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Germany Gives Greece One Final Ultimatum After Friday's "Optimistic" Talks Devolve Into Disagreement And Confusion
On Friday, the main catalyst that launched the early ramp in the EURUSD, subsequently sending both the Dax over 12,000, and the US stock market soaring, was speculation and hope that the latest round of Greek talks on late Thursday night ahead of tomorrow key meeting between Tsipras and Merkel in Berlin, had gone well, and there was a reason to be optimistic about the near-term for a Greece which increasingly more see as on the verge of expulsion from the monetary union. We explained as much, although we added the provision that at this point it is likely too late to do much if anything about Greece in "German DAX Surges Over 12,000 On Greek Optimism, But The Money Has Run Out."
Now, courtesy of reporting by the FT, we can also rule out any of the so-called optimism in the aftermath of Thursday's talks because as Peter Spiegel reports, not only was there no real consensus, but the talks "ended in disarray", and even though "Greece’s prime minister and fellow Eurozone leaders emerged from a meeting early on Friday morning touting a breakthrough agreement to unlock much-needed bailout funds for Athens — only to fall into disagreement hours later about what it all meant."
Two days of intensive and occasionally heated negotiations at an EU summit in Brussels amounted to little more than a repeat of talks a month ago between eurozone finance ministers that officials then also hailed as the definitive agreement to get the final bailout review under way.
And the punchline, "so similar were the two deals that, much like the one finalised last month, leaders involved in the talks could not agree on what was agreed within 12 hours after a late-night meeting aimed at resolving all differences."
The underlying problem for Greece, as we have been writing ever since October, is that the country is not only out of money, but it is now almost $4 billion in the hole. It is, in effect, insolvent. Which is why Greece is now desperate to walk back on all of its election promises because having lost the one trump card it had, namely to default on its Eurosystem debt (precisely what the infamous Varoufakis "middle finger" speech was all about), or exist the Eurozone on its own terms, Greece is now scrambling to survive day to day, even as its bank run threatens to implode its banks at any given moment. More from the FT:
Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, made clear at a post-summit news conference that the starting point for Alexis Tsipras, Greek prime minister, was a December 10 inventory of incomplete reforms promised by the previous Greek government. “The Greek government has the opportunity to pick individual reforms that are still outstanding as of 10 December and replace them with other reforms if they . . . have the same effect,” Ms Merkel said.
It is a potentially incendiary demand since the document Ms Merkel referred to — a letter written by Greece’s then centre-right prime minister Antonis Samaras and his finance minister Gikas Hardouvelis — was the focus of particular scorn for Mr Tsipras’s far-left Syriza party on the campaign trail.
Mr Tsipras insisted at his own press conference that Ms Merkel was mistaken. “Forget the commitment of the former government. There are no austerity measures. There is no letter of Hardouvelis,” Mr Tsipras argued. “I asked [the other leaders]: do you expect me to . . . go through this evaluation and implement measures that Mr Samaras was not able to implement? The answer was no.”
No, Merkel is not mistaken as will be made abundnatly cleat tomorrow during the Berlin press conference after the Merkel-Tsipras meeting, which may well lead to the Euro losing all of its sharp gains achieved on Friday due to another dose of premature Greek optimism.
As a result the biggest problem for Syriza's government, which still has preserved its pre-election popularity, is that any minute now both Merkel and Tsipras will make the formal announcement that the hated Troika is coming back. That, together with the realization that the current government is nothing but a continuation of the Samaras regime, will likely lead to a new round of social unrest culminating perhaps with another general election.
According to people briefed on the talks, Mr Tsipras opened with demands for additional cash with few strings attached, acknowledging his government may not make it to the end of April without an injection of bailout funds. But his push lasted only the first 10 minutes before the other leaders convinced him it was unachievable. Instead, much of the session focused on logistical arrangements in Athens, where Greek officials have thrown up hurdles to international bailout monitors seeking to access data to evaluate the country’s reform efforts.
Mr Draghi was particularly incensed, telling Mr Tsipras he believed the inspectors — from the ECB, European Commission and International Monetary Fund — had been badly treated by their hosts. Mr Tsipras countered that allowing such access would be a violation of Greek sovereignty. But he relented after Ms Merkel noted all IMF members are subject to annual reviews involving access to a country’s books.
