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There Will Be No 25-Year Depression
Good and Bad News
Today, we have bad news and good news. The good news is that there will be no 25-year recession. Nor will there be a depression that will last the rest of our lifetimes.
The bad news: It will be much worse than that. On Monday, the Dow rose another 43 points. Gold seems to be working its way back to the $1,200 level, where it feels most comfortable.
“A long depression” has been much discussed in the financial press. Several economists are predicting many years of sluggish or negative growth. It is the obvious consequence of several overlapping trends and existing conditions.
Newspaper from October 24 1929, a.k.a. “Black Thursday” – at this point, the panic had just begun with the market losing 11% in one day. On the next two trading days (Friday and Saturday – at the time, the market was open on Saturdays) the market rebounded slightly, then came “Black Monday” and “Black Tuesday”, which erased all doubt about the seriousness of the situation
Old People Are Dead Wood
First, people are getting older. Especially in Europe and Japan, but also in China, Russia and the US. As we’ve described many times, as people get older, they change. They stop producing and begin consuming.
They are no longer the dynamic innovators and eager early adopters of their youth; they become the old dogs who won’t learn new tricks.
Nor are they the green and growing timber of a healthy economy; instead, they become dead wood. There’s nothing wrong with growing old.
There’s nothing wrong with dying either, at least from a philosophical point of view. But it’s not going to increase auto sales or boost incomes – except for the undertakers.
Mr. Hislop is looking forward to booming business
Photo credit: State Library of Queensland
The Cure for Debt? More Debt!
Second, most large economies are deeply in debt. The increase in debt levels began after World War II and sped up after the money system changed in 1968-71.
By 2007, US consumers reached what was probably “peak debt.” That is, they couldn’t continue to borrow and spend as they had for the previous half a century. Most of their debt was mortgage debt, and the price of housing was falling.
The feds reacted, as they always do… inappropriately. They tried to cure a debt problem with more debt. But consumers were both unwilling and unable to borrow. Their incomes and their collateral were going down. This left corporations and government to aim only for their own toes.
Central banks created more money and credit – trillions of dollars of it. But since the household sector wasn’t borrowing, the money went into financial assets and zombie government spending.
Neither provided any significant support for wages or output. So, the real economy went soft, even as the cost of credit fell to its lowest levels in history.
In order to revive the credit creation machinery, the Fed has monetized incredible amounts of debt, via Saint Louis Federal Reserve Research. With the end of QE 3, its balance sheet has begun to subtly decline … click to enlarge.
The Cronies Are in Control
Third, the developed economies have been zombified. The US, for example, is way down at No. 46 on the World Bank’s list of places where it is easiest to start a new business. And only one G8 country – Canada – even makes the top 10.
How to get ahead in the world of today….
Cartoon by Stahler
Paperwork. Expenses. Regulation. High taxes. High labor rates. Entrenched competition with aging, loyal customers. All are endemic from Boston to Berlin to Beijing.
Leading industries – heavily controlled and regulated, including defense, education, health and finance – are practically arms of the government. All are protected with high barriers to entry and low expectations. Competition is barely tolerated. Innovation is discouraged. Mistakes are forgiven and reimbursed.
Meanwhile, the masses are encouraged to become zombies too, with generous rewards for those who 1) do nothing, 2) pretend to work or 3) prevent other people from doing anything. After all the zombies, cronies and connivers get their money, there is little left for the productive economy.
How it all works in crony heaven – until it doesn’t anymore – via bastiatinstitute.org
The Solution Begins When Markets Crack
Typically, these problems – too much debt, too many zombies, and too many old people – lead to financial crises. Then, they are “solved” by either inflation or depression. And the solution begins when markets crack.
Markets never go up forever. Instead, they go up, down and even sideways. They breathe in and out. And after sucking in air for the last 30 years, US financial assets are ready to exhale. Legendary asset manager Bill Gross comments:
“When does our credit-based financial system sputter/break down? When investable assets pose too much risk for too little return. Not immediately, but at the margin, credit and stocks begin to be exchanged for figurative and sometimes literal money in a mattress.”
When that happens, problems begin to take care of themselves, in one of two ways…
A quick, sharp depression wipes out the value of credit claims. Borrowers go broke. Bonds expire worthless. Companies declare bankruptcy. The whole capital