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One Last Look At The Real Economy Before It Implodes - Part 2
Submitted by Brandon Smith via Alt-Market.com,
Consumer spending in the U.S. accounts for approximately 70 percent of gross domestic product, though it is important to note that the manner in which “official” GDP is calculated is highly inaccurate. For example, all government money used within the Medicare coverage system to pay for “consumer health demands,” as well as the now flailing Obamacare socialized welfare program, are counted toward GDP, despite the fact that such capital is created from thin air by the Federal Reserve and also generates debt for the average taxpayer. Government debt creation does not beget successful domestic production. If that was a reality, then all socialist and communist countries (same thing) would be wildly enriched today. This is simply not the case.
That said, the swift decline in manufacturing jobs in the U.S. over the past two decades, including a considerable 33 percent overall decline in manufacturing jobs from 2001 to 2010, leaves only the consumer and service sectors as the primary areas of employment and “production.” The service sector provides about three out of every four jobs available in America, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
The truth is that America actually produces very little that is tangible beyond Big Macs, pharmaceuticals and the occasional overpriced fighter jet that doesn’t function correctly and is filled with Chinese parts. All three will kill you at varying degrees of speed...
In the first part of this article series, I discussed the true state of global demand, along with the unstable situation within numerous indicators from exports to retail. Swiftly falling global demand for raw materials as well as consumer goods is an undeniable reality. This is a distinct problem in terms of the U.S., which has been, up until recently, the primary consumption driver for much of the world. As I plan to show, U.S. demand is about to fall even further into the abyss as real unemployment and personal debt take their toll.
Now, it is probably important to address the lies presented in the mainstream and by the BLS in terms of unemployment statistics because even after years of alternative analysts debunking establishment stats and how they are calculated, we STILL end up hearing the same arguments parroted by disinformation agents and unwitting useful idiots.
Such people continue to parade around boasting about the latest BLS reports on job creation claiming that “all is well” because the unemployment rate has dropped to 5.5% and all other talk to the contrary is “doom and gloom.” So, once again, I must relate the fact that the current BLS numbers are an utter sham.
Official unemployment stats are arrived at through disingenuous methods of calculation that were introduced in the 1990s, just before the bursting of the dot com bubble; the introduction of artificially low interest rates, which created the derivatives crisis; and the steady derailment of the U.S. financial system, which has occurred ever since.
So who is actually counted as employed and who is NOT counted as employed by the BLS?
Of the 102 million working-age Americans without work today, only 8.7 million are counted by the BLS as unemployed. Out of all working-age Americans, over 92 million are without jobs and are not counted by the BLS as unemployed. Why?
Well, if you ever read establishment-leaning propaganda websites like Factcheck or Poltifact, the argument is essentially that these 92 million Americans are not counted because they “refuse to participate,” not because they can’t find adequate employment and not because the government is misrepresenting the numbers. Yes, that’s right, 92 million Americans don’t count because they clearly must not want work.
So, first, I would ask how it is that the BLS comes to the conclusion that nearly one-third of the U.S. population does not want to work? Is it through its so called “household surveys?” Surveys, just like public polls, can be easily manipulated to affirm any particular bias merely by changing how questions are phrased. I would certainly love to see the raw data from such polls before the BLS adds its own spin.
Second, even if such claims were true and tens of millions of Americans did not want to work, why would this matter? Shouldn’t they still be counted as unemployed in order to draw the most accurate picture of our economic situation? Wouldn’t 92 million Americans apparently on a long-term labor and productivity strike have a severe negative effect on real GDP? And obviously, they must be surviving somehow. Wouldn’t 92 million people eventually require government assistance through food stamps and welfare? Does none of this matter to the BLS in terms of the overall economic picture?
Third, if the assertion is that 92 million people do not want jobs, then by extension the BLS would have to show that those millions of people could in fact get a job if they simply tried. Where are these tens of millions of jobs that Americans are refusing to apply for and what do they pay?
Fourth, a common misrepresentation attached to the claim of “refusal to participate” is that many of these Americans are teens in school (16 to 18) and possible “retirees” (55 or older). The BLS and the mainstream media simply assume these people do not want a job and should not be counted as unemployed. Of course, the BLS includes such people in its stats when they DO have jobs. So, according to the BLS, if you are 16 or 55 or 65 and you have a job, then you count. If you are 16 or 55 or 65 and don’t have a job, then you don’t count. See how that works?
Fifth, millions of Americans are losing long-term unemployment benefits every quarter and are being removed from BLS statistics. Many of them are not teens or retirees. These are average-working-age adults who now no longer have any real launch pad to progress in their career or life, and who should be fully motivated to obtain work if jobs are so readily available. Again, where are these jobs that said prime-working-age people refuse to accept?
The BLS also invariably discounts the number of working-age Americans who enter the market as well when boasting of jobs created to the public. Job growth numbers do not weigh the number of new participants each month with the number of supposed jobs made available, thus creating a misconception about how many new jobs are actually needed to keep the economy functional.
Another important factor to observe in government labor statistics is the issue of part-time work. When the BLS releases its monthly stats on unemployment, it does not widely promote or discuss the fact that 18 percent to 20 percent of those labeled “employed” are considered “part-time employed.” The BLS defines “part-time employed” as anyone who works 1 to 34 hours per week. Yes, if you work one hour per week, you have helped to bring down the overall unemployment rate of the U.S. to a fantastic 5.5 percent, even though you likely have zero ability to support yourself financially, let alone a family.
What does the 5.5 percent unemployment number actually represent on a fundamental level where the real world actually matters rather than the world of hypothetical calculations? Not a damn thing. The number is absolutely and unequivocally meaningless.
If one were to calculate unemployment using pre-1990s methods, as websites like Shadowstats.com do, counting U-6 measurements as well as the underemployed, you would come up with a U.S. jobless rate closer to 23 percent.