The Greek finance ministry, meanwhile, signalled it was adopting a new conciliatory stance, saying officials “look forward to receiving” requests from the inspectors and would respond “in the same constructive spirit”.
So yes, the Troika is on its way. As it the final final German ultimatum to Greece. Earlier today, Volker Kauder, head of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s party bloc in parliament, told Handelsblatt in an interview that Greece should use this “last chance” to stay in euro by presenting reform proposals that creditors can accept. Kauder also said that Greece can rule out a third bailout “under current circumstances" adding that the Greek government needs to step up efforts to raise taxes, scrap "nonsensical” tax privileges, including those for shipowners (for more on the latter read "Why Greek Shipping Billionaires Are Sweating").
As for tomorrow's critical, and potentially make or break, meeting between Tsipras and Merkel in Berlin, here is what Kathimerini said earlier:
In a statement to Sunday’s Kathimerini, Tsipras said the meeting was an opportunity for the two leaders to talk without pressure. The meeting “will not be pressurized by negotiations,” the premier said. “And this is very significant because we can both discuss the important issues that are burdening Europe as well as improving bilateral relations between the two countries.”
Tsipras highlighted a “unique opportunity to pursue changes which previous governments did not dare to attempt, either because they were committed to powerful interests or because they did not have popular support.”
What he really means is that tomorrow is when the lies and can kicking end, and either Tsipras capitulates fully, and irrevocably, in public, without a hint of any doubt as to who is calling the shots thereby burning all pre-election promise bridges, or Greece will be out of the Eurozone in a matter of days if not hours.
Indeed, the following caption we presented first on Friday is more relevant now than ever before.
"Yes Alexis, time is running out. Fast." pic.twitter.com/OZEUJJQ5g7
— Jamie McGeever (@ReutersJamie) March 19, 2015
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Ths is all so yesterday.
except for those people I see eating out of Garbage bins here in Greece
Their is 99.99percent chance that Greece will make a deal before u s markets open sending spx futures higher
Why not 100 percent. I can dream can't I
I mean it.......this is the very LAST chance.......really....I'm serious
They'll make a deal at 11:59 with another minute left to do lines of blow off of Frau Merkel's ass.
But I bet the next crisis summit will really fix the problem.
Merkel is not mistaken as will be made abundnatly cleat tomorrow
Is that a global banker cleat as in Orwell's "Imagine a boot stomping on a human face-forever" ?
Coool typos make the reading more fun...was it meant to be a typo or was it a subliminal typo ?
Eye-candy time (2:56 minutes !) Exciting times !!
Charming Merkel
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102525221
90-95% of people in any country are ignorant, they like to watch CSI Miami every evening, drink some beer and go to sleep as stupid as they were when they woke up. In democracy, these people choose the leaders. Remember Homobama?
We are pretty much f.cked with democracy. This system needs to and eventually it will collapse.
The shipowners have a tax break because of Aristotle Onassis's past actions.
Tax a shipping tycoon too hard, and, one day, when all of his ships are out of port, he renounces citizenship and changes the flags on all of his ships. The retards in the troika do not understand that this is the only way to collect ANY tax from them.
The flags on the ships are already Liberian, Panamanian, or from Vanuatu.
Onassis's ships originally flew greek flags.
Yes, nowadays all ships that aren't taking some kind of home port advantage ( like American merchant marine coastal vessels ) are convenience flagged.
Same effect though, just faster these days. Billionaire packs bags, and makes sure none of his ships are in port in his soon to be former country.
It's so easy that a 3rd grader can understand it:
So why insist on something that will drive out the shipowners and cause even more unemployment? Shipping is also such an important part of their balance of trade. It gives ammo to the people who believe that EU/Germany are out to make Greece a backwater colony.
The cleat you tie off the hangmans rope to.
+1
Almost pissed my pants that was so funny.
