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Money is stored labor. Labor is part of human life. To devalue money is to debase life.
THE ORIGINAL 90% SILVER ROMAN DENARIUS
DEBASED TO LESS THAN 5% SILVER - BY 350AD IT WAS WORTHLESS
STEALTHFLATION: An intractable economic condition that inevitably arises as excessively issued fiat based currency compulsively pursues non-productive wealth assets in a grossly over-leveraged economy, which has been artificially reflated by the Central Banking authorities in a misguided attempt to synthetically engineer growth via extreme monetization. (ie: Money Printing & Interest Rate Suppression)
This ill-advised monetary regime effectively prevents the real economy on the ground from realizing the normalization of free market forces necessary for genuine capital formation derived from productive actual earned savings, which is essential to generating legitimate and sustainable economic growth.
Under the imposition of StealthFlation, asset prices are inordinately inflated while the generative velocity of money is extinguished. Worse still, the seeds of hyperinflation are sown, as the compromised overtly financialized economy becomes increasingly dependent upon the interminable monetization.
It’s not about new Stock Market highs, nor the Dollar and U.S. Treasury safe haven
bid. It’s about tomorrow’s confidence in our monetary system……
Are you confident in the malignant malfunctioning monetization?
THEY WILL REFLATE
THERE WON'T BE GROWTH
THERE WILL BE BLOOD
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Then a car or a house or a couch is money too.
So having a private monopoly on creating money means you are god?
No, quite the opposite, it means that you are the devil...........:o)
That's why I used a small g.
I like joules of energy as a measurement of the coin. Give me a coin with a fixed measurable value. Its the buying power of the money that matters. Gold is barter and so is everything else that has a real perpose or use. One of the most interesting things about an energy coin is anyone can make it themselves. Rather than only the priests of fiat. IMO this would put both a top and a bottom on the value of both labor and the coin.
So if money is not a store of wealth or labor....what is? Aside from gold or silver which are another issue entirely, what goods can you buy/accumulate that will act as a store of value?
Apparently demons trade kittens..
Friends, Knowledge, Character.
interesting the less money is worth the more people want it, they prize it above all the things money can buy, the power and prestige it affords. just having money, or should we say a large number in front of the dollar sign is reason enough, when i was young there were not nearly as many things you could buy, and money did not matter so much, now there are many more things to buy, and money is all that matters.
" Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it becomes, marked: 'Account overdrawn.' ..."
Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
read the whole thing:
http://jim.com/money.htm
Ayn Rand lived on Social Security in her old age. Forced reallocation of wealth, into her hands. She was a hypocrite. Talk is cheap.
Spinone,
Any Rand was forced to pay into Social Security. Why shouldn't she draw it even over her objections to the Communistic program. It is not as if she were a parasite like many we have today who paid nothing into Social Security but reap unearned benefits. That is much like those who draw tax refunds under the Earned Income Benefits far above any income tax they paid.
theres nothing hypocritical about taking back from the thief who stole from you in the first place.
instead of day dreaming of a revolution that will never come as not part of a provocatuers setup, resistors and patriots should immediately quit all taxable activities as possible, get on as many gov handout programs as possible, have as many children as they can, and starve the system
the hardest part, not to lose sight of the ethics and morality necessary to exploit it for good and not succumb to the entitlement mentality.
clowerd piven envisioned the plan as a means to foment a revolt of marxist freeloaders. it could work just as well with an army of disciplined and moral patriots tired of being slaves to exploitation.
...and the 1st rock is thrown. /s
We all have our flaws but I do get what he saying. Also worth considering... The guy who throws the 2nd rock frequently does not throw it because the 1st rock hit him in the head. I paid into SS from 15 yrs to 38 and if it is still available when I qualify I will collect. Prolly be making monthly buys of the precious.
And your comment has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of that quote.
You know critic is really desperate when he makes an accusation of hypocrisy without bothering to investigate the stated principles.
Social Security is not voluntary. Her participation was forced through payroll taxes, with no choice to opt out. If you consider such forced “participation” unjust, as Rand does, the harm inflicted on you would only be compounded if your announcement of the program’s injustice precludes you from collecting Social Security. She had a shit-ton of money forcibly taken from her and collected the relative pocket change of SS benefits ... so what?
Smeone pass me a match.....
You're not going to start lighting your farts again, are you?
Antediluvian defintion of money, as 'stored labor'.
This has so not been true for centuries, one has to wonder if you've zombified your way back to life.
Money clearly is either 1) printed fiat currency, 2) credit cards, 3) Loans you've managed to use to co-buy your car, house, pied a terre in Amserdam, 13th Arrondiesment, your yacht, mistresses' digs, etc. 4)or numerical keypad numbers, such as those that gave and are giving the black hearted, black-eyed Jews on Wall Street, and Fleet Street, by the Treasury under auspices of the Jewish run FED for the last 35 years.
