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As Greek Default Fears Return, Government Considers "Borrowing" Pensions To Repay IMF
Greek short-term default risk jumped over 300bps today putting the odds of a restructuring at 50-50 within the next year as the warnings we issued last week with regard Greece's imminent default on its IMF loan loom. Seeking to reassure its lenders (and avoid yet more capital flight), Reuters reports the Greek government said it was "exploring solutions," including delaying payments to suppliers or try to raise up to 3 billion euros by borrowing from state entities such as pension funds.
As Reuters reports, Athens is running out of options to fund itself despite striking a deal with the euro zone in February to extend its bailout by four months. Faced with a steep fall in revenues, it is expected to run out of cash by the end of March, possibly sooner.
"The Greek government has been exploring solutions ... to ensure there won't be a single problem with repaying the IMF loan, or its funding obligations in March," Government Spokesman Gabriel Sakellaridis told Greek radio.
So far, Athens's other funding options have stumbled upon problems. Transferring 1.9 billion euros worth of profits the European Central Bank made on buying Greek bonds will not be allowed until Greece has completed promised reforms.
Another option is the issuance of additional Treasury bills, but Athens's EU/IMF lenders have set a 15 billion euro cap on such debt and it has already been reached.
On Wednesday, Athens will go ahead with a regular six-month T-bill auction of 875 million euros to refinance a maturing issue, in a sale that will be closely watched as the government faces a possible funding gap.
When asked if Greece could cover its liquidity needs without issuing more T-bills or receiving the ECB profits, a finance ministry official said Athens had "alternatives", without specifying the options at hand.
Athens could save money by delaying payments to suppliers or try to raise up to 3 billion euros by borrowing from state entities such as pension funds though the government may already have used up part of this, a source has told Reuters.
Of course, this public pension fund 'cash' will all be repaid when Greece returns to growth and pays down its debt...
We are sure the Greek people will be enthused when they find out what the 'radical left' has in store for their funds...
* * *
The Greek banking index fell nearly 10 percent, while lenders National Bank of Greece, Piraeus Bank and Alpha Bank fell 10.0 to 11.8 percent to feature among the top decliners.
"The fears about a possible default for Greece are certainly not completely off the table," Gerhard Schwarz, head of equity strategy at Baader Bank in Munich, said.
Greek bank stocks (and bonds) are making it very clear that Greece's problems are over... now down hard from the pre-deal levels...
* * *
Still none of that matters - ECB QE is about to start and the world has loaded up...
Charts: Bloomberg
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Let's see, stiff your suppliers but they will keep supplying you free of charge because they care about you. Then grab the pension funds (oh, yeah, you'll pay them back later) just to keep the IMF happy. That is definitely a long term solution.
Somewhere in Heaven, George Carlin is jumping up and down on a cloud screaming "See! SEE! I told you! I TOLD YOU!"
A new definition of absurdity.
How effective is the propaganda in Greece that leaving the Euro is not seen as a viable and preferable alternative? It's clear that's the solution. Not one more cent should be the rallying cry.
I don't think that there is a solution for Greece. Only bad options among worse options.
Why not do the thing that Geithner planned, minting a 1B coin. As in the US, local finmin's have the minting power. Greeks, just send a few 1B € coins to IMF, and they will be happy! /sarc off
If BBBBBaraaaaaaaack could, he would, right now. Don't kid yourself.
Coming soon to the USSA
Invested pension funds? And its GONE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nVk25ZvTkU
No, Obama will not do it and there is no could here. If he wanted to mint a damn coin with a denominated value of $100 trillion, Obama could do it. Yet he hasn't. Why would that be?
SeanJKerrigan wrote "How effective is the propaganda in Greece that leaving the Euro is not seen as a viable and preferable alternative? It's clear that's the solution. Not one more cent should be the rallying cry."
because a new Drachma would be anyway devalued, by the current Radical Socialist government of Greece? I find it hilarious how many ZH commenters moan about devaluation of the currencies they use, while asking for the devaluation of currencies they don't use
ZH: full of Austrian School economics comments... except when the EUR is involved, where then NeoKeynesian commentary reigns supreme
would you default now on debt that does not pay interest until 2023 and which has time to be restructured many times until then?
bah. this whole Greek debt thing is only a projection of other issues. the real issue in Greece is if they are going to balance their budget or not. it's a question of political will
Ghordo -
If Greece stays in the EUR its painful.