Yeah, this is unheard of in the US./sarc
Debt makes you free – Schuld macht frei, just as in “Arbeit macht frei”? ;-)
Looney
Suprisingly, enough debt does make you free. A creditor with a huge loan out doesn't dare poke his debtor too hard.
Easy call... if Tsipras caves... he will be thrown out of office or murdered... if he works a deal with China and/or Russia, he wins big... what do YOU think he will choose? BTW: Grexit... Gold to $2000 in a month.
"No really, this time I'm really..really...really taking my ball home. I'm not joking this time!"
for those old enough to remember, Lucy and the football from Peanuts.....
Gold to $2000? In what currency? Certainly not in USD.
About the best description of a Clusterfuck I have ever seen...
They desparately need Homobama to demonstrate his schoolyard tactic of drawing lines in the dirt and double-dog daring the other kid to cross it.
This is all bluster, Greece cannot pay and the EU knows it, all bluster for the USA bankster controlled IMF to drink champagne and talk big to each other. The Shinola will hit the fan if any puppet starts giving away assets. That's all the Troika can "wish for in the one hand". I have to admire a people that do not allow a Judas Goat to lead them to the evil tax man to pay tribute to a bunch of low-life psychopaths. We Americans are pussies.
The options for Greece get fewer and fewer with every passing hour and also more unpalatable. This is going to end very badly for Greece in the short term with Greece leaving the EU and the economy shrinking by 20% or more for the next couple of years.
All Greek debt will have to be written off. The derivatives dominoes will be crashing for quite a while.
If the derivatives could be paid off, Greece would have been allowed to crash and leave along time ago. And, why would China and Rusia want another money pit shithole like Cuba or North Korea? This is Europe's knife, let them catch it.
For Greek ZHers there's an excellent series of articles by Kathimerini on grexit practicalities (I couldn't find them in the english language edition) -- http://www.kathimerini.gr/808402/article/epikairothta/politikh/ka8e-apof... , http://www.kathimerini.gr/808394/article/epikairothta/politikh/ta-10-vhm... , http://www.kathimerini.gr/808398/article/epikairothta/politikh/ellhniko-... , http://www.kathimerini.gr/808405/article/epikairothta/politikh/apoyh-oi-...
Greece forms a Commission to audit public debt
Wow, this is a key piece of information. Previous governments refused/put it off. Syriza put it off as well at the beginning.
Bullshitzzz... The can kicking will go on and on and on and on... F@cking groundhog day...
Can't go on forever. Sooner or later the hyperinflationary piper must be paid.
That's the nice thing about Western politians. Once they capitulate, they stay capitulated.
Counterfeit Greek printed Euros, anyone?
Greek economy isn't going to shrink 20% anyway?
Tsipras has no choice but defauld and turn to Russia and China. In medium term (a month) he can call a new election or a referendum to ask the Greek people for a mandate to separate from EU, but really the clock's run out on that.
What he has achieved is a clear demonstration to the Greek people that they have no choice but to fight, and never did. There will be a huge sigh of relief when Greece gets the boot, and then a mobilization for battle.
Stockholm syndrome where both are captives.
Nothing is going to improve until the Greek economy undergoes major pro-market reforms (sell off state enterprises, deregulate private enterprise, cut government spending all around, gut the welfare state to give Greeks an incentive to work).
The Greek economy is so unproductive as a result of those restrictions on the market that it cannot sustain the current Greek standard of living - even given how much that has already dropped. The only thing keeping it going is foreign financial support. Sooner or late that is going to stop, and if the Greeks haven't made those structural reforms by then....?
...they're going to be looking back at the present as the good old days.
There isn't much to gut, at least compared to other countries. The long term unemployed (> 1 year) get nothing, not even health care benefits. The biggest chunk is pensions. They're going to have to cut to the bone there. Once upon a time it had actual funds in it, before they gutted it with haircuts and recent loan to pay IMF.
Or Greece ends up with a Military Coup.
If only...
It seems to me like the average Greek voter is too devoted to socialism for a reform government to ever get elected. A military coup may in fact be the only solution. It's happened before in Greece, I suppose it could happen again.
OK!
Alexis.
Go for it!
Go visit Mr Putin.
A nice military base in Greece.
