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Are Alarm Bells Ringing Over Greece's Pivot To Russia?

Tyler Durden's picture




 

With German media asking "who is more dangerous for us? Greece or Russia," recent actions by both 'antagonists' in that question suggest they may become one and the same sooner than many expected. With tensions rising between Greece and the Eurogroup, recent and future visits to Russia have gained in importance since Russian FinMin confirmed that Moscow "could consider financial help to Greece." While this Russian pivot meme was the stuff of conspiracy theorists just weeks ago, The BBC is now asking directly, "could Europe lose Greece to Russia?" and with more Greeks positive on Russia (61%) than Europe (23%), it should not shock anyone.

 

Deepening ties between Greece's new government and Russia have set off alarm bells across Europe, as the leaders in Athens wrangle with international creditors over reforms needed to avoid bankruptcy. While Greece may be eyeing Moscow as a bargaining chip, some fear it is inexorably moving away from the West, towards a more benevolent ally, a potential investor and a creditor. As The BBC asks, Europe is not pleased. Should it also be worried?

A drove of Greek cabinet members will be heading to Moscow.

 

Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras will be hosted by Russian President Vladimir Putin in May, accompanied by coalition partner Panos Kammenos, defence minister and leader of the populist right-wing Independent Greeks party.

 

The timing has not escaped analysts.

 

Greece's bailout extension expires at the end of June and the worst kept secret in Brussels is that Athens will need new loans to stay afloat.

 

Officially, Greece is not searching for alternative sources of funding.

 

But a loan from Russia, or perhaps China, could seem a more favourable alternative - or at least supplement - to any new eurozone bailout with all its unpopular measures and reforms attached.

 

Greece could look forward to cheaper gas for struggling households, increased Russian investment and tourism to provide a much needed economic boost.

 

Moscow, in return, would be rewarded with a friendly ally with veto power inside the EU at a time of heightened tensions over the Ukraine crisis.

 

...

 

"My feeling is that the Greek government is playing the 'Russian card' in order to improve its bargaining position in the current negotiations," says Manos Karagiannis, a Greece-born specialist on Russian foreign policy at King's College, London.

 

"But it will be very difficult for Athens to distance itself from the EU and Nato."

 

...

 

For Prof Karagiannis, what matters is that Greece is fully integrated into the West, but he warns against underestimating the risks of a Greek exit from the euro.

 

"A Grexit could certainly fuel anti-EU sentiments among the Greek population. And an isolated and weak Greece could jeopardise the stability of the entire region," he says.

 

A weakened country, cast out of the eurozone and possibly the EU, would then be far more open to closer ties with Russia.

*  *  *

Isolated indeed...

 

h/t @KeepTalkingGreece

 

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Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:27 | 5881111 dsty
dsty's picture

Excellent short video from Retired rear admiral that might help us understand the gravity of this situation.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aiB3Zuw9i0eo&refe...

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:37 | 5881153 Save_America1st
Save_America1st's picture

link didn't point to a video, but I'm interested in seeing it if you can post another link

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:41 | 5881178 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Once again I invite ZHers to LOOK AT A MAP, in this case of the Aegean.  Oh look, there's Turkey, and the Black Sea.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:44 | 5881195 knukles
knukles's picture

I'm gonna start a business selling tin foil hats to Conspiracy Theorists.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:17 | 5881314 ohcanada
ohcanada's picture

Great Idea yes, you shoud do that instead of posting here

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:41 | 5881421 strannick
strannick's picture

They do have the similarity of the Orthodox Church...

No doubt they will continue instead as German debt slaves. Oh well... 

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 11:28 | 5881591 Newsboy
Newsboy's picture

Russia won't be bringing any fiscal Trojan Horse inside the gates any time soon.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 12:19 | 5881849 Freddie
Freddie's picture

No alarm bells in the USSA about illegal invaders and Latin drug cartels.  No alarm bells in Europe about islamic invaders, young girls raped in Northern England or anything else.  No alarm bells about war starting, debt rapist banksters.

We need to fear and worry about Orthodox Christians from Russia.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 14:41 | 5882446 froze25
froze25's picture

I always knew it was the Orthodox Christians trying to undo the fabric of Society and they were the True enemy of Liberty and Freedom!

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:42 | 5881436 BuddyEffed
BuddyEffed's picture

Leave Knucks alone, you canuck you.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:50 | 5881461 mendolover
mendolover's picture

My grandfather, GRANDFATHER used to say if you're not a conspiracy theorist, you're a coincidence theorist.  Man I miss that guy.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:58 | 5881494 ThirteenthFloor
ThirteenthFloor's picture

Thanks for sharing.
In 2015 world
Obvious = Conspiracy

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 11:03 | 5881508 strannick
strannick's picture

Coincidence Theorist, wow

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 11:23 | 5881540 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

You should learn to spell "should" and then go fuck yourself since you're off your period.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:21 | 5881327 edotabin
edotabin's picture

Alcoa will probably shut you down :-)

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 11:21 | 5881561 cornfritter
cornfritter's picture

flame retardant, lead lined coveralls w/ matching helmet (color coordinated of course) pant suits are going out of style i fear

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:07 | 5881278 ThirteenthFloor
ThirteenthFloor's picture

Many on ZH pointed Greece would go BRICS it's quite obvious . They also share the same alphabet, and staying in the EU is slow torture.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:27 | 5881348 edotabin
edotabin's picture

"They also share the same alphabet"

oh man.......