Many of those workers in the service sector on the higher end of the part-time and full-time spectrum still cannot support themselves adequately due to falling wages, rising prices and growing debt obligations, which brings me to the next problem at hand.
Beyond unemployment as a destroyer of consumer demand, there is also personal debt. Much of the focus within the mainstream and even alternative economics revolves around national debt (I will cover the many lies surrounding national debt in my next article). However, effects on fundamental demand are far clearer when one examines household liabilities. According to averages supplied through government stats (meaning the real numbers are likely far worse), the average American household suffers from between $10,000 to $15,000 in credit card debt, $155,000 in mortgage debt and $32,000 in student loan debt.
Americans owed nearly $12 trillion overall in 2014, an increase of 3.3 percent over 2013. Declines in some debts, including a decline in credit card debts since 2011, are attributed to numerous defaults, not repayments.
What we have here is a deadly fiscal combination; namely the combination of real unemployment at permanently high levels and real personal debt at unsustainable levels. This is the core reason behind the collapse in global demand that was discussed in the first installment of this series. With U.S. consumers no longer able to support their historical consumption habits and with the inflexible skeleton of the U.S. economy in particular dependent on past consumer dynamics, the system has little financial plasma left circulating.
This is not necessarily a new trend; but 10 years ago, Americans were able to offset their dwindling buying power by taking on massive debts through easy Federal Reserve fiat fueling questionable bank loans. They no longer have this option; thus, consumption is going to degrade (and is degrading) to the point that the current financial structure, stuck in its rigid and fragile dynamic, will collapse. There is no way around it.
As stated in my last article, the numbers given here are in most cases establishment-generated statistics. A common argument among state apologists and propagandists is that we in the alternative economic field should be labeled “hypocritical” if we debunk some mainstream stats while using others as reference points. I would make clear yet again that it is the contradictions within the government’s own numbers and claims that alternative analysts are most concerned with. My view is that when mainstream numbers actually reflect negative economic trends, they should be multiplied according to other prominent factors. That is to say, when the government bureaucrats and fantasy masters finally admit things are bad, they are actually much worse than indicated.
Some mainstream statistics are outright fraudulent; some are half true; others are factual yet hidden in plain site from the general public. In between the lines of all of this information, good and bad, alternative economists attempt to discern as much foundational truth as possible. As this series continues, I believe readers new to the Liberty Movement, as well as longtime activists, will come to view a wider and fuller picture of our fiscal situation and come to the same conclusion I have - That the manner in which we live today is about to drastically change, and that this coming change is being hidden from us deliberately by those who wish to use a tactic of financial shock and awe to their ultimate advantage.
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The Real Economy is not doing well. If we actually addressed it, maybe something could be done.............maybe
Job Layoff List: http://www.dailyjobcuts.com
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The only real economy that I know of exists at my present address. All the rest is BS and propaganda.
So true. The BS about ... "70 percent of gross domestic product .." is just so much government BS. Consumer spending accounts for about 20% of the economy. 130 million workers earning $35K on average is $4.2T or a so-called $16T GDP. The bulk of the economy is government spending and huge piles of money sloshing around on Wall Street.
Imploding ecomonies make for good cannon-fodder feed-stock. Think panic of 1907 - WWI, 1929 Great Depression - WWII.
Quite a staggeringly heart-less state of affairs.
Don't be a Warrior...
https://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2015/03/14/wisdom-for-rawriors/
A lot of people believe that nothing will change until US government benefits stop.
Don't be fooled, we are going to be in another world war by the end of 2016.
And unlike the previous WW's this one will be on NA continent as well as the rest of the world.
even Roubini said last week in an interview that very little of the QE Trillions reached Main Street, Despite flooding the system with money, it was pumped into a very tiny sector. Another reason why we are in a depression in real terms.
That is by design, which is to prepare the masses in the West to embrace the coming World War financially. It works every time.
That the manner in which we live today is about to drastically change, and that this coming change is being hidden from us deliberately by those who wish to use a tactic of financial shock and awe to their ultimate advantage.
I've been hearing that for a very long time. The reality of the situation is simply that the metamorphosis has already happened. Think about it. Compare an American economy of the past where 5.5% unemployment existed to that of today. From what I remember, lots of people had money, lots of money. Not now. Not anymore. So the empiricle evidence is that, yes, "they" are lying. Now what?
We have already been fucked over. What's happening now is the slow realization that somehthing is not right. But it's too late. Someone here on ZH called it the death rattle.
Morpheus: I know *exactly* what you mean. Let me tell you why you're here. You're here because you know something. What you know you can't explain, but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life, that there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Back in the early 90s, I went to a seminar that talked about the coming greatest wealth transfer in the recorded history of mankind on two fronts. Of course, I didn't fully believe the thesis because it was too good to be true. Reality just confirmed it being 75% right in retrospect.
I'm hoping to get a PhD on my novel approach to re-enumerating the official unemployed number. The recent addition of hookers and the CIA oops unknown drug dealers to GDP means that we can not only reduce unemployment figure by the number of hoes being pimped out, but by including all wankers as self-employed 'sex workers' we are almost instantaneously back at full employment. Can I have a job at the fed now please sir?
>>>lots of people had money.... Not now. Not anymore
Lighten up, man.
Plenty of Amurican Federal, State, County and Municipal employees are living kick-ass lives.
I know its sarc August, but one thing we would all do well to get over is the idea that "kick ass life" aka happiness has much of anything to do with moola. Thoreau never cared about money. While we are taught from early on to drool over money.
less is moar and that is not lolipop think. since less embraces the 'now' situation and i can not change the world we live in, i'm going to carry on just as y'day, seeking knowledge and prepping for what branden predicts with 100 percent certainty. left behind will not be biblical, but the black swan that carries some of us to an early death. choice is yours, not mine as i have made my preparations today.
