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Germans Furious After Varoufakis/Tsipras Admit "Greece Will Never Repay Its Debts"
The Greco-Germanic war of words continues... Having pissed off The Greeks with his "Troika" remarks, Germany's Schaeuble went on today to more ad hominum attacks by reportedly calling the Greek FinMin "foolishly naive." The Greek ambassador has 'officially' complained to "friend and ally" Germany about the personal insult. But The Greeks had the last laugh, as first Varoufakis and then Tsipras explained respectively that "Greece would never pay back its debts," and "Greece cannot pretend its debt burden is sustainable." The German response, via tabloid Bild, "there must be an end to this madness. Europe must not be made to look stupid."
As Bloomberg reports, Germany and Greece confirmed Thursday that the Greek ambassador in Berlin made an official protest late Tuesday to the German Foreign Ministry over comments made by Schaeuble.
Schaeuble and his Greek counterpart Yanis Varoufakis have traded barbs in recent weeks, with Schaeuble on Tuesday suggesting that Varoufakis needed to look more closely at an agreement that Greece signed in February: “He just has to read it. I’m willing to lend him my copy if need be.”
“It was a complaint after what he (Schaeuble) said about Mr. Varoufakis. As a minister of a country that is our friend and our ally, he cannot personally insult a colleague.”
Koutras did not specify what the insult was, but Greek media had reported that Schaeuble had said that Varoufakis was “foolishly naive.”
Schaeuble said Thursday that any suggestion he insulted Varoufakis at the meeting is “absurd.”
* * *
And then, as Reuters reports, Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis has described his country as the most bankrupt in the world and said European leaders knew all along that Athens would never repay its debts, in blunt comments that sparked a backlash in the German media on Tuesday.
A documentary about the Greek debt crisis on German public broadcaster ARD was aired on the same day euro zone finance ministers met in Brussels to discuss whether to provide Athens with further funding in exchange for delivering reforms.
"Clever people in Brussels, in Frankfurt and in Berlin knew back in May 2010 that Greece would never pay back its debts. But they acted as if Greece wasn't bankrupt, as if it just didn't have enough liquid funds," Varoufakis told the documentary.
"In this position, to give the most bankrupt of any state the biggest credit in history, like third class corrupt bankers, was a crime against humanity," said Varoufakis, according to a German translation of his comments.
Followed today by comments from Syriza leader Tsipras...
- *TSIPRAS: GREECE CAN'T PRETEND ITS DEBT BURDEN IS SUSTAINABLE
- *TSIPRAS: IT'S VITAL FOR GREECE'S PUBLIC DEBT TO BE RESTRUCTURED
Wait What!!
The Germans are not happy... the remarks caused a stir in Germany where voters and politicians are increasingly reluctant to lend Greece money.
Bild daily splashed the comments on the front page and ran an editorial comment urging European leaders to stop providing Greece with ever more financial support.
"The Greek government is behaving as if everyone must dance to its tune. But there must be an end to this madness. Europe must not be made to look stupid," wrote a commentator.
* * *
European 'Union' indeed.
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Folks....
Greece is bankrupt.
France is bankrupt.
Spain is bankrupt.
Italy is bankrupt.
Germany is bankrupt. The EU is bankrupt.
UK is bankrupt.
USA is bankrupt.
The Western monetary system is bankrupt.
No one wants to lay that shit out, except Greece just laid down their part of it (Varoufakis is polite, he could lay the whole thing down but has not).
Let's fill in some blanks.
Bankrupt Greece is asking bankrupt EU/Trioka/IMF/Whatever the Fuck, for "restructuring" or "another loan it can't pay back."
Bankrupt Germany is saying "No way, you make us look stupid."
Do you dear reader, see a problem here? All of us on ZH should.
Bankrupt entities cannot loan bankrupt entities money. They have to manufacture it from somewhere. Manufacture means "make it up." They are giving them the right to run up debt and spend, provided they spend it the way they want them to. They are not giving them money.
The Germans or EU or whoever the fuck is not "losing money" here. They are losing credibility because the story of money and debt itself is not holding water.
There is a flow of credit. They will agree to the flow of credit provided they can influence where it goes. Don't let them influence it, they cut off the credit flow.
