This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Gold, The SDR, & BRICS
Submitted by Alasdair Macleod via GoldMoney.com,
Last Monday there was a meeting in Washington hosted by the Official Monetary and Financial Institutions Forum (OMFIF) to discuss the future relationship, if any, of gold with the Special Drawing Rights (SDR).
Also on the agenda was the inclusion of the Chinese renminbi, which seems certain to be included in the SDR basket in this year's revision, assuming that the United States doesn't try to block it.
This is not the first time the subject has come up. OMFIF's chairman, Lord Desai wrote a paper about it after the last Washington meeting on gold and the SDR exactly four years ago. The inclusion of the renminbi in the SDR was rejected in 2010 because of inadequate liquidity and is due to be reconsidered this year.
Desai pointed out in his paper that there are difficulties when it comes to including gold, because (and I think this is what he was trying to say) none of the SDR's paper constituents are convertible into gold, but gold's inclusion in the SDR would make them convertible through the back door. However, Desai seemed keen to re-examine the case for gold.
It should be pointed out that if gold is included in SDRs the arrangement cannot be long-lasting so long as the major central banks insist on printing money as an economic cure-all. However, China's position with respect to gold and her own currency could be a different matter.
The Chinese government has almost certainly accumulated large amounts of gold yet to be included in her reserves, and she has also encouraged her own citizens to own gold as well. We can therefore be certain that China sees a monetary role for gold while at the same time she is pushing for the renminbi to be included in the SDR basket. There is no doubt, if you read the IMF papers from the last SDR review in 2010 that the renminbi does now fulfil the criteria for inclusion today. So the question then is will the advanced nations, which dominate the IMF's membership, permit the renminbi's inclusion, and will the US, which has dragged its heels on giving China and the other BRICS nations a greater shareholding in the IMF, relent and permit these reforms, which were accepted by the other members back in 2010?
The Americans' blocking of reform signals her desire to preserve the dollar's hegemony; but given she lost out spectacularly over the creation of the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, IMF reform could become the next serious threat to the dollar's dominance. And if America does not back down over the IMF and the SDR, she will have no fall-back position; China on the other hand still has some aces up her sleeve.
One of them is gold, and another is her role in a rival organisation established by the BRICS. The New Development Bank (NDB) is in the final stages of being set up, driven by frustration at America's attempts to protect the dollar's role and to keep the IMF as an exclusive club for advanced nations. Instead, the NDB could easily issue its own version of the SDR with the gold lining Desai referred to in his original paper.
The reason this would work is very simple. The BRICS members, unencumbered by the cost burden of modern welfare states could exercise the monetary restraint required to tie their currencies to gold, perhaps running a Bretton-Woods-style gold-exchange arrangement between member central banks to stabilise their currencies.
However, the NDB would almost certainly want to see the gold price considerably higher if it is to play any part in a new rival to the SDR. Other BRICS members would be encouraged to make sure they have sufficient gold on board by selling US dollar reserves to buy gold, ahead of any decision to go ahead with a new super-currency.
It would appear the era of the dollar's global domination as a reserve currency is coming to an end, and the stage is now being set for gold to be officially accepted as the ultimate reserve money once again, this time by the next generation of advanced nations.
»
- 91595 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Maybe worthy of being brought into the discussion is exactly what Nixon said regarding the conversion of dollars into gold all the way back in '71...and what it means now.
http://econimica.blogspot.com/2015/04/exactly-what-did-nixon-say-about-dollar.html
Golly. Whoda Thunk. Include gold in the SDR and thus bingo bango if can be held by us peasants (and SDR, like any fiat) and is convertible, then probably have a gold window run and in order to solve it, all gold holdings by the public, world wide need to be confiscated.
Don't wish for what you really have hnot thought through as the Law of Unintended Consequences will screw ya'.
Do you all really think that the CB's are gonna give up infinite fiat?
Really?
Not a fucking chance.
They never wanted to in the past either.
It's Pretty SAD That CHINA Is Fighting For REAL CURRENCY GOLD, While The USa Is DOING ALL For Unlimitted FIATS Paper
Money Printing... SAD...
Hasn't the USA been fighting for oil?
US is fighting for mother Israel
Macleod is a bad ass...and a genius. And everyone should be very thankful for the information he freely gives to us about how fucked up all this shit is.
Official Monetary and Financial Institutions Forum (OMFIF) There's your problem right there! A pox on any official entity that wants to tell me what is and what ain't money. That includes all central banks and the IMF and the BIS.
Oh My Fucking Incompetent Fools (OMFIF)...
Lawd Desai (an Indian descent brit Lawd for those who do not know that last name) is a bought and sold systemic toady.
Gold stored is of INTRINSIC value, perhaps unique in that role especially due to it's being noble and incorruptible.
Gold thoughts, from long ago :-)
https://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2012/01/19/shattering-midass-curse-gold...
https://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2012/01/22/au-kicks-a-joke-more-deep-sy...
Hasn't the USA been fighting for oil?
That's what the Chosenite media programmed the sheeple to believe under Bush....get with the program
LOL..... Does This Sound Familiar, Greece Maybe???
""40 Days: Treasury Says Debt Has Been Frozen at $18,112,975,000,000""
"“Because Congress has not yet acted to raise the debt limit,” Lew said in his March 13 letter, “the Treasury Department will have to employ further extraordinary measures to continue to finance the government on a temporary basis. Therefore, beginning on March 16, I plan to declare a ‘debt issuance suspension period’ with respect to investment of the Civil Service Retirement and Disability Fund and also suspend the daily reinvestment of Treasury securities held by the Government Securities Investment Fund and the Federal Employees’ Retirement System Thrift Savings Plan.”