Debt Rattle - Close enough.
http://www.theautomaticearth.com/2015/03/debt-rattle-march-15-2015/
How did unemployment stats go down ? Actually the gov fixed that. By rolling back unemployment benefits back from 99 weeks to 26 weeks the administration reduced claims since they started rollback last year claims fell off the books. People not getting jobs, they just fell off the system.
So they cut the benifits and made things look better - the lie is two-fold.
I've been following aircraft prices for years now,,, not jetliners but single engine piston planes ... In the last year the valuations have been halved and the quality has gone up... millionaires are dumping their toys , including the good ones they meant to hold onto... people with hundreds of millions are still buying jets though.
In the single engine piston department it's probably also a whole lot of GA FBOs, flight schools. air taxi, etc., going under, and non-wealthy small aircraft owners selling upon realizing there isn't anything left to sacrifice in order to keep the plane.
Even if it had reached main street, that would have meant a inflationary depression. But it didn't which is why I called for deflation and have been right so far.
All that money reaching main street wouldn't have solved the problem. The problem would just have manifested into another form. In other words, printing excess money does not solve problems. It only delays the problem and creates other imbalances in the economy.
The PROBLEM IS WALL STREET.... The Benefits fraud is bad....but it takes a lot of fraud to pay the average idiot $500k a year to push paper wall street...THAT IS THE AVERAGE!!!! Wall Street perverts and steals from EVERYONE whether ramping wheat, oil, meat, etc or ransacking pensions, gutting companies or buying crap traches of government backed loans...full well knowing they are take the guarantee.
You make a good statistical point; however, you must also take into account velocity of money. One dollar in economy generates more than one dollar in GDP.
That has been proven wrong. Each new dollar created generates less and less of a return. Why, because eventually the productivity of the economy can't back up the amount of new dollars created. Thus, you have debt generated to keep the game going until it falls apart.
By the way, velocity has to do more with inflation. But when most of the money printed is kept in a few hands and not spread around to main street, you have no inflation and very little velocity. Additionally, as debt is created, velocity dies as more of the money is needed to service debt.
"Consumer spending accounts for about 20% of the economy. 130 million workers earning $35K on average is $4.2T or a so-called $16T GDP. "
Consumer spending is higher than you are estimating. You didn't include that consumers borrow money to spend. Consider the cost of a consumer borrowing 150K to buy a home, or $20K to by a car, or $40K for student loans. Also not everyone makes $35K a year. there are lots of people that earn much more and also spend much more. And there are also gov't subsidies and entitlements (EBT, SS, etc) which end up as consumer spending but not counted as inconome.
That said, your right that consumer spending does not consist of 70% of the US GDP. If I recall correctly, gov't spending (Fed,State, Local) accounts for about 40% of the GDP. The real US economy is probably really about $7.7 Trillion. The rest is gov't spending, borrowing and double counting some line items to inflate the GDP estimate. There is no way the US economy grew by $2T since the collase of 2008. In 2008 the US GDP estimate was about $14T.
When calculating GDP potential based on average wages and total workforce, don’t forget about the multiplier effect. The actual impact on GDP of a single dollar spent is 4 to 11 times depending on the related industry, related consumer behavior and other factors. The declining manufacturing, staggering debt and the 23% true un-employment numbers cited by Smith are signs of a truly unhealthy economy. It’s a good thing we own the printing presses! Unfortunately, there are no other viable end game scenarios…
Stuck on zero. You missed paper shuffling a lot of Ameriass jobs are paper shuffling. Good comment.
MAJOR RUSSIAN ANNOUCEMENT - Putin is gone, Russian abasadors have left Europe....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIRowcrddYo
Perhaps Putin is going to announce that he is accepting the CEO spot at GS.
Pratt, Putin was in Switzerland for the birth of his daughter, thats why he was mia..
Maybe the major announcement is about that.
Great link, dude. That guy is a dufus.
You are correct!
The guy also mentions semis being parked around the Kremlin. Live webcam does not support that claim.
He mentions no sources or other way to authenticate his claims.
BS.
Hitlery move to Poland or Romania you will find like minded friends there.
Yea, really huge annoucement.
Putin is hung like an elephant while Obama is hung like a gnat.
And by the way, I am against both because I hate oligarchs and corrupt politicians.
"American household suffers from between $10,000 to $15,000 in credit card debt, $155,000 in mortgage debt"
Max out your credit cards, buy gold.
Second mortage your house, buy gold.
Lose said gold, file chapter 7.
Rise and repeat.
property tax in NJ is 10% of household GROSS INCOME!!! Then you start paying your other taxes
"Get the hell off the beach"
SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP !
corzine country, ha...
Out of curiosity, NJ = New Jersey?
That would be correct.
NJ = No Jobs, in Joisey.
Not Juicy
And you live there because....?
He can't afford to live in Manhattan with the other parasites.
Martin Armstrong did that!
Time to stop paying property tax in NJ ,, who cares if some schmucks buy the tax certs/liens ,, you've got years to redeem them and we might have Zimbabwe type inflation wipe it all out before long. If the average tax bill is $10k in Jersey that's a few acres a year you could buy CASH in many states.
Sounds like a great way to go to prison for fraud. Not to mention, and I assume that chapter 7 is bankruptcy proceedings, that you will be seen as a major credit risk and thus would (most likely) be unable to obtain new debt.
Just because you bury your gold in a 30 foot pit, does not mean you have an airtight legal case. A savvy financial investigator could piece together enough from various financial statements to show fraudulent behavior.
It's a lot harder to game the system than you might imagine, though it is possible, of course. Considering that gold is about to come under a LOT of heat (the dealers already are coming under scrutiny in the US and Europe) I would suggest that you dot the 'i's and cross the 't's in this case.
