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An 'Exhausted' Greek Citizen Speaks Out
Authored by Pantelis Boukalas, originally posted at ekathimerini,
It is so exhausting and unpleasant for average Greek citizens to keep hearing for weeks now that the country’s cash reserves will run out in two months, one month, next week, and especially when this is reported in a snide manner. It erodes what little courage they have left after five depressing years of austerity to hear that bankruptcy will come, is coming, has come: despite the fact that they suffered so much to avert it; despite tolerating unemployment or under-employment or a meager salary because they were told that this is how it should be; despite being blamed for their own suffering without any proof of culpability; despite seeing their incomes decline by half or more; despite seeing the health, welfare and education systems “reformed” into oblivion.
It is irrational – and degrading – for Greek citizens to keep hearing that the country’s ills are all their fault, from the start of the crisis to its first manifestations and through the progression of the drama all the way to the current quagmire. It is painful and insulting that Greeks are being treated like children (for political rather than economic reasons) by the troika or, as they are known now, “the institutions.” This treatment saps their remaining strength and threatens to crush them until they give up, consign their futures to fate, or push them in the opposite direction.
It is also irrational to albeit shaken Greek minds that they are being forced to continue, with little change, a course of treatment that has already been proved to be responsible for sky-high unemployment, frozen growth, the cancer of business closures and a rise in suicides, acknowledged by international organizations.
Sure, we can accept that respecting the citizens’ mandate, as it is expressed at the ballot box, is no longer a must in Europe. This is already apparent from the teams of technocrats in Italy and Brussels who, if not necessarily appointed by Brussels were certainly not elected by the people. It is apparent in the blunt manner of German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble who recently lamented the fact that Parliament stands in the way of reforms in France. But the problem is that Europe also doesn’t seem too bothered about the facts or numbers either.
It is unbearable for Greeks to watch the drama of the negotiations rendered (either simplistically or maliciously) as though it were a western, in which the others are Good and Greece is both the Bad and the Ugly. If this perception is actually reflective of the real situation, irrespective of whether it’s being played up a bit for the sake of the drama, then there is a very real fear that a union which solves its differences in High Noon style is no longer a union.
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You get the government you deserve.
Suck it up and deal with it.
Don't tell me you didn't vote for it, because I know you did.
That was their first mistake..... voting, and expecting a different outcome.
Dear Mr Fed up Greek
It is your fault. Decades of socialist entitlement welfare state spending demanded by you and your fellow electorate have destroyed your state finances. You are now having to pull back all the prosperity you already spent and it is painful.
The only reconciliation you can take is that everyone else is right in line behind you and can expect the same or worse ...... eventually
Dear Mr Fed up Greek
It is your fault
THANK YOU!!!
Well if that is correct, then it is my fault that the USA keeps bombing brown people at weddings.
But, I already have divoced myself from the government to a great degree, so what else must I do for it to NOT be my fault?
I'm listening.
pods
The wages of obedience.
But haven't most Greeks already disobeyed and moved outside the system? Hence the need for greater capital controls.
I mean, I see this weekly, whenever we ship anything to the EU. I'd rather tweaze my taint that try to get something in there. They always want a cut, whether it is commercial or, in our case, not. Maddening.
pods
BOY, What a mental PICTURE! Made me laugh out loud........that'ed be some delicate work there! HA!
Tweeze your Taint!
Thanks for the great laugh!
High Noon?
Leave Gary Cooper out of it, please.
He's passed on 54 years ago.
BOY, What a mental PICTURE! Made me laugh out loud........that'ed be some delicate work there! HA!
Tweeze your Taint!
Thanks for the great laugh!
"The wages of obedience".
But... but... some ancient peasant said that poverty, turning the other cheek and forgiving GS is good.
Important lesson.
If you are using fiat currency then NEVER GIVE UP THE RIGHT TO PRINT IT!
ummm...hasn't the US gov't done that exact same thing by allowing the Federal Reserve Bank to print our money, which, even better yet, is 'loaned' to us, by the very same Federal Reserve Bank? Congress has the power to print money. They abrogated that right in order to spend as much as they want and STILL get re-elected. We aren't much better than the Greeks...and ultimately we're going to suffer much the same fate.
Yes all nations under the western banking system will be enslaved. The others destroyed.
-Rothschild & Al Manifesto-
"We aren't much better than the Greeks...and ultimately we're going to suffer much the same fate."
Which is why you should be stacking phyzz for all your worth. Once Greece defaults and the EU banking system implodes because all the derivatives are triggered, the Great Reset will commence and the whole world will be swept up into the fiscal cauldron. Time is short.
Which is why you should be stacking phyzz for all your worth.
yep.
plus tp, chocolate, cigs, bullets, and baby wipes
There are a number of people that love to attach responsibility to us when things go bad- like it was us that invented this system where we select sociopaths to lead us every two years. Or like there is something we can do about it. We get the government we deserve. The fuck we do- we have gotten something far worse than that.
The fact is, this guy is still participating at the ballot box knowing full well that it will do no good. That's how it's his fault. At some point in time the Greeks need to take matters into their own hands. Just as we will have to further on down the road. If we don't the future is grim.
I don't see where he said he was participating. I only see where he says that voting doesn't matter due to decisions being made by Technocrats in Brussels (and that he was okay with it but the problem is simply numbers).
The Greek people are lambasted constantly for their laziness, blah blah blah, but in reality, the system is just doing what it does. It takes out the most levereged first. And that be Greece at the moment. But Italy, Spain and others are right behind it.
I think this guy is pointing to the SYSTEM and that is important. He basically says the Greek people have taken it up the ass for 5 years to still be in the club, and there is no end in sight.
pods
whatever decisions are ever taken by "Technocrats", in Europe, they are always supported by the elected bodies that appointed them, and can recall them, and rescind those decisions
but pointing to Brussels when it comes to Greece is simply wrong, because it's simply not true
this guy, btw, is not mentioning that the majority of Greeks do not want to exchange the EUR with a new Drachma. in fact, even the Tsipras Cabinet does not want that
and "voting does not seem to matter" is a point made by the Tsipras Cabinet. which, by that, is suggesting that deals cut by the previous Greek government do not apply to them
but they are being disingenuos by it, then the relevant deals were made by treaties. which were ratified by the previous Greek Parliament, and are The Law, even for the Tsipras Government
except if they go to Parliament and rescind them, something they don't seem to want to do. so it's... smoke and mirrors and a lot of empty talking points, I fear
They need to default on the debt and then balance their budget, even if that means cutting social programs.
