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Tsipras Slams “Crimes Of Third Reich And Hitler’s Hordes", Threatens Seizure Of German Assets
Earlier today, despite fears that it may not find enough cash to fund its latest T-Bill rollover, Greece was able to sell €1.3 billion of three-month Treasury bills, covering the amount it wanted to refinance a maturing issue, in what Reuters dubbed was an "auction that tested its ability to raise funds amid a cash crunch." The paper came at a higher cost as the T-bills were priced to yield 2.70 percent, up 20 basis points from 2.50 percent in a previous sale in February, the country's debt agency PDMA said.
However, this latest funding appears to have brought Greek funds to a critical low level because roughly at the same time news broke that Greek Justice Minister Nikos Paraskevopoulos said he is ready to sign an older court ruling that will enable the foreclosure of German assets in Greece in order to compensate the relatives of victims of Nazi crimes during the Second World War.
As Kathimerini reports, Greece's Supreme Court ruled in favor of Distomo survivors in 2000, but the decision has not been enforced. Distomo, a small village in central Greece, lost 218 lives in a Nazi massacre in 1944.
“The law states that in order to implement the ruling of the Supreme Court, the minister of justice has to order it. I believe this permission should be given and I’m ready to give it, notwithstanding any obstacles," Paraskevopoulos told Antenna TV on Wednesday.
“There must probably be some negotiation with Germany,” said Paraskevopoulos, who first announced his intention Tuesday during a Parliament debate on the creation of a committee to seek war reparations, the repayment of a forced loan and the return of antiquities.
Some background on the story from Keep Talking Greece:
On Tuesday, Greek Justice Minister Nikos Paraskevopoulos said that he was ready to sign an older decision issued in year 2000 by Greece’s Highest Court Areios Pagos that enables confiscation of German state property in Greece. The court decision confirmed the First Instance Court decision of 1997 that had ruled that Germany had to pay €28 million to descendants of the Distomo massacre.
On 10 June 1944, Waffen SS killed 218 men, women and children of Distomo village, in reprisal for attacks by resistance fighters.
“The confiscation of German property in Greece would affect the Goethe Institute and the German Schools in Athens and Thessaloniki,” Greek media report.
Speaking to ANT1 TV this morning, Paraskevopoulos said that the court decision needs only the signature of the Justice Minister in order to go in effect. However he implied that this will not be done immediately.
According to Greek media, already in 2000, PASOK Justice Minister had signed the court decision and a justicial clerk appeared at the door of Goethe Institute in Athens.
“However, the Justice minister withdrew his signature. after a couple of days later Germany approved the entrance of Greece to the Euro zone,” notes Proto Thema.
But the Justice Minister and every Justice Minister has to take into consideration the impact on bilateral relations.
Also on Tuesday, deputy Defense Minister Kostas Ysichos said that the ministry has the so-called Wehrmacht- Archive, an archive of 400,000 records of the German occupation, that is currently in the process of digitilization.
Clearly this would not set a favorable precedent for wealth redistribution within the European "Union."
As KTG succinctly observes, "The decision comes amid a frozen atmosphere between Greece and Germany over bailout reforms and a series of insults spoken by German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble against his couPnterpart Yanis Varoufakis."
During the same debate, Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras expressed his government’s firm intention to seek war reparations from Germany, noting that Athens would show sensitivity that it hoped to see reciprocated from Berlin.
Then again, "sensitive" is hardly how one would characterize his speech: when speaking before Parliament, Tsipras accused Germany of using legal tricks to avoid paying reparations for the Nazi occupation of Greece and said he would support parliamentary efforts to review the matter.
“After the reunification of Germany in 1990, the legal and political conditions were created for this issue to be solved. But since then, German governments chose silence, legal tricks and delay. And I wonder, because there is a lot of talk at the European level these days about moral issues: is this stance moral?” Tsipras said and added that "despite the crimes of the Third Reich and Hitler’s hordes, the German debt was written off".
Germany has repeatedly rejected Greek calls for WWII reparations claiming that “war compensations to individuals was settled with the Agreement of 1960? and the “Agreement of 1990.”
However, “the Agreement of 1960 covered only compensation for the individual victims of Nazi horrors, not the destruction wrought on Greece during the 1941-1944 occupation and the enforced loan,” Tsipras said.
Why is Greece pushing for any recovery on the reparations front? Because the amount for the cash-strapped, and now desperate, country could be substantial: "according to some sources, the Greek claims from Germany are estimated €269 – €332 billion. In April 2013, after the investigation committee concluded its work, newspaper To Vima reported that the Greek claim was 162 billion euro."
To Vima stressed to have seen the findings and reports that the experts found that Germany should pay Greece 108 billion euros for damage to infrastructure and 54 billion euros for a loan that the Nazi occupation forces obliged Greece to take in order to pay Berlin during the war.
In other words, the reparations are equivalent to about 80 percent of Greek gross domestic product.
Clearly this is merely the initial Greek ask. It would settle for anything. However, judging by the less than frosty German response, it will get exactly nothing: as Bloomberg reports, Germany views Greek reparations claims related to World War II as closed, Chancellor Angela Merkel’s spokesman Steffen Seibert says. "Germany has made its stance known and is sticking with it." FinMin spokesman Martin Jaeger added that Germany "won’t negotiate on Greek claims because “this chapter is legally and politically closed as far as we’re concerned" adding that "Germany is very aware” of “moral responsibility” for legacy of Nazi era but that doesn’t change govt’s legal and political assessment."
This is ironic considering just two days ago...
