A jury Monday found a couple guilty of having sex on Bradenton Beach after only 15 minutes of deliberation.
The convictions carry a maximum prison sentence of 15 years.
Both Caballero and Alvarez will now have to register as sex offenders.
Ronald Kurpiers, defense attorney for the couple, said his clients were “devastated,” by the verdict.
Though Dafonseca hinted that they’d be speaking with the judge about whether or not 15 years was appropriate for Caballero, Kurpiers said the judge would have no discretion.
“That’s what he’ll get,” Kurpiers said.
– From the Miami Herald article: Couple Found Guilty of Having Sex on Florida Beach
This is what “justice” looks like in the Oligarch States of America. If you’re a pleb who gets caught having consensual sex on the beach, you’re immediately convicted and face up to 15 years in the gulag. Meanwhile, if you’re a banking executive responsible for crashing the global economy, you’re rewarded with trillions in taxpayer bailouts and backstops and given free reign to continue your crime spree. Criminal charges are never considered, despite the extreme negative impact your actions have on society at large, and you’re always given a slap on the wrist via deferred prosecution agreements, or DPAs. Don’t believe me? Let’s look at an excerpt from last year’s post titled, The U.S. Department of Justice Handles Banker Criminals Like Juvenile Offenders…Literally:
These agreements were created 100 years ago to give juvenile defendants and first-time offenders a chance to for rehabilitate themselves. Only in the last 20 years have DPAs migrated to the field of corporate criminals, treating them like kids who’ve just gone down a bad path in life.
The Justice Department is leaning on these toothless agreements more and more. Of the DoJ’s 283 deferred prosecution agreements since 2000, half have come since 2010, Reilly found in a working paper for BYU Law Review.
Why has the DoJ been so keen on deferred prosecution since 2010? It coincides exactly with investigations into the 2008 financial crisis.
With that in mind, let’s take a look at what 40-year old Jose Caballero faces in Florida for “sex on the beach.” From the Miami Herald:
A jury Monday found a couple guilty of having sex on Bradenton Beach after only 15 minutes of deliberation.
The convictions carry a maximum prison sentence of 15 years.
Jose Caballero, 40, and Elissa Alvarez, 20, were charged with two counts each of lewd and lascivious behavior for having sex on a public beach on July 20, 2014.
Video played in the courtroom during the 1- 1/2-day-long trial showed Alvarez moving on top of Caballero in a sexual manner in broad daylight. Witnesses testified that a 3-year-old girl saw them.
Both Caballero and Alvarez will now have to register as sex offenders.
The state will ask for jail time for Alvarez and prison time for Caballero. Dafonseca said due to Caballero being out of prison less than three years before committing another felony, he’s looking at serving the maximum time of 15 years.
Ronald Kurpiers, defense attorney for the couple, said his clients were “devastated,” by the verdict. Though Dafonseca hinted that they’d be speaking with the judge about whether or not 15 years was appropriate for Caballero, Kurpiers said the judge would have no discretion.
“That’s what he’ll get,” Kurpiers said.
Ed Brodsky, elected state attorney for the 16th judicial district, joined Defonseca in prosecuting the case. When asked why the case was an important one to the state attorney, Dafonseca said it was important that the community knew what wouldn’t be tolerated on public beaches.
“We’re dealing with basically tourists, that came from Brandon and Riverview and West Virginia, and they’re here on the beaches of Manatee County, our public beaches,” Dafonseca said, referring to the witnesses. “So you want to make sure that this isn’t something that just goes by the wayside. And that it is well known to the community, what will be tolerated and what won’t be.”
So this is where Florida draws the line, how brave! In reality, Florida is known for tolerating and encouraging some of the most statist behavior in America, which is why the state is so often highlighted on this site. Recall:
Girl Gang Raped during Spring Break in Florida as Crowds Stand Around and Do Nothing to Stop It
Protecting and Serving – Florida Police Raid 90-Year-Old Woman’s Home; Find No Drugs but Wreck Home
90-Year-Old WW2 Veteran and Two Clergymen Face 60 Days in Jail for Feeding the Homeless in Florida
Florida Cop Rapes 20-Year Old Woman at Gunpoint While on Duty
I could go on, but let’s go back to the Miami Herald.
Family members of the couple defended the two outside the courthouse, saying the crime did not deserve this kind of attention.
“He’s a great person,” said Caballero’s mother of her son, declining to give her name. “There are other things out there we need to worry about, and they’re still loose, people who have done worse stuff.”
Indeed.
This story demonstrates how completely and totally broken the U.S. justice system is. Should this couple have been having sex in public and in broad daylight? Absolutely not. Should there be some sort of punishment? Absolutely.
That said, the punishment should fit the crime in a just civilization, and 15 years behind bars for public sex is more akin to what you’d expect in Saudi Arabia. It’s particularly appalling when compared with the license to commit fraud and steal, which politically connected oligarchs have been granted. After all, who was really harmed by this couple’s act? Sure, some tourists may have had their day temporarily ruined or inconvenienced. A three-year-old girl may have seen something, but would probably have no way of understanding what it was. On the other hand, criminal bankers have demonstrably ruined the lives of hundreds or millions, if not billions, of people across the globe. Yet not a single TBTF executive has been prosecuted. They were bailed out instead.
Meanwhile, what about the pastor who faces only four months for molesting a little girl. Yes, you read that right. Our society is so completely fucked up, that two people irresponsibly making love in public will have their lives ruined, while a religious authority caught molesting a little girl receives a slap on the wrist. From RawStory:
A northern California pastor will serve no more than four months in jail for molesting a 9-year-old girl multiple times.
Venije Singkoh, a pastor at churches in San Francisco and Concord who also held services at his Daly City home, pleaded no contest to a misdemeanor count of child sexual annoyance.
He had initially been charged with three felony counts of child molestation after investigators said he held the girl on his lap and kissing her inappropriately.
The girl told her mother and father that the 70-year-old Singkoh used his tongue while kissing her, and the family called a church meeting to confront the pastor.