Airforce and naval.
With two fingers up to NATO.
Huge numbers will applaud you right across the EUSSR.
Not least me.
And if you can bring down the EUSSR and/or NATO I promise to kiss your feet.
If Greece is so important to the EU/US/NATO as some rumors have it, then any attempt to leave will cause a "revolution". You know Arab Spring, Maidan Square job.
The 23rd day of the month is traditionally a good date to sign a pact in Moscow.
Worked out well for Ribbentrop.
Greece will bleed itself to death at the hands of the EU until the Greek people take control of their destiny.
Zero hour is coming: either accept the pain of becoming sovereign or submit and die as debt slaves.
"The underlying problem for Greece, as we have been writing ever since October, is that the country is not only out of money, but it is now almost $4 billion in the hole."
Is today or tomorrow, the next 24 hours, it ?
Won't the gravitational effects along with the dominos cause other PIIGS effects ?
Wow.
Exciting down to the wire with plenty of eye-candy too !
Why Tsipras needs to turn on the charm with Merkelhttp://www.cnbc.com/id/102525221
3-ways to win:
Gold/Silver/tangibles
Shorts *but short what?*
VXX (VIX) volatility
Perhaps wait for the dust to settle and all the money gets sucked out of EU and into "good and safe" investments... will S&P500 go to the moon soon ? but then later crash.
The S&P will go to fucking Alpha Centauri when all those US dollars fly home when the jig is up.
But that lightyears high stack of greenbacks still won't buy a cup of coffee.
I couldn't have put it better myself!
There's only one way for Greeks.
Out of the EU NOW! If they can as I believe that Germany France UK won't allow them to.
The annexation of Greece has been in the works for awhile ...
Mark my words, Greece will cave and make a deal.
The Greeks always make deals - but never live up to them. They are the world's most accomplished liars, and tax cheats. They even lieand cheat each other. Give it up. They need to be taught a lesson - about 10 years of bone crushing poverty. Maybe then the younger ones will take over and start a "new" Greece; one with morals and a conscience.
Agreed, but I see no reason to uphold one's moral obigation to pay their debts to a bank when the banks are bailed out by the very taxpayers who are expected to uphold their debt.
Banks (Central and otherwise) have caused their own problems by removing the moral hazard of having to live up to their actions.
At this point virtually everyone should just shirk their debt (worldwide) and finally show the banks who ultimately has the power. No repayment means total collapse of the very enslavement the WORLD is under.
Just my opinion, YMMV.
Agreed. You will find this article very interesting by a young Greek with as sense of his countries history.http://www.athensguide.com/journalists/articles/honestman.htm
Of course we could all say the same about the guys running this country. See Blodgett's artice on BI today about the 90 vs 10 issue. Me I think the following:
My thoughts - IN SUMMMARY and CONCLUSION
some men have morals, some don’t
some men are honest, some are crooks
some men work, some don’t
some workers save, some don’t
some savers invest, some don’t
some go to school, some don’t
same go into politics, some don’t
some go into banking or brokerage, some don’t
some rig the system, and some don’t (but wish they could learn how)
all the politicians and bankers live off of the labor and savings of those who do work
and those blood-sucking cockroaches, bedbugs, lice, nits, weevils, mice, rats, sons and daughters of incubus and succubus, and scum sucking viruses are supported and encouraged, and their tactics hidden from view by world-class bought and sold windbag media types
and it has gone so far that the America of our fathers has no chance
men with courage, conviction, integrity and the backbone of self-reliance on honest principles are in short supply
such men stand no chance against cheating, greedy, self-indulgent, conscienceless politicians, public officials, appeasers, capitulators, and phony regulators, and scumbag banksters
an honest man in Washington DC, or any state capital, or on Wall Street would never stand a chance
Those Banksters and their Politicians have fewer morals and a lower conscience than even the non-dues paying delinquent Auschwitz Human Ornamental Sewers & Stitchers Lamp Shade Makers Union combined with the full-fledged and highly regarded members of the Buchenwald Medical Experimentation Technicians & Labor Assembly, and the Dachau and Lublin Amalgamated Oven & Incinerator Operators Maintenance and Repair Union members.