If my read on Varoufakis is correct, he is threatening to tell the world the king is nude, to show exactly what is really going on. What is being contested is the influence of the flow of the credit. There is no real money at stake, just skim off the credit flow.
I hope that made sense.
Missy.... That is a thing of beauty.
Oh and they're weaving the back hair to the pubes. It's an old Greek tradition around gay weddings.
If you do not pay the Piper, he spirits your children away into a mountain.
Horrible regret ensues.
What's funny is that what the Greeks have admitted is true of pretty much all soverign debt world wide. When will everyone catch on to the fact that the Greeks are just another statistic.
Europe must not look stupid, eh? Who financed this, again? http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/architect-forgets-elevator-fo...
Draghi prints to repay Greek debts. Greece ain't going to default. What's he complaining about.
Germany needs to collect it's dues from Goldman Sachs.
After all they are totally responsible for fudging the Greek accounts for Greece to enter the EMU and the Euro.
Greece 2015 = Argentina 2001
He said hello. It was obviously an insult, so I made a formal complaint via our ambassador who is in charge of that sort of thing.
Let's just be clear and state the obvious: Mr V.'s game part of the theory is that he clearly wants Greece to default - that's his mandate which he himself advocated a few years ago. At the same time, he cannot openly state that that is the goal. For one, it would show bad faith. Second, he may not have been aware of all the consequences of a default, i.e. the populace might string him to a pole. So the safer thing is to blame others for what is about to happen. I don't think he knew what he was getting himself into.
As far as 'unsustainable debt' goes. I disagree that Greece could not manage. Pretty much any kind of debt is sustainable, if you get a great enough interest rate deal over a long time frame. All you have to do is to commit to lowering it to a proper level over some ridiculous time frame.
The crux is that this is only credible if you commit to never deficit spend again. That is the one thing that a country has to give up. Of course, politics thrives on deficit spending, but should you care? It's entirely reasonable to rein in the politicians for the sake of bringing a country's finances in order.
Precisely,, amd this case the only "great enough" interest rate would be a negative rate,
say minus 15% , that should clear it over the next 6 years or so.
It's kind of funny that apparently the IMF has such gravity that it is seeing some of its money back, to the degree of Greece voluntarily raiding its pension funds (we all know they won't pay off anyone else). So you can only screw over other countries, but not the IMF? How come?
The Germans are furious?? LOL! Just wait until the Chinese figure out that the U.S. has absolutely no intention of paying them back, ever.
(The Germans thought the Greeks would pay them back. That's a good one. Lol. Honestly, you just can't make this stuff up. Hell, the Germans knew they were broke when they made the loans!)
More to the point, the German banks are shitting themselves, the cover-up is creaking horribly, and the politicans have to divert attention to some plausibly hapless third party.
Europe must not be made to look stupid . . . now that comment alone is priceless. See what we're up against? The cunt is oblivious as to how the majority of us who care to express an opinion feel about him , a bought and paid for Commentator , speaking on behalf of the political elite crony slime.
A murderous horde of scum allowing lethal weapons to be built up in Europe is an indication of how truly fucking stupid these sociopaths are.
This documentary the article talks of has an interview of Mr. Varoufakis in the summer of 2014. Not his fault the German people didn't see it then but had it shoved in their living rooms almost a year later. Any interview, lecture, or speach Mr. V has given BEFORE he was made minister of finance has the same point: Greece is bankrupt and loaning a bankrupt country to pay off a debt is ridiculous. Actually, it's amazing the Commission turned a blind eye to this. Makes one wonder why they did it.
"The Greek government is behaving as if everyone should dance to its tune."
Replace Greek with German and you're closer to the truth in Europe. And that situation has to change. It cannot be that the country that turned Europe into rubbles two times during the last century and slaughtered huge parts of Europe's population can tell others how to be behave.
Its hardly credible to make that bunch if demented fuck witted assholes with the prima donna attitude of some nonagenarian godfather with senility and dementia whose mafia links are the cruddy little no mark pointless shit for brains minions who work in Brussels to look "not stupid"
Like trying to make a blue sky look bright green
Bad lender + bad borrower = clown show
I feel bad for the hardworking, financially responsible Greeks.
Both of them.
And I feel bad for the average German, who has been robbed by his politicians and central bank.
We know how you feel.