Examples of the criminal application of “justice” is an everyday occurrence in America today. I’ve outlined too many examples to list them all, but here are a few:
The U.S. Department of Justice Handles Banker Criminals Like Juvenile Offenders…Literally
Free Corzine
Say Corzine one more time...
Yeah, sorry, the punishment may be disproportional, but don't be a fucking heathen. Subdue your hormones until you can get to a private fucking place, FFS.
I am Chumbawamba.
Life...Liberty...and the pursuit of happiness!
What happened to that?
Isnt there a drink called sex on the beach?
People Are Still Having Sex - La Tour (1991)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ImRyPymRAM
If gay sex, then AG would let him get off easily.
disagree. these are state charges and would have been at least as severe, imo.
#floridaman
I see it all the time..
Stupid fucking tourists on vacation think they can do whatever they want cause "nobody really lives there"
But 15 years is "harsh and unusual punishment" IMO
And how much will it cost the tax payers to house and feed these two idiots for that time?
What the F***
I've had sex on the beach. If they'd put me in for 15y I'd had spent 8 of them so far to plan how to destroy the world. You would all be dead in 7 years time. Thats not what you would have wanted is it? Just to lock me up for using my human rights, being and acting like a human man??
Someone should cut that judges head off. 15 years is taking a life....for having sex??
Basically America is fucked.
And it is fucking.
Fuck.
Listen to this, one of th efunniest discourses on Fuck by an irreverant Indian godman of yore, great fun: Osho on Fuck...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D7rWLzloOI
Y'guys, we guys, we goys, if we do nothing, we're fucked.
goys will be goys I guess.....
Conveniently the OP leaves out the rest of the story.
The 40 year old man who was with the 20 year old woman was a 10 time loser. He was out on conditional parole and on probation still. If he had any felony convictions, the minimum sentence in Florida is 15 years for a parole violation for a felon. Perhaps he should have kept it in his pants until he found a hotel but instead, he decided to hump this slut in front of a 3 year old girl.
Details and facts are everything.
Na man, that doesnt justify shit.
Infront of a 3 yr old... so what? You think a 3 year old get traumatised by seing a couple having sex? How do they even know she's 3?? They took her in for interegation for this horrible crime??
parole, probation, i dont even know what it means. All I can say is that no matter who it was, a massmurderer or pedofile rapist, NOONE should get 15 yr for having sex with a beautiful woman on a beach!! Put him back in for the other stuff.. but not the sex stuff!
Thats just utterly fucked up. If that is the law, there is no law! And most definitly there is no freedom or liberty in a country ruled by those laws!
Madoff went to jail so the O's could trade and sail.
eyes wide open: lawyers judges and the elected (mostly lawyers)..use the law as a hammer, precedent is king-not the consitution and limiting of powers of the state. the elected vote more laws every day to correct any problem" real or made up"..to have a free country we need fewer laws and fewer legal system workers, however the pols are all lawyers, we will only get more LAW...LOL
"If that is the law, there is no law! And most definitly there is no freedom or liberty in a country ruled by those laws!"
an observation: those pols who are NOT Lawyers (sen Paul -MD) as example, seem to have the most problem with bloated .gov and military..the rest -Lawyers(H clinton) as example, have no problem with bloated .gov and military..just an observation, law school make perfect hitlers it seems.
See, here's the problem with the Regulatory State, its completely arbitrary.
The signs at the beach clearly state, No Alcohol, No Smoking, No Pets, No Littering, No Glass, No Profane Language, No Vehicles etc...doesn't say anything about sex.
We need longer signs!!!
Or lawyers on retainer to interpret them all ;-)
Indeed. "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" -Tacitus
Exactly ;-)
And you are leaving out part of the story as well.
The way 800.03 is written, a person may be charged with lewdness and indecent exposure (a first-degree misdemeanor) for acts on private property, if said acts can be seen from public property.
The prosecutor also had the discretion to charge the defendant in this case under 877.03 disorderly conduct, "acts as are of a nature to corrupt the public morals, or outrage the sense of public decency, or affect the peace and quiet of persons who may witness them" which is a second-degree misdemeanor.
Or the prosecutor could simply have chose not to file any charges.
The prosector chose to use the corrupt structure of the system to imprison the defendant for 15 years.
And the dude that just shot the cop in the face had done 3 Yrs for attempted murder...
15 yrs for fucking? Go figure...
Never ever thought I'd see ORI join the ranks of the minority oppressors. It's all the Joos fault ORI?
Ghandi would be so proud....
Osho dressed up as khan...We are all so impressed.
Is that ORI even?
This is what happens when people become sheeple. Someone (or three) on that jury should have just said no. Slap this shit down when you have the chance. Why was this in court anyway, should have been a ticket with a fine.
all this is still possible, but not free. It seems that in America, the motto nowadays is : " if you can pay for it, then it's legal. "
The fucking gays fuck each other in public IN THE ASS in San Francisco on Halloween. I was dragged to the Halloween party in the castro one year and left after probably 20 minutes because these sick perverted people fuck each other in the ass in public on fire escapes. Swear to god, the judge putting these people in jail for having sex on the beach is going to the top of my list. I don't live far from Florida either.
What do you expect from a Communist country like the USSA?
Man gets 99 year prison sentence for animal neglect
No, America Isn't Communist; It's Only 70% Communist
The issue here is local mores. San Francisco is filled with heathens that are going to be smote verily once the Angry Deity in the Sky loses patience, but it's accepted there. In Florida, the mores are a little different.
The circumstances here are (according to the public record):
I'm not sure if we're to assume they tried to hide themselves or if they were just blatantly going at it without a care as to who might see. Assuming the former, I for one wouldn't want anyone's kids to see this before they're ready. That shit can have lasting effects. Assuming the latter, well, people sometimes make stupid judgments, but unfortunately, many criminal statutes these days ignore intent. The crime is against the State, i.e. the collective social mores as expressed through the statutes. You violate the social contract, you incur the penalties.