And we thought you couldn’t go any lower than that until ZIRP:
If you really wanted to financially ass rape the most people you would set interest rates negative, the only way to make money is to borrow it (Politician) and have them (the folks) pay you through the Banksters for it. Credit/debt would get extended enormously. You would broadcast to the people your intentions of things going on like this forever. Then, with no warning, you would reverse course and buy up all the bankrupt people's stuff for pennies on the dollar.
When the negative deposit rate reaches unbelievable proportions – it will soon be -3% in the EU - on the woe begotten theory that you must force the savers to use their money – spend it you old dumb fucks who voted us into power and who have destroyed your lifetime of prudent and responsible savings – and shut up and die. What did you think when we took over the state governments and ran gigantic negative funded retirement plans, and how stupid could you be re-electing us over and over while the unfunded liabilities of Social Security and Medicare rose every year.
I look for the next Robespierre*, Lenin, Hitler, Stalin, Mao Zedong, nothing less will fix this mess:
*“Terror is only justice: prompt, severe and inflexible; it is then an emanation of virtue; it is less a distinct principle than a natural consequence of the general principle of democracy, applied to the most pressing wants of the country.”
I bet voodoo dolls of Greenspan, Bernanke, Draghi, Abe, and Yellen, etc., would fly off the shelves and possibly even revive the economy!!!
jldpc you were vaguely making sense until you "casually" threw in the lampshades and ovens meme which has been thoroughly debunked a long time ago. Either you are trying to be a subtle troll or you are someone who gets their"history" from TV and Hollywood rather than actual historians (some of whom have been or are in prison for trying to tell the real story)
Historians who think the guy's name is Eisenhauer and that he murdered 1,000,000 POWs while Germany gave out lollipops to everyone it "liberated".
Yeah and most ZH'ers think you're a ziocunt.
If they agree with you zionazi?
Col Klink.
You miss Stalag?
Ja und ja. Danke!
@Jidpc
Spoken like at true zionist . Never considered the mistates of the Troika lending money to who could not pay ? The future generations in Greece would have to pay for the criminality of the current politicians ? Welcome to feudalism and banksters control .......Time to consider using pithcforks
Yes the rest of the world can teach them about morals and conscience, like USA, Germany, China, Russia. They can learn a new trade from them as well: efficient murder.
The KM will have none of that:
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/03/08/the-hidden-history-of-the-incred...
One final, last, never-to-be-repeated, this-time-we-mean-it ultimatum. Or not.
Your user name is hilarious.
Tsipras could be remembered as a hero if he detonated a suicide belt during a meeting.
Like, mystery like solved, gang!
https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=eg_use...!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=eg_use_pcap_kg_oe&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:GRC:DEU&ifdim=region&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false
Unless that red line starts going up YoY, nothing changes for Greece.
Gotta love those new deep water Russian naval ports soon to be under construction, no...?
I'm all for it. Let Russia take over the financing of Greece.
That's how the original Empire of Evil fell-- having to drain the Motherland to pay for all of the economically-bankrupt slave states it created with NLFs.
It's working good for Venezuela too, at the moment.
Its not GREECE, its the MONEY-SYSTEM
Credit Default Swaps - Banks:
http://cds-info.com/
Of course it isn't Greece. Nobody speaking honestly and knowledgedly would say it's Greece.
Quite funny actually.
I mean look at the financial wizards of our western world. They are masters of the Universe, super educated and make new economic rules.
But after everything said and done, they are basically requesting governments to borrow money to pay for debt. and the only source they have is the hard earned wealth of the people.
They are exposing themselves as pathetic fools who cannot create wealth even with all the resources they have.
If Greece avoids making the deal with the devil, we may finally come to a point where this pathetic fools will have to start looking for a new job. Game over.
This is played out. They already raided the pensions, and Greece has miserable living conditions. The current government's only move was to try and collect more taxes. Same as it ever was.
what's the problem,,, just do as USA does... PRINT!!
need more ink!!! bitchas
What ever the final statement contains I hope the last line consists of " we tried to reach an agreement but the Troika obviously wants us to be debt slaves forever so we are defaulting as of now. Goodbye"
Odd how no one is suggesting that perhaps the Greek people should have a vote on staying in the EU/EuroZ, eh?
