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China Made Military History Three Times Last Week
Last week, a group of initially unidentified foreign troops disembarked in the Yemeni port city of Aden which is currently under siege by Iran-backed Rebels seeking to capture one of the last remaining major holdouts still controlled by fighters loyal to President Hadi. When the mystery soldiers arrived, the media made the somewhat logical assumption that a Saudi-led ground incursion had indeed begun. Surprisingly, the soldiers turned out to be Chinese and were in Yemen to ensure the safety of more than 200 civilians evacuating the city in an “unprecedented” move that at least according to one Chinese professor, makes China “look really good.” Here’s Reuters:
A Chinese naval frigate evacuated 225 foreign citizens from strife-torn Yemen, its foreign ministry said, marking the first time that China's military has helped other countries evacuate their people during an international crisis.
Ten different nationalities were among the evacuees picked up on Thursday afternoon from Aden, Yemen's second city, and transported to Djibouti, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a statement on its website late Thursday.
A diplomatic source familiar with the operation said it was "very risky" and that fighting had come close to the Chinese warship.
"The Chinese ship was in the right place at the right time," the source said.
The broadcaster showed footage young children stepping off a Chinese warship waving Chinese flags, and in one case, kissing a seaman on the cheek.
The evacuation of foreigners bolsters China's image at home and abroad, according to Shen Dingli, an international relations professor at Fudan University in Shanghai.
"We wouldn't look very good if we have the capacity to help others but no heart to do it," Shen said.
"Now we look really good," he added.
This was a history-making moment for the Chinese and as FT reports, it wasn’t the only time Beijing made military history last week:
China’s military made history practically every day last week. On Thursday it was the Lin Yi, a guided missile frigate, which spent 75 minutes moored in war-torn Yemen’s port of Aden before setting off to Djibouti with 225 evacuees.
Billed by Beijing as the navy’s first international maritime rescue evacuation, the mission helps show the rising ambitions of the People’s Liberation Army.
A few days earlier, state television showed a satellite photo of three submarines anchored at a top-secret base on China’s southern island of Hainan. The report identified them as the navy’s most advanced Type-093G nuclear powered attack submarines, which experts say will start China’s first patrol by nuclear powered subs later this year.
And to top off a busy week, Pakistan agreed “in principle” to buy eight Chinese submarines in a deal that could be worth up to $5bn — the most lucrative Chinese arms contract ever.
China also announced last month that it is building a second aircraft carrier and that its defence spending would rise this year by 10.1 per cent, marking 27 years of double-digit or near double-digit increases. Over the past five years, China’s arms exports have grown by 143 per cent, making it the world’s third-largest arms trader, according to a new study by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (Sipri).
The increase in defense spending has some, not the least of which are Tokyo and Washington, uneasy, especially when The White House’s western allies aren’t spending on the military the way the US thinks they should be in the face of Russian “aggression” and China’s rising superpower status. But as FT notes, there’s a difference between building up the military and “militarizing” and it may be that China’s maneuvers need to be placed in the context of the country’s overall economic growth.
But measured another way, as a part of the overall economy, China’s military spending starts to look more normal. For all the talk of trophy armaments and aggressive rhetoric from Beijing, military expenditures are small by international standards if measured as a percentage of GDP. In fact, if militarisation means increasing the role of the armed forces relative to wider society, China’s military spending is actually less than many of its neighbours as a percentage of GDP.
“We focus so much on what the PLA wants and what the PLA will do, it’s easy to lose focus on what the PLA is actually doing,” says Jack Midgley, director of the strategy consulting practice at Deloitte in Tokyo. “When people say China is engaging in an aggressive military build-up, the numbers tell a different story.”
Defence should be seen as a component of China’s overall economic development, he says.
“There is more of everything in China now, there are more cellphones, there’s more air pollution, there are more babies [and] there are also more tanks and one more aircraft carrier.”
* * *
Whatever Beijing's true military ambitions may be, one thing that is clear is that between China's efforts to rewrite the global economic order via the establishment of multilateral institutions designed to supplant (or at least to complement) the multinational funds that have for decades presided over the global economy in the post World War II dollar-dominated world and now with the country looking to establish a larger presence for its military on the world stage (whether for humanitarian purposes or otherwise), the global power balance is most certainly shifting due east.
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... There is more of everything in China now.
Of course there is. They make everything !
and now... more stock market too... very cheap, just for you, special deal...
Hang Seng up 1.6% so far...
.. looks like gold and silver about to be taken out to the woodshed ...
