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Meet Andorra: Europe's Next Failed State
Nestling idyllically between France and Spain in the foothills of the Pyrenees, Andorra - which has enjoyed the benefits of European borders without the restrictions of EU membership - has seen its risk "increase beyond our expectations," according to S&P. As a reminder, when Cyprus was "templated" and depositors awoke with a 47% haircut, its total financial assets to GDP was around 8x, Andorra is now at a stunning 17x. As The Telegrpah explains, in the last three weeks, the state has been gripped by a banking crisis that threatens to take it to the brink; and Andorra, which is not a member of the eurozone but uses the single currency on an informal basis, would have no way of bailing them out (with no central bank or lender of last resort). In short, the country faces a catastrophe if its banks fall apart.
Andorra has for many years enjoyed the benefits of European borders without the restrictions of EU membership, allowing light-touch regulation that has brought in tourism and wealthy expats from its bordering countries. However, as The Telegraph reports, in the last three weeks, the state has been gripped by a banking crisis that threatens to take it to the brink.
Bankers have been thrown in jail, savers’ deposits have been restricted, and the country’s government is scrambling to convince powerful regulators thousands of miles away that the country is not a haven for tax evasion.
On Tuesday March 10, the US Treasury Department’s financial crime body, FinCEN, accused Banca Privada d’Andorra (BPA), the country’s fourth-largest bank, of money-laundering. The authority said “corrupt high–level managers and weak anti–money-laundering controls have made BPA an easy vehicle for third–party money-launderers”.
Three senior managers at the bank accepted bribes to help criminals in Russia, Venezuela and China, to funnel money through the Andorran system, according to FinCEN.
The next day, the state took charge of BPA, dismissing three directors. On the Friday, the bank’s chief executive, Joan Pau Miquel, was arrested and detained. Mr Miquel remains in a jail cell in La Comella, the country’s only prison, with a capacity of 145.
At BPA, the Andorran authorities have installed new management. After international banks cut off links, withdrawals were capped at €2,500 (£1,830) a week, a limit many people are maxing out.
Banco Madrid, the Spanish subsidiary of BPA acquired as part of an expansion spree in recent years, filed for administration on Wednesday.
The Andorran government insists that BPA is an isolated case, saying it is committed to transparency and that the rest of the sector is clean. For its sake, it had better be right, but many experts fear this is not the case.
* * *
This is a major problem... When Cyprus was "templated" its banks assets were only 8 times bigger than the economy and Iceland's troubles hit at 10x...
Andorra’s banks have assets under management 17 times bigger than the economy, and the sector accounts for a fifth of GDP...
Which means, were its banks to get into trouble, Andorra, which is not a member of the eurozone but uses the single currency on an informal basis, would have no way of bailing them out.
The crisis is a classic example of how countries seeking to welcome financial services by promising a hands-off approach to regulation, can become dangerously vulnerable to them.
Andorra’s exposures to its banks provoke echoes of Iceland and Cyprus – both of which suffered painful economic crises when their lenders fell into trouble. But unlike Cyprus, which received a last-minute bail-out, Andorra has no central bank to act as a lender of last resort: if its banks go under, it goes under.
A single bank is one thing, but contagion would be an altogether different beast. A collapse of the entire banking system would spell disaster, especially after the hubristic expansion of recent years.
The crisis has now led Standard & Poor’s, one of the three major ratings agencies, to downgrade the value of the principality’s sovereign debt.
“The risk profile of Andorra’s financial sector, which is large relative to the size of the domestic economy, has increased beyond our expectations,” S&P said two weeks ago.
“The absence of a central bank or a lender of last resort in the Andorran financial system exacerbates the risks, in our opinion.” S&P said
* * *
The Telegraph sums it up perfectly - In short, the country faces a catastrophe if its banks fall apart.
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The Mouse That Roared?
~"Bankers have been thrown in jail, savers’ deposits have been restricted, and the country’s government is scrambling to convince powerful regulators thousands of miles away that the country is not a haven for tax evasion."~
Coming to a continent near you...
jailed bankers and no central bank? something's seriously wrong with that country. quick, somebody, call the rothschilds
Andorra is not a state actually. It´s about time anyway those anachronistic entities like Andorra, Monaco, San Marino are incorporated into the next real state.