It's almost as if the politicians do not give a single, solitary fuck about the people who elected them.
Talk, talk, talk, talk. Hmmm. How does talking about hundreds of billions of debt to EU bankers lead to a solution, when the state of Greece and it's people do not have the money? What Germany wants is Greece to keep taking loans to service existing debts while growing deep into debt and slashing public services and selling public assets. All to EU bankers. As long as Greece can be strung along, the longer Greek assets will have to be sold cheap and the more money pours into EU banks. Germany knows Greece will collapse and fail, they just want to suck every drop of Greek blood before that happens.
The new ECB building, costing over a billions dollars to build, a castle of bankers, this is where they will sit a strip Ireland, Greece, Ukraine, Spain, Italy, Portugal, and others of every last asset class and every public service. Gas rates, water rates, garbage rates, health care rates, every government service will be sold to EU banks hiding behind Private Equity funds who will buy it all a cheap prices and begin to charge higher and higher rates.
This is debt slavery of the kind not seen since serfs roamed the fields of England. Only this time the Lord in his castle, will be the EU Bankers in their glass towers.
History may not repeat exactly, but it certainly seems to rhyme. Especially at the parts where the bankers win.
At some point, which maybe now, borrowing more even at reduced rates doesn't help. At this point its better to default (although it will be extremely painful, or you would think)
I think their best play maybe to default and then borrow from the IMF and ECB printing but then this would set off the rest of PIGS to do the same.
There is no good way to fix this.
But at some point, my name will come to be.
Standing back for a moment, don't all these huge risk "overhangs" cause issue with getting the next massive printing up and running ?
I'd expect some global solution to clear-out all the risks first...before the next campaigns.
Bread and Circus.
Could,nt Germany claim war crime reparations from USA(over 1 million German POWs murdered by Eisenhauer), Britain(half a million incinerated civilian women children and men in one night at Dresden, biggest mass slaughter in a single day in history), ex Soviet states (mass gang rape of just about every female, including children, in Germany 45-47). This could run into hundreds of billions , then ,voila, Germany could make a one off "reparation" to Greece and wipe out the entire debt and have a hundred bill or so left to pay to their rape survivors and families of bereaved ?
Djiesselbloom looks like he 's just swallowed his own fart.
Apparently Greece has hit its "Minsky moment" and a Grexit would expose the Euro Union's "Minsky Moment" Pulling up a lawn chair and drinks to watch the show...
Why won't they arrest Draghi? Arrest him.
Greeks have no balls or morals. I have contacted them through their website and these socialist cant be be bothered to write back because they are too busy reading Karl Marx.
I cant believe these guys kicked off democracy and now their tongues are down Merkals backside.
agreed. i have no sympathy
The Euro Keystone Kops cartoon continues:
1. Greece is out of cash, stealing from pension and trust funds to meet payments;
2. Greeks are rushing to withdraw all they can from Greek banks, and the Greek banks are surviving day to day on cash infusions from the EU emergency liquidity facility;
3. Germany leads the crowd of EU finance ministers demanding a complete surrender by Tsipras and Varoufakis to the Troika program of "reforms" and continued Extend and Pretend, or else the Troika will refuse to provide any more cash to meet the runs on Greek banks;
4. The 2010 and 2012 "bail-outs" and imposed austerity have not improved Greece's economy or budgetary situation - Greece is mired deep in depression with reduced GDP and increasing debt. If Greece agrees to continue with the Troika's "reforms" program, Greece will be kept on a drip feed of more loans, while its people and economy continue to struggle and its debt level increases;
5. If Greece does not agree to the Troika demands, Greece will have an immediate liquidity crisis and seems destined to default on its debts;
6. If Tsipras and Varoufakis fold to Troika pressure, they will face an immediate political crisis in Greece, and their government may fall, leaving an uncertain political direction for Greece. Greece might re-elect Samaras and his right-wing government, or might take a more chaotic path via extreme left or right wing political parties. Political calm is not in the cards;