Edit: if it was that easy to obtain arbitrage, which is essentially what you are talking about doing, creating risk-free profit, there would not be enormous institutions (the Fed. Reserve, for instance) built around doing the same for the banking system. Note: even HFT is not subject to "easy" arbitrage profit.. HFT has become a "nuclear arms race" in who dominates the best arbitrage seeking algorithms. You might book profit for 36 months straight, and then another mathematics PhD builds a better model/machine and ensures you book losses from now until the end of time.
One must operate slowly, more so than others performing exact same process upon the masses.
Why run down the hill to see one, when you may walk to see them all.
More patience than TPTB, forever is not obtainable, although spoken.
I think robert duvall says it a little better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbUxePfsoWE
Operate whatever speed you want. It is still some of the worst financial advice that I have ever heard in my life. I like bullion, but let's not pretend that a "wealth creating strategy" which is that stupid is going to make someone a millionaire. It is literally a scheme which a 10 year old could have come up with on the back of a McDonalds napkin.
Given the amount of downvoters I can only assume a bunch of really moronic people are in the process of creating fraud. That's fine. Good luck. However, based on the government scrabbling for cash right now, don't be surprised if you get taken away in cuffs.
Brosephstiglitz ,
I disagree on how hard it is to make money in HFT ,,,If you had the magic key to be allowed in the game the key is to not get greedy and pick stocks as your targets that others dismiss as too small.. let them use a backhoe to ladle in the cash ,, I'd be happy with a wheelbarrow a day.. attack where your enemy isn't.
"If you had the magic key to be allowed in the game..."
What "magic key" would that be exactly? As far as I am aware anyone can set up a HFT firm. Just need to make sure you have some influential people and a decent legal team. IF you are smart enough to program such models, someone somewhere will heap money upon you.
"I disagree on how hard it is to make money in HFT"
Well in that case you should be able to go set one up right? Go ahead. If it's that easy, prove me wrong.
In fact, here is your roadmap:
- Code some proprietary algorithms to find arbitrage within the market.
- Incorporate a private limited company (A sole trader, or partnership would be cheaper, but a private limited company limits your risk.)
- Source some capital. Either a bank-loan, crowd-funding, angel-investors etc.
- Buy the servers and computers needed to run the HFT.
...
- Profit???
There you go. Simple right? If you have an IQ of 180, experience in the markets, a PhD in financial mathematics and are a brilliant coder.
BEFORE it implodes??? WTF????
23% unemployment, $6 gallon milk, 90% of college grads going home to live with their parents . . . .
Happy F*cking Days are Here Again!!!!
Milk shot up to 4.99 a gallon for me and now it is 3.78 a gallon. Egg prices are going thru the roof now.
I pay $2 a gallon for milk.
In fact I rarely pay full price for anything.
Shop at Walmart,and price match everything with some fabricated number.
I don't shop locally because the establishment is already fucked why prop them up any longer.
With as shitty of an employeer walmart is the serfs hardly bother question your price matches.
I used to be a cashier at Walmart, and we despised shitheads like you. You are a taker, and a bad person.
No worry needed.
Wal- milk will take 'em out.
I'm sorry you could only amount to cashiering at walmart.
Don't blame me for a easily frauded system.
Whether I paid full price or not, Walmart is still the biggest employer in America with average wages at minimum.
You enjoy that steroid, chemical, GMO milk. Look around friend, cancer is epidemic.
Well dickhead maybe it was just a stepping stone job.I used to work in fastfood,what does that make me ? I'll tell you what dickhead I work in high tech and when the OT is unlimited I can make close to $200k a year.It's obvious you have a small brain to go along with your small dick.
what does that make me ?
I don't know...Somebody who still works the night shift?
(*Okay. It was snark. But I could not resist. That was just too wide open. I agree with you. I have worked at a convenience store and in a clean room.)
The trouble with shopping at Wal Mart is ALL the food iradiated and so you are not buying food you are buying high quality shit.
Irradiated food to me would be a huge bonus,, I love that method of preservation... Can you point me to something that would back that claim up?
Day old Eddy's ice cream at the 99 cent store today..I'm in fucking heaven
"Shop at Walmart [for food] ,and price match everything with some fabricated number."
I would never consider buying food a Walmart. Some food is imported from China and I have no doubt its loaded with Toxins. The Walmart milk is likely pumped full of hormones and other crap to increase productivity. I am sure those Cow hormones are doing wonders for you!
From Walmart you can buy avocados, asparagus and some other produce items which are not from China nor toxic. Buy beer there too. And bottled water.
We found that the store we always wanted to avoid has become a sort of necessity with our full time RV living now. If you are smart, you can find good things in any place...
shop at walmart, support china and put yourself and your family and everyone else out of work.
asshole. you must be a walton.
walmart is the worst of the american cancers.
thanks for the trolling. i hope you like cheap! cheap is good. why spend money.
forget a casket - caskets cost money. save money - feed the worms.
Enjoy those growth hormones, but don't complain when your whining starts to match your new tits.
a lb of butter at $4.00 a lb
bacon being measured in 6 or 12 oz packages.
forget gold invest in bacon!
Costco ...milk is $4.38 for 2 Gallons. What is wrong with you people? Eggs are $3.40 for 18 good ones. Not garbage. Bacon at Costco...4 1 pound packs $8.99. Stop getting ass raped and shop correctly.
You folks wouldn't like dairy and beef prices in an unsubsidized system. Are you sure you always want the free market?
Remove the subsidies AND the tax burden associated with them and I'll take the higher prices.
This is the same line that the farm reporters shovel in Des Moines and it is complete BS. Douches in suits are the ones that came up with this marketing of subsidies. They pretend it helps small farmers while it is just corporate welfare. A free market in food and food prices would be dirt cheap.