The sentence is outrageous and will likely be overturned on appeal if the guy has competent representation and the wherewithal to take it the necessary distance. Or maybe not, maybe Floridians in the area where this happened don't appreciate that kind of heathenicity and the sentence is appropriate for the kind of message they want to send to their society to program them according to the majority values. Whatever. That's in Florida. I'll take this into consideration should I ever have occasion to visit the state again.
-Chumblez.
local mores are one thing, the outrageous sentence another, miscarriage of justice and trial by jury another
but please, leave the Angry Deity in the Sky where it is. in fact, refrain from using the word heathen. If your Angry Deity wants to smote them, your help is not needed
particularly if you are religious, you should keep in mind that you might get persecuted in the same or worse way as you are on the brink of persecuting a "heathen"
and if you aren't religious, there is no reason to invoke or name or mention any Deity (including drawing cartoons on religious matters, btw)
to Caesar (the State) what belongs to Caesar (the State) and to God what belongs to God ---> guess who said that
And let's not forget that the precrucified one much preferred to hang around with the publicans, the prostitutes and the sinners and clearly detested all of the religious people of his day.
And I seriously doubt he was visiting them to say, 'Gday'.
hey chewbaca,
do you really beleive the shit you write?
I would bet the farm that you have never been laid on a beach.Unless , it was some type of whale.
Personally, waking up on "azedhina" beach in buzios with that top model under my belly and my shorts at my anckles, was one of those " best moments" in my life.
A couple actually applauded as we walked away...
Did the witnesses see penetration? Or, is dry humping illegal, also? I'll need to see the video to form an opinion on the matter.
Fuck that.............oh wait
re: http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2015/02/24/video-of-the-day-watch-as-florid...
yet another administrative parasite acting the dictator while making $214k base on the back of the taxpayer... and idiots insist that the US doesn't spend enough on education... on the contrary, we spend way too goddamned much and then some, with little to show for it...
speaking of things wrong with the world, let's shine some more light on that corner of it...
If a 3 year old saw them, then she probably didn't know what they were doing. On the other hand, if she did, I guess we should lock up both of her parents for 15 years. Let's put away any neighbours who should've kept an eye on the family and reported suspicious activity but didn't. Let's search their houses and tap their phone lines just to be safe. Send the sniffer dogs in to scan for illegal substances. Monitor bank accounts. To make sure things don't get out of hand, send in the SWAT to secure the whole perimeter. But what if someone witnesses power abuse and begins filming, then turns his back, runs away and accidentally gets shot? That might start a riot! Better introduce curfew and put the whole city on lockdown. The city, then the state, then the whole country. And no point letting all those FEMA camps sit empty. Bought and paid for. Might as well put them to good use. Commence operation!
Julia.......... I love the way you think! Seriously folks, this is why I am on my pilgrimage to exit society in general. I can't get to my off-grid farm soon enough. It's not just the State any longer that is out of control and shamelessly draconian, it's all the control-freak populace that go along with it and cheer it along as it passes!
LET ME OUT OF HERE!
Getting off the ride is illegal.
Yeah, but so is staying on, for a lot of folks.
Exactly. Check the local laws before buying property. The state and county are not your friends.
How many people did Corzine screw and how much jail time has he done?
I am glad to see he is not forgotten here at ZH.
Gubmint: ctrl-alt-del
So she goes to jail and he goes to prison. "It's fair", says the zombified shell-shocked populace.
I read this story earlier today on a Florida news website, and the reporter was quick to point out that the perp was "no stranger to a jail cell." He also has been caught doing drugs it seems, so he's got 15 years coming. Fortunately for bankers, they never do drugs.
"...all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding."
When you get out, shoot up a few jurors' family picnics, have some fun with it!
This shit ends when the cunt class begins to fear a nice FMJ fucking.
"He also has been caught doing drugs it seems, so he's got 15 years coming"
And the woman. Let me guess, she got 15 because discrimination.
And never have sex....
Can we just barricade Wall Street, line all the bankers up, and shoot them with nailguns???
Having sex on the beach should not be a felony....hello.
Barkeep!! Cancel that slippery nipple!
Plus there are extenuating circumstances: a 40-year-old guy has to keep his 20-year-old girlfriend happy so she doesn't look for someone less uptight and more spontaneous
So, if sex on the beach gets 15 years in prison...what does sex in the White House get?
$250,000 speaking engagements
lol
Re-election, too.
Ask Reggie
Ask Reggie I hear he gave Obama HIV.
Politicians should find a way to tax it! Then it would be encouraged :-)
usa .,
hello...
Having sex on the beach would be a utube viral.
Let's jail all 100 million viewers...
She was half his age and therefore should be slapped silly by everyone on the maternal side. As for the bankers, only expulsion into space will rid us of this plague.
The aliens will be pissed.
Criminals have always loved Florida. Banksters like to retire there too. The odds are better they'll get what's coming to them from a fellow criminal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Bundy
Bankster grade pink Peruvian pure crystal cocaine is not a drug.
The comment section of the paper is overwhelmingly slamming the decision. They are appalled.
This guy obviously forgot his Presidential cufflinks.
Insane.
In the membrane.
If i could ride through the wide open country that i love, don't fence me in bro!
"We all got it cummin' kid."
Let me rephrase that...
Cum on Murikistan.
I remember when "minimum sentencing 'guidelines'" were established, and power promised that they would not impact on judges discretion.
I remember when power instituted "sex offender" lists with promises of "only the worse offenders."
I remember when I used to live in the "land of the free," and not the land of tyranny.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission.
I remember when labor camps and guillotines were part of the past, and not the future.
An old Social Security card:
http://www.davies-quarter-horses.com/images/family/davies-lodge/wmdavies...
"For Social Security Purposes....not for Identification."
Yeah, my dad mentions that "no ID" bit from time to time. He had a military bud in the mid-sixties that used to tell him that "Oswald didn't shoot shit," and "your SS number is your 'chattel' number." Wise friend my dad had.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission.