The future is grim?
I have a news flash for you, it is grim right now. All you guys trying to assign blame need to understand a basic principle in life......things deteriorate......naturally.
I think Newton has a law about that. Everything winds down.....not up. It takes energy/force to wind up. The Greeks have done the same thing the whole world has done.......look for and taken the easiest road at any given moment. Then entire civilized population of this planet is doing just that. Know what that leads to? Seen any 600 lb people lately?
Without some form of energy/force pushing against the "natural" flow, things will deteriorate at a much faster pace. I look at history and see the energy/force/sacrifice that was given to wind up the US. After the Civil War, we changed our principle direction. Once the West was settled, we entered the 1900's and since the 1920's, politicians have gone to the highest bidder, and it has taken 80 years for technology and industrialization to spread the corruption rot to all corners of America. No one, and I mean no one, has pushed back against the rot since the Civil war.
We say we don't negotiate with criminals but that is EXACTLY what we do everyday in our political system. We negotiate a lesser evil with a group of criminals, but each time the "lesser" is more than it was last time.....deterioration. Real change never comes without force and neither is it maintained without force. Once the force is removed, the natural deterioration picks right back up. As we have all realized, the "passive" act of voting.......CHANGES NOTHING! Criminals don't give a damn about laws. Sophisticated criminals use laws to further their criminal activity to rob the law abiding.
All that to say, how can you arrogant asses sit there and point the finger at someone else and say they are getting what they deserve when you are doing the EXACT same thing? As if the same result they are "getting" won't be the EXACT same result you will get. Don't take it out on the Greek people because their government has offered them the "path of least resistance" and is not exacting the price required. We have done the same....to an even greater degree.
it's called entropy.
Protest.
You're asking the question decades too late. Still listening?
Hey VFG, I am greek and although it's supposedly mandatory to vote I have only voted once in my life (in 2012 for Kammenos lol). Please explain how I am better off for it.
I still wont vote for anyone I am not at least 90% behind (e.g. Ron Paul), but that doesn't make life any better.
Btw, do you have the government you deserve?
YOu could trace the issue back to GS who conspired with your politicians to fudge numbers to make your economic situation better than it was?
If you had faced the weakness then, and improved your situation before applying to the EU, you would be less beholden to the Vampires of Finance that now own your ass.
Either way, there will be pain. At least make it count for something.
Focus on the real animals: GS, your politicians and yourself
Indeed, now many European central banksters are GS alumni. GS profited from the setup and profited from the pre-planned take down - controlled demolition if you will - of the Greek economy and ideally the EU economy. Fuck the EU is the key phrase.
you mean: The Vampire Squid Firmly Attached To The Face Of Humanity fucked Greece's books, and so fucked Greece and Germany et al, and so "Fuck the EU"... as Nuland said, dismissing what the EU wanted in regard to Ukraine. Indeed, "Fuck the EU" must be the key phrase
I sincerely hope that some smart Greek patriots with access to all the numbers (as fuzzy as they may be) have ran them to find out if they can merely dissolve their association with the EU, default on all of these "loans" and find some way of sustaining their nation with only what it has.
Because this strapped to the bed to be kept barely alive to keep donating blood to the EU is simply not going to continue.
At a certain point, you have to entertain the possibility that you are going to go bankrupt. So I really hope that someone there is starting to move whatever assets they have left for this contingency.
The people of Greee will go on. Whether the system continues, well that is another situation entirely.
Even the lowest Greek can see there is no future in borrowing for a 5th time to mostly pay off the 3rd bailout, with the 4th still to mature, while the situation on the ground worsens.
There is too much debt. Debt that the EU cannot let Greece default on, and which Greece surely cannot pay.
pods
"...strapped to the bed to be kept barely alive to keep donating blood to the EU is simply not going to continue"
well, the problem is that it is not so. The EU as such has very little to do with it, and Greece does not owe to the EU
Three quarters of the sovereign debt of Greece is to Germany, The Netherlands and a few more... directly. Loans that do not pay any interest until 2023
the biggest payments that Greece is doing this year are to the IMF. That's what is often called "US TaxPayer Money". That's the same "Institution", by the way, that the BRICS wish to reform, and that the US Congress is refusing to do, which then lead to this year's formation of the China led AIIB
anyway, if you take those 2023 loans out of the picture... and you do the math, then... well, then the picture looks quite differently
sure, you can argue that Greece has to pay the second biggest lender, this year. that's the ECB (which is not the EU, and has a different membership). But this leaves out the fact that Emergency Liquidity Loans are, as the name implies, well, yes, emergency liquidity
but no, this still does not make the picture resemble reality. the fact is that the current Greek gov could balance it's budget, this year. If it wanted to. But it looks like it's exactly what they do not want
so no, for 2015 it's not a question of not being able to pay, it's a question of will, and a question of debating things due in 2023 well in advance or not, and a lot of haggling, and the story of a fresh parliament with fresh forces still trying to find their political footing while trying to open all discussions on all fronts at the same time
and yes, this is of course the cause of a lot of exaustion from the Greek citizen
So the Emergency Liquidity Loans were conjured up due to Greece being in a liquidity crisis correct? If so, well then repayment shouldn't really be that bad.
Now, if these "loans" were not in fact, for "liquidity" but to paper over SOLVENCY (mainly of banks in case of sovereign default), well the origination of the loans in the first place would the an act of fraud.
And most of the current "loans" were in fact to pay off the BANKS. So in reality, yes, Greece owes debt to Germany, the ECB, etc, but these loans merely laundered the debt of the damn banks.
You are getting into deeper European politics than I know of Ghordius, which I freely admit. The EU maybe not be the ECB. But in big picture terms, does the EU depend on the solvency of the ECB to continue?