If Greece leaves the EUR its painful.
The question however remains, which is more painful.
I look at it like this, without a doubt Greece remaining in the EUR is better for Greece in the short run. Your talk about balanced budgets and reform is great in your Brussels confrence room, but the fact of the matter remains -- Greece will never ever be able to meaningfully reform to keep up with Italy, Spain or Portugal -- much less German or the Netherlands. Given that -- the best Greece can hope for under the EUR is the status quo. I don't think things can get much worse there under the EUR than they are now.
The other side of this is a GREXIT. I have no doubt a GREXIT would be like a financial nuclear bomb going off in Stygmata Square. I can imagine life in Greece would get worse, by every reasonable metric for a period of time, and people very well might long for the gool'ol days when they had the EUR back in 2014. However, with a GREXIT, they have the possability, however slight, to improve upon their current condition.
Here is where the debate, in my opinion lies with Greece. Do they stick with what they have, or take a change on improving upon their situation. They could fail, and beg the Turks to take them back, or they could become the Olive exporting tourist destination they are designed to be in the current econom.y
What say you?
Hi Haus, at least I see that you would, if you were the PM of Greece, see that staying is better... in the short run. And in the medium term, I'd be happy to advice you on how to prepare for a new currency
But then again, for what purpose exactly? Because devaluation is just another kind of default, and one that hits your people first and hardest
(del)
in the long term... I can't see how we will be able to continue any kind of non-budget balancing... in the whole world. As a reminder, this provisional state in which we are started in 1971. Only because it lasted two short generations it does not mean it will last forever... because of the utter lack of moderation of a certain country, burning the candle at both ends and in the middle, too
Turkey? I remember how painful even travelling was, at the borders between Turkey and Greece. Both countries have done a lot to improve their relations, but Greece going back to Turkey? no way
GreXit-the-financial-nuclear-bomb? After so many years? As a reminder, only 40% of GDP equivalent of Greek sovereign debt is on the "markets", the rest has been bought off by the european partner countries. This severely limits the amount of CDS still sloshing around like the financial mines they are, and it's an old danger, meaning lots of precautions have been taken... hence the German, Portuguese, Spanish, Irish, Dutch, Finnish, etc. stance
I remember an older Greece where in open secret lots of people hated their government, and wished it would gain some less corrupt governance... beginning with budget discipline. Whenever I visit again, which is something like twice a year, this feeling is still there under the currents of the newer thoughts
this is the chance, despite of a Radical Socialist party at the helm
don't get me wrong, I support Tsipras and Varoufakis when they want to keep some of those industries that are currently scheduled for privatization. A tourist-destination only is bad advice, typical of IMF technocrats that want only short-term improvements, and care nothing about the longer term. But they have to improve their competitiveness
one sentence of yours, you probably already know I disagree with: "Greece will never ever be able to meaningfully reform to keep up with Italy, Spain or Portugal -- much less German or the Netherlands". it's historically completely unsound. in fact, if you would travel intensively as I do in Asia and the Middle East, I think you would revise your opinion. You know where I did find out, of all places? Malaysia. The greatest productivity game changer is something very strange: Air Conditioning
Put a decently educated worker out of every decent culture that has not been splintered into strange sub-cultures mired into political dependency, switch on the AirCon and you get productivity. That's the real lesson of this giant NeoLiberal current experiment that is globalization version two
Greeks are not different, in this. The Islands still tick differently from the Mainland, and Athens is something else altogether, but whatever they are, Greeks aren't stupid. The current government insists on not getting squeezed in the IMF mould. Kudos for doing that. The Greek State is still aching about the budget thing, but it has to be reformed in any case
exiting the EUR, while it would immensely please some in London (NY is quite clueless about it), is not the best option, now
politics is the art of the possible, and timing is the most important element in it. Rome has done reforms that my friends thought impossible, thirty years ago. So have Lisbon and Madrid (In fact, of the "Latin Club", the real lagger-behind is Paris). So can Athens, if it has the right incentives. As Plato wrote: "Necessity is the mother of invention"
the most sobering part of the visit of the new Greek government in Brussels was listening to Financial Ministers of countries that are twice as poor then Greece. Yes, Eastern Europeans. They are part of the clubs, too, and they have found their voice in the Great Concert of Europe. And their rationales were... compelling
so in short, I think Athens will "stick to it", and try to do the best out of a bad situation. and this, my young friend, is... life
sort of like the Greek version of hope and change and the total bullshit that was
All pensions, everywhere, will be stolen. First Japan, then the Euro states and finally the US. They're burning down the house to keep the fire going.
