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US Navy Sends Aircraft Carrier, Warships To Intercept Iranian Weapons Shipments In Yemeni Waters
Update: Because the report from AP does not play well with "Everyday Americans", US CentCom is denying:
- *U.S. DENIES REPORT SHIP SENT TO INTERCEPT IRAN VESSEL
- *U.S. SAYS SHIP SENT TO KEEP SHIPPING LANES IN REGION OPEN
The 'proxy' war is escalating very rapidly. As AP reports, Navy officials confirm that the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt is headed to Yemeni waters to intercept an Iranian weapons shipments. Just as we warned 10 days ago, the probability of a major escalation over the latest proxy Middle Eastern civil war escalated substantially when Iran parked two warships off the Yemeni coast.
As AP details,
U.S. Navy officials say the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt is steaming toward the waters off Yemen and will join other American ships prepared to intercept any Iranian vessels carrying weapons to the Houthi (HOO'-thee) rebels fighting in Yemen.
The U.S. Navy has been beefing up its presence in the Gulf of Aden and the southern Arabian Sea amid reports that a convoy of Iranian ships may be headed toward Yemen to arm the Houthis.
The Houthis are battling government-backed fighters in an effort to take control of the country.
There are about nine U.S. ships in the region, including cruisers and destroyers carrying teams that can board and search other vessels.
The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the ship movement on the record.
* * *
As the following Naval update map shows, the two Iran warships will now be located in the immediate vicinity of not only two US aircraft carriers, CVN-71 Teddy Roosevelt and CVN-70 Vinson, but well as the big-deck amphibious warship Iwo Jima which as reported before is providing marine support should the situation demand it.
All of this means the odds of a naval "accident" involving one or more warships in the Red Sea just went up substantially.
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goodbye everyone....
Keep paying on your Credit Cards, please.
Automated deductions via linked bank account can continue long after you are gone. Please take a moment to make sure everything is properly connected!
What we should make is a Credit Card artillery platform. You load it full of credit cards and it fires a salvo of credit cards into enemy territory. Come back in 2 years all the people are overweight, have diabetes, are blinged all out talking hive jivebilly and can't spell past a grade 3 level. The country capitulates because they are unable to roster an army of rage cops to deal with the overbearing free shit army..
Where are you going?
I can't wait for something exciting to happen. Do you guys think Iran will do a "freedom of navigation" exercise right through the hull of CVN71?
The legitimate free world (as opposed to the self proclaimed usa free world) would pop a nut if CVN71 went down with all hands on deck.
Rhymes with 9/11. Perfect excuse for another democracy-exporting binge.
At least 18 months from that false flag, the unemployment rate would tick down since they wouldn't be coming back from deployment with only cleaning & polishing skills.
The lesson here is: we support free trade only if Lockheed is selling.
Iran -has- been practicing how to sink a carrier. Remember the dummy aircraft carrier Iran constructed for use in training special Revolutionary Guard strike teams?
To quote: “American aircraft carriers are very big ammunition depots housing a lot of missiles, rockets, torpedoes and everything else," said Admiral Ali Fadavi, the naval commander of the Revolutionary Guard. He told state television that hitting a carrier with just one missile could trigger a “large secondary explosion”.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/11434660/Iran-...
I'd be surprised if a lot of advanced Russian hardware wasn't finding itself in Iranian hands on the d/l...
when ur a dying empire what else have u got to do...
be sure to vote....
Your vote mean nothing. They already elected the next US puppent who will run the nation. Only stupid Americans have their faith in a stupid vote.
Is it just me or did you miss the implied sarc?
How are things in Moscow?
You scare me dude - you are telling me the hildabeast is going to assume the presidency. She'd sell Chelsea (or the grandkids) for a buck and deliver them COD..
brace yourself.
A little like "Ghostbusters" - "choose the form of The Destructor"
Hitlery or "Mini-Mitt" Jeb . . . . . (not that there will be any significant policy differences of course!)
For the sake of our sailors let us hope Iran doesn't have any Exocet missles hanging about they are willing to use.
Exocet missles are obsolete, Yakhont P-800 is now in use.
NATO reporting codename SS-N-26 "Strobile"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-800_Oniks
It would be interesting to know how these missiles really stand up to the Close-In Weapons Systems (the automatic computer-guided turrets that fire 1000 rounds per minute to hit missiles within about 3 miles). The only tests i could find of the Phalanx CIWS, etc, were where they tow missiles by aircraft to be shot down by the CIWS. What a joke.
Google out "falklands/malvines islands war of 1982" and how agrentines used all of their whopping supply of 6 (six ) Excoset missiles against british royal navy. Read both argentine and british versions. You will be surpized.
$100K missile vs. $100MM warship -- guess I should have paid more attention to cost/benefit ratios in school.
Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out how ships are still afloat. At $100k per missile Laos can take control of the seas.
Missile porn baby!
The problem with these systems, is that once the rounds are fired, they become in effect unguided projectiles. The computing systems can at best "predict" target course, and correct for windage / drift, but that really is all. Once those rounds leave the barrel, their trajectory is pretty much fixed.