Europe must be really good at compartmentalization, aka "ringfencing" as all the alphabet soup agencies seem to be portrayed as independent, self sustaining organisms.
Tell me, can the EU flourish without the ECB?
pods
the EU, as any club, depends on the solvency of the contributing members, so of the 28 countries. and out of them, only 19 use the EUR
but again, the EU is neither an "alphabet soup agency" nor a Union like the US, and any of it's members can flourish without the EUR...
... if you forget, for a moment, the 800-pound gorilla in the room: The Mighty Dollar, engaged in a currency war with China, and so with the whole world
tell me, would the US flourish if we'd switch to gold?
The US is going down the toilet using the dollar, I would hardly call that flourishing.
This is about the EU though.
Why all of this "help" going to Greece, which clearly cannot repay these loans?
It all comes down to protecting the banks and the currency.
Greece was the low man on the totem pole. But after Greece is drawn and quartered and sold off to the banks, who is next to protect the Euro and all the institutions surrounding it?
You can dive into the EU minutia all you want. But within the EU structure, there are technocrats running things. That is said by those in Europe, not by me. And they are there to protect the banks and currency.
pods
pods
the truth about those loans is that they can be repaid... eventually. the real fight is about the budget
yes, you are right, most of this debt was done in order to protect banks. and that's Greece's problem, at the moment: how to save Greek banks
I see you did not get the gist of my question: what would happen if we europeans would adopt gold. perhaps I have to find a way to explain that, eventually
"But within the EU structure, there are technocrats running things. That is said by those in Europe, not by me."
of course. we do have plenty of different opinions. but they don't tell you what they run, do they? they like to point to the technocrats, while the real decisions are taken by the politicians
a state of affairs that politicians themselves somehow encourage, btw. I'll try to explain, next time. perhaps I'll find a way
pods there are capable patriots but they are few and far between. The character(s) needed would have to be truly heroic at this point. When you are hanging by a thread like most greeks are it is difficult to make decisions that aren't driven by fear...until you have nothing left to lose. Greece will get to that point either way it seems, and soon.
"Denial and Stockholm Syndrome strong in peasants is" -Yoda
That's why the predators are rich and their prey is not.
Entitlements or not, a nation that's forced to use a currency that is perhaps 30% too strong for its economy over any significant lenght of time will be destroyed. It will be pummeled into the ground by poverty and then disperse like homeless beggars after their land has been stolen. It's as simple as that.
are you saying that state servants in Greece are being paid 30% too much? are you saying that Greek pensions should be cut by 30%? both things are possible to do, for the Greek government
meanwhile, watch the USD getting stronger and stronger
It wouldn't matter how relatively strong the currency is if the wages could adjust to take that into account. The state needs to balance its budget but doesn't want to, because in a democracy, the voters want their social welfare benefits and don't care whether the state can afford them.
I'm mostly talking about a set up to fail foreign trade situation and the resulting debt slavery. This is absolutely critical for a normal country that doesn't have a petro-reserve currency as its main export "commodity" and can therefore suck the world dry to compensate for its gutted real economy and pay for wars to enforce its currency upon the world.
They don't really voted Syriza, they voted "We don't want to do more sacrifices, so GIVE US MORE MONEY", that and the insolence of Varoufakis and Tsipras is all their policy. Now, they realised that the rest of european people are not as idiots as they thought.
It is debateable whether the government calls the shots, when the Troika along with the German austerists keep a gun pointed to their balls.
Coercion may work for a while, but democracy it is not.
As such, it is somewhat illogical to blame the voters for it.
Yet OECD statistics confirm exactly the opposite. Between 2009 and 2014 Gross national income (GNI) per capita declined by 10.8%, Economic Growth declined by 12.8%, Government deficits and debt increased by 28%, average tax for the AVERAGE worker in Greece for this period is the highest on earth 43% income tax (!!!), trade decreased by 63%, foreign direct investment decreased by 626% (yes indeed 626% you heard well), interest rates increased by 51% (you heard well 51%), energy prices increased by 57%, unemployment mounted to 27.8% (long term unemployment was 63% (!!!) on 12/12/2014) , public health expenditure decreased by 87% (yes 87% you heard well), education expenditure decreased by 156% (156% you heard well), and 1 out of 2 small and medium size enterprises closed down. We are always talking for the period 2009 - 2014. Yet, the new Greek government came to power on 25/01/2015. Do you still blame the Greek people because they democratically changed government? Well, the numbers speak by themselves. Just may always wish to have a look here: http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/economics/country-statistical-profile-greec... --- Cheers.
Jews win again.
Go fuck off already Jonesy. Your bullshit isn't contributing anything to the discussion here. Let the adults talk among ourselves.
You know what? I don't give a flying fuck you stupid shits. You keep playing by their rules and this is what you get.
Coming to a once great republic near you.
A human being is telling it like it is.
The Troika and European Union are not human, they are the bill collectors who do not give a damn whether the Greeks eat or survive, as long as they get their money.
Greeks, maybe it is time to just shut the door and go it on your own. There will be countries who will do business with you, if not I will.
EU, FED, ECB, IMF - all the same guys in backround with thousands of clowns paid by them to force the world playing by their rules.
Those guys wage wars, they don't fucking care about some Greece. They are going to attack Russia and China, for them Greece is just a bad joke. Just look what they do in Ukraine or what ISIS has been doing, it's all the same.
Nazi money changers with HQ in DC and City.
You just nailed it.......1000%! Is there a survivable remedy?
Cherry Picker:
This is no longer about Greece or the Greeks. These loans have been written down once already (on an NPV basis) and no one expects them to be paid even on the new maturity schedule or the soon-to-be-renegotiated longer schedule.
This theatrical performance is about keeping Spain, Italy, Portugal etc. in line with EU policy.
They're like mountain climbers all tethered together. When one goes over the cliff they inevitably drag the rest along with them.
He's exhausted from hauling around those eyebrows, dang.
Andy Rooney downvoted you from the grave.
"Troika, Institutions", hmm can't find the proper descriptive for 3 entities led by the germans that suppress a population.
How about, "Axis"?
