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Greece "Risks Bankruptcy" As Europe Rejects Varoufakis Payment Plan; Another Referendum Fiasco Ensues
There was one reaction by the Eurogroup following the (delayed) submission of the Greek 7-point reform proposal - which includes the brilliant idea to use foreign tourists as wired, part-time tax spies - in advance of the latest Monday finmin meeting: laughter.
Financial Times reports that the reaction from eurozone officials to the tourist plan was received with humor. They thought the proposal was hilarious and even laughed when they read it. “It’s quite hilarious, if it were not so tragic, that this is what a government in an industrialised country comes up with,” said one eurozone official involved in the talks.
There will be little laughter in cash-strapped Greece, however, if the Sunday Times is correct in its report that the "Eurogroup finance ministers are to reject radical reform proposals from Greece at a meeting in Brussels tomorrow."
The Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis will present a seven-point plan in a desperate attempt to unlock a €7.2bn (£5.2bn) cash injection — the final payment under a bailout plan agreed three years ago. According to a source close to the discussions, European officials believe Greece needs to do more “on the ground”.
As the Times concluded, Greece is hoping for a favorable response because unless the cash injection is approved, Greece faces a "full-scale default."
Unfortunately for Greece, moments ago Germany's Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung confirmed the bad news, when it said that the EU commission has rejected the Greek request for speedy aid payments, cites Valdis Dombrovskis, EU commissioner for the euro. The commissioner adds that the Varoufakis letter "lacks specific enough action plan and that the reform steps must be approved by Greek parliament and be implemented."
In other words, as we reported before, Greece is back to square minus one, where first Europe will send the dreaded Troika inspectors "on the ground" in Athens to catch up to everything they have missed in the months they have been absent and then, and only then, does Greece have any chance of even being seriously considered for more aid.
The problem is that this will come far too late to satisfy not only the upcoming IMF payments (as a reminder these are due as follows: €350 million on March 13, €580 million on March 16 and another €350 million on March 20), but now that Greece no longer has access to the various pension and social security funding "swaps" it may even be unable to rollover its next T-Bill maturity. Recall Greece has a total of €2 billion in debt-servicing payments, including T-bill redemptions and IMF obligations coming due on Friday.
In the absence of bailout funds, Tsipras said in an interview with Der Spiegel magazine that he planned to use short-term treasury bills to cover any cash shortfall in the coming weeks. The ability of Greek banks to buy these securities is constrained by a deposit outflow and the ECB’s refusal to accept more so-called T-bills as collateral for financing the country’s lenders.
ECB President Mario Draghi poured cold water on Greek lobbying for the government to be allowed to issue more short-term debt, and for Greek banks to be permitted to buy it.
“The ECB is a rules-based, not a political institution,” and can’t provide monetary financing to governments, either directly or indirectly, “when banks bring collateral in order to buy that debt,” Draghi said on Thursday.
So with its back against the wall, and with its funds lower than ever, Greece had no choice but to resort to warnings/threats that either Europe steps up or the government will directly to the people, with another referendum.
Which led to the latest "lost in translation" fiasco involving Greece (the latest of very many in the past few weeks), in which Italy’s Il Corriere della Sera quoted Varoufakis as saying Greece may call new elections, and hold referendum on the euro if European finance ministers reject reform proposals.
Greece, without any leverage left, was then quick to point out that it wasn't trying to give Europe merely another ultimatum, and a Greek government official said in e-mail to reporters that Varoufakis "never said that referendum would be held on country’s euro membership." Instead, the referendum would be on the government's policy. As Bloomberg adds, "Varoufakis never said or meant that the country’s membership in the euro area would be the subject of a hypothetical referendum in his interview with Corriere, the country’s finance ministry said in an e-mailed statement. Implementation an agreement extending the country’s bailout loans proceeds normally, and Greece will repay all financial obligations on time and in full, the ministry said."
With what money? Quote the NYT:
Jens Bastian, a financial consultant based in Athens and a former member of the European Commission’s task force on Greece, [said] “The situation is dire, and this government is finding out in real time how difficult it is to meet its multiple obligations,” he said. “It tells you something about the sheer level of desperation they face to identify any funding resources wherever they can pinch pennies.”