All these systems have a "target saturation limit" since their imaging / computing power is finite. The frontal (and glancing-angle) radar signature of all Russian antishipping missiles is well known (to the Russians), and so it would be but a very few hours work to design decoys with a similar or maybe identical frontal signature. As to the radar used in terminal approach (very short burst) - well this can again be duplicated (emission only) in a decoy - very compact R/C LiPo batteries are ideal for producing high power to solid state transmitters, for such short periods.
The fact that ALL the equipment / materials needed to produce such an "active decoy" are available to the R/C Hobbyist right NOW (right down to compact jet propulsion) should suggest that deployment of many such decoys would be a very highly cost-effective operation. That is before the understanding that the Yakhonts is known to follow a random path on approach (to deliberately reduce efficacy of "fire and forget" CIWS systems).
Finally, what about ammunition capacity? At 1000 rounds per minute, that's a LOT of ammo, and since the system is stand-alone, re-loading will be necessary (Phalanx has a standard capacity of 1550 rounds). Early assault with decoys, then follow up with the "real deal"?? There are many ways to defeat the system, and you may be certain Russia knows them all, in detail . . . .
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_Phalanx.htm
Americans are ammo intensive and have distinct problems if supplies are interrupted
Their speed notwithstanding, I'd still worry about the US countermeasures: Computer+Radar controlled Phallanx guns, and the Navy's new Laser guns. Which they are itching to try out in real combat.
If I were the Iranians (or anyone using a supersonic missile or torpedo), I'd still use Evasive Maneuver patterns -- even in Attack mode.
I'd also make Bandwith my friend, i.e. attack with more speed and numbers than the defense systems can handle. Just for grins, I'd be curious what would happen, if such an attack consisted of both ship-to-ship supersonic missiles, timed JIT with super-fast torpedos, i.e. attack above and below at the same time, such that they arrive at the same time. Quality x Quantity applies here.
Why should the Iranians restrict themselves to a symmetric response in the event of an act of war?
I thought the abstract version went something like- hit the enemy where they are weak, soft and relatively undefended in order to inflict maximum damage at minimum cost...
And the ship will know it's coming (and where from) as soon as it leaves the launch rail, maybe even before
They should rename them SS-N-26 "Trouble"
Coz they will make a trouble. A lot.
for the sake of our sailors, I hope there aren't any Israeli unterseeboots nearby.
The Iranians are not looking to get into it with the US Navy.
anymore than the US Navy wants to press its luck in the Black Sea.
Did the Iranians request our landing craft? Or did Oblama send them in gesture ¡
have no fear, dempseeee will send in the obunga flower crowd, to read poems to the I's, tell them they are not PC, print them 10 trillion from the fedster & then everything will be supper dupper
Ole Barry gonna earn that Noble yes siree.
When will the Iranians stop US warships from delivering arms to the Saudis? Seems a bit one sided to me. Furthermore, how do you expect this profitable conflict to continue unless you keep both sides well armed? Morons.
I hope that carrier gets sunk. Literally the worst president we've ever had. It was all Teddy's fault that Woodrow Wilson got elected. Blast his face off Mt. Rushmore as well.
The Iranians (and the Yeminis) couldn't sink it if they wanted to.
Iran is in possession of a variant of The VA-111 Shkval torpedo, courtesy of Russia.
And no balls to use it.
Like the balls required to drop American made bombs from American made fighter bombers, on schools and hospitals in Palestine... or do you mean something else?
I say what I mean, son. You can go into orbit with it all you want.
If usa attacks them they will have to .
Seems to be very little information on the capabilities of later developments of this weapon (it's a long time since 1995). A "Mk 2" variant is supposed to be in service ( "Shkval 2" - Current variant; believed to have additional guidance systems, possibly via the use of vectored thrust, and with much longer range. ) per Wikipedia, and it is "said" that the Mk 2 variant is faster (300kt / 560km/h) with an improved range ("maybe" up to 20nm).
Combine such an undersea "missile", with sea-skimmers, and hypersonic high - altitude descent weapons (e.g. a putative anti-shipping version of the Iskander - http://www.russiadefence.net/t75p15-iskander-e-ss-26-stone ) and shipboard anti - missile defences are really going to have their work cut out.
"Iran is in possession of a variant of The VA-111 Shkval torpedo, courtesy of Russia."
We have now graduated to include torpedo porn!! Doin' it baby!
well, you're an ignorant twat.
And I'd worry, literally, more about the Israelis than anyone else in that region.
Obama is contracting to put his face on Rushmore too.
Yep. Thanks for reminding us of the nefarious nature of the Rethuglican Roosevelt, who gifted the country with Woodrow Wilson.
Torpedo the ship and send in the bunker buster to destroy their underground nuke facility. Enough with the tease.
their civilian nuclear research facility they're allowed to have, built underground to protect from Zionist aggression, you mean?
How about no, and you go fuck yourself?
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/02/brief-history-netanyahu-cr...
http://www.balloon-juice.com/2015/03/24/israeli-getting-messy-out-there/
Torpedo the ship and send in the bunker buster to destroy their underground nuke facility. Enough with the tease.
The USA just has to get involved with everything doesn't it?
Iran won't be faulted if they have to shoot back in self defense as who gave the USA authority to take on another country's ships.
It can be avoided, get the hell out of some place that is not yours to defend.