Troika or institutions, the 3 aren't really "led by Germans"
the IMF is led by a French and it's based in Washington. The biggest shareholder of the IMF is, btw, the US of A, so hardly "led by Germans"
the ECB is led by an Italian, while yes, it's based in Frankfurt, Germany. But it's based on the consensus of 19 national bank governors, so hardly "led by Germans"
the EU is "led" by, depending from the role, either a Polish man or a Luxembourger. but the role of the EU in the Troika was to try to keep the IMF people and the ECB people from getting to blows
meanwhile the creditors of Greece are, in order of importance, Germany, The Netherlands, Finland, and a few more
but yes, at the end a lot of Continental Consensus is, if you want, based on the initiative the Big Three Plus The Small Three, the Real Losers of the Second World: France, Germany and Italy with Belgium, The Netherlands and Luxembourg. The Founders of the EU
who wish to make sure that we won't get another such Great Window Breaking Exercise on this continent, thank you very much
so yes, from the point of a True Atlanticist and Great Globalization Supporter, I guess "Axis" would be apt. nevertheless I don't agree on "suppress a population"
The Founders of the EU
Lackies doing the bidding of another party
pray tell which party. meanwhile, as for "cowards", when you say "lackeys"... well, please point to the "non-lackeys", so that the weak have something to look up to. who?
Wrong. The Greeks deserve to stay in the euro because they are hard workers and have fought for it. All that you say is lies, and false and racist discrimination against the people of Greece supported by absolutely no evidence. The fact, as per OECD Report 2015, is that the Greeks are the second most hard working people on earth and the most hard working people in the EU with 2037 average annual working hours actually worked per worker. The world average is 1755 hours per annum, with Germany and USA lagging well beyond the average at 1388 hours and 1788 hours per annum respectively. You may like to have a look here: https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS - (when Greeks speak they speak with solid evidence, not with speculations). And be sure about it, we will fight your racism, discrimination and propaganda to the end, We will expose you with true and official evidence in every single internet site in the WWW, in every country in the world and in every language spoken in this earth, whether it is English, German, Hindi, Chinese, Telagu, Swahili, Afrikaans, Russian, Korean, French, Spanish, Mongolian, or whatever. The whole world will learn how unjustly and discriminately you attack the Greek people t5hat have never harmed you based solely on your hatred, disrepect for others, and hideous discrimination. You will find out that what it means to be Greek, we promise you !!! Cheers :)
who wish to make sure that we won't get another such Great Window Breaking Exercise on this continent, thank you very much
good luck with that.
I see the tribe are busy Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. What's next, another crack at Russia ;-)
the biggest "crack at Russia" is usually taken by Poland
watch how Putin wanted to ride a motorbike through Europe, and note how the Polish bikers and the Polish government are against it, and forbade it
Wrong. The Greeks deserve to stay in the euro because they are hard workers and have fought for it. All that you say is lies, and false and racist discrimination against the people of Greece supported by absolutely no evidence. The fact, as per OECD Report 2015, is that the Greeks are the second most hard working people on earth and the most hard working people in the EU with 2037 average annual working hours actually worked per worker. The world average is 1755 hours per annum, with Germany and USA lagging well beyond the average at 1388 hours and 1788 hours per annum respectively. You may like to have a look here: https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS - (when Greeks speak they speak with solid evidence, not with speculations). And be sure about it, we will fight your racism, discrimination and propaganda to the end, We will expose you with true and official evidence in every single internet site in the WWW, in every country in the world and in every language spoken in this earth, whether it is English, German, Hindi, Chinese, Telagu, Swahili, Afrikaans, Russian, Korean, French, Spanish, Mongolian, or whatever. The whole world will learn how unjustly and discriminately you attack the Greek people t5hat have never harmed you based solely on your hatred, disrepect for others, and hideous discrimination. You will find out that what it means to be Greek, we promise you !!! Cheers :)
The article presents no proposals. It is whinging whiney. However, it is clearly angry too. If the collective anger of the Greek people can be channeled into a real movement with a program, then solutions will emerge. Syriza is a failure.
Yet OECD statistics confirm exactly the opposite. Between 2009 and 2014 Gross national income (GNI) per capita declined by 10.8%, Economic Growth declined by 12.8%, Government deficits and debt increased by 28%, average tax for the AVERAGE worker in Greece for this period is the highest on earth 43% income tax (!!!), trade decreased by 63%, foreign direct investment decreased by 626% (yes indeed 626% you heard well), interest rates increased by 51% (you heard well 51%), energy prices increased by 57%, unemployment mounted to 27.8% (long term unemployment was 63% (!!!) on 12/12/2014) , public health expenditure decreased by 87% (yes 87% you heard well), education expenditure decreased by 156% (156% you heard well), and 1 out of 2 small and medium size enterprises closed down. We are always talking for the period 2009 - 2014. Yet, the new Greek government came to power on 25/01/2015. SYRIZA is a failure? How come? The numbers speak by themselves. The previous Greek governments created this situation. SYRIZA just found it ! The numbers speak by themselves. The OECD official statistics for the period 2009 - 2014 are here: http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/economics/country-statistical-profile-greec...
edit duplicate
You would have been best served by quitting the EU 5 years ago and returning to the Drachma. By now you would have had at least a functioning economy with money circulating among the people instead of having your economic blood skimmed off by the EU vampires. To recover, you need to take your country back from the bankers.
You would have been best served by quitting the EU 5 years ago and returning to the Drachma.
You don't really understand how the "Union" functions, obviously. The more nations which are part of the Eurozone, the greater sphere of influence Brussels has. Greece would not be let out of the currency union without repercussions.
