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But They Said "Go To College"
Submitted by Jim Quinn via The Burning Platform blog,
When I graduated from college in 1986 it was easy to get a job. The economy was booming and 82% of college graduates had a job. The other 18% were probably raising kids because their college educated spouse made enough to raise a family. The mantra for my entire life has been – go to college and you’ll get a good paying job. It seems something went wrong on the road to riches. The percentage of college graduates with jobs has been falling for the last 30 years and has been plummeting since 2008. It is now at an all-time low of 74.3%. Shouldn’t these people have obtained jobs since the government tells us the unemployment rate has dramatically dropped from 10% to 5.5% since 2009?
Not only is college graduate labor participation at record lows, but those getting jobs didn’t need a college degree in the first place to get that job, in the majority of cases. A new Careerbuilder survey indicates that though the majority of Class of 2014 college graduates are currently working, 51% of that group are in jobs that don’t require a degree. This is up dramatically from the 38% found in the 2010 US Census survey. The Careerbuilder survey also found that only 36% of 2014 college graduates had obtained full-time permanent jobs. The findings are as follows:
- 65 percent of recent college grads are employed (of these, 36 percent are in full-time, permanent positions; 17 percent are in part-time, permanent positions; and 12 percent are in temporary/contract positions). Fifty-one percent are in jobs related to their college major.
- 4 percent are in internships.
- 31 percent are not working at all (although many in this group haven’t started their job search or are already back in school to pursue a higher degree). Of this group, not even half (43 percent) say they’re currently looking for a job.
- Only 44 percent expect to make more than $30,000 their first year out of college.
So we have less and less college graduates being employed, a majority of college graduates ending up with jobs that don’t require a college degree, many getting part-time temp jobs, and even if they get a job their wages are low. What did Obama and his minions do in 2009? They take over the entire student loan program for the country and proceed to dole out $600 billion of new student loans to anyone who could fog a mirror, let alone add or subtract. Millions have been lured into irreversible chains of debt over the last six years in order for Obama to artificially lower the reported unemployment rate, while pumping billions into consumer spending through a devious backdoor method. Now the brilliant summa cum laude graduates of the University of Phoenix are pouring into the marketplace with $30,000 of student loan debt and interviews at Ruby Tuesday, Texas Roadhouse, and TGI Fridays.
Student loan debt has surpassed $1.3 trillion and the American taxpayer is now on the hook. At least 30% of the outstanding debt is already in default or deferral. The students are left with a debt burden that can’t be written off by declaring bankruptcy, very few jobs in their fields of study, wages that can barely cover the debt payments, and no chance of ever owning a home. They were told by their parents, politicians, and the mainstream media that college was the path to prosperity. They were lied to.
The Federal Reserve and the politicians in Washington D.C. have destroyed our economy with their debt based solutions and vast array of laws, regulations, and taxes, which have drained the life out of our financial system. The number of good paying new jobs for college graduates will continue to decline, but the amount of government backed student loans continues to go up by $5 billion per month. Those who have been unwittingly convinced college was a great idea, will pay for the rest of their lives. Or at least until the $500 billion taxpayer bailout when future president Clinton or Bush decides to relieve the burden of potential voters in a future election. Our hole is deep, but we just keep digging deeper. And the vested interests get richer as students and taxpayers go deeper into debt. They like the system just as it is.
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Welcome to the real world, kids. Be grateful you don't have a 30 year mortgage that's 200k underwater. Then again, you could be living in it for free. Gee, I guess you really are the screwed of the screwed.
A generation, conditioned and shoved into debt slavery.
Acquiring an education always makes you a better person. It dosn't make you successful though.
Of course with the politically correct morons running our university system and influencing the students, learning how to be a tard is now their primary education preference. Like this story, for instance:
John Hopkins bans Non-Existent Plans for a Future Chick-fil-A on Campus
I feel as though if I vote for Hillary Clinton all of this will be fixed.
A College education is not about a degree or a job. It is all about the indoctrination of the students by the way out there far lefties. Get them into college, away from parents and families, mold the thought process. Gonna get ugly.
that dude fucking his sister online 15 hrs a week for 7k a month aint lookin to stoopid now, is he?
At least the government cannot confiscate your education and you can take it with you whereever you wish!
yea, they can take it to prison or skid row.
You could become a better person by volunteering four hours a week at the local Salvation Army, or any other community assistance program, and be $30,000 ahead. The “wisdom” sold to the American public has been “a college education puts you on the path to prosperity”, not “the path to being a better person”.
Too many equate education with 'schooling'.
Given that most of these places are nothing but indoctrination centers, people would likely get a much better real education on their own.
Bringing up all these facts is a total waste if time, however. Those who decide - the parents, - cannot imagine their little Johnny or Suzey not going off to college. And it doesnt matter how dumb or disinterested in studies are their kids.
"When you take the free will out of education, that makes it schooling."
-John Taylor Gatto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQiW_l848t8&list=PL463AA90FD04EC7A2
You don't get the education you pay for. You just get lied to.