My grandma used to go on and on about income tax. "It started during world war 2 and was supposed to go away when the war ended."
I used to tell her it will when the war is over... and she'd smack me down.
I am old enough that my SS card also says "not to be used for identification." Good times.
The world runs on incentive and people will always gravitate toward those things that give payback. Banksters who cheat get more money and kudos from their cohorts. Prosecutors who try to put them in jail get demoted but putting a no-name (hispanic no name) on the registered sex offenders list brings in Federal funds to your office. What the story doesn't say is what plea bargin did they turn down before the trial. You can be sure it included registration because the $$$ were all the DA's office was concerned about. (Unless there's an election coming up and a sound bite was needed for the commercials).
If justice happens it's purely incidental to career advancement.
I wish I select more of the up arrow. Please run for President, you have my vote?
I wish I select more of the up arrow. Please run for President, you have my vote?
Actual judging comes from the people and it will be coming soon in this case and in many others. If you are .gov, spare us (the people) the trouble and please jump off a tall government building. Your .gov sugardaddy will give a nice funeral with gunshots - free of charge.
If anyone needs a hand....it's free.
Probably should be jailed for a month or two after reading the details. But 15 years is obviously idiotic. Well that's the state for you. Everything is a felony and it's all about control.
The more laws there are, the more criminals there will be.
Unless you are abuse pharmacetucials
This is what you get when you have mental cases preaching law.
Next time I go to the bar and want a silly drink, it's going to be a Manhattan. The cops will look the other way when I'm driving home.
the illusion of integrity must do
when the real thing would destroy
the system itself.
Oh, come on now, there were highly aggravating circumstances.
They had both publicly announced that they were going to vote for Ben Carson for President.
They named a cocktail after it so can they sue?
Never was comfortable getting all that sand up my bung hole.
So you were getting "pegged on the beach?"
Pegged "to" the beach Ms. The windbreaker conitations ain't too popular though
Just keep the top on that jelly....
jeez people, you have your chick sit on your shirt and throw the blanket over you, duh
Child molesters seem to get off lighter than this.
Get off!
I loled
whoops
Two homos, sucking each other off, they would have gotten a fucking parade. And then they would bring the school kids too watch a loving modern couple enjoying each other's specialness.
This fucking world.
Troll On
The bilderberg bankster, Jim Prentice, is no longer leader of Alberta.
The fourty four year conservative dynasty is dead, they wanted to tax the people and not the corporations.
I'm not so sure turning left is the answer but we're rid of the banksters for the time being.
Prentice was the annointed one, unaccepted by the proletariat.
The World is Turning.
The Burgerbuilder Revolt.
In Australia we have a game called two up. Two coins are tossed in the air. If 2 heads is the result the head backers win and the tail backers loose. The banksters in the US have embraced this game but have changed the rules. Heads they win, tails somebody else looses. They are guna make a lot of spins.
Seriously...how about PA condo owners being deprived of their property AND being stuck with their mortgages because some developer bought up controlling interest in their HA? He used a law designed to HELP such owners to screw them over, WITH the help of the so-called justice system.
The justice system in this country is a fucking joke. They make the damned laws so complex that you NEED lawyers just to get through, with no guarantee of fairness OR justice! But always complex enough that YOU can never hope to prevail, even if the law SEEMS to favor you.
Ah, but the founders left us one teeny weeny little way too fix things if it gets so fucked up that common sense and rational discourse fail.
Nailed it mate.
When the rules are too manifiold and complex for an iq 80 person to hold in his head then the rule of law is irrelevant.
"That's what he'll get"... shouldn't that be " that's what they will get ". First of all its full on retard stuff to begin with (15wha?) but the young woman should get same ridiculous sentence whatever that may be. Today men get 60% longer sentences on average than women for the exact same crimes.
He is getting the stoopid sentence because he has been in prison before and was not supposed to commit a felony inside the three year mark of being out. She has not been in prison before. I think it is all retarded, but the logic is about his prior incarceration.
Sex on the beach should not be a felony.
I should be in prison. Ask my husband, he should too.
Drawing this prosecutor sounds like some seriously bad luck.
Bankers don't seem to have this kind of bad luck.
Showed this to my wife with the comment that we were lucky some 10 years ago at a FL beach. Slight difference: it was at night, virtually out of view and the kids were in bed.
And if you are ever "called upon" to do your civic duty, just give them two words...Juror Nullification.
Have the judge explain to you how you "have to" obey his instructions if you believe he is abusing the law. Regardless of WHAT the law says...No, you do NOT have to "find the defendent guilty" if this or that is established. In fact, you don't have to listen to the judge at all. If you think the law is being applied unfairly, you can stop it right there and then, and neither he nor anyone else can stop you from deciding to cut the defendent loose, regardless of whatever clever arguments are used...
Its called checks and balances, bitches. And it all comes down to the people. You HAVE the power, USE IT!
The guy must be retarded. Otherwise a jury of his "peers" would see it the way you describe here.
Except that it wasn't a jury of his peers...
They may have been a similar age to him but I doubt they were of similar grade or status.
greece just announced a tax on each atm transaction or balance transfer, it is only 1 euro but the markets are starting to sell off. anyone seen a good breakdown on what the collateral damage might be if they default on their next bond payment.
by the way, if having sex on the beach is a felony, i would still be in jail from the seventies.
I am outraged at this blatant miscarriage of justice.
ergo, We must Riot.
Who's with me for a trip to Walgreens?
Step right up. Be the first bankster of the month to do the moral thing. Jump bankster jump.
"just-us" indeed ...
You must realize that there are two justice sytems:
One for the "shepards"
One for the "sheep"
Had it been two guys having sex the MSM would have made sure they were never prosecuted and given their own reality TV show.
and yet more police brutality...
http://www.theofficialgame.com/she-partied-too-hard-but-no-woman-deserve...