Since neither Spain nor France qualify as real, those wide spots in the road are going to have to wait a while longer. As for Liechetenstein, well, now that's another matter! LOL.
Used to go there to stockup on duty-free Cuban cigars. Oh, and booze. Kinda like an American Indian reservation for Euros. Some of the best tasting water on the planet. Love Andorra.
Don't worry. Like Andorra is not part of the EU, Ukraine is not part of NATO, so means that US will take care of the problem in exchange for bases or something inane.
Lizard-skin Lady (IMF) will bail them out.
bustout?
So, now you are getting downvoted here on Zerohedge big time if you want to get rid of those tax heavens and loopholes like Andorra were the 1% oligarchs are able to avoid taxes and hide and launder their wealth. Shows you how brainfucked many of the Zerohedge crowd really are.
I am Andorran and I felt the need to tell the writter that Andorra is a transparent country where we do not tolerate malpractice by 2 bankers who are now in jail. The government is acting properly to convince the intl. community that our direction is transparent.
We are signing agreements with EU, DTCs (Double Taxation Conventions) with nabouring countries, have our own tax system (income, vat, corporate...) and welcome you all to come and discover for yourself:
-A country that is safe.
-A country with a remarcable health system.
-A country with 3 free educational systems: Andorran, Spanish and French.
-A country with political stability.
-A country that is opening it's economy to foreign investment and by doing so, offering opportunities.
-A country with excellent people/culture and mediterranean cuisine.
-A country that is only 2h away from Barcelona.
-A country surrounded by nature (health and wellness).
-A country with an advantageous taxing system.
-A country that welcomes you to come and see for yourself.
I hope the athor can come and visit someday and then write another article with what he personaly thinks ;)
All the best,
Niki
Bankers thrown in jail, what in the actual FUCK?! Can that happen?? Anyone seen Corzine?!
off topic, I think i could locate someone in a matter of weeks using publicly available information (ie, Jon Corzine), why hasn't any terminally ill veteran hunted down and murdered some of these bankster fucks? Unintended Consequences style....
Corzine was last seen sitting on a beach, earning twenty percent.
The Hamptons on Memorial Day weekend would be where to find many, many guilty parties.
Puerto Banús in Marbella is the capital of ill-gotten loot.
https://www.google.com/search?q=puerto+banus&rlz=1C1CHWA_enUS627US628&es...
I'm sure Corzine has paid armed security with him at all times.
Just like Mayor Bloomturd, remember?...
He had his guns in NYC, but the average Joe could not.
No wonder all the rich fucks are for gun control.
Only 145 Cells?? They're gonna need a bigger prison(s)!
Andorra could no be bailed out (with no central bank or lender of last resort). In short, the country faces a catastrophe if its banks fall apart.
That couldn't happen here in the US. There's got to be someone to bail US out, right? Right??? RIGHT!!!?
If Andorra's banking mess looks like toppling an important domino, they'll likely get a bail out.
I am Andorran and I felt the need to tell the writter that Andorra is a transparent country where we do not tolerate malpractice by 2 bankers who are now in jail. The government is acting properly to convince the intl. community that our direction is transparent.
We are signing agreements with EU, DTCs (Double Taxation Conventions) with nabouring countries, have our own tax system (income, vat, corporate...) and welcome you all to come and discover for yourself:
-A country that is safe.
-A country with a remarcable health system.
-A country with 3 free educational systems: Andorran, Spanish and French.
-A country with political stability.
-A country that is opening it's economy to foreign investment and by doing so, offering opportunities.
-A country with excellent people/culture and mediterranean cuisine.
-A country that is only 2h away from Barcelona.
-A country surrounded by nature (health and wellness).
-A country with an advantageous taxing system.
-A country that welcomes you to come and see for yourself.
I hope the athor can come and visit someday and then write another article with what he personaly thinks ;)
All the best,
Niki
The US Treasury Depts. Financial Crime Body"----yep, it sure is. All that happened, people is they got attacked by the Main Mafia; The USA's Empire is Us -Worldwide everything authority"; where everyone is guilty of not paying us enough, until we say they're not. It's not their fault; they didn't do anything weird. This is the underlying theme for the next 5 years; as the .Gov. gets more and more desperate; it's going to turn out that everthing belongs to them; period. Hedge Accordingly.
Don't worry the stick save is coming from those who created it.