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/40-days-treasury-says-...
OMFIF.. up ur Fed FACTA FINRA u F’ers.
(note the dominant “F”.. )
WTF?
Just ONE Question:
If gold is just an element and barbarous relic, yesterday’s news paper, not “real money” and all that, then why do Central Banks seek to hoard as much of it as they can get?
"Tradition"
- B. Bernanke.
18 trillion dollars, amazing! When will this ponzi scheme end already? I believe it will happen in a bazzar somewhere when a tourist bulls out a wad of dollars to pay for some trinkets and the stall owner says ..'please pay with yuan', that will be the flap of the wings known as the butterfly effect.
Real Collateral, Bitchez.
Nuf' said?
not oil, but the paper for oil program.
well here "was" a perfect example of the exact five for five on the vote scale. this has now changed. when i first checked @11:55 am there were five votes with perfect five top tic votes. some how my first comment was deleted or never took? does anyone know if the tylers allow contributors based on the voting? there are a few contributors that i have seen this "exact" voting pattern.
go whine about your rigged popularity contest somewhere else... this is Fight Club
Oh, gee.. not to be quarrelsome in Fight Club,
but although I am confident that most here subscribe to the Marquess of Queensberry rules,
sometimes you have to take a shot to the stones.
But then again, I could be wrong.
Steel sharpens steel & fight club was about helping men become, well, men...
If we can just set aside the butthurt and take that asswhipping like we need it so badly... :D
ANYWAY, the elite are sitting on a timebomb they can't defuse, the USA can't simply reject anything now, they too must act or become history...
(3rd world status will be forced on the US, whether anyone likes it or not, we are in debt up to our grand children's ~ children's eyeballs!)
I have my doubts that the US will not be a major world power after the monetary shift:
http://debtcrash.report/entry/us-strength-in-the-upcoming-monetary-shift
the politico-credit mongers are way more devious than most concede..
Yeah if you listen to the elite, they are preacing the demise of America non-stop, and I'm talking about people on the inside here too...
My guess is that when America loses it’s status, it will break up where the richer parts will be walled and large parts of America will turn into third world south America kind of level of 3th world states/countries followed by conflicts between them. Americans will be fighting Americans. It might sound strange now, but it already has all the ingredients to be so.
it happens to all large "nations" of people that are held together through tyranny. just a matter of time.
it's pretty sad that you don't know the history of the IMF, XDR, and Bretton Woods in general... this has to be one of the dumber articles I've seen posted on this topic... "hey guys, let's back the XDR with gold... you know, because the reason we were created to begin with was due to lack of gold *and US dollar* availability... derp"
I'd add that any article stating that the BRICS aren't hobbled by welfare obligations loses all credibility immediately... the 'C' is a Communist state for cryin' out loud and 'B' and 'R' should keep their heads down when the subject comes up as well...
I have great respect for Alisdair, and in a fair, balanced world his perspectives are valid.
But as I mentioned above. the politico-credit mongers are way more devious than most concede.
Why do you think that China is against printing money?
They have printed and need to print more money.
They just want the flexibility on a worldwide scale of Fiat.
They are all Banksters. Debt and Fiat is what they do.
They all think the evil Jew-World-Order runs everything, steals every asset they can get their grubby Jew hands on, and is busy squeezing the peasants dry on specific orders from a secret basement headquarters beneath the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.
But then it's suddenly going to institute a gold-backed currency.
The illogic of it all simply astounds me. Assuming these guys are all Trekkies, every one of them wears a red shirt.
From the Protocols of Zion:
Protocol II, para 5. Through the Press we have gained the power to influence while remaining ourselves in the shade; thanks to the Press we have got the GOLD in our hands, notwithstanding that we have had to gather it out of the oceans of blood and tears. But it has paid us, though we have sacrificed many of our people. Each victim on our side is worth in the sight of God a thousand GOYIM.
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/protocolsofsion.shtml
Protocols = forgery. Forget it.
Hongcha:
Forgery? What forgery? The Portocols of the Elders of Zion? Its a forgery? Is that what you mean? A forgery of what? Or maybe you just are a troll trying to deflect and exhaust the truth. Cuz thats another aim of the Protocols.
The document exists and if you read it; you probably live by it, then you will know what it says and how it is exactly what is going on.
indygo55, forgery was the wrong word - try fraudulent. Attributed falsely and I might add, with venal intent.
I made my peace with the tribe a long time ago. I don't like them but I'm not gunning for them. They are a smarter tribe and played the US like a pianola. I don't blame them. By deception ye shall wage war - motto of the Mossad.
It takes a well-fed, insistently stupid host nation to get played like we were. My white anglo brethren are that ignorant host. Someone slower and stupider than you sits down at the poker table, what do you do? You take their money.
The "Protocols" are true.
It was the biggest play of the Russian secret service (which at the time was an empire).
:-)
And everytime the World Jewish Congress meets you can be assured the protocols are followed. Need proof? Just look at who controls the media in the western world and which oligarchs do the most bribing of politicians.
The glaring problem with the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is that all the "protocols" it mentions HAVE ALL COME TRUE.
If its a fake, its the most prescient fake I have ever read! Ten years ago, I believed it was fake. With what is happening in the world and in the US, I've changed my mind. In practical terms, its good enough to keep track of what has happened, what is happening, and what will happen.
