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"Odious Debt" Has Finally Arrived: Greece To Write Off "Illegal" Debt
It was back in June 2011 when we first hinted that the time of Odious Debt is rapidly approaching.
As a reminder, this is what Odious Debt is: In international law, odious debt is a legal theory which holds that the national debt incurred by a regime for purposes that do not serve the best interests of the nation, should not be enforceable. Such debts are thus considered by this doctrine to be personal debts of the regime that incurred them and not debts of the state. In some respects, the concept is analogous to the invalidity of contracts signed under coercion.
Today, nearly four years later, Odious Debt is now a reality in Greece, where Zoi Konstantopoulou, the head of the Greek parliament and a SYRIZA member, released two videos which have promptly gone viral, designed to promote the investigative parliamentary committee to look into the circumstances surrounding the signing of the country’s two bailout agreements that led Greece to implement its austerity measures.
The short video spots, shown below, end with the message “Check it, Erase it” referring to the country’s 320 billion-euro debt.
That this concept emerges now is perhaps confusing: it was just a few days ago when the Greek FinMin promised to the IMF that Greece would honor all of its debt commitments. Should Greece decide that some (or all) of its debt was illegal and unenforceable, this will clearly not happen. Then again, this is the same political party that made pre-election promises whose execution would require about €30 billion according to German calculation, so the relentless flipflopping is not very surprising.
On the other hand, while perhaps Greece was hoping for a more favorable outcome from Tsipras' meeting with Putin today, the resultant outcome which led to virtually nothing (that was revealed at least) may embolden the Greek nation to push on with this track which is certain to infuriate the Troika.
According to Greek Reporter, Konstantopoulou has said that the newly established “Debt Truth Committee,” will investigate how much of the debt is “illegal” with a view to writing it off.
Proving that this is more than just a populist stunt, during a vote that took place early yesterday, out of the 300 Greek MPs, 156 voted in favor of establishing the public debt auditing committee.
“The committee will examine how Greece entered into the bailout agreements with its international lenders, as well as any other matter related to the memoranda’ implementation,” SYRIZA Parliamentary Secretary Christos Mantas had explained earlier.
“We are fulfilling our commitment and the social demand to explore the causes and responsibilities of an unprecedented crisis that devastated the vast majority of society,” Mantas added.
If the Greek "Debt Truth Committee" indeed persists with determining how much of its debt is legal and enforceable, and ultimately decides to rescind some (or all) of it, the only question is how long until other countries around the world, all of which are burdened with massive, untenable debt loads across the government, financial and household sectors, decide it is time to do the same and declare a fresh start.
Because as the end of the day, the winners will be 99% of the population - or all those who have been trampled upon by the central banking regime and their crony capitalist, private bank and oligarch backers. The only losers will be that 0.01% of the population which benefited during the past 8 years of what is now obvious to all has been nothing more than a farcical global "recovery."
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If the banksters printed it, it's not legit, and you should just quit.
The banksters need to repay us.
Some violence is coming to Greece very soon, as that, in addition to the loot they have stolen from the people, is all the banksters have--theft and violence.
Sad but would expect blood, tricks, false flags, finger pointing, orchestrated by bankers & NATO & USA.
There is an order, a banking system, existing cash flows from Greece, established profit center (Greece), ...we can't expect Elites to give up Revenue without blood shed.
We should Expect a big Scandal that discredit the current government (1-3 years). Think Operation Honey Moon.
Some violence is already there. Past week has seen "anarchists" throwing molotovs all over Athens. Even though Syriza is more than any prior government on their side of issues they care about (getting rid of new law that sees harsher penalties for hooded offenders, getting rid of maximum security prisons, the right to protest on Parliament grounds).
It's just getting started. I expect to see it ramped up.
HAHAHAHA
They won't prosecute anyone in Greece who had to do with the shit they are in.
They blame Germany (the EU didn't do anything evidently).
Now they say FUCK IT, since the average Greek didn't line his pocket(s).
This should be the GLARING warning sign that Greece will not repay a fucking thing and will blame everyone else when it suits them.
At the same time they want money from the Germans for Nazi war crimes.
Well how do we identify the players here.
If you are a communist, facsist, Marxist, Greens party, Christian Democrat, Workers Party, Union Party...
You still lay it all out on paper for review when you have massive Debts not supported by Revenue.
Is that Clear??
From the Lay Down you look to cut costs & debts while increasing revenue through: tax cuts, tax increases, tax reforms, tax legislation, jobs legislation, trade legislation or policy, revenue from nationalization or existing nationalized assets...
Not sure where all that leads.
But if historical data exists then coherent policy can be formed and laid down by government strategies which may not be obvious to observers and maybe should not be laid out in the press since the EU is the Overlord!!!
Taking lessons from the Outrage of the day POTUS playbook.
Somethings can take care of themselves and two rounds of golf are appropriate.
You say some sharp things, but I can't always understand images, metaphors, or similes.