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:41 | 5881435 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

yeah...the 'different' alphabet...

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 13:43 | 5882159 edotabin
edotabin's picture

I was being cynical. They are very different actually. To call them the same is quite ignorant.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:55 | 5881476 zvzzt
zvzzt's picture

???????

???????? (Russian)

 

Alphabet not the same (sorry, cannot paste Greek or Slavic script in edit...)

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 11:00 | 5881500 Mabussur
Mabussur's picture

Surely this is a joke.
Do all languages that do not use a variation of the roman alphabet share the same alphabet called "shit i can't read" ?
Your past and present opinions are nullified by displaying such an amount of ignorance.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 11:22 | 5881571 karutzar
karutzar's picture

They don't. Russian use bulgarian alphabet called Cyrillic (in fact russians did speak bulgarian before Ekaterina gave order to be "invented" russian language - few hundred words only, created from some obviously dumb government clerks), greeks have own (stolen from thracians - ancient people on Balkans, still living in both Bulgaria and Greece) alphabet. The common is orthodox christianity. Over 40% from world population read and write on Cyrillic alphabet.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:45 | 5881441 mendolover
mendolover's picture

They do have that Eastern Orthodox thing in common too.  Unlike the rest of the EU athiests.  Or rather the state is god believers.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:36 | 5881413 mendolover
mendolover's picture

There is no video. Being a government troll dtsy knows that typical readers have a short attention span and the term 'short video' attracts clicks.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:39 | 5881167 SethDealer
SethDealer's picture

the lazy greeks join with the drunk russians to form a deadbeat alliance

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:40 | 5881173 Self-enslavement
Self-enslavement's picture

Troll.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 20:55 | 5883757 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Funniest comment, though.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:56 | 5881224 MilwaukeeMark
MilwaukeeMark's picture

More accuraterly ...  the Greeks are tired of taking it in the ass (I know, I know, they're supposedly famous for it) and are looking for someone who will give them some lovin' and not just use them as a whore.

 

 

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:27 | 5881357 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

A phenonmenon which can be traced to a combination of a modest tourism-dependent GDP coupled with massive social entitlements and pension age of 52. Now throw in a corrupt government. What could go wrong there? Then keep electing the same corruptocrats to kick the can of reality down the road for decade after decade. The Greeks (and all of the West for that matter) can blame ourselves for our lot in life.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:39 | 5881168 Self-enslavement
Self-enslavement's picture

Propagandistic author of this article says that Greece is not capable of being a trade partner. He wants you to believe that Greece is a slave state.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 11:46 | 5881679 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

bored

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 12:07 | 5881774 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Rear admiral's book - Lenin, Stalin and Hitler.  What do they have in common?  All backed by banksters.  All wars are bankster wars.

Lenin and Stalin were not Russians and the people behind them were backed by banksters to kill Christian Russians.   These dual citizen types run the EU-SSR and USSA now.  Same gang.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:28 | 5881115 youngman
youngman's picture

If the Greeks think living under Nazi rule was so bad...wait until they live under Russian rule....those boys really know how to steal....and corruption...you have not seen anything yet...lol

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:32 | 5881132 kowalli
kowalli's picture

You sure know it's from same BBC? Do you even once go to Russia?)

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:47 | 5881203 knukles
knukles's picture

Yes and Yes, BBC and Russia.
Russia is a shit hole.
Personal Experience
Where the fuck have all these pro Russia and Islam Trolls come from?
Either Trolls or people not knowing of what they speak.  And no, I do not believe that all you "folks" ever been to Russia.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:58 | 5881248 rejected
rejected's picture

Well, one doesn't have to 'know' the contestants to figure out which is the bully. no?

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:04 | 5881266 kowalli
kowalli's picture

detroit is paradise, i get it.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:18 | 5881318 Panem et Circus
Panem et Circus's picture

No, Detroit is just the 57th state of a newly formed caliphate.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:28 | 5881365 the phantom
the phantom's picture

I've been to Russia... the city of St. Petersburg is stunning, particularly during "White Nights".  Actually proposed to my wife there.  Ah, memories.  Moscow is another city I would rate very highly.  For such a big city, it is way cleaner than say... London/Athens/NYC.  The renaissance of Christianity is also very evident... you can't go too far without seeing a church.  Religion was verboten during Communist times, but faith is making a comeback in Russia.  Guess that's another reason the liberals/zionists/child molesters that is the US/EU elite hate Russia so much.

Riding the train from Moscow to St. Pete's, you notice the ugly communist remnant buildings where everything looks the same.  Not pretty at all, reminds me of the projects I see here in the US... so not much difference there.  Detroit... now there's a shithole.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:26 | 5881353 JailBank
JailBank's picture

No russian troll here, I just really don't want to have to fight a war in Russia is all. 