Same as putting grain alchol in gas and calling it ethanol
most of the subsidies are for keeping prices propped UP, not down. even ethanol requirements are just indirect price floors
wasn't tom brokaw making a few $100K a year for NOT planting on his hobby farm?
and check into your local "foodstamp" programs. alot of them only let people buy designated corporate name brands
America. the only place on earth that pays farmers to not grow food.
Or Aldi.
The Germans got that one right.
Typically 25% lower than Walmart or 50% lower than Publix or Winn-Dixie.
We sit outside Aldi and wait for lazy folks to abandon their carts by their car, then dutifully return them to the lockup so we can collect the 25 cents from the cart.
Aldi's cart system is an efficient one, and has the side benefit of feeding my family.
You're right, only 4 shopping stops for a BLT with a glass of milk. COST has some pretty shitty stuff. I bought smoked beef sausages there and they taste like shit. The three or five-cheese raviolis, once cooked, laste like glue if anything. The price-point concept is driving down quality as much as package size. Eat better quality, smaller portions.
AS to radiation... anytime I see apples under a bucvk a poud, I think bumper crop that has been zapped for longer shelf life. Stick one of those apples in the bowl fora couple of month then cut it open. Buy organic and buy local.
"Costco ...milk is $4.38 for 2 Gallons. What is wrong with you people? Eggs are $3.40 for 18 good ones. "
Because its containmated with Hormones, antibiotics and other crap that is unhealthy. Cheaper does not mean its better. Save $2 At the store, Spend $100K in medical bills 20 years from now.
There must be a corporate troll here because no one could argue this point.
The corporate media has led matrixtards to believe that food is food, which is the farthest thing from the truth.
Your body is a complex chemical processing plant. With the proper food, you can both detoxify the harmful chemicals that aren't supposed to be in your diet, and provide thousands of important chemical compounds that ward off disease. Just google turmeric or broccoli for example.
It's time to get wise, because if you are eating off a standard grocery store shelf today, you are slowly poisoning yourself.
fast 1 day a month, it will improve your health, and discipline
one or 2 16 hour fasts per week increase insulin sensitivity and decrease crp(marker of inflammation)
If you're advising people to shop for things they can raise or grow themselves, it's you that needs the attitude adjustment.
Can't wait to see your face when the lights go out.
Sorry to inform you, but there's no such thing as "good" industrially-farmed food. Fuck, your local Costco probably sells half the same shit in different packaging and a bulk box as the Wally World down the street.
Can't even get my fellow fucking American morons to stop poisioning themselves to death, yet these same people think they can reform the global monetary system and "Restore the Republic?" I wonder why I'm still here in this Nation of Infants.
The cost of actual real milk...from grass fed cows like all milk back in the 50's or 60's is $10.00/gal.
This is the actual comparison, because what is being sold as "milk" at wal mart today is a mixture of pus, antibiotics, nutrasweet and titanium white, not fit for human consumption.
This is true. I used to work at a dairy. The standard in the early 1980 was 10 CFU/ml of coloform bacteria. I heard the standard today is 100. This allows a very dirty product because they figure with pasteurization it is safe. Pasteurization lyses bacteria releasing many proteins into the milk that is not removed. Many people may be sensitized to these proteins rather than lactose intolerant.
Pasteurization also creates a dead product that acts a a good growth media for pathogenic bacteria. Drop a few Listeria monocytogenes cells in it, leave it a room temp and in a few hours there will be massive growth. Do this to raw milk and you would be hard pressed to isolate it because of the bacterial competition with the live bacteria that are present ( I actually performed this experiment).
Look at the conditions at a modern dairy. Kind of a cow concentration camp. Most won't give you a tour for a reason. I am fortunate to know a certified raw dairy owner that produces an excellent product. Yes, very expensive at 8 dollars a quart but you can stand a fork in the cream that rises to the top. We rarely drink milk ( there are many other good sources of calcium) and we have to plan when we do because his milk rarely lasts more than five days.
Unfortunately cheap doesn't mean good. Many Americans have not learned this.
Miffed
Fascinating Miffed. Same story for the eggs. if you are paying $3.49 for 18 eggs, you are getting shit for quality and tortured Hens...
Absolutely! Had the unfortunate experience having someone returning my eggs because the yolks were orange, thinking they were bad. *sigh*
Happy ultimate Pi day!
Miffed;-)
It would be best to consider grocery store eggs and eggs from healthy free range non GMO fed hens living on bugs, worms and baby snakes like they're supposed to as two totally separate products.
If you crack them open side by side, they look like two totally separate products. Go figure.
The fat and cholesterol components are different, Omega 3 profile is different, protein is different, everything is different because everything affects everything and healthy hens lay healthy eggs.
So you are seriously arguing against pasteurization?
I would. Back in the 70's we bought raw milk from a local family dairy. As Miffed mentioned, the cream would actually hold a fork upright. And the milk lady was a hottie. I actually worked some at the dairy (worked at various ranches as a kid) and was impressed with the family's absolute dedication to sanitation. They had no desire for their name to be linked with disease, bad milk, or anything else that might harm their business. As to chemicals, once a year the dairy cows were injected with erythromycin, I know that as a fact as I was usually one of those giving the shots. We gave our own beef cattle the same shot to ward off bovine diseases. It wasn't like there was an IV drip constantly going.
One benefit of my youth was the experience of clearing out piles of bullshit. I shoveled tons of bullshit. And I know bullshit when I see/smell it.
Pasteurization is used for mass consumption. There is nothing inherently wrong with raw milk from cleanly run dairies on a local basis.
You sound like one of those who first need to meet somebody suffering from bovine tuberculosis, before you'd ever consider weighing risk vs. prevention.