I am explaining literally what I see as the Government Function. Many ZHers can't put themselves in the position of Leadership of a country. It is like Trolling. Everyone is a critic. But if you are the leader, you operate within a screwed up government and with screwed up lobbying and with screwed up government & banking procedures.
Yeah, we need new procedures in many places. But there is no political will to do this. And if you have worked beside power you know you can't change the system unless other people in power also want change.
True.
Now since your comment is so ambiguous I have no idea what the subject is.
The Greek Government is in a tough spot. True. The Government must do some radical things or fail. True. Debt must be written off. True. Allies must be found. True.
So what was your comment?
The Government which governs least governs best.
Maybe they need to not do anything and let it fail?
The whole World Financial System is a sham anyway.
Like all Pyramid Schemes it will fail.
The longer that these people can kick the can then the more that they cause damage to the people.
Yes there will be massive suffering as a result of a collapse today. There is no getting around that. But the suffering will be worse if this goes on for another half year and much worse if it lasts three more years.
It is like a toothache.
You go to the dentist and get it filled.
If you delay then you will need a Root Canal.
If you delay that then you may lose all of your teeth.
And if you delay at that point then it may end up costing you your life from an incurable overwhelming infection and Septicemia.
There are massive costs that are incurred as a result of kicking the can. They may not be apparent today. But they are being accured and you can be assured of that.
At this stage they are talking about odious debt taken on by nations.
One shudders at the consequences of the concept of odious debt being taken on by individuals over the last decade or so. In other words the loans foisted on anyone and everyone who simply registered a pulse and placed a signature which gave rise to that massive mound of sub-prime debt.
The people were defrauded even those who took on NO debt for puchasing a private residence and losing value - they didnt know that mortgages were being approved massively that inflated the price via fraudulent appraisals / fraudalent CDo's etc etc
they deserve compensation under RICO statutes
A concept similar to Odious Debt is Unconscionable contract.
Unconscionability is a doctrine in contract law that describes terms that are so extremely unjust, or overwhelmingly one-sided in favor of the party who has the superior bargaining power, that they are contrary to good conscience. Typically, an unconscionable contract is held to be unenforceable because no reasonable or informed person would otherwise agree to it. The perpetrator of the conduct is not allowed to benefit, because the consideration offered is lacking, or is so obviously inadequate, that to enforce the contract would be unfair to the party seeking to escape the contract.
Fiat money falls into this category, I think.
It is fucking amazing that Greece seems to think it can just arbitrarally decide (like Argentina kinda) what it will do and what it won't do.
A bunch of BLOWHARD shitholes who blame everyone else for their misery.
FUCK UM.
The EU should use them as an example of "a lost cause" and move on.
"The EU should use them as an example of "a lost cause" and move on." -- yes, they should have a long time ago, odd that the EU insists on continuing to make "loans" to the Greeks then isn't it?
Bad nation like a bad bank.
A great way to shift bad debt off the books I think.
Exactly, it's because the "loans" don't really cost them anything, and in return they get Greece's servitude along with every other sold out nation in the EU. One big money printing monopoly and scam is all it amounts too.
can't spell fEUdalism without EU
Jonesys right it is like a shotgun approach to households or country markets. Get as many loans as you can strategically even if they are sub-prime... in fact you want sub-prime so that those are the ones identified for write-offs if we have to do write-offs.
Get as many loans, extend as much credit from the money we make out of thin air... then we rake in from the money flows.
It ain't that hard. Maybe I should be a banker. Not saying it is moral or that I can take being immoral. Just that getting as much credit extended by law will be a numbers game and either the executives win through compensation or the whole bank wins.
A Race to the Bottom.
Best way to Rob a Bank is to Own One.
Joeblowinvestor hey maybe it is all arbitrary. It is not like we have standardized financial instruments or we all follow GAAP Accounting Rules.
If you are an Investor and the Executives of a company are spending on fancy offices, limos, airplanes, entertainment downtown, call girls, coke parties, girls for clients, big compensation packages, deferred Wages in a Trust Account managed by the Corporation invested to earn interest for 20 years, use of shell companies, and use of off-shore accounts to avoid taxes.
Investors are getting ripped off by executives gaming the system spending profit on their huge, outlandish compensation.
But there are other cost, social cost, cost paid by taxpayers as people end up in the bread line.
Patriarchs decide what the rules are in the USA, but it is mostly Mind Control.
Trust the Companies you deal with, trust the government, No Way. The goal is to extract Wealth from YOU.
hey greece, you've got something attached to your face. it looks like either a vampire squid or troika. can't tell the difference because they look the same from here.
Elephant in the room: All government debt is inherently odious.
DEFAULT IS ON TOMORROW
No sir. The IMF will use this as an excuse to suspend the payment while it opens an investigation to the claims of Greece..
The IMF cannot call this a DEFAULT anymore that the Greeks can decalre a Force Majuere as that will implode the Derivatives Market. They, both Greece in collusion with the IMF, are promoting these theatrics to buy them time.