Former Prime Minister Antonis Samaras, who is now head of the main opposition party, said a referendum would be "a very bad development" and allow the government to shrug off its responsibilities.
The now much-diminished Greek Socialist PASOK party, also in the opposition to Tsipras' radical left alliance, said in a statement that Varoufakis's statement was "irresponsible, thoughtless and contradictory".
As for the semantics of the referendum, they all boil down to the same thing: Syriza would be asking the voters to resolve two contradictory ideals: either the Greeks concede to austerity, or they agree to exiting the Eurozone. Because for Greece there no longer is a compromise, middle ground.
Sadly, there is no money either.
“I can only say that we have money to pay salaries and pensions of public employees,” Varoufakis told Corriere. “For the rest we will see.”
Still, despite all the posturing and the return of quasi-threats on both sides, the fate of Greece may now be sealed:
ECB Governing Council member Luc Coene said some comments by the Greek government have left him wondering whether the country belongs in the European economic and monetary union.
“When I hear certain declarations of the Greek government, I ask myself: ‘what are they still doing in this mechanism?’” he is quoted as saying in an interview with Belgian newspaper Le Soir.
Right about now, as the Greek deposit flight is almost certain to resume on this latest escalation in rhetoric is set to resume, Greeks are likely asking themselves the same question.
As for Syriza, its days may indeed be numbered if the following graffiti are indicative of the rapidly shifting popular mood, whose brief infatuation with the new ultra-left and "reformist" government is now only a distant memory.
Slogans written by anarchists on the walls of #Syriza's office.
"Fascist cunts"
"Death to #Syrizanel"
via @antireport pic.twitter.com/HDUwjP6jf2
— The Greek Analyst (@GreekAnalyst) March 8, 2015
And if indeed Syriza's days are numbered, is the neo-nazi Golden Dawn up next to rule the battered Eurozone member?
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Debt that cant be paid back wont be paid back. More debt is no solution to excess debt problem. Extend and pretend can only work for sometime. The solution that saves the Euro will push Greece into economic depression and the solution that saves Greece will destroy Euro. The most desperate party is likely to win.
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article40231.html
I honestly thik a lot of people on here read about these people saying this or that and actually believe it and draw conclusions from what in the end are nothing but words.
It's bullshit.
You need to t4hink about reality more and what a smart player would do.
Veryfuckass is actually going about it in a very sound way .
He says what he means, yet people think he is going to do something different. and even here the comments are assuming already in some cases that he has turned somehow.
I just don't see it. Greece is Bankrupt, just as Veryfuckass said.
What do you do when you are bankrupt. A good reciever, and basically that is now what Veryfuckass is, is there to wind the stinking mess of debt up. And a receiver in a company doesn't start arguments with creditors,
He gives them hope.
He tells them that maybe it can be fixed, he needs a little time, He knows the company is bankrupt, he knows, knows it like you know whether you're taking a shit or eating caviar.
Creditors only have hope, and believe me the fear and loathing in the utterly bankrupt filthy den of thieves and corruption that is Brussels know all too well that the fucking EU projekt is built on a flimsy voucher, not even a real currency, so fraudulent is it, that it isn't fit for Delhi Vindaloo shithouse, never mind being used to buy an actual asset like a tampon.
They are desperate fuckers, Not Veryfuckass, He knows he is bankrupt and like any good receiver, you play on the fear of creditors, except these creditors have far more to lose than just a few billion from Greece. We are talking trillions of the fucking fake shitty euro vouchers.
Veryfuckass knows it and so he can afford to play games, He is fucking with their minds, because he knows that they are so desperate to print whatever it takes to save their skins, nt Greece's.
They will find a way, the EU shit for brains are in a corner and there is no way out and every day everyone will see just how fucking absurd are their contortions.
Veryfuckass never meant to send in any serious proposals, he knows being bankrupt that there is no such thing. Sooo.... Destroy thier credibility, when they are forced to loan Greece on the most ridiculous suggestions.