Let's get up to speed, wiil you?
Money? Stored Labor???
geeesh...
Jews dont run the fed, fake jews do. Fake jews rule the jews, and do and will betray them.....again.
Wait a second. Are you suggesting the evil jews are just scape goats? That their leaders are just as bad as the rest of the self serving dickheads? Naw cant be.
LOL!
The Marxist con comes when I convince cripples how difficult it is for you to bend over and lift a leaf off the ground.
Money is anything the "market" decides it to be --- if your neighbor is only willing to barter in leaves, salt, eggs, gold, silver or toilet paper, then any discussion over the definition and or the "value" of money is irrelevent.
Money will be what the man on the street chooses to trade.
"Money will be what the man on the street chooses to trade."
Yeah...at gunpoint.
Try printing your own, and you will get to meet some nice guys from the Treasury Department. Competing currencies are frowned upon by the mafia dons.
If labour is the seed of civilization WHY did the FIRE economy get started by Reaganomics and WHY did outsourcing send all labour inputs to Chindia and all hyperconsumption fed on FIRE model and debt to first world where those FIRE economy towers rose higher and higher!
Of course, its all the fault of the socialist mentality; outsourcing and FIRE economy, based on "our money your problem" monopoly of the FED (a notorious socialist hide out) !
To explain to my kids why money has value, I picked up two identical leaves. I put one in my son's hand, and laid the other at his feet. I asked him, "Which leaf has more value to you?" He was confused for a moment, as neither really had any value to him, but then he said, "I guess the one in my hand." I asked him why. He said, "Because it's already in my hand, so I don't have to pick it up." I asked him where that value came from. He thought for a moment and said, "It came from you, because you put it in my hand." The additional value of the leaf in his hand (admittedly infintesimal) compared to the leaf at his feet was my labor. We account for that value with money.
A lot of people don't like this reality because of where it leads, which is, ultimately, to Marxism. But those people don't understand the difference between Marx's economic analysis and the perverted political system that is commonly called "Marxism." As a matter of fact, most people don't even understand political Marxism either; they think massive corporate bailouts and transfers of wealth from the lower and middle class to the corporate Elites through government are somehow "Marxism," when in fact they are textbook Fascism. Further, many people think Fascism, Marxism and Socialism are the same thing, which is a triumph of Fascist devolution of language.
As an afterthought, no Marxist supports Obama or "ObamaCare." And no Marxist is the least bit surprised by what is happening to the global corporate finance debt-based economy. And not just Marxists; anybody who owns a globe and can do high-school math should be surprised either.
But yes, money is stored labor. Otherwise, go get your own grain to barter with. Money is what makes the grain somebody else already grew, gathered, and brought to your doorstep more valuable.
"...money is stored labor. "
Value in any sense does not come from money. Value comes from a valuer (subject) intersecting w/some object. To the object, he/she attributes some value (i.e., as a way of advancing some end for the valuer). Money in other words, is a means to some end, not value or an end in itself.
As for this idea that money is stored labor, watch out. This is a very slippery slope. Labor is generally perceived as dis-utility in itself. That's why the trade-off is typically phrased as labor (disutility) vs. leisure (utility) and why someone has to be induced/compensated to perform laborious acts.
So if that's true, and if the premise of the article is also true, then money is actually stored DIS-utility. That is, money is stored pain. Maybe the Eastern mystics were right all along.
For that, an Oreo Cream cookie, for you.
That's a great point. I'd argue some value is indeed due to stored labor. Not all. I'd also suggest in our current system, money has become a value and end in itself. That's in fact the problem. We do have Finance for the sake of Finance. What's a stock buy-back, in the most general of terms?
On the (very rudimentary) level that I deal with money, because I don't have much of it, it is indeed a means to various ends. But when I was still pretty darned young I met plenty of people of far greater means than my own, whose attitudes towards money were so alien to my experience as to be unrecognizable.
Money is stored value. Not just stored labor. How much labor did Facebook require?
Marx's labor theory of value does not explain the value of asset allocation, consumer preferences, or creative destruction/invention. It is an incomplete economic theory advanced to support an ill conceived political theory that devalues choice, property rights, and other forms of freedom.
Which -ism is it when the government taxes at exorbitant rates and prints currency at exorbitant rates to fund wars, protect the bankers, and redistribute income to gain votes.. Plutocracy, Kleptocracy, or Fascism? The government may not "own" the means of production, but they certainly proxy for them.