German Chancellor #AngelaMerkel reminds Japan to face its wartime past during her two-day visit. pic.twitter.com/0fTM72xFs8
— CCTVNEWS (@cctvnews) March 10, 2015
Sarcasm aside, digging up old wounds will merely accelerate the (less than) amicable parting of ways, especially after a speech earlier by ECB's Draghi in which he said that ECB bond buying "may be shielding countries in the euro zone from any knock-on effect from events in Greece, ECB President Mario Draghi said on Wednesday."
Which simply means that just because European government bond yields are on their way to 0% or below, the ECB is now convinced that any Greek leverage has been lost, and the more Greece pushes, the more likely the divorce finally takes place, even if a Grexit ultimately does open up a whole new can of worms because as Italy's Padoan said yesterday, a "Euro exit would show that the Euro is not irreversible." But we'll cross that particular bridge once we get to it.
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This is exactly what it is. Syriza posturing for the paesants while they let the Germans dictate conditions.
It's WAR!
No ITS MORE BS
I thought only Jews were entitled to German reparations *confused*
General Paton: "We fought a wrong enemy." He was right. Nazi Germany has lost and the white race is on a verge of extermination.
Paton was a pretty smart dude -figured a lot of things out-and was figuring out more and talking too much -so they offed him. Surprised they didn't call it a suicide.
While we're talking about war reparations the Greeks owe a great deal to the Sicilians for the damages caused during the Punic Wars in which Greek Tyrants conquered and ruled over the Sicilians between 600 and 200 BC.
France will take the "high road".... returning all stolen Artifacts now inside the Louvre and across Paris.
Is it me or do I keep hearing the Russian National Anthem playing in the background?
The day may come when the USSA is paying out reparations to the descendents of those we massacre in the middle east, Ukraine, etc etc etc.
The people who actually ordered the massacres will pay nothing. Poor fucking Kilroys like us will get stuck with paying the bill to the victors.
too bad the greeks aren't jews...otherwise they'd now be receiving every 'stolen' art work in bavaria, every dolphin class sub the huns can churn out, german citizenship, billions, billions and yes more billions in reparations. now, if some clever feta-eater could only find the courage to claim that more greeks were killed in olive oil fired ovens than existed in the ww2 census, and then double that number over again with 'survivors', they'd get some $$ympathy! p.s. apparently you don't even need facts or data to back your claim. just come up with a number and jail anyone who dares challenge it. it will also help if you make some documentaries and play them on endless loop -- it would also behoove you to force every student in every grade to attend all screenings...you'll need some lamp shades stretched with greek skin; some soap rendered from greek fat; the diary of helena anadropolis; toss in the testimony of those numberless survivors....and, voila!, you've got your reparations ad infinitum.
I know someone that has a friend who had a great grandmother that a Nazi soldier hit on for a late night Wienerschnitzel (with extra sauerkrout) #4 dinner and 4 drafts of Erdinger while Wagner played on a Victrola in the background, and then, without any warning, and while they were eating, an allied plane dropped a gut full of white phosphor bombs on the restaurant and fried her date, leaving my friend's acquantance's great grandmother stuck with the tab, and they hadn't even served dessert yet. Since one person is my friend and knows someone whose great grandmother got stuck with the tab (without even being allowed dispute the dessert charge because the pantry lady was a cigarette ash) when her date turned into "stick boy", am I entitled to some of that Nazi doulble remote acquaintance hardship pay back moola moola too?
Remember those stories of inherited memory claims where some inadequacy complexed dominion heretic was suing to get a taste of the ole Nazi reparations pie because the "horror of the camps" was genetically passed from the camper to them?
From the sublime to warp drive ludicrous. Amazing!
Very funny dick head. People did actually suffer losses during the war. It might be a tad of an overreach to ask for compensation now, though.
That's ?Mister Dick Head", please. Yeah Germans suffered really bad - post WWII Germany makes palestine look like a Disneyland. 20 Million Germans Dead. 40 (maybe 60) Million Russians dead. and it all start over this news item. Germany finally helped ZOG Germanic Terrorists move to Palestine (on the SS Tel Aviv - loaded them up with machine tools and bags of German Marks). German Jewery was left to feed the need for western genocide, or, for the lucky germans, the refugee camps that followed the fire bombings.
In Slaughter House FIve, Kurt Vonnegut's main character narrates flashbacks of his experience as an allied POW in Dresden and recalls that fortunate Germans. Jews or otherwise, got jobs in the syrup factories and huffed the sugary beet ambrosia down like there was no tomorrow (which in fact became the case in most cases). There's a chapter dedicated to the main characters escape and recollection of Dresden during the allied fire bombing.
This Jew calls the false narrative of contrived 20th century history "The Big Lie".
OBTW - Now that we're on "conversational" terms, you don't have to be so formal, just call me "Dick". A lady friend of yours calls me "Mr. Good DIck"!:)
The English stole my ancestor's Irish farm in Kerry in 1849, I'm want it back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Al Sharpton wants some of that racist Nazi money too.
Don't put Patton on a pedestal. Like Hollywood decided you should. Look up his role in the Bonus Army massacre.
1. Nice try deliberately twisting false racial context into Patton's comment, by not including the fact that he was referring to the Soviet Union.
2. Your lack of knowledge about Patton doesn't suprise me; you didn't even bother to spell his name correctly.
The Cheetah and the Thompson's Gazelle.
The Cheetah has it's jaws around the neck of the gazelle. The gazelle is still kicking mightily, but to no avail.
That is where we are right about now.
Take a guess who is who.
pods
yup and the Tompson's Gazelles are too ignorant to have a clue they are already a meal
Greece may go full Ississ on those Germans. Corner a rat and see what they do.
I put Tspiras' word right up there with Ronald McDonald and Bernie Madoff
Reparations are only for white people to pay .... that's RAYCISS !