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:32 | 5881388 Grouchy-Bear
Grouchy-Bear's picture

I have been and in fact I am there as I write this! 9 years living here and you are wrong...

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:32 | 5881389 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

This is RT-lite over here. Russian sympathizers run ZH now. I don't even read the geopolitical articles unless they are world econ related, it is mostly anti-west propaganda.

 

Just watch me get junked for this comment starting... now

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:49 | 5881457 BuddyEffed
BuddyEffed's picture

Is that possibly you Junk man, commenting here for jollies?  Here at ZH, less spin and more truth and good faith do get noticed with positive feedback, and the opposite get's the deserved aversion therapy, no matter who/what/where is the topic.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:55 | 5881483 ross81
ross81's picture

Not really. If Russia was holding military exercises in Mexico and sending troops to Canada, I think everyone here would be outraged.

 

The likes of you have real difficulty seeing things from different perspectives. The West can invade any country and topple any govenment it likes, cos it's the West, right?

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 11:25 | 5881581 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Its diagnosed as sociopathy, and their jingoism is just mass sociopathy.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:35 | 5881394 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:39 | 5881425 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Where the fuck have all these pro Russia [snip] Trolls come from?

Enemy of my enemy.  Bad philosophy, but any port in a storm, you know?

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:37 | 5881141 Jano
Jano's picture

If you mention corruption: in USA a dual citizens buy every election, be it Senate, The House or President.

Why don't you care about Oligarchs brothers Kochs and Adelson, buying your legislative, your jurisdical and your executive branch?

Why are you concerned about Russia?

Why don't you write about the top of the corruption, your country is so corrupt, that foreigners, dual citizens, are able to get every one of your decision makers into their pocket. This is something, what is not possible in Russia.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:05 | 5881271 Nussi34
Nussi34's picture

Must be the jews

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 11:23 | 5881574 Consuelo
Consuelo's picture

Quite actually (and unfortunately) in large degree, it IS...

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:29 | 5881359 Moribundus
Moribundus's picture

Buks: Grand Theft Pentagon :Tales of Corruption and Profiteering in the War on Terror

Or: The best system money can buy: Corruption in EU. 

Or: The best enemy money can buy. 

Without doubts, USA is most corrupted entity of the world by amount per capita and lack of opossition check balance. Elsewere would be called corruption, but in US it is called lobyism to avoid to be on the list with targeted countries. World has oligarchs while US has tycoons for the same reason= use of world oligarch should have negative meaning, while tycoons are great hard working people. 

 

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 12:18 | 5881840 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

You forgot Soros (not even an American but a documented Nazi at least) and others who probably each have more "influence" than the people you mentioned.  But then I suppose you only mentioned the ones you did because you are a blue and they are red. 

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 12:45 | 5881969 Jano
Jano's picture

I have put here the ones, who have a dual citizenship (one of them is American) and who live on the US soil.

Go to www.veteranstoday.com, read the stuff, or listen on youtube ( you r mature enough not to belive everything, what they say) and you get it on the table, outspoken, what happens, the names ....

I do not belive, that Americans are interested, what Soros Nazi does, or does not. He will be punished for his nazi crimes anyhow.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:35 | 5881147 iofera
iofera's picture

I've been to Russia numerous times - we always pay bribes. It's the Russn way.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:38 | 5881159 Jano
Jano's picture

don't go there. go to us (if you get in first of all)

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:02 | 5881260 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

Should they do it like we do in the USA, where bribes (contributions) can only be given to our congressmen and cabinet secretaries?

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:40 | 5881175 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Siding with the EU is being enslaved, robbed, and dragged into endless wars.  Russia is the better deal by far, despite the the misconceptions about their character. 

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:15 | 5881225 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Right. BelaRussia agrees. Or does it not? What about Finland, the Balts, Ukraine, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, etc. etc.?

Plenty of countries that were either part of the desmenes of the Emperor of All Russias or part of the Soviet Union or satellites of it

I see a rush towards the better deal, don't I? Don't be afraid, do expose your thoughts on this in a reply

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:21 | 5881330 Panem et Circus
Panem et Circus's picture

Ghordius, as I recall there also used to be a number of countries to the south of the bear that were former Soviet Union states in times past. They could no longer be reached for comment though...

hint: not Ukraine

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:28 | 5881370 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

of course, the 'Stans. yes, I know them a bit, I traveled a bit there even before the Wall came down, and then later. Splendid people, there. Do we want to talk about their... governments?

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:35 | 5881403 the phantom
the phantom's picture

Most of the countries you mention were part of the Soviet Union's sphere. Lumping todays Russia with the Soviet Union? Not quite an accurate analogy though, is it? 

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:40 | 5881427 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

a fitting response to "Siding with the EU is being enslaved, robbed, and dragged into endless wars.  Russia is the better deal by far"

but let's keep the analogy as pure as possible. BelaRussia. Splendid example, eh? Care to talk about it?