I work with many patients with Mycobacteria bovis. Yes, it is harder to treat than mycobacteria tuberculosis. I also see many patients with Brucella. All are from Mexico and South America. Milk is the likely source but dairies in USA are immunized against Brucella and bovis is extremely rare now. In 1997 it was claimed to be almost erraticated.
Yes, ingesting anything raw carries risk however more and more food poisonings are occurring from less likely sources such as fruit and vegetables. Shall we now pasteurize cantelopes? Perhaps we should clean up the farms but that costs money and people want cheap food.
Miffed
That is an extremely poor attempt to reason away milk pasteurization
And let me tell you one thing:
The person I know who had bovine tuberculosis needed to take triple antibiotics for 9 months and even after that had to do test for 2 more years after to see if they really eradicated the disease in her body.
She is fine now, but for me just to know that
1. it needs the biggest guns doctors have to just so be able to eradicate bovine tuberculosis in someone's body
2. most likely source of such illness is drinking milk from an infected cow
3. pasteurization of milk will reliably kill all such bacteria
lead me to (easily) conclude that I will never in my life drink unpasteurized milk again.
I told you I know the protocol for bovis. TB is never erraticated from the body. Once you have it, it is there for your life, just walled off. This is termed latent TB. Most of my patients ( approx 70%) are active TB that were once latent. This doesn't mean it will become active once again but chances are high if the patient takes immunosuppressive drugs ( especially for rheumatoid arthritis) or has their immunity wane due to old age.
You did not say if your friend got the disease from drinking milk in this country. BCG is given to children to many TB endemic countries as a vaccine against TB. This is an attenuated strain of bovis.
My collegue is skin test positive for TB and has never drunk raw milk. She has no travel history that would explain it. They found a tiny lesion in her lung but decided not to biopsy it for fear this would release it. Her family had a large sheep ranch. She speculates this is the source but has no proof. She will take no steroids knowing what this would mean.
I don't advocate drinking raw milk unless you know the source. I will never drink pasteurized commercial milk because I know it is a horribly dirty product. Do you really want to drink cooked coliform bacteria, benign as well as pathogenic? If that is what is only available, I would never drink milk again knowing there are many other sources of calcium.
Miffed
I find it quite humorous how you selectively pick your absolutes.
On the one side you state you would somehow be able to know the source of raw milk - I mean really, you can be highly sure to know everything relevant of a dairy producer, no matter how small and local?
On the other side
I will never drink pasteurized commercial milk because I know it is a horribly dirty product. Do you really want to drink cooked coliform bacteria, benign as well as pathogenic? If that is what is only available, I would never drink milk again
if you really believe that, you should not be willing to drink any kind of water except purified by distillation one?
I drink unpurified well water and filtered treated city water. Neither is sterile. Raw milk is not sterile. It is a living product with commensal as well as few opportunistic pathogens. The world is not sterile nor would it be wise to seek such. The body is colonized by many bacteria, fungi and viruses at an approximate ratio of 85% non pathogenic to 15% pathogenic.
I do not drink pasteurized milk because it is full of bacterial products, lysed white cells, growth hormones and the cows are not usually allowed to pasture making the milk low quality. If this is what you desire than drink away. I have no desire to eliminate pasteurization from such a product which would make it truly unsafe to drink for people who chose to.
My friend is Marc McAfee at Organic Pastures if you care to look at his operation. He admits some people should not drink raw milk.
Miffed
You wouldn't need to write that much to sidestep my question.
You are side stepping by personally criticizing me vs my argument.I was trying to answer you.
Miffed
You sidestepped my question why you don't drink only distilled water, as that would be the only way to remove pathogens from organisms killed by chlorination or other means of water "purification."
You have not answered at all, but instead
- did try to do reductio ad absurdum by declaring some level of non-sterile intake to be beneficial (ahem, you do have to intake other things than just water, right?)
- you declare your well water to be pure, such as free of coliform bacteria, by definition - don't you believe regularly well water tests would be necessary to make such a claim? What kind of filter do you use on your city water?
- suddenly set pasteurized milk to be generally equal to milk from hormon-treated cows in one big leap
Also on a sidenote you found no concern with OldPharts comment "once a year the dairy cows were injected with erythromycin". So that statement should give me confidence I assume, giving indiscriminate antibiotic doses to avoid or heal... what exactly?
I did not say that. Modern dairy farms are filthy. Their product MUST be pasteurized to be safe to drink. Running a certified raw dairy is very difficult because of the cleanliness required to produce a safe product. Commercial dairies can be sloppy because they rely on pasteurization. Drinking raw milk from a commercial dairy is Russian Roulette.
Miffed
I'm not talking about commercial dairy farms, I'm talking about mom and pop's that used to be everywhere.
And I quoted your "Fork held by cream" line. It's true.
I was speaking to malek. ;-)
Miffed;-)
In Pa, I purchase organic raw milk from the Amish. 7 dollars a gallon. We consume about twelve gallons a month, most of it we convert into keffir. Since I started drinking this homemade keffir about 3 years ago, I haven't gotten sick once. Used to get Winter colds/Flu yearly.
"So you are seriously arguing against pasteurization?"
Fresh, natural food is alive with important chemical compounds which are heat sensitive.
The purpose of Pasteurization is to kill it. Go figure.
Unfortunate for the donkeys who rely on mass gruel.
Please note that the Rothschilds have their own food gardener, and their food comes from the garden to their plate in a few hours.
Edit: note experiment
Squeeze an orange into a glass
pour a glass of pasteurized orange juice
see if you can find anyone who can't taste the difference
alive vs dead
I get 7 eggs a day from my chickens. We give a lot away to my wifes relatives.
Milk should gradually be reduced to about 1/100th of what you are now drinking. Eventually you will find its taste cloying and not at all flavorful. It's not good particklerly for adults, and children need to get away from dairy from the get go.