Kick the can...
looking forward to September?
Like the concept try this bint on it.
If a nation is taken off the gold standard and then escalates the level of debt per citizen through fiat liquidity creation to stave off deflation by stimulating consumption.
IS THAT NOT AN ODIOUS DEBT?
It was never in the interests of the population because if you have nothing with no debt but in the self appointed few to retain power.
In effect that is what Greek oligarchs like oligarchs everywhere have done to preserve their own position forsaking the population.
I'm not supportive of a gold standard, but you are spot-on. "Fiat liquidity creation" as a means of producing currency, owed to private banks or their central bank allies, must end before the runaway, unequal and at this point in time cancerous economic growth it produces destroys our environment, provokes buildup of military forces, and eventually leads to nuclear holocaust.
That this comes out on the same day that Tsipras went to Moscow is no coincidence. I would be willing to bet a free lunch that one of the agreement that was made today (secretly I might add) was a security agreement should Greece repudiates the debt (default). The only way that Greece can default while using any pretext, is by having some security guaranties from Russia, Possibly from the entire SCO. for Russia, China and other Asian members of the SCO, getting Greece onboard is a great catch. It gives them an entry point in both the Med and also puts a wedge into Europe.
Greece has now become the achilles eal of the EU. I suspect they will be pushing for a Grexit in the next few weeks. Things will be interesting for a little while.
Supporting a country like Greece is not a good catch. At least economically. Politically sure Russia would want to isolate more countries from the West, but would come at economic costs. Not something I would recommend Russia to do, but they seem to think the economic costs are worth the political gains. Politics is not economics, they exist in different plains, do they do influence each other. Different goals occur at times with it comes to politics.
Greece is simply a corrupt country and really serves no one. It's a dead weight drag for anyone thinking of supporting it. Greece can't even support itself much less.
Actually Greece can support itself. It just can't support itself and repay the enormous amount of debt taken on to buy German subs and other frivolous "investments" and to bailout the European institutions that held prior Greek debt until it was pushed back onto Greek taxpayers.
So Russia does not have to support Greece if Greece exits the EZ but it may provide relatively short term finance to help Greece through the transition stage to a new currency.
What about the Noose Committee?
Hey WB. question? Are there enough trees of height left to hang off? Certainly we have rope. But old growth trees?
There is no shortage of street lamps of sufficient height, I can assure you.
No Noose is good noose, if you are likely to be on the receiving end.
somebody's got to turn their keys & start the snowball rolling - may as well be the greeks...
the truth about German war loans and reparations, the truth about odious debt... what are these SYRIZA guys playing at? (will there be others, call them PIIGS, prepared to follow?)
if greece can liquidate their debts, then so can everyone else.
whatever remaining integrity that was still left in our current economic system is now GONE...
It seems like only option. Everyone will liquidate debts. New world without debts will start ... but first 7 billion ppl will die. 300m will live.
Exactly, it shouldn't be a race to devalue your currency fastest, it should be a race to say not it to the debt hot potato. The last one to get their shit in order in that game is going to have sudden collapse when global debt markets dissappear. The sooner you leave the game, the longer you have to get your house in order. The only thing that you can't do, is push a magic fix it all painlessly button like the bankers/regulators/politicians/lawyers think is possible. There will be pain for us all, but if we're all going to crash I'd like to buckle up and have a little runway to hit the brakes...
Yeah! No Money, No Pay! Move on Greece!...
Lead the way, we'll follow soon enough
I'd like to believe it this time, but been lied to by beaurocrats too many thousands of times. Let's get excited once it's done, until then keep dreaming of who to hang.
Lol illegal debt. Greeks should default or at least made a aggreement with it's creditors long time ago instead of getting bail out loans which fix nothing and of which all of it was expected to be paid back anyways. Creditors get a hair cut, may not recieve all of their money back, but hey they get most of it back and Greece sorry to say still having to cut down on it's expeditures. Could of spared all the drama and anguish and got to a real budget that is sustainable already and focuse on getting more productive growth out of it's economy. These politicians sure love to extend the pain though, because they don't want severe short term pain.
Thing about bailout loans for Greece they extracted retirement wealth and other wealth from Greece.
Could this have been the purpose of Bailouts and the previous loans from Banksters ALL ALONG??
Of course it is Financial war. Not a German war, but a German Financial War maybe. And remember Drachma was a low value currency when it entered the EU, so this was another kind of warfare. Extract the Wealth, make our country supreme, make the other countries look lazy, dumb, corrupt, and into cheap labor force so we can vacation on the Med.
More 1984-ism on display. Today's posts are full of it.
Okay, so Greece says that an odious previous regime did these things and the Greek nation is therefore not obligated to pay for the sins of these past miscreants-- who should instead be held personally responsible.
Way to go, morons. You just supplied post-Nazi Germany with a Get-Out-Of-Paying-The-Greeks-For-Free card. They simply have to quote your own Parliamentary findings to you and say ta-ta.