Standard Disclaimer: Fuck the cops. Don't give me that shit about one bad apple spoiling the whole barrel. It's a barrel full of rotten apples with one or two good ones...
sex on a beach in Florida was fun before every fucking thing under the sun started getting video recorded
Maybe they knew he was a genius in License Plates.
should be a misdemeanor with a $1000 fine and probation for 6 months -at most -especially if it is a public beach with kids present. On a private beach - with no kids -maybe a traffic ticket.
Sorry Mike Krieger, I like most of your articles but this is BULLSHIT
There is NO SIMILARITY between the FEDS NOT Charging bankers for crimes
and the
LOCAL POLICE picking up a bunch of criminal scumbags fucking on a public beach in full view of chjildren.
You DO UNDERSTAND that it's completely different agencies, right? OR are you saying that local Florida Police can arrest the bankers?
There is NO POSSIBLE WAY you can morally defend two adults fucking in a public place in view of children, unless you are a sick and twisted fuck.
I LIVE HERE and I am fucking sick of these "quality of life" issues that these savages "enrich" us with. Lots of these illegals like to fish along the canals around where I live. I used to have no problem with this, now just last week they all seem to have collectively decided to stop picking up after themselves and left mounds of garbage in my nice rural area. Now I have to be the bad guy and drive them out.
YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!
Old man yells at cloud.
OR are you saying that local Florida Police can arrest the bankers?
THEY CAN. FRAUD IS A FELONY IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA.
As for defending these people?
How many times has your three year old caught you in the act? If you say never then you lie through your teeth, or you do not have kids, or you do not have sex. (My bet is on all which I have listed.) You must be a sickand twisted fuck who needs to be caged for fifteen years.
Wake the fuck up and stop being a fucking apologist for the state and their pigs.
I also don't think he has any clue about how the law in Florida is actually written, or what it means-
Exposure of sexual organs.—It is unlawful to expose or exhibit one’s sexual organs in public or on the private premises of another, or so near thereto as to be seen from such private premises
Maybe we can pass around collection plate and arrange a field trip of pre-schoolers over to Peak Finance's neighborhood one evening. Who knows, depending on how the laws are written in the fiefdom where hi is at best a freehold tenant on the State's land- each little kid might be separate count, in which case with consecutive instead of concurrent sentencing, he could have several centuries in prison to think of the shortcoming of his reasoning. All we need is the existing law and the cooperation of the local prosecutor.
Damn, It is good to be a bankster... and have this system at your disposal, as long as you contribute early and contribute often. Being a serf under such a draconian and corrupt infrastructure... not so much.
Lemme explain something to you, your parents fucked. You were born. Nothing unnatural there, except in the minds of satanistic pedophiles such as priests (cos they can't do it normal way).
If you think people fucking on the street is worse offence than robbing retirement funds, screwing up world economy, killing hundreds of thousands for profit while lying to the public, I don't know what I can say to you... You are not a human being.
It's the SENTENCE, Stupid.
The sheer volume of me saying FUCK YOU is akin to a 747 taking off....
SO FUCK YOU....LOUDER
When you outlaw sex on the beach, only outlaws with have sex on the beach!
With all the baby boomers falling off the charts for Social Security Ponzi Pay back. Obama has been illegally shipping in new tax slaves to cover the missing piggyback funds. Don't forget about all the empty prison cells and new construction obligations.
11 new TPP countries are supposed to save his Kenyan lying ass.
This really sucks!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yge311sFhC8
Make love: get in jail for 15 years. Make war: get the Nobel Peace Prize.
Should this couple have been having sex in public and in broad daylight? YES Absolutely.
Should there be some sort of punishment? Absolutely NOT.
What is wrong with sex in daylight on a beach? You think that little kids are harmed by that? Kids can kill and murder in games, see it every day in every show on TV but sex... well THAT is the end of this world. This "society" needs to relearn that we walked around naked all day long once and nobody died or was harmed because of that.
USA justice, laws and government are plain crazy.
Well said. I would think that witnessing violence would be much more traumatic to a child than watching two human beings procreate.
So many years people have spent in prison "for the children". The one topic that seems to make everyone go soft in the head. Same as it ever was.
Sentencing has taken on something new and yes you guessed it bots and math for "evidence based sentencing" and actually this was one area where Holder did get it right on using predictive analytics to make a determination if the person or persons in this case could be scored to determine "if they would in fact commit a crime again".
Holder did speak out and said this would lead to terrible atrocities against citizens and what you do bet something like that could have been in this picture or was it just red neck judge feeling some oats that day? We all hear evidence based medicine in healthcare until we all want to scream and yes if done correctly in the avenues of research for trends, the information can help. There's a big difference, though when you stop and use evidence based medicine only for treatments and doctors fight that all the time, patients are not allowed new medications, etc. as there's no evidence "yet.
So now the legal system is starting to embrace the "predictive analytics" evidence based sentencing and let's not forget the data is getting more flawed every day out there with "scoring" people with the $180 billion dollar a year data selling business as they don't care. Bad data gets the same price as good data and nobody looks at the data, only the results that a query kicks out, and again when done with flawed data, we all know what that leads to=error bars and false positives.
Why not use evidence based sentencing with banks I say! We have seen that evidence. Again this has not really hit the big news but evidence based sentencing is out there. Here's another example with a nurse getting 3 years for 500k of medical fraud and granted she had a sentence coming to her, but compare it to the health insurers that racked up $70 billion with Medicare fraud and nobody goes to jail there either and we have to keep paying for their stock buy backs with our insurance premiums on top of it all as you will find the big insurers all on the S&P 500.
Anyway, the 500k is chump change compared to the $70 billion insurers ripped off Medicare. Oh and by the way is it any wonder that Andy Slavitt, the head of Medicare is a one time Goldman Sachs banker and a few other things, like a former big executive at United that was sued under the subsidiary name of Ingenix? The AMA even sued them on a class action and won against Ingenix for short paying doctors for 15 years by rigging the normal and customary fees for out of network charges and we do have Cuomo to thank for finding that gem. Nobody went to jail and instead he's running Medicare.
http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2015/05/woman-in-new-jersey-gets-3-years-in.html
Agree, sentences are not fitting the crimes and what kind of math and number rigging is there for that?