Greeks are pulling their version of the Merikan Race Card.
Yankus Viralfukas now has a good fantasy for a new video game. That is the only way this "claim" will raise cash.
The Greek bailout/exit negotiations have reached inanity level: full internet, which is marked by the use of the "B-B-B-B-B-BUT HITLER!" strategy.
I'm of two minds on this; on one hand some people that were not involved will be stealing from others that were not involved.
On the other hand, fuck you Germany.
Let me help you with that--fuck you lying, cheating, rotten assed banker scum.
You are welcome.
For some reason I don't think these "reparations" are planned to reach the actual relatives
of those massacred.
I've got this nagging suspicion they'll end up in the hands of bankers, if paid.
No idea where I get that idea from.
Come on, let's reparate some folks. Fine art, vintage retsina, metakas for everybody.
Bunch of fucking muppets.
1-385-844-7448... Ask for Vladimir.
Tsipras wants to be a German Viceroy.
Oh I get it; I'm going to take YOUR toys and go home. Not!
Speaking of Hitler
http://humansarefree.com/2015/02/fbi-quietly-declassified-secret-files.html#more
" On April 30 1945, Adolf Hitler committed suicide in his underground bunker. His body was later discovered and identified by the Soviets before being rushed back to Russia. Or was it? Newly declassified FBI documents prove that the government knew Hitler was alive and well, and living in the Andes Mountains long after World War II. Is it really possible that the Soviets have been lying all this time, and that history has purposely been rewritten? No one thought so until the release of the FBI documents. It seems that it is possible that the most hated man in history escaped war torn Germany and lived a bucolic and peaceful life in the beautiful foothills of the Andes Mountains. The Intelligence Community Knew Recently released FBI documents are beginning to show that not only was Hitler and Eva Braun’s suicide faked, the infamous pair might have had help from the Swiss Director of the United States OSS himself, Allen Dulles. In one FBI document from Los Angles, it is revealed that the agency was well aware of a mysterious submarine making its way up the Argentinian coast dropping off high level Nazi officials. What is even more astonishing is the fact that the FBI knew he was in fact living in the foothills of the Andes. Who is the Mysterious Informant? In a Los Angeles letter to the Bureau in August of 1945, an unidentified informant agreed to exchange information for political asylum. What he told agents was stunning. The informant not only knew Hitler was in Argentina, he was one of the confirmed four men who had met the German submarine. Apparently, two submarines had landed on the Argentinian coast, and Hitler with Eva Braun was on board the second. The Argentinian government not only welcomed the former German dictator, but also aided in his hiding. The informant went on to not only give detailed directions to the villages that Hitler and his party had passed through, but also credible physical details concerning Hitler. While for obvious reasons the informant is never named in the FBI papers, he was credible enough to be believed by some agents. The FBI Tried to Hide Hitler’s Whereabouts Even with a detailed physical description and directions the FBI still did not follow up on these new leads. Even with evidence placing the German sub U-530 on the Argentinian coast shortly before finally surrounding, and plenty of eye witness accounts of German official being dropped off, no one investigated. - See more at: http://humansarefree.com/2015/02/fbi-quietly-declassified-secret-files.h...
Yeah, not as much ended in 1945 as you might've been led to believe. Heck, there's evidence of Martin Bormann cashing a check via Deutsche Bank in Buenos Aires in 1967. I'd recommend checking out Joseph Farrell's Reich of the Black Sun and Nazi International. Also several books from Peter Levenda.
what's worse, and for all his proper german manners, adolph apparantly never bothered to learn spanish. shame on him!
time for kenya to sue the US for stealing people from its country 300 years ago.
How about we simply give them their people back, and with Interest too!
LOL, you greeks so funny, your not even jewish, goy never get paid..ironic
i can think of one kenyan who should be on the first ship back...but, and sorry to be such a nerd, most 'african americans' are descendants of west-africans...the features of nigerians, ghaneese, etc. are almost identical to those found in amorica's blacks. kenyans and other east africans are a whole different kettle of fish...i only wish we'd gone around the cape and taken them instead; assuming we had to take any at all. think of it like this: east africans are to west africans what the dutch are to bulgarians.
They were sold by their own....oops not
suppose to tell that part of the story.
Let's talk about who largely ran the merchant ships that moved them.
Obama's great great great-grandfather?
Speaking of selling out your own...
Ever notice that of the 3 Abrahamic faiths, people from 2 of the 3 will sell each other out? Those from the 3rd stick together like white on rice.
There's a lesson in there somewhere.
Asia and Egypt just called...
They want back everything Alexander the Great stole from them 2300 years ago...
"time for kenya to sue the US for stealing people from its country 300 years ago."
Jeeezus, I hope that was sarcasm.
Wrong coast of Africa, it was Omani Arabs doing ALL the slave trading around that region then and there was no such thing as a Kenya (it was conquered land, by arabs and persians) and there was no such thing as "the US" 300yrs ago either.
Try the arabs ;-)
It's never too late.
Whatever little sympathy that I had left for the Greeks, just evaporated. 70 years after WW2 ended, those lazy and corrupt bastards finally wake up? WTF?! You couldn't make this up even if you tried...
americans didn't wake up even after 70 years, so you need to shut up
No need to wake up, you guys have Goldman Sachs!
...and the printing press.
If Greece pays compensations for the war crimes of Alexander the Great first, then Germany will have to pay too.
Enough jokes, Greeks have won hundreds of billions in purchasing power through the Euro (the Drachma would have been devaluated several times), purchasing power that has been lost by the Germans, since the Euro is a lot to weak for them. There are estimations that Germans have lost a value of 4 Trillion Euros that way in the years since the Euro intro. That's why french newspaper Le Figaro called Maastricht to be "Versailles sans guerre" (Versailles without war = huge reparations as after WWI). Isn't that enough, fellow Greeks?