China understands that the USSA's 'pivot to Asia' is nothing more than a plan to dominate and control China. The Chinese have watched the USSA try to overthrow the Russian government via a failed color revolution triggered by the Murder of Nemstov, attack on the Ruble, forcing a sanctions regime (in itself an act of war), trying to lure Russia into the Ukrainian Civil War etc.
lol USA aint doing than anymore than China cares if they're doing that
both China and USA just stirring up symbolic conflicts that mean jack shit in practice to distract from domestic issues
no Chinese or American blood will spill over any of this shit
Time to learn Mandarin.
why would I do that when the chinese have already spent all their time learning English
The British Empire worked long and hard to conquer India and China by hooking them on opium. Now the rest of the world is hooked on cheap Chinese goods... and not only on the products themselves, but on exported pollution.
If you thought fracking water was bad, wait till you start making plastic and processing rare earth elements to make batteries for your goddamn iPhones.
I blame the MBAs who sell us out at every opportunity, and would shoot their mothers to keep their trigger finger supple. Can we replace them with a computer program yet? Something that allows blue collar folk to form employee owned businesses with no need to "make oneself attractive to the investors" with a little too much rouge?
" "We wouldn't look very good if we have the capacity to help others but no heart to do it," Shen said. "
When asked to comment about this statement, the first Muslim Commander In Chief replied, "Shut up! Can't you see I'm trying to tee off here?"
They were even making parts of the US military uniforms.
I'm making over $7k a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life. This is what I do... www.globe-report.com
JUST STFU WITH YOUR SCAMS YOU POS.
chinese propaganda piece is propaganda
the usa military was too busy achieving world peace and widepread economic prosperity. /sarcasm
Youd forgot "modernizing democracies" through the Clinton foundation and the CFR.
Sorry, your country requires the latest version of democracy to properly display the Western imperialist content. If democracy does not auto-install in 5 seconds click the following link to receive a free leadership update. Sign up for a premium version by registering with the IMF or any of its banking affiliates.
the US Military gets more of what every military in the world craves more than anything....more than the latest weaponry, the juicy funding priorities, whatever. committ this acronym to memory, LFTE, stands for "live fire training exercise"....we get more than all the rest put together.
The build up is not for defense.
You know what I mean?
Kings of the East on the move.
"The build up is not for defense."
Sure it is... the BEST defence is always a good offence. Come to think of it a pre-emptive defensive attack is even better...
"The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East." - Revelation 16:12
But the Euphrates hasn't dried up yet. California has, however. Maybe they're going to invade California! What wonderful news! I hope they do and put everyone there into FoxConn work camps. Then I won't have to wait so long before my iObject release and when it lands in my hand.
In Biblical prophecy, "waters", "sea", "river", etc are a metaphor- meaning peoples, nations tribes, etc.
So this verse refers to a nation or people that were previously "in the way" of an invasion before the "waters dried up."
For example "Then the angel said to me, “The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages." - Revelation 17:15
"Euphrates" is a metaphor for the countries in that area- especially Iraq (a river), which has been "dried up" in that is has been shattered, into many small streams (tribes/disparate entities) - to make way for Kings from the East.
What King(s) lie to the East?
first of all, there is no god
second of all, revelation is raving lunacy and proof that LSD used to routinely get into the grain supplies
"The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good." - Psalm 14:1
quotes from fiction prove nothing of fact - me
CHina an afford to send 200 million men Rev 9:16
May want to try sending them off to fight with the basics first:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-07/let-them-eat-pickles-chinese-so...
China's a paper tiger. It would take decades to build a blue-water navy. The CCP is losing its grip and when the economy implodes, the generals are going to fight each other to see who gets to be the new dictator.
Wrong on all counts.
I would say chinese history proves him more than right... the outcome he outlines is much more likely
Yup daddy yankee . Plethora of ignorance in lala land
'seaman on the cheek'
good times...
China '"Now we look really good," he added."'
NWO drone them Blankfein look really Bad.
Let them eat pickles............
Or an 8-course dinner (1 pickle with a 7up).
now i know how the russians felt when the usa was the nation who was first responded to natural and manmade disaster with humanitarian aid to evacuation.
those fucking slanty eyed, inscrutable, gooks think they are exceptional, uppity little chinks. well, it is a fact westerners have bigger dicks.
someone sounds jealous of the chinese.....
they're moving up the foodchain and they're gonna take over...DEAL WITH IT.
... just as soon as they get up from wiping their ass at the side of the road
Oh oblivious spook US evacuated its citizens first ? what a genius! US has abandoned its citizen in Yemen .http://russia-insider.com/en/usa-abandons-its-citizens-yemen/5467
But don't let the facts troll ya
Boo!
just wait till all the factories make arms.... wow..
then we'll really have 'em... cheap plastic junk that barely lasts a year and falls apart if you look at it sideways... perfect, bring 'em on
For the record..that chinese plastic crap. .is only made by chinese..not designed. They are made exactly to spec. So theres that.
