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Greek Fears, Weak Data Send Gold Surging Over $1200
A combination of Greek default fears rising (safety reach) and considerably weaker than expected data (moar easing) has sparked a $20 surge in gold prices this morning, back above $1200...
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Noo!!! Turn those machines back on!
No, end of the month/quarter is behind us
Precisely.
omg omg gold surge over 1200 ...it was at...? 1984....? and the 30/03/2015 it was at....?.....1996.... oh....i see....
call me when it goes below 500 or above 1500, meanwhile, fuck you.
Will do. Meantime, be sure to comment only when it goes below 500 or above 1500.
It only works if you have been lobotombized, or consuming GMO's, or Aerosolized atmosphere with chemicals and adjutants.
Other than that, use your brain and grab physical.
Greece is fucked, buy gold before the rest of the worlds fiat currencies are fucked as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tta1K_is0ag
"Greece is fucked, buy gold before the rest of the worlds fiat currencies are fucked as well."
I'm with you Burt...stack while you still can...
Who/what will start the transition from fiat currency to accepting gold/silver as payment?
Any depreciation looking like hyperinflation, or
any big nation deciding gold is better than US dollars for all their partners, then it's done
And with 93 million dropped out of the workforce, a smaller economy will halp kickstart the move, as well. As unstable and speculative as they are, the cryptocurrencies will probably play a part, as well. However, they will evolve to the point that they either get totally redefined or flop to the point they are nothing more than loyalty rewards or coupons.
Mark to market was removed in late 2007 and the markets don't matter, paper or physical. Value doesn't mean anything because that's the result of the removal of mark to market. It means that only the banks and their investment arms may dictate the price of anything because you are trading your real capital for their 'printed' fiat on their terms. Only way you'll ever get anything out of your investments into PM's is one way.
The only way to 'win' is not to play and let it break by non-participation.
The casino makes the rules, tells you what games you play and even sets the odds. Unless you own the casino, you don't win. No matter how lucky someone believes they are. The rules change on behalf of the casino owners, not the players to ensure that regardless of the assets a person makes in the casino. All those assets will eventually be reclaimed by the casino. Gold, houses, silver, t-bills, retirement savings, fiat (the casino's chips)...all of it eventually gets reclaimed by the casino.
BTW, why is gold and silver valuable? Mainly because someone told you it was.
Next question people should ask themselves while looking at all the stuff they've got that will eventually be reclaimed by the casino. Who told you it's valuable?
Gold has value because it is an eternal, rare, infinitely divisible, and portable standard unit of account used and accepted globally. Without a unit of account, global trade stops. When all the other units of account turn to be fraud, you are left one way to continue global trade. The history of trade between borders is the history of gold and silver as money and units of account. All other units of account that attempt to replace gold are nothing but pretense to gold and always end up as not accepted in trade.
trade does not need any unit of account - one can barter
economy is primary, money is secondary
Barter of commodities is immature trade. You need a unit of account in anything resembling a modern economy or global trade.
Perhaps, but then again, there is no moetary, economic, or political solution to resources scarcity, period.
The modern economy requires a serious input of energy in order to simply maintain the status quo, never mind "grow". Once those consumable calories are no longer available your modern economy dies, period.
I need food, clothing and shelter. I don't need a modern economy or global trade.
Good luck getting 7+ billion (most of which have no tradable skills) to successfully barter. I do appreciate the spirit of your post and ultimately all the useless paper-pushers, who got us here, need to all be executed, but it is what it is.
No, they are one and the same. Trade of a common unit of account keeps long-term trade flowing as long-term planning, inventory and trust of future trade is all required.
Even for barter this is the case which is why silver & gold weights make good for barter. Hence money.
Well at 1200 an ounce it doesn't begin to cover the tab for the 1.7 Quadrillion dollars of US derivatives black sheets (remember: debt never goes away, public or private) it just gets repackaged into junk. All that debt that's been accumulating for 120 years. Never mind the TINY, minuscule, irrelevant government debts. They don't hold a candle to the amount of paper that the banks and the markets hold in the dark market of pink sheets/loans/assets off and on ledgers. Government debts are a trickle of piss in an ocean of debt in comparison.
Gold at this point should be valued at around 18 million an ounce. Silver should be coming in at around 920,000 an ounce. This just doing a valuation based not on M2, but the comparative value of every penny of debt out there (around 3.4 Quadrillion dollars in derivatives worldwide) in relation to the available gold and silver that's available. Since no one here makes the rules or follows them, today literally ANYTHING no matter how worthless can be leveraged as equity. Even derivative junk debt. Given the news on delivery shortfalls and mine collapses, I'd say even a gold and silver holder is standing on quicksand against basic market valuation fundamentals and the situation here at the moment.
What's the situation?