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 12:14 | 5881801 the phantom
the phantom's picture

Why Belarus? Let's talk Bulgaria.  Since joining the EU in 2007, what has EU membership done for them?  EU warmongering with Russia has cost them building of the south stream pipeline, which would mean thousands of jobs for Bulgarians and millions per year in transit fees.  A think tank, based in Sophia (center for the study of democracy) recently  found "country -wide corruption to be at its highest in 15 years".  Thanks EU!!!

Where do I sign up to join this cluster-f*ck?

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:41 | 5881432 Random
Random's picture

You have to make a distinction between politicians and what people really want. If you ask a politician he'll say that we need to teach the russians a lesson (even if that means war and a losing one) but if you ask the guy on the street he will say that he does not want war (regardless of the "reason" for it). Also do not conflate USSR with Russian Federation.

A bit of local info: 8 years after joining the EU we ended up in a situation that is far worse vs. Russia as in higher taxes, lots of poverty, sky high debt, little development, very restrictive "laws" and little or no say in politics. This was the result of "aligning" ourselves to the EU policies and prices (although the production cost are nowhere near the EU core countries) plus our politicians taking a (large) cut for themselves.

 

Fuck the EU and fuck the state (all of them)! Fuck nato too!

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:55 | 5881484 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I did not vote for your politicians, did I? Who did? Meanwhile, this "do not conflate USSR with Russian Federation" is correct, and yet... what is Moscow doing, and trying to do?

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 11:09 | 5881521 Random
Random's picture

I did not vote for ANY politician (also voting, lol). Care to fault me for doing so and for suffering their wrongdoings? You left out the EU bureaucrats, conveniently. I also did not appoint (or asked) them to do a damn thing. Am I supposed to take it in the ass AND like it?

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 15:41 | 5881687 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

...I see a rush towards the better deal, don't I?

All I see is more bullshit propaganda coming from the new EUSSR (so much better than the old USSR, probably because those in power now are enlightened Maoists pseudo-intellectuals of the '60s, as opposed to unwashed peasants of the '40s). All those countries from the former soviet bloc were attracted EXCLUSIVELY by EU's empty promises of a better (and richer) life. Now, with their former industries laying in ruins and their former social programs gutted to mere symbols, they all start slowly to realize that the joke's on them. Those East European countries look today like the girl who traveled West in search of a better life only to land in a glorified brothel as a second hand whore. Beware though, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned...

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 12:20 | 5881854 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Answer this honestly:  Who, Russia or NATO/US/Europe, has bombed and/or invaded more countries in the last 25 years and what exactly is the ratio?

If you still think Russia is the danger after that you are on your crazy pills again.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:42 | 5881185 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

We're gonna have to disagree. If anything, there has been a flip flop in global values.   So, it can get worse for Greece?  

It would appear that not all of the highly critical information being circulated, is accurate.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 12:22 | 5881862 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

It absolutely can get worse for Greece.  Sure, turning east might seem like the better alternative to financial servitude to the west but they haven't had a color revolution or spring or whatever it will be called.  They are slaves today.  Tomorrow, they could be killing each other and going even further into debt while they are at it.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:14 | 5881307 damicol
damicol's picture

Fuck off...

 

 You want to see corruption , just look at that vomit inducing black skanky faggot Kenyan bath house trawling promiscuous faggot monkey in the Whitehouse, then just look at the cunts sucking its dick.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:51 | 5881464 American Dreams
American Dreams's picture

Had to log in to +1 you.  Anger is a gift.

AD

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 12:11 | 5881798 El Gringo
El Gringo's picture

Living under Nazi rule isn't bad at all unless you are a communist scum bag or some other kind of degenerate.  Hell, I'd not only live under it but zealously participate in it.  Oh, the wonderful sound a Louisville slugger would make slapping the skull of a liberal progressive scum bag.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 12:24 | 5881874 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Apparently you do not realize that our current form of fascism was brought about by liberal progressive scum bags in order to capture people like you in the movement that will eventually bring us to full on marxism.  Hope you enjoy the ride you dumbass.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:29 | 5881118 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Hard pivot bitchez!

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:45 | 5881189 edotabin
edotabin's picture

Hard horse shit.  If they want to go so badly, then they should go. What is this half step stuff?  You either do something or you don't. Veiled threats are getting old and a bit tiresome.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:50 | 5881213 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yeah, thats the way I look at it.

Its the same ole gambit.

Helen (screaming): "Roger, if you won't marry me John will!!!"

Roger: "Whatever, I hope John and you will be happy together. You're clearly meant for each other." ;-)

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:30 | 5881377 JailBank
JailBank's picture

Why leave now? Shoot the ECB is still giving away free money. As long as the money comes in with just a little bitching and moaning why leave?

If I was Greece I would hang out looking for free cash until the last minute. I mean they are giving it away!

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:31 | 5881386 JailBank
JailBank's picture

What are the Euros going to invade Greece? 

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 12:28 | 5881893 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Any money the ECB gives Greece is already earmarked for certain European banks and so will NOT end up in the pockets of the average Greek.  Of course, the people at the top will skim but they aren't starving already anyway.