Whatever the Greeks are culpable for, it pales in comparison to what our financial master are and have been doing for decades. After all what's a subtle moral distinction between members of the fight club. Take your Billy Buck and ride in the direction of those windmills yonder.
Exactly. Everyone is getting wrapped up in the details of the story, igoring that the bankers' sytem made all of this crap possible.
BANKERS, BANKERS,BANKERs, BANKERSS, BANKERS, BANKERS.
I doubt that really helped anyone refocus, but I can try.
Victim complex. Has never helped anyone, except the victimizers. You can only be a victim of the same scam so many times before the sympathy dries up. Fool me once...
Plebs have been falling for the same scam for (at least) 200 human generations and counting. It's long past time to admit the problem lies elsewhere - total abdication and rejection of even one iota of responsibility for one's (political and economic) life. Democracy has helped tremendously in revealing this truth - that democracy changes absolutely nothing, but forces the plebs into a state of cognitive dissonance, apathy, and willful ignorance when confronted with the yawning gap between the laughable rhetoric of individual political responsibility and the even more laughable reality of its nonexistence. Just like god, the people are conveniently only responsible when the outcome is favorable. The rest of the time, enemies must be invented in infinite succession.
Bankster, banksters, everywhere and yet not a drop of their blood in the name of justice. Only those who have been suicided to keep the truth from getting out.
Well a little perspective is needed here my schnitzelfaced friend. Zee Germans actually did take a forced loan during zeir occupation of Greece an actually had the courtesy of specifying the conditions for its repaiment as they did in Yugoslavia, Poland and other countries who all got repayed after the war. Now take note this is a FORCED LOAN and not war reparations and it has never been repaid only to one country out of the lot of countries zee Germans occupied. Ill let you guess which country that is. As for war REPARATIONS, they have no chance in International Courts as Greeece and the rest of Europe essentially forgave them in 1991 when Germany reunified. It was actually a success of the then German govt who never signed peace treaties with the rest of the european nations, something which would open the way for war reparation law suits for the war crimes they had commited. FYI the forced loan zee Germans took from Greece has been valued between 15 und 35 billion eurotrash, depending on how one calculates the details of zee loan contract drawn up by zee meticulous Germanz...
Charlz.
Greek desperation is showing. If they have difficulty raising 1.3 billion Euros, how will they ever pay off their debt of $240 billion Euros? Besides Greece needs about 50 billion Euros this year alone. It is running out of options very fast and hence this desperate ploy to extract reparations out of Germany.
They are behaving like clowns. They should just get on with what has to be done and be done with it.
Churchill deliberately starved 4 million Indians to death during World War II and that accounted for more than 90% of the casualties of the British Empire during World War II. Reparations owed to India by the British will run into the trillions:
Madhusree Mukerjee’s book [Churchill’s Secret War: The British Empire and the Ravaging of India during World War II, New York, Basic Books, 2010] is not a denunciation of British rule of India, but a meticulous chronicling of the role of the British Raj in furthering a famine in Bengal, and suppressing the fact that this deliberate holocaust took 4 million lives.
http://www.vijayvaani.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?aid=1396
I'm Irish, do I get paid for the
deliberate starvation of a million people
during "potato famine"?
I have Irish lineage as well as German and Danish. Should I just pay myself?
One of the first jokes I told Mrs. pods:
Hey, you look Irish, do you have any Irish in you?"
"No."
"Want some?"
:)
pods
So romantic, great story to tell the grand kids one day.
There is a procedure for just this sort of situation. First, build a "government" agency funded by the German part of you. Make sure it is large, bloated, and mostly useless. Proceed to declare reparations are due from the German part of you to the Irish part of you. This works best if you can find some Kuhn in your heritage. Proceed with the transfer payment. Make sure 85% of it is misdireted into the pet pork projects of the agency funded by the German part of you. When the payment is complete (to the 15% level), tax that 15%. For best results, rinse and repeat.
My family emmigrated from the Slave Pits of Lithuania.
Do I get paid?
The Irish part should securitize the claim against the German part. Then it can settle with the German side so that the German side only pays a fixed interest against the claim and the capital is repayable at the discretion of the German side (as in never). Then the Irish side can bundle this perpetual security with a CDS against a German default. Now since the Irish side has a risk free cash flow generating instrument it can proceed to use it as collateral to lever it self about 60:1, lend it back to Germany as senior debt and also underwrite a new CDS against newly issued German debt, which bundled with with the senior debt can be marketed as a risk free investment and priced at net negative interest rates. Then both your Irish side and German side can go to the Fed and ask for a bailout, or systemic risk happens. You get payed from both sides, the Fed saves the day once more, and gold gets monkeyhammered because, reasons.
Elegant yet simple plan.
@Ward Cleaver The abundant Irish harvests and livestock were taken at the time to feed British troops who were fighting wars planned and managed by The City/Rothschilds. Potatoes kept the population alive until a rapidly moving potato disease destroyed them all.Then they had nothing hence widespread starvation. One county was so badly hit that every last person in it starved to death. The 6 year famine caused the Irish population to drop by 1 million. The Corn Laws added to the disaster. What came out of it was organized resistance that lasted 100 years.
All of this started when Cromwell handed over London to his paymasters the central bankers. When the Rothschilds caught the whif of money potential out of England they set up shop and have controlled the Brits--military and civilians alike--ever since. Ireland was just the grocery store.
You mean the ...s had something to do with it?
Couldn't be as they r not known for cashing in on
human misery.