On the other hand, if it were a real, authentic document, the first thing Zion would do it try to undermine it...
As for the tribe, I greatly admire quite a few individual tribe members for their accomplishments. The issue I have with them is the cultural Marxism they are ramming down our throats.The world that they envision is an evil place. Gaza is just a sample of what happens when they are running things. No thanks.
The tribe needs to be kept away from the control levers. They take to power the way Indians take to alcohol - it pushes them over the edge.
fraudulent or not, it is merely words on paper. a man's future will be determined by his own actions or inactions. the people of the US have been wholly inactive and have preferred to feed at the teets of fiat with it's resultant fluent lifestyle. the truth of King Dollar is that all kings die. if the people don't take it into their hands of shaping the future, they will once again find themselves subjected to financial tyranny, under a new name. same as it's always been throughout history.
isn't the US constitution just words on paper? and with every passing day seeming just that. One mans promises through words and the pen is anothers to break.
Could this be another case of despite being fake it is still true?
Sounds awesome add in some sharknado, and a bit of bearicane and a sprinkking of snakes on a plane and we will have a REEE-MIXXX...
Of course they don't want to give up fiat but it's not so much about what they want to do so much as what is needed from a mathematical and economic standpoint to ensure global financial stability. The current fiat money passageways are corroded and ineffectual. The CB's have few tools to deal with the problems at hand and all of which tools are also ineffectual. On one edge of the blade there is a massive deflationary pressure and on the other edge of the blade there is hyperinflation. The further they strive to keep everlasting fiat the more compound the problems become and the more artificiality and manipulation is needed which brings them even further from a normalization and general economic health. It isn't out of political decision primarily that gold and silver and other real assets have been used to back money historically. It's based on natural mathematical need. It's based on obfuscated manipulation gone awry to the point where real, natural, normalization of economic markets becomes the only option left. Currently, with the new BRICS devepment bank, there exists an alternative to the FRNote as a global reserve currency and an opportunity for a conscious decision to begin a monetary transition before circumstances, of desperation, demand so. If the SDR won't contain anything of real value to back it and remains a "basket" fiat currency none of the problems of the world will go away. It is becoming too clear the problems and issues of purely fiat money and the inherent corruption and manipulation of man's domain over fiat. All around the world nations are in crisis mode and the BRIC nations aren't hoarding gold and silver for no reason. It is also a good sign that they are planning on investing in "green" renewable energy sources. It shows that they are consciously choosing to begin heading global society in a different, and more correct, direction. I think what is genuinely most probably and likely is to see gold included in any new global SDR. Regardless, purely from an economic standpoint the value of gold and silver will at some point and at some day have to rise in relation to the value of fiat money. If deflationary forces force mining companies out of business and shrink global supply the price will rise. If to combat these deflationary forces hyperinflation occurs, the price will also have to rise, at some point. Who won't want to protect their purchasing power while fiat continues to weaken other than those who have no choice but to attempt to prop up the fiat eneterprise?
Absolutely, great comment, mister. The main difference between the old and the emerging financial systems is their sustainability. Fiat not backed by anything or sound money tied to the traditionally most valuable asset inherently curbing printing insanity. The competing system (if significantly based on gold this way or another) will open a brand new perspective. The fate of the current fiat system is sealed much like every other in history. It's biggest systemic flaw is incapability to serve as a store of value; in fact, exact the opposite, this aspect is the core of the system fuelling cycles of deformed loans/borrowings, misallocated flows, leading eventually to high volatility and general uncertainty.
When both systems will be running concurrently, guess which one you'll chose in order to preserve your wealth? It's not necessary to get the old system crashed down at all. It's pretty enough to get the new one running. Tired investors already fed up with all that gambling in rigged markets as well as average Joes all over the world will soon realize where to store their hard earned money.
"Do you all really think that the CB's are gonna give up infinite fiat?"
Second that, China is hording gold, but not to make a gold back Yaun. China is likely hold PMs for WTSHTF in the West (or the East) and need some hard currency available. No way CBs or any nation is going to give up fiat as long as people are willing to accept it for trade.
FWIW as I currently see thinking unfolding for the next 5 or so years:
1. EU economy continues to deteriorate. perhaps the end of the EURO as members go there own way. Greece is the first candidate to leave.
2. US economy falls back into recession. More jobs losses, more automation, more outsourcing. Middle class slow dies. Dollar will fluctuate but not collapse. The US will still remain the clean shirt in the laundry pile.
3. Japan, QE runs its course and the value of the falls by 1/3 to 1/2. This will help its export market, but make its energy imports very expense. Lots of people in Japan go into forests, never to return
4. Chinese, I favor some sort of economic meltdown. Too much debt and mal-investment.
5. Oil production peaks and declines, putting the global economy in a permanent recession which either triggers WW3 or another great depression (but perhaps not in the next five years)
Japan and the rest of the world could get its energy for less.
http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/103001.htm
Aguy I disagree. Considering how hard working the Chinese are, I would switch their fate with that of the Americans on your list.
Indeed, just owning it won’t be enough. It will require a lot of effort to get it to a place where you can sell it for a good price and get the funds back into your own country. And e guards will be looking for it.
Best will be to hide it, suffer with the rest for the first few years and than convert it to what looks the most stable currency out there.
In Europe for example, it wqs forbidden to own gold untill 2000. Unless it where old numis coins. That’s why I stick to old gold and my silver is half bullion and half old silver numis. And no generic silver bullion because those will be the hardest to sell.