 

On the plus side, the average Greek will be held to account for paying taxes that then pay interest on the eternal debt so the European banks and political skimmers don't actually have to work for their luxurious lifestyles.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:29 | 5881120 Bokkenrijder
Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:07 | 5881275 Tao 4 the Show
Tao 4 the Show's picture

Intrigue upon intrigue -I am sure we have no clue what is really going on, and if we did, it would require a book a day to describe it all.

Here is another interesting tidbit:

http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150310/1019280009.html#ixzz3U6oiJqfj

Concessions? Do they really want to bargain rather than fight? Did somebody turn over the table where "the great chess game" was supposedly being played?

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:22 | 5881333 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

everybody is thumping their fists on the table where the "Great Game" is played

Brzezinski is talking about a deal. but he is not at the bargaining table. only France and Germany are currently talking with Russia

he is arguing in the article that the US should offer (as it often did) the EU membership to Ukraine (yes, giving something that is not his to give, but he does not care)...

...while... not offering NATO membership. Which is a complete reversal of the US standard practice of offering NATO while holding EU as a sweetener

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:36 | 5881412 Tao 4 the Show
Tao 4 the Show's picture

All very reasonable sounding, but misses the irony, so I will spell it out for you:

Let's say we are competitors in a business sector. I write a book explaining that, if I can win over one portion of the sector, I will be able to completely dominate the business sector we are competing over.

Then, when the situation gets complicated, I offer to win over the critical portion of the business sector, but agree not to use my advantage to drive you to bankruptcy. Thus, I win, you lose. I will be in a position to run you out of business whenever I decide, but won't do it right away.

Of course, I don't expect you to appreciate this irony, but perhaps a few others will enjoy the thought.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:44 | 5881437 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

you just reminded me of some CEOs turned diplomats that think they can use the same "elegant" business ways in the dealings among sovereigns. but of course I don't expect you to appreciate the sarcasm

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:59 | 5881498 Tao 4 the Show
Tao 4 the Show's picture

Yes, and indeed I was being sarcastic. My secondary point was that we are not in "reasonable" times, so I find it distracting to only look at the seemingly reasonable side of things.

A detente would only work if both sides see personal advantage in it. There are two prominent views on Russia these days. One is as a mad invader/land grabber/megalomaniac. The other, which Russia claims, is that they are fighting for their existence against the empire grab by the west.

Take your pick, but in either case, it is hard to see why they would agree to detente unless it strengthens their objectives. The suggestion by B would essentially be Russia agreeing to a loss. I could only imagine them doing it - giving up ground - if they desperately need time to strengthen their position

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:48 | 5881448 edotabin
edotabin's picture

Trying to distinguish between Nato and the EU is an exercise in futility. There would be no EU without Nato.  As the EU began to expand and bolster its position, Nato slipped into the background but is still the glue that holds it all together.

Oh and by the way, the new EU military is a joke. It will take at least 20-30 years to be minimally effective if any of the countries decide to spend the money necessary.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:28 | 5881371 Poundsand
Poundsand's picture

An agreement.  Yeah that's the ticket.  A promise from the US.  Yeah, you can trust US.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 13:42 | 5882173 vikingo
vikingo's picture

Want to know what Putin is doing?

His english webb:

http://eng.kremlin.ru/transcripts

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:30 | 5881122 unplugged
unplugged's picture

did Greece reject the Troika?   so now the thinking is they will reject the whole EU?    hahahahaahahahahahhhahahahaahahaha!!!!!

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 11:16 | 5881485 Stumpy4516
Stumpy4516's picture

Correct, the Greece govt has decidedly turned away from Russia.  The new govt of Greece fooled their citizens about who they really were and to get elected promised the opposite of what they intended. 

The EU/US/Bankers realize Greece will develop closer ties with Russia if booted out of the EU and the EU realizes the people of Greece would like to move towards Russia now.  For that reason the taking of Greece by the EU has been speeded up and the newly elected Greece govt is working quiclkly to so burden Greece (and to turn all public assets into debt collateral) so that the country is just an empty shell.

The new "rebel" govt of Greece are traitors of their people but the people will not react until it's far too late.   All will be in one way or another pledged to or owned by outside forces.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 11:22 | 5881569 Fod
Fod's picture

"and the newly elected Greece govt is working quiclkly to so burden Greece (and to turn all public assets into debt collateral) so that the country is just an empty shell."

Where exactly do you get that? What is the new Greek government doing that will produce this?

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 11:38 | 5881632 'argar the 'orrible
'argar the 'orrible's picture

And you know this is true because.....

