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America's Intervention Legacy: "Iraq Is Finished"
As the international community struggles to understand how the interplay between a series of US foreign policy failures (characterized by hastily devised schemes to tip the Middle East balance of power in whichever direction seems most expedient in the short-term) and geopolitical wrangling over what are viewed as “strategic” Middle Eastern states has somehow managed to produce multiple bloody proxy wars, there are many who still ask: “Who is ISIS?” A new piece from The Atlantic seeks answers from Iraqis with first-hand experience.
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Excerpts from "Iraq Is Finished":
One afternoon this March, during a visit to Jordan, I sat on the banks of the Dead Sea with my Iraqi friend, Azzam Alwash.
The evening following our Dead Sea visit, Azzam and I went out for Italian food in Amman with a diverse group of our Iraqi friends, Sunni and Shiite, Kurd and Arab…There was a lot of shouting and we all got soaked, but somehow we had survived the trip. This, to me, represented Iraq writ large.
The conversation soon turned to Daesh (known as ISIS in the West), and how the group had formed. A common view I’ve heard in the region, propagated by Sunni and Shiite alike, is that Daesh is the creation of the United States. There was no al-Qaeda in Iraq or Islamic State before the U.S. invasion in 2003. Therefore, so the twisted reasoning goes, the United States must have deliberately created the group in order to make Sunnis and Shiites fight each other, thereby allowing the U.S to continue dominating the region. Local media had reported on alleged U.S. airdrops to Daesh. Some outlets even referred to Daesh's leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, as an Israeli-trained Mossad agent.
One of my dining companions asked me where I thought the group came from. I responded that Daesh was a symptom of a much larger problem. Regional sectarian conflict was an unintended consequence of the Iraq War and the manner in which the United States had left the country, both of which had empowered Iran and changed the balance of power in the Middle East. In my view, regional competition—of which Iran versus Saudi Arabia is the main but not only dimension—exacerbated existing fault lines. Those countries’ support for extreme sectarian actors in different countries had now turned local grievances over poor governance into proxy wars. Iran was funding and training Shiite militias, as well as advising regimes in Baghdad and Damascus. Gulf financing had flowed to Sunni fighters, including the ones that ultimately became Daesh. At the same time, there was a symbiotic relationship between corrupt elites in Iraq and terrorists—they justified each other's existence, each claiming to provide protection from the other.
Azzam’s was only one of numerous explanations of Daesh’s origins and power that I heard from Iraqis during my visit to Jordan. All of these explanations contained some truth: There was no one simple reason, but rather a complex set of factors, that had enabled the group to take control of so much of Iraq.
But I had a more basic question: "Who are Daesh?" Many, he told me, had come out of the town of Tal Afar, where there had been bitter fighting between the Sunni and Shiite populations during the civil war. They were former Baathists, members of Saddam Hussein’s party who had been purged from Iraq’s government following the international intervention to oust Hussein. Then, after 2003, some became al-Qaeda, and now they were Daesh. They felt excluded and marginalized. Daesh gave them a sense of empowerment and let them present themselves as the defenders of the Sunnis against Shiites, Iran, and the United States.
"Iraq is finished," he lamented to me. "There is no state left. It is a state of militias.”
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USA! USA USA!
mission accomplished: Team America!! FUCK YEAH!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOEIruwzf54
azzam alwash...is that the guy on parks and rec.....
'unintended consequences' created ISIS.
Yeeeaaahhh, unintended consequences - that's the ticket.
Yes. Of course, blame the USA. The Great Satan.
Because everybody knows there are no other players in the region and nobody who would like to see a failed US attempt at stabilizing the ME more than the US itself. All Arabs are victims and Islam is the religion of peace. Once the Jews have been eliminated from the face of the earth, and the Christians, and the Buddhists, and the Hindus, there will be peace for a thousand years.
Yeaaaahhh. That's right troll.
I have always loved truth so passionately that I have often resorted to lying as a way of introducing it into the minds which were ignorant of its charms.
Giacomo Casanova
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
Douglas Adams
You've strayed into the wrong part of the manual.
I visited the mideast about 8 years ago. I traveled with some good friends one of which married into an Egytpian family. I spent many evenings in conversation with them to learn their thoughts regarding their situation and the prospect of continued US involvement. Without fail the two messages that resounded were: 1. That the Arab world repsected a heavy hand - it had always been so and always will be so, and 2. the Arab world did not want help from the US, they wanted to sort things out themselves - they felt that the US stuck its nose into places it did not belong. Take from this what you will...