For example:
Tesla's Primary Energy Source
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Site:LRP:The_Deliberate_Curtailment_of_Nikola_Tesla%27s_Primary_Energy_Source
The Real “Energy Problem”
http://www.cheniere.org/articles/EE%20briefing.htm
If you paid for an education in Electrical Engineering any time in the last 100 years, you did not get educated in EE; you got lied to. Demand a refund.
"If a man could be described as a zoological type, he would be described as a lying animal."
People pretend that they know all sorts of things:
- about God,
- about the future life,
- about the universe,
- about the origin of man,
- about evolution,
- about everything;
- but in reality they do not know anything, even about themselves.
And every time they speak about something they do not know as though they knew it, they lie.
Lying to Children
Liar.....
Good one, but I think a better description is "hypocrite"
An entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.
Talk about preaching to the choir.
Using humans as colateral for debt is a human rights violation.
Isn't that what governments do?
My biggest educational regret? Not taking shop class and cultivating some cool and handy skills.
Go to college they said.
It will pay-off they said.
No career employment to support the graduates, while propping the Higher Ed. bubble of unsustainable tuition and salaries for higher ups and athletic programs.
Of course they lied, they made lots of money giving you bad advice. What else is new in the Jewnited States of Israel?
Pollution.
What's up with all the Jew hatin' on this site?
It's a side effect of the multi-culturalism being shoved down our throats by Barbara Lerner Spectre.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/census-record-51-million-immigrants-in...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/04/22/killing-jew...
Because the jooz...well it's a long story....
@timewavezero, when you use the word Jew as an adjective, as in "Jew Hatin'", it is considered pejorative, lol.
Seriously, though, if you are white and racist, and want to cure yourself. Get some popcorn, And force yourself to sit through this
piece of Compensatory-NPD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ia9CZyGCh0 When you are done, ask yourself: Is this what I look like
when I promote racist ideologies?
Not sure there is much "hatin'" going on - just clearly and rationally recognising them for the unwholesome nation wrecking parasites that they are and ever have been throughout history.
Wow, kids. I'm not really comfortable with the way this site is going.
Then go back to sleep.
Getting uncomfortable is needed to learn and grow. If you want to be "comfortable", I hear the Huff Post has a nice feel good cultural marxist alternative universe.
9 jew hating downvotes makes me feel even worse. Is your solution to throw them all in the oven? The only good Jew is a dead Jew? Then I'm done with all you Neo-Nazi fucktards that have infested this once great site.
Like I say, it's pollution. The troubling question is why Tyler allows these hate-tards to shit all over his site.
Agree as far as I am concerned this site has slid into nothing but one sentence idiot racism.
Or 50 morons make a ' buy moar', 'btfd' 'btath' blah blah blah 4 word comments over and over again.
Funny, my buddy warned me how 'intelligent' the comments were. He was dead wrong. Douchebags
frankly im more upset over the "Make $7,000 in your sleep" spamming of the place
Yes, there does seem to be a discernment problem going on here (in the commentariat).
Turn it into a good thing, and that is to see more clearly how we've come to this point.
The nazi kooks think they make progress when they post their rants and nobody challenges them on it.
They could easily be hounded away if all the people who just go "yeah, right, whatever" would actually stand up and say something.
ZH is a fun, interesting site but it is also carefully observed, shall we say. Remaining silent implies that one goes along with the nazi kooks.
This could turn out to have very bad consequences if one of them actually acts on their crazy rhetoric. The internet is increasingly a resume that few job seekers can hide from. "Nazi Kook" does not grade well with HR departments anywhere.
"Then I'm done with all you Neo-Nazi fucktards.."
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Haven't you heard? The nazis did a bit more than post bigoted views on a message board. Apparently they also killed a lot of people (not just Jewish people - look it up), based on some unwarrented bias, mistaken beliefs and historical inaccuracies.
Envious, lower class, lower IQ, lazy, no account white trash need someone to blame.
How about Cicero, Voltaire, Nietzsche, Shakespeare, Wagner, Martin Luther, Solzhenitsyn, Henry Ford? Just off the top of my head. Would they be classed as lower IQ, lazy, no account white trash?
They think ZH is a sanctuary city for bigots. Tyler is a libertarian so he can't bring himself to tell them to shut up. And no, I don't give a fuck if I get down arrows. Badges of courage if you ask me.
More like a self esteem issue on your part if you really feel the need to worry about up/down arrows...
Because it's not as fun if you don't have a scapegoat and actually have form cogent thoughts by applying your grey matter to something other than parroting what your racist parents or friends or whatever taught you. Also funny is how these indoctrinated douche fucks are the most vocal in criticizing higher learning institutions as bastions of "indoctrination". Calculus kicked my ass..but I don't remember it indoctrinating me in any particular way.
Jonesy has to blame someone for his loser life. If it wasn't Jews, it would be some other ethnic group. For some reason, Jonesy can't figure out that people of all ethnicities are subject to evil and corruption.
Jonesy - what is it with you? - every comment has bigotry of some kind
Go into massive debt so you can listen to self absorbed liberal sycophants pontificate about how smart they are because you are actually stupid enough to pay $$$ to sit in their classroom. That is education?
No thanks.
The concept of thinking that borrowing money will make you smarter speaks volumes of the macro stupidity of modern society.
Yep you really have it all figured out.