Who thinks this shit up? And then who reads it and thinks it sounds like a terrific idea? Talk about an orphan concept once it blows up in the faces of the Greeks,
That's OK for Greece, either way they end up with a clean slate. They only difference it makes is how much of the loss is absorbed by Germany as opposed to other countries and their institutions.
so thinking like a caveman
this is the age of chutzpah - hypocrisy is a virtue
Greece isn't looking to repudiate the debt AND get Germany to pay theirs. One or the other will do.
Greece: just get on with it, quit dicking around
Its odious politicos and bankers. The money smells just like it always has.
But if we're to believe that banks actually got the money, then the Greeks never saw it anyway. And I seriously doubt Germany was going to pay up for their past sins at this point.
edit
F man, it's only fiat so print up a couple zillion for each nation / person - as all debt will just be "poofed" ayway when no one is watching as long as the banksters stay rich & are unaccountable
bout a month ago Goldman Sachs bought $2.5B of Dominican Republic bonds used to pay off some odious debt to PetroCaribe (Venezuela's oil crony diplomacy arm).
The Dominican public didn't know they just issued debt to pay off Hugo Chavez buddies that gave credit to friends.
When the Dominican people find out, they will repudiate 100% of that bad odious debt.
The Dominican people will face an invasion or coup from one of the great powers if they were to do that. ALL great powers currently zealously guard the money-as-debt system which is mathematically impossible to reconcile with itself or a healthy, steady-state economy that can stably provide for the needs of humanity while accomodating technological development.
Although the Dominican Republic and Greece may be starters of the revolution against unjust debt inherent to the monetary system, there can be no stable revolution there. Either said revolution spreads to one of the great powers and uses its military, economic, and cultural strength as a means of fending off and defeating the money power, or it fizzles out completely.
This quote caught my eye:
“If the Greek "Debt Truth Committee" indeed persists with determining how much of its debt is legal and enforceable,…”
This scenario looks like it could easily morph into a commission of judges, who then sit in judgment on the debts.
This then reinforces the point I often make: “All money is law.” Private debt spreading corporations have their credit money issuance privilege sanctioned by law. In the course of hypothecations, said corporations will acquire debt instruments to hold against humanity. Their credit gets called Federal Reserve notes (not U.S. Treasury, or even money) and this credit is sanctioned as good for taxes and dues, public and private.
This is a considerable perversion of our evolutionary history, where we once held credits and debts against each other. We usually remembered who owed who what, and the credits and debts were related to goods or services. Today, credit finance holds money related to debt instruments against us, and as such is a parasite which has injected itself into our relations. This parasite came in uninvited and was a con job from the beginning.
Money should relate to goods and services so there is no mismatch of types. Credit as money relates to its debt instrument, therefore it is once removed, and is a mismatch.
The right kind of credit is ok (if it relates to goods and services), but humanity doesn’t use that type. We are under hypnosis, a hypnosis funded by usury emitted from finance. Money power influence becomes clear when one investigates “flows of funds” funneling into both press and government.
Phenomenal. I distinctly differentiate between productive and parasitic finance. It is not as simple as big is bad, small is good. Or public equities are good, private equity is bad. Or even distressed is good or bad. It is about the mechanism via which the individual financiar plies his trade - wealth creation or wealth extraction. Cooperation and partnership towards a real underlying productive use of the capital allocation, or purely siphoning off assets.
Unfortunately, in the aggregate, any sector is merely the sum of its underlying parts. If finance is loaded with parasites, the effect of the financial sector will be parasitic on the economy. We are there...
Here is opportunity for Networking and spreading ideas:
- Group of Counties that want to secede from California and Oregon
State of Jefferson 51 declaration petition formation
www.soj51.net -
Issues - State of Jefferson
www.soj51.net/issues.html -
www.soj51.net/finances.html -
www.soj51.net/events.html -
www.soj51.net/process.html -
About time. Their debt is the result of a loan-sharking operation cooked up between corrupt politicians and the banking mafia. Default and put the corrupt politicians in jail (at least) for treason.
Golden Sacks
Sounds like Putin gave him some advice...
Go Greece, go!
“The Greek FinMin promised to the IMF that Greece would honor all of its debt. Should Greece decide that some (or all) its debt was illegal and unenforceable, this will clearly not happen.”
Ah, you missed a fine point of law: the difference between “debt” and illegal debt. If what is purported to be debt is, in fact, not legal – is missing valid parties, was done with undue influence, under duress, without full disclosure et cetera – such “debt” is not a legal debt.
Thus, there is no inconsistency in the quoted passage; only a failure to consider essential requirements for a valid contract.
And, the day will come when Americans will have to deal with those same essential requirements.
You see, current federal policies are “unsustainable”, as expressed by authors of Financial Reports of the US Government. They really do use such modest adjectives, don’t they?
One of the factors that make such policies “unsustainable” is the enormous amount of Federal debt. Such debt has been growing for at least 150 years. It can neither be paid practically nor constitutionally.