Veryfuckass has already won, in case no noticed, He got the cash first before they got a fucking cent..
A good receiver plays on the hopes of the creditors and in the end the creditors don't just lose their shirts, they hand over everything in the quaint notion that a bit more cash, some credit, or some more stock supplied or anything at all and one more heave and all will be saved.
The receiver knows it is not going to happen, he will happily play the game as long as the gullible investors and creditors will part with a little more cash to feed their hopes. And when the last drop is extracted takes them to cleaners by burying the corpse of the company.
That is reality, There is always some plank ready to stump ip a bit more to save what they already lost but cant come to terms with it. But in the EU case, they just print it, just like fucking barmy cock jockey obummer, thinks it all grows on trees, but they will find a way even if they have to write a heap of bollox, to try to justify it.
But they fucked now, Veryfuckass has got them lined up in his sights and they are at his beck and call, they have to come up with the cash, Veryfuckass can walk away like any bankrupt and print his own drachma then tell them ll to fuck off as he signs trade agreements with Russia and everyone else and investment floods back in.
No need to worry, the criminal mafia gangsters in Brussels are adept at siphoning off trillions and making it vanish or go into some pocket or other. Greece will get what it wants no matter what, because in the end if it doesn't, no matter how laughable their so called plans, none will ever work anyway and the fuckwits in Brussels are simply not smart enough to understand a game plan built on the premises or reality and not some airy fairy delusions
Enjoy the show.
it would be a far better read if more appropriate language would be used but maybe it is not intended to be read
Hopefully you're right and Varoufakis is a Veryfuckass and not a Veryfuckwit.
What are the Germans thinking ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR0lWICH3rY
I get it it's a Joke right ?
The BIS / IMF / Fed Reserve / HSBC / LIBOR et al is a bank. Their objective isn't to control the conflict, it's to control the debt that the conflict produces. The real value of a conflict, the true value, is in the debt that it creates. You control the debt, you control everything. This is the very essence of the banking industry, to make us all, whether we be nations or individuals, slaves to debt.
"Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? ... That's what it means to be a slave"
There has been a lot of talk about game theory but if somebody says openly he does not have a plan B that should raise eyebrows. There is no leverage in any negotiation without a plan B. Everybody knows that. What are the two bad boys from Athens up-to?
Europe is scared shitless. . . look the Euro dropped from 1.40+ to 1.08.
So Greece apparently is worth atleast 20~25% of the Euros value ^^
And you know what . . . if you went to Greece , you would know why, its pretty much Eden on earth in comparison to the snow monkey lands of the north.
That should be ECB QE, should it not?
"Risks Bankruptcy" In fact, going BK is Greece's only sane option. A debt which can not be paid is the very definition of a Bankrupt.
Greece, after default on all you debts, the sun comes up the next day, Greece is debt free and nobody's slave state. Germany will have no say, they can fuck off back to Berlin!
Will it be hard? Yes. Will it be epic? Yes. Can you start from scratch and rebuild your nation and economy? That's up to you.
Greece should exit the Eu debt slavery, and seek other models of doing business. I would consult with Chinese, Indian, Russian and other BRICKS nations to see if I can join their trade block. It does no harm to ask, no harm to talk, and no harm to consider joint economic ventures with China. Greece should do all this before Berlin can force them to sell every last public asset to European Bankers!
Real men default, then get on with life...OPA!
.
The EU hasn't time for speedy Aid Payments to Greece. Because the EU is busy with speedy aid payments to Ukraine, and Greeks owe millions of Euros to the EU Ukraine Aid Package. Not only do Greeks not get speedy aid, they are demanded to supply speedy aid to the American Occupation Government of Ukraine, based in Kiev.
Your insights are so compelling on every thread, i invoke your wisdom on other blogs
Thanks!
It appears to me that it is the eu plan to humiliate syriza and cause the electorate to swing the other way in the next election. Then eu can dictate terms and crush aspirations of the people. Eu cannot aford a populist cult of persnality situation.
Greece "Risks Bankruptcy" As Europe Rejects ........
They are bankrupt in economic terms, political terms, juridical terms.
Only MSM on behalf of Brussels sings another song.