If they want to ship arms to Yemen, they need to hide them among the Humanitarian Aid they need to send.
They also need to send escorts that will get between them and the US war ships - forcing the US to first take out the Iranian war ships, which would make it an unprovoked Act of War.
Don't think that the US would go that far for the Saudis, to risk everything. For the Israelis, yes. But not the Saudis. IMO.
I bet you 20 bitcoins ISIS ends up recovering a misplaced US aircraft carrier any minute now.
I'll raise you 20 bitcoins ISIS gets ginzu knife sponsorship any time now..
There ain't enough room for Both of US in this bathtub!!! Someone's gotta git the Fuck Out!
Any of them taking USA seriously? Why do I visualize them laughing at the USA military?
Ever hear of swarm? Time to start filling your shorts comrade...
Swarm of flies in your head .
The Iranians could do what the Brits and the US did prior to WW1: Use a commercial liner (with tons of passengers) as a decoy for arms transport.
In the modern version, they send Food & Medicine. With some G&A tucked away.
So...the US NAVY is selling Petrodollars door-to-door now?
lol
Yeah, under the new MLM marketing scheme :-)
The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the ship movement on the record.
but he feel the duty to people , so he spoke out- what a bullshit
Under what authority does the Navy stop other ships at sea? Are we at war with Iran or Yemen? Is this a blockade? I know nothing of maritime law.
Like the drone murders in various places, the USA has no authority. It is the bully in the schoolyard.
It is only a matter of time before a new Sheriff comes into the picture and shackles the bully.
That's what Ringo thought about Wyatt Erp, so bring it on cause I'm her huckleberry. you'll be a daisy if you do...
Ringo Starr, Wyatt Earp, Huck Finn, Daisy Duke, that's a lotta ground to cover in one post.
You know the thing about bullies is eventually all the little guys get tired of being bullied and ban together to take the bully down. I so can't waite for that day to come to the biggest bully on the planet!
no authority at all.
The US military stopped being about defending the United States long ago.
And between the "neoliberal" R2P idiots and the neocon/ziopath and Grand Chessboard realist warmongers - if you join the .mil you are a mercenary for the banks, MIC, and Israel.
period.
your fault for joining, at this stage. Sorry - but it is.
It's one thing to be okay with shelling 8 year olds in Afghanistan because "you're saving American lives"
its another not to have the fucking intelligence and decency to ask why those Americans are there, constantly killing Afghan civilians, by the way, in the first place.
We are still in afghanistan because someone is getting rich off it. The answer is LITHIUM http://bit.ly/1J3pLYm
Pat Tilman asked those questions . . .
bastiat, send this to ur bud that got the tdap vaccine & tell him to pause it at :53 in to check out the ingredients...
Mary Sherman's monkey.
https://youtu.be/ZWVZg9MWSb0
Can't discuss "on the recored" really means TOLD to talk "off the record". Love the spin they put on everything.
What a needlessly provocative thing for them to say?!??
<<...prepared to intercept any Iranian vessels carrying weapons to the Houthi (HOO'-thee) rebels fighting in Yemen.>>
It would have gone over better if they said something like "to make sure traffic runs smoothly in an orderly fashion."
So the US can park its ships anywhere, literally arm terrorists that cut off the heads of Christians and other religious and ethnic minorities, can literally fund coups in countries on Russia's border - can surround Iran with bases and act to sabotage what to date looks like solely a civilian nuclear energy research program, and support a puppet Yemeni government's efforts to kill more of its own people...
but if Iran sends arms - allegedly - this is some sort of conscience-shocking deviation from the standards and mores of modern nation states?
what sort of brain dead cunt could actually believe such a thing?
The Houthis are not wild eyed fanatics.
They're being *bombed* by the wild eyed fanatics.
I want to see the US Navy intercept a Chinese or Russian ship on the high seas and demand to inspect the cargo. That's when it gets interesting.
This is your kind of place.
Comin again to save the mothereffin day yeah....
Cue the Israeli sub...attack on a US vessel...and the *immediate* media firestorm blaming those dastardly Iranians - who pine for the end of the world, we are told, but keep doing stuff that looks a lot like planning for the future...
Fuck yeah!
Iran has been practicing sinking US carriers. Obozo still doesn't get it. They don't like you and come to think of it, neither do I.
some might say that given all the threats against it by the US and Israel - threats premised on the idea, STILL UNPROVEN, that they are working on having a nuclear bomb... practicing like that is common fucking sense defensive tactics.
moron.
By the way, unlike Israel, Iran hasn't actually killed US sailors on purpose.
Iran doesn't need a nuke to sink the US.
The other night I watched "We Were Soldiers". The N. Vietnamese general's line at the end stuck with me. Something to the effect of...
"They will think they won, and will now call it their war. Eventually, when the inevitable victory comes for us, there will be much more blood shed on both sides than was needed"
Moral: Unless the US military gets their asses handed to them right at the start and even high-ranking officers come back in body bags, the US is only encouraged to enter a prolonged war.
A "war", in which only lowly socio-economic grunts & refugees bleed and die, so that the sons of TPTB don't have to, and their lifestyles can be maintained. The elimination of the Draft took care of that.
