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German Greens Propose Radical Greek Debt Solution
Submitted by Raul Ilargi Meijer via The Automatic Earth blog,
In its German language edition, Der Spiegel ran a piece last night (translation is mine) about a proposal from the German Green Party (Die Grünen) to deal with the Greek debt crisis that is radically different from how its own government has so far approached the situation. The Greens are not in the Berlin government, but they are a force in German politics regardless, if only because the country loves so much to portray itself as green.
The Green Party’s euro working group, made up of foreign policy, finance and economic specialists, first of all says that, realistically speaking, it will take 10-20 years to deal with Greece’s debt issues.
Furthermore, while many of the Greek problems are ‘home-made’, the “one-sided focus”, on the part of its creditors, on a high primary surplus has led to further economic collapse and thus growing debts. “Austerity is broken and has failed.” (‘die Kaputtsparpolitik ist gescheitert’). Moreover, today’s short-term crisis management, which merely moves from one payment to the next, needs to stop.
Future reforms should no longer target ordinary citizens, but above all the wealthy and the profiteers of ‘nepotism’. If Athens is consistent in applying these reforms, it would be rewarded with further reductions in interest rates and repayment terms.
From this vantage point, the Green Party proposes the following scenario:
Primary surpluses achieved until 2020 should remain in the country for Athens to finance its domestic programs with, and not be used for debt servicing.
Greek debts to the ECB and IMF should be taken over – and serviced – by the European Stability Mechanism (ESM) as part of a third loan program, in return for an ‘ambitious reform program’. This loan program would need to stay in place until the Greeks can, as a result of the reforms, service their own obligations again. The reform program should serve to achieve an effective and sustainable government reform, to stabilize the economy and to create a stable framework for investment in Greece.
Athens wouldn’t have to start servicing its European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF) loans until 2022.
New and additional loans could be awarded for which Greece will only have to pay interest in times of economic growth. This idea, earlier also raised by the Syriza government, is modeled on the 1953 plan according to which Germany was allowed to pay war debts only in times when it had trade surpluses.
We’ll have to wait and see how much weight the German Greens carry in Europe. They have 10% of the seats in the German parliament, and the European Green alliance has just 7% in the European parliament.
It is, however, obvious that alternative views exist to those prevalent among the troika members, whose unity also threatens to be shattered as substantial differences between EU and IMF standpoints have started floating to the surface.
However it may be, it’s not a plan that Merkel and Schäuble can just sweep under the carpet. They will have to come with a well-argumented response.
And Greece will need to be offered a way to make its next set of debt payments, starting with a big one on May 12.
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Bullish green nailguns
Are there any lenghts to which they will not go, any innsane contortions that will not be tried to avoid a simple default? Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, default doesn't mean everyone is lined up and shot in the street. It just means money can't be repaid. It isn't the end of the world (though it might be the end of the Euro).
This is like watching the insane contortions that the Fed and US Treasury twisted our financial system into in 2008-2009 to "save" it. From which we will not recover without.... guess what?.... a bigger collapse later.
For God sake, let it fucking go already.
Just send in Repo Man and take your collateral back!!
No question NoDebt, the answer is simple. Default. Eventually, that will be the outcome, so just do it. Move on. Humanity must make this leap, even if it means 'back to the stone-age'.
This FUBAR situation is all about trying to keep the derivatives from being triggered. A Greek default does just that. It will blow the banks to smithereens, and nobody has the currency to stuff that gigantic black hole. The Greens are a day late and an Euro short with their idea, but who knows. If there is a possibility these bozos could kick the can yet again, especially into a time period when they don´t have to deal with the crisis on their watch, they will gladly do it....regardless of how much it costs or if past "treaties" get in the way.
What is so great about the Green proposal? It would saddle the ESM with the debt and the Greeks give some lipservice about "reforms" and keep the party going. I know that default is a crap shoot but giving the Greeks more just to defer the inevitable is not attractive either. If ESM absorbs the Greek debt, then Greece has to leave the Euro and try and fight it alone with a new Drachma. They have to try and raise funds on their own. Sink or swim.
Derivatives yes. default is their trigger IF the definition holds. If they can instead induce the debt holders to take one small penny as settlement in lieu of default, derivatives will not be triggered and given that a lot of those that will have to pay up are probably holding some of this debt, they would likely be happy to lose all of their Greek debt to avoid the shit storm that a derivative payout would trigger.