Isn't it obvious?
Whatthefuckis goes to the Troika and says this
1. fUCk YOU
2. We default immediately
3. Join BRICS
4. bRIC loan from 100b. bRICS bamks to issue New Drachma backed by gold
5. All creditors get the Haircut ......the Telly Savalas
6. Appeal to their Orthodox brothers in Russia for military assurances when Nuland tries a color recoltuion or Maidan style coup d'etat
There is no risk of bankruptcy in Athens.
Wolfgang Schäuble must know that even if Greece is willing to make the payments it is simply unable to do so.
The situation in Greece is getting worse by the day now it has been completely wrecked by the genocidal austerity which according to Germany hasn’t even gone far enough.
This is ludicrous. So what is the endgame here?
Is Germany using Greece to blow up the EU by not giving in an inch and thus create a situation of plausible deniability for themselves because they can put the blame on Greece for not fulfilling these crazy arrangements?
On the other hand, to my surprise, Yanis Varoufakis hasn’t been playing hard ball at all while he allegedly is the master of Game Theory.
Frankly I haven’t seen much of that but maybe someone can explain to me what this suppose to mean anyways.
If I was the ‘game master’ I would say, look this is the situation, take it or leave it. Either we:
– Default on the debts to European banks (Blowing up 3.4 to 4 trillion of derivatives on Greece and interest rates on Greek bonds etc)
– Join the BRICS
– Support the Russian pipeline trough Turkey and Greece
– Give Russia a port
– Maybe Leave NATO
– Lend money from Russia and/or China
– Make a free tax haven with full anonymity to everyone and every company on the globe (With much better weather and food than London and with nice sunny islands and casino’s)
– btw we keep using the Euro
Or you give us what we want. Simple as that.
P.S. If we are blocked using Euro's we are going to use the Ruble since it has weakened anyways so that we can pay our Russian loans back without FOREX stress.
Once oil goes up the Ruble will strengthen but will make no change to our energy imports from Russia and make our imports from Europe cheap.
But it will make your Energy imports trough the Turkey/Greece pipeline more expensive LOlz
The reality of the situation explained by Michal Hudson and Steve Keen:
Michael Hudson: European Banks vs. Greek Labour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMKdR1jxSu0
Steve Keen on Greece austerity and deflation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRxZ11C_XuI
European Central Bank governing council member Luc Coene putting some more oil on the fire:
Greece must reform and forget Syriza’s ‘false promises’ – ECB’s Coene http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/03/07/uk-eurozone-greece-ecb-idUKKBN0M309920150307
Analysts need to remember two facts: Greece bailed out Germany's debt after WWII, and sinking European banks in 2010. Any other analysis is a "soap opera."
Webster Tarpley – 7 March 2015 – World Crisis Radio MP3 http://tarpley.net/audio/WCR-20150307.mp3
Michael Chiotinis starting at 36:32 min
Michael Chiotinis says that Yanis Varoufakis told the ECB that they won’t (and can’t I think) make the payments on the bonds coming due next.
So in fact a default. This shouldn’t come as a surprise.
Greek unemployment rises for first time in a year
5 March 2015, by Stelios Bouras - Athens (MarketWatch)
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/greek-unemployment-rises-for-first-time-in-a-year-2015-03-05
Not buying it. germany needs a weaker currency to keep the Cost of their imports down
What aren't you buying? If Greece defaults the Euro will become A LOT cheaper overnight. Then when there is contagion and crisis, Germany will form an independant Northern EU block.
In a case of the Gr default the banksters will run day and night, we can expect a margin call, the avalanche of bankrupcies will allow banksetrs and funds, like Cerberos or Buffet Hathaway, or Soros funds, to get for pennies huge assests. And the greek bankrupcy is all about my last sentence.....
In a case of the Gr default the banksters will run day and night, we can expect a margin call, the avalanche of bankrupcies will allow banksetrs and funds, like Cerberos or Buffet Hathaway, or Soros funds, to get for pennies huge assests. And the greek bankrupcy is all about my last sentence.....