The reason people confuse socialism, communism, and fascism is because they don't think about who owns the means of production, they only see who owns the biggest guns. All three are very similar when compared on a scale of political freedom. On the other end of the scale you will find what was formerly known as a republic, putting the rights of the individuals ahead of the anointed heads of the collective. In the middle of that scale you will find democracy, which will only slide to the left towards socialism and and its cousin, fascism.
How are you defining value? Facebook took a lot of labor. I can't do it. Facebook has value to me (well, it would if I used it) because somebody else made it and put it there for me to use.
I'm not schooled in Marxism, but it seems to me your examples are features of finance capitalism, not natural necesseties. The little I know of Marxist economics describes pretty well what we're seeing about what happens to finance capitalism. It requires infinite growth in a finite world, and once it encounters limits of any kind, it starts to eat itself. How exactly it goes about this is open for debate, but I think all ZH'ers of all political stripes are seeing modern debt-based corporate finance capitalism's self-cannibalism. Mal-investment, mis-investment, mistaking of imaginary things for real things; all of these are quite foreseeable failings of the economic model that has for the most part taken over the world, and we're seeing what happens.
It's this ongoing merger of State power under Corporate control that we're seeing, which is how Mussolini described "Fascism." The uniforms and the marching around and the shouting are just ways to keep people distracted while a tiny elite siphons off all the wealth.
In recent conversations I've tried to avoid all the words used in American political conversation, because those words have been intentionally drained of meaning, used to refer to things other than what they mean, and loaded down with contemporary connotations to the point of being meaningless, and in fact worse than useless. I've taken to describing what we see going on as "Neo-Fedualism," where instead of the Duke of Earl and the Baron of Pizza we get CEO's and semi-divine Buffetts, with a new Great Chain of Being that puts us all as serfs pyramiding up to some shadowy cloud-level past which we can't see, but where resides some sort of abstract ideal of wealth. All along the Chain, everyone has their obligations to those above them, and their advantages over those below them, whom they must help in keeping down.
I'm really glad more and more people are willing and able to have these conversations without calling each other meaningless, but derogatory names. That only furthers the decline.
Facebook has value to me (well, it would if I used it)
That makes no sense whatsoever. If Facebook truly had value to you, you'd be using it. I used to use it, then a couple of years ago, tired to seeing pictures of somebody's dinner, I deleted my account. It has NO value to me. It still has NO value to me and it's only a matter of time till FB goes the way of myspace.
I feel you, man.
More like neo-mercantilism, but whatever.
My point about Facebook,or Google for that matter, is the labor input is dwarfed by the value created, as compared to high labor/low value products like Chevy Volt. The consumer preference for these high value products says nothing about Marx's insistence that labor is a slave to those who control the means of production.
To paraphrase: some labor is more valuable than others. Best to let markets decide rather than Marx-quoting authoritarians.
Where capitalism fails is just like you said...big money buys favors from big government. Shrink the goverment power and you shrink corruption.
"...because those words have been intentionally drained of meaning,"
And today's number one meaningless word: racist.
Which political Philosophy did Mao advocate?
wait until the west destroys itself then china will move in and resume control of the world as is its destiny, the real chosen people, philosophy.
Maoism?
Marxism. Look either people are in control or Government is. It does not matter who the parasites are. Thus Marxism, Socialism, and Fascism are all the same coin.
You're right of course about Mao, and about political Marxism. I'm no expert on the topic, but what I've learned of political Marxism is one of those academic idealistic notions that would work great--without people. With actual people, it turns into the usual power-for-its-own-sake routine. It does get to that point by a different path than Socialism, and a very different path from Fascism. Those being ground into the dirt by the boot aren't going to care about such academic distinctions, however.
would work great--without people
as much as I agree, even that is not entirely true - because just like the fact that none of these systems work perfectly because of human nature (i.e., humans are imperfect), none of these systems is perfect in the first place because they were created by humans.
so the discussion is NOT which ONE is the PERFECT solution. Nor should the discussion be that because one aspect of one theory is wrong then the whole of it should be thrown out. intead the discussion should be, OF the ideas theorized and implemented with regard to socio/economic/governmental systems over the last several hundred years, which will work BEST NOW and for the next 50-100 years given everything we know about human nature, societies, corruption, economics, science, etc.
i imagine we'll figure that out after the fed gets audited...cause we all know that's gonna happen.
Money is congealed life. Debt is delayed prosperity. Labor is life.
We don't use money. We used debt based currency.
Currency, whether debt based or backed by real assets, is not money.
Real money can't be debased.
Now, the most important part of the scam, is to convince the people that the paper and digital currency they use, is money.
Mission accomplished.
Anything can be debased. God can be debased. I can debase you. So can forms of money. That is the scam that most don't understand. It is subjective and what is perceived as valuable relative to other things.