You will all be TOLD the price of gold and silver, you'll never be able to ask what it's worth. If it seems unfair, well...Too bad, that's how this all works. You don't get a say. You just get to be a free decentralized safety deposit box and eventually something will happen then you'll have to let go of the metal for a handful of fiat. The system will just keep printing and keep telling you what the metal is worth because the plan developed by the house of Rothschild was a century of 'honest' theft. You will give it up freely of your own free will because the system will eventually choke it out of you regardless how much you believe it's got value. As long as you keep holding it, the 'central banks' will continue to fuck with you all around the world because that's how this is all built. How to fix this situation? Let this all go full Zimbabwe retard with thieves and dirtbags running it to allow it to end the way it's built to.
BTW the other thing on 'valuation' and collapsing currency regimes. After it does go full Zimbabwe retard in the western world, Russia and China eventually the shell game being played breaks the system. HOWEVER: The value of PM's (gold and silver) by optics will be the last price given.
Right now, an ounce of gold is worth an air conditioning unit and an ounce of silver is worth two and a half pounds of ground beef. That will be the last known comparative value on the market without central price dictation.
Now just imagine the poor fucker holding 2000 round ounces of gold when fiat does eventually shit the bed. Best they can every hope for in terms of trade is 2000 air conditioners.
Again, everyone is TOLD what the metal is worth. They don't get to dictate any terms on price on anything. Everyone gave up that privilege as soon as they let the central banks in the door. They may beg or lobby, but the system as it's built is built to do one thing only. Take everything you've got to put it all under the central banks and I'd say by optics they've won. Eventually they'll have every fleck of PM's everyone here thinks they've got stashed away at the cost of countries, savings and everyone's piece of mind. They simply do not give a fuck.
Wrong. FASB 157 was suspended on April 2nd, 2008.
And you don't appear to know much about the history of gold and silver either, or why they have intrinsic value.
Right now an ounce of gold by optics is worth an air conditioner.
Right now an ounce of silver by optics is 2.5 lbs of ground beef.
That's it's value because you are told the value. It is worth nothing more, nothing less regardless of the history of it because that's the plan. Believe me no one cares what you believe it's worth, mainly because no one knows what it's worth any more. The above two examples are what those PM's are actually worth if you needed to use them today...because you are told what they are worth and that's what the market says they are worth.
And the mark to market removal had to start on the floor in Congress with the pen stroke of a president under the original TARP arrangements in 2007 to avoid the derivatives market from imploding because Freddy Mac and Fanny Mae 'put it all on red'. 'It' started in 2007, the formal FAB B allowed retroactive pricing to the top of the market for the cost of all goods. Not just homes. Cars. Truck. Trailers...everything was allowed to be reclassified to full retail value which opened the door to allow GM to claim TARP allowances as a 'Bank'. While everyone else would be unable to revalue their 1988 civic to full retail value (why? because it's insane.), every bank on the planet can though because they are all part of the same fiat distributor network (central banks).
This is the history and the rationale. The side benefit of the removal was a near exclusive ability of the banks to price any asset to any price with any amount of leverage. In terms of gold and silver. The Direxions ETF's could leverage a single ounce of gold 10000 times to trade x3's with unlimited reverse splits all based around the Mark to Market Removal by FAS B. Again though, it started in 2007 with the emergency session where congress printed a billion dollars out of thin air then gave license to the central banks to do what they wished.
The distinction I was trying to make is that the stock market was in full meltdown until March/April 2009 when the FASB 157 was suspended (April 2nd, 2009). Whatever happened in 2008 wasn't working at all, and that's a simple fact. Gold and silver started climbing well before stocks did (in 2008) and rose until May 2011 when massive manipulation/intervention/and fraud entered into the PM sector in earnest. That also is a proven fact. Price discovery went out the window then, and hasn't returned seven years later.
Don't sweat it kitten.
It started 2007 (tarp 1). Full meltdown occured late 2008 (tarp 1.5, aka just keep printing), 2009 was the dead cat bounce (tarp 2). I was there trading that slop with everyone else gasping and banging shoes on the table as well. FAS B final ruling was 2008 with the 2007 political signing done by Bush and his shit heel jew boy friends in the central banks. That's the history and we were all through it with every other bubble pop from the 80's until today. I've personally watched and had three decades of pink slips. However the financial shell game though is just the side show.
PM's really are just an indicator, assuming that they are anything else is dumb. PM's tell the world how a rich man is backing their hedge. By the price action there are no rich men on earth, nor strength. At 1200 for an ounce of gold and 15 dollars for an ounce of silver tells me there is no strength or brains. Not to overlook the fact everyone's broke no matter how 'rich' they are. The derivatives market underlines that statement in bold red ink. Even the richest people walking on earth aren't worth a damn thing relative to the total debts they've racked up.