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:31 | 5881125 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

just do it..this drama is getting tiresome, russia is a great eye opener for the EU if greece just had the balls

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:32 | 5881134 iofera
iofera's picture

Greece and Russia. Those two go together.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:34 | 5881139 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

Why in the fuck would Russia want to have anything to do with Greece? That is one giant financial black hole. Let the Greeks default. Let the Greeks have their own currency and everyone leave them the fuck alone and quit lending them money. They will be just fine on their own without the Bank parasites.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:40 | 5881174 kowalli
kowalli's picture

Russia want to  stop the war. Greece cost is less than war cost, simple math

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:19 | 5881322 researchfix
researchfix's picture

The Greeks could lease them a big stationary aircraftcarrier in the Aegean.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:44 | 5881193 YuShun
YuShun's picture

Both Russia & Greece are Orthodox.  Most businessmen & military men & diplomats
pay no attention to religion in other countries unless Israel, or Islam, is involved,
but religious ties go way back... many centuries. 

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:23 | 5881340 Panem et Circus
Panem et Circus's picture

Agreed, it's all about Orthodox with these two. Neo-fascism cloaked under religion for the bear.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 12:18 | 5881841 Anunnaki
Anunnaki's picture

These are the Neo Fascists

1. Pol Pot Shenko and the rest of the oligarchic Ukranian junta

2. Zio Hag Vicky Nuland

3. The Obama Regime: Superfly, Horseface, the 3 Harpies: Power, Rice, Psaki

4. ZATO and Donald Tusk

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:46 | 5881200 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

For one, Greece is a NATO member.  You don´t need to imagine too much how the headlines would look like over at RT and Sputnik if Putin was able to chop a member off from the NATO alliance...and have a SECOND naval base in the Mediterrainian Sea (the other is being constructed over at the unofficial russian colony of Cyprus).

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 12:36 | 5881928 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

I like your thinking there but would take it further.  If Russia can get Greece and Cyprus, where does that leave Turkey?  This could be about much more than Greece. 

Heck, throw in Donbass and Crimea and Russia starts to look like a real power in the eastern Med.  Egypt might swing too. 

Why not consider Iran winning in Iraq and Syria too.  So now... who would that leave fairly isolated?

Israel.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:54 | 5881227 sandman.s
sandman.s's picture

Maybe cause what the article said.  They are looking for a friend with veto rights on the EU.  Doesn't seem that stupid when you actually stop and think about it does it?

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 12:15 | 5881828 Anunnaki
Anunnaki's picture

Orthodoxy is one reason. The Greek terminus on Turkstream another. Common decency for a coutrny raped by oligarchs who have empathy for what the Greeks have to deal with. Greek no vote on sanction renewal. Mediterranean naval leases potential

Quid pro quo.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:34 | 5881143 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

I´ll say it again...watch for a move by the Greek miilitary in the near future.  If the current crew proves incompetant and reckless, they will be ripe pickings for an easy takeover.   It CAN  happen.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:38 | 5881161 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Will that mean the whole Greeks and Turks fighting over Cyprus again.  I don't know if I can take much more drama.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 12:13 | 5881812 Anunnaki
Anunnaki's picture

The coup starts as soon as Tsirpas and Whathefakis's plane leaves Greece airpace en route to Moscow

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:36 | 5881149 lindaamick
lindaamick's picture

A multipolar world will reintroduce choice into global economics.  That is a win for everybody excluding western oligarchs.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:38 | 5881162 Fun Facts
Fun Facts's picture

Our zionist gangbangkster overlords and the ZWO will start WWIII before they allow their subject countries to pivot to Russia.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:42 | 5881187 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

They will start WW3 anyway.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 12:12 | 5881804 Usurious
Usurious's picture

it appears to have already started

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:39 | 5881170 Nussi34
Nussi34's picture

Fuck the Greeks. Who cares what they do

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:45 | 5881182 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

KeepTalkingGreece goes for the popular "jugular", GreXit. But what if Greece is more useful to Russia in the EU instead out of it?

Just as an example, the new EuroCrats, PM Tsipras and FM Varoufakis of Greece, could participate to the EU Council vote on the renewal of the EU sanctions versus Russia

there are parallels: just recently, Washington told very clearly another EuroCrat, PM Cameron of the UK, that it prefers to have the UK in the EU, not out

(of course, there is the aspect of direct responsibility, but this is a different story)

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:47 | 5881202 Billy Sol Estes
Billy Sol Estes's picture

Like a proxy?

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:01 | 5881230 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Are you calling the United Kingdom a Proxy of the US? In the blue-gold bosom of the EU? I find this... undiplomatic. I don't think I would ever put this in such terms

we are all allies of the US. in a common defense agreement. having said that, lots of countries have to follow up on national interests. some of those interests have a given name, like "Hunter", and some of those who follow up on those interest have a given name too, like "Victoria"

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 11:31 | 5881604 'argar the 'orrible
'argar the 'orrible's picture

Oh Ghordius!. lets be honest now, the uk is like an puppy dog running at the heels of the us, panting for handouts,  idolising its master, the us, and sqealing with delight when its rewarded. The toadying to obama by cameron is sickening in the extreme and an embarassment to us all.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:48 | 5881449 rayo_xis
rayo_xis's picture

It is not the same as UK. Greece may leave the euro zone without leaving the EU

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:46 | 5881201 king leon
king leon's picture

I think that Putin cut a deal with Merkel and Hollande promising to lay off Greece in exchange for a peace settlement in Ukraine but because the EU can't control their loose cannon "THE US of A", it now looks like putin will thrust the dagger into the throat of the EU and TWIST it.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 11:44 | 5881556 'argar the 'orrible
'argar the 'orrible's picture

 A bit graphic Leon, but wouldn't you, after screwing Russia with sanctions and then further sanctions (twisting the knife) the eu has it coming to it. And the spectre of unintended consequences re. the decline of their agriculture and othergoods industries. the term 'shooting themsalves in the foot' comes to mind.