What we have here is what the World Privacy Forum in a report, cited all over the place called "The Secret Scoring of America' and yes they sell all those score they create about you and I and nobody has a clue, until you end up denied access to something.
http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2014/04/world-privacy-forum-report-scorin...
I have to say..I sort of buy the 'stupid sentence' in the comments below. This convict is just an idiot. Everyone knows Florida has some draconian laws so the retirees feel safe. And he knew he hat to watch it for 3 years. The law isn't new I'm sure. It wasn't well tested because until recently not everyone had a video camera in their pocket.
So this is nothing but anecdotal.
Here's what I like about the laws in these States: they are clearly written, there is no undue need for interpretation.
Compare that to Europe, where most of the time you even have to guess the intent of the law, which gives a horrible amount of leeway for judges and lawyers to interpret as they feel fit at the moment. Don't ask me where I would feel safer.
"Compare that to Europe, where most of the time you even have to guess the intent of the law, which gives a horrible amount of leeway for judges and lawyers to interpret as they feel fit at the moment. Don't ask me where I would feel safer."
is that a trick question? where do you feel safer, where there is less risk of getting hurt by criminals and police, or where laws are more transparent... for you?
as a reminder, here on the european continent that Anglo-American tradition of "trial by jury of peers" is way less common
nevertheless, we somehow manage to have less violent crime, way less police brutality and shootings, and we incarcerate only one person out of 10'000
despite or because of that "need of interpretation"? or is the truth even uglier, and it's about money, bribes and private prison systems, something we completely lack?
Europe is so backward, they don't even have privatized judges, magistrates and mayors yet - bloody primitives!
we did, for a time, on the Fair Isle of Albion, have a great privatization drive. all those primitive, nearly communistic vast expanses of land called... Commons
(that's the same Commons which sent "two knights each" to the very first Parliament, btw)
that, of course, was bad for business, so the Commons were privatized (read: taken away from their collective owners in favour of private owners)
depriving huge numbers of people their ancient sustenance, their land, because of the crime of collective ownership. The Real Tragedy Of The Commons
which, of course, led to people - gasp! - stealing... food. because they were hungry. that could not be. magistrates (actually landlords) had to intervene
the rest... is the much maligned history of deportation to, for example, Australia and New Zealand. for the crime of having been... privatized
hell, I'm really not a socialist, but that story and the surrounding mythology of it makes me symphatize a bit with them. and with you Deported "Criminals" Down Under
hell, even the whole concept of "Tragedy of the Commons" had to be carefully rewritten, and adapted to the liberal-capitalistic-private ideology
and the strangest thing is that it's even a valid, cogent argument. there is a tendency for private owners to care more about private land then collective owners
and yet... it all started with private landlords passing a law that allowed them to take collective land, land that was owned by villages "in Common" for centuries, and fence it...
... and then complain about "thuggish" bands of derelict vagabunds stealing apples and veggies, and ask for their deportation, sentenced by magistrates-landlords
Our American Cousins are (roughly) repeating an old story and don't even realize it. private means efficient. some things are best left to inefficient provider of services, imho
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oh, and another thing, more @Urban Redneck:
how many convictions in the US aren't done through a trial by jury of peers? I was reading about a number of freaking 95% of cases resulting from an agreement between the prosecutor and the defendant pleading guilty. now, how much of it is clear cut? judging from the sheer numbers of prisoners?
the crown jewel of the Anglo-American judicial tradition is the trial by a jury of peers. it is the more civilized part of it, compared to us continental europeans who have non-elected career magistrates (read: professional technocrats) judging over people. but it can't work, if it is not used, can it?
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can't resist, another thought: we continental europeans have a "love affair" with technocracy. we tend to have elected politicians in Parliaments assigning power, appointing "experts", often commissioning "professionals" and "semi-professionals", where the American tradition is more to have elected officials
meaning that our police chiefs and judges and even Prime Ministers tend to be... technocrats, career professionals and "experts", while in America the Sheriff tends to be elected, as well as the judge, up to of course the immense power of a President of the United States
sounds terribly backward, what we do. unelected prime ministers, unelected governments, unelected judges, unelected police chiefs, and of course an unelected EU Commission
now, one problem, particularly related to elected American Judges: who pays for their increasingly high campaign bills? while there is a private prison business?
I agree with you there, it's obvious to me that no matter how crappy pubic 'commons' and 'systems' are, the private system (whether people approve of it, or not) is always more abusive, corrupt and more expensive.
In business and private life I have been repeatedly and regularly ripped off by any number of private operators. It's so routine it almost goes without saying that they are a bunch of scamming thieves.
From prisons, to banks, to education, to almost anything, it's the same. The public systems are crappy and annoying but the private systems are routinely rotten to the core, corrupt, criminal, vastly and unmeritoriously over-rated, and massively and innately exploitative. They also tend to pump the idea that they are the best and the only way to go, when usually that claim is firstly not tested, and when or if it is, it is almost never the case, often the opposite is true.
Indeed "...the crown jewel of the Anglo-American judicial tradition ..." as law is the ability to declare any stray continent 'unoccupied', and to claim it all as CROWN LAND, then to sell it or give it back as recompense to the poor released involuntary privatized criminals, delivered by private contractors that that disposed of, dispossessed, and exiled them, as involuntary colonists with no chance of seeing their families ever again!
And for days, this week, I have had to listen to this wave of appalling and insane unceasing MSM crap, about a new royal baby being borne, while all of the MSM-rotted brains cooed and ahh-ed at this wonderful royal 'event'. Any self-respecting country would have told the British royals to go to hell by now. Have I ever mentioned how much I detest the House of Windsor? How, on principle, they should all be bound in manacles, and exiled, and sent to seven years of hard slavery, deprivation, illness torture and beatings, and disposed of for all time, and that all they have stolen be resumed and make them pay taxes for food, and make them work to regain even minimal nominal freedom in some place where there is nothing but a tent , a blanket and a spoon for them. Oh, and leg irons.