The system launches another major attack on Greece
Sure, it's always "the system", the Jews, the Masons, the Reptilians, and everyone else. It's never our fucking fault.
Ab-so-lu-te-ly. I'm getting sick and tired of this "blame the others" reflex. Jews seem to the target of choice lately on ZH, but they're certainly not the only ones. I see it here and I hear it everywhere in daily life these days: it's "them", not us.
You want change? Start with yourself, then start whining about others.
But that requires thought, diligence and perseverance. Bitching out others is so much easier...
The "system" is just a term to describe the dominant tension each period of human history. It is a complex mixture of people, ideas, perceptions, ideologies that dominate each era. It has nothing to do with Jews, Masons, secret groups who are taking decisions in some kind of dark rooms. The article does not refer to Jews, or secret societies and other conspiracy theories. On the contrary, this perception to demonize everything that is attacking this dominant system as a "conspiracy theory", is probably a self-defence by the system itself because it "feels" that its domination is threatened.
Nice ad hominem attack on the guys blog post and Greek citizens. So here's mine: You are a fucking moron, go hug your precious euros like a good muppet.
I suppose you don't have a job. I also suppose that you can't find one because you are totally useless. You're welcome.
And BTW, for your continued education, THIS is an ad hominem attack, you shithead. My previous post was SARCASM.
And your job allows you to post ad hominem attacks on zerohedge comment sections.
LOL you're a clown, go back to bitching on facebook or whatever it is you do.
Yes, I'm allowed to comment on Zerohedge during business hours, because I'm the boss in my company. Any other questions?
yes, where is this ad hom that he is talking about? that's the damn third time I'm looking for it
WB7
I've never marked a comment of yours down before.
I did today.
I agree they need to start figuring out how to get out. This could be a stall for time, this could be throwing sand in Germany's face, hoping some of it sticks. Rile up their emotions, get them to do something stupid, create a break in the action. The whole situation is hypocritical all around. This move places that reality in our faces.
The truth is, both sides are clowns, we are clowns. The whole shit show is a clown show: ISIS, Ukraine, Obama making an enemy out of every other country on earth.
The planet is writhing under the jack-boot heel of the bankers. The whole story keeps us arguing about these details. As long as we argue, Greece burns, and so do we. We need to get on with owning the failure, I agree. But the Greeks are special clowns and the problem? Nah.
I agreez und zey seem to have a point too. They where the only occupied country in Europe who never got repaid the loan forced upon them by zee Germans. As for war reparations I think ze answer will be NEIN NEIN NEIN.
Greece doesn't need any euros, they can print drachmas tomorrow. They're both paper promises from people that won't keep them, so what's the difference? It's theater for the Goy who is supposed to think this is really, really serious.
A lot of people that were promised shit aren't going to get it, that's all there is to it.
Just tell the British Museum they must rent the Elgin Marbles from them.....forever and ever.......at least it would be some form of income.
And this time they mean it!!
Fuck off Syriza.
Greece,
Just do it. Enough with the idle threats already.
Dear Prime Minister of Greece, Mr. Tsipras. You have been appointed by the freshly elected Greek Parliament to lead the Greek Cabinet of Ministers, and you are now one of the EuroCrats of the EU
Has your Finance Minister, Mr. Varoufakis, put the Greek Finance Ministry in order? Are taxes coming in? Are you doing your homework?
I'm asking because in Germany, France, Spain and so on there are ugly voices whispering that your team has not even a clue what your financial situation is
the political honeymoon ends, eventually. You are now government, not radicals on the street asking for "something has to be done" or campaigning for elections
with the fervent hope that your government will do lots of good things, yours truly, Ghordius
Just like Obama who finds out about stuff when he reads an article on Google News.
There is more truth to your post than might be obvious. There is an overpowering mentality of "being the opposition" among the SYRIZA ranks, after so many years of protesting against incumbent governments. It is indeed very difficult to switch to running the show, especially if the majority of executives (ministers and deputies) have NO previous managerial experience apart from managing their party's committees. But in order to be fair, there are a few smart people among them, who DO have some good ideas about how to run the country. Unfortunately you don't hear about them in the news.
BTW, it seems strange to me that Tsipras has been mostly quiet apart from throwing a few fireworks here and there, like the one in this article. He hasn't publicly addressed HIS government that much although he has addressed the people of Greece and the EU a few times.
BTW2, it is also very strange that we get weekly polls published about how much we like our new government, made on behalf of the papers that have been supporting SYRIZA for the last 15 years. Other media outlets have not run any polls yet.
skistroni, it's always a... shock in the fabric of a state when completely new political parties takes over, and the same shock is in the rank-and-file of the supporters of such parties
interestingly, the other EuroCrats made noises in this direction, headed by Merkel highlighting that the first steps are very, very difficult, for any government of "freshmen"
so all in all, most european governments expect, up to a certain point, to hear Tsipras still in "radical/election" mode... just so that the followers don't experience a "cold turkey"
the one man that has to deliver is anyway Varoufakis. We'll see if the Economics Professor from Australia gets a workable budget out of his shambolic ministry. I'm hopeful
Of course Varoufakis is going to deliver...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afl9WFGJE0M
I like Monty Python. I now know why.
They should demand reparations for Thermopylae too from Persia errr.. Turkey.
Germans are tapped-out giving all their money to Israel anyway, the Greeks should ask the Jews if they are willing to share.
share? jews? debt is not money..you can't just print up a bunch, er well wait...
Does this mean that Iran is entitled to reparations over Alexander's campaign?
Why?
I'm sure their women spread their legs for the Reich, same as the French ones.
Too soon?