The fact that nearly everyone here assumes that the ONLY thing that college involves is listening to "self absorbed liberal sycophants pontificate about how smart they are" blah blah fucking blah obviously shows that they either never went to college, or if they did go, were unable to get up the balls to study anything other than fluff courses and used it as a time to fuck off and party.
I was a science major...sure I had to take a few liberal arts courses, but NOT ONE of my science or math professors had any hidden agenda nor did they seek to 'indoctrinate' me in any way other than to learn how to think and master the subject matter at hand. And quite honestly, I don't remember much 'pontificating' or 'indoctrinating' in my liberal arts courses either. So those of you who are experts about what collegs is, who have never gone, I suggest you go to your local community college, and have your ass kicked by calculus...or physical chemistry...or organic chem...or physics...or any number of other courses that will teach you how to fucking think and constructively criticize instead of simply regurgitating crap you heard on Fox News without having had any first-hand experience. What I get from most of these posts are a bunch of angry dudes that feel insecure because they never finished their degree or never went to college, and just use any negative news about the state of higher learning in our country as an excuse to bash it and feel justified doing so. That said, given the COST of college, I would not, if I had a kid, FORCE him or her to go and would probably encourage learning a trade. And if they really wanted to go to college, a responsible parent would hopefully guide their child in balancing what they want to do with what's a practical degree that might get them work in the future. The risk of indoctrination is low...and those that get indoctrinated would get indoctrinated whether they went to college or not.
The fact that they have a degree on Womyn's Studies, or African history or any of the other useless, feelgood, participation trophy subjects only makes them more laughable.
I'm sure it's not the computer nerds and engineers that are flipping burgers and pouring coffee for $8/hour. They got what they paid for, a pile of useless liberal shit!
Stupid degrees are not a Liberal or Conservative mistake. Stupid people are just stupid.
Stupid degrees from worthless 'universities'
'University' of Phoenix isn't a univeristy. Anyone dumb enough to give them the time of day is only worth minimum wage.
Again, this is a case of the fake self-esteem movement where everyone gets a trophy or in this case a degree. Not everyone is intellectually/emotionally capable of EARNING a degree from a REAL school.
'You can be anything you want to be!' No you can't. College just gave these imbeciles four more years to continue believing in that lie. Now they're where the belong: waitressing, bartending, cashiering...with $100k in student loans to boot. Idiots.
A big problem that Ive observed is that many kids have been taught by their parents and 'schools' that they can do anything - - - and that they won't have to work very hard to get it.
When the reality of that first hits them - in some hardcore un-watered down calculus class - they quit.
The final result is another psychology, business, or such major.
African history can actually be pretty marketable if someon ties it to a business skill or international relations...or decides to get an advanced degree in it. It's not a subject many want to study but many global companies and gov/NGO groups need experts in it to exert their influence.
And it's fascinating. Check out how the Brits would push the Boars further in to tribal lands, knowing it would cause battles and then take all the guns away from the Africans claiming it was needed so the Brits could "protect them". Not long after...apartheid. hmmm? Another great gun rights historical moment to cite.
I suspect you meant African American studies...or Africana studies. Different beasts entirely.
Yeah, I asked for the Zanzibar or Saharan Trade Route 101 studies and the little prog girl looked at me like I was the Grand Wizard of the KKK.
Clearly she was the most qualified they could come up with in admissions ;-)
Sure, but how many jobs like that are there? Not nearly enough to accommodate the number of graduates from said programs.
I didn't down vote ya BTW
Precisely. If you want to feed yourself, get a degree that enables you to do something .. useful. Recessions are not a good time to indulge in liberal art mental masturbation.
The real question is, what say did I have in allowing my government to loan so much money to do-nothing idiots?
Yep that's all they teach at them there colleges...women's studies. You obviously are someone who has a wide breadth of first hand experience at institutions of higher learning. I trust all you say. You're really fucking smart.
a SOCIOLOGY degree must be worth something! College courses on 'How to apprciate the mythology of STAR WARS'...actually Lucas and Speilberg destroyed American Cinema
When everyone has a degree, no one does.......
There can never be enough money blow...er, spent on a college education! It should be a basic human right!!! All we need is moar administrative staff, low interest loans and a Fed printing farrreeee money! ;-)
Protocol #11
Control the education system to spread deception and destroy intellect.
For a "hoax" they sure are accurate.
1909: Jews found NAACP and run it for next 66 years.
1913: Banks centralized and government taken over.
1915: The KKK, the original of which was a militant response to the North's tyranny, occupation, and destruction of the South, is refounded.
1917: WW I.
1918 - 1920: "Red Scare."
1920s: Propaganda supporting the masses move toward frivolity instead of industriousness and thrift.
1930s: Take over by the banksters and their violence-puppets, government, of the private sector.
Mass unionization and anti-trust conflicts against private property.
And much more.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission.
Many don't realize that the results of the "Civil Rights" movement were, and are, direct evidence of Zionist control of the DC US. So-called "Jim Crow" laws represented inequality before the law of both blacks, and more importantly, white business owners. This was spun around, and guilt was foisted upon business, and individuals, instead of with government. The government, at the behest of their Zionist masters, then trampled upon everyone's rights of Liberty, Property, and free association, while having the blacks become beholden to government--"neo-slaves." The Zionists, according to plan, have used the grenades of "equality" and discrimination ever sense to keep the people divided against one another while they, the Zionists, have continued to plunder and bleed the American country dry.