Anycase...For the PM's, not before silver hit 5 bucks an ounce of silver and 500-600 per ounce of gold. And that is right after what? TARP 1 and 2. The fact is the hedge-worthliness of either asset is worth sweet fuck all. Neither asset has done that well relative to the speed money can be printed from thin air and by interest running in rates ranging from .5% to 23% in the background. The interest btw is also "printing money" from thin air, again, debt never goes away. See at this point it doesn't matter what any of them do or fix the interest rate at. It's all fictitious, in ten more years that 3.4 quadrillion dollars will be closer to 7.
The sheer scale and size of the amounts in total debts sitting in the dark markets would buy and sell the entire earth 8000 times. Literally they could sell every last asset on earth and not be able to cover the interest...including all the PM assets and the people holding them. Again, I will see the Soro's, Buffets and Gates of the world eating cat food from a can with a stick in a ditch before I see a real valuation of gold or silver in order to match the value of the debt it should be backing. Instead people put on their drool bibs, safety helmets and pretend like the PMs magically fix the problem of the toliet paper called fiat according to M2. The M2, money supply, isn't the issue.
The gross total derivative debt of 3.4 Quadrillion dollars is the issue. Which will eventually be 7 Quadrillion dollars. My bet is Gold and Silver will still be claimed as 'under-rated' and 'under-valued', when the reality is they aren't worth anything relative to what they are supposed to be covering the debts for. Because that's the entire point of currency and capital. To cover costs and debts. Debts before costs right now the pay back period is around 150 million years, plus or minus infinity. lol
Now explain to me the value of PM's again in this situation?
There will always be a mecahnism of exchange whether its food, bullets, gold or whatever. The fact is gold and silver have the best and longest track record so unless we are down to ammo and canned goods gold and silver are the best bet long term. For right now with the Chinese investment bank a roaring success and they are anxious to screw the dollar everyone should be loading up on gold and silver because thats what China, India and Russia are doing. Notice we have no allies as they all just joined the new China World Investment Bank. So much for Obama's "tilt to Asia" clearly the most incompetent President of all time.
CPL, "casino's" doesnt rule the world, thank you china and russia for that. casino games are transitory. what is happening now will and cannot last for very much longer.
what asset class has been suppresed despite the run-up in most assets?
if something is being "subsidized" by price suppresion, then you are given an opprotunity to buy low. take advantage of that.
dont let this "dollar strength" cloud your vision.
"BTW, why is gold and silver valuable? Mainly because someone told you it was"
um, no, This is a physically verifiable fact based on chemistry, mass, malleability, etc. I have gold crowns & silver is both an antibiotic & a useful conductive metal.
it's not even gold, it's not even the paper, it's the illusion of it... so Gold fiction is at 1200... cool fiction...
And "surging" is not the word to use, unless you're running a financial tabloid.
Expectation of another take down very soon, but who cares this price ONLY applies to paper not physical.
paper gold has been irrelevant for a long time now. Physical collateral will be very important in time...
but the pink ones are good collateral for the blue ones, right?
So why is cynicism the first emotion felt?
Recent history and the curse of the ZH post (gold monkey hammered after a post like this or stawk stick save after a post about indexes taking a hit) .
Meh, gold priced in FRNs means nothing beyond the fact it costs more to buy insurance
Honestly, who is surprised at this point? Markets should consider adding sounds from the Price is Right show, that would at least make it more interesting for the viewers.
This is what I think of with "markets" and "muppets":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHv5jgXz9I8
crude inventory build "only" 4.8 million barrels past week
http://ir.eia.gov/wpsr/wpsrsummary.pdf
Gold red by end of the week. Silver up fraction of percent. Weight of the phys by end of week?. Same as it's been for 5,000 years.
I was siting behind that 04:00 candle :)
Well an anti-gold bug has thrown in the towel here. Denninger is packing it in. Will he be missed. You decide.
The Ticker Ceases PublicationI've been writing this column for eight years; the first columns in the archives are from 4-1-2007.
For eight years I have chronicled the abuses in our nation's economic and political systems, tying most of them to economic concerns of one sort or another. It began on Blogger and drove a fairly major software development effort on my part to put together the software currently in use here today -- a package that is capable of much more than it does at present.
I began this journey as a sort of private debt repayment, if you will, to people who I knew that got seriously harmed in the 2000 tech wreck. I escaped as I saw it coming, but whether that was really all skill or there was a huge element of either luck or divine intervention I'll never know; there were certainly personal issues in my life that were partly responsible for my decision to divest MCSNet in 1998.
I've heard many people over those years tell me that I'm not only inflexible but I also never admit I'm wrong. Those of you in that camp couldn't be more mistaken. Who remembers my rather long 2007 missives in which I expected very heavy inflation and dollar devaluation, accompanied with an energy cost spike that would literally destroy the economy? I, like many others, wasn't looking at the whole picture; I had bought hook, line and sinker into some of the econometric models put forward by so-called professors and their claims, believing without demanding evidence and proof rooted in fundamental algebra that they were providing an honest and accurate assessment.