"we don't need no stinkin real banks, so we shall run them out of biz and take over what's left."
Every where those Nazi hideout shit happens.
Fredonia !!!!
(declares war on USA, immediately surrenders, and then lives off the massive rebuilding aid)
I always knew the next worldwide financial system collapse was going to start in Andorra.
They need to start pumping out more of those expensive sweaters.
Yeah, and some hats too.
The Butterfly Effect may very well happen.
couldn't this be caused by austrian HETA?
Nice soft spiderman towels anyone ?
Tough crowd, looks like someone doesn't appreciate luxurious wool.
Only cheap wool is needed to be pulled over your eyes.
Personally I'm heartbroken. Andorra was the ideal place to go according to the "International Man" crowd due to its European setting, lax currency controls and lovely scenery. And yet in the back of my mind is Joliette Jake, napkin tucked into the top of his shirt, leaning over and asking...
https://youtu.be/GDXYzUlv0S8
Funny, I don't recall Simon Black mentioning the place.
Simon did a multi-page special report on Andorra (with very nice photos) not long ago, in which he managed to praise the banking system. So, either this BPA is just one bad apple, or Simon's praise should be taken with a grain of salt, or maybe a shaker full. He also suggested a bank in Ecuador which subsequntly collapsed. But his Mongolian picks are spot-on, so far.
That's one of the countries on my list if I ever decide to bug out from America, beautiful country, great people and apparently the standard corrupt banking system.....
Don't believe you!
It IS at the beginning of the alphabet...
Do they know any bankers or financiers? Looks like a pretty nice place in so much as Aspen or Deer Valley could become a "failed state"...
"Bankers have been thrown in jail, savers’ deposits have been restricted, and the country’s government is scrambling to convince powerful regulators thousands of miles away that the country is not a haven for tax evasion."
-Bankers jailed
-Depositors screwed
-Gov looking to convince regulators ie bankers that they collect taxes from people. Why? so they can borrow moar money?
Something isn't adding up.
Shame on you!!! Applying logic to the situation.... :-)
Logic tells me their Government is broke, they found some scapegoat banker to take the blame off of them, they are preparing to plunder their plebs savings, while at the same time going back to other bankers trying to convince them that they will indeed get tuff on collecting taxes, so they can borrow moar money to keep their gov from going bankrupt just a little longer.
There you go... All the while, the truly guilty parties are living the good life in those houses on the hillside "above" the town.
Start putting the heads of the "bankers of record" on fucking pikes and you might see some change...
The change will be having to live within your own countries GDP and not being able to borrow from the future to pay for todays pensions and civil servants. It's gonna suck for those expecting gov to help them.
Don't know if you can translate this to Andorra. This principality does have 80k inhabitants and 40k citizens with a GDP of less then $1 bn (Debt 30% of GDP). Andory is a tax haven and most of the money belongs to dubious sources.
Yep, let me be clear; fuck em.
Harbanger
This will be one of their next tricks to kick the can.
"re-amortization'' of pension-debts that would, in effect, stretch the payments out over a longer period of time.
(AT MUCH HIGHER COST)
http://www.providencejournal.com/article/20150325/NEWS/150329519/0/SEARCH
Governments are always broke,its just some are better at hiding it. The money came from somewhere and went somewhere...where that somewhere is has deep pockets and the ability to hide.....
Not all governments are broke, just most western govs.
Can you name one that isn't?
China. That's why it can afford to lend to all the broke nations.
ALL governments are broke, until they steal the assets of the productive citizens.
They work by stealing first then, giving back just enough to keep the people from getting pissed off enough to rebel.
Show me those "bankers in jail"...
Call me skeptical....
Yes they are. Barney Fife has them in protective custody.
And yet I still see a large crane in the picture. .. infinite growth on a finitevplanet !!!!
Greece is the new Lehman and Andorra is the new Madoff?
One by one, the failed socialist states of the World are falling. They will never reform their spending until they are forced to.
As a Sovereign Man member, I am becoming increasingly troubled at the list of countries that Simon Black had endorsed for their libertarian politics and banking practices, but which have since fallen on "tough times".
As a matter of record, he had endorsed Andorra (something I had considered but did not act on). He has also endorsed the Baltic states and Ukraine. Then there's the gem of endorsing gold storage in Singapore, only to have some Korean guy busted by the Singapore govt, for trying to bring in too much gold.