Plus we have the ukraine, kiev that is, stealing gas from Russia, I would have shut the gas off to the whole eu, but then again I'm not so forgiving as Mr Putin.

By the way, I am not Russian, but I did visit Leningrad in the 1980's, as it was then, and before we left we were told we would be so restricted in our movements, which turned out to be absolute bull dust. I could write a book about it, suffice to say, if ever you get the chance go to the Winter Palace, you will not be dissapointed.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 09:52 | 5881218 luckylongshot
luckylongshot's picture

What the EU is slowly waking up to is that they have become a vassal state of the criminal Rothschild banking cartel. The banksters have raped Greece using debt they have created out of thin air and are on track to rape every country in the EU if they are not stopped. Greece turning to Russia and defaulting on its debts in this context would be good for the EU public as it would create a precedent for all the (indebted) countries in the EU to default on their loan payments and likely result in a breakup of the union. Getting rid of the Rothschild parasites may not be such a bad thing, in Russia the average standard of living doubled in the year following Putin removing the Rothschilds from Russia.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:05 | 5881273 Dickweed Wang
Dickweed Wang's picture

The truth of your post is self-evident.  Obviously two Rothschild trolls did not like you stating the obvious - thus the two down arrows . . . . .

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:18 | 5881295 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

This is a win-win for Turkey and Greece vis-a-vis Russia's... long gone days of Stalinism!?!

The region is excited with the future, aligning with the Chinese/ Russian Axis Trade.

This is where all the action is for the next several century's... so, tyme to get on the 'Silk-Road-Express'! Whoa! Eurasia here we go...

ref. the past, and go forward young man, for the future in the East has swiftly eclipsed the West setting Sun!?!    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallipoli_Campaign

http://anzac.com/battle_of_gallipoli.html

jmo 

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:12 | 5881296 geno-econ
geno-econ's picture

There is no future for Greece if it pivots towards Russia. There is no future for Greece if it remains under EU debt slavery.

The only future for Greece is to default and start all over again.  For EU only course is to accept error in extending sub prime loans to a bankrupt member states.  The only course for Ukraine is to declare bankruptcy, hold regional elections under a federal system of governance but allowing regional societies to maintain their own language, religion and culture. The only future for US is to accept the fact our fiat monetary system is also bankrupt and requires a painful reset recognizing that the financial system has become currupt, overleveraged and needs major fixing before it sparks massive economic destruction on a world wide scale.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:49 | 5881460 'argar the 'orrible
'argar the 'orrible's picture

What did you say, the eu to accept ERROR, mein gott, you are deluded, please understand this an observasion not a critisism, the eu beaurocrats will NEVER EVER accept they are in error, it is not even in their vocabulary. They are out for themselves only, an unravelling of the eu would mean an end to their gravytrain, and also their big fat pensions. Always follow the money, thats what its all about.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:13 | 5881300 Moribundus
Moribundus's picture

Unfortunately no more people had read The Treaty of Rome in the 1960s than had read Mein Kampf in the 1930s. Politicians and opinion formers, who should have known better, accepted assurances that no loss of sovereignty was involved in acceding to the EEC.

http://www.the-highway.com/eu_Bennett.html

The Geopolitics of World War III: https://youtu.be/TC3tINgWfQE

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:22 | 5881332 damicol
damicol's picture

unless anyone actually failed to notice, it is the fucking raddled corrypt superstate of the EISSR that is finished.

Fucking Soviet bureaucracy could have taught these lemon squeezers in Brussels how its done.

Greece is bankrupt, and its leaving no matter what they do uness the fucking retards in the EI pay up , and up and up and pay up for as long as Greece demands they pay.

Otherwise they fuck off, simple as that, and I have yet to talk to a Greek who has the slightest intention of paying any taxes whatsoever. Ever

They want to stay in the eiro,,  for one simple reason, to make Germany pay.

 

 

 

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:32 | 5881392 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I understand the reasons for trolling, but "EISSR", "EI", and "eiro"?

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:34 | 5881398 edotabin
edotabin's picture

Hey, Mr. Panos was screaming this for a long time.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:29 | 5881375 MS7
MS7's picture

Tsipras is the last person to help Greece pivot to Russia. He and Varoufakis are euro worshippers. The EU can fall apart but Greece will still be clinging to the euro. Just watch-- they will be the last to part with it. I don't fault the ordinary Greeks for this. It is the result of relentless pro-euro propaganda. Syriza will say that the people don't want to leave the euro, but they are the ones who helped convince the people that leaving would be a disaster. Varoufakis recently said that Greece would go back to neolithic times if it left. That's the type of propaganda those "radical leftists" spread.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:35 | 5881405 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Varoufakis (and Tsipras) euro worshippers? I'd hate to meet an euro hater, then. But thankfully there is no anti-euro propaganda, eh? ;-)

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 11:19 | 5881552 Escapedgoat
Escapedgoat's picture

Not in Greece, they have strangulated any free voice.