If I find you starving, then at the point in time, the food I have is the money. If I find you dying of hydration then water is the money. If I find you freezing, then a coat and a nice fire is the money. In any of these situations, what many might call "real money" doesn't mean shit.
The only reason we talk of paper or digital currency is of the current times and situation. But that can be wiped away. It's just simply noise by those that don't really know history beyond the 20th century.
I stick to my contention.
The things you talk of, DO NOT fit the definition of Money.
Food, no matter how hungry you are, is not money. Money needs to be durable. Are we learning here, yet?
Money needs to be fungible.
Division can't ruin it's "moneyness "
Getting the point?
It can't be counterfeited. That is part of the definition.
It must be in somewhat limited supply.
Easy to transport.
Something you could hide for 500 years and it still have value.
Anything come to mind? Anything?
Everything else is currency. Yes, a technical point. But an important one.
All those attributes of a desirable money are true, and presumably you are leading to a gold and/or silver based money. These too however can and as a matter of historical record have been debased. See clipping and mixing in base alloys then recasting the coinage as just 2 examples in this regard. The point is not the money per se', but rather how its production and control are maintained. Government involvement in this process is neither necessary nor desirable. Those who cannot be trusted should not be trusted.
size and weight with electronic scale and micrometers pretty much stops the alloying of PMs by minters---a simple eye piece will show up a counterfeit---
That the financial system is about to collapse is obvious, however it needs to be looked at in the context of the 775 earlier currencies that have all collapsed. What is also important this time is that the system that is collapsing is one of the worst in all of history and in this sense it is good riddance. What we have as a financial system today is little more than a ponzi scheme that uses counterfeiting and accounting fraud to deprive the public of their wealth by transferring it into the greedy hands of the Rothschild banking cartel. The big issue now is what comes next. If we allow the Rothschild criminals to decide it will be an even worse form of debt slavery than the current system. If we cancel all debt and introduce a public banking system where the issuance of money is linked to productivity a new golden age will begin.
"If we cancel all debt and introduce a public banking system where the issuance of money is linked to productivity a new golden age will begin."
B.S. on many points.
1: Yes, future obligations promised by corrupt governments need to be dealt with. But to cancel personal debt because someone decided to be irresponsible with their spending? Hell no. There is a difference between debt forced on people by governments (although people elected these governments to do so) and debt that people voluntarily sign up for, voluntarily promising to pay back.
2: When you say "public banking system" I'm assuming that you are saying government banking system. You want to go from voluntarily choosing your banking institution (use a savings and loan if you hate banks, or just use cash and no bank) to an incompetent and corrupt at the same time government bank? A bank run by politicians. Nightmare.
3: Go to a standard where money can not be created out of thin air and there will be much greater chance of prospering. The government money printing machines were created to allow governments to spend irresponsibly (the same government that you want to be our bank). They are taxing machines that take your wealth to pay for irresponsible government spending.
On top of that a free market capitalist system founded on morality, like that one that made the U.S. the most prosperous nation on the planet in less than 200 years, will do the trick. Not this socialist - business strangling government mandate system that we currently have.
Fiat currency is the lightest yet strongest of chains. The 'money' masters get their cut of all economic activity while the sheeple haven't the foggiest notion they've been fleeced. Brilliant. Only problem is, the greedy bastards are no longer satisfied with picking our pockets, they want to run our lives. As their puppets inevitably f up (sub-prime loans, Frank-Dodd, Affordable Care Act, chaotic middle east), the sheeple are starting to lift their heads and ask questions. And when the pastures dry up, the sheep turn to wolves....
Your utter ignorance of public banking and what actually led to America becoming the dominant world economy is breathtaking. What you advocate in point 1 is continued life as a debt slave.
The Nightmare you mention in point 2 is total BS: go and research what Abraham Lincoln achieved through issuing greenbacks you will find the following. Lincoln was able to to: Build and equip the largest army in the world-Smash the British financed insurrection-Abolish slavery-Turn America into the greatest industrial giant the world has ever seen-Launch the steel industry-Build a railroad system-Provide free higher education. What was even more impressive was that he did all this within four years.
Furthermore the public banking system in Pennsylvania operated so well that Adam Smith (1776) asserted that the profits from the land banks were able to cover the entire cost of running the government. This meant no income taxes were needed.
So your claim that it will never work are BS, your claim that private banking made America wealthy is BS and you want to remain a debt slave....do some research next time.
Adam Smith (1776) asserted that Pennsylvania operated under this system so efficiently that the profits from the land banks were able to cover the entire cost of running the government.
?This meant no income taxes were needed.Ummmm... It is not the 1700's any more. Try again but this time use data from, oh, say, the past 100 years.