Looks like the Greeks are going Jewish. How long has Israhell lived off the false claims made against Germany for the supposed holohoax? Shall we all now sue for false history or for historical wrongs. Actually that's been going on in America for a long time with every group of losers whining they are entitled to special privileges because of something - like bringing civilization - whitey did to them. I agree this smacks of desperation on the part of the Greeks. They need to leave the Euro and run their own country according to what they can really afford, as do we all.
Actually, Jewish claims on Germany were real enough, and still are. The amount confiscated from European Jews and never compensated comes to something like USD400 billion after seventy years of interest, over 10 per cent of German GDP, enough to pay off Israel's national debt in full and leave them with a sovereign wealth fund worth 75 per cent of Israeli GDP.
US military aid is a relative pittance---at most USD3 billion a year---and mostly goes right back into the pockets of US arms manufacturers.
How much of that USD400 billion should the Isrealis be obliged to hand straight over to the Palestinians as compensation for Israel's ongoing crimes?
And why would the State of Israel be entitled to reparations that are owed to Jewish individuals?
What a wacky world we inhabit.
None.
Is that because Arabs don't feel pain the way Jews do?
How ironic for a card-carrying khazar bolshevik savage to have an icon name of Divine Wind.
Jews murdered 20 to 60 million Russians under communism and confiscated their lives and their wealth. When are you going to pay for that?
Yup. Each and every one of those Russian leaders were observant Jews. Stalin, Beria, Lenin, Khruschev, Zhukov, etc. So observant, that many Jewish peasants fled the country--my grandparents being among them.
Though I doubt it will happen with you and most ZH'rs, learn some fucking history.
The figures for seizures of Jewish property - the ones you're using - were dreamt up by the "survivors" and bear no relation to reality. Think about it. What could the Germans have seized? Ownership of real estate and bank deposits could not survive the post-War reconfiguration. So what was left? Gold, paintings etc. These represent just a minute fraction of the figures you quote.
The reality is that the Germans have been robbed blind for most of the 20th century and are still to this day paying off hucksters in Israel with their phony demands for reparations.
I really don't understand WHY JEWS only have the right to claim? They were BEFORE WW2 the citizens of different countries. So countries are the representatives of such caims. For example Poland never got compensations for the damage done by Germans (NOT NAZI!!!). And the claim would be plenty of billions $. The lost of Poland (in people number, in territory) was the biggest between all the countries...
No, actually, they're not, just so we're clear.
All I'm saying is that back in the real world Greece needs to get in line behind a lot of people, Jewish and Gentile. What Germany owes the rest of Europe in war damages would wipe out Germany's banksters several times over---which is precisely why they refuse to cough up the money.
The only reason the Jews got a cent was that the banksters needed a PR coup to escape accusations of responsibility for bankrolling Hitler's war machine (along with the Holocaust). Those Jews lucky enough to survive the war clearly wouldn't have survived long in the miserable Middle Eastern reservation they were to be dispatched to without the kindness of strangers. Letting the Jews starve or be massacred in Palestine wouldn't have left the impression that the PTB had loooooved the Jews all along.
Today, of course, Israel gets military aid mostly because the Israelis had the good sense to develop nuclear weapons, and have made clear that if the banksters acquiesce to Holocaust 2.0, among its first victims will be the banksters themselves.
Alas, if you don't have a Samson Option, nobody in DC or Brussels much cares what you think.
Stop you are making to much sense . and have a grasp on history ..... in fact the Nuremberg Trials stopped when they got to the industrialists.. Chief Justice Robert Jackson who became chief officer at the trials said in one of his papers two things.. as we were going into the Cold War .. trying the industrialists would make capitalist West look bad. and 2.... the trail of funding the Third Reich led to approx... 26 US companies among them IBM .. Ford.. GE .. Standard Oil.. the latter having been cited by a court in the late 40s for trading with the enemy and providing them with technology they did not make available to the allies... nothing happened.. they got a slap on the wrist the th Rockefeller clain marched on .. that bunch fund every sort of horror from eugenics to enviromentalismto globalist end of nation state crap. If you want to know who the real enemy is . look no further than the Euro elite and our own ..
Exactly. The Jews mostly had the misfortune of being a church and bankster-approved scapegoat, approved because, until after WWII, they were unable to fight back when the banksters goaded the sheeple into anti-Semitic riots as a distraction from problems caused by the banksters themselves.
Anti-Semitism is far and away our masters' oldest disinformation campaign. Why ZHers with the sense to know better still fall for it I'll never know.
Give it a few more years of depression, and Greek public opinion will eventually realize the truth, and swing the pendulum towards the return of the Drachma. Otherwise they will have to bear this continued humiliation, and Greeks are famous for their pride so I don't see being in the EZ as a viable long term solution for them or any parties involved.
EZ should man up, cease with the "one way" mantras and work on doing something useful like formulating and facilitating a smoother exit clause in the Lisbon Treaty whereby one can exit the EZ yet still be part of the EU. But they have their heads up their asses instead.
would you lend to Greece in Drachmas? or does your scheme - which would be against the Greek electorate's wishes - tend towards... balanced budgets?
as a reminder, Greece is paying IMF loans back, this year. Funny stuff, IMF loans. When they are loaned, they are often called... "US Taxpayer Money"
note the contrast between this and the EU countries loans, which pay no interest until 2023. just saying, and yes, EZ exit is not EU exit. but does the Greek People want any exits?
The best chance at getting a balanced budget is to wipe the slate clean and default, start from scratch and try again...
Greek history shows a tendency towards default, but still doesn't mean all hope is lost. You can't have a sustainable "balanced budget" pattern and have this huge odious debt overhang at the same time.
With such track records, maybe countries like GReece should not have been admitted into the one way club in the first place, but whose fault is that? The one lying to get in or the one aware of the lying and allowing them in anyway?