I agree completely with Alasdair. One way or another, China will make their gold hoard work for them. Once a currency or a trade note or a bond can claim unfettered backing of gold, the world will indeed beat a path to its door.
Yes.......but can you redeem their shitty toilet paper for gold or will you just be able to lease some of the rehypothicated stuff.
Obviously, no one that has gone to extraordinary lengths to horde gold like China is all of a sudden going to open up a gold window and let the shiney stuff fly right out the door.
In my lowly opinion this is just a back door method to get all those nations under the thumb of some bank or other. Does it really matter if the Chinese are running it or not?
Just cause you don't like the debt dealer on this corner doesn't mean you won't become a debt serf to the debt dealer on the opposite side of the street.
The one government world run by banks is coming to fruition one small step at time.
And the lemmings are once again running at full tilt to the cliff on the opposite side of the plateau.
hence, the criteria of unfettered.
un·fet·ter ??n?fed?r/ verb past tense: unfettered; past participle: unfettered release from restraint or inhibition.
synonyms: unrestrained, unrestricted, unconstrained, uninhibited, free, rampant, unbridled, unchecked, unmufflered, uncontrolled"his imagination is unfettered by the laws of logic"
"the choice between a planned economy and an unfettered market"
It would seem, since China has been built from a giant peasant village into a manufacturing behemoth, that they always intended China to accumulate the gold. Why? Maybe they doubted their ability to so easily swamp the US due to things like the 2nd Amendment. They were able to move manufacturing because of the greed of the corporates and the sloth of the people. They were able to use the profits to hoover up the gold. In the end, all the US will have left is the guns.
The guns, yes, to protect from any and every outside threat. The guns, and the land & other natural resources to be self sufficient. Throw in a fairly well educated population with a creative mentality, and I'll take my chances right where I am. Not China, or anywhere else in Asia. Not Russia, or some other lawless 3rd world country. Not Europe, with it's old world mentality and social constructs. Not South America with it's vast populations of peasants and crop of little oligarchies.
Boil it down, and for overall safety and comfort, my bet will be on America.
But where are we going to get one of those 'fairly well-educated population' things you mentioned?
I said 'fairly well educated' for a reason. Relative to the rest of the world, America is both prosperous and well educated. Are there pockets of places better educated? Yes, but not many.
China has $1.22 Trillion in US debt.
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/China-cuts-US-debt-holdings-in-effor...
That equals 32K tons of gold at today's prices. They have encouraged private ownership of gold for several years. Now, all they need is an excuse to confiscate that private gold just like FDR did in 1933. Seems to be the same plan, different century.
ZH snob -> more than that, by controlling the gold market you can control the value of your currency in the global trade market. When the dollar fails, and it will, China will still be in position to control the value of its labor market and shiny new industrial renaissance.
And if the entire global economy goes to shit, China can import anything via gold. You cannot be a gold advocate, and not admire China's strategy.
From that piece;
Over a 42 month period, China purchased nearly a trillion dollars in Treasury debt at ever lower yields but my best guess is their real payment wasn't paper yielding next to nothing but that they were really converting fiat into gold...but in July of 2011 when the US made clear in the debt ceiling debate that the US never intended to repay the debt or cease deficit spending...either China opted out or the US knew it was on a path to run out of gold. Either way, since July '11, interest rates around the world have collapsed on central bank demand, precious metal prices collapse on record demand, real estate and stocks soaring into record territory. The fix was in and likely involved collusion among all parties to ensure all parties got what they wanted.
Yep.
Got another Harry Dent junk mailer, declaring gold's going to $250/oz. and the dollar will remain the reserve, because demographics are king. Well then, explain how 300 million US paper holders compete with 1.3 billion Chinese, not to mention a same number of Indians.
http://numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ArticleId=12933
That same year 1971, you could buy a brand new VW super beetle for 1800 US dollars, yes. mr. Nixon "the dollar kept it's buying power", keep on talking time proves most Americans can be convinced of anything.
Russia and Argentina signed a number of deals on developing hydroelectric, nuclear and fossil-based energy and announced intentions to use each other's currencies in trade. The memorandums are a massive breakthrough for economic relations between Russia and Argentina. [...] Argentine President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner said the two sides agreed to conduct thorough consultations on using national currencies in trade calculations instead of US dollars.
Pipe Dream.....
But the Chinese currency has gone up 100% in it's world use in the last 3 years. . . . from 1.8% to 3.2% (sarc off).
to give more weight and credibility to any such efforts London has to be more involved and not the london of canadian central bankers, but the old heavy weight bankers who taught americans the alpha and beta of banking ... my two cents ... it seems to me another futile effort going nowhere.
As more nations use their own currencies in bilateral trade agreements, the dolloar's demise will accelerate. This might be an unwanted side effect of Clintons/Bush's/Barry's "Rob the Poor, Give to the Rich" Globalization.
Kinda like Blowback.
SDR would have little credibility without gold backing.
Yeah, just like the Euro. Hah ha ha ha ha ha ha
Nuffin' gonna be backed by gold.
In our dreams are the CB's gonna relinquish the right to print unlimited fiat.
Yep, they'll be printing even when the fiat dollars are known worthless.
knukles, you screw ball. The ECB has gold on their books and revalues it every quarter according to the market price. They've been waiting for this since DeGaulle.
"gold and gold receivables"....
Those receivables will get Shanghai'd, one way or another.
The word is Qingdao'd now.
China and Russia hold thoses cards. Mr. Jew-Yellen has no power in the face of the new order.