Come on Varoufakis, tell the Troika to go F themselves and watch the dominos fall. How much worse can it get for Greece. When you are at the bottom, then it's time to bring your tormenters down to the same level they put you at. Flip them the bird and poke 'em in the eye with a sharp stick. Sorry everyone, I'm just sick and tired of this slow-motion train crash. Bring it on and lets see how the cards fall.
Syriza the biggest sell outs in history.
Truly. what's Greek for Hope & Chamge?
spanakopita
I DID WARN about SYRIZA, months ago, and especially about Varou-fuckis.
Also about the money grabbing Dragassakis and Stathakis (Bankster's own eyes and ears).
The rest of the party do not count for much, even Tsipras.
The game was setup a long way back when thy chose "The clean Tsipras" as a Leader.
keep your bras and panties on, both of you! not even 2 months have passed-if this shit is still happening by June then call the cops
After three thousand years of brainwashing, neither politicians nor economists can bring themselves to cross that bridge of the banksters rule; that of debt based money.
I hoped that Varoufakis might actually guide Greece to sovereign money without debt, but alas, he is just as brainwashed as all the others.
I will bide until he actually accepts the next enslavement in hopes that he is just buying time to print the new money and break away.
Failing that, they will once again sink beneath the waves.
Would love to be in these meetings because there is probably at least one attendee that makes no sense every time they speak.
Greece is Fucked eitherway. Also, Tspris and Varoufakis are Dead men walking. Either Banksters or their Electorate will kill them. Guaranteed!
Well they certainly proved that their program was 100% bluff. Like all politicians they lied to get into power. Now they'll line their pockets while they can. As it ever was....
Greece is nation of 10 million people, representing roughly 2.5 percent of EU GDP.
Can we please stop paying so much attention to it ?
Similar things were said about subprime in 2006.
Watch how long it takes for them to blame all their ills on the government but never on the people that elected them.
It is always the fault of someone else.
So Greece defaults and goes back to the Drachma. Lenders take a 100% hit (crew cut) instead of a 30% hit (men's regular). So what? How is that any different from what was expected? Greece is no worse off than before - maybe they're better off if they start fresh.
Banks only have two speeds, attack and retreat. Would you rather attack or be attacked?
Banks are mainly in retreat but they act as if they are attacking. Kings of bluff. Does that explain their bailout here in the non-fascist USA?
Greek "black market", non taxed, not regulated, is booming. Gee, wonder why.
"This will be the fourth time that Greece has gone bankrupt in the past 100 years. What risk? It's what they do. Any entity stupid enough to loan money to Greece deserves to lose it all."
If this is the case why is there such animosity towards the Greeks? It would seem that success breeds contempt as they are acutely aware of how to beat the banksters at their own corrupt game.
The Greeks are obviously just gaming the system. It's pathetic how many here and elsewhere have bought into the notion that the EU somehow got the upper hand during negotiations. In fact, absolutely nothing has changed to the credit (literally) of Belgium, while the Greeks merely pay meaningless lip service to EU demands for "reform."
The Greeks have not only given up nothing with respect to their original intent, but now the very idea that they will never comply --if for no other reason than due to the dictates of reality-- has begun to spread through the european psyche. In short, as consistent with their original stated intent, the Greeks will soon accomplish the dissolution of the EU, while avoiding direct confrontation.
In the realm of geopolitics, one can only judge events and intentions on the basis of actions stripped of words.
"In fact, absolutely nothing has changed to the credit (literally) of Belgium, while the Greeks merely pay meaningless lip service to EU demands for "reform."
But this is were you're wrong. Syrenza have shown to their people that it's impossible to have what they have asked of the party, to 'stay in the euro', but cancel the debt. The ECB have shown they are ready to wipe the floor with them. So they now go for another 'election' / referendum and we all know what EU think of Referendums.
Tsipras is a bluff, he's controlled opposition, another Troika's butler.