Its a terrible fucked up game. One where the intent was never honorable, but simply to win by forcing others to lose more.
F***ing bankers have no sense of humor.
They need to be able to laugh at a few Defaults or ADMIT they have Overplayed Everything and screwed up the system.
Think of Hank Paulson standing in front of the Camera looking concerned. Then you hear he said it would be martial Law in the Streets wo Bailout - BUT GET THIS THEY DIDN'T WORK ON FIXING ANYTHING AT ALL AFTER THAT.
They are Criminals suck the life blood from everyone, then privatizing the Loses and giving themselves Bonuses for it.
- They probably believe their own Evil Thinking/Group Think.
- Save US from this Group Thinking Bankers.
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- The Bankers all Put this System together -
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- Come on People. It is not like the Bankers DIDN't KNOW WHAT THEY WERE DOING. Bankers should suffer Defaults. Defaults are part of Capitalism and Risk taking. What do you think the Interest Rate is supposed to Represent. If they Get BAILOUTS every time big money is involved, then... get rid of High Interest Rates. Simple. Let people give themselves Credit without interest, if they fail they can't start a new business for 8 years.
- Look Bankers Make $100 Million a year, but if it is big money default, then shouldn't they lose all that when Default or Bailout Happens?
Great Point.
Yes agree, I'm not impressed with the Greens Plan. Greens may have had some power in the 1970-80s, but they don't attract smart people in banking, finance, bookkeeping, and intentional law.
There are glaring problems with the corporate Bailouts of Greece, the creative accounting of supposedly reputable banks involved in Greek Restructuring prior to their adopting the Euro. Was it Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, and another US Bank? Why don't they take a Financial Ratings Hit for this Greek Bailout Story?
1. Green party seems to think Greek Debt only needs more time and relief from payments. That is a big Assumption I disagree with.
2. How many other European Countries also could use Relief from Payments, at least 4 (PIIGS). Don't Green Party Members Read ZH?
3. Green Party is playing into the hands of the Bankers by thinking that Corporate Bailouts are fair solutions to a country in trouble. No, these are examples of Vulture Capitalism. Going deeper into debt with credit cards by paying only the interest rate is stupid. Jeez!
It appears the IMF Debt Relief applies to many countries in a failed system, napalm austerity.
- Power is played out like a bully on a playground.
- Anyone that supports the IMF Plan and Austerity is safe.
- Anyone that helps Greece Default will have his name published and his reputation attacked. Anyone that speaks against the IMF & Austerity will be called a Kook and a Radical Lefty.
- IMF & Big Bankers get bonuses and Incentives to keep the Debts Alive, keep debt payments going, keep drawing the Interest Payments, and the Target is all Assets & Money Flows or Funds.
- Just visualize Schable getting angry and you know he is not helping anyone but the Failed System that is sucking the blood out of everyone in Europe & USA.
Long Greek salad.
Let's tear that German word for AUSTERITY apart
Kapputsparpolitik
Kapputs = broken, broke
Par = Par for the course, Normal
Politik = well, duh?
A Policy of Broke Being Normal.
not exactly. there's a slight parsing error. It's more like:
Kaputt - broken
spar - from sparen = to save
Politik = politics, policy
So it's like "saving until you break" policy
And it isn't really the word for austerity, it's more of a derogatory label applied to the policy of the current government by an opposition party.
'ist gescheitert' => 'has turned into shit' ... by my rough guess. (?)
That means "has failed", but your answer is still in the ballpark.
troika will either do some fancy bookkeeping or greece will indeed default this month.
simple as that.
Double post deleted.
Greece will not be allowed to default, and Soros won't pay any tax, the underclass won't work and will get their bribe money, the politicians and bureaucrats will get their hopped up benefits, the bankers will start more wars to rob the taxpayers, and the producers will continue to get farqued and go quietly to the slaughter.
There are many Judas Goats among us that we vote for over and over that lead us to the chutes. I no longer participate. We need an Amendment, a winning NOTA vote and the department and positions are ELIMINATED, no revoting for other replacement psychopaths. People will then pay attention and people will approach 100% non-coerced participation.
The strongest shoulders should bear the heaviest burdens. It is straightforward logic.
is that how the kids are saying "from each according to his ability to each according to his needs" these days?