Sadly, you are right. Although this goes back a long way SDR's used to include a 17% weighting in gold. Then as the US removed itself from any link to gold it was removed. CB's know there's only a fixed amount of gold, so with any link there can only be a fixed amount of fiat issued, and CB ers won't have that. Sh*t they would rather drive interest rates to a negative 5% (to keep the debt structure from collapsing) rather than give up the right to unlimited printing.
"CB's know there's only a fixed amount of gold"
hence lies the problem ... not even close enough for international global commerce of 21 century
the argument of a finite amount of gold limiting its use in the modern world is a specious argument. like Rickards says: all you have to do is price it high enough.
Exactly. Credit bubbles are paper based. We're living in the midst of the biggest credit bubble ever created. It makes the CB induced Tulip Bulb and South Sea bubbles look like child's play.
Gold being finite is still an issue in that savings in gold would slow velocity. The reason for coin is to facilatate trade. As a store of wealth great. But as a coin of trade? Not a solution by itself. It was debased every other time. What is needed is something with a measurable value. An invariant.
unlimited digital bits.
fixed for you.
because the ultimate way is so suppress physical form of money.
( i am 2030 futurist visionnaire )
Right you are winchester. Cash is under heavy assault and will be eliminated by the accelerated issue of EBT card benefits to the FSA. Digital currencies will be our undoing. When the religious right gets it through their thick skulls that they HAVE to use digital currency, they will scream loud and long: "The Mark of the Beast!!!" This is going to be super fun to watch...
Keep stackin'
;-D
I used to argue w/ them (relatives mostly) that the SS number WAS that mark. It really pissed them off to be reminded they were already marked and had agreed to it.
....and that may be the first time in my life that I line up in support of the religious right.
The SDR would have even less credibility by having the same near-bankrupt currencies (USD, EUR, JPY, GBP) making up its composition.
And WTF is the UK and its puny GDP doing in there anyway? Were it not for tourism, and dirty and bloody offshore money flowing in (from current and deposed Aristocrats and Oligarchs), they would practically implode.
No, the SDR would have to consist of the G20 countries, and would have it backed by a basket of Precious Materials + Precious Energies, to prevent manipulation and domination by the Usual Suspects.
Real Money needs to be backed by Real Assets.
The SDR may turn out to be an intermediate step to an asset backed currency.
Half dethroning King dollar.
With WWIII the only real alterative, if history is our guide.
Just as WW2 brought us the Bretton-Woods agreement.
WW3 will bring us the ???? agreement.
The only question is, which continents will be hosting the WW3 Olympic games?
Why bother with the SDR anymore ? If we need a different fiat currency, we could trade in Yuans directly. It won't store value any better than the USD, but for trade it would be a perfect alternative...
There won't be a world war. The concept died when we dropped the first atomic bomb on Japan.
M.A.D. has not gone away, and too many countries have the bomb now to assure any kind of containment once any nuclear country is threatened. We know the wind blows all the way around the earth, and there is no such place as a safe place in a nuclear winter.
What we will continue to have is a whole bunch of proxy wars that the bankers and MIC can continue to fatten themselves on - just as long as we taxpayers keep putting up with this shit.
For those of you who don't know the film "On The Beach", read the synopsis, and check out Net Flix for some thought provoking entertainment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Beach_%281959_film%29
MAD assumes rational players.
The entire western leadership appears to be rabid.
I read the book when it first came out in the 60s., much better than the movie.
If we had rational leaders, the world would not have 10's of thousands of nuclear war heads. We have never had rational leaders, but they don't want to commit suicide.
and the fact that they are 60% US dollars.
"would have"? what the fuck are you smoking?
Jim Willie's latest, filling you in on what's going on in our corrupted political world.he's a good speaker.
http://www.silverdoctors.com/jim-willie-on-end-game-prediction-were-in-t...
How could you doen vote Jim Willie ? His forecasts have been correct. Timing is always an issue .. but his opinion and forecast of outcme is pretty strong.
Where is the gold to back the SDR? In Fort Knox? In a Chinese vault?
None of the governments have the gold they say they have on account. This is why Germany can't get their gold back from the Fed - it isn't there!
In the ground. And don't cry to me about confiscation. Gov's know that doesn't work.
I can see the gov revaluing gold to something like $3,500/oz then paying forward to the miners to buy all their reserves. After locking in the price it gets revalued again at $5K to $10K. Problem solved.
I agree the government is far too incompetent to be able to confiscate gold let lone guns. What do they want, a war?
It would be excedingly easy to confiscate the majority of the privately owned gold - simply make the populous an offer they are to greedy to refuse!
$10,000/oz. would sweep up most of the gold being hoarded, right before TPTB re-value it to $20,000/oz.
Easy Peazy
Government knows it works very well which is why they confiscate gold, guns, houses, the works.
Does anyone realize that a gold backed currency gives more reason to push gold prices down further?
I haven't seen anyone address this possibility.
Little slow on the uptake today, Ses. Gimme moar.
If gold is to be the ultimate extinguisher of debt (a position convincingly defended by Antal Fekete and many others), then the value of a nation's gold must balance the level of the nation's debt. This is not possible at current prices, but would work at a much higher (not lower) gold price.
The only other way to make the arithmetic work is to vastly increase gold holdings or aggressively decrease debt levels, and neither of those outcomes seems likely.
the other way to make the math work is to allow for motherfucking DEFAULTS and BANKRUPTCY to take place the way it's supposed to, instead of twisting natural markets into pretzels to protect your corrupt, incompetent crony capitalist pals...
the reason the economy is not healthy is because those in power need it to be sick to *stay* in power... Too Big To Fail is a great big Fuck You to the true innovators in the marketplace today... it's evil incarnate and it needs to be broken up and flushed out entirely...