One Shitizen's foreign policy failure is a neocons success.
Iraq was finished the day it was arbitrarily carved out of the Ottoman Empire by 2 european bureaucrats.
Once always Bush's fault now never Bush's fault. I love how quick ZH is to tag the errors of the current U.S. failures as the result of only Obama and if it happened on Bush's watch it was a collective error. I call bullshit. Bush created Daesh trying to show daddy his dick is big too.
Go back further and it was part of Persia. Maybe it was lost whenever it was the persians lost it? We could do this all day, BTW.
Still, Iraq was never Finnish.
they need their next self produced hitler.
I just read Orwell's "homage to catalonia" and I think you may be right. Franco/Hitler/Mussolini/Hussein
Someone has to serve Israel's interests too .
It's the old divide and conquer strategy.
At which the Persians are literally past masters. Look up satrapy.
The entire ME is a giant distraction from the war the US REALLY WANTS TO FIGHT: Ukraine/Russia. We can keep the ME off balance and at war with itself indefinitely, effectively nullifying it. Russia, not so much.
The war they they really wanted is Europe vs. Russia in the Ukraine. That would stop any economic integration of Russia with Europe which poses a real threat to continued U.S. domination of the region.
Since Germany and France aren't biting my guess is that a false flag in Estonia that immediately brings all NATO members to the border of Russia 100 miles from St. Petersburg is the way we will go.
The NeoCons don't really want a war that would irradiate their assets but really need to break up Russian so some new oligarchs and bankers can digest it.
Unfortunately Putin has other plans...
Ya can't really blame people for their strong belief in AmeriKan meddling.
As Rummy said, "Sweep it all up, things related (to 9/11 attacks) and not..."
Instability was less of an issue before we went to Iraq and messed with all those other countries that bore no responsibility.
You forgot to mention the immigrants!!
"Therefore, so the twisted reasoning goes, the United States must have deliberately created the group in order to make Sunnis and Shiites fight each other, thereby allowing the U.S to continue dominating the region."
No, what's twisted is that the feral, war criminal government of the Annointed States did exactly that with training in Jordan to launch against Syria.
The other twisted bit of this article is that the writer, Emma Sky, is out whoring with Muslim men in Iraq to get her story.
A woman out with FOUR men in muslim society? When any woman is looked at as a piece of meat by men in general there is no other answer to how she gets her info...whoring or complete fabrication.
She is absolutely hideous - Even if she was paying me i wouldn't let her come close to my junk. I gag looking at her
It's unsurprising that you are still stuck looking at pin-up girls.
Well, "Iraq" was a western invention anyway. Sykes Picot and all that. Never was a nation state and very probably never will be.
Yes, and it would be far more honest to say the Cock-Sucker-in-Chief pulled out early.
Meh. The real problem was Bush the First setting up the conditions that lead to never ending un-peace in Iraq. The no fly zones and sanctions created conditions that meant there could be no peace until one side was destroyed. If he'd either finished the job or been satisfied with the highway of death we all could have moved on.
I'm making over $7k a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life. This is what I do... www.globe-report.com
Mission Accomplished.
Iran got what it always wanted: the richest part of Iraq, now all the way to Tikrit.
That's the price for hating our freedoms
Time to wipe out all life on Irraqis! /Dune's Galactic Emperor
That there was funny.
Ah, the cradle of civilization destroyed: U.S.A U.S.A- exceptional and mission accomplished
Agree - unintended consequences my ass.
"There is no state left. It is a state of militias" -- entropy bitchez, expect more as the global centrally-planned "market" becomes increasingly ever more local...
Nice nation building, America!
But war is how all real nations were built, so look on the bright side, I mean to the degree you want there to be a real nation state or states over there. Woulda coulda shoulda been drawn out over many decades of not civil war, but Obama needed us outta there Because Narrarative.
Yep. Stability, prosperity and human rights
Jeb willl fix it.
You'll need a /sarc tag to get many upvotes on that idea, unless of course you're serious, in which case you won't get many at all but belie a deeper problem in your understanding of the latest Bush.
His avatar is Red Rasbbbttttt
Note to junkers: the default tone of ZH blogs is... Sarcasm.