The basis of the comment you are replying to is the word 'should', with a 'best proximate cause' of the source of the authorty referenced in that way being "straightforward logic" which, while rather accurate as far as that explanation goes, is also shared by those (long ago) who based the start of building the church (under heavy opposition) through voluntary giving by those who had which was to be disributed by the leaders of that stage of the church (much closer then to the time of Jesus the Christ) to those as they had need.
Currently, in this world system Lucufer is apprently leading, I hope any well-intended redistribution efforts go well in this now existing time of violated godly money standard (stable money) and violated godly financial-interaction guidelines (voluntary, mutally benificial trade within a framework of justice for all while loving even our enemies), but I am not sure of a positive outcome for any such efforts. After all, I usually see the 'from those able; to those in need' as a cover message for systems of 'give me what you have; I want that', either out of ignorance on how to design such a system or simply through deceit.
Sign of the times, and hope there are many well-intentioned people also using godly methods, even now.
Holy ghosts rule, huh?
Proof it.
My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can't believe how easy it was once I tried it out. This is what I do... www.jobs-review.com
Throw the Greeks and the German Greens out of Europe already.
Something tells me they are all about to be ran over by a Russia bus...
Bureaucrats listening to a political party. That's a good one.
Um, no. Mr. Onassis is not down with that.
Exactly - pull from the shipping industry. The largest in the world.
And the greatest competitor to the German shipping industry in Europe. You don't see a link there do you? Also the thing about ships, they are not bolted down. You can change a ship's registration in a couple of days today. So in the end it will be Greece that loses from all this.
Nobody really cares about the German shipping industry in Germany, exept a few mayors of port towns on the German coast. It´s just another branch of so many of the German economy.
I have German blood. Why shouldn't it be Greece that loses from all this. Were they somehow mis-led ? Or did they mis-lead ? Aside from shipping and olives (and perhaps tourism) what can they offer ? In my totally un-educated opinion they seem to be leeches. Individually - I have known some Greek emigrants and they have been some of the nicest, most considerate people but perhaps that is why they were emigrants.
Greece should be kicked out and left to default no question about this. The problem is that the more they try to rescue Greece and intervene in this, the more money Greece will suck out f them and in the end they will end up losing more. Look at it this way, Greece is on the hook for something like EU330B. So how many times over do you have to sell everything in Greece in order to get that back. Do you think that pushing the debt to 450 or 0.5T will make things any easier? In the end Greece will collapse totally, become a civil war region like Somalia (it is already a failed state) and create a huge mess in the Eastern Mediterranean. The only question I keep asking my self is why is everyone trying so hard to rescue that empty shell, if things are going so great for the rest of the EU. Probably because the entire EU is bakrupt and it will begin to show.
+1 agent default, thank you.
The Greeks are in the EU and in the Euro because our overlords in the White House and on Wall Street want it that way. This the only reason. Nobody in Europe wants the Greeks in. The EU is a Western European community, the Greeks are Orthodox and shouldn´t be a part of it right from the beginning. The Greeks are just the usefull idiots for the Anglo-American empire to weaken Europe.
The people are lazy. Everyone wants something for nothing. Politicians are happy to give them something for nothing especially at election time. The bankers just enable the usurous politicians and the give me something for nothing crowd to kick the can to the next generation. The Greek shit show is just the first little domino to lean over. Soon it will fall and then the bigger dominos of Spain, Italy, France will follow all the way until the German, English and American banks fold under the weight of serial soveriegn defaults. Its what happens after that that scares me....
Stop trying to blame everything on the US. Take responsibility for your own acts. The EU commissars and their fellow travellers in Germany and France wanted every country in Europe to be part of the EU and they haven't stopped their expansionist plans.
Greece is part of the EU and the EZ because those controlling the EU and EZ wanted Greece in.
What euro ".5t" will "make easier", I agree, is the CDS style markets of Credit Default Swap type transactions that would also then need to be made good, and having a bigger pool of Greek debt to sell such options against for princely sums ahead of any possible ''make right' moment.