No sane market system would price a degree in Art History and Robotic Engineering the same.
NAFTA and looting. Exactly what the Russian jewish kleptocrats did to Russia. You didn't think these idiots thought this up themselves, did you?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/09/04/a-billion-reaso...
Parents would say "go to college or you'll end up becoming a ditch digger".
But now ditch diggers are 'heavy equipment operators' and make twice as much as college grads, and got paid to learn their trade during the 4 years the grads were going into debt in college.
How ironic....
I see lots of jobs in the future too, digging FEMA ditches for the FEMA coffins........
its funny that you should mention ditch digger. they are doing some work widening a waterway near where I live that involves excavators digging down under water as the build the new seawall. I have no idea what the 'ditch diggers' operating the excavators make, but each one of the ditch diggers has their own guy who sits about 50 feets away in a lawn chair, watching them dig to make sure they dont accidently disturb a sea turtle, and I have it on good authority that they get about 100/day just to sit the and WATCH the ditch digger make the water filled ditch wider.....
Oh, there are plenty of well-paid union jobs that any fucking dumbass can do with just a smidge of training. Two examples would be sprinklerfitters and electricians. I was on one job in particular where journeyman electricians were earning $200k/year before taxes (remote Alaska). Were they doing really difficult work? No, it was 100% indoor work pulling and terminating low voltage wiring. I could have trained a high schooler to do it for $25/hr. You wonder why shit it so expensive? Well, unions are a big part of the problem. Somebody has to pay those wages.
On the other hand, maybe someday it will be proven advantageous to have a highly educated crop of future revolutionaries?
One factor is what Johnny is studying at college with that government loan. The answer is lots and lots of liberal arts. Maybe little Johnny is surprised that he can't get a six figure salary with his 18th century French poetry degree, but I'm not. Gender and ethnic studies, psychology, lit, etc majors might make good foot soliders for Team Obama's liberal community organizer machine, but they aren't super useful in the real world.
All those government loans are also what is making college so expensive. The pricing of college is detached from the marketplace via the government guarantee.
Government loans should only go to majors that the country actually needs: Chem, engineering, physics, math, and bio.
I understand what you're saying, but that's not what a liberal arts degree is. A liberal arts degree is cicero, socrates, plato, aristotle, calvin, hobbes, newton, hippocrates, voltra, faraday, maxwell, shakespear, and more that I can't think of off the top of my head. Just because the disfunctional universities can't teach these subjects anymore, don't throw the liberal arts baby out with the modern higher education bathwater. This is the foundation of modern critical thought. Critical thought is what cuts through the bullshit of modernspeak.
If modern universities actually believed in teaching students how to think critically it might be worth saving.
As it is, they teach mono-thought.
Try going into an economics class saying anything anti-Keynesian or a poli-sci class saying anything against the technocratic-oligarchic state as it stands or the institution of democracy failing over time everywhere its been tried.
They'll look at you like you have a third eye in your forehead.
Discriminatory? Yes.
Critical thinkers? No ;-)
Are ZHers critical thinkers? Some certainly are, but most? I don't know.
I think most are opinionated (including me) that means the majority. The proper question as I see it is, is a majority always correct?
In my opinion history is pretty clear on that ;-)
Well Hohum they're a lot more critical in thought for reading Z/H than 99% of the shit alternatives out there.
Is Paul Krugman a critical thinker? Maybe, if he has been fooling everyone and doesn't believe the shit he's been spouting and only doing so for a .gov paycheck/ after dinner dumps etc etc
. . . . and yet the bastard's been doused with numerous awards.
Can anyone really determine what critical thinking is in today's reality?
You should be learning how to think critically in middle or high school... University level is much too late for that.
@spinone - you don't need the credential ( a degree) to study the mind liberating liberal arts. Many of the ancient Greek philosophers would probably gag at today's system, which doesnt encourage independent thinking or voicing opposition (at most schools).
IMO, with the high costs of education nowadays, many families need to look at it in financial terms. Will the credential and the schooling entailed pay off financially ? Pick an area of study that's likely to pay. Don't complain later if you were stupid in your choice. Pursue a true liberal education on your own, outside of degree programs.
The great science fiction writer Ray Bradbury was a young man during the first Great Depression. He didnt have money for college. He got a great education and paid nothing for it. Over 10 years, he read every book in the public library.
I used to be a techno nerd and think like that too (engineering undergrad). But, the liberal arts were supposed to be about liberating the mind. It included learning how to define ones terms (general grammar), logic, and rhetoric (communicating ideas effectively to put them into action).
In most cases the so-called 'liberal arts' courses today are nothing but a confused jumble of unrelated topics presented in a disjointed manner. That's not liberating at all, - and this was no accident.