Occasional dairy is fine, but our dependence on it has more to do with marketing, bread, milk and circuses.
Ice cream however, in the 17-20% butterfat area is a primary food group, however. Yu don't wanna mess with ice cream.
Northern Europe survived on a dairying economy for only what ... 3000 years? If you want to argue about the ecological havoc of bovine ranching that is a different topic.
Investigate the acidification of calcium in milk due to pasteurization.
Such removes calcium from the bones.
150 - 3000 yrs ago 100% organic dairy.
Huge f-ing difference.
Got Broccoli ?
Gruyere at my local Kroger is $28 a pound.
Cheese will be traded along with bullion in the new economy.
there's nothing new in the cheese trade:
"But in this bank, you do not see any cash or diamonds. Instead, the deposits here have a different kind of value.
So valuable that, just like other banks, it has been robbed. Three times.
And what is in this vault? Parmesan cheese. Lots and lots of it - 300,000 blocks or "wheels" of Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese, to be precise, stored on giant shelves."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8228131.stm
miffed, enjoyed your raw milk postings..so few understand alot depends on honest people producing a good product. for raw milk to be safe, you must know those that produce it.
Nearly $30 a # for what smells like my socks after a hike for 3 hours in 90 degree heat??
Most ice cream from the market has chemically treated and extracted corn syrup in it. Not at all healthy for you and milk has got to be better for you than that.
I see this mistaken premise all the time. Since we're online, I have no idea what other posters ancestry is, but if your ancestry is northern European, (or predominantly so) you have no worries about dairy consumption. The rise in lactose intolerance is mainly due the rise in non-European ancestry among the general population.
In other words, if you're a pale-ass cracka, you can drink all the milk you want. It won't hurt you.
Oh but I forgot, race is just a social construct. (rolls eyes)
Heretic!!! Off with your head!!!
Wow, where do you live? I pay $2.50 a gallon for milk and about $2.10 for gas in southern Colorado.
Why would anyone drink milk that contains excessive amount of antibiotics and dangerous growth hormones that are known to cause breast cancer in women and prostate cancer in men? Why would anyone eat dairy products (aka poison)? That insanity simply confirms that most Americans are totally brainwashed stupid fuck.
if you want real milk, you can buy a half gallon of raw milk (what was just milk a hundred years ago) for 18.00 $ in CA.
During 1940s, the best cow in America could produce about four tons of milk annually. Now your average cow, organic or not, can produce 40 tons a year easily. That's your progress/moar, and it's sadly and positively correlated to the rate of breast cancer in women and prostate cancer in men. Wonder why they won't tell you the hidden facts?
We imploded some folks...
Perimetr - While your exaggerating the numbers I agree America is near bottom . I say near because the bond and stock market are due for harsh corrections. Pensioneers in many states are going to take a hit. While all this needs to happen it will have knock-on effects.
I believe the true GDP to be around 11 T and unemployment at 15%. The knock-on will not hurt 80% all that much but think we'll see 10 T GDP which is almost a reversion to the mean of 1999. Also perhaps 18% unemployment. This is already a disaster for the majority of Americans.
Going forward - It is a two tiered economy, a barbell. One will do better to decide to downsize further, work that 30 hour a week jawb and have some free time or spend time educating oneself how the world really works, learn sales and then sell things to rich people.
That is not impossible to break gravity but be prepared to work 50+ hours a week and be prepared for the top to keep you locked out and those below behaving ruthlessly to steal whats earned. Expect to spend 5% of net profit on lawyers and a good accountant to advise how to reinvest to avoid higher taxes. Keep your success to yourself and tell your wife to keep quite too. Buy a modest home and used car if you succeed don't project wealth, project modesty.
I've read about this before, somewhere, oh-yes, it was called The French revolution. The GOV is preparing, that much is obvious.
how many years we got to hear that diatribe. I count 7. still no economic collapse
There is almost no real economy left. We now run on smoke and mirrors where the most important thing is to create the largest lie possible and then push it as hard as you can. I know a lot of small business people who have given up and not play a losing game. I've backed out of the system as far as possible without dropping out completely but that will change soon.
"The truth is that America actually produces very little that is tangible beyond Big Macs, pharmaceuticals and the occasional overpriced fighter jet that doesn’t function correctly and is filled with Chinese parts."
Thank goodness this was written near the beginning of the article, saved me a lot of reading.
The Mechanics Of The Chinese Gold Market https://www.bullionstar.com/blogs/koos-jansen/the-mechanics-of-the-chine...
> socialist and communist countries (same thing)
Only in America.
The author calls-out "Obamacare socialized welfare program..." which tells me right off that this article is little more than a regurgitated list of drivel.
True "socialized" healthcare would have been single-payer, Medicare for all, not this ACA monstrosity disguised as affordible insurance coverage that is nothing more than a gigantic corporate give-away, and another great step forwards into fascism.
Yes, I too believe that many government statistics are so horribly manipulated and removed from reality as to be worse than useless. But this writer loses my support when he engages in his own ape-like hooting and shit-tossing.
With friends like this... fuck 'em.
Do you pay for your own gas, food, clothing, vacations, car lease, car repairs, mortgage, home renovations, cigarettes, beer, wine, pop, and any other shit you want. Fuck you and pay for your own health care. Health care is not a right it is a priviledge, you commie bastard!!
I disagree. Health care should not put people into bankruptcy,
IF the US has set up basic health care like the UK, Canada, France, Sweden, Norway and many other societies did decades ago the access to treatment would not put a family in the poorhouse in the US.
My husband and I pay $130.00/month for coverage. I can go into any hospital or clinic for treatment/x-rays/scans as ordered. Should something be "wrong" I have access to surgery, cancer therapy and whatever else; all covered.