The question is only by whom? Where is the money going to? (only the 2nd most important question)
Exactly, the only questin that matters, where the fuck is all that QE, ZIRP, and interest on all this debt going?!?!
Time for either a refund or some serious retribution!
We know exactly where the pensions are going... at least right now. It's going to Apple, and other multi-nationals. Case in point: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-17/bernanke-saves-compani...
When most are finally drained to the point of collapse, any pensions or 401ks left will be used to support US government bonds.
Mystery solved.
I see all the pensions and 401ks going to great heights actually. the issue will be that the underlying paper that all of this is priced in will be worthless.
that which cannot be sustained, won't be, period.
Same as it ever was.
Yah, the problem with that staement is that it doesn't include timeframes. Saying it will all collapse because it must is not actionable information, therefore useless.
Are you kidding we the people wont do shit about any of this. What have we become. We just let these public sevants steal untill the cows come home and the most ludicrous thing is the salary we pay them to steal from us. STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES
Now you are just being a dumbass. Teachers, police officers, fireman and other public employees are not stealing anything from you. These neighbors of yours are paying taxes just like you, getting up and going to work everyday just like you and trying to survive this economic nightmare just like you.
Now, if you are going to try an argue that the chicken came before the egg, we can certainly play it that way. Maybe you are the one who is being supported since these public employees take their salaries, drive to your employer and buy a private product from that business.
correction politicians
I don't think teachers police, and firemen were mentioned. Public servants, more like regulators, councilmen, congressmen, senators, congressional aids, inspectors, the list goes forever. They produce nothing, They hang on the public teat, They are way over paid. The list goes on forever. I think you are the dumbass.
To keep the banks "solvent". Don't you know that the financial "industry" is the most important industry on the planet? It's what keeps the economy going and modern society glued together. Ohh, and they own the politicians running the show too. I mean, how can you steal everything owned by individuals and governments if the theft mechanism goes under?
It's goi g to fund GlobalFascism via The Global Criminal Oligarch Cabal Bankster Intelligence Crime Syndicate.
By whom? Why, the holder of the debt, a.k.a Banksters!
US pensions have been subject to an ongoing state of theft for at least 2 decades now.
Crimerica's third largest city has $20 billion in unfunded pension liabilities .... so Moody's cuts them to 2 steps above junk. Can't steal what is not even there.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/chicago-credit-rating-cut-moodys-154000551.html?l=1
When there is nothing left to grab, then comes private confiscation. Outlaw anything of value or tax the shit out of it. Death by Bunga Bunga.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u06DpcFXc4U
And in Spain the biggest pension fund has put at least 90% of the money to buying Spanish debt acting as last resort buyer. Well done.
Why am I not surprised? Tsipras and Varoufakis are now where lefties usually like to be: On their knees being fucked. Libtard traitor scum.
Solution? Governments are and always have been highly organized bands of thieves.
That is the reality that most people can't confront. It runs contrary to their moral perceptions. It's cognitive dissonance.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/magazine/13Psychology-t.html?pagewante...
Reasoning and Rationalizing
It’s not just the content of our moral judgments that is often questionable, but the way we arrive at them. We like to think that when we have a conviction, there are good reasons that drove us to adopt it. That is why an older approach to moral psychology, led by Jean Piaget and Lawrence Kohlberg, tried to document the lines of reasoning that guided people to moral conclusions. But consider these situations, originally devised by the psychologist Jonathan Haidt:
Julie is traveling in France on summer vacation from college with her brother Mark. One night they decide that it would be interesting and fun if they tried making love. Julie was already taking birth-control pills, but Mark uses a condom, too, just to be safe. They both enjoy the sex but decide not to do it again. They keep the night as a special secret, which makes them feel closer to each other. What do you think about that — was it O.K. for them to make love?