When 2008 hit, because the sub-prime mortgage industry first started experiencing defaults, Goldman Sachs got their long standing competitor (Lehman Bros) drug into the street and shot, and we 'had to' cover every other organization who didn't realize at first what the hit was out on, so thought at first there might be actual failure of actual failed financial organizations, so things like AIG with crazy CDS exposure on Mortgage Backed Securities 'had to' be 'bailed out' vs 'failed out' to provide proper moral hazard incentives for the financiallization industry and instead increase the war-chest of certain strategic finacialization hubs.
With Greece, instead of selling loan products for big enough houses people in America couldn't afford, the Greek politik instead milked the EU's lack of fiscal authority integration to a braking point that:
Creates a great new CDO market and even more fake 'marketable', unsustainable debt
Gave many Greeks a temporary, great national bonus to apparent income with unreal money
Either forces fiscal authority integration on the European Union; as was impossible at first (like 2008 forced trillion-$ defecits in the USSA where they were impossible before)
Or forces a breakup of the EU as a possible outcome through showing others the way out... through nearly wiping out the UE bankster industry with amazing fallout through collapsing-ponzi-scheme mechanics for world-wide bankster banking
Does something else not listed
Does something truely horrifyng, like a nice game of 'thermo-nuclear-warefare' or something similarly, 'successfully computable' to have a 'favorable outcome' for what passes for the leadership of the back-channels of power on this big ball of rock.
War Games was not a bad movie, if a bit long-in-the-tooth stylewise for these days and missing - big data, big sample, machine learning, and the man-machine interface... as well as certain spiritual truths. ;)
Or they can raise german taxes, again. Some people don't understand the meaning of broke.
FINALLY. Fuckin shit on em then....
Ideally the fradulent debt should be wiped and sent back to the criminals responsible, but of course too many unwitting suckers are holding it and mad they got tricked and here we are demanding another 10 pounds of flesh from the Greeks while these fat ass oligarchs sit unscathed?
Death to the New World Order. Period. Kill it. WTF News sincerely hopes Black Bloc or ACAB or any one else committed finally comes unglued and starts speaking in a language the criminals understand.
They can always default and walk away from the debt. So why don't they?
If they default who will loan them money?
If they can't borrow MORE money how will the Greek government make payroll and pension payments?
Bankruptcy is a balance sheet clearing event. What your balance sheet looks like after you get rid of the unpayable obligations looks radically different than it did only a day before.
haircuts coming will reveal every scar since birth...
Greece is just the beginning of a long list of Western Government defaults. They made grandiose promises to get elected but never considered how to pay for it.
They will not be allowed to default. The Greeks will be bled literally to death, but they will not be allowed to default. Exactly because it will be the beginning of the default sequence.
It's not as simple as 'just default'... that causes a lot of finacial pain for the nailgun weilding types. The financialization empire and leadership behind the scenes will fight that. See my previous post for a brief condideration of some issues and surrounding context if you like.
A German game of "kick the can".
More drivel from the raging Marxists, Communists and Stasi informants who reinvented themselves as "Greens" after the fall of the Berlin wall. Exactly who are the "wealthy and the profiteers of nepotism"? It looks to me that they are setting up the stage for wealth taxes that will eventually spread throughout the EU. Of course as the policy begins to fail, the threshold of "wealthy" will be constantly lowered, eventually applying to everyone who is not living on welfare. Which goes well together with their other theories of de-development and de-industrialization.
BULLSEYE !!!!!!!!!!!!
THE GERMAN GREENS ARE SOCIALIST PARASITE SCUM MASQUERADING AS ENVIRONMENTALISTS - ALL OF THEM SHOULD BE DEPORTED TO GREECE.
How about Afghanistan? The further away the better.
Just look at France's new capital controls - pathetic
Predicted. And the greeks will now have no more problems with Europe taking over.
Stage 1 is nearly complete.
And give it 1 more decade and half of Europe will be under direct control of the unelected european parasites In the europarlement...
A greenie for the Green Party
Why? You don't think the Greeks would have tried going after their "nepotists aka oligarchs" if they could?
Greens are delusional and living in utopia where money grows on trees and electricity comes from your power plugs.
Old trick: If you need to move the Bookends, but can't appear to do so, you get an unlikely party (Useful Tool) to do it for you.
Next.
Green Shoots? Or Shoot Greens?
After the end of the cold war and the opening of the Stasi records, some of them should have just been arrested and charged with very serious things, or just sent to a CIA prison for further interogation. But you know, reconciliation and other nonsense has kept them out of jail.