I was wrong, and those who have followed me know that when the evidence changed -- that is, when the predictions that those models made failed to yield the results that should have occurred I went back and look at what I had been sold and found the errors -- and corrected them.
This is what we all ought to be doing, but damn few actually do. Essentially nobody in the media does so, and nobody in the general population calls them on it.
What came from this? Leverage, for one. One Dollar of Capital, for another. And a whole series of both conversations and political activism, including real attempts to sway real policy during the 2011 Budget Showdown.
None of it went anywhere. The Libertarian Party is a bad joke riddled with example after example of rank hypocrisy and outright bullcrap. They won't even debate their own internal inconsistencies.
Not that this is exceptional behavior for a political party. Republicans anyone?
When it comes down to it the ills of government can be boiled down to one thing: They insist on spending money they know you won't pay in taxes; this in turn requires them to run a literal theft racket from you and in doing so they license two entire industries -- the medical and banking business -- to do so as well.
So what's the point, really? After eight years, I don't think there is one.
You won't stand up.
You insist on supporting "D"s or "R"s, and if challenged on that you tell people "well, the other guy is worse."
Is that true? Is being screwed in butt by 5 inches or 6 any different? Isn't the essential character of the act the same, and aren't you really arguing over whether you'd like to be killed by firing squad or being hung?
Here's the question, when all is said and done, that I've asked myself since I began writing this column: Is there a point?
I'm forced to examine this question every day. Literally.
I'm also forced to ask this question: Does math really matter? It appears not; despite what's clear and evident you keep buying, you keep producing, you keep paying taxes and running on the hamster wheel. And I believe you'll keep doing it too, even when you literally die from the effort and lack of renumeration.
In the end today I've come to the conclusion that the answer to "is it worth it" is No.
So today, The Market Ticker goes dark.
Godspeed, America -- this nation was a great idea, but it's gone.
Anyone who listened to Denninger got wiped out, no question. He was a hack on the order of Krugman. Probably joining GS.
I stopped reading Denninger's blog after one too many of his vicious attacks on folks arguing against his positions. He rails against hypocrisy and then writes these two sentences, without a hint of understanding of his egotistical belief in his infallibility:
"I've heard many people over those years tell me that I'm not only inflexible but I also never admit I'm wrong. Those of you in that camp couldn't be more mistaken."
I'm in that camp and, no, I still believe I am not mistaken.
I will not miss his tirades one bit.
and I heard it was up on Yemen fears yesterday and plane fears the day before
LOL !!!!!!! ZH and their "surging" on a 1 MIN CHART !!!!!!! LOL !!!!!! Can you justify any surge based on 1 min timeframe? The Tylers are noobs : )
I have so much gold your wife begs me to "surge" in her mouth.
Surge definition: (of a crowd or a natural force) move suddenly and powerfully forward or upward.
I would say a 1 minute chart would fit that desc, you sound like the noob bro.
He had me at "The Libertarian Party is a bad joke riddled with example after example of rank hypocrisy and outright bullcrap. They won't even debate their own internal inconsistencies."
As someone who has ZERO tolerance for BS and selective amnesia -- especially from own ranks/group -- I have flagged this many times, that this is the case on ZH. Often bloggers here remind me of goddam religious/ideological zealots, than clear-thinking, independent-thinking libertarians.
Scenes from 'The Life of Brian' come to mind at those times.
Jehovah!
Agreed.
How are libertarians independent thinkers when they are part of a party? Yes, life of brian comes to mind: "you should all think for yourselves." That's not a party slogan.
"Gold Surges!! (back to level it held 5 days ago)."
FIFY
facepalm of agree
Oil is up 3%, treasury yields are down 3%. wtf is going on right now?
refinement production cuts.
squeeze supply to increase price.
Call Yellen and tell her that golds over $1200 nowwwwwwwwww.
Tell her we want a $1199.90 close at worst.
Open minded gold bugs may want to have a look at this analysis. Best I've seen in a long time.
http://www.advicetrade.com/contributors/Avi-Gilburt.php
QUICK!! BUY BITCOIN!!!!
PPPBBBBBBBST!!! HAHAHAHHH HAHA!!!! just f'ing kidding.
April fools bitchz.
Still a lot more of those managed money shorts to be squeezed out.
Greece, or options have simply expired yesterday ?
I heard a bunch of hippies talking about buying stocks today down by the natural food store today.
It is time.
but not the San Fran hobos saying they're finally smart enough to get in on Apple stock?
Mmmmm maybe
Gold surges thousands of haypennies
THE END IS NEAR-ISH!
For all the gold and silver believers out there. Write this down on the back of a business card and put it in your wallet. GOLD AND SILVER WILL GO EXPONENTIAL