Scan these links Ghordie, this has been a hot topic here this year:
Private school students have no academic edge over students in the public system, study finds
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-14/study-finds-no-academic-edge-for-p...
Fourth study this year confirms private schools no better than public
http://www.theage.com.au/national/education/fourth-study-this-year-confi...
Private school education has little effect on a child’s academic success; new research
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/private-school-education-has-...
State school kids do better at uni
http://theconversation.com/state-school-kids-do-better-at-uni-29155
Private v Public schooling
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/private-v-public-schooling-20150418-1mm8bn.html
Private schools no guarantee of higher NAPLAN scores, study finds
http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/private-schools-no-guarantee-of...
Despite the basic observed facts and repeatedly measured results and reports, and the staggering endless arrogance of the unmerited believers in private options providers, a belief that ignores all facts on the ground of practical experience - persists still. Private in many areas, simply is not better, it is far worse, just a GIANT ENDLESS INEFFICIENT RIP-OFF of monumental proportions, and the people using it and getting ripped-off by the private sphere can't bring themselves to admit that they've been completely suckered, and are fools who have bought into the imaginary propagated ideological drone nonsense, which they wanted to and were made comfortable to believe in, as the right and proper thing. I won't even go into PPPs, private roads, private utilities and spiral price rises and systematic exploitation. No need, enough said.
If people can't work out what's going on from that, or see the common pattern, they never will.
It would be hilarious, if there were not still so many people far too indoctrinated to even face the most basic of such facts. :-)
strange, eh, that public systems still need (and profit from) people that believe in the public good then those who follow only personal profit
a good soldier is a deeply socialistic minion, believing in his nation and the public good of national defense. contrast him with a some mercenaries
a good educator is a deeply socialistic minion, believing in work and the public good of education. contrast him with some private managers
a good healer is often a deeply socialistic minion, believing in the public good of general health. contrast him with some private health care manager
and this applies to a prison guard, a judge, a public prosecutor, etc. etc.
the real tragedy of some liberal (including libertarian) schools of thought is not in their imho general superiority, it's in how often they start to presume that the profit motive is only thing that drives humans, and often neglect how much the "base community" is the very basic pillar on which they stand on
and the worst part is when they act as vampires on those "communal things", driven by selflessness and belief in group well-being, just to be... cashed in by weasels who hide behind Liberty and Business-friendliness
hahaha! ... beautifully put once again Ghordie ...
An honest technocracy sounds like a good idea, but if the system they serve is corrupt- it makes minimal difference.
In the case of the US, elected judges and prosecutors are still accountable to the people, and can be removed by the people if the reach too far. However, their knowledge of the law often leaves a lot to be desired, regardless of who is paying for their elections.
The US also has appointed technocrats, like Chief Justice John Roberts, an unelected professional who unilaterally decided that Obamacare was a tax. The Pharmaceutical and Insurance industries must have gotten him as a freebie or kicker from the politicians who anointed him Chief Justice.
UR, look, we seem to differ on one thing only: how much US Gerrymandering is the root of all this
watch the British elections of tomorrow. note how relatively few "safe districts" they have. contrast this with the US
every time I have to rail against something rotten, in the UK, it's always an MP from a "safe district" behind it. and the same applies to "party list warts", on the continent
accountability to the people has to function. if it does not, the rot sets in
the first parliament had two knights sent from every Common. That's from the well-tested ancient Roman method of having two elected officials instead of one elected semi-tyrant claiming to be the only one fit to speak for his constituency. it starts there. at the very basics. hence the Swiss have a Federal Council of seven magistrates, and appoint a military Commander in Chief only during emergencies
Gerrymandering just isn't one of those things gives me jock itch when I travel back to 'Murica. One of the larger differences between the two shores of the pond is the US two party system, which does make me scratch my head in disbelief and aggravation.
If gerrymandering, which is primarily a tool of governors and State legislatures for maintaining their power, was such an issue, then the incumbent members of the House of Representatives would have a much higher re-election rate than incumbent members of the Senate. (Perhaps they do, but I haven't seen the studies, and I guess a nation in the United States of europe is about the size of a State in the USSA, so I can run with the UK thing... EuroTexas).
As I see it in the US, the boundaries get re-drawn evey ten years, so the most that happens is that power is transferred from one to the other face of the one party system for the next ten years, so a US Representatives would effectively have 10 year cycles instead of 2.
In Virginia, it's actually codified into State law that there are only two political parties. Whereas, in Europe, there are real, viable minority third, fourth, fifth, et al.... parties who could face being "erased" by politicians and their cartographers, but as you mentioned the Party Lists ensure that the absolutely unelectable can be elected anyway if they have the backing of TPTB.
Perhaps if there were real alternative political parties in America I would care more, but I think there are other prerequisites that need to be addressed first to ensure the existence, viability, and survival of real alternatives there.
As it stands the barriers to entry in the US seem to dictate a strategy of storming the walls in off-year elections at the more local levels. Where it is possible to defeat the gerrymanderers without the backing of their false-opposition. Of course, there would be some wisdom to addressing the gerrymandering issue before storming the walls, but the likelihood of either seems low right, and the mechanism for doing so from the outside seems non-existent.
UR, pardon me, you are one of the most respected ZH commenters, and one of the reasons why I still spend so much time here
nevertheless... could not agree less with the above comment. I sense knee-jerk. I could point you to similar instances where I suffered the same, here, if it helps
I mentioned the continental "party list warts". but the system(s) usually ensure that the party cadres, a minority of a party, is so "safe". that's partial rot, and here, whole parties can be sent to the knackers. and this happens often, relatively speaking
the real alternative parties would be there, in the US. They are unelectable because the system is rigged against them and Americans tend to live in zip-codes among "their kind", helping the process, and then Gerrymandering is done on top of all
the issue is old. last time some weasels tried, or at least claimed to try to rectify it, and you got the 17th Amendment. my point about 1913 is that it was claimed the State Legislatures were corrupt... and people agreed with that claim, enough to have a constitutional amendment
if you have to compare to Europe, compare to a pre-crisis Greece, for example, where people felt Brussels was less corrupt then Athens, and with Spaniards, Italians and Portuguese sharing that feeling regarding their own capitals. without having more patriotic feelings for Brussels, mind you. just from a point of view of electors sensing where corruption was more or less rampant
no, still ignorant on many US issues, and still seldom in the US. I only claim an extensive, decade-long amateur "scholarly" interest in all kinds of political systems, world wide
Tea Party. Occupy. the Liberal Party, distinct from the Democratic Platform. Libertarians. Socialists. various Conservatives, distinct from the Republican Platform
I beg you to reassess your "Perhaps if there were real alternative political parties in America I would ..."