Those who study technical subjects have a limited exposure to learning critical thinking skills - 'the scientific method'. But they are usually nothing more than technicians - even those with Phds. They do not apply this way of thinking outside their own narrow specialties. They often are as ignorant of broader historical, political, & economic issues as the general population. Those with high book intelligence may be very good at learning - - - what is wrong. ( example - Keynesian 'economics' )
Agreed. At a high-level, the government, industries, and educational institutions need to communicate with eachother to ensure that the education and training that is provided are lock-step with the current and future needs of the economy.
Clearly this is not happening.
"And the vested interests get richer as students and taxpayers go deeper into debt. "
Zion and their banksters plunder the unsuspecting.
But remember all of Zionist bankster debt is actually funded, three times, from theft from the people. In the case of student loans, they are quite open about their violence-puppets, government, backing service of that debt.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission.
Student loan debt is an interesting beast. First the banksters steal the people's deposits to back their further theft by counterfeit and creation of the fiat-debt funds loaned to the unsuspecting students. Then when their victims cannot pay, they print up more theft which they then loan to the government so that the government can then hand it back to the banksters as payment on their "guarantee" of the student loans. The government then must step up their thefts from the people to service that increased debt. So we have at least three thefts perpetrated by the banksters for so-called student loans.
An people question my quest for guillotines.
Back when I went to school, the higher education establishment always encouraged you to spend on any education you could or could not afford. Fortunately, I have a job with benefits at the present, no thank-you higher education! My degree did not do anything for me in my career or my life. Here is some advice that I have for you who are about to graduate from college or are entering junior high:
1.) Whatever you do, make sure it is the course of action you want to take. Take the time to find a career or field of study that you will stick with and can use
2.) Learn how to sell yourself. Don't rely on the career prep courses that explain how to present yourself to an employer and answer questions. Find out how to bring out the best side of yourself and show it to people.
3.) Conserve your finances! I cannot stress how important this is when you are living on your own. May be you have parents who will lend you money when you need it or you have a trust fund but the rest of us have to earn our way through life.
4.) Be prepared for any disasters or emergencies that may occur in life. Save up a cushion of money to last one to two years for your own survival. Yes I know that may not be possible in this time but forcing myself to save and keep a reserve has helped a lot.
5.) make up with your parents, if you have any problems with them. Once they die, that is it for your relationship with them. Don't wait for the great opportunity to make up or talk or whatever with them.
I hope this helps. Thanks for reading. Oh and do not rely on higher education to help form or run your life. That is not their function and you do not want them to interfere with your life.
politicans dole out grants to university's. they carve out exceptions for teacher unions and subsidize the loans students take. in turn the schools raise tuition because demand is artificaly high. the liberal elite teachers vote for the candidate that promises to spend more on education because thats who is buttering thier bread. of course who would be "stupid" and actully argue that spending more on education is bad so education spending is sold as both a cure all for the economic issues and help for the "working" class.
A note to all '15 college graduates. Don't play on the train tracks, or Mommy won't make you a PBJ for lunch.
Let them "play on the train tracks"...it will just leave more jobs for the rest of us....
College teaches you to drink. This is an absolute must have skill for doing business in China.
Quite true!
JU GOT OWNED!
I heard some waiters the other day laughing at one of their own that had racked up $10,000 in debt over 6 months in school and then quit.
They thought it was funny. I thought it was quite sad. Thanks to Bush and his Bankruptcy Reform Act of 2005 education debt is non-dischargable via bankruptcy.
The yoke is on these poor people for life.
Fake phony fraud W. There's a case of daddy writing the check.
Some should go to university, some to college, and the rest should do whatever they can. No matter what the parents or society want.
Given that parents are not objective and society not honest or working in your best interest, you need to think for yourself.
So many young people and their parents seem to give absolutely no thought to the consequences of the college programs these children are in. I know a kid who will spend many thousands on a business degree that will only give him a piece of paper that big corporations require to weed out applicants. If they were hiring, does he really want to work for a big corporation? Another kid is going to major in 'Environmental Studies' at a heavily left leaning college. Its a policy orientated program, they also offer 'Environmental Science' which is science course based. So, I see him at some government agency pushing the 'man made global warming' meme and Agenda 21. He just 'wants to help the environment', but is clueless about the motivations pushing some of these programs. Another kid, from a family whose parents spent time in the Peace Corps, is taking a course in NGO Management from another leftist college. The kid & parents know nothing about George Soros and how NGOs are often used as weapons to overthrow governments.
all part of the plan. There was never supposed to be a truly prosperous middle class in the US.
Never.
For the majority, wages will be barely sufficient for taxes and debt service. good luck affording much more than that.
and good luck to my generation and those that followed in "retiring" after playing by the fucking rules.
this system will reset by will or entropy, but will not be sustained.
lol, DONT GO TO COLLEGE PEOPLE!!
ITS NOT WORTH IT ANYMORE. SERIOUSLY
Unless daddy is writing the check.
My degree in Underwater Basket Weaving with a minor in Regulator/BC Repair, will come in handy, when I weave a basket to haul all y'all's silver and gold that spilled out of all y'all's canoes. Winning!
Wait a minute......
WTF is "College Graduate"? is that what the rest of the world calls "University Graduate"?
Lets assume so.
Look, when I went to Uni in the eighties it was a common refrain that arts graduates, students of of which made up over HALF the campus population, should have to learn the phase 'would you like fries with that" to get their degree. It was no secret to anyone that if they didn't do a post grad in law or business, that they'd be waiting tables. This has NEVER been a secret.