Let's not also forget that Germany (as an exporter) has had immense benefits from allowing weaker members into the currency union. At a time when many other countries in the world are actively devaluing, and the Eurozone has something similar to a Gold Standard (ie: limited monetary policy options) they have weakened the currency just by having a "crisis" on their doorstep.
you mean Frankfurt. and you are making a geopolitical point, which is again a "put it all in the the blender and switch it on"
meanwhile you are forgetting the Squid's role in getting Greece in with cooked books, the fact that you have to qualify for entrance in the EUR
but you are right on one thing: by sticking to balanced budgets (something this current Greek gov is trying to avoid) the EUR is, in fiscal-monetary terms, acting as gold did
and yet this leaves out the current ongoing Q€, which then would have to involve the current great currency war, and the relationship between the US and China
so no, I'd say you don't understand how the "Unions" function, and making the simplistic "Berlin is acting hegemonistic"... while Berlin is actually encouraging Greece to leave, and London and Washington are shouting out loudly that this is not good because they fear that a GreXit would be a "Second Lehman"
Wrong. The Greeks deserve to stay in the euro because they are hard workers and have fought for it. All that you say is lies, and false and racist discrimination against the people of Greece supported by absolutely no evidence. The fact, as per OECD Report 2015, is that the Greeks are the second most hard working people on earth and the most hard working people in the EU with 2037 average annual working hours actually worked per worker. The world average is 1755 hours per annum, with Germany and USA lagging well beyond the average at 1388 hours and 1788 hours per annum respectively. You may like to have a look here: https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS - (when Greeks speak they speak with solid evidence, not with speculations). And be sure about it, we will fight your racism, discrimination and propaganda to the end, We will expose you with true and official evidence in every single internet site in the WWW, in every country in the world and in every language spoken in this earth, whether it is English, German, Hindi, Chinese, Telagu, Swahili, Afrikaans, Russian, Korean, French, Spanish, Mongolian, or whatever. The whole world will learn how unjustly and discriminately you attack the Greek people t5hat have never harmed you based solely on your hatred, disrepect for others, and hideous discrimination. You will find out that what it means to be Greek, we promise you !!! Cheers :)
did I write the Greeks don't deserve to stay in the EUR? where are my lies? where are my racist discriminations?
do you READ what I write?
I understand the meaning of the word, "bankrupt" therefore choosing to exit the EU rather than wasting years letting the EU bleed me to death and wasting time- I would probably have selected the door where they keep the drachmas by now.
With an 18.2 trillion debt package that is rising, another 60 trillion due and payable over the next 20 years, and all the other debt we have- who the fuck are we kidding. We are just as broke as anyone else. Only we got the printer and a big war machine.
Everyone acted so scared of this 'siriza' even getting elected, remember that?.....lol another huge farce.
+1000. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
https://youtu.be/NIHJ9RMAVGI
you should do a "walk for freedom" to brussels. ask for handouts along the way. the ECB might also be a good goal for a march.
Wrong. The Greeks deserve to stay in the euro because they are hard workers and have fought for it. All that you say is lies, and false and racist discrimination against the people of Greece supported by absolutely no evidence. The fact, as per OECD Report 2015, is that the Greeks are the second most hard working people on earth and the most hard working people in the EU with 2037 average annual working hours actually worked per worker. The world average is 1755 hours per annum, with Germany and USA lagging well beyond the average at 1388 hours and 1788 hours per annum respectively. You may like to have a look here: https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS - (when Greeks speak they speak with solid evidence, not with speculations). And be sure about it, we will fight your racism, discrimination and propaganda to the end, We will expose you with true and official evidence in every single internet site in the WWW, in every country in the world and in every language spoken in this earth, whether it is English, German, Hindi, Chinese, Telagu, Swahili, Afrikaans, Russian, Korean, French, Spanish, Mongolian, or whatever. The whole world will learn how unjustly and discriminately you attack the Greek people t5hat have never harmed you based solely on your hatred, disrepect for others, and hideous discrimination. You will find out that what it means to be Greek, we promise you !!! Cheers :)
What the hell do people think after every year after year they run huge deficits? The bill always comes at the end, there is no free lunch.
It's coming to all western states sooner or later, Greece is just the first in the long line of dominos.
The IMF gives Greece loans that will enslave them knowing Greece would probably not be able to repay. The Greek leaders accept these IMF loans to ingratiate themselves knowing full well they may never be able to repay them. And the end result is the ordinary people are fucked.
Very correct. And the IMF and ECB are led by crookes and speculators. There are alreadt CATO reports to the US Congress to ban the IMF from the United States as it is found guilty of "secret and illegal practises and speculation". Furthermore, the Greeks deserve to stay in the euro because they are hard workers and have fought for it. As per OECD Report 2015, is that the Greeks are the second most hard working people on earth and the most hard working people in the EU with 2037 average annual working hours actually worked per worker. The world average is 1755 hours per annum, with Germany and USA lagging well beyond the average at 1388 hours and 1788 hours per annum respectively. You may like to have a look here: https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS - Everything else is far from the truth, it is speculation, and bloody propaganda led by the Bankers.
It is the Greeks' fault. It's disingenuous to say otherwise. They were quite happy having the retirement age be 53 or 55, fat government pensions, and nice juicy pointless government jobs. Asking where the money was coming from to pay for all of this was never a concern. Reformers were maginalized. Every Greek with a brain knew it couldn't last but they figured why not eat at the trough until the party stops. Then we'll whine for more money.
Now the bill has come due and Greeks are pathetically playing the victim. The first step towards recovery is admitting one has a problem. Syriza refuses to do it. The Greek people seem to refuse to do it. That's why the institutions aren't giving any more money. It'd be like giving an alcoholic more money when he hasn't even admitted he has a problem nor tried to stop drinking.
Furthermore, the Greeks are totally acting like children and deserve to be treated that way. They're like a teenager who borrowed a parent's car, crashed it, and then refuse to take any responsibility for paying for the damages. "You shouldn't have let me drive in the first place!" If Greece behaves like a child, they'll get treated like a child.
It's pathetic that Greece is lashing out at everyone around them instead of doing the soul-searching Greek society needs to do. As they won't do it on their own, the institutions are forcing them to do it. Ironically, it's the instiutions that are what will save Greece from itself. The Greeks have shown they cannot make any changes on their own.
the Greeks are entitled to run their country any damn way they want.