Secondly..this story is lame. Who are these 'experts' and 'insiders?
Grate. Soon the Chinese will be paying for all the crimes against humanity we are. We're off the hook! Ooh. Rah.
Perfect time for Obama to practice this Chinese phrase
W? tóuxiáng "I surrender" - Just to show he's nobody's Neocon
Yes, but do they allow transvestites in their Army? That's the mark of a truly advanced military power.
"...state television showed a satellite photo of three submarines anchored at a top-secret base on China’s southern island of Hainan."
"Top-secret base on... island of Hainan". Is that like "Look, it's James Bond! The most famous secret agent in the world!"?
LOL.
China & Russia should start helping people to have a good image in world theater as saviors, while America & its puppies Europeans (et al) are shooting, booting & looting the vulnerable countries.
they are doing it, though it will be harder for Russia in the West. But Russia already has a very good image in most non-Western countries anyway. And BTW Russians evacuated foreign nationals from Yemen as well:-) In fact the one who did not evacuate even its own citizens from Yemen was the USA.
We can thank 0bama and his scumbag administration for sinking America. Americans will pay dearly for electing that marxist muslim homo. Twice.
Obama is powerless you dumb cunt America has been sunk by its immoral MIC and Neocon power base kinda nebulous but epitomised by ZEbigknees Brazezku or whatever the fuck his name is and Dickface Cheney
Complete bullshit!
Which 'experts' would these be, exactly?
The whole proposition is so completely ludicrous I hardly know where to start with this utter garbage, being mindlessly repeated by zh - another recurring theme these days.
Anyway, let's clear up the basic historic known facts, for the sake of the extremely gullible readership and blogger-ers in here (who should know a hell of a lot better ... by now):
Then the second class was a dedicated ballistic missile boat:
Then the slow gestation of a more advanced ...
So ... ! ... we're to just believe that some "experts" somewhere have asserted that the prior classes of Chinese nuclear-armed and nuclear powered submarines, never went on a patrol since 1974? It has been 41 years after the PLAN began operating SSNs and 28 years since it began operating an SSBN type, but not even one nuclear-armed patrol from any of these nuclear attack subs, in that time? Huh?
Just where the hell do you think the DF-21 missile came from?
The DF21 is just a land based version of the already existing submarine launched designed JL-1, at sea aboard the Golf Class SSB, and then the Type 92 SSBN from the early to mid 1980s.
The Chinese PLAN nuclear attack subs were routinely patroling and targeting western cities and bases with nukes for at least five years prior to the cold war's end.
But suddenly we're told by the echo-chamber of bullshittery that nuclear attack capable Chinese nuclear submarines going on patrol is a "history-making" phenomena?!
Seriously, zero hedge, do you really want to keep spreading easily refutable bullshit to the readership? Is that the audience you wish to garner?
ZH made almost the same sort of 'historic' insinuation in February this year, when it claimed that Russian road mobile Tupol-M missiles were going on "nuclear combat patrol". Insinuating that this was new. The fact is that system is on-road and off-road mobile, and routinely moves about to frustrate targeting confidence.
And Russian nuclear attack capable SSNs, SSGNs and SSBNs have also been on routine patrols in the worlds oceans during the past decade. As have all other western navy's nuclear-capable attack boats.
I called it non-historic bullshit then too:
All this vapid deluded and false talk about 'historic' nuclear combat patroling is a fair amount of hysterical, and not historical 'stuff' ... and a recurrent theme of fawning to echo-chamber feeds of rank propagandists and hopeless liars looking for effects among dimwits silly enough to buy into it.
If you want some real historic news the USN has been targeting Russian and Chinese cities and military bases with nuclear IRBM capable SSBNs since 1960 and was operating 3 new SSBNs during the Cuban missile crisis and at least one of them was within range of Moscow during that entire period.
They had the Russians cold ... and didn't fire.
0.5/10
Edit: oh yeah, I forgot this pearl: "... state television showed a satellite photo of three submarines anchored at a top-secret base on China’s southern island of Hainan...." It was so fucking super-duper top-secret that it was on TV!
Get a grip Tylers.
" If you want real historic.......didnt fire "
can you share your source ? thnx .
From: Chief of Naval Operations Submarine Warfare Division Submarine Chronology
December 1959 USS George Washington (SSBN-598), the first of the "41 for Freedom" Fleet Ballistic Missile (FBM) submarines, is commissioned.
July 9, 1961 USS Robert E. Lee (SSBN-601) sets a new continuous underwater patrol record of more than 68 days.
November 8, 1962 USS Ethan Allen (SSBN-608) sets a missile record by firing six Polaris A-2 missiles with a range of 1,500 miles.