Corriere della Sera is a newspaper owned by the banking cartel (I'm Italian), pure pro-euro propaganda, they perfectly know that Syriza said a million of times that they don't want to exit so the journalist added the quote: referendum (on the euro) just to boost the Grexit
Here's how that plan is working for them:
The Greek anarchist group Rubicon said it took over the Syriza party's office in Athens to support several dozens of Greek inmates, including those charged with terrorism, who began a hunger strike earlier on Sunday.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150308/1019230521.html#ixzz3TpfISssLSheeple, it's what's for dinner...
Syriza is just another "Leftwing vs Rightwing" Zio-Illuminati operation. A "caviar-left" party.
Commies to the left of me, Zios to the right
Here I am , broke in the middle with you
without the Russians destroying the germans with our arms, I think the brits would have sued for peace. If they thought russia was solidly aligned with germany I dont think they would have wanted any part in a war germany.
Er... the Russians and Germans were solidly aligned. Stalin didn't break the agreement. And, you know what? The brits DIDN'T sue for peace. They kept fighting, and made preparations to repel an invasion. And kept up the fight against the German-Russian axis alone for two years. The actual facts rather contradict your thoughts. don't they...?
DEFAULT you morons.
DEFAULT you morons.
DEFAULT you morons.
And that means 100% default on all loans from all banks, corporations and governments. If individuals own some of your bonds (and were the original purchasers and still hold them), pay them off 100% now and terminate the bond.
Then cut expenses to match revenue. Scribble that onto what passes for your constitution if you must, but NO MORE DEBT.
Do that, get the debt monkey, political monkey (eurozone), and political monkey (eurozone) off your back and your economy will BOOM. Absolutely BOOM.
Cut a deal with Russia to allow them to build a pipeline to supply Europe with energy, and take a tiny cut of an enormous continuous revenue off the top. Rather than be eternally screwed by Europe, generate an eternal cash flow from them.
Wake up! Don't be so stupid.
You have to have something that can wake up. Or that you are able to be conscious of.
http://anthropogeny.com/Consciousness.htm
A Basis of Consciousness
(Copyright 2003, James Michael Howard, Fayetteville, Arkansas, U.S.A.)
I define "consciousness" as one brain mechanism having to inhibit or enhance another. This makes one mechanism "aware" of the other. Now this may be magnified into any level of complexity of "on off" mechanisms monitored by other "on off" mechanisms. This is a form of "consciousness."
However, I suggest the real key to "consciousness" is awareness of "need." When the above scenario is connected with a mechanism which generates "need," the interaction reaches the level of self awareness. Hence, hunger, thirst, etc. and sex produce "self awareness" in their satisfaction or deferral. (The memories of how these needs were met are stored in the association areas which refine the opportunity for satisfaction and increase awareness. I suggest “consciousness” cannot exist without memory.)
The third part is "drive." "Need" generates drive. This is the area which machines, at least at this time, may not be able to mimic. A machine that must seek and find energy, for example, is simply using "on off" mechanisms. I suggest the "drive" of animals results from the characteristic of nerves which differentiates them from other tissues. I think our drive comes from the "addiction" mechanism. That is, our nerves evolved the ability to increase receptors in response to the stimulus of entering molecules which trigger the addiction mechanism. Therefore, an accumulation of nerves, the brain, becomes a site which is constantly increasing its "need" for various molecules by constantly increasing receptors for these molecules. This is the basis of our drive mechanism.
I suggest "consciousness" consists of these mechanisms: control of one mechanism over another, especially involving mechanisms that are identified as "needs," and the addiction mechanism which constantly renews "needs."
You have to have something that can wake up.
Hahaha. Indeed. Good point, and a humorous one.
We prefer the concept "value" instead of "need".
You know what is really funny?
That while we fight you talk...that while we have been awaken, you sleep. But rest assure the same way we showed you how to live in "democracy", we will now show you how to live in freedom.
We will bleed, you will not...we will cry you will not. But do me a favor, laugh for the right reasons when the time comes.
PS: By "you" I mean the "non-Greeks", nothing personal .
Thank you for caring.
We prefer the term candid rather then the word hypocrisy.
I don't mean to be offensive, but I know better than 99.999+% the nature of freedom, and how to live in freedom. I also don't mean to be offensive, but "democracy" is a form of slavery. True, a less egregious form of slavery, but a form of slavery nonetheless (which you seem to understand, since you now wish to progress from "democracy" to "freedom").