It's a level of slavery that hasn't existed in 150 years. They've changed the titles and the means of collection, that's all. Instead of serf or slave, you're a taxpayer or a dollar holder.
38% of Russians were slaves in 1861. Russians are more free than they've been in centuries. It's no wonder the West is attacking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_reform_of_1861
irrelevant: if currency is gold then the price of goods will go down and be stable for centuries.
The Central nervous Banking cartel who send out independent special groups to render new policy.
http://www.ala.org/alcts/mgrps/taskforces
Ask these fucker's about who paid the bill.
Gold is the answer... says GoldMoney.com
... I am surprised...
Fiat is the answer... says Keynesian economists.
.... I am surprised...
Douche.
Not authorized to access your page? Why?
What are you, some kind of ZH/Tyler sock puppet or troll just stirring the pot?
>>Gold is the answer... says GoldMoney.com
>>... I am surprised...
It's just another play - I mean given history with its confiscation orders etc., if you worked for a gold producer or represented a mine, would you A, keep all the stuff you dig or refine OR B, sell it knowing some big gov is going to come looking for it sooner or later, best they do your customers, not you. At the same time maximising your take with high prices and floods of end of world crap. forget tin foil, it's gold foil hats on this site...
Whatever... i'm trying to keep up with this Bruce Jenner coverage... its so important that its the lead story on every website on the planet...
Brucetta is one ugly ass broad!
Wonder if she'll get a huge butt enlargement to match the rest of his screwed up family? Enquiring minds want to know!
Anything to draw in more morons!
Bruce won the gold in '76, but it appears to have been rehypothecated.
Preaching to the choir....and we all know how un-corruptible gold-backed systems have proven in the past....it's all ultimately about human greed and corruptibility....as the wheel goes round and round. Yawn.
Oh yes, fear porn. So that new China development bank and it's $50 billion seed money. Wow. Isn't that half what Zuckerberg is worth? So anyway, and how much does the IMF have? Oh yeah, $750 Billion in reserves. And what does the China development bank seek to do? Oh yeah, build better transportation from China through Eurasia; something Europe and the west doesn't want and that the IMF mysteriously wouldn't help them with.
Maybe Peter Schiff can be one of their finacial advisors.
$50 Billion at today's RMB/USD exchange, presumably. If the currencies moved to parity, that would look a lot better, no? This is obviously a start of a longer term trend. The shifts in the political and economic landscape will lead to a different world tomorrow.
Also.. what does Zuckerberg have to do with anything? Firstly he's estimated to be around ~35 billion USD, not 100. Secondly, a lot of that "wealth" is presumably tied up in ownership rights to a company which is a giant advertising and data gathering scheme. That company is a lemon in the economic sense- a shiny, fad-driven, "bag of squashed assholes" of a company which will eventually end up like many of the Dot Coms.
China invests in real assets. Real productive assets. I would know. I've seen the way in which the Chinese have been investing a portion of their wealth in other nations (in South East Asia) first hand. Funding infrastructure projects, ports, banking hubs etc. They are very long term investors as a country, and most of the West these days don't have the foresight to see past the tip of their own nose.
"China invests in real assets. Real productive assets."
like ghost cities etc.
getouttahere with that noise...
Yeah. And most of the world's industrial production. There are a few very high quality production hubs elsewhere (Germany, Japan, S. Korea etc.) but for the most part they have stolen the market share.
The behavior of the Chinese government is not representative of the people. In the US everyone "invests" in time wasting gimmicks like Candy Crush, Facebook, Apple Apps etc.
They will certainly have problems in the short term.. but then so did the USA when it was rising. Time will tell, but I believe China is going to take a prominent place in future, and you do not rise from rock bottom to the top by making poor decisions.
Oh, also, I've noticed that lots of the exports coming out of China are really poor quality lately. Even more so than in the past. We'll see if they are starting to turn over their production and their wealth extraction from the West within the country itself as their people start to consume more, of if they are just the greatest economic bubble machine in history pretty soon.
If they are following the US trajectory, we will probably see some global conflicts whereby they will start to put that industrialization toward military production in a bid to expand their Empire. Ideally conflicts started by other countries out of desperation. From there their influence will grow.
China can produce things., Americans are even too stupid to manufacture anything except hamburgers and tacos. Can't even make a lousy washing machine.
China GDP is about 40% less than U.S. GDP, and they have over 3 times as many mouths to feed. You figure it out.
We produce more high tech goods than any other country...period. Robotics will not be kind to labor anywhere, but China faces some impossible challenges keeping 1.2 billion hands occupied and productive, as factories close and robotic production moves back to be near merkets. The Chinese supply chain is a bitch.
what a load of fucking horseshit... if you set aside US manufacturing by itself, it'd be the ninth largest economy in the world... it accounts for 12% of US GDP... that contribution to US GDP has _increased_ by 21% since 2009... it's the most productive sector of any economy anywhere in the world, period, end of story
I constantly see this meme of the US doesn't make anything, and it's just like anything else that gets repeated a million times when it's wrong... it's still wrong no matter how many times you say it
They make weapons, and the Chinese are rapidly nipping at those heels too. Look at Turkey going with the Chinese air defense system.
you do realize that, if you took the top 500 mfg companies in the US by revenue and made a country out of them, that country would have the 3rd largest GDP in the world?
you really think some chopstick piece of shit air defense systems sold to Turkey are going to compete with that? you're DELUSIONAL
hell, most everyone on this board obviously has no grasp of the amount of economic might the world has to deal with when facing the US... it's frighteningly comical, especially when it comes from the Russo- and China-philes around here... let's try dealing in fucking reality just this once for a change, ok? trust me, the squirrel & moose me-play-joke world domination plans will work much better when you put the state propaganda rose colored glasses down and see the world with your own eyes...