Oct 7th 1962 to Nov 22 1962 - Cuban Missile Crisis
[i.e. the first USN nuclear armed SSBN patrol ocurred in Nov 1960]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skipjack-class_submarine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSBN
The deployment times and position details are found within some of the other Cuban missile crisis docs that I have. I made several lengthy posts about the whole topic in zh about 2.5 years ago, to debunk many of the myths and misconceptions about it, and in one of those posts I gave specifics on timing and deployment areas the 3 fully operational US Polaris Missile SSBNs during the crisis period.
Contrary to many people's misguided beliefs about the topic, and how it developed and was resolved, the Polaris missile boats arrived two years prior the Cuban missile crisis, and not 18 months after it.
Unfortunately Krushchev did not know the US had an SSBN fleet that was already fully operational and patrolling the arctic at the time of the crisis, or that Moscow was wide open to attack at any time with zero warning.
I'll see if I can find the specific reference but it may take awhile to dig it out again, No promises, I have many docs on the topic and not a lot of interest in looking at them once more.
What evidence do you have Krushchev did not know the US had an operational SSBN fleet? I mean, it was all over the newsreels at the time.
If you have clear evidence of unclassified newsreels that were publicly displayed prior to Nov 1962, please provide it, I'd love to see them.
The Russians instead made a song and dance about (now) redundant obsolete Jupiter missiles in Turkey. They did not mention the Polaris SSBNs anywhere prior to Nov 1962 as far as I'm aware. So why would they not mention them if as you suggest, they already knew these horrendously threatening weapons were patrolling every day within striking range of Moscow? A system which could eliminate Moscow and the nerve center of the Soviet communist global revolution, in about 15 to 20 minutes? I've found nothing in print that suggests the Russian political machine, military or public were aware of the SSBN threat.
Not surprising as the first three SSBNs were kept a very close secret, for very obvious reasons. Plus satellite tech was in its infancy and the Russians had zero recon systems which could observe the US mainland activities from the air, plus the airspace and land around construction and testing sites were permanently restricted.
The US was not like the Soviets who felt a need to put everything in a parade as soon as they could do so to show it off as proof of communist science accomplishment and production.
The US instead tended to reveal systems only when it was undeniable and could no longer hidden. They did it with all their advanced ships, subs, aircraft and missiles. Still do it for many systems and platforms. From what I've read the first four years of Polaris program construction was effectively disguised as the building of SSNs, not SSBNs.
In fact US Intel agencies and navy went to extraordinary lengths to pretend they were building an SSN called the 'USS Scorpion'. Only after it was built did they rename it the USS George Washington and call it an SSBN, after it could no longer be successfully denied. Then the reused the name USS Scorpion for an actual new SSN which they built right along side the SSBN version of the same hull form. So they were hiding the SSBN construction by pretending that two subs being built were really just one SSN being built.
No one knew what was going on until much later.
Those were the sorts of games they were playing to hide the Polaris program and it appears the ruse was successful for several years, also because they built those two subs in the time they would have normally needed to build just one. then they repeated the trick with the next two, except this time both 'SSNs' were SSBNs.
Apparently it worked as the Russians showed no sign of realizing the program was already producing fully operational Polaris subs off the Russian coast from early 1961.
If you can prove otherwise please do, but don't mistake a newsreel showing USN SSNs to be SSBNs. They have completely different capabilities and roles, even if they came from the same hull design, which all the Skipjack-derived boats of that era did have in common. Which also helped hide the fact from the Russians that these were no longer SSNs, at all.
It took me a while to get back to my computer but there was no way I was not going to respond to your egg sucking ass....even if no one reads it.
You sound like a well researched version of my vietnam vet father, with his blind flag waving, kool aide gulping, "I wish Reagan was still President", because American can do no wrong ass.
I don't give a shit about the micro facts you know and have logged away in some file. The big picture tells all that needs to be known about what is real and what is bs. Good job on the facts though!
How many countries has China attacked in the last 50 years? Vietnam and Korea don't count because in that case they were defenders and not doing anything we wouldn't have done in Mexico and Canada had the roles been reversed. If Korea and Vietnam wanted to be commies it was none of our damn business. I didn't see us attacking Russia or China to "stop the dreaded spread of communism". Now after 56+ thousand deaths and years later, the US is commie central in the world, so we did a lot of good there didn't we? Dipshit! So take the Chinese agression and stick it up your ass.....sideways. They are the most populated country in the world and second largest economy. If I were them, I would have a nuke dedicated to the pentagon and tell the homo POS admirals, and generals in the pentagon they would be the first to get it if they started something.
The West has been the world agressors since the start of the Roman empire. The US is nothing more than an extension of the British Empire which in turn is an extension of the Roman Empire. A bunch of blue bloods who think the rest of the world is there servants and footstool. I couldn't give a crap about China one way or another. But call it like it is, you brainwashed idiot.