When will WWIII be official? When a nuke is dropped?
When Hillary cuts the ribbon
Be ready. Go long magnetic, yellow, message ribbons while you can!!!
Lots (and lots, and lots) of Chinese investment and infrastructure spending in Iran. It's the creditors who make the rules, not the borrower, Washington idiots.
Are we sure this isn't just some Nixon mad dog play? I mean there's got to be an upper limit on how aggressively stupid a ruling oligarchy can be...
Things Go Better With Coke - nuke the Ayatollah
I don't think the US Navy is capable of proteting the LNG tankers docked at Ras Laffan.
We just want to join the Iranians in a charity golf tournament in Aden.
I bet Russia has some stealthies floating around somewhere very near!
Just fishing boats. Nothing else.
Except for the Russian Navy Task Force currently assigned to anti-piracy duty in the Gulf of Aden.
Just like this one ;-)
http://www.ipmsusa3.org/gallery/d/294372-2/Russian_Spy_Fishing_Trawler_Volga_Revell_H379_250.jpg
"Fishin' around . . . ." ;-)
The Pentagon thought enough of the report to deny it.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/pentagon-reports-false-of-iran-interce...
At some point the Muslim Nation will clue into this instigation, join forces & turn the wrath at the 'do-gooders!' Now that gonna be interesting!
The stage is set for a false flag a la the Gulf of Tonkin incident, bitchez! And just in time for the spring blood sacrifice to Baal.
I hope that Emilie Parker is not on board the carrier.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission.
And Gene Rosen on shore: "The sailors just washed up at my feet. They were crying. I hugged them, as that was all I could do--hug them."
If the Iranian supply ships sail without naval escort, then this is a "show", to be used for propaganda purposes, as the big bad USN proves it is the "bad ass bully".
If there are Iranian navy warships in the vicinity as the US navy begins to board (or worse to attack) the supply ships, a "showdown" (or worse, a battle) will ensue.
The Iranians would expect to lose, if a battle ensues. But, they "win" just for standing their ground (err, water, I guess). Should any damage come to the US Navy, the "victory" would be significant.
This is a thankless task for the US Navy, which will not come out looking good, regardless.
For all the target acquisition and intelligence that we are providing the Saudis, I would expect these Iranian ships to be attacked by the Saudi air force in or near whichever ports or points off shore from which the Iranians will attempt to deliver the weapons and ammunition.
Iran would stomp a new mudhole in the House of Saud in a fair fight between the two.
pretty good, imho:
The War on Yemen: Where Oil and Geopolitics Mix:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-war-on-yemen-where-oil-and-geopolitics-...
And for those who may have junked my comment up top...
Do you think the neocons, the Israeli 5th column, the mercenaries, the Hallburtons are the good guys?
Do you think they give a steaming fuck about you? Or America?
Think again, boys and girls.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/31/hersh-cheneys-office-cons_n_116...
Iran is not the fucking enemy. Even "Israel" per se isn't - but their government and their *sayanim* embedded in the .gov sure are.
To me it looks like our tough sanctions against Iran are working well...they have enough money to ship arms to many other people.....must be tough...Greece cant even do that
The ziomonsters will stop at nothing until Iran has a Rothschild central bank, Iran is turned to rubble and greater israel has moved out of the insane-plans-of-madmen column into reality.
well we can't have peace breaking out.
Iran Foreign Minister Urges Talks With West to Solve Crisis in Yemen
http://time.com/3828087/iran-peace-talks-yemen/
I guess I'll tune in to CNN to learn, at least, what *is not* really going on, but what they want you all to believe is....
Just follow Wulf Blitzerstein
in nov 2001 fox news reported that 60 israeli spies where arrested in new york and 120 in the rest of the states.
these israeli spies where trained in explosive ordinance ,military intel,electronic surveilance intercept were arrested in connection with the 911 event.
the report was hushed up the israelites sent home in secret
another day another false flag
all in the saturn satan dna
talmud the lock
goy blood the key
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QErILI5uRi4
"U.S. Navy officials say the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt is steaming toward the waters off Yemen and will join other American ships prepared to intercept any Iranian vessels carrying weapons to the Houthi (HOO'-thee) rebels fighting in Yemen."
Who said that hypocrisy can't be funny?
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission.
"Turn back. You have entered Zion's territorial waters. You cannot be permitted to interrupt the murders or plunder."
Dumbed-down goyim have to do Israel's bidding.
didn't the iranians just do some war games where they sunk ussa carriers
wasn't the roosevelt just 'sunk' in war games with the french.
this should be interesting.
Well all interesting and all that but what if these so called "arms" carriers were simply a ploy to lure a couple of large air craft carriers within striking range along with a few other ships of the western enemy and then detonate sinking everythingn within a certain range. Maybe the ships are loaded with explosives and a few suicide crew? I know I am thinking outside the box here but 9-11 sure triggers memories of just that type of thinking by some radicals. Pure simplicity to hurt your enemy who thinks it can't possibly be harmed.
I hope the tactical units of the States are thinking the same way. Do not underestimate your opponent.
Any idea of a carriers "striking" range? Didn't think so.
"U.S. DENIES REPORT SHIP SENT TO INTERCEPT IRAN VESSEL"
You only know something is true once it's been officially denied.