A woman is cleaning out her closet and she finds her old American flag. She doesn’t want the flag anymore, so she cuts it up into pieces and uses the rags to clean her bathroom.
A family’s dog is killed by a car in front of their house. They heard that dog meat was delicious, so they cut up the dog’s body and cook it and eat it for dinner.
Most people immediately declare that these acts are wrong and then grope to justify why they are wrong. It’s not so easy. In the case of Julie and Mark, people raise the possibility of children with birth defects, but they are reminded that the couple were diligent about contraception. They suggest that the siblings will be emotionally hurt, but the story makes it clear that they weren’t. They submit that the act would offend the community, but then recall that it was kept a secret. Eventually many people admit, “I don’t know, I can’t explain it, I just know it’s wrong.” People don’t generally engage in moral reasoning, Haidt argues, but moral rationalization: they begin with the conclusion, coughed up by an unconscious emotion, and then work backward to a plausible justification.
Sounds like something Øsurper would say:
Borrow
everyone in Greece contributing to their pension know they will never see any, so who cares really
Never, and I mean never take your fat Greek @ss on YouTube and say you're gonna spit in a Schnitzel sandwich. It never ends well.
Or we could cut government spending....... LOL
That's what they're doing by grabbing the pensions.
Greeks worried about their pensions??? If you don't hold it, you don't own it.
and "hold(ing) it" is only as good as the man behind the rifle. They WILL resort to force when the time comes.
This is why coin hoards are found all over the English countryside. Roman soldiers sacked cities looking for payment. I would count on being out rifled, if I were you. Just don't be outsmarted.
One good thing about the US Govt. Thrift Savings Plan is you can borrow against it -- kind of like an adjunct to a retirement savings plan; it has value that you can borrow from (and buy PMs maybe). It's all IOUs anyway, might as well convert some of it to PMs for safe keeping, and pay off the loan whenever -- and doesn't inflation wipe out all debts anyway?
The future of the EU in one country.........
Cant resist-----"And-- its gone"
Grexit now. Kick IMF out of Greece.
Who are you kidding. Typical democracy in action. Say anything to get elected; do anything after elected. Bunch of lying scumbag polititions; typical the world over.
The newly elected leaders of Greece must act quickly to hand over as much as possible to their true bosses before the Greek voters force them out. They really did a good job of fooling the public and the negotiations were just theater.
Traitors were elected and they are working fast to destroy Greece as a soverign country. Everything will be signed over if they are given the time to do so. I am afraid it will be too late by the time the public is pushed into action.
If I want to discredit the Greek goverment I would do what with my global MM?
Who really fucking cares about Greece? DOW racing to 19,000 baby!
and then 20 and then 36.. maybe 50..
Yes, and then how much will the SNAP program cost us (unemployed people buying food etc.)?
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
We'll all eventually be rich and this whole "problem" will be a fond memory.
Ahahahahaha...
Pensioners should consider "borrowing" some flesh from those bankers and financiers...
The fuckers are still being given money for free (ZIRP), why can't everyone else get the same deal?
Fuck em. At the end of the day the fucking underlying paper all those pensions are priced in will be worthless anyway.
Time for a refund or retribution motherfuckers....
All done by design, all done by Agenda. Coming soon to a Criminal Fraud UNITED STATES, CORP. INC. pension / 401k.
Rood thing the Hreek's voted in that hope and change.
My wife quit her job 3 months ago , threw me out of the house and is now running her own part time business earning £3-5k a month selling off all my belongings.
This is the way Governments and Central Banks are running the every economy in the world.
Question is, will she find another husband in time?
Is there a list of items to bid on?
Yes RC you'll find details at www.kick'em-out.fuckme
A franchise of this model is in the planning. For generous discounts on selected items do not use me as a reference.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Hey Greeks!
How do ya like that bail in?
been happening 5 years already, so whats new
How long before they lynch SYRIZA members? These guys are fucking the Greeks worse than the previous Goldman Sachs guy. I didn't think that was possible.
What I truly do not understand is what Styriza were thinking. Did they know their election promises were worthless and made them just to get power or did they really believe that they could just walk away from their debts? Or is there some other explanation?
If I'm reading this correctly, Greek pensions are already ancient history.
I would feel sorry for them, But they did vote in the socialists on their own accord. Good job greece good job.
Greece is just a test kitchen now...to see how things work out....or dont...