"Call a place paradise, and you can kiss it good-bye" comes to mind, as it attracts too much riff raff and then the attention of the US.gov. Looks like the best/safest place to bank is where US Senators and Congressman bank offshore: Cayman Islands.
It may be that the specific banks that Simon endorsed are healthy and robust (since a smart, savvy and rich guy like him wouldn't fall for a BS bank), but is sure puts a damper on future investments -- which may the very INTENT that the US Gov is trying to achieve in this version of Banking PsyOps: The CB of all countries want their sheep getting spooked, so they will keep or bring the funds "back home". Where it can be monitored, taxed or confiscated.
p.s.
Personally I'm staying ahead of the global trend of "Bankers off Trampolines", by keeping the cash and PM as "Phyz in safe places" (not just at home). If I snuff it, my lawyer will give a sealed envelope to my kids (with info, specific instructions and admonitions/advice inside, and additional info, links and videos on an encrypted memory stick). So, fuck you "Parasites R US"!
These paradises become shitholes when US and EU want them to turn to shitholes. I wouldn't take a bet on Cayman either. One point in time there might be the political will to let it bust and that's when politicians are desperate enough to kick some oligarchs in the butt.
The only reason tax havens survive is because it gives those stealing from the populace somewhere to hide their ill-gotten gains.
No they don't and they just keep the money in the US. Irony of the the US going after so many places for money laundering and yet the US is one of the biggest money launders in the world (if not the biggest).
There is a cottage industry thriving in Wilmington, DE, that deals just with this issue given the huge finance/insurance presence there along with large rate of incorporations. I have heard it is the same in Nevada although I don't follow that nearly as closely.
Kirk , you trust a lawyer over your kids ? Seriously why not give your kids the info now ? None of my biz I guess but I never understand what kind of relationship people have with their own children that they dont seem to trust them. A tight family is the ultimate enemy of the state
Both my kids know what I have and know that I want them to split it 50/50 when I go.
I have a good relationship with both.
They have a good relationship going between themselves.
If they go with 50/50 they will both get something (not a lot!)
If they involve lawyers, the lawyers will likely get most of it.
I know they realise this.
Sovereign Man, Sovereign Society, blah blah blah... All work on the same play list and they all pimp the same vendors. You too can be one of the vendors they pimp for the right price.
Whether it be banks in Andorra, a specific shithole bank in Austria, offbrand banks in Switzerland, etc. Money managers that lose money every year... Shyster lawyers that will do whatever they can to fuck you...
Stay away from them all. They talk their book and their book will lose you money.
Wait... what... bankers went to jail? That's not how it works.
They don't even have a way of bailing out their banks. Can you imagine? What a bunch of noobs.
You see that really cool hotel or whatever it is in the picture? I figure I'll be buying that in a few weeks for like $1,200.
I've got an HP I can sell them.
A mere 100ozt of ASE's
http://www.idealista.com/en/venta-viviendas/andorra-provincia/
Thatt's what happens to real bankers. It is the plan of the CB's to rule by corrupt cronization.
An offer you can't refuse. Do you honestly think the MOB was the original?
FUckin hell no.
the rulers of andor
give in
donte fight it already
suck cum
not to borg
but rabbi
you must become refugee in swede and london
the tora bora and the talmmo states these lands
are for the chosenun.
go now before city of london and tel aviv sends in the kosher isis hordes
Bankers corrupt?
Unpossible!
"Mr Miquel remains in a jail cell in La Comella, the country’s only prison, with a capacity of 145."
Space for another 144 bankers. Nominations ?
Do a bail in and buy a printing press.
I have been there, beautiful place.
Everyone was there buying duty free stuff.
Me too. There are more luxury cars then inhabitans I thought then.
The first thing that came to mind was who are BPA's counterparties and to whom is BPA a counterparty?
tsk,tsk, now if they would've based their currency on precious metals.
I mean really? Does anyone care about a tax haven banking system failure other than a few New York and London real estate agents, and a few good people at HSBC, and Um Jamie dimon and um......
HSBC could give lessons on money laundering.
Born out of the Opium Wars and still profiting from drug money.
Banking shall never again be allowed to be (mis)managed by humans.
Perfect for that yearly Bilderberger meetup!!!!