The sound of pipes is what you hear: the Piper approaches with his invoice.
When he appears, should we pay the debt: debt that existed before we were born, that was never explained to us, that was never fully disclosed, among other failures?
Or, should they, who fraudulently established such debt, took the cash, and disappeared?
Or, should we investigate and recover the trillions that went missing from several government agencies, both federal and state?
all money owed by the us taxpayer to the federal reserve, a cartel of banks owned mainly by European Jewish banking dynasties, is odious.
Speaking of which - what about odious theft?
http://www.softpanorama.org/Skeptics/Pseudoscience/harvard_mafia.shtml
It would not surprise me if there were treason trials and hangings, worldwide.
Oh how I would love to see Bernanke hanging from a fucking tree with his eyeballs popped out of his head swinging next to Geithner. Such satisfaction for what they have done
don't give the banksters, crooked gov & politicians one more rfed cent. Let them hang themselfs who will just pass this massive debt onto the sheeple - so what, what's another zillion in debt - shit it's only fiat paper money lol lol
All debt is odious.
Don't diminish real debt from odious debt.
If JP Morgan sends in hookers and lavishes a couple elected officials with dinners and sex in exchange for an unnecessary multi-billion dollar sewer system - Jefferson County, Alabama - then that is odious debt. The taxpayers never had a say.
If some Bucks County chick who wants a useless degree from Yale regrets her action that is not odious. She knew the terms. She was cognizant of the terms
All debt is not odious. POTUS 44 wants to forgive all non-odious debt because he is a Frank Davis cocksucking anti-American thug. He has nothing better to do outside of golf than to fuck us and piss on us while we get fucked.
All debt-backed notes fraudulently claimed to be currency by the bankers constitute odious debt. Your scenario only applies when money is ultimately created by the state, as it should be. Money is right now illegitimately lent into existence by private banks, who bear no risk and utilize no capital to do so, and thus any claim on it by banks is odious.
Why would any institution public or private EVER lend the Greeks another penny?
because they invent the loans out of thin air and it doesn't actually cost them a penny?
(apart from their salaries and the maintenace of their gleaming tower blocks)?
Because a borrower with a bankruptcy and no debt is ironically in a MUCH better position to pay back a loan than a borrower who has an outstanding debt burden way past its capacity to pay even the interest on.
And what will be the odious debt of Spain, Italy, Portugal, Ireland?
The Federal Reserve has no pretense of answering to public voting on any of its past debts. So by this definition the entire US public debt is odious. But uncollectable.
I almost printed this article, and then said...............wait......a.....minute.......lets us see what happens I am skeptical of the Greek Backbone.
Pretty well ALL of the debts for at least a Century, if not longer, depending on the country, have been ODIOUS DEBTS. The foundation of the established political economy is debt slavery backed by wars based on deceits. The fundamental mechanisms were that ALL of the ways that ALL of the facets of the political processes were funded resulted in the best organized gang of criminals, the international bankers, or the banksters, being able to turn almost ALL successful politicians into their puppets, that were voted for by the masses of muppets which were misinformed during their whole lives by the school systems and the mass media, mostly through LIES BY OMISSION, that did not present the OBVIOUS SOCIAL FACTS:
Privately controlled banks being able to make the public "money" supply out of nothing as debts was ALWAYS ODIOUS DEBTS, that was ALWAYS the result of the best organized criminals, the banksters, being able to dominate the political processes through a long history of bribery, intimidation, as well as the occasional assassination of those who could not otherwise be bribed or intimidated.
The established systems are almost totally based on those ODIOUS DEBTS. However, the deeper problems are that those debt controls were backed by the death controls, because money is measurement backed by murder. Any serious attempts to change the debt control systems, by recognizing the existence of ODIOUS DEBTS, directly leads to the bigger problems in the background, that there is almost nothing but a core of organized crime, surrounded by controlled opposition groups.
Furthermore, IF one looks deeper than that, then one discovers that the death control systems are absolutely necessary and vital to everything else. It is absolutely impossible that there are no death control systems. The only things that actually exist are the dynamic equilibria between different systems of organized lies operating robberies, because ALL human beings and human civilizations operate as entropic pumps of energy flows, which necessarily act according to the principles and methods of organized crime.
Recognizing that the established systems are based on governments enforcing the frauds of privately controlled banks making the public "money" supply out of nothing as debts BARELY SCRATCHES THE SURFACE OF THE DEEPER PROBLEMS!
By and large, the history of warfare was based upon successfully backing up deceits which destruction. Those War Kings that survived through those processes created the sovereign states, which had the power to tax, and the power to kill to back up that power to tax. Thus, the real history of warfare was organized crime on larger and larger scales, which gradually morphed into the biggest bullies' creating ALL of the most dominate natural languages and philosophy of science to become consistent with their bullshit world view. That real history of warfare made governments becoming the biggest form of organized crime, whose degree of social success enabled them to promote their bullshit that they were somehow something else than simply the biggest form of organized crime.