Its just that as part of the EU, their decisions have consequences to the other members. If anybody in the EU had an ounce of common sense and an honest bone in their body, Greece would never have been allowed to join, or politely asked to leave years ago
The fact that that hasn't happened yet speaks to the inherent criminality of intent in Brussels
Greeks are behaving like a child? Are you serious? Greece has met all its obligations and has repaid every single installment to the IMF, ECB, and EU up to this very moment, Everything else, that Greece will not be able to pay its future debt and will default is a hypothesis, that is a speculation, and we are not obliged to count on speculations. Moreover, Greeks are retired at the age of 65 for men, and 60 years for women, so your information is misleading. Here is the numbers supplied by The World Bank: http://chartsbin.com/view/2468. You say Greeks are lazy ! Yet, the OECD official statistics confirm that Greeks work for the longest hours in the EU, that is for 2037 per year. The EU average is 1780 hours per year (Germany is well below the average at 1388 hours per year). As for what you write, " it's the institutions that are what will save Greece from itself. The Greeks have shown they cannot make any changes on their own", permit me not to agree with you. Those same institutions that you are talking about are doing their best to evade taxes for their companies operating in Greece. Only the German SIEMENS has evaded 2 bn Euro tax of its Greek operations in the last 1 and a half year: http://rt.com/business/siemens-greece-bribery-payment-596/. And the Canadian Eldorado Gold Inc. has evaded another 1.7 bn of its Greek operations with the blessings of the Dutch government that at the same time is blaming Greeks for not paying their taxes !!!! The Canadian Justice itself has persecuted them !!!! : Just look at this: http://www.taxfairness.ca/en/news/canadian-mining-company-evading-taxes-.... Shell/Royal Dutch does the same with the blessings of Dutch FM Mr. Jeroen Dijsselbloem, at the same time that he blames the Greeks for evading tax !!! What a bllody propaganda against Greece is this? What a mess is this Europe? Who is corrupt? Greece or Europe?
..
Syriza is a failure.
Greece's only solution was to crash and burn...else become the total slaves of Troika forever more in debt servitude.
I think Syriza may in fact be represented as a neccessary success in the history books...IF it sticks to its guns.
At this very moment, someone in Greece is pulling money out of their bank account. The slow motion bank run has been going on for weeks, weakening bank balance sheets, and thus, good old Mario has got to be eyeing collateral.
The end is near. James Turk was right to speculate that the end game comes when Greek bank deposits decline to BELOW the debt owed to the Troika. That's the point at which a bail-in against Greek banks will not make the Troika whole (not that I think the bail-in would ultimately work, but the Troikia is probably eyeing this option)Dave Kranzler, Doc and I talked about Dave's smoking gun chart showing that we've got a major problem with collateral (click here for our podcast and my write-up). Many in the alternative asset community are looking for the sh*t to hit the fan in the Sept. - Oct. timeframe -- perhaps too many! Act 1 for the next BIG ONE could easily come earlyer - July-ish. Who knows. I think we're going to have a two-stage cruch.
-- Eric Dubin, Managing Editor, The News Doctors
Most Greeks know their government is corrupt, thats why there is rampant tax evasion. But they still want to be part of the Eurozone. They have no faith in their governments, but do they really trust the EZ? And the famous Greek pride is always there.
Hard choices to be made, that's all I have to say.
"...a union which solves its differences in High Noon style is no longer a union."
The "United" States resolved that question in 1861.
No. The slave-owner families tried to impose their interests on the population of the entire United States as well as upon the poor of the South. They lost the war because they were a small, elite minority even in the South. "Rich man's war, Poor man's fight" is a saying that originated among true Americans in the South.
Of course, I recognize that a large proportion of commenters in ZH are people who think the wrong side won in the American Civil War...
I have little if nothing to say about the American Civil War
but I agree on the no. because the current European "Unions" are all voluntary. Any country can leave, and no, there is no threat of war if they do so
in fact, in the context of talking of "Unions" and the American Civil War, the EU and the EuroSystem (ECB) should be called Confederations
Ghordo, could you be kind to point to a "Union" Treaty, Article or paragraph describing the procedure of a current member-state's secession?
Which part of the term 'uncharted territory" that you don't comprehend?
P.S. Your "Unions" lost its "s" somewhere in Maastricht in 1993... whoever finds it may get a peace of their sovereignty back.
Geez Louise, that's the first time I heard the "slave-owner families" tried to impose either slave owning or slavery on the rest of the US.
Certain states chose to withdraw from the union, as was their right and Lincoln waged a war to prevent their withdrawal.
the days of free crap is over..Greeks now have to WORK for 40 hours a week...52 weeks a year...and until they are 65 or 70 years old.....and you have to make something that someone wants...sure you have tourists...well..make it the best tourist stop in the world then....but you will no longer get paid for doing nothing...you will starve and die...evolution is good...and dont believe the politician who says he is going to give you everything....he is the liar....he has to take it from you first to give it...learn that fast....
Greece, like Turkey, are gateways to the West.
The Chinese and Russians will continue to deal with Europe through these gateways.
Plenty of business is coming to Greece.
Greece is a gate to the west? What are you talking about fella? Even the name Europe is Greek !!!! (Europa - "??????" in Classic Greece). Greece is the west fella, and there is no Europe without Greece !!!!
Wrong. All that you say is lies, and false and racist discrimination against the people of Greece supported by absolutely no evidence. The fact, as per OECD Report 2015, is that the Greeks are the second most hard working people on earth and the most hard working people in the EU with 2037 average annual working hours actually worked per worker. The world average is 1755 hours per annum, with Germany and USA lagging well beyond the average at 1388 hours and 1788 hours per annum respectively. You may like to have a look here: https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS - (when Greeks speak they speak with solid evidence, not with speculations). And be sure about it, we will fight your racism, discrimination and propaganda to the end, We will expose you with true and official evidence in every single internet site in the WWW, in every country in the world and in every language spoken in this earth, whether it is English, German, Hindi, Chinese, Telagu, Swahili, Afrikaans, Russian, Korean, French, Spanish, Mongolian, or whatever. The whole world will learn how unjustly and discriminately you attack the Greek people t5hat have never harmed you based solely on your hatred, disrepect for others, and hideous discrimination. You will find out that what it means to be Greek, we promise you !!! Cheers :)
So well written.
It expresses how everyone feels who is being ruled by the sociopathic oligarchs. Because the only thing a sociopath really wants is to win.
This is why we love ZeroHedge. Articles like these.