Now to the military build-up. The US spends more on military (world control) than the next 8 nations COMBINED! That includes GB, China, Russia, and Germany, you twit. Do I need to add anymore facts or statistics to prove my point......that you have missed the forrest for the trees? Didn't think so. Again, if I were in charge of China's military, you would see some "build-up" that would give the aggressive SOB's in DC a moment of pause.
My advise would be to quit drowning yourself in "trivia" and wake up to what is really happening in the world. Personally, I am of the opnion that the West is trying to infiltrate the Chicoms the way they have the US and suck the life out of them for the next 200 years by exploiting them the way they have the whole world. Believe it or not, you arrogant POS, there are some people in the world that just want to live and mind their own business. And just because the MIC wants to make a boogyman out of everyone on the planet, doesn't make it so. Go learn something meaningful.
Observations:
(1) You appear unable or unwilling to follow topics and unable to engage in counterpoint construction relevant to the topic, but prefer a good flapping tangential tirade.
(2) You knowingly choose to present no contrary evidence to facts presented but thoroughly enjoy a cathartic rant with a heathy level of abuse for punctuation.
Hey, don't we all! :D
But you don't give a bloke much to work with there Shirley. :D
So I can only suggest some factual readings on the Cultural Revolution, and how many of their own people they went to war with, plus falsely accused, tortured, oppressed, stole they homes and land, beat them up, starved them, exiled them, then murdered them in the tens of millions, generally for no clear reason.
Oh, the optometrist rang and said your new polarized rose-colored glasses are ready to be picked up.
Bless ya hun, you did try. :D
Hmmm i've read your wikipedia links . Ethan tested a warhead over south pacific becomes an attack on russia ?Funny .But it nowhere states it came too close to attack moscow or Kruschev didn't know about it (It's a hypthetical claim you're making on your own ) . I'm waiting for your further proof ( all those docs you said you've in your computer .) Moreover in the 1960's soviets had boomers off the coast of Hawaii and usa president had no idea about that either isn't ? Lol . The problem is, you will always have trouble hunting for boomers and in the end, one will always be capable of launching its weapons before being taken down Whatever helps you sleep coal shoveller no one can make you think .
No pal, I've already stated that I posted the details in zh approximately 2.5 years ago, within several detailed comments on the topic, and that era. It isn't conjecture as you'd like to pretend is the case.
And who said anything about USS Ethan Allen testing a single missile in the Pacific? The only reference I made was that boat was re the chronicled formal US history, which said 6 missiles were salvoed for the first time in a test during the middle of the Cuban missile crisis, specifically on Nov 8th 1962.
But you didn't check the link I provided for you already, did you? No, instead you went to the Wiki Link and read this:
But that test was 6 months earlier than the one I quoted to you from that link.
But thanks for doing that, as it better demonstrated that all three subs were capable of attacking and wiping out Moscow, for an even longer period than my initial quote had already demonstrated, so I must thank you for strengthening my case further, cheers.
But since you intend to nit-pick to pretend to make valid counterpoints as you distort or ignore facts and talk some more arse (per usual), let's get the facts a bit straighter.
(1) I've already shown that the USS George Washington began its first nuclear missile patrol in Nov 1960 with a full load of missiles.
(2) USS Robert E Lee began initial operation on Dec 2nd 1960, and conducted its first missiles test on 22 December 1960, and departed to Holy Loch, Scotland to join Submarine Sqn 14 for patrol duties on July 10th 1961.
(3) USS Ethan Allen was launched on Nov 22 1960 and already contained its Polaris A2 missiles as launched. It was commissioned on 8th August 1961. Its first missile launch was also a live-fire 600 kiloton warhead missile launch on 6th May 1962, and one of the US's last atmospheric nuclear tests. It then tested a further six round salvo shot on Nov 8th 1962, as per the link.
Here's a photo of the actual test cloud from an observer sub near that test.
Operation Dominic I: Frigate Bird thermonuclear test image:
600 kt and 2,200 yards accuracy, so no question Moscow would have been gone as these boats can carry 16 such missiles.
Ethan Allen was the first boat of the Polaris class built from a final design spec rather than an emergency development and crash-build program so was the one the Navy used to develop all the follow-on SSBNs. Hence it remained in extended testing and development, while the other two were on multi-crew constant patrols in northern European waters for all of the first four years of their operation.
So at any given time after about July 1961 there were two boast in European waters and at least one of the two available subs was patrolling within strike range of Moscow at any given time.
And you can bet your left bollock that as the alert level rose in October 1962, both of the boats were on patrol simultaneously, with 32 warheads ready to fly.
By about 1965 the numbers of missiles on patrol were high enough, and the RVs more developed and accurate enough that pre-emptive elimination of the core of the Soviet air and naval nuclear forces could have be realistically achieved in under 30 minutes.