The powers made and maintained by the War Kings gradually were captured by the Fraud Kings, the banksters, through their persistent application of the same methods of organized crime, so that the powers of governments were effectively privatized, and that is still now automatically getting worse faster, especially because almost all of the publicly significant opposition groups are controlled to stay within the frame of reference of the biggest bullies' bullshit world view, which is based upon the DUALITIES of false fundamental dichotomies, and that is then followed by promoting impossible ideals, that actually make the opposite happen in the real world.
The concept of ODIOUS DEBTS is certainly CORRECT. However, examining that concept tends to usually be nothing more that peering through a keyhole at the BIGGER PROBLEMS, that the whole history of civilization has been based on the social success of being able to back up lies with violence, which developed to become the current systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, through which the best organized gangs of criminals effectively control the biggest gangs of criminals.
By and large, the vast majority of people have been successfully brainwashed to believe in bullshit, and conditioned to not want to look at the central social facts that they have been living, for generation after generation, inside of fundamentally fraudulent financial accounting systems, in which ODIOUS DEBTS were the normal state of affairs, not rare exceptions!
By and large, while the vast majority of people unthinkingly take for granted the biggest bullies' bullshit world view, the few that do begin to notice the degree to which the entire political economy has become based on runaway systems of ENFORCED FRAUDS, automatically getting worse, faster, also tend to still STAY INSIDE of the biggest bullies' bullshit world view, and therefore, tend to STILL PROMOTE the same old bullshit "solutions" based on false fundamental dichotomies, and the related impossible ideals.
The real history of civilization has been based on the actual death controls being most successfully done through the maximum possible deceits about themselves, which then became the foundation for the actual debt controls to be most successfully done through the maximum possible deceits. Inside of that overall context, the deeper problems are that THERE MUST NECESSARILY EXIST SOME DEATH CONTROL SYSTEMS, which then back up the debt control systems.
The ways that those actual systems developed to become most socially successful through being done via the maximum possible deceits and treacheries is the DEEPER PROBLEM BEHIND THE PROBLEM OF ODIOUS DEBTS. At the present time, there are probably almost nobody who is able and willing to look deeper at the what the issues regarding ODIOUS DEBTS really means!
Generally speaking, it is almost impossible to exaggerate the degree to which we are living inside of Bizarro Mirror World, or Wonderland Matrix, where everything appears proportionately backwards and absurd. One of the portals to begin to enter into deeper consideration of those problems are to begin to recognized the degree to which almost ALL debts are now ODIOUS DEBTS, which have developed due to ENFORCED FRAUDS. Those systems of privately controlled banks' frauds being enforced by governments have gotten worst, first, in some places, that have therefore noticed that more. However, pretty well the whole world is operating in social pyramid systems, which have been developing on the basis of being able to back up lies with violence for thousands of years, at an exponentially accelerating rate.
Greece is merely one of the leading edges of the ways that debt slavery systems had a structure which necessarily drove them to generate numbers which have become debt insanities. Since those debt insanities have become mathematically impossible to resolve within the established systems' frame of reference, the concept of ODIOUS DEBTS is emerging as a serious consideration.
However, actually doing that then segues into its real context, which is that human beings and civilization necessarily operate as entropic pumps of energy flows, which necessarily operate in ways which match the principles and methods of organized crime, which repeat in fractal patterns. While that is the case, the biggest bullies, who are now the banksters, have been able to dominate society so much, for so long, that they have been able to systematically reverse the meaning of everything, but promoting their kinds of false fundamental dichotomies, and related impossible ideals, in ways whereby almost all of the publicly significant opposition to the core systems of the banksters' organized crime are controlled to also stay within that frame of reference, and therefore, end up promoting the same old impossible ideals, which continue to actually cause the opposite to happen in the real world.
It would take a much more profound series of intellectual scientific revolutions to appreciate the full meaning of the concept of ODIOUS DEBTS, because that can not be fully comprehended without recognizing the history of ODIOUS DEATH CONTROLS, which in turn can not be fully understood without facing the basic facts that there must necessarily be some death control systems.
The superficial levels of awakening are degrees of awareness of how the established systems are based on enforced frauds, whereby the debt controls are backed by the death controls, in ways which operate through the maximum bullshit, promoted by the best available professional liars and immaculate hypocrtes. The deeper levels of awakening would be to develop better death controls, to back up better debt controls, which made greater use of information, in order to enable higher consciousness regarding how and why human artificial selection systems developed inside of the overall context of the always existing natural selection systems.
The grand paradoxes that civilization currently faces are that the history of warfare and economics where both based on human beings necessarily living robbers in their environment, that operated systems of organized lies about those robberies. Therefore, while human beings necessarily operate as entropic pumps of energy flows, that is all deliberately misunderstood in the maximum possible backward ways, which is driving civilization as a whole to behave in more and more absurd ways, that have become runaway psychotic criminal insanities.