Thanks for the compliment. You really are too polite sometimes, me- not so much, but I plead 'Murican (sometimes). I don't think the response was knee-jerk. I think was a deliberate oversimplification that perhaps came across as a bit flippant, but whole thing was as structured as the dick joke therein. So here's a slightly more verbose response, which is slightly less of an oversimplification (of my eccentricity or insanity).
If you want to drag the 17th in to this, then the State Legislatures in the US are even more corrupt today than they were a century ago, though their share of the headlines and the political dollars is smaller in relative terms to the federal corruption. Being a rabid Anti-Federalist the ideal solution to me is always devolution, and stripping the State Legislatures of the power to draw lines which transgress local boundaries and authority would be ideal. However, the more likely outcome of naming "non-partisan" "professionals" to do so on behalf of the State Legislatures, doesn't actually remove the corruption or restore authority to the people, or faciliate smaller groups of citizens holding State and federal officials accountable for their actions.
Prioritization of the changes necessary for viable and real alternatives always leads me back to campaign finance. Thank you John McCain and 9 unelected technocrat judges. There should be limits on free speech and buying ballot boxes. There are plenty of acceptable options, and reasoned alternatives involving various restrictions on contributions, limits on campaigning, public finance, minority access to debates, and the like. Ideally they would addressed concurrently at the Federal, State, and Local levels. There are also the de jure structural impediments that must be addressed before third parties can affect any change. The statutory prohibition on third parties in Virginia is an extreme example, but there is 200 years of evolution in the US of the mechanisms of legislative governance which has occurred within and F.B.O. a two-party system.
In the mean time we actually have a couple dozen political parties in the US, but only two parties can be elected to federal office, (the two nominal "independents" only serve with the acquiescence and lack of competing candidates of the "D" party in the Senate). At the State level neither the Green Party nor the Libertarian Party hold any seats in either the upper or lower houses (and gerrymandering only affects lower houses, for better or worse).
Re-edumacation is a generational solution that would be undercut by existing vested interests. Splintering of an existing majority party only to swallow the deceased host's corpse is the tried and true American faux-solution. Actual reform is a tough row to hoe. I think the existing 3rd parties need to devote more resources to election to the corrupt State Houses than a Presidency they will never win (without an abnormally large personality cult deigning to receive their nomination), or a US Congress they structurally cannot reform as an irrelevant minority and "passing trend" (which they will be if they have no permanent presence in the State Houses). The Tea Party-- could a headless Al Queda defeat the MIC in a pitched battle? Not without a head, which in this case would (probably) necessarily lead back to a personality cult. OWS-- headless and spineless (and the "D" party will never let them borrow a spine from the Labor wing to oppose the host).
If the US entertains a third party personality cult (regardless of whether its modeled on the Tea Party growing one or a Ross Perot/Michael Bloomberg, since I don't believe there is anyone qualified to reprise the Theodore Roosevelt route) the infatuation with 3rd parties will just be like a slightly expanded TV season of Celebrity Apprentice.
Damn, I've reassessed and now I'm even more bummed about the prospect of reform in 'Murica. Perhaps when I get done with my current fight with the government of Virginia I'll fight to join it. Sure would be nice if the Europeans walked that plank first. First one to 100 million voices simultaneously shouting "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!" wins, but no trophy if conquered ground can't be held for two cycles.
Be thankful that this problem only exists at the very top. At least you still have a working system for the regular people.
I think a light just went on. 'They' will promote the backward unelected European system worldwide because once the US looks really bad, they can just say 'well see, that system was just no good'. The problem is, if you want to, you can subvert any system and make it look bad.
Well you seem to have had quite a change of heart reading your next comment below..
The jury convicted him of the crime because according to the law, they clearly did commit it. It's not up to the jury to decide that the penalty is unfair. It wasn't their fault that it carries a max 15 years, which unluckily the convict automatically got.
I have yet to see a clearly unfair jury trial that has been put on the news. Europe is a bunch of bureaucrats that hide behind vague laws. Yes, nothing is scarier to me regarding the law if you get entangled in it and the people in charge have the power to do what they like because the law is intentionally vague. US population is extremely lucky to have an effective foundation of civil and criminal laws. .
The laws in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia are also clearly written.
You might want to examine the derision Americans cast towards the "burkatini" and the neanderthals who must be responsible for such prudishness, and then look at the men's swimsuits worn under the American Taliban. On the on hand, it explains why Europeans could view Americans as prude neanderthals stuck in the dark ages, but it doesn't explain Americans' comical fear of DICK.
There is a legal distinction between nudity and indecency, but 15 years in prison for indecency is about as Medieval as death for drug possession and life sentences in debtor's prisons for failing the production quota on Uncle Sam's demesne.
In civlized societies, you have the freedom and discretion to ask someone to "cut it out" if what they are doing is actually a legal offense, then the police have the authority to make them cut it out and write them a ticket if they need to be dragged into the situation. And if the indecent behavior becomes a habitual problem - then the judges have the leeway to interrupt their lives with a few weeks in prison.
The American Prison State System is about keeping the serfs in their proper place, and giving prosecutors the leeway to have any serf remanded for life if they get out of line. If a wealthy retired couple from the neighborhood has been seen going at it on the beach, would they facing 15 years in prison?