__
As for Russian SSBNs not being detected or tracked, you are again radically wrong, they were routinely detected and tracked in detail each time they were in transit to their patrol station, and then invariably shadowed by an awaiting attack boat. I seriously recommend you do some reading to alleviate your amazing ignorance of just how badly the USN pwned the entire Russian submarine fleet, from the beginning of the cold war until its end. The sensors and processors today are of course way ahead, again, so no the Russian sub fleet is still completely pwned right now as well. Only worse.
It's amazing, you plainly have no clue about submarine warfare, its history and development, the sensors involved and their tactical operation, but still want to talk arse with me about submarine warfare! Not a good idea. :D
But if you disagree with what I have said, just show me any formal proof that Krushchev knew about the US Polaris boats being on patrol with full missile loads since Nov 1960 to Nov 1962, and I'll willingly concede that the Russians knew how exposed they were to pre-emptive wipeout for all of that time.
Until you can show otherwise you're talking arse and trying to deny documented historical fact, which is something I'll leave you to discuss with your therapist.
but Element, it doesn't make for good red meat propaganda to the home crowd if it isn't "historic" or "unprecedented"... you know the bullshit is flowing at full tap when those words are used in any puff piece...
to your point, the rest of the world can only dream of having the US' nuclear naval capability... no one comes close, NO ONE
Make good for Empire propaganda
It just happens to be true though.
You're yet to prove though .
The submarine deal won't be the largest one. Saudi Arabia bought some missles from China in 80s, 4.3 bn if I didn't remember wrong. Count in inflation, it's still the biggest deal PLA ever got.
Don't forget the best bit about the Chinese BM deal, it was mediated by the CIA with Washington's approval, and the Saudis demanded Washington insist to Israel that if the IAF bombed the missiles on Saudi territory it would result in a war against Israel (and by definition against Washington's forces and interests in the Gulf, as well).
So the Israeli's haven't attacked them, to this day, but the IDF did develop a range of heavy bunker-busting munitions to attack them with at a later date.
+1 Element for both comments, and... thanks
Not buying it.
China has a long history of provocative action designed to threaten core Western military capabilities in the pacific. From 2006:
So for openers the Chinese decided to lase at least one US military satellite in 2006, then in 2007 they hit one of their own expired satellites with a new SC-19 ASAT kinetic kill missile, similar to a USN SM3 in basic capabilities:
2007 Chinese anti-satellite missile test
Anti-satellite weapon - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A SC-19 ASAT missile with a kinetic kill warhead was tested in 2005, 2006, Jan 11, 2007, 2010 against low earth orbit satellites, but with no long-lived orbital debris, due to atmospheric proximity.
In 2010 two Chinese satellites demonstrated an ability to manoeuvre and ram into each other, but put a small charge on one and they can act like a mobile homing space mine.
On May 13th 2013 they tested a much more capable new missile designed to reach further out to kill satellites in geosynchronous orbits at 36,000 km altitude.
China then demonstrated a soft-kill solution, on July 23rd 2014:
So first they lased the US military satelites to get theor attention then over the next 8 years demonstrated 4 separate methods for attacking and disrupt and degrade US and allied capbilities.
The fact that China had been doing that, for most of ten years now, and expanding an already very large well developed cyber snooping and data theft effort, and is developing extensive sensor jamming capabilities, even as it told the USN it was not welcome in international waters near China, has lead to many western militaries doing things like this, to make such attacks mostly ineffective and incidental to standoff attack mission efectiveness and operations (and this has now been rapidly and very sucessfully implemented ... it works).
Beyond GPS: 5 Next-Generation Technologies for Positioning, Navigation & Timing (PNT) - July 24, 2014
If someone claims China is not being provocative or regionally aggressive or being a bully it's not believable for me, as I can cite dozens of fairly clear examples of the opposite. China is not the innocuous country it's politicans claim, its military is very confrontational and its foreign policies and actions in the Asian region are worrying all of its neighbours.
Indeed, despite the BS posted yesterday about Vietnam going all-in on Eurasian integration and rejecting Washingtona dn the west, the story was BS and the real picture is much more complex. Vietnam is very worried about a very large war developing over the South China Sea activities of China.