Only bitch is people are demanding better wait times. The "rich" have options if they choose. But the working poor and families do not have to juggle and ponder financial decisions before taking their ill child to emergency,
US is just ensuring insurance companies make even more profit by mandating coverage. This is not universal health care or socialism, Thie is legislated profits to health insurers and for=profit health providers.
Obamacare is a failure. that I do agree.
What you are paying is no way commensurate to the services you are getting. Please take the time and see what these services cost. Your one time chemo treatment will be more than what you pay a year in premiums. When more than what is sustainable demands these services, the system will break. Please do some math. This is the failure of Socialism. It only works when few draw from the system. Insurance works well in healthcare when it provides catastrophic coverage only. However today those plans are now too expensive because it was a way for the young and healthy to have an affordable plan. Now all must pay.
Miffed
the author is right on target--your meds are being paid by another -it is socialism-- one size fits all is socialism-- govt mandates is socialism -- and the total cost being included in GDP is fraudulent reporting/accounting--you sir are full of shit-- fucking troll--
No, I believe that every American deseves a basic level of care as a right.
I believe that employers should not be burdened by requirements to provide "health-care" insurance to their employees, and I feel that employees should not feel compelled to stay with an employer because "health-care" insurance is provided.
I believe that ACA is corporate welfare at its finest.
I believe that insurance companies are parasites, bottom-feeding shit-suckers that rank nearly as bad as paid-off legislators and child-molesters.
Fucking Faux Nuz viewers have reading comprehension for shit...
I believe that I should not be FORCED to pay for your beliefs
By calling it a right, someone must pay. When things are labeled rights things get out of whack and personally responsibility seems to wane. Food, water, housing are not rights. They are necessities but not rights. Big difference.
Miffed
right on Miffed--with out a strawman the socialist would not know what to think and without "rights and banning" they would be at a loss for which action to take--socialists are truly pathetic --
What you believe in is totalitarianism, because you think you know what everyone deserves.
What you believe in is freeloading, because someone else should pay for your benefits.
What you believe in is slavery, because healthcare providers MUST provide services at whatever rate you get around to setting, not a free market.
What you believe in is irrelevant, since it cannot actually work.
Believe all you want, anything you want, and be willing to die for it; I am not willing to die for YOUR beliefs. I am willing for YOU to die for your beliefs.
Is that in the fine print of the Constitution?
I cannot seem to find health care in my copy.
Yes a true public health scheme would have one single provider, (like the UK, Canada, France and much of the "civilized" world), I agree that Obamacare is nothing more than a profit gaurantee for various insurance companies,
From what I have seen the monthly premium cost is outrageous, So far as I can see US is still going to put people into bankruptcy with medical costs; but this time making it mandatory or gaurantee insurance company profits,
Canada varies from province to province, But British Columbia (my apologies that the chart did not paste correctly. However it still reads....anyone under $22K income pays no premium. Over $22K-$24K one person pays 12.80/month; family of 2 pays $23.20 and a family of 3 or more pays $25.60......and down the unformatted table, to the max premium of $144/month for a family of 3 or more with income over $30K).
BC Medical Services Plan Monthly Premiums
Effective January 1, 2015
Adjusted Net Income (individual or couple)
One
Person
Family
of 2
Family of
3 or More
first $22,000
no premium
no premium
no premium
over $22,000 up to $24,000
$12.80
$23.20
$25.60
over $24,000 up to $26,000
25.60
46.40
51.20
over $26,000 up to $28,000
38.40
69.60
76.80
over $28,000 up to $30,000
51.20
92.80
102.40
over $30,000
72.00
130.50
144.00
This does not include a drug plan. and ambulance service charges are coming under fire around Canada.
And also please bear in mind. Canada, Sweden, UK etc. decades ago, when times were rosy made the choice to direct tax dollars towards health care.
USA made the choice to forgo health care and give the $$$ to weapons, imperialism, Wall Street and ultiamtely into the pockets of politicians and lobbyist,
Anyone in US who thinks they have lived in a free/democratic society for the last 70 years is deluded.
I remember back in the late 90's an economist said the even then the only jobs added to the economy were in healthcare and that if the government ever took it (healthcare) over it would be game, set and match for the US economy forever. Sort of like Perot predicting if you pass NAFTA you'll hear a giant sucking sound for decades to some. You can make numbers say anything but you can't hide true economic devastation from years of corruption.
Math is a 4-letter word.
It will be healthcare, the banks, anything politicians can get their greasy little mitts on, by justify doing so to the public, they will.
Any semi-literate jackass who can lie, brown-nose and manipulate in articulate ways can be a politician. Banking takes financial (and hence mathematical) knowledge. Healthcare takes years of medical and technical knowledge.
Jim Rogers said it best.. "What is wrong with these people? They can't even run the post office. How will they run a bank?"
Yeah nice "stat" you bring out of thin air.
It does not stand up. Some economist predicts that healthcare would bankrupt US? Well hate to inform you but the US is bankrupt, The for-profit health care system itself created many jobs and many millionaires and many bankrupt families,
But you got some nukes.
And to pair that 90's prediction with Mr. Perot's observation regarding NAFTA is faulty. Nice try but no bananas; no logic,
the for profit health care system with the gov't picking winners and losers --- big health/pharma/tort the winner and you --well you know where you come in.
And it seems Mr Perot was right.
OT: Protests are expected in Atlanta today against Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny, who is the grand marshal of its St. Patrick's Day parade. Kenny's metering of water in Ireland, which benefits crony billionaire Dennis O'Brian, is apparently the final straw for the Irish who are fed up with EU austerity. The comments on the Local Atlanta news link below are worth a read.
http://www.11alive.com/story/news/local/2015/03/14/irish-prime-minister-...