DOW is up 200+...who cares.
Centcom says one thing, AP says another.
Someone has a credibility problem, which one?
I don't trust either of them, not to the point I would let my children get slaughtered in some god forsaken hole somewhere. They would have to go through me first, call me traitor if you will but God and family comes before country in my book.
Nationalism/Patriotism is bullshit as is proved by events during the last century and before.
"The US speculation is probably warrantless at this point anyhow, as they previously were hysterical about two Iranian ships, one of them a destroyer, being deployed to the region on an anti-piracy operation, but those ships did exactly what they said they were doing, and never picked a fight with the Saudi navy."
http://news.antiwar.com/2015/04/17/us-claims-iranian-naval-convoy-near-y...
What you have to worry about is the neocons/Brookings types getting an easy chance to start a war. They'll certainly kill Americans to do it. As will their Israeli masters, of course.
Any DF-21's at the ready...?
Come on IRAN and SINK that USSofA MotherFucker. Get the show started and don't wait on these stinking False Flag merchant's of warmonger.
Houthi: Saudi Goal Is Occupation of Yemen
http://news.antiwar.com/2015/04/19/houthi-saudi-goal-is-occupation-of-ye...
Our Enemies, the Saudis - They’re invading Yemen to empower Al Qaeda
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2015/04/19/our-enemies-the-saudis/
For all you Bible haters out there this was predicted 2000 years ago. Go ahead and keep hating, there is a place for all of you there along with ISIS, THE FED, and all the other government ABC's douce bags.
Oh the contrary, all that Bible crap is just another tentacle on the Illuminati squid. The Council of Nicea was one great big pro-Imperial lovefest between Christainity and the Roman Empire (statism) and the real early Christians, along with 90% of their works, were destroyed under by Emperor Constantine to consolodate Roman Authority. What you have now is "the Bible," a broken patchwork of teachings completely denuded of its original context and used to aggrandize the power of the State. Tell me, does your church have an American flag by the pulpit? Says it all.
Utter hogwash.
It is a well researched and attested to fact that the Bible has been copied accurately and faithfully. On the integrity of the New Testament:
“As with all the previously published New Testament papyri (127 of them, published in the last 116 years), not a single new reading has commended itself as authentic. Instead, the papyri function to confirm what New Testament scholars have already thought was the original wording or, in some cases, to confirm an alternate reading—but one that is already found in the manuscripts” - http://www.dts.edu/read/wallace-new-testament-manscript-first-century/
To date, over one hundred and twenty such New Testament papyri are known. In general, they are considered the earliest witnesses to the original text of the New Testament.” - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Testament_papyri
And all are in agreement with one another. The standard practice is to ensure that modern translations adhere to these earliest copies of the papyri. We therefore know that they are faithful replications of what occurred in the first century.
More details here:
http://www.bible.ca/ef/topical-the-earliest-new-testament-manuscripts.htm
https://carm.org/manuscript-evidence
The Old Testament is just as well preserved as the New Testament.
So there is no "problem" with the integrity of the Bible.
Which Bible? The one with Jubilees and Maccabees 3 and 4? The Diatesserons, which were the only Bibles known to many members of the Early Church? And why did a hand-picked collection of Bishops get the right to lop off the entire menagerie of sects and scriptures collectively known as the Gnostics today?
It was an Imperial hit, pure and simple. No matter how much you try to rationalize it to yourself with poorly considered dogma, it's just dry bones rattling around in a coffin.
As I replied to you on another recent thread- the process of canonization of the 66 books was perfectly sensible- the apocrypha were rejected for good reason.
https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/asbury-bible-commentary/Canon-Scr...
Nothing you say is going to convince me that the Gospel of Thomas is not a profound and moving book reflecting divine inspiration, nor will I be convinced by a bunch of 1600 year dead ass-kissing Bishops (Ayatollahs) appointed by the Roman govenrment.
It is abundantly clear that you do not understand the God of the Bible.
God causes, and allows, events to occur that work in accord with His everlasting plan.
For example, God used the pagan Assyrians, Persians, Greeks and Romans to conquer and punish the Israelites because they rejected Him as a nation. But that doesn't mean Pul, King of Assyria, Darius, King of the Medes and Persians, etc were what God woulkd judge as good men.
Likewise, He permitted the Emperor Constantine to act to canonize the 66 books of the Bible, and while there is definitely value in the Apocrypha (there are actually quotes from them in the Bible canon)- they are not inspired, and so do not belong in the canon.
Nor am I saying that Constantine was a good man- under him, many pagan practices were brought into Roman christianity that exist to this day.
Does it bother you that none of that shit is true? Nobody with a functioning conscience would permit for one moment the idea that God has some kind of chosen race he decided to uniquely save, while letting all the Chinese and Indians and American Indians and all the many tens of millions of people all over the world who lived contemporaneously with the Hebrews suffer eternal torment. It's just not within the realm of what a thinking person will permit; such a god, if it existed, would be unworthy of our worship.