C'mon, Greece! You can do better. Be a little creative. Let's swap all your debt so it is interest-only for 10 years. Then let's make the coupon rate negative. Problem solved. Surely, you will be able to 'pay' -5% per year for 10 years, no?
You need a bit of marketing, too. Do not use scary words like 'debt restructuring' and 'bankrupt', for crying out loud. Use 'liability realignment' or 'reconfiguration' and 'temporarily cash strapped' or 'transitory liquidity constrainment' instead.
These are words that work for you so we trying to use them correctly, thanks for the tip.
I have a better idea...Why dont you get off you comfortable managerial chair, vote for something different and out of the blue (like a leftist party or other) in your country and seriously do something about changing this world... like we (The Greeks) are doing.
Its called..."standing up" or "fighting"....and you my friend should use these word instead of "yielding" or "submission".
I honestly like great swaths of Europe, the culture, the food. Great stuff. But Euro politicians (especially the EU variety) are the most deluded bunch of self-serving pussies ever created. So the Germans demand that their leaders to stop providing Greece with ever more financial support. No shit Sherlock, that is exactly what the Greeks are saying, they don't want any more loans as it's doing nothing but destroying Greek society and serving no one except the decadent zombie banks who continue to pretend that they are actually solvent. This fantasy that all Greeks are all sitting around drinking ouzo on the beach with the bill paid by Germany is simply more media spin. Ordinary Greeks are increasingly poor and desperate, and if no change of direction happens under Syriza, then Golden Dawn will get the call and the country will go up in flames and take most of the neighborhood with it. Desperate people with no hope have nothing to lose.
I'm Greek, I have worked 14 hours per day all my adult life, I'm an expert in vacuum excavations, loading etc, I pay 18 different taxes in my daily life and always have, I have bills and mortgages and I also drink lots of ouzo, dance and lie down alot.
Lately I also have developed a new habit that goes like this..."I do not care one little bit about your financial world, you lend that money to my corrupted politician, BAD LUCK, you can pay for it", not me.
Now if you are to swear and blame me please do it for the above one reason.
PS: Golden Dawn is a medicine, a poison, that we need to take in small doses in order to make our bodies immune to snake bites, Golden Dawn will never become anything more then it is in Greece. Greeks do not like fascism and extremism, our history shows that.
Thanks for caring.
Like Germany didn't know!
Am skeptical about BILD, and even more skeptical about their commentary.
It is the same, as to read directly Schaeuble's diary and the orders from his Frankurt banks masters.
Just "read" his face in every photo of his you see while next to Varoufakis.
Excuse my lavish, tax evading, lazy, Greek brain but last time someone said.."...madness..." to my leaders they did not ended up in a good place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qR0Uke2XNI
Its ok people, you just keep talking while we The Greeks are fighting your German master, after all we did it first and best back in the 40s too...nothing that we dont know how to do.
"Crimes against humanity" Now we are on Germany's specialist subject. You wont win that one Greece
Are you sure?
I think we already have as...you are talking about it.
You know what is one of the fundamentals of this "soap opera"? This is not longer the case of a rogue conspiracy theorist fight against big brother, this is not about a blogger telling the world how we are victims of the bankers...This is a country telling it to the world.
So happened to be that this country is the same one that a million light-years ago showed the world an other truth that is called "democracy".
Rest assure my friend, we are winning every day, we are simply paying a huge price for it...but who gives a S$&#@...its onl money!
The people of Europe are stupid.
The bankers of Europe are devious...(they must keep the people in debt...whether they ask for it or not.)
Do not forget. 'Europe' is a fiction ...... PEOPLE ARE NOT.
If they didn't want to look stupid, they should never have launched the Euro, or engaged in all the crass manipulations, lies, bullshit, deceit, arrogance, cock-ups, wilful abuses, sheer ragged incompetence, procrastination, hubris... need I go on?
In my dealings with the fraternal and heavily reciprocal financial establishment in mainland Europe, their capacity to believe everything will go their way because they say so, despite the heavily-covered-up truth and wilful false accounting, has never failed to amaze me. I am referring as much to those in countries generally viewed as financially sound (hello Germany, Switzerland, Holland) as those that were always obvious basket cases (I'm including you, France, in that lot).
Liars and hypocrites, the bloody lot. Fwiw, I'm referring to the sleazy financial and political establishments, and not to the average Jose in the street.
via tabloid Bild, "there must be an end to this madness. Europe must not be made to look stupid."