How do you explain the labor force numbers then (at 1970's levels). Unemployment at close to 20%? 48 million on food stamps? Trillions in debt.
Who the fuck are you kidding?
IF??
If you cut out the only thing that matters, then the US looks ok!
Sounds like the same way we count inflation, just cut out those pesky numbers that move too fast.
If the U.S. changed it's tariff policies tomorrow and made Chinese goods more expensive, China would be dealing with a revolution in about 2 weeks as hungry peasants stormed government offices when the factories closed.
The U.S. and Europe built China over the past 3-4 decades, and still controls their destiny with our consumer markets. I don't care how many factories you have. If you don't have the end consumer, you don't have much of anything of value for very long. And China still has a long way to go to become a self-sustaining economy. Their leaders and those factory owners know this, too, which is why they send as much wealth as they can out of the country.....even send their wives to foreign lands for childbirth so they can gain a different citizenship.
Also you do not know what the purpose behind those "ghost cities" is. China may expect a population boom. They may be looking to internationalize and attract top notch human capital (when their currency inevitably appreciates).
It could just be that they expended all other real assets in terms of productive capacity and thought it was better to churn over the excess into a real asset like housing, rather than to buy US Treasuries, or international stocks..
Who knows?
I know you are wrong about their ghost cities. They are monuments to greed and mismanagement as they sit rotting and growing moldy.
I know too that "inevitably" is a very big word that tends to get folks in trouble.
We'll check back in 10 years and see where we're at yeah?
China is probably going to capsize Europe and the US just on the basis that their politicians cannot think more than 4 years in advance. It's like playing a game of chess with a chess master who has all the iterations of your next 3 moves mapped out in his head.
PS: as for your post above-
"China GDP is about 40% less than U.S. GDP, and they have over 3 times as many mouths to feed. You figure it out."
Their people are only about 45 years out of a horrendously oppressive regime where millions died to economic mismanagement. I'd say that the expectation of the average Chinese person is probably set a lot lower than your typical American.
We produce more high tech goods than any other country...period. Robotics will not be kind to labor anywhere, but China faces some impossible challenges keeping 1.2 billion hands occupied and productive, as factories close and robotic production moves back to be near merkets. The Chinese supply chain is a bitch.
No. Actually you don't. What you do very well is own supply chains which extract profits from other the labor of other countries. Namely S. Korea, Germany, Japan etc. Most of the "high tech goods" are produced abroad, in terms of their manufacture and assembly, with perhaps the exception of military hardware for obvious reasons.
You should look at the breakdown of the assembly of an Apple iPad, or iPhone next time. Marketed and designed by the US (although probably designed by foreign born engineers who have moved to the US and are paid in US Dollars.) The high end production is in Japan, the low end production is in China. Assembly in Germany.
You would be amazed at how many really brilliant minds have moved to the US from other countries, but are not US born and bred. The US has floated above the rest of the world by poaching their human capital. If the US Dollar were to devalue substantially, say for instance, it lost its reserve status, I wonder how many of them would hang around?
It has been a pretty common thing in places like the UK for very innovative British start-ups to hit the medium-sized business threshold and get bought out by a US owner with bags of cash. You give the US a lot more credit than it (currently) deserves. Great country? Yes, it was. You guys had a fantastic system of property rights, freedom, a focus on innovation and hard work.
Today? I seriously have my doubts. These days it seems to be borne upon the back of its military might and currency dominance with the two being inter-related. How do you afford an enormous army when you can no longer pay them in your national currency?
I understand that this may be an unpopular view for many Americans (sorry if so) and I understand that there will be a knee-jerk reaction for cognitive dissonance to kick in and denial to take hold. I've lived a large part of my life in the UK, I understand what it is like to be on the arse-end of a sliding empire. Don't be one of those people who lives in the past and cannot see the reality as it takes hold. I still see those people all of the time, and Britain is no longer "Great", nor is it "United" anymore and the US has all of the hallmarks of heading that direction in the longer term.
we don't need to check back in 10 years... many of them have been sitting rotting for that time already...
What ghost cities? Have you checked into any of the ghost city news since 2011? There are zero ghost cities now. It was just typical anti-china propaganda that comes from the US mainstream media. They used Q.E. money to buy places where people could live. What did the U.S. do? Funnel it to bankers.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=china+ghost+cities
yeah, sure, whatever
12 Chinese = 1 American....
"Per Capita" = Res Judicata....
To Put this in Terms for the Simple Minded and Ignorant to understand:
China would have tp BECOME the Entire World Economy by themselves; and then would ONLY EQUAL Americans in Productivity.
And once again, the Question that ENDS ALL DISCUSSION:
How Much Gold will China Need to back up its $ 25-30 Trillion + FIAT ?
The Diffference bewtween IGNORANCE and STUPIDITY is that the former can be cured by APPLICATION and EFFORT; The latter is a Condition, rarely cured.
Some of these guys are either willfully ignorant or willfully obtuse. Not sure which, but they know very little about China's fragile place in the world.
Wrong.