Borrowing. They may still pay you back with confetti. Ha! Take that in the ass you Greeks!
If it was so easy to just return to growth and earn profits, Radio Shack would not have filed for bankruptcy.
Capitalism is tough, especially when you do not actually have it.
Yeah, they're just going to "borrow" the pension funds the way Nixon "temporarily" closed the gold window. Or how the progressive income tax was only for the wealthy. Or that it would never go above 3%....
Well, it's worked so well for social security here in the states... I'm sure when QE 15 is done, my future social security check will allow for a Starbucks "Grande" Latte (is that the medium one?). I'll probably have to pony up to get the 20 ounce..
WOW Greece; New boss just like the Old boss.
Time to storm the castle.
If you've been responsible and saved up a nice pension for retirement, I think there is a good chance those of us who did so are going to end up screwed.
I agree, but what can you do? If I take mine out in one go I'll pay close to 50% tax on it. Broadly the same in most Western countries.
You really have to ask yourself what EXACTLY the economic hit men offered to the Greek "leadership" to completely fold from the elected mandate to default.
Is the promise of screwing teenage boys that big of an incentive?
Surely a little money and coke under the table is not enough to take your whole Brussels delegation to the mosh pit.
Stunning reversal in fortune for the Greeks.
Hilarious to think the whole world wants a new safe harbor for off-shore banking and yet black-sheep polities like Greece, Cyprus, Albania and Russia can't get it together to capture that market.
The Greeks deserve exactly what is coming to them.
The first rule in these "negotiations" is to stop flying into the enemy's camp for talks.
Make those German banksters run an Athens' gauntlet to make the point.
Another Government wealth redistrubution bail-in, hang them. Cyprus-style confiscations in motion.
Who are these Greek "People" ?
The Greeks like getting robbed and assulted by the banksters.
So the Greek people voted in the bastards that will rape them up the ass even more, and "borrow" from their already reduced pensions. The voted in the thieves that will steal even the last crumb on the table.
Somewhere, George Carlin is laughing his ass off.
Greek citizens could be worse off, ISIS isn't running around slaughtering everyone. As the economy further caves there will be groups of very bad people circulating the poor and innocent.
I cashed out my pension. No way they are getting their hands on it. There was no chance it will be able to pay what's promised when it is 30% underfunded and based on 8% continuing returns. Any pot of money is free game for these theives now.
The Greek government should not give this money to anyone. They are clearly already corrupted even to consider it. Show some backbone guys..... .
Greece is nothing more then an experiment being conducted on the sheeple to see how much they will endure the pain. The experiment will be concluded when the Greeks riot big time and over throw their government or continue down the road for decades.
This is of course coming to all countries as the oligarchs and the politicians learn from these experiments being conducted in small countries that really cannot do much. Every industrialized modern country on this planet will see this in time. NWO is coming and those in charge are just now warming up. Once the entire population is on the government handout programs they are basically fucked. This is what the people do not get. So they fuck their countrie's middle classes they do not care in the end all will work for the government. Money will not matter anymore once this accomplished as everyone will finally be equal in the eyes of our over lords. Social justice will be complete with the exception of culling the herds of people around the world.
Of course a world war could come first then all of this will play out. After all less people on the planet means less to subjegate.
"Once the entire population is on the government handout programs they are basically fucked. "
Cloward-Piven Strategy in a nutshell. Although they didn't put it quite like that!
Yesterday a few you tsk tsked when I said fock the Greeks
What sort of Fight The Power Leftists are Tsirpussy and Whatthefackus if they steal from pensions to pay their Euro masters
Hah and hah
Next....
Syriza not ready for prime time. Embarassing considering all their bravado and tough talk dur ng their first week in which office
Heinous cowards
Take pensions to pay for Bankster FRAUD. How's that going to work out?
Golden Dawn
Fifty foot a rope might come in handy. Voting not so much.
Assuming there is validity in this article..I have two questions to ask please!!
QUESTION1: What is wrong with that? I once knew of a Nation that save it self by collecting pennies from its citizens.
QUESTION2:Is it better to pay it with more borrowed money?
Calm down people...Varoufakis has this under control. These are all "smoke bombs"...did you notice how he is not talking about a "haircut" anymore? That's because the Germans will start talking about it soon !