That debt slavery systems have generated debt insanities, which has reawakened the relevance of the concept of ODIOUS DEBTS is an interesting development. However, so far, the overwhelming vast majority of people are not willing and able to fully imagine what accepting the concept of ODIOUS DEBTS actually means. In the end, because the debt controls are actually backed up by the death controls, changing the debt controls requires actually changing the death controls. That change should primarily be based on profound intellectual scientific revolutions, which then apply to political science, through the currently combined money/murder systems, which are now operating through the social successes being based on attitudes of evil deliberate ignorance towards the real ways those are now based on the maximum possible frauds and deceits.
Correcting those errors goes far beyond the few first levels of being able and willing to recognized that the runaway debt insanities are due to debt slavery systems being based on the enforced frauds, which were inherent in those systems of debt slavery, backed by wars based on deceits. Eventually, IF one is willing and able to think the concept of ODIOUS DEBTS through, then one arrives at different levels of recognizing the history of ODIOUS DEATHS, inside of a natural selection context where there necessarily had to be some death control systems.
The only way forward through a full examination of the concept of ODIOUS DEBTS is to radically transform the general understanding of death controls in general, in the context of the overall cultural systems of artificial selection, which necessarily must exist due to the background of natural selection pressures necessarily existing. However, after working on those kinds of political problems for several decades, I have become convinced that runaway debt insanities WILL result in runaway death insanities ... while I see no good grounds to believe in some sufficient series of political miracles to manifest as more wide-spread enlightenment about those issues ...
tldr
... zzzz ...
So sayeth the Zombie Sheeple.
Having the attention span of a gnat is nothing to brag about.
Thanks Radical. Another great article.
Entropic pumps!
Looked at life in those terms for quite a while.
Never ran across anyone else who has even considered it.
Good to know there's at least two of us!
Your reads are a bit lengthy sometimes, but I usually spend the time.
Keep posting.
By Beat Balzli (Der Spiegel:Feb 08, 2010 – 06:55 PM)
Goldman Sachs helped the Greek government to mask the true extent of its deficit with the help of a derivatives deal that legally circumvented the EU Maastricht deficit rules. At some point the so-called cross currency swaps will mature, and swell the country's already bloated deficit.
Greeks aren't very welcome in the Rue Alphones Weicker in Luxembourg. It's home to Eurostat, the European Union's statistical office. The number crunchers there are deeply annoyed with Athens. Investigative reports state that important data "cannot be confirmed" or has been requested but "not received."
Creative accounting took priority when it came to totting up government debt.Since 1999, the Maastricht rules threaten to slap hefty fines on euro member countries that exceed the budget deficit limit of three percent of gross domestic product. Total government debt mustn't exceed 60 percent.
The Greeks have never managed to stick to the 60 percent debt limit, and they only adhered to the three percent deficit ceiling with the help of blatant balance sheet cosmetics. One time, gigantic military expenditures were left out, and another time billions in hospital debt. After recalculating the figures, the experts at Eurostat consistently came up with the same results: In truth, the deficit each year has been far greater than the three percent limit. In 2009, it exploded to over 12 percent.
Now, though, it looks like the Greek figure jugglers have been even more brazen than was previously thought. "Around 2002 in particular, various investment banks offered complex financial products with which governments could push part of their liabilities into the future," one insider recalled, adding that Mediterranean countries had snapped up such products.
Greece's debt managers agreed a huge deal with the savvy bankers of US investment bank Goldman Sachs at the start of 2002. The deal involved so-called cross-currency swaps in which government debt issued in dollars and yen was swapped for euro debt for a certain period -- to be exchanged back into the original currencies at a later date.
Fictional Exchange Rates
Such transactions are part of normal government refinancing. Europe's governments obtain funds from investors around the world by issuing bonds in yen, dollar or Swiss francs. But they need euros to pay their daily bills. Years later the bonds are repaid in the original foreign denominations.
But in the Greek case the US bankers devised a special kind of swap with fictional exchange rates. That enabled Greece to receive a far higher sum than the actual euro market value of 10 billion dollars or yen. In that way Goldman Sachs secretly arranged additional credit of up to $1 billion for the Greeks.
This credit disguised as a swap didn't show up in the Greek debt statistics. Eurostat's reporting rules don't comprehensively record transactions involving financial derivatives.
"The Maastricht rules can be circumvented quite legally through swaps," says a German derivatives dealer.
In previous years, Italy used a similar trick to mask its true debt with the help of a different US bank. In 2002 the Greek deficit amounted to 1.2 percent of GDP. After Eurostat reviewed the data in September 2004, the ratio had to be revised up to 3.7 percent. According to today's records, it stands at 5.2 percent.
At some point Greece will have to pay up for its swap transactions, and that will impact its deficit. The bond maturities range between 10 and 15 years. Goldman Sachs charged a hefty commission for the deal and sold the swaps on to a Greek bank in 2005.
The bank declined to comment on the controversial deal. The Greek Finance Ministry did not respond to a written request for comment.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/greek-debt-crisis-how-goldman...
reposted by WR;)
Plot twist: Debt commission finds all debt is not odious.