I love how there are so many comments regarding how the average Greek brought this on themselves. No they didn't. No more than the average Joe Six Pack here in the United States. Sure we voted and put people into office - but did we really vote for what is happening here in America right now. I sure as hell didn't. We shouldn't mock what's happening in Greece - we can all see the very same thing happening here in the good ole US of A and if it hasn't, it sure as hell will.
Pray for the people of Greece,
Well, if Greece walks, you can bet ISIS, the enforcer, is going to be on their doorstep.
Get some arms and ammunition. Trade some ouzo or olive oil, but get them.
Stay tuned for an emergency package and soaring markets.
Wrong. The Greeks deserve to stay in the euro because they are hard workers and have fought for it. All that you say is lies, and false and racist discrimination against the people of Greece supported by absolutely no evidence. The fact, as per OECD Report 2015, is that the Greeks are the second most hard working people on earth and the most hard working people in the EU with 2037 average annual working hours actually worked per worker. The world average is 1755 hours per annum, with Germany and USA lagging well beyond the average at 1388 hours and 1788 hours per annum respectively. You may like to have a look here: https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS - (when Greeks speak they speak with solid evidence, not with speculations). And be sure about it, we will fight your racism, discrimination and propaganda to the end, We will expose you with true and official evidence in every single internet site in the WWW, in every country in the world and in every language spoken in this earth, whether it is English, German, Hindi, Chinese, Telagu, Swahili, Afrikaans, Russian, Korean, French, Spanish, Mongolian, or whatever. The whole world will learn how unjustly and discriminately you attack the Greek people that have never harmed you based solely on your hatred, disrepect for others, and hideous discrimination. You will find out that what it means to be Greek, you filthy NAZIs, we promise you !!! Cheers :)
Greece never had a chance. Trading with a currency...Euro far to strong for the fundamentals of the country. Bought into the system by Goldman Sachs...Europe crony selected leaders.... given money they all knew was never going to get paid back.
Greece is where everybody expected it to be the moment it entered. But no fear....Germany and others have certainly enjoyed the weakness Greece brings to the Euro. Greece's predicament is wonderful for German and French trade.
It was all a con. Like mafia money lenders....give you $1,000 at 10% per day interest...and if (when ) you cant pay...we want your house, children and land businesses...
Exactly. Just like the USSR and then Cuba.
Only now, everyone knows what they're up to.
Exactly. Just like the USSR and then Cuba.
Only now, everyone knows what they're up to.
This is how tyranny works: First the target is identified: You. And soon you are nothing as they (in this case the Troika currently made up of the ECB, the EC, and the IMF) take what you have.
The targeting of the Greeks reminds one of the targeting of Third World resources by the World Wildlife Fund, a massive fraud to steal resources.
But the ultimate target was not the Third World, it was the First World. Just as Greece is not the last target; it is all of Western Civilization
The World Wildlife Fund was set up by Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands - who also set up the Bilderbergers. It's an old story:
The WWF is a World Wide Fraud - http://www.havenvideo.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=38908 -Note these remarks: WWF helps to protect very small areas as nature reserves and therefore gives space for the indiscriminate destruction of huge remaining areas, by industry and small scale land grabbers. Their bluster about 'illegal' logging is merely a smoke screen to cover up the 95% of logging that is legal. WWF helps to develop remote places with large areas of intact nature and get control over it. As these remote areas are generally tribal lands of non-assimilated peoples WWF assists governments to get control over them and to assimilate them into the mainstream. Shanty towns and coca-cola are no replacement for a three million year old culture. The point here is that compensation is irrelevant anyway, since these people should not be forcibly removed in the first place. The argument about compensation is a red herring to divert attention from the genocide being conducted by NGOs who pretend to support human rights…
As Do or Die says: “People from Indonesia to Zaire are being forcibly removed [by the WWF] from their ancestral homelands into shoddy shanty towns with poor sanitation and bad food. These people want to stay in their homelands, living as they always have; with no leaders and no civilization; hunting and gathering.
"The 'civilized' world is next: Welcome to the agenda of the WWF, of the Global Warmers, of the Goldman Cappers and Traders. It’s your turn now to be the victims of their national 'preserves', to have your land and home taken, your livelihood destroyed by their joint Government and WWF activities, your removal to make way for their railroads if there happens to be a gold mine on your territory."
In America, they called it predatory lending. In America, they said you owed your soul to the company store. The Greeks sold their souls for some EU coins. The Greeks do not control the narrative, because they have no alternative narrative.
All the EU is a stage and all the EU citizens actors thereon. Drop their script.
"Three little bears. / One with a light. One with a stick. One with a rope. / A spooky old tree. / Do they dare go into the spooky old tree? / Yes. They dare."
This was never a union. This was a conquest, and under direct rule from Berlin, Greeks will live long enough to pine for the days of the Ottoman Empire. The Turks at least allowed the Greeks their own religion and language. The Germans plan to drive the Greeks into extinction and replace them with the scum of Africa and Pakistan, who can mix drinks for Saudi princes wanting a Greek island where they can have orgies and drinking sprees in peace just as well as a Greek can.
The banksters have signed Greece's death warrant. They're bigger than you and there's damned little you can practically do to stop them. If you don't care to watch them use Greece for their amusement and sadistic social engineering experiments before finishing her off, and if there's anywhere else you can go, go.
And go now. Don't wait till the Germans are charging able-bodied, working-age Greeks 100,000 euro per head, in cash, for an exit visa.
There is hope. Just not for Greece.
Deutsche Bank, of course, is not Germany; it’s Wall Street. Also see “Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler” by Anthony C. Sutton:
“[The] build-up for European war [WWII] both before and after 1933 was in great part due to Wall Street financial assistance in the 1920s to create the German cartel system, and to technical assistance from well-known American firms ... to build the German Wehrmach.
... The contribution made by American capitalism to German war preparations before 1940 can only be described as phenomenal.”
The German people aren’t going to seize the Greeks’ tourist islands or the Greeks’ train system, or their water companies being sold off by their banker-indebted government; the bankers are. Germany is not a sovereign country; it is an occupied country without a legitimate constitution.