There are 10-12 Old Crony, Oligarchic Families that control most things.

We have noted the route that Varoufakis has taken , and yes he was PART OF THE PAPANDREOU CLAN.

Also his Father in Law is part of the Cabal in Greece.

You Ghordius show us the ANTI-EURO  propaganda in Greece, if you can find it.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 11:22 | 5881570 back to basics
back to basics's picture

Yes, they both are, if not worshipers, then as a minimum to totally committed to a failed concept called the euro.

Do you have any evidence that they are not is that a European secret you can't talk about?

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 18:11 | 5883286 nicxios
nicxios's picture

It's true, they don't more pro-Euro than Varoufakis and Tsipras.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:37 | 5881419 'argar the 'orrible
'argar the 'orrible's picture

Russia is routing its new southern pipeline to and through Turkey, and whats this country just across the way, why blow me down, its Greece. The Rouble/Drachma are already being counted. Problem solved.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 13:36 | 5882155 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Remember what Putin or Gazprom's Miller or Medevev (sp?) said recently.  They said that the pipeline will go to Turkey next to the Greece Turkey border and it was up to Europe to connect from there.

I would not be suprised if Russia and Greece are talking in the background. 

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:37 | 5881417 Z_End
Z_End's picture

Splendid Isolation...

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 10:44 | 5881439 Niall Of The Ni...
Niall Of The Nine Hostages's picture

Putin already has a friend in the EU, Hungary. That hasn't stopped Germany from making trouble in Ukraine. 

Nobody in Brussels actually cares what people think in Budapest or Athens. The Germans control the money, so they make the rules. Nothing will satisfy them long-term but the EU banner flying over the remains of Moscow and St. Petersburg and those uppity Russians lucky enough to survive their splendid little war in the east stuffed into cattle cars headed for Siberian reservations to wait for extinction while German banksters walk off with enough oil, gas and metals to pay for their vanities for decades to come. (The proles will still have to pay cash, of course.)

There will be a place for a liberated Greece in the free and prosperous Eurasian Union to come. For now, if Berlin really has to re-sit the lesson it failed catastrophically in 1945, so be it. Let's get it over with and stop waiting for Syriza to save the banksters from themselves. 

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 11:08 | 5881520 Izznogood
Izznogood's picture

I say: "If they want each other, let them have each other"

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 11:17 | 5881543 teslaberry
teslaberry's picture

the chinese have way more money . 

 

why russia?

 

becuase this entire charade is a setup conspiracy to give germany a european wide army, kick out the americans, and then reclaim the 3rd reich. 

 

they need an enemy to do this. greece will be the proxy war , russia the enemy, and the golden dawn will be the nazi funded party to clean up greece. from there, golden dawn spreads to the franco royalists in spain, the bunga bunga clique in italy+ vatican, and of course the french socialists will take over the role of vichy nazis in france because french nationlists are a threat to german far right . a weak and compliant france is useful for junker germany.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 11:31 | 5881603 Trick Shroadé
Trick Shroadé's picture

LOL when Russia is your best choice you know you've hit bottom. Greece and Russia... they deserve each other.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 11:42 | 5881644 Joe A
Joe A's picture

There goes the Greek coastline. I love going to Greece on holiday but if it becomes a holiday destination for the masses from Russia then I need to reconsider.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 12:09 | 5881786 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

The russians vacation on the 'Bosphorus'...

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 12:09 | 5881789 Anunnaki
Anunnaki's picture

1. Default

2. Fly to Moscow

3. BRICS Bank first loan. Helping the New Drachma tied to gold

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 12:17 | 5881838 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

You've got to be kidding.

Greece's utility to Russia is its ability to poke Europe in the eye.

Russia's utility to Greece is its ability to poke Europe in the eye.

In the meantime the Greeks whole economy, such as it is, is based on Europe.

The Greek government is putting a gun to Greece's head and challenging Europe, "Give us a share of your wealth in return for nothing or the Greek gets it!"

You can't make this stuff up.

Meanwhile in the real world, demographics predict the Moors rising again.  It is only a matter of time until Turkey turns toward its roots. 

Probably futile in any case, but Greece may want friends closer to home than Russia.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 12:26 | 5881889 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Fortunately for the Q99X2 we don't have such problems but if we did have a land mass on the earth populated with earthlings it'd be a slam dunk Russian deal instead of the NWO which is run by pedophiles, crooks and drug dealers, banksters and F'n Lloyd Blankfein bitchez.

Thu, 03/12/2015 - 12:53 | 5881999 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

Let Greece suck on the Russian tit, then watch what happens when they try to leave the diner without paying the check.

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