So why is this? I went to the University of Alberta, at that time 29,000 full time students, about 14,000 of which were in arts. Why such a large arts faculty if the administration knows perfectly well these people will be un-employable? That's easy, FOLLOW THE MONEY!
When I went to school the province coughed up several grand per year per student in education subsidies to the university. Now, that is per student regardless of faculty. Let lets a have quick look at overheads:
Faculty Staff Overhead Laboratory Overhead Laboratory Facilities Availability of TAs for labs
Arts Low to very low ZERO ZERO HUGE
Engineering High High High Cost Low to very low
Medicine High High High Cost Low to very low
Geology High High High Cost Low to very low
Business Very High Zero Zero Low to very low
Check the chart. You're on the board of regents, which faculty do you pump up to get the most grant money from the province? Its a no brainer.
But here's the thing, this was no secret in the eighties and surely isn't a secret now. I would highly encourage anyone to study engineering any day of the week. you WILL get a job, Geology, yup, Medicine, yup etc....
What you're really dealing with here is a disease that has infected America as a whole, and that is this:
Discipline and studying are for losers. You just need the idea (the cliff notes so to speak) and go off and make my millions.
Everything in America today is about the short cut, the easy way.
If you want to have fun drinking beer and chasing pussy on campus, arts is the ticket. They are the ones that keep all the campus bars in business. I can only comment on engineering since that is what I did but we, as a group, got on the booze at best Friday night, THAT'S IT. One evening a week. If you did anymore that that, you failed, period. Saturday morning, sober up, organize your stuff, and then dig in, 8 hours Saturday and 12 hours Sunday. Labs to write up, assignments due, computer labs, etc, etc, etc. Its was endless. A friend of my called it "Bleeding out of your eye balls."
If it was easy, everyone would do it....which is why everyone doesn't. And this is the basic problems that goes along with the "easy way" above. We have lost the ability to admit that some people have abilities for this and others abilities for that. This fantasy that everyone can go and succeed is just that. If you can't do math, you will die in engineering in 8 weeks, you will be out, asked to leave, shown the door etc. If you are poor at math you 'might' make it but here's the thing, I was good at math just like everyone else there and it was still 60 hours of week of homework not including lecture and lab time. There's not much time left there if you need additional tuition on calculus (of which you are force fed....quickly). You get behind you die, you'll fail. And its designed that way and after 20 years in the field, I completely understand why.
I would love to see some stats as to the debt levels and employment rates broken down by faculty. This will likely show a different story entirely.
Uni is required, if you want be an engineer, doctor, geologist etc. For a relationship manger at a bank? not so much.
Enough.
Squid
the funny thing is, liberal arts majors, 20 years into their careers surpassed most STEM graduates because the engineers face discrimination due to their age and the lib-arts majors who have a little gumption become sales people and managers.
being an engineer is a blow job.
You are barely 20 and dreamin, boy.
I agree about the 1980s in the USA. I graduated quickly in my first major, Business Admin. I should have gotten some specialty like Finance or Accounting. I knew a guy that was set on getting a double major in Engineering and Accounting. Made sense.
But my take was that getting a 4 year business degree would get me into a job while others in Liberal Arts would flounder. Today I'd guess I need a new passion, since I didn't have one in my Formal Education and have drifted away from my career.
People make the case that Liberal Arts and teaching is a calling and that those whom get Liberal Arts Degree and that go into business are rounded.
Maybe a real case there. Philosophy, History, Logic, Language do deepen the person. But I am probably thinking of Europeans who speak 3 languages and know many European cultures/histories. You can get a law degree and be a total asshole of course.
I admire the Engineering degree, feel like my University & College studies are "lite", but think we all need more classes in citizenship, history, philosophy, language.
"I would love to see some stats as to the debt levels and employment rates broken down by faculty. This will likely show a different story entirely."
- I think you make a good point, but didn't write it correctly, I would like to see the Debt Levels and Employment Rates matched to Degree Program, I suspect there might be a lot of Liberal Arts Degrees, like you said in the 1980s, that ended up with high debt levels not seen in Business or Engineering Degrees...
- We would disagree about some things, but think you make an important point about "Pie in the Sky" thinking about choosing a degree in college/Uni
- Of course Education is a Business Rip Off
- And USA is shooting itself in the foot by not supporting philosophy degrees, history degrees, USA is too Militarized, USA is too Corporatized, US Culture is broken and illogical, US Future is doomed based on my peak at 1980s College and university results
- What is Desired for College Education is not the same thing as Career Opportunities after Graduation, would you tell your son to get a degree for assholes if it got him a job, or would you guide your kids toward degrees that helped them think.... Money aint Everything... Being Smart in Math and Engineering aint Everything... Being a Corporate Asshole Aint Everything... Living as A Corrupt Stooge Aint Everything... But you don't have a choice if you fail in Education, Math, Physics, Science, Engineering
Nice Chart or Table above
I'm a college professor. Haven't had a meaningful raise in....years. Half the time no raise, if we're lucky we get a percent. Public university.
The reason costs are rising is because the state has gone from providing 70 percent of the cost of education to less than 30 percent.