A moniker like Red Raspberry could be a sign of sarcasm as a default position maybe?
"There was no al-Qaeda in Iraq or Islamic State before the U.S. invasion in 2003. Therefore, so the twisted reasoning goes, the United States must have deliberately created the group "
I have news for you. Al-CIA-Duh was created by the U.S long before 2003.
I did a tour in the Pentagon in Planning&Operations in 82-83 and we would often hear "the CIA wants to...." and our standard outlook was "well, this is gonna be fucked up". The senior leadership at Langley has always been Ivy League frat boys who thought they were all James Bond. The only thing worse was when they told you "the State Dept likes the Idea"......
If 3.3 million killed is not enough, 2400 tons of depleted uranium with a half life of 4.5 billion years is surely enough:
US Sponsored Genocide Against Iraq 1990-2012. Killed 3.3 Million, Including 750,000 Childrenhttp://www.globalresearch.ca/us-sponsored-genocide-against-iraq-1990-201...
According to Iraqi government statistics, the rate of cancer in the country has skyrocketed from 40 per 100,000 people prior to the First Gulf War in 1991, to 800 per 100,000 in 1995, to at least 1,600 per 100,000 in 2005
The culprit behind all of these health issues is depleted uranium, a byproduct of uranium enrichment.
http://www.mintpressnews.com/depleted-uranium-iraq-wars-legacy-cancer/19...
yes, but wasnt it all worth it?......yes, i believe it was.....
its just Foreign Policy.....
Retarded. The longer the half life an element has, the better, radiation wise.
It's not that simple.
Nuclear radiation from natural decay is a very well understood phenomenon in physics. U-238 just isnt a big risk due to radiation it emits. You could posit some chemical interaction, but "DU rounds" truthers rarely do. Lead, on the other hand, has some serious health effects, AND a far longer half life. You prefer lead projectiles presumably.....
I could not give a rat's ass who they are.
What I want to know is who trains, who funds payrole and arms dealers, who supplies training and where are they trained, who supplies food and weapons by air and ground, who supplies travel documents and airfair for recruits through major airports, who provides medical care and where is treatment of seriously injured provided?
I would bet that's all common knowledge in theatre but not reported outside of theatre.
I thought it was pretty obvious, but, maybe not. In my view
The US Special Forces and CIA train them, (along with selected member of SAS, and Academi folks from Tradoc).
The payroll, no matter where the bucks end, originates in none other than the BIS.
The arms dealers are US, Russia, China, Czechoslovakia, Italy, Israel, KSA; all funneled through local business reps.
They are trained in the US, Jordan, KSA, North Africa, and some in-situ
My 2 cents.
I think Payrole has two ee's as in Payerole. There fixed it.
Of course the CIA and mossad created ISIS and continue to support them. This is what they do around the world. I'm sure Saudi Arabia and some others in the ME are also involved in their funding. Where do you think all of those weapons Hillary was moving out of Libya were going? Straight to the "rebels" in Syria. The soil in Syria must be really good for growing opium poppies.
When Colin Powell said "you break it, you own it", he was actually talking about the objective, not the risk.
Where is the surprise? The USA following the British and French have for over 100 years treatred the "Middle East" to a horror show of politicval leaders - bought and paid for - to keep the oil flowing. Now that we are broke - we are left to watch the resulting realignment of the various fanatical elements. So why the surprise? We gave them public health, enlarged demographics - young people, internet, and the appetite to advance their civilization - but always despotic, corrupt oligarchs - most of whom on a good day were laughable at best, and mass murders at worst. Theonly really stupid and ridiculous thing we did was talk ouselves into believing the "arab spring" would produce liberal representative democratic responses. Never going to happen.
Yeah but do they have gay marriage?
They have a real rape epidemic though, and it has spread outside of campus over there.
jldc: We don't have 'liberal representative democratic' system in the West
you know that and I know that; but the MM pretends otherwise. And if you ask your college age and educated children, they will tell you we do! But they are wrong. The nanny state put in place by white, middle class women who were ugly, and couldn't play sports, and who got to divorce to raise their children because female lawyerts took over divorce court, and the DEMS pandered to them - even that sicko Hillary did not have the guts to throw out the bum who was unfaithful - ever wonder why? In any event we - the soon to be Mex America - now live in the politically correct world where almost any humans who try will be able to defeat us - just give it enough time.
it's called a dark age. folks will be selling themselves to be serfs for protection.. all over again. Such is the cycle of civilzation/mankind.