And this just yesterday:
And people at zh, and in Russia, and in China, ought take serious note of this, the US is not messing around with all this upity activity:
The more China acts in aggressive ways to upset it neighbours, the more it falls in the very situations it claims to not want to develop, and the more advanced weapons will be poured into SEA, Japan and Australia, as the US continues the pivot of 60% of forces.
the USA can pivot all they want, but they are loosing economically and that is more important. I already wrote it here somewhere that China is now everywhere, Chinese companies springing up in EU, brochures about beauties of China in European cafés already - a kind of Chinese PR for Europe and I can tell you that it is starting to work, because here in EU we are tired of the economic crisis and austerity and we are glad that China is building companies here for us to work in. The same goes for the entire South America and of course, Asia as well!! Asian countries are pulled irresistibly towards the Russia and China alliance, as well as South American countries. The economic integration of Asia continues and wont be stopped. Russia's Eurasian Union and the Chinese Silk Road are being built in an amazing speed. And what does the USA do? Instead of competing economically, which it seems the USA is already incapable of, the USA will build up its military in Asia. That wont help the USA economy!!! That wont stop the growing economic might of China and integration of Asia. Unless something is done economically in the USA, the USA will continue to fall. For how long the USA will be able to build up its military, if its economy goes down the drain??? In say, ten years from now, the USA wont have enough money to counter China militarily at all. What then? Whose fault is it that the USA people are too stupid to take back their country and repair their economy??? The world cannot be ruled by a bankrupt power, that is reality, you need money for everything. And China can also very well collapse the US dollar and then all the might of the USA goes down the drain even faster. I would also be happier, if the USA led the world - but the USA of the Founding Fathers, not the USA ruled by the Federal Reserve. Sorry, but I still prefer China against the Federal Reserve and unless you silly Americans change that - more and more people will prefer China. We need to work, we need to eat. The USA ruled by the FED does not provide either anymore.
What makes you think anyone is trying to stop it? Even the Chinese Premier said after the G20 in Australia in Nov last year that if we don't both win, we will both lose.
There won't be any winner if it is stopped, or if East tries to win over West, or west tried to win over east.
So no one is trying to stop it. The integration of Asia really began with unexpected trade linkages between Australia and Japan in the 1960s, then Australia and China and Korea there after, and was followed with the rise of Asian Tiger economies in SEA post the 1970s. Then ASEAN developed and finally APEC in the mid 1990s, which was another Australian Govt diplomatic and economic initiative that luinked the entire region. Then World Trade rounds and bilateral free trade agreements, going in every possible direction.
So the Chinese know we are not interested in "stopping it" (as you put it), nor in stopping them, but international law is going to be applied to China's territorial disputes - one way or another.
But none of that that changes the fact that the same sorts of relations existed between Germany Japan and other developed trading economies and regions prior to WWII. But as we saw then, Strategic concerns ALWAYS RAPIDLY TRUMP ECONOMIC CONSIDERATIONS IN ARMED CONFLICTS.
Just look at the sanctions on Russia today! Who would have predicted that occurring, 3 years ago? Or the present tendency to economic and geopolitical divorce that was imparted?
Which is why strategic developments always override economic developments and influences and connectivity.
Countries, Govts and businesses that forget this reality do so at their grave peril. Economic links can be broken and reversed overnight, but firmly based strategic linkages and alliances rarely disappear that fast and almost never are eroded much by countervailing trade linkages.
It's a mistake many people and businesses and even whole countries have made.
Pax Americana is now being overtaken right in front of our eyes.
We are in a scenario similar to the 1930s....
Will our western leaders in five years time, from the US and the EU, go to Beijing to bring back "peace for our times" from a resurgent China, like Chamberlain and Daladier in 1938 ?
falak, the more I look at the young 21st Century, the more I see the 19th Century, not the 20th
Africa? a repeat of the Scramble_for_Africa. with China as the newcomer
Afghanistan? a repeat of The_Great_Game. with German troops at the Hindokush, among many things
I could go on and on and on...
There is a lot of 'messaging' going on these days Ghordi, most of it unseen by the public, but enough is appearing to paint the general picture:
They are not going to give way to China.
The US is in the process of improving military links with Taiwan to a degree I've found surprising. What far too many people in this place discount is the US elite are completely serious about agile strategic manoeuvrings to remain a superpower past 2100. They did not do all this strategic placing to just let it go at the first challenge. They don't see themselves as options-limited. They're players and players keep playing because they see no reason or point to stopping. No country in their position will stop, they went to the moon 46 years ago, and no one has gotten close since. The Russians knew they were beaten so didn't even want to risk the possibility of failing with everyone watching.
So instead I presume an actual challenger to the US will simply make them refocus, become hungry and concerted to demonstrate that capacity again, to revel in intimidating and beating the challenger. I can't think of a time their national 'ego' hasn't reveled in playing that role. No way is that player going to pass it up, just because China wants to play now too.
Nah, the US are going to drive Beijing batshit crazy with frustration instead.