Tin Foil plot twist: The U.S. is behind this entire show. Greece is their trojan horse to blow up EU; U.S. wants Europe as protectorate dependant on U.S. power.
The US, EU, Russia, China, India, and any world power of note is based on debt-backed currency lent into existence by private banks. Money, which was historically the prerogative of a lawfully established state run on democratic principles, has been monopolized by the private banking houses. The political and military brass of the aforementioned powers are nothing more than well-compensated retainers of millionaires and billionaires in order to create unnecessary economic growth fueled by the debt of the masses, fight wars that create markets in arms and divide the international working classes, and use the state apparatus as a means of coercing people to adopt the bank dominated system.
I, for one, could care less about which great power has been handpicked by the global oligarchy to have its day in the sun. What I care about is overthrowing the international bankers and corporations once and for all.
0 – FORCE MAJEURE! – Call Void All Bankster Bogus Derivative Debts! Because paying off these trough fraud induced debts have become a technical and practical impossibility.
THE REAL ECONOMICAL PROBLEMS & SOLUTIONS BY YOURI CARMA, 29 December 2008 http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=216627.0
In Greece it is actually Truth Committee Debt... funded with borrowed money :)
"...Tsipras' meeting with Putin today, the resultant outcome which led to virtually nothing..."
We really do not know what Tsipras and Putin had to say behind closed doors. But, neither Russia nor Greece wants to be seen as trying to break up the EU, which would play into the hands of neocons and NATO nutcases here in the US just as they are starting to lose mainstream Europe.
Nor would it be good for Russia to provide Greece with financial aid which would make things nicer (or less nasty) for the IMF and banks that have loaned money to Greece.
Best for both of them to wait until (euro) grexit after which Russia will come in with humanitarian aid for destitute Greeks - which would likely be matched by the West (great for Greece). Greece could still stay in the EU and vote against sanctions in the summer.
Russia Today (RT): April 09, 2015 11:38
Greece has so met the deadline and transferred €448 million to the International Monetary Fund calming fears Athens could soon leave the euro.
"The tranche of €448 million has been delivered to the IMF," said the Greek news agency ANA referring to senior sources in the Greek Finance Ministry. The money was transferred despite rumors the country would not manage to do it on time, which could push the country out of the eurozone.
The payment comes as Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras is in Moscow on a two-day official visit. On Thursday, he said the main objective of the Greek government is to keep the country in the eurozone and to find a common European solution to its financial problems.
"The purpose of our government is that Greece remained in the eurozone, we are looking for a common European solution to this [debt restructuring – Ed.] problem," Tsipras said, speaking to students at the Moscow State Institute for International Affairs.
Eurozone deputy finance ministers have set a six-day deadline for Athens to revise reform proposals in order to increase the possibility of unlocking bailout aid at a Eurogroup meeting on April 24, Greek newspaper Ekathimerini reported on Thursday.
"A deadline of six working days was given to the Greek side to present proposals that can be acceptable by creditors," the paper said.
Athens has already submitted a 26-page reform list criticized by the IMF and the EU negotiators for being too vague and the measures not concrete enough.
Having paid off €448 million in debt to the IMF, Greece has another €768 million falling due in May. Should Greece manages to fulfill these obligations, and the EU approves the reforms proposed by Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis, the Troika of international creditors represented by the IMF, the European Central Bank, and the European Commission, is expected to allocate the next €7.2 billion in aid to Athens and negotiate the restructuring of its external debt by June.
http://rt.com/business/248173-greece-pays-debt-imf/
Greece meets IMF payment deadlineDeutsche Welle (DW): Date 09.04.2015
Media reports have said the Greek government has met a crucial deadline to pay back a loan tranche to the International Monetary Fund (IMF). But that hasn't removed creditors' anxiety over the country's finances.
The leftist government in Greece met Thursday's deadline to repay a 450-million-euro ($483-million) loan installment to the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the Athens News Agency reported.
The payment came as officials in Athens were racing against the clock to reach a deal with international lenders over unlocking another 7.2 billion euros in bailout money in return for structural reforms that many view as harsh.
But Thursday's repayment did little in the way of lessening creditors' doubts about Greece's ability to honor its debt short and medium-term.
Struggling to keep afloat
The AFP news agency reported that the order for the IMF repayment was already given to the central bank as Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras spent two days in Moscow on a charm offensive aimed at strengthening bilateral ties.
A failure to reach a deal about further financial assistance by June could well push Greece into bankruptcy and out of the eurozone.
The country remains in a precarious position despite having raised 1.14 billion euros from the sale of six-month bonds (T-bills) on Wednesday. Greek banks are dependent on the European Central Bank for financing but the latter no longer accepts Greek sovereign bonds as collateral for loans.
hg/cjc (AFP, dpa, AP)
http://www.dw.de/greece-meets-imf-payment-deadline/a-18371436
posted by WR;)