Since we're quoting scripture at each other, this is from the Apocryphon of John; this god seems much more worthy of my worship than the jealous, sectarian YHWH of the Hebrews -
"He is the invisible Spirit, of whom it is not right to think of him as a god, or something similar. For he is more than a god, since there is nothing above him, for no one lords it over him. For he does not exist in something inferior to him, since everything exists in him. For it is he who establishes himself. He is eternal, since he does not need anything. For he is total perfection. He did not lack anything, that he might be completed by it; rather he is always completely perfect in light. He is illimitable, since there is no one prior to him to set limits to him. He is unsearchable, since there exists no one prior to him to examine him. He is immeasurable, since there was no one prior to him to measure him. He is invisible, since no one saw him. He is eternal, since he exists eternally. He is ineffable, since no one was able to comprehend him to speak about him. He is unnameable, since there is no one prior to him to give him a name.
"He is immeasurable light, which is pure, holy (and) immaculate. He is ineffable, being perfect in incorruptibility. (He is) not in perfection, nor in blessedness, nor in divinity, but he is far superior. He is not corporeal nor is he incorporeal. He is neither large nor is he small. There is no way to say, 'What is his quantity?' or, 'What is his quality?', for no one can know him. He is not someone among (other) beings, rather he is far superior. Not that he is (simply) superior, but his essence does not partake in the aeons nor in time. For he who partakes in an aeon was prepared beforehand. Time was not apportioned to him, since he does not receive anything from another, for it would be received on loan. For he who precedes someone does not lack, that he may receive from him. For rather, it is the latter that looks expectantly at him in his light.
"For the perfection is majestic. He is pure, immeasurable mind. He is an aeon-giving aeon. He is life-giving life. He is a blessedness-giving blessed one. He is knowledge-giving knowledge. He is goodness-giving goodness. He is mercy and redemption-giving mercy. He is grace-giving grace, not because he possesses it, but because he gives the immeasurable, incomprehensible light.
Your reading comprehension is terrible. Where did I ever use the term “chosen race?” Where?
You keep assuming, and digging yourself a deeper hole.
God’s promise to Abraham (Abram) was to a seed, not seeds. That seed is Jesus Christ- and no other:
“The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.” – Galatians 3:16
The “chosen” ones are not a “race” per se- they are all who exercise faith in Him:
“And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.” – Hebrews 11:6
There is only one way to be chosen- put faith in Jesus Christ:
“Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” – John 14:6
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” – John 3:16
As for your comments about Chinese, American Indians, etc, suffering eternal torment- that isn’t taught anywhere in the Bible. What in the world led you to believe it was?
Would you two just get a room?
If you're not interested in your everlasting salvation- feel free to scroll down.
But if you're not adding anything to the conversation- why post?
Not every thought that pops into your brain cell needs to be expressed in writing.
Go bite ankles elsewhere.
> If you're not interested in your everlasting salvation- feel free to scroll down.
You will be aware that EVERY other Religion uses that exact tactic (even Buddhism, to a lesser extent).
Before you peddle "your" Religion, spare a though for all the other "believers", wo have just a fervent "faith" in "their god(s)", and who justifiably (to them) think your Bible is essentially hogwash.
Only Jesus promises eternal life (for men and women) in a perfect paradise for eternity, being taught truth by Him- where every desirable thing is!
Contrast that with:
Islam- 72 virgins (What to do when they're not virgins? What's in it for the women?) Ridiculous.
Buddhist- freeing oneself from desire- nothingness. (Sounds like hell to me). Ridiculous.
Hindu- merge into the cosmic Brahma. (Ditto). Ridiculous.
Most importantly- Jesus proved He is God's son, having been resurrected (and witnessed by hundreds). And the Bible is the only book that proves it is divinely inspired and breathed by God (as discussed elsewhere in this thread).
The Bible foretold in advance 100s of events , 100s of years in advance- that were later fulfilled. It has foretold these last days and the events that must occur shortly- before His second coming.
Other "holy books?" Nada, zilch, zip, zero.
Now, what was that comparison to other "faiths" you were talking about?
Ain't no comparison.
Hey man, I'm Christian but I kinda like the "free oneself from desire" thing. Maybe more people should practice that in their daily lives and be happy with what they have instead of trying to fill gaps with "shopping therapy" and other bullshit. In this world the less you desire, the free-er you are. It's not like waiting in line for the "I-wrist 28" makes you a better Christian or anything so the two don't have to be mutually exclusive.
Anybody can pick and choose individual "verses" (which of course naturally have no hermeneutical legitimacy) to make any book say anything they want. "Slaves obey your masters" is in there too, if you don't use your common sense to understand its place in the context of the entire letter.
Jesus Christ isn't a savior and he didn't preach a soteriological religion. What he preached was a mystical religion whose cornerstone is the awakening of the human soul to itself. The "savior" angle was an Imperial imposition in every way. It's the Empire who wants you to look outside for saviors it can adroitly market. It's the Empire who wants to keep the spirit from interfering with its Earthly authority. It's the Empire that needs Jesus on a cross instead of teaching, and it's the Empire who needs to keep religion dead and in scriptures lest it find its way into human hearts as an awakening of consciousness.
Just the idea that God requires a sacrifice for forgiveness is ugly blasphemy. If your children break a lamp, do you demand they torture the neighbor's cat to death before you'll forgive them their error? Forgiveness with a price is not forgiveness, it's blood money.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
The entire Bible, in context, provides for salvation, in the form of a savior, ever since Adam and Eve fell from grace.