Which explains why Deutsche Bank, Germany's largest bank, is headed by Paul M. L. Achleitner who is a former Vice President of Mergers & Acquisitions of Goldman Sachs & Co., New York, and partner of Goldman Sachs Group.
Deutsche’s former chief, Joseph Ackermann – a long-term collaborator with Jean Claude Trichet who formerly headed the ECB (both Jewish financiers) -- “emerged from the panic of 2008 as the most powerful banker in Europe and, depending on whom you ask, possibly the most dangerous one, too. As the chief executive of Europe’s largest bank [Deutsche Ban] and a symbol of German financial might, he is at the center of more concentric circles of power than any other banker on the Continent.” -- The New York Times June 11, 2011, "Deutsche Bank’s Chief Casts Long Shadow in Europe.”
And remember this from April of 2009?
“Without the government money, Goldman, Merrill Lynch & Co., Morgan Stanley, Deutsche Bank AG and other firms could have become some of the biggest creditors in a bankruptcy filing by AIG, the world’s largest insurer, because of the billions in losses on subprime bonds and corporate debt…” – Bloomberg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/Wall_Street_Rise_Hitler.html
The people of the Weimar Republic kept believing things wouldn't get any worse but they did and continued to do so. Greece needs to tell the Troika to go to hell, it will be tough, whatever direction they take will be, but this current path is the toughest path of the lot.
I'm pretty damn sure that there still a few Greeks around who will be equating the recent events as somewhat akin to the treatment they received previously at the hands of the Getapo.
Just tell them all to fuck off, no more money.
They aren't going to shoot any of you nowadays, they may l like to, but they won't.
Like Barry, you Greeks elected the putz, your stuck with him.
Yeah, it is always the "institutions fault".
Wrong. The Greeks deserve to stay in the euro because they are hard workers and have fought for it. All that you say is lies, and false and racist discrimination against the people of Greece supported by absolutely no evidence. The fact, as per OECD Report 2015, is that the Greeks are the second most hard working people on earth and the most hard working people in the EU with 2037 average annual working hours actually worked per worker. The world average is 1755 hours per annum, with Germany and USA lagging well beyond the average at 1388 hours and 1788 hours per annum respectively. You may like to have a look here: https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS - (when Greeks speak they speak with solid evidence, not with speculations). And be sure about it, we will fight your racism, discrimination and propaganda to the end, We will expose you with true and official evidence in every single internet site in the WWW, in every country in the world and in every language spoken in this earth, whether it is English, German, Hindi, Chinese, Telagu, Swahili, Afrikaans, Russian, Korean, French, Spanish, Mongolian, or whatever. The whole world will learn how unjustly and discriminately you attack the Greek people t5hat have never harmed you based solely on your hatred, disrepect for others, and hideous discrimination. You will find out that what it means to be Greek, we promise you !!! Cheers :)
"High Noon" my ass. Greece has had 5 years (and more) to address and fix its' broken and corrupt way of life.
They had plenty of time and warning.
All this is lies, and false and racist accussations against the people of Greece supported by absolutely no evidence. The truth as per OECD Report 2015, is that the Greeks are the second most hard working people on earth and most hard working people in the EU with 2037 average annual worrking hours actually worked per worker. The world average is 1755 hours per annum, with Germany and USA lagging well beyond the average at 1388 hours and 1788 hours per annum respectively. You may like to have a look here: https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS - (when Greeks speak speak with solid evidence, not with speculations). Cheers :)
So grow a pair, stop seeking bailouts and loans and temporary solutions,and whining too, exit the Euro, stay in the EU, default on all your debt, restore the drachma, accept the Gazprom pipeline as that will give you a regular hard currency income , scale back your ridiculous army and navy and airforce which you don't need and then get real with social mobility, modern labour laws, sensible taxation structures and realistic property prices, then everyone go to work and build your country up til it can stand and rightfully hold its head up again. Seriously, my Greek mate used to brag in the 1990s how cabbies in Athens and Cyprus used to drive Mercs, without a clue how they managed to get them (debt, more debt, even more debt). You're not alone, Iceland did it, ireland did it, but they got on and did something about it.
Remember one thing tho, America would rather see you destitute and broken than prossperous from a deal with Russia. What are you going to do about it -- Ok, beg for more bailout money Ok.....
All this is lies, and false and racist accussations against the people of Greece supported by absolutely no evidence. The truth as per OECD Report 2015, is that the Greeks are the second most hard working people on earth and most hard working people in the EU with 2037 average annual worrking hours actually worked per worker. The world average is 1755 hours per annum, with Germany and USA lagging well beyond the average at 1388 hours and 1788 hours per annum respectively. You may like to have a look here: https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS - (when Greeks speak rthey speak with solid evidence, not with speculations). Cheers :)
True and lamentable what the author writes. But the problem is Greeks don't want to go it alone. After all that has transpired, they still cling to the euro. Period. End of story. There's not much Tsipras/Varoufakis can do for you when your not willing to go BALLS TO THE WALL and let the chips fall where they may. They've spent 3 months battling with the result less support at home and the only thing 70% of Greeks can agree with is stay in Euro. Now, you get what Troika says you deserve.
Wrong. The Greeks deserve to stay in the euro because they are hard workers and have fought for it. All that you say is lies, and false and racist accussations against the people of Greece supported by absolutely no evidence. The truth as per OECD Report 2015, is that the Greeks are the second most hard working people on earth and most hard working people in the EU with 2037 average annual worrking hours actually worked per worker. The world average is 1755 hours per annum, with Germany and USA lagging well beyond the average at 1388 hours and 1788 hours per annum respectively. You may like to have a look here: https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS - (when Greeks speak rthey speak with solid evidence, not with speculations). And be sure about it, we will fight your racism, discrimination and propaganda to the end, We will expose you with solid evidence to every single internet site, in every country in the world and in every language spoken in this earth, either English, or German, or Hindi, or Chinese, or Telagu, or Swahili, or whatever. The whole world will learn how wrongly and discriminatively you attrack based only on your hate and discrimination. You will find out that what it means to be Greek, we promise you !!! Cheers :)
Exhausting, unbearable, irrational, degrading, shaken, suicides. You spoke your mind, the people who own you do not give a flying fuck. Now what?