I will ASSUME the Green party is not on the hook for billions in Greek debt.
Funny how people with no skin in the game don't mind hurting those that do have a stake in things.
What does being green have to do with the Greek debt problem....they can only use recycled ink when they print more money....or recycled paper....yeah right..the Greeks will never have enough extra money to pay a loan payment...give a politician that option and they will spend whatever they can and then some...you dont think Syzira wants everyone to have a full pension and only work 20 years....Socialism is thier name....free moey for everyone
How about starting by replacing government with open source software and at least bring the country into what the last century had to offer.
They're called the Greens because "Reds" was already taken.
I need a default to boost my gold stocks...
Run Capital, run!
If the Germans paid Greece as their President has admitted for war damage/pilfering repayment and If the UK pays Greece a Mega fine, for having stolen the Elgin Marbles for over 100 years, the total amount paid by these two countries would largely cover the scam of homemade Pasok/Conservaitve Oligarchy pilfering which is enrichening all those thuggish banks and impoverishing the 99% of Europe.
Get the non-dom oligarchs in uk to contribute to the Elgin Marbles fine and get the German surplus to finance the rip off of banksta combine; and you will find the missing 320 billion Euro like a drop of a hat.
Thats what the next UK election winner should have voted in Parliament and Mutti have shoved around her Bundestag's neck like a hangman's noose.
There is so much money sitting in corporate bank accounts in tax havens used for buybacks and kick backs and up your 99% ass type plays that it makes the world sick to its deep innards.
10-20 years give or take a world war or two...
Greek depositors, or more correctly, withdrawers, have removed some 28 billion Euro from Greek banks leaving cash levels at the lowest in 10 years. Bet the farm that negative interest rates and "transaction fees" are just the first volley in the "War on Cash" being waged by the worlds central bankers.
http://www.globaldeflationnews.com/more-proof-that-central-banks-have-de...
I think many of us agree that the current formula of socialized risk/loss and privatized reward/gains is a problem everywhere, including Greece and the US. But the solution is not to socialize everything, it's to privatize the risk/loss component (or re-privatize it, as the case may be).
Drivel.
People produce. They have no choice. They will starve if they don't.
EXCEPT...GOVERNMENT PEOPLE (and those who own pet politicians)
They dont' have to produce.
They implement large scale governments (larger than local) for the express purpose of getting their hands on taxes in return for pie-in-the-sky pork projects which society lacks the means to afford, and subsequent to construction, lack the means to maintain.
Having thus sucked all the capital out of the country using the government as a straw, they then move over the border and cluck their tongues at the irresponsible peasants of their former homeland.
The Greek Government cannot solve the problem, because the Greek Government IS THE PROBLEM. Without them, the priviliged oligarchs would have to buy off every local government separately...and that would make the whole venture unprofitable to them.
You've just been warned about the nature of confederate government without strictly limited authorities...and sometimes even with the limits...because an obstacle to authority overreach is only as good as those who guard it.
...an obstacle to authority overreach is only as good as those who guard it.
THIS.
The fact is, the world is in this state because humanity let it happen to itself. And by humanity, I mean a majority of the humans who comprise the world. Sure, lots of us can see the psychopathic parasites for what they truly are. But we don't outnumber those who either cannot or will not do so. And so we are doomed to be dragged over the cliff by the majority.
This is the folly and the evil of "democracy." This is why America was founded as a representative republic with strict Constitutional limitations upon Federal government power. And this is why Franklin said - "...if you can keep it."
Evidently, we couldn't.
Our "Greens" here in Germany also demand to open all doors to facilitate whole Africa and the rest of the world to immigrate into our social systems.
Here in Germany they are mainly perceived as a big failure in life. They always cover minority positions not considering any financial consequences and they are not taken seriously by other parties.
Citation: "Greek debts to the ECB and IMF should be taken over - and serviced - by the European Stabilitäy Mechaism (ESM) as part of a third loan programm, in return for an 'ambitious reform program'.
How many "ambitious reform programs" are running parallel already? The yearly financial burden for Athen is extremly low in relation to what they owe to the taxpayers here. But Greece is neither willed nor used to pay back anything. They don't know how to "save money" - but they are experts to find each penny in other peoples pockets, to evade taxes and spend other peoples money arround the world. It's ridiculous.