7. If Greece defaults, it seems likely to cause a meltdown of the Euro system and a cascade of derivative defaults.
8. Germany can defuse the Greek crisis by leading a move to easing Greece's austerity rules, giving Tsipras and Varoufakis some face-saving cover and getting them to agree to Extend and Pretend. This would kick the can down the road for a while;
9. The German government, EU finance ministers, and the governing politicians in Spain and Portugal fear that any easing of Greece's austerity rules would be unpopular with their voting constituencies and would encourage anti-austerity parties in other PIIGS nations to demand similar or more easing of their austerity programs;
10. While Greece's requests for easing of austerity rules are being met with loud denunciation by Germany and EU finance ministers, Italy and France are being granted relief from budget-deficit restraints under their austerity programs;
11. The hard line being taken against Greece risks blowing up the entire Euro project and the current Euro financial house of cards.
It seems that German/EU vs. Greek political considerations are trumping economic and social considerations within the Euro zone. Germany expects the PIIGS to accept austerity, falling GDP and falling prosperity, while Germany enjoys its trade and financial surpluses.
The EU is rapidly morphing into Greater Germany, with Germany as the economic center and the periphery as the provinces of the new German Empire.
In short, the EU is doomed.
Boring, ridiculous, and crazy on both sides. Doing the same things over and over, expecting a different outcome.
Bankers always win. Greece has to fold.
Sorry, will fold.
The do not have to.
Yes, the final ultimatum...... Deliver those three chicken souvlaki gyros with feta and yogurt by 4:00PM or vee veel bomb zee acropolis.... again!
Amurican puppet Merkel will do, what Netanyahu in Tel Aviv decides.
either a referendum will come
or
greek colonels will come.
How comes Hillary ain't in this freakshow?
How about cutting all Greek public sector payments to only what is received in Greek tax payments ..... would that be worth a try?
......democracy says no.
Well, let me speculate here, since we threw the Ukraine a billion, and they dont even make Gyros and Baklava, that the IMF and Uncle sam will be part of the stick save deal.
I can say with certainty, that Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain will exit the EU the sooner the better. They are just not europeans in a sence understood by the term. Let them create their own union with arabs or africans
Zee word Europe iz Greek you retard...
you see a retard every morning in a mirror, dickhead
No I seez your schnitzelfaced mamas face and I dickslapz it
you pathetic sub-human, go back flipping the burgers in mcD
Afterz I go subhumanz on your azz too. Im gettin tired of your mama
yeah... what else can you come up with... RETARD
Here read you mongol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_%28mythology%29
take your handz out of your pantz
do you really think that modern greeks have anything in common with ancient greeks? Are you really THAT retarded? Maybe you also think that italians have anything common with romans? Crawl back to your cardboard house, moron
You are trying to dodge the bullet but you evidently cant due to a lack of active brain cells. I will waste some more time of my life to remind you that you said that PIIGS do not classify as Europeans by definition. Definition of what? The answer is a word. What is the word? European I presume. The roots of that word are Greek and actually the word its self is the same in ancient and modern Greek. So by definition what you are saying is stupid and you are a retard of epic proportions.
Charlz
ps. Your mama is asking when you will come join uz at our humble abode
ok... Europe as a word came from greeks... All you said leads you to being a shallow minded jerk :) I will not waste my time explaining what is european, I feel sorry for you, sincerely
Maybe the word you wanted to use was Eurozone or Eurolalaland or maybe you want to make up a word for yourself. This does not however make up for your lack of knowledge of the fundamentals of the topic. You shall go on to be below par in all your conversations and endeavours, I sincerely cannot imagine what they may be, but I wish you the best of luck. Youre gonna need it.
ps. Mommy sendz you a sloppy kizz
Nice try, troll, but it didnt work, as your shallow - yanki-mama joke :) Well, I guess you are very lucky sitting in ZH and trying to convince me about something you have no clue about. Bye bye, donkey
hey boys..calm down..you know as much about us as I know about cyber security....
But here you go as an answer to one of your rants....What do modern Greeks have in common with the ancient ones?
Only two things...
We use the same alphabet.