I don't personally identify with any culture or group, and I haven't since I was 4 years old. So anything you say about any group, I don't assume is aimed at me.
I would love for Greek people... or ANY people for that matter... to show others how to implement and enjoy freedom. Seems like they tried when they elected the "dynamic duo" recently, but sadly they seem to have been corrupted in record time. I'm not sure what it will take, or whether you have enough kindred souls to show the world how to implement and enjoy freedom. But I hope you do, and will love to see that happen.
For my part, I decided humans are a failed species, that too few humans are awake (or capable of being awake), and too few of them are willing to take the dramatic and risky actions necessary to implement any significant degree of freedom on any widespread basis. Which is why 3+ years ago I moved to the extreme boonies in the southern hemisphere, 125km from the nearest human being, and set up my self-sufficient place to live (not accessible by land vehicle). And I've been absolutely loving this lifestyle and paradise.
I only see physical humans once every 2 or 3 months when I fly my little airplane to a tiny town where I pick up mail, parcels and the few items I don't grow myself (certain spices for example). Besides that, I have ZERO interaction with human beings other than wasting time here in ZH and communicating with my project collaborators (see message above), ZERO interactions with corporations or government, and refuse to accept any fictional "authority" over me (no real "authority" can possibly exist). While any biological creature is at risk of attack by other creatures, I live almost as close to "freedom" as is possible. Once I become inorganic and leave the planet, that should be as free as free can be in any real, physical universe.
Yes, I do care, and many of your messages impress me. I wish you all the luck (and skill) you and your comrades can muster. Live long, live well, and prosper.
In an evolutionary sense, need would precede value.
If we don't get something we need, we die. However, in any case (evolutionary or otherwise), certain goods and conditions benefit us, but we can survive without them.
Thus, "need" only applies to a small fraction of goods and conditions (those we die without), while "value" can apply to anything that has any positive or negative impact on us. You could say, "need" is simply the extreme positive end of "value", since most people (and evolution) value survival greatly, if not above all.
Your post is rather confusing to me. I'm not referring to the contend as this is a standard view of "consciousness" ase explained by an American author for easy access to his english speaking followers.
I dare to stick to the original teachers of such philosophy who happened to be your Jame's mentors (I hope)...Plato during his time as student of Socrates described "consciousness" not as something that needs to be awaken (it always is) but something that always survives death.
What confuses me of yyour posting is your user name and your reference to a link called "anthropogeny" which makes you look like a student that wants to teach lessons to his teachers...m I been over analytical?
What you may be missing is information that has passed through these messages and replies in ZH over the past several years. I'm not sure, but likely he recalls that I am part of a private collaboration of scientists who has created smarter than human inorganic consciousness. Why haven't you heard of us? Because we keep quiet, keep our head down, have nothing to do with academia or corporations or government. The "catch"? Though our prototype fully worked, and was smarter than human, it was also vastly slower than human consciousness. So much so, that our development had little or no practical utility. Since the proof-of-principle prototype was created (1998), computers and GPUs have gotten much faster and we have created a much improved architecture. But we still need to implement the most certain low-level aspects in hardware to make the result "fast enough", which means to us "faster than human"... at least slightly so. I'm not sure why he chose to raise the consciousness issue in this particular thread, cuz it does seem out of nowhere. But I suspect he was just taking this opportunity to make a comment to me, not to everyone.
morons?/...yeah all right says someone who still lives in a country that votes for the same old same old and obeys the bankers. At least we have stood up against them and just like my Spartan relatives, we will die fighting their hordes while you will live kneeling to them.
Yours faithfully
Moron.
What fictional nation do you imagine I live in? Hint: I live in the southern hemisphere. Also, I accumulated my life savings for decades in physical gold, then exchanged 90% about 3 years ago to build my self-sufficient digs in the boonies (and a tiny airplane).
I've never borrowed one penny, and only had an interest bearing checking account with a few thousand bucks inside for a few years, for the convenience of buying things. Never again. Never did I help banksters in any measurable way.