Perfect for that yearly Bilderberger meetup!!!!
failed? no - just getting started on their big move up - in the USA after the banks failed in 2008, stocks and bonds went on a fabulous run !
The only danger to Andorra is if they try to pull an Ireland instead of an Iceland.
If they stop(ped) capital flight fast enough there will be more than enough capital to pay deposit guarantuees. Just like Iceland they will be able to prioritize domestic depositors (Iceland won their court case about that) and their economy will do just fine.
A lot of people with more than 100K in deposits will get taken to the cleaners of course, just like in Iceland and in Cyprus ... cry me a fucking river.
Sodom and Andorra... ?
Is there a single nation on planet earth where they can run banks successfully?
USA runs banks really successfully ..... for the banksters.
You have to be more careful defining your terms.
Ahhh! memories of Bewitched....Trouble starts when Andorra shows up!
Endora's style could never be equalled. I used it to raise my children.
......
Meanwhile at the HSBC ......... _____________________________________-
I do not believe, that banks shouldn't go bankrupt.
Since 2007 more, than 1500 went bankrupt in USA.
and precisely how many of the individual "arsonists that burned down the financial system and profitted from it" actually went bankrupt or to prison?!?!
Do you not see how irrelevant it is if the corporation goes under but the owners and management get to keep their wealth?
tick tock motherfucker....
I was fortunate to have two parents who were thinkers.
When I was about 14 years old, my dad made a comment that nailed it.
'Trans-national corporations will be the end of humanity if people don't stop them'
That was 1969.
All of the offshore havens have all imploded or are imploding:
Cyprus.
Andorra.
East Caribbean.
Switzerland (US DOJ, France, UK, Germany, FATCA, etc.)
This leaves...
Singapore
Bullshit. My cayman island account is intact.
obviously the attempt is to dry up the Russian funding
none of the CIA funds will be touched, not to worry whereever they're hiding
real funding sits in offshore accounts and the USSA is confiscating every other fund globally
Have been moving to more physical assets, slowly... Now that I see some really big dogs going after each other I know shit might start getting interesting soon. I am not a big dog by any stretch, but know quite a few "in the club" (the real owners club), when these fuckers start going after each other there will be collateral damage... ...again, same as it ever was...
I was not aware Cayman is in the East Caribbean.
How long is it going to stay intact?
tick tock motherfucker (wanted to use this at least once)
no shit sherlock... ...on a long enough timeline, but then again, many families have kept their wealth and power for generations...
be exceptional, don't settle for anything less and teach your children well.
For how long?
Will you be able to access the contents when TSHTF?
Important questions to consider.
As long as all the locals get out in time, then it'll just be some Russians footing the bill. Bank fails, start a new bank.
soon in usa
sounds like bullying to me...obviously a suspect problematic client list. no golldman bagboys on it. a tax haven is only a place that has not given into international FED fraud nor submitted to their illegal cross border extortion.
Waiting for F Corleone to get come in on the (encripted) land line, "let me make you an offer you can't refuse". Salvation would be for France and Spain to each go full confiscation-socialist (but I stutter), and Andorra act at least a Macao or Hong Kong.
Bankster-robber-baron government seems to have no nationality, or limits.
(dup)
The Andorran Banks are flush and solvent, so the article is misleading. This is about US bullying and nothing esle. They do not want serious competition for the New York and London based laundromats. The FED goons are trying to spark a bank run. At some point, probably sooner than many expect the relevence of the USD$ will be diminished. The US military burns 350,000 bl of oil per day. What happens when USD$ is no longer accepted for oil? Dead in the water. Of course they are trying to provoke a global war before that happens. Even traditional western alliance partners are lining up to join the Chinese version of the world bank. If you have been collecting federal reserve notes to tabulate your wealth, you may end up with nothing but your pecker in your hand. Caveat Emptor.
Meanwhile, if U have any FRNs prreferably in the $100 units, I'll be happy to take all of them.
Call me indeniable.
Part of the financial war on Russia.
Another sovereign nation being thrown under the bus to insure that the tax donkeys of the Western world have no alternatives to the financial status quo... (bonus in that there is quite a bit of Russian expat money there, too). It wasn't enough for them to reform their (very private) notario system or for them to install an income tax. No, let's go and wreck their independent banks as well.