We wash our hands before we take a piss. As you barbarians wash them after, somehow believing that you are touching the dirtiest part of you. Its actually the best and holiest so you should not touch it with dirty hands.
Thanks for this piece of information. I will be carefull to shake hands next time I am in Greece :-)
And what is European exactly? To put up veneer of elegance and ethics... in between the fratricidal binges of warfare. Instead of learning lessons, Europeans hellbent on destroying themselves all over again.
If so then Greece could sue the rest of Europe over the word "Europe" since that is a Greek word.
Honestly, I do feel sorry for the Greeks, who have become the new Polish Joke of the 21st Century. But their current predicament reminds me of the recent Scottish referendum, where everyone carefully weighed the financial benefits of remaining in the Union or going it alone.
This is exactly what is happening in Greece today. People are looking at which course of action will benefit them personally the most, or perhaps harm them the least. The thought of someone being willing to say "Fuck you, I'll live as a free man in a cave rather than kneel down and accept a golden collar" is totally alien to the discussion at hand.
It also leads me to suspect that the major threat to any republic is the erection of a permanent bureaucracy that eventually acquires a divergent set of interests from that of the society at large. The old way of firing all the lackeys of the old Administration and bringing in a new set every four or eight years nows seems to be a much better system than I once believed it to be.
Term limits for all government employees.
A complete replacement of all educators, who have completely ruined us with their betrayal of the founding principles of the Republic.
Polish have become raped, occupied, split and used by at least 4 superpowers in the last 100 years.
Scottish are not even a Nation and have lost even their original language.
Greeks have existed one way or an other since the birth of time, we are still here setting the standards even through our demise.
Tell me your ethnicity and I will prove to you in zero time how you should wash your mouth with chlorine before you even say the word GREEK.
Challenge me.
24 hours ?
Read the rest -
http://amoteinbrusselseye.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/normal-0-false-false-fa...
When Merkel was young, she was hot.
Compared to what?
All this BS about no money flowing into Greece if there are no reform efforts; the money has been coming right from the moment the real Greek deficit was made known without any structural reform effort on the side of the Greeks, so why all the fuss?
Greece out of the euro is unimaginable to me, it goes against the real scenario behind the euro. They will think of sth.
Fuck the EU and all it stands for.
So Frauline, what are YOUR solutions? We know the Greeks are sponges, but what do you propose eh? You got nothing, neither do the Greek socialists!
Trolls are getting stupider. So stupid they don't even realize how stupid they appear. Kinda like their master mongo Obongo.
Either you are Greeks and it is your country, or you are Greeks and tenants of Draggys country.
Time to decide now
We have decided since January 25th 2015.
The question is when are you going to decide to stand up and fight rather then obey???
lol...honestly Mr Zerohedge...where do you get your news? Actually please dont tell me, I dont want to die.
Ms Merkel can tell all the above theory of yours, face to face to Mr Tsipras today at their meeting in Berlin.
Lets see!
Jack Burton is correct. The only possible endgame here is the privatisation of Greece - the country's new owners being their so-called EC partners (read German and French banks). Instead of debt service, they receive payments for all public utility and infrastructure use and rent for Greek use of it's own buildings (heritage and otherwise), ports, highways, etc. Its obvious they don't give a damn about the Greek people and, anyway, this has been a snowballing set-up for years now.
Its ludicrous to think that anyone in the EC, ECB or IMF imagines that Greece can now or ever will be capable of servicing its debt or even refinancing as needed. The Troika knows it has already overloaded the country with unserviceable debt. Looks like they are stuffing the goose for foie gras.
It's total asset sale or Grexit and repudiation. I'm hoping for the latter since its the only way Greece will retain its sovereignty. It is time Syriza had an honest dialogue with Greek citizens about this.
Don't be so quick to assume a contagion effect. When others (Spain, Portugal et al) see the near term pain of an exit, that will be that - austerity, deflation, recession and insolvency issues will be more creatively dealt with - attempts will be made by all parties. Germany probably believes the possibility of a Grexit has been sterilised within the EC by now and it can use this exit as a deterrent.
Idiocy abounds.