"And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world." - 1 John 4:14
58 more Scriptures on "Savior":
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=savior&qs_version=NIV
114 Scriptures on "Salvation":
"how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him." - Hebrews 2:3
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=salvation&qs_versi...
"And you, my child, will be called a prophet of the Most High;
for you will go on before the Lord to prepare the way for him,
77 to give his people the knowledge of salvation
through the forgiveness of their sins,
78 because of the tender mercy of our God"
-Luke 1:76-78, referring to none other than John the Baptist- whe prepared the way for Jesus Christ.
Blood sacrifice is established throughout the entire Bible- both OT and NT-it is the ONLY WAY to was sins away, and Christ's perfect sacrifice was the ultimate- it FOREVER releases manking from sin- if only they will put their faith in Jesus:
"to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight" - Ephesians 6:1-8
There are hundreds of other Bible verses that establish this fact.
It is therefore very clear that you do not know the Bible.
The Bible isn't representative of Jesus' teachings. When did Jesus say "oh yeah and some dude named Paul is going to come along in a couple dozen years and write up half this thing lol?" Right, he didn't. And he spent half his time invalidating the old texts, explicitly breaking all of the rules the hidebound Pharisees imposed on the Hebrews and replacing them with a gospel based on forgiveness of sin and personal, mystical development. What we've got from Jesus is actually a pretty narrow corpus, word count speaking, and it's not expanded by that much if you also include the apocrypha. Regardless, I see zero words from Jesus about abortion (which was so common in the Roman world that they farmed a natural abortifacient herb to extinction.) I see zero words on teh gay. I see a lot of particularly incisive invective about religious authorities and their rules, though.
As God's only begotten Son, Jesus clearly knew that the OT was God-breathed, divinely inspired. His apostles also knew as much. In fact Jesus quoted from 24 different Old Testament books.
So it is clear that abortion is tantamount to murder, and that homosexuality is a grave sin, grouped with other grave sins:
"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.' - 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
But- humans who have done these things can accept Christ as their personal savior, and be forgiven:
"And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." - 1 Corinthians 6:11
When you choose to accept some Scripture as divinely inspired, and not others, you are not only on a slippery slope- you have jumped the shark.
The 11 Apostles that lived with Jesus Christ accepted Paul as genuine. You need to as well, your ego needs to get out of the way, and accept the entire Bible as God's word- which it clearly is.
dude
You make it sound like God was running around with a wallet full of condoms and the one he used for Mary slipped off or broke.
Actually if Jesus were reading this thread he would probably puke.
Oh yeah?
Why's that?
Clear to elucidate your position?
Simple. I don't have to refer to anything other than the same source you use. Jesus said all that is necessary is to Love God and to Love thy neighbor as thyself, the rest of the law stems from this and it comes from the original commandments set forth in the OT. God forgave in the OT and am sure God forgives now. Jesus was murdered as he represented a real threat to organized religion.
His death and blood sacrifice were dreamed up after the fact. It gave religion an excuse for existing as it is so confusing having a three headed God when the real God is indescribable.
My handle is Cherry Picker, but you are guilty of the same as you will ignore the contradictions and and make references that are not applicable. Then again, the native Americans believed in God and moral laws. They never heard of a Nicene Creed. I don't believe for a minute they are all suffering for an eternity in a dimension called hell, otherwise why would one want to have children knowing they are doomed unless they believe in human sacrifice?
There are some significant errors in what you have stated in your (otherwise pretty solid) post.
Jesus was murdered in a specific manner (hung on a xylon, or stauros), and for a specific reason (to institute salvation as a ransom sacrifice)- the "threat to organized religion" was only the excuse that the Pharisees used to have Him executed. It was necessary that He die in exactly the manner He did - so that the imperfection and sin that Adam and Eve brought upon this world could be washed away, by a perfect man who commited no sin.
"So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit." - 1 Corinthians 15:45
"For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many." - Mark 10:45
There are no contradictions in the Bible- only misinterpretations and lack of understanding the reasons for events as they were recorded in the Bible.
I fail to see why you think the Bible teaches that "they are all suffering for an eternity in a dimension called hell", where do you get that idea? It certainly isn't taught in the Bible.
That, too, is a case of misinterpretation. Turning what is clearly a parable (derived from a well known, popular Roman tale) into a literal interpretation.
God is Love- He is not a sadistic torturer:
"They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire--something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind." - Jeremiah 7:31
No, God will wipe out the wicked- He will make them cease to exist- just as something consumed by fire no longer exists:
"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." - Revelation 20:13-15
It is clear from this Scripture that death and Hades (hell, sheol- the grave)- were thrown into this lake of fire.
This is a prophetic metaphor for the fact that death (and humans whoi are judged wicked by Him) will not exist anymore:
"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death' or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."- Revelation 21:4
So, you see- it's not enough to base your entire understanding on one verse of the Bible, such as "the two commandments." If you do that, you are as blind as those blind guides that lead the sects of "christianity".