On the same lines - a must read article - also in The Altantic: "What ISIS Really Wants."
http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wan...
moar depleted uranium and white phosphorus can fix this. /s
under cover of "democracy" the US destroys other countries for its resources, a relic of the empire days gone by.
Pax Americana. Chaos and death.
At least some past empires produced brief periods of peace and order while ruling the world
“Five days or five months, but it certainly isn’t going to last longer.” - Donald Rumsfeld, Lying SOB neocon asshole who sent your kids off to die.
Rumsfeld. Just another self-serving, self-righteous asshole, willing to be the Useful Tool for Ziocons, the MIC and the banksters.
Never forget that Prostitution and Politics are the two oldest professions -- and that it is more of a question of Price, not Principles, that the Parties are 'negotiating'.
Fuck Iraq and there little dog too, those people deserve what ever they get. They sure don't want peace. All those rag heads want to do is kill each other over some preacher. Fucking morons.
Fuck you. We have no right to conquer another nation, regardless of what you think of them.
roadhazard = roadkill.
A braindead cocksucker who pollutes these threads spewing his Neocon propaganda.
kma, dirtbag. neocon= lol.. you don't know shit, son.
I was against the war from day one. When the US left things were calm there. It lasted longer than I thought it would. They could have made it work but decided to kill each other. Ragheads will be ragheads. Fuck'm and you too.
Well, you are consistent roadkill. Consistently wrong about US foreign policy anyway. The US left Iraq "calm"? Laughable and ignorant as well.
Maybe try the Yahoo boards? More your speed since you can't seem to grasp the most simple facts presented here at ZH.
Whine on, son. It fits you.
Fuck the handful of spoiled and insouciant cunts who thought it was a good idea to kill their country, and then cry about it later on, while the number of people in Iraq who miss Saddam's rule go up and up - no doubt thanks to the freedom and democracy we brought them http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2015/03/31/261591/nostalgia-for-iraqs-saddam-...
Whose "country"? There never has been and never will be an "Iraq," which was a fictional nation state erroneously recognized as sovereign by marginal international dictatorship club talking shops such as the UN, the League of Nations and such.
Balkanization was always the goal, so that "Mission Accomplished" banner was accurate after all.
"Regional sectarian conflict was an unintended consequence of the Iraq War..."
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
This story is so full of bullshit it is not even funny.
ISIS is Langley and Glilot Junction.
The banksters need to repay us.
The world of treason was lonely with out Al Qaeda and Bin, so they, from their treasury of stolen loot and armory created ISIS. Now they have a friend to play treason and steal with. And a boogeyman and patsy to lay off blame for their bombings, killings, looting, and maiming.
and let's not forget ISIS's bastard stepchild...the Khorason group...
The CIA may be actually now be the most transparent agency in the entire Federal government.
Syria is finished, Libya is finished, Yemen is finished. Next up please.
So says another statist loving dickhead who seems to take great pleasure and delight in other peoples sufferings.
Get fucked asshole.
Go fuck yourself you loser.
Medal of freedom, Paul Bremer. Take a bow.
"Heck of a job, Bremer,heck of a job." ~ BuchCo.
How else is one going to fight a 50 year war. Its a growth industry.
My friend took me to a Turkish market/deli last night and the people were, as expected, quality. She is as sweet as a southern belle. Idiots that use generalizations and raghead terms are just basement dwellers that enjoy worthless violence as long as it is a world away. You are no more of a patriot then the garbage government traitors. If knowing what is going on over there doesnt give you a lump in the throat then you could use a lump on the head.
sorry mike
i understand the filthy turk
he is a pirate an anal rapist
israel cannot run the biggest live organ trafficking industry in the world without the treacherous fucking turk as meat wrangler
syria would still have ancient history if it was not for the filthy zionist stooge erdogan
the turk can go rot along with his zionist chums in tel aviv
erdogan= the gov, not his people.