Coming from the arse and tits porno gutter "press" that is about as pathetic as it becomes.
Mr Wheelchair ("I accept brown envelopes stuffed full of cash") Schaueble is the darling of the German tits and bums gutter "press" where this bankster game is feverishly used to drum up sentiment of NAZI proportions. It was the Germans that turned this global bankster rape into a national socialist hate fest among the Uruppean muppet nations. What is now patently obvioUS is that the NAZIS are running the politburo of pedophiles in BrUSsel$ completely alligned with the Third World Fourth Reich Washing town mob and that is the true clash of civilizations while all the Langley Mo$$ad Saudi I$I$ BS plays out for the gung hoers.
From party bagman to bankster bagman.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Sch%C3%A4uble
"there must be an end to this madness. Europe must not be made to look stupid."
too late
Just default already and move on. Ooops! Forgot about all those derivatives.
If Charles Darwin had been an economist, he might have come up with a Theory on the Evolution of Sovereign Debt.
It would start out as "a hope (aka: naive belief) that coupons AND principal will be received and returned".
It evolves into "hope that at least coupons will be serviced, and that I'll be bonused and pensioned before the principal is vaporized".
It further evolves into "I'll willingly PAY the coupon myself to the borrower, and I only fantasize about being bonused and pensioned before even the negative-yielding principal is vaporized".
It is in this last evolutionary phase when the faithful believe salvation becomes possible. For example, if Germany would just issue about $30 trillion of minus 50 pips sovereign paper, it could extingish its current outstanding debt in about ten years, and extend and pretend on this newly issued $30 trillion, beginning the whole process over again. In other words, rather than reaching Debt Nirvana, society just climbs aboard the Great Wheel again for another round, giving everyone a chance to do it all better next time.
Randians might chime in here and say at this last evolutionary phase it is Government that is "Going Galt" by threatening to take away the only thing Governments produce, which is debt. In fear of losing this increasingly sought-after "production", the masses are willing to pay for the privilege of acquiring it, hence the negative yields. I am willing to toss Darwin and consider Rand in this instance. Heck, I'm even willing to join the Creationists and chant with them, "That's why they call it a 'theory'".
Greek & Ukrainian Bail-outs for Dummies
I think the Greeks have finally realised that the ‘bail-outs’ are just a theft-mechanism to grab valuable assets as inducements or security for 'loans' - created out of thin air; with 'privatisations' of state assets for pennies-on-the-dollar to our ‘associates’; punishing austerity to extend the cash flow a bit longer to pay 'interest' on said electronic money; whilst additional 'bail-outs' create another cycle of theft for a few more years; and finally the planned and inevitable 'defaults' cause seizures of those remaining secured assets – as the victim is sucked dry.
So in 5 years, the 'lenders' get a nation's entire valuable state-asset-base and more besides - like getting the public indebted on credit – due to price inflation and wage deflation or mortgaged up to the hilt - due to artificially inflated property prices, all by adding several zeros to a few bank accounts, and creating a legally binding piece of paper, called a loan contract, signed by the prostiticians, and a rather large number of stupid ‘debtors’.
“Now, welcome Ukraine, to the world of private central banking and the ‘bail-out loan’ system. We hope you enjoy your poverty and the lack of valuable possessions going forward, as we start taking them from now, until you have nothing left to steal. Greece have enjoyed our system of serfdom for 5 years now and we are so efficient, we think we can take you to the cleaners by the end of this year, that’s only 2 years, because we also started a civil war to get millions of your people off the valuable land we want to take over for our ‘associates’.”
The answer is pretty simple . . . Greece should declare that the "money" lent to it, particularly, as from the likes of the ECB, is fraudulently, digitally, created "credit' . . . not actual real currency . . . an that, instead of being threatendd with deabt slavery, Greece should repay the ECB types with equally fraudulent, digitally created "repayment of credit" and have the creditors likewise write-off, as in reverse their digital book entries.
Remember, ths was the country that Goldman Sachs sold on the idea that it could commit a fraud on the ECU regarding its true debt levels by use of arcane derivates . . .
I say, run a reverse process on the banking cartel and hoist them by their own petard!
Oh, better yet, sue GSax for the fraud