And as far as the value of a college degree: too many students come to college thinking a degree will provide them the path to prosperity. Not enough come to college for the education.
There's a saying among some students: "C's get degrees." Yes, they do--but they don't get careers. If you go to college and you don't engage, you get exactly what you deserve: debt and not much to show for it.
yup
D is for Diploma
When I attended university there were 60-70 in our class for lectures, then we'd have 3/4 small study groups each week. Nowadays students are 14 to a class, fees have quintupled or more and students are still coming out with non-vocational degrees and going into dead-end McJobs.
To me it should've been the other way around; when job scarcity dictates that loans are almost impossible to repay the courses should be getting bigger and overheads smaller.
In 1987 the president of Ohio State made $115K, now the position pays over $1M.
Then, again, do not tell me, as a good man did to-day, of my obligation to put all poor men in good situations. Are they my poor? I tell thee, thou foolish philanthropist, that I grudge the dollar, the dime, the cent, I give to such men as do not belong to me and to whom I do not belong. There is a class of persons to whom by all spiritual affinity I am bought and sold; for them I will go to prison, if need be; but your miscellaneous popular charities; the education at college of fools; the building of meeting-houses to the vain end to which many now stand; alms to sots; and the thousandfold Relief Societies; — though I confess with shame I sometimes succumb and give the dollar, it is a wicked dollar which by and by I shall have the manhood to withhold.
Ralph Waldo Emerson - Self Reliance
The other day, one of Obama's handlers thought it wise for him to pepper his address witht he familiar Emerson quotation from the same essay, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds." Oh Barry. You are soooooooo deep. Sorry Barry. I actually read that essay at the time of life when I was supposed to, and I know you damn well spent that time in the back of the choom wagon in a ganga daze pondering how to game the system to become Prez. Man that race card really worked well. Bubba Clinton did the same thing. Hillary's problem is that while a user, she wed herself to a more perfected and unempathetic manipulator than herself.
Memo to Barry:
So ummmm....like....ummm...Dude. How come you quote Emerson about foolish consistemcy but when it comes to the "obligation to put all poor people in good situations"....you know.....bong hit...all the illegal immigrants....you don't adhere?
Ah well. Something about the devil quoting scripture for his own purposes I suppose.
So where are all the jobs?
Those pie charts are skewed simply for the astounding notion of what jobs require a four-year degree these days. Even pre-school teachers and retail supervisors require them these days. Absurd.
What I found is that most financially valuable degrees lurk behind what I call the "Calculus Wall". That is where they separate the men from the boys. If you go to college to study a difficult skill to master, including medicine, you come out with a real college degree. If you avoid climbing that wall, you come out with a cool picture of you dressed in a silly hat.
' The Calculus Wall '
That's an interesting idea. IMO every college student should be required to pass the subject as part of a well rounded education. That teacher who they made a movie about teaching h.s. honors calculus taught it to many kids, including those who didnt go into technical fields. It built critical thinking skills, discipline, and confidence.
I know several kids who are avoiding calculus, including one who always said they wanted to be a dentist. Yeah, right - good luck with that.
The Calculus Wall was not that hard to climb as they still offered AP Calculus in my high school in the 70's. I learned to break Calculus down into about 60 or so cases one needed to memorize. In the simplest terms, there's a trick to it. Like a lot of things, if you learn the trick behind it, it actually becomes quite easy but completely mystifies those that haven't learned the trick. Somehow I still can't get integration by parts out of my head since you mentioned the word.
But it wasn't just one wall.
It was the ones that came after it in college. "Differential Equations" and "Electromagnetic Theory". I have never used anything I was forced to learn and subsequently regurgitate in those courses after I took them.
We penned an article 5 years ago about the reasons to choose an alternative path to university education because we believed that the payoff would be low (especially regarding business degrees) in the next five years except for specialized degrees like medicine, engineering, architecture, etc. The reason we stated that delaying a university education in 2011 was smart was because we believed the job market would look no better in 2015 than it did in 2011 and that it was not wise to accumulate a lot of debt and then enter a depressed job market. A lot of people thought we were insane for not believing a massive economic recovery would be underway in another five years. We've written and released podcasts about this subject almost every year since. Here's the article we wrote 5 years ago and the podcast we just released about this topic last month. Unfortunately, until we get rid of Central Bankers and institute sound money, they will continue destroying our job markets and try to turn us all into serfs. Chase the Central Bankers out of your country and the job market will improve.
"Everything I Learned About Succeeding in Business, I Learned Outside of the University Education System", 26 January 2011
SmartKnowledgeU Podcast #3 - Why University Education is No Longer Worth Its Cost, 9 Mar 2015
You can't cheat an honest man, and nobody stuck a gun to anybody's head and made him piss away four years of his life at university, much less take out a student loan, thinking anybody would owe him anything afterwards.
Liberal arts colleges were never intended to be more than finishing schools for the sons of the idle rich. For everyone else they're a complete waste of time and money. If I had to do it all over again I would have never have set foot in one. I could have read Plato in whatever time I could spare from learning to code---and I'm sure I could have found far better things to do to amuse myself on my days off.
