apt analog these days is what happened to Carthage, where the enemy capitol was turned into a pile of uninhabitable rubble by the Romans. That of course is what is now on the table, not "capture and hold".
Nukes level the playing field and also turn motives in existential ones - just surviving is a win.
You are treating the Russian MIC and Western MIC as having similar motivations, which I suspect is well off the mark given the disparity of budgets and the results of failure.
The Western MIC is out for more money while the Russian MIC is fighting for its life - if the West topples Putin and dismembers Russia, the entire weapons infrastructure there will be the first thing to be dismantled (with the choicest pieces being boxed up and sent to Tel Aviv of course).
The Western MIC is so arrogant that they don't realize their survival is also on the line, which is the crux of the danger we are in.
why is it suspect? both sides are leveraging their biggest items in the inventory. their militaries
you yourself state that "The Western MIC is out for more money...". where is the profit in nuclear armageddon?
nothing about Russia is "fighting for it's life", including the Russian MIC. imo the proper term would be "fighting for relevancy"
further, Russia has already been "dismembered". Finland, the Balts, Ukraine, BeloRussia, all historical Russias, (plural) of the Tsar of All Russias and the Soviet Union are out, including the satellites
as a reminder, the whole thing is about territories that are important to Russia in order to project power elsewhere, through warm water port access (Sevastopol and Crimea), to places like Syria, Cyprus, Iran, etc
Russia does not want to be downgraded to a minor power. Russia wants to keep Great Power status. Absolutely nothing new under this sun
this is a far cry from "fighting for your life", and so resorting to a nuclear armageddon. You can't ski in Sochi and have a bath in Crimea if you push that button
inversely, even if you topple Putin... the next leader would not have a very different position
IMHO somehow in the back of your mind you see this as an exercise in sanity with goals and valid reasoning-----Many others would see this as insanity with no goals and no valid reasoning--- I would argue all bets are off---just a bunch of eye gouging and ear biteing and a lot of screaming of hysterical hate--till one goes down for the count. ---just saying--It won't end well.
in the back of your mind you see this as an exercise in sanity with goals and valid reasoning
Exactly, and the best laugh is to argue along such sanity
and at the same time completely rule out that some too intelligent psychopaths on the top might believe they can do a large scale conventional war without it going nuclear (or even worse feel well protected by their missile defense.)
I am describing the thing as I see it, in a frame that explains one thousand low-level conflicts up to higher-level conflicts like Korea and VietNam
for some reason rationales are confused with sanity, here. as a reminder, a psychopath can be fully rational while being completely insane... and still act rational
in fact, full, complete, singleminded profit orientation - like the one pursued by megacorporations - fits this description
war is another typical human pursuit that fits. it is always following it's own internal logic
I can't help if your thought models don't fit to the human realities and you refuse to adjust them
seriously, it's a question of wanting to understand what humans are and do or putting your head in the sand and declaring the world as mad, mad, mad
Actually, the Roman/Byzantium v. Persian border dispute lasted seven centuries- not three.
+1 I was thinking of the three centuries without staged invasions and counter-invasions, but yes
I really wish I had your optimism. We often project ourselves onto others and I can see that you're a rational, reasonable, decent human being. So it is not surprising that you expect others to be the same. You're right that we have financed ourselves out of a major war, but that never stopped other nations in history from plundering and cajoling its citizens to cough up and sacrifice themselves "for the greater good". Where the reserve currency is concerned, there does not seem to be any limits to its ability print or make the citizens of other nations share the burden of its debts.
As for me, I would much rather think of the MIC on both sides as led by reasonable, pragmatic people, just as you do, but knowing how very very close we all came to nuclear armageddon in the 20th century when we had decent intelligent men in key positions at just the right moment to save us, and looking at the idiocracy now run by criminals of all kinds, you'll have to understand my pessimism.
I don't know why we don't swear at each other more often. :). But then again, I have a soft spot for reasonable people with differing views. How else am I going to learn anything worthwhile? :). As for junking, I stopped prostituting my posts for popularity long ago because honest opinions are the most valuable, and considering the warmongering psychos and trolls that infest this site every now and then, I am almost glad when I upset one of them enough to get a down vote.
Thanks YHC, I share your general take on the chances of us taking a ride on the Peace Train to 2100. I'm currently listening to the nuclear armed maggot terrorist from Israel shit-talking about how Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons, terrorism and genocide, whilst it addresses a room full of thoroughly corrupt and insane nuclear-armed zionist terrorists. The chamber of MIC CEOs are giving standing-ovations as per the script. It's heady inspirational stuff.