Bush41 fucked-up big time - Iran pushing US dick up its ass
failure
really
what does tel aviv think.
the script worked out well
who built hollywood
who understands magick
understand story arc and structure
who casts spells of tallmoo
these saturn satan projects are designed for failure
oded yinon baby
depleted uranium
hit me baby one more time
already
if i was a rich man
yabba dabba dabba dabba dabba dar.
all day long i would dump that radium
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DJ--Z3lvaQ
The powers that be brag about it .. in fact they told people about invading 7 countries in five years.. they are behind schedule .. but the same people responsible for Balkans FUBAR the neocon PNAC crowd .. still want war without end to bring [democracy and central banking to the worlds great unswahsd.Wesley Clark discussed the reasons for ME wars without end . was against it . before he was for it.. typical .. he is even more or war or poking Russia in the eye . now one of the [boys' of the 'Atlantic Council .. super hot house of elite policy making ... . in any event ..
Wesley Clark, the former general who led NATO forces during the Kosovo campaign, revealed on Monday, September 22, that the Bush administration had set-up a five-year plan to invade seven Muslim countries after the 9/11 attacks, beginning with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia, and finally Sudan.
In his book "The Clark Critique" excerpts of which were published by Newsweek edition, the four-star retired general wrote that following the September attacks, the U.S. administration became preoccupied with the idea of "state sponsorship" and "draining the swamp" of terrorism.
"In the aftermath of the attacks of September 11, many in the Bush administration seemed most focused on a prospective move against Iraq. This was the old idea of state sponsorship-even though there was no evidence of Iraqi sponsorship of 9/11 whatsoever," the anti-Iraqi war Democrat said.
"But there was more. This was being discussed as part of a five-year campaign plan and there were a total of seven countries, beginning with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia, and Sudan."
The Vietnam veteran said that Washington saw that it would be effective to attack a state than "to chase after individuals, nebulous organizations, and shadowy associations."
"…For this was not something I wanted to hear. And it was not something I wanted to see moving forward, either," he said.
all part fo the plan.
Got about half an hour to kill?
>>>>
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=western_support_for_islamic_militancy_2049
http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&geopolitics_and_9/11=israel
http://mycatbirdseat.com/2013/06/the-machiavelian-threefold-game-of-the-neoconservatives/
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2004/01/lie-factory
This should shed quite a bit a light, if you still believe Fox and CNN are giving you the 'news.'
A while back I was interested in what the headlines were on the day I was born. One of them was "The US is funding groups inside Iraq to help topple the opressive dictator ...."
I am now 61 years old. The 100 years war continues.
"I went out for Italian food. There was a lot of shouting and we all got soaked"
Sounds like a typical night out in New York.
We Iraq'd some folks.
Bush/Obama/... : I wracked some folks.
Definition of a Foreign Policy Failure:
- invade
- Destroy all infrastructure (except for Oil Ministry and wells/pipelines)
- Foment civil war (blow up Sunni mosques on odd days, Shiite on evens)
- Sit back and watch domestic industry grind to a halt
- Millions of barrels of Oil that would be used domestically stay in the ground
Failure?
For the last time, why do people who know that their Government doesn't give a rat's ass about them somehow believe that same Government would fly to the other side of the world and spend Billions of dollars to help other people because they care?
But, but, but...what of Joe Biden's outlook???
“The jury’s still out, that’s the truth. It’s not over yet,” Biden said of the situation in Iraq. “But the momentum is in the right direction.”
http://www.defenseone.com/threats/2015/04/biden-iraqs-momentum-right-direction/109780/?oref=d-river
Uday and Qusay are back, and badder than ever!
I keep trying to imagine an analogy to these occupational interventions in the Middle East. The best I have come up with so far is a bunch of Arabs coming to America on camel back, rattling their sabers, and taking sides in the middle of our Civil War, saying they’re here to keep the peace while shipping boatloads of wheat and water back home. I bet both Grant and Lee would have agreed on that being a WTF moment.
Just look around America and its'run down Cities if you want to see a failed State.East St.Louis,Detroit,the list goes on.Why is this the way the United States Government treats its' own people?You didn't even need a bomb,corrupt politicians did it for you and sent away all the jobs to China where they work forvery cheap wages.They don't care about you.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/detroitderek/sets/72157601861458499/
https://www.google.ca/search?q=pictures+of+east+st+louis&espv=2&biw=1301...
Iraq is farm from finished. The US has only paved the way for the Russians, Chinese and Iranians to come in with loans, technical expertise, business and this little thing called 'humanity'.
Strange but true.
If anyone is finished, I think it is the US.
Don't fall for "The Atlantic" propaganda.