I'm not sure if you note the differences between private debt and sovereign debt, or how defaults are resolved in the various cases
default would force a balanced budget and make some immediate problems worse. just today, for example, Greece was able to raise nearly two billions on the "markets"
in the current situation, a balanced budget is a demand from creditors, also called "hateful austerity". over which Tsipras and Varoufakis are still haggling with the other EuroCrats
Instead how about future Greek Governments spending only what they take in by way of taxes?
Then again, no Government does that.
The greek people didn't vote for that. They voted for more free shit, and the end of that dreadful austerity thingy.
No elected government in the world could survive a cash balanced budget, because the electorate thinks it is entitled to more.
Go ahead, Alexis. Make Merkel's day and get yourself lynched by your own army.
Moving on:
The most charitable explanation I can think of for the German approach to reforming Greece is that they're pursuing the model used to "reform" the GDR. Essentially Kohl et al.'s condition for assuming East Berlin's debt was the liquidation of the GDR government (as opposed to the SED) and Bonn's assuming all powers of government in the New Provinces.
At the time that was quite alright with the Ossis, who had never consented to the division of Germany and wanted their deutschmarks. (That they would still be poorer than the Wessis 25 years later they didn't count on.)
Thing is, Greece is a real country with a real history---and Greeks aren't being offered seats in the Bundestag in return for direct rule from Berlin, much as the thought of Tsipras leading Die Linke makes me smile!
It's sad when socialists get angry at national socialists.
Dear Lord, there are millions of ignorant and bigoted so-and-so's on ZH, including, sadly Mr. Banzai!!!!
None of you have any IDEA what you are talking about. The delaying tactics employed by Germany over 'reparations' (how much do you value a single life, Germany????) are REAL. They have been employing them with millions and millions of claimants ever since 1945 and I should know as my parents, both victims of Nazi agression, were at the receiving end of it.
If you are only expressing your (biased) opinion - SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!! YOu do not know what you are talking about. The Greek govt. do because, if you read the article, if refers to the fact that they hold the Wehrmacht documents, 400,000 of them, and as we all know, Germans are METICULOUS when it come to keeping records.
This is not a bluff. Why on earth do you think the Germans don't answer?
You really are a bunch of clowns who collectively bring down the reputation of ZH.
U. D.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-sponsored-genocide-against-iraq-1990-201...
Extensive use of depleted uranium has converted Iraq into a wasteland for centuries. Will Iraq see a dime in reparations ever?
Toxic legacy of US assault on Fallujah 'worse than Hiroshima'http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/toxic-legacy-of-us-a...
We know that the Iraq invasion was based on lies. How much reparations should Iraq get?
And how about the US' devastation of Indo China?
Well said. In fairness, most Americans I know feel the same way. Don't ever equate the people with their rulers.
@JustObserving,
So what's the problem with the US killing all those innocents (with the help of Tony "warmonger" BLIAR).
They've stopped Iraq selling oil to France, and anybody else in exchange for Euros as well as increasing Heroin production by a magnitude that's sure to decimate lots of other kids and their families.
I think it's called collateral damage.
Uh-oh.
Wait until Alexander The Great's victims show up with a bill.
Gonna be a doozy.
Compounded interest over that kind of time frame will be a real doozy. Also... these reparations would need to be paid in gold and silver... the currency of the time.
I'm also Greek but this is beyond ridiculous. Just to make a point, tell me, at how many years should these war debts be written off? Shall we go back to the fall of Constantinople in 1453 and ask Turkey as the successor of the Ottoman Empire for all the destruction they wrought on the Byzantine Empire and the part that eventually became Greece? Should we also add interest to the amount owed? There is not enough money in the world to pay for that. If not, then why? Why 75 years is not too far back in time to write off, but 562 years is?
And what would happen in the impossible case that Germany concedes to pay Greece? How many more claims of war "debts" would become validated by such a precedent. There is not enough money in the derivative books of all banks in the world to pay for that. Or do you mean that it should be printed so that it can be paid?
You should be able to see that this is another stupid trick by our already humiliated new government to pretend that it has some bargaining power. They will forget about it as soon as they realise there is no chance in hell of getting this done. Just as they have already forgotten a good part of what they said they would do. They'll think of something else, such as suing Deutsche Telekom, Hochtief, Siemens, Thyssen-Krupp or any German company that has been involved in large business projects here. That will fail too. Then they will think of something else, and the show will go on until it won't be able to anymore.
Once a reed snaps, it can't go back to its original shape.
It could try, but it will look ridiculous.
Moral of the story - Syriza promised, Syriza held its ground, Syriza reneged, Syriza bent over, bar some extremity, Syriza is finished.
I agree. In Belgium we've had the extremely unpleasant visit of our German neighbours twice in the same century and our current financial situation isn't exactly peachy, to say the least. But I do not expect kabuki theatre from my own government in the form of claims for war damages in order to make a fast buck (or euro) because the situation is dire. I sympathize with the Greek predicament, but this is not the way to go.
I'm also Greek but this is beyond ridiculous. Just to make a point, tell me, at how many years should these war debts be written off? Shall we go back to the fall of Constantinople in 1453 and ask Turkey as the successor of the Ottoman Empire for all the destruction they wrought on the Byzantine Empire and the part that eventually became Greece? Should we also add interest to the amount owed? There is not enough money in the world to pay for that. If not, then why? Why 75 years is not too far back in time to write off, but 562 years is?
Good questions. If you ask a Zionist what period of time is legitimate with regards to Jewish losses, they will tell you that ~1500 years is a perfectly acceptable space of time to expect reparations (in the form of getting back 'their' land). If you ask them what period of time an Arab is entitled to get some reparation, the answer would be 'never'.