And, to be 100% clear- only ONE human sacrifice was ever ordained by God- the sacrifice of His perfect Son. There is now no need of anymore sacrifices- human or otherwise- other than self-sacrifice:
"I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship" - Romans 12:1
Truth spoken Seek,
Such as the bastardazation of Passover with Easter, which is a pagen fertility goddess, complete with orgies and rolling of eggs meant to replica fertility. Here is the truth about Easter:
Easter is not a Christian name. It is Chaldean (Babylonian) in origin - the name Astarte, one of the titles of Beltis, the queen of heaven. The name Astarte, as found on the Assyrian monuments by the noted archeologist Layard, was the name Ishtar. The worship of Bel and Astarte was introduced very early into Britain, along with the Druids, "the priests of the groves," the high places where the pagans worshipped the idols of Baal. In the Almanac of the 1800's, May 1st is called Beltane, from the pagan god, Bel. The titles Bel and Molech both belong to the same god.
We must remember that Semiramis (also known as Ishtar) of Babylon, the wife of Nimrod and mother of Tammuz, was the same goddess worshiped throughout the world under various names, such as the Egyptian fertility god, Artemis, the Roman goddess of licentiousness, Venus, the Greek goddess of love, Aphrodite, and the Ephesian, many-breasted fertility god, Diana, as well as many others.
The (Easter) bunny, the oldest pagan symbol of fertility - Semiramis - has absolutely NOTHING to do with the resurrection of Christ.
Nor does the Sunrise service. Jesus was resurrected while it was still DARK!
Sunrise services are for the worship of the Pagan Sun god - ONLY! In addition, Jesus was NOT resurrected on Sunday, the first day of the week. Please see the study entitled "Was Jesus Really Resurrected on Sunday?" at www.goodnewsaboutgod.com
One mythological legend says that sometime after Semiramis died, a huge egg dropped from heaven. Out of the egg came a re-incarnated Semiramis, now a goddess. The Babylonian Talmud refers to her as Ishtar, or Easter.
The forty days of Lent symbolize one day for each year of Tammuz' life. This period of time is celebrated in the "Christian" church by giving up something to mourn the death - of Tammuz, the son of the pagan goddess Semiramis!
Ezekiel 8:13,14 tells us what God thinks about any festival that recognizes Tammuz:
"The Lord said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they (the Israelites) do.
Then He brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz." Excerpt by Lorraine Day, M.D.
We all search for truth, some want to find it, some want to ignore it, some want to destroy it, and some want to pervert it. I find that you Seek, Truth.
Wild tree,
You are absolutely correct. It was under Constantine that all these pagan beliefs were rolled into "christianity" as opposed to true Christianity: "You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you." - Galatians 4:10-11
There are many, many more pagan beliefs, that unfortunately, are still taught as truth by every "christian" denomination. There is only one place for unadulterated truth- God's word, the Bible. Only by studying it under the guidance of the Holy Spirit do we get unadulterated truth.
Christian "churches" have their purpose, though: "The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice." - Philippians 1:18
They lead to a basic understanding of Christ- where we can become born again children of God.
In order to become spiritual adults, though- more is required: "I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready." - 1 Corinthians 3:2; and: "In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil." - Hebrews 5:12-14
As it is written: "Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about cleansing rites, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And God permitting, we will do so." - Hebrews 6:1-3
Seek,
If you come back to see this, please contact me at wildtreeglb@yahoo.com I think we can learn from each other. The anti-christ awaits, and he will deceive many. I think we are being called out, to get ready. Tribulation is at hand. Peace brother
Gospel of Thomas should be canonical.
No, that is clearly not the case.
http://bibleq.net/answer/2996/
I doubt you're lying - but you're absolutely, and uncontroversially wrong.
Blinded by the light, perhaps.
The men who wrote the various books of the bibles were not especially wise, or informed, or good men.
Hence, if you read it - the viciousness and hate and racism et cetera of the old testament especially.
"The men who wrote the various books of the bibles were not especially wise, or informed, or good men. Hence, if you read it - the viciousness and hate and racism et cetera of the old testament especially."
That is correct- and that is exactly why the Bible can be beleved- its absolute CANDOR.
It does not attempt to paint a rosy picture of most men- in fact, only a mere handful of the Kings of Israel and Judah were spoken of as "good," and even they had their foibles commited to writing. Jesus' own Apostles had huge faults- and they are all attested to in writing.
No other book of ancient times does so- and none are as well preserved, by writers seperated by hundreds of years, of various stations, backgrounds, languages and nations.
It accurately foretold, hundreds of years in advance, what Christ would do, and Christ fulfilled it all- see Isaiah 53, quoted elsewhere in this thread. That is but one example.
It also accurately foretold many events hundreds or even thousands of years beforehand, the times we are living in, for example- yes- the end times, all going as foretold.
Thanks for providing even more proof that the Bible is indeed the word of GOD.
(gagging)
I renounce all previous statements: This is the stupidest thing I have ever read here on ZH and therefore on the internet.
That's because you are not an expert on the subject, just an ankle biter.
Go away, troll.
Go away troll.
Why am I queering your God act? Won't you do as well when you pass the plate?
Or are you woried you'll loose your stature as the HOLIEST MAN AT ZH?
Seek_Truth
How many other names do you have at Zh Mr Truth?