China could exceed the US economy and world total as it stands today: it's only a matter of logistics, supply chain, deals & efficiency.
It can be done. Not saying it will but it could.
Be careful, they are having "putin-gasams".
I am not really a fan of Putin for what it's worth.. I just don't walk around with my head jammed firmly up my arse. It's obvious from the way the US is behaving that its grip on power is slipping rapidly.
I'm actually quite worried they will do something desperate and get a lot of people killed.
".........Maybe Peter Schiff can be one of their financial advisors......."
Indeed.
I agree that the inclusion of the renminbi in the SDR is probably a no-brainer from a logical and economic perspective, absent other overriding political considerations that held sway in 2010, but which have probably further weakened since then.
This said, the cabal benefits a lot (in both political and economic ways) from the control that they have over the world's central banks which are still very US$ focused, and they will undoubtedly continue to be uncomfortable with the implications of waning US$ emphasis in the world monetary order (the devil you know, so to speak). I suspect that the changes that have been discussed in this article will take effect, but that the transition may not be very graceful - and that there may be a number of chaotic false starts.
The cabal is spoiled, having had at least a 100 year reign of "collusion rights" since the formation of the Fed in the early 20th century. I am not sure that they are mature enough to allow a graceful transformation and may overplay their hand by trying to hang on to power longer. They may even take active measures to destabilize the system to reduce the likelihood that they will lose power - on the theory that their chances of survival are higher under a chaotic environment - even if it hurts the peoples that they are chartered to protect. Globalists have never cried many tears for their peoples and there is no particular reason to believe that they would start now.
It is also far from clear that the Chinese will properly judge the strength of their hand, as their economy is a lot weaker than the press has implied. They may make some political mistakes that make it easier for the cabal to hang on under false pretenses.
Meanwhile the rest of us will continue to pay the bills.
I like Alasdair Macleod, but to assume that there will be some kind of peaceful, sensible solution to our current monetary problem is wishful thinking.
We'll see upheaval, unrest, wars etc. Maybe in the 11th hour, or after some public executions, a sensible solution will be considered. Otherwise there will be no direct conflict, but competing monetary systems (brought about through two different superpowers at odds with one another) in a similar fashion to the Cold War style fissioning of international interests. Anyone who believes that somehow politicians and the (real) seat of power will just give up everything for the greater good, has clearly not studied history, or is a hopeless optimist. Power doesn't die quietly, it retains its iron grip, is supplanted through cunning, or it crashes and burns in flames. I do not see the second option as a possibility here.
A gold backed coin? Ya right show me one of the BRICS that does not spend more than it takes in. Not on paper but in real terms/taxes.
Thats why governments love fiat. They might say this new fiat is backed by gold but it is not gonna happen. Backing is not the same as gold coins. The SDR is going to be a global fiat. There is no government that could pay its workers in gold. Let alone provide enough liquidity to run an economy on. So they will lie. Because thats how psycopaths roll.
The global SDR is not against US goals, it is US goals.
It makes what the Bernank tried to do easier and more complete because all the major players take part rather than try and suboptimize for their own currency.
The US has not been fighting the SDR because it is what they want. A worldwide concerted Race to the Bottom with the Bankster in control..
Yeppers. By controling the very means of trade. Barter only works for people that do produce real value.
BRICS are made of gold. When Modi unloads 20,000 tons of gold on the market we will see double digit prices. The US selling of 8300 tons since 1971 will be nothing in comparison.
If 20K tons were dumped on the market; the price would drop. Just like if all the sea ice were to melt; the water levels would drop, not rise.
You're an incredible troll and idiot if you think Indians would "give up" their gold or trade it for paper or a promise.
That's not their culture - just surf for pictures of Indian brides and get a fucking clue. They are also not likely to strip their holy places for financial reasons - they've had more than enough famines and wars in the last 2000 years to have done it by now.
Unlike modern American sheep, they still believe gold is money and that you can't print prosperity since ink and paper are far too cheap.
It would only be a new boss, same as the old boss.
Missles will fly before the SDR is ever crowned.
Get real.
There will NEVER be any true resemblance of a true GOLD STANDARD; maybe some illusion of one at best to fool people. Why? Because the future will be the use of electronic transfer of "moneys", which we have seen in various forms over the past 50 years. (i.e. cash to checking to credit cards to PayPal and on it goes with Bitcoin and ApplePay). Paper and coins will be a thing of the past within 20 years.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The use of "digital" money allows for even greater corruption across all borders and this is what mankind is all about; especially the eliteists. Honesty in no longer a virtue and the whole world body is rotten from the head down to the toe. Deception and misery are the "new morality" for the world; so expect things to continue accelerating in the downward spiral, for as the morality of the world is redefined, so to is the rot associated with it and everyone has the disease as it is manifested in greater numbers and higher degrees. Only the few escape its grip.
---I am not against owning physical metal; that cannot "hurt", but it is not the future---
Well said if I may say so myself. :O
Honesty was never a virtue.
If offloading bad things onto others could be done, it was done. It will always be that way.
A debt based fiat currency world is a way to do that.
Agreed. Unless there is a reversal of culture, the new Dark Ages are a decade or two away...
Dark ages. Depends on how you define it. Two world wars and hundreds of millions of dead, since 1913, would beg to differ.
Here's why our current slaves masters use that term;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury
DaveO you have no idea of what the Dark Ages were aparentrly. To cite 2 WW's over the last 100 years and nillions dead means nothing. You have missed the point and to keep referencing wikipedia with youer comments is shallow.
Desist with your comments and just read and learn.