Hey mate. Just saw your post. I might look at it later but quite frankly I couldn't stomach Netenyahu and the morons in congress right now. I'm heading for the pub.
Good plan. Don't bother to look at the Nuttyahoo freak show, you'll just puke up perfectly good ale. Have some fun.
low intensity always gain intensity. that's the problem
europeans do not want to let it established for years in a country where football teams often come into eu championship... this has a serious EU inside political issue.
France forces are pretty divided: half them are in foreign countries doing some shit and the other in France soil to protect "sensitive" site against eventual terrorist...
and 80% of total got wages not paid in time....
I back checked my math to be sure.
That's a 1 to 1 ratio trainer to trainee.
Day 1:
Trainer: "Stand back and watch how I kill Russians!"
It looks like US Serfs will just have to sit around and wait to get Nuked.
Hey! Where are all the Peace Protestors who were around for the Iraq Wars??
Where is Cindy Shehan? Joan Baez? Blob Dylan? Cher?
Where is Sean Penis and Danny Blubber?
No time for that. It's big bouncy ballz bracket season.
"Hey! Where are all the Peace Protestors who were around for the Iraq Wars??"
Indeed. Good point.
Bring back the draft, and you will see a re-birth of the peace movement.
Way to go, Team USA, as lead by our dimwitted military and brilliant leadership! Keep this up and we will all be glowing in the dark here soon!
"Hey! Where are all the Peace Protestors who were around for the Iraq Wars??"
YOU tell us. Where are they now?
Where are the Occupy Wall Streeters?
(how many here Bitched about Bankers and then called OWS "dirty hippies" or something like that?)
YOU tell me. Where is everyone? Where is the opposition to ANYTHING aside from Bundy ranch and a few mocked minutemen at the border?
The systems have been put into place and effected to neuter that aspect of american tradition.
You won't see their like again until the Hunger settles on us all or until Putin's set one off or until the anti-christ rips off his business suit
It's kind of hard to be an active, awake and aware, militant when you actually HAVE a private sector job. There's too many fucking parasites to support, no time paid time off for political activities, and government hand-outs would never be available to an active militant...other than lead.
Those in my frame of mind are doing their best to be ready to hunker down until it all collapses, there's no funding for the war machine or protection to the elite. It's at that point, as Gerald Celente says, "That those with nothing left to lose, lose it."
"until the anti-christ rips off his business suit"
That is anti-ceramic to refer to Bibi like this.
The money's being used to fly the Israeli warmonger to DC so as to provoke BHO regarding Iran.
That's easy,,,George Soros wants the US to take over Ukraine, so he is not funding any protests against our involvement.
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You lucky bastard. I'm jealous.
Getting ass fucked by colored boys till your ears leak is no way to make a living sweetheart.
So you finally got promoted?
Nope, still beneath you.
What could possibly go wrong?
Works very well for triggering a much larger conflict. Proven method by now. The yanks want war, so much is certain. What gets the population screaming with rage more than a few dead us-service personel 'viciously attacked while doing peacefull work".
During the cold war is was policy to get us troops as near to the border as a 'tripwire' in case of an attack. After all, no sane us citizin (in those days) wanted to get involved in an other war in that crazy old Europe.
Except since then the false flag has been perfected. Those trip wires can be killed any time, any where - at the sociopath's choosing.
The russians have a tough decision to make. Get their troops in place before the trip wires arrive, or risk not being able to go in. If I were Putin, I'd go full scale into Crimea to protect the citizens there. Let the US/Nato have the worthless bankrupt ukraine.
They were all militarily insignificant in the past and they ended in failed states. This time they are taking on a military super power armed to the teeth with nukes. US hubris at its finest.
Dmitry Orlov - http://cluborlov.blogspot.ca/2015/03/financial-collapse-leads-to-war.htm...
Because sending a handful of advisors to a war torn country has worked so well in the past.
Whoa!! Putin's gonna get on his bear and invade Alaska! Let's put all the failed Lockheed projects back on the table! Because moar war!!
Is it a violation of the 0h racial discrimination policy to say any US national guard member that goes to Ukraine is a dumbass?
Best and final installation of The Expendables: Dumbass in Donbas. All those worn out heroes finnaly find their caskets.
Here we go. Stupid sending soldiers even for a so called support mission. Just keep using CIA and blackwater types if you are hell bent on opposing Russia there. I would rather they just supplied better weapons than put any US troops on the ground.