I'm sure it would only cost half a million w predatory high interest loans to get and upper grad degree to protest about it .... if u believe the " correct " way to be accepted into the program.
Colleges are total scam. A motivated student could learn far more, much sooner, with a competent online program. Most of the proffesors I had were mediocre to useless. They coiuldn't communicate and many had a poor grasp and understanding of the topic. I learned everything on my own outside the classroom.
As an ex-professor I heartily agree. The only thing keeping the institutions going is the - erroneously - perceived value of their awards.
Education has been perverted and now serves only as another conduit for banksters to rob young people blind and to enslave them for life.
Honest, comprehensive look at what education really is and what's its true objective can be found at:
https://contrarianopinion.wordpress.com/2015/03/19/education-blessings-o...
wow, yet another voluntary individual bad-decision-making behavior to blame on bankers
when you can't get it up or keep it up, do you blame bankers for that too ????
The lending techniques and societal "norms" of going to college for millions that do not need to go to college are nothing short of predatory to vulnerable kids at age 18,19,20. It's done intentionally and and it enslaves these kids. Hindsight is 20/20. Instead of commenting here, why not go down to Wall Street and suck some of these vampires off? Then fuck off.
Did you just return from cashing your entitlement-parasite check ?
So you want everyone to be a social parasite and government dependent like you ?
I see why you are so passionately opposed to anyone striving to accomplish anything, so the entire society can be social parasites and failures like you.
I accumulated a few college credits while in the USAF but never got a diploma. I got my FAA certification as A and P tech and later flight engineer. Those jobs took me all over the world for 30 years. I learned more on my own travelling and reading online than I ever would in college. Also there is not ONE employer I have had that gave a crap about a college diploma.
I am 44, college degree from state university, military veteran. I deliver pizzas in San Francisco 7 days a week on my scooter and live in my truck. I earn between $200 and $250 a day. It's called good old fashion work.
You're smarter than every debt slave college kid.
These sensational articles based upon only very high-level low-detail data are very misleading because a very high percentage of the fools incurring huge debts for a college degree are majoring in worthless unemployable junk, eg liberal arts, humanities, English literature, Spanish language, psychology, etc, etc
If you want a very much more realistic and practical perspective on the value of a college degree, then look at the employment statistics and starting salaries for majors that are actually in demand in the labor market, eg computer science, pharmacy, chemical engineering, etc.
You do not know what you are talking about. Computer Science? Pharmacy? I used to work in the IT feild and my daughter is a pharmacist, and job demand in both areas (for different reasons) have plummeted. Also, students majoring in degrees that do not lead to high paying jobs is absolutely nothing new. Otherwise, there would be no teachers today.
Maybe its just you - my degrees made me wealthy and retired by age 40. Best investments of my life, but I had relentless ambition, motivation and drive, created more than 80 products and services - did you just punch the clock and expect to hit the jackpot ????
Our hole is deep, but we just keep digging deeper. And the vested interests get richer as students and taxpayers go deeper into debt. They like the system just as it is.
A. Its not our hole. It is literally the NWO's hole--underground military complexes--that they will soon be entering into as WWIII the war against the NWO unfolds.
B. We don't do the digging but take advantage as best we can while the NWO goes up our FAFSAs
C. NWO is getting more money but their purpose is to use that money to kill us and it is unknown whether or not that will be possible. Their wealth comes with a heavy price possibly more than any individuals debt. This is because the future like debt has a huge, and here I'd say the maximum, amount of uncertainty.
D. They may be enjoying the system but it is in such an unstable state that NWO participants are very nervous: beyond any time in the past.
Population of legal and illegals have decimated employment. Indian IT scabs taking good paying jobs, many students come here for school with the intention of not leaving now the Brains in the GOV are giving 275,000 Chinese students a year 5 year visa, how many of them you think will leave? The the illegals and legals brothers cousins of new citizens with no education are crowding out the high school kids that just wanted to labor. In the 80s I made bank landscaping, construction, painting anything 10-12 an hour CASH! that went away fast once the illegals made their way to the NE. Bottom line to many people for too few jobs.
Census today show 82% population growth for 8 years in USA is immigration. Speculating that most is free loaders.
ShorTed - " The fact that they have a degree on Womyn's Studies . . ."
Yep, I did women's studies in college with a minor in gynecology. Also, studied the biochemistry of various mind altering substances and brewmeister science. Still managed to get a decent education in a technical field. For me, moderation was the key. The hardcore partying was reserved for Fridays only. The guys I knew back then who flunked out partied all the time.
On a different note - Damned ! Hard to believe the costs of some textbooks today. And some of the jerkweed profs require you buy the new edition, so kids can't buy used. What a freakin' racket.
"They were told by their parents, politicians, and the mainstream media that college was the path to prosperity. They were lied to. "
actually, it's worse. they were told that if they don't have a diploma, they would be worthless
at the same time, they were told that engaging in debt was a very responsible thing to do, just watch how housing choices were pushed
the "debt is good" thing has it roots in "a responsible adult is a home owner", followed by "everybody ought to own a home"
but careful, it's a big tangle of corruption, politics, expensive policy choices, but also of culture. Brits, for example, have their own brand of "homeowner madness" which heavely influences politics
just saying