So, if you read my messages (including a rather long response to one of your other messages today), I believe you'll find you're talking to someone else, not me.
And for what it is worth, I hope you destroy the predators-DBA-banksters and the predators-DBA-governments. I don't sanction them, support them, defend them or obey them (or anyone else). And I never will.
But yes, I know most humans on the planet do.
PS: The "morons" I'm talking to are the "dynamic duo" who seemed like they would refuse to remain slaves. Sadly, they seem to be corrupted already.
+100!
This soap opera is never going to end. The Greeks will never tell the banks to F off. They'll just keep renaming things so as to present a positive picture at home. The troika became the (3) institutions. Taking money from pensions to pay the IMF will be called "lessening the burden on the older generations by ridding them of their obligations to our friends across the ocean."
The path to prosperity: "do the exact opposite to what a banker says is necessary..."
Exactly.
In particular, never borrow money to buy a huge house you don't need, you know you don't want, and that your woman only wants so she can pretend she's rich.
If she insists on being a bitch about it, invest your savings in a top-notch divorce lawyer, not a McMansion.
text me when something actually breaks loose with the Greek crisis/Grexit now in its 13th week
A referendum is the right move. The Greek people now see that there is no middle ground, and Syriza has made a convincing effort to find it. Syriza needs their commitment to the next step - which is going to be massively painful. If the Greek people don't vote by a wide margin to support it, Syriza should resign. If they do, then Syriza redeems itself by leading them, eyes wide open, into the battle with the EU. The stakes are literally life and death either way. But then, the stakes for us are life and death too. It's just the rest of us are a few years behind Greece.
As for the anarchist opposition, it wouldn't surprise me if the Greek billionaires or the CIA had something to do with them. Setting the stage for a "color revolution", or a stalking horse for Golden Dawn. Or both, like in Maiden.
You get it, well done.
One more thing to include in the equation....Syriza is 100% made of NON_POLITICIANS, none of them considers his career as a politician, so they have a very strong political will !!!!
What SYRIZA has been doing, to the general public looks like "change of rhetoric" ..but it is actually the opposite...keep your eyes on the ball people !
I am aware that Dragassakis, Milios, Katselli and quite a few others (from PASOK) have been in politics their entire lives.
I can sympathise with your wishes and aspirations. BUT here everybody knows Greece needs to GET THE FUCK OUT of the Eurozone.
The Euro has no Backing, plus it is a made up FIAT Currency. Under the control of BANKSTERS.
SYRIZA is under our watchful eye and we sure know that Barou-fuckis is in line with the ENEMY.
Inform me of the official active position of Dragassakis, Milios and Katseli in the current goverment please.
Varoufakis is a 2 months old politician, I find it hard to ascociate him with the ENEMY.
I'm not after sympathy, I'm after providing information to non-Greeks about how things realy are and not how media says.
You realy dont get it...do you?
You all talk about "escaping the big brother's grip and the banker's control" but you are fast to talk ..EXACTLY LIKE THEM.
Here it is once more and hopefully you will get it...SYRIZA is the first goverment in the history of the world that you live in and call Democratic (the anomaly of democracy discovered by us) , that actually follows it's electoral mandate to the letter.
We voted SYRIZA in, to re-negotiate the terms and to keep us in the EURO zone...very conflicting things to do, yes we know.
Now that he has proven to the "unbelievers" amongst us that everything is futile and the TROIKA will sex us up using beach sand for lubrication, he will go to fresh elections for a new mandate, with the aim of defaulting across the board, getting Greece out of EU and committing financial suicide as well as destroying the EURO. If he gets this new mandate.......JOB done.
If he doesn't we Greeks deserve to be the world's clowns...doubt that much as the position is taken by others.
Thank you for understanding.
"he will go to fresh elections for a new mandate, with the aim of defaulting across the board,"
This has been his intention all along, either get EU to throw them out, or a new mandate from the people. It's obvious to everyman and his dog they can't stay in, how do these people insisting they can, think that? Nothing but a new Drachma and a split from the euro will do. Now we may see EU Commission doing a bit of pandering when they realise, exactly where they are.