Hang on, it was *trying* to bail out its banks that did for Ireland, and half-bailing them and half pissing off the UK and the EU that did for Iceland. So if Andorra has no way of bailing out its banks ... it's going to be OK.
>> In short, the country faces a catastrophe if its banks fall apart. << What do you mean, catastrophe? It will be a blessing in disguise. Back to sheep herding and cigarillo smuggling like in the old days.
Did you know Andorra has two princes, one a Spanish bishop, the other, wait for it..., France's president, Hollande :D
First we had the "PIGS", and now with Andorra it's "PIGS A" ... now all we need is Slovenia and Slovakia to go down the tubes and we'll have the "PIGS ASS" we all know the EU to be.
So a bunch of expats and non-residents get toasted, but not the locals. How is it a crisis?
Again this isn't about the going after Western banking money launderng. It is about chasing others and closing another door to systems outside of the Western orbit. They won't go after a place like the Isle of Man or Bermuda because those are in the orbit and used by the Western banks/corporations/high net worth individuals to do their dirty deeds.
The one question mark to me is Panama. A lot of Venezuelan money has gone through there and increasingly the Chinese have a big presence there.
We invaded Panama in '89 because Noreiga got too big for his britches. He tried to interfere with narco CIA-funds and slush money that the CIA had used for all kinds of fund & mayhem in the 80s in South America along with causing a ruckus to a still vital US national interst - Panama Canal. Instead of being happy to be the token dictator of a banana republic and live quietly, he outlived his useful & the US 'invaded' Panama.
The place doesn't even have a US military base. Andorra is an idyllic country.
Three senior managers at the bank accepted bribes to help criminals in Russia, Venezuela and China, to funnel money through the Andorran system, according to FinCEN.
Hey they missed out Iran, North Korea & Syria from the "criminals list"... everyone knows that a country without a Rothchild dominated Central bank is a corrupt criminal haven that needs to be PUNISHED
Thinking exactly the same thing as I read it.....
Years ago I took a bus from Barcelona to Andorra La Vella, and skied for a few days. Partying at a hostel with some Argentinians who worked at the resort. What a great time. I was only 21. In Europe as a student. It was here I met my first discouraged American expat. He ran a ski rental shop. Said he'd been there for something like 15 years and never wanted to go back to USA. I'll never forget. Like I'd just been given my first red pill. Having grown up in blue collar 1970s America, this was a very new perspective that really made me think. Of course, since then I've met too many like him to count. I hope he is well.
It's a beautiful country.
Great food too.
here's a template the EU banksters should get used to:
the good stuff will only be sold in exchange for real currency
prices in Euro are purely "informal" in the sense that they're entertaining the uninformed...
you have been informed
Everyone on ZH should read Ellen Brown's, The Public Bank Solution. It is a revelation. No country needs any private banks because they can print their own currency and lend it at low interest rates to its population. Relying on private banks for lending is game for fools.
Not good enough Atticus Finch
For instance our trade deficit is about 500 Billion.
Interest on our debt is 420 billion and climbing.
Ellen Brown's proposal falls short, we should create money at 0 interest, especially in light of the coming long term deflation due to malinvestment, overcapacity, and demographic change.
And that's just a start.
Lot's of problems to tackle.
How does she propose to get the Jews, who control all the important financial nexus in the world, to let that happen???
I like this place, at war with germany 1918-1958. Everyone has to keep a rifle at home to defend the country.
all silence on the
jersey and the isle of man and guernsey masonic front
ultimate safety for queen and child rape rothschild cuntry
Note the last statement in the article from S&P.
"The absence of a central bank...exacerbates the risk..." Trying to convince the masses that a central bank is a good thing, maybe even a necessity.
Talk about setting up the country for a takeover by the global Elite!
Backwards. This would be good if they respond simply and honestly. Let all the banks fail. Lock up all the banksters, grab all their private wealth, pass it out to savings and checking account holders, and sell the buildings at auction.
Let people buy and sell with any fiat, fake, fraud, fiction, fantasy "currency" they wish, but make "grams of gold" (with no paper forms) the "official currency" (how prices are set, and how people trade when both sides agree upon gold rather than fiat).
This would show the rest of the world how harmful "banking systems" are. If Andorra took these simple actions, their economy would blast through the roof within a year, and make the rest of the eurozone look like zombies, Germany included.
The world needs some example, somewhere. Andorra would be as good as anywhere else.