If someone stole your house yesterday, most people would say you're entitled to get it back. If someone stole your great-great-great-great-great-grandfather's house, most people would think your claim is pretty tenuous.
So, you're posing the question. What's your answer? 10 years? 20? 30? Within living memory (~90 years)?
If we enforce copyright on IP for 75 years AFTER the death of an author, why are other claims less stringent?
First of all, is there any article left on ZH where you guys manage to not bring up zionists or jews?
Secondly, if I understand you correctly and assuming you're a US citizen, we'll soon be welcoming you back here in Europe, because you're about to give back your own house to its rightful owners, right?
First of all, is there any article left on ZH where you guys manage to not bring up zionists or jews?
It's relevant because it's clear the answer to the question 'What's the time limit on claiming reparations for property ownership violations?' depends on who's doing the asking.
Secondly, if I understand you correctly and assuming you're a US citizen, we'll soon be welcoming you back here in Europe, because you're about to give back your own house to its rightful owners, right?
My house is around 50 years old. I bought it at full market price from the guy who built it; and no one is contesting the title on the underlying land, either.
Your 'whataboutery' suggests that you - or a group you strongly identify with - can't say the same.
With "house" I was referring to the land that was originally inhabited by native Americans aka indian tribes, i.e. not specifically your very own house.
And no, I do not specifically identify with the jews, but this constant targetting of one group, with all the infamous name calling it apparently has to involve, reminds me of much darker times here in Europe. I was hoping that we had learned by now how dangerous it is to stigmatise indiscriminately an entire group, race or culture.
Turns out I was wrong. But I'll keep fighting against that inhuman approach.
As I said, no one is contesting the ownership of the land my house is situated on.
As for the native Americans, unlike the Zionists I don't believe they're claiming ownership of land their (putative) ancestors lost hundreds of years ago.
And I see you're conflating criticism of Zionists with anti-Semitism. Well done.
Germany and Austria suing France for cardinals Richelieu interventionnism during Thirty Years War.
Poland , Austria and Hungary suing Turks for the Vienna affair.
Italy suing France for Gallic invasions.
Poland suing Ukraine for Khmelnytsky (Chmielnicki) or vice-versa, the jury's still out on this one.
Poland suing Sweden for 1648 invasion.
The whole continent plus Japan suing Mongolia and Tannu-Tuva.
And so on.
Oh, and Jews suing everyone else, as soon as it is determined who is really Jewish.
And let's not forget when the Greeks were kicked out of Turkey. I demand reperations now for forcing my ancestors to leave their home in northwest Turkey. Yes, pretty much all bullshit. Note to potential dictators and other war mongerers... Study what the Romans did to the Carthaginians, what the Spaniards did to the Aztecs... You don't hear the losing side there asking for reperations today, do you?
No stories of bad treatment by the Nazi's in your family then.
Were they Nazi collaborators?
Oh yes, the usual false accusations by those who don't seem to be able to handle reality. But If I would run my life around what happened to my grandfather 75 years ago, I probably wouldn't have a job too, you know? I must admit, however, that the convenience of blaming the Nazis for my current situation is tempting. I could feel so proud about my country and myself. Thankfull, I decided early enough in this crisis that I can't blame anyone else but myself about the situation I am in, and that if I can forgive myself about MY mistakes, I can move on and make the best out of what I have at my disposal. And no, I don't think there is any other way.
Why you are taking personal responsibility for corrupt elites in Greece is beyond me.
Some realized that loading up Germany with unsustainable debt after WWI was a mistake.
It was, it lead to the Nazis, WW2 and the holocaust.
Unsustainable debt is the same now as it's always been, it took the Nazi's to default in 1933 and it may take Golden Dawn to do it for Greece.
The TL;DR version: because he's a fucking idiot.
Because I voted for them, as did most of our co-patriots. And I have regreted it, and have forgiven myself, as our religion teaches.
We were never invaded in WW2, but my Mum had plenty of stories about the Blitz in the East End of London.
As a generalization I don't like the Germans, especially when they start behaving like Nazis again.
But individual German's I meet I would treat like anyone else.
Unless they put their towel on my sunbed!
Are you this fucking stupid?
Tsipras is throwing Berlin's morality play back in their face.
Unfortunately it's nothing but boisterous bluster, Syriza has neither the balls or the will to carry out anything.
Interesting post. What do you have to propose since SYRIZA is not good enough?
Dear U.D.,
I don't know enough to comment on the substance of the case but clearly the Germans have no intention of paying reparations. They consider that's all settled, all forgotten, all forgiven. Only earlier today a divorce case in the UK was judged and the husband has to pay up some 20+ years after the actual divorce. Elapsed time is NOT a consideration in reparation judgements. The Greeks can certainly contest this. Their timing diminishes their claim though, at least in the eyes of the cynics. Right now this is (part of) a fight over the public opinion.
A.
Dear U.D.,
I don't know enough to comment on the substance of the case but clearly the Germans have no intention of paying reparations. They consider that's all settled, all forgotten, all forgiven. Only earlier today a divorce case in the UK was judged and the husband has to pay up some 20+ years after the actual divorce. Elapsed time is NOT a consideration in reparation judgements. The Greeks can certainly contest this. Their timing diminishes their claim though, at least in the eyes of the cynics. Right now this is (part of) a fight over the public opinion.
A.
They are so broke..they cant even pay attention...
What the fuck is TSIPRAS waiting for? Seizure of assets now!!!!
Snodgrass exemplies EVERYTHING that I have stated. Here is a Jew-hating shill venting his mock-indignant spleen. TRULY PATHETIC. Stick your head up your arse, MK CREEP. You absolutely disgust me.
U>D>