+1 "The US is in the process of improving military links with Taiwan to a degree I've found surprising"
well, do you remember when Taiwan asked Dubyia for diesel-electric subs? he agreed, came back home and failed spectacularly... because the US "sub smiths" refused to go back to this long-not-used technology
but I do agree with your assessment. hell, even the previous "Ruler of The Waves", Mighty Britannia, did not "let go lightly", and at the end found an... arrangement
but you know what? we Europeans, you Down There, them Russians and Chinese... we have all a more or less similar views on the various options open, imho. or the speed in which you can expect serious geostrategic changes. or how much all this can change
"... we have all a more or less similar views on the various options open, imho."
Yeah, agree, so the question is who not only can stack the best advantages their way? But already has done that and is continuing to do so in every area, better than the other guys can (so far), due primarily to geography, resources, technology and alliance linkage.
That's what makes the difference and also why the STRATEGIC status-quo is the situation the US values or prioritizes even more than economy. If you can maintain most of the strategic framework even in economic troubles you can bounce back far easier and sooner. But you have to be the meanest beweaponed guy out there, to make that stick. If you look at the most recent US naval priorities and operational thinking they have consciously decided to put the most astonishing conventional weapons, sensors and comms on everything they have that floats, between now and 2020. Allied navies are taking note and beginning to do the same.
Well ... last time you can find something like that occurring we were already a year or two into WWII. So this seems to be an effort to scare the other guy out of trying anything in the uncertain period ahead. I expect the number of actual weapons and firepower to dramatically increase, especially in this part of the world.
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Britannia hung around for decades after the economy and finances were no longer there for it because in 1946 they still had the best strategic linkage, the the best technologies, like the best jet propulsion and first commercial jet airliner, plus coal, then North Sea oil. As you hinted, the military adventure of Suez induced currency collapse to finally put Britannia in the closet.
You are right in that Kissinger played at Metternich. So Pax Americana was born like Pax Britannica.
But my point is we are beyond the great scramble for Africa. We are in tipping moments (since Lehman cataclysm of US's global capitalism mix) like the beginning of the 20 th.
When Pax Britannica, which began in 1815; thanks to Metternich/Castlereagh Vienna deal and Waterloo confirmation; laid the path for industrial and imperial resurgence of "Britannia rules the waves" based on Opium plays and treaty making and breaking in India, great game in Iran/Afghan etc. etc. etc. it seemed the sun would never set on this commercial and imperial nation which taught the world how to drink tea and play cricket!
Just like the US of our last fifty years with Coke and Baseball or Olympics !
The feeling I get today, as all the signs of a Pax Americana geopolitical crumbling rumblings now hit Europe and Japan as well Brasil and Turkey, is like what happened in Vienna around 1890-1900; when Metternich's legacy died for Austria and it was Germany and Britain who were left to fight it out like towering giants for a world colonial order.
A great novel to understand the awesome rapidity of how that tipping moment occurred and brought about the European demise is given in Stefan Zweig's superb autobiography : The World of Yesterday.
You are still in the age of Pax Britannica's golden age looking backwards, whereas I am looking ahead to what could be the next stage. And I feel the jittery glitter of Zweig's incredible pathetic poetry.
One very poignant fact that Zweig highlights is that his generation got hit hard without knowing why the world went "mad" so fast. They went from an age of "ageless" security and progress to dystopia in 10-15 years !
I think the Millenials will feel the same way in first world of whats now happening in Greece etc.etc.etc.
Can you see an end to that dark tunnel ? Not in the mindset of our leaders of "free world" !
+1, falak. nevertheless, history does not repeat itself, it just... rhymes
I remember 1984. I proudly declared the Soviet Union as a "dying empire" that was going to break up. Nevertheless... 1989 was way earlier then I expected
but one big caveat: the Pax Americana of 1946 to 1971 was a different beast from that of 1971 to 2001, and again a different one from the "with us or against us" of the Bush The Younger Age
so it is entirely possible, imho, that we see a different, but similar beast in action for the next thirty years
"if we knew the future, we would have no fate. with no fate, we would cease to be human". Ghordius, 2015, paraphrased from the wisdom of the Ancient Greeks
Lol, well said.
Nobody knows the future and we all mix hope and skepticism.
Lets hope in this day and age our world doesn't run into a Kaiser Wilhem and/or a Hitler, to make 20 th century history be repeated in this one !
The last phrase in Zweig's pessimistic autobiography says it all : Every shadow, in the final instant, is also daughter of light and only he that has known both light and darkness, war and peace, greatness and servitude, has truly lived.
The greeks knew it all thats why they created Ulysses in voyage and Nectar of the gods!
Wow, an intelligent thread.
thanks.
It seems there is a Hitler though.
Cleverly re arrainging the ME.
Awaiting the Popes blessing in his Sept blood moon visit.
Always helps to have a pope back you up.
China and Russia are not helpless in this.
Extra rope is being given out.
There will be blood.
Don't forget China's secret weapon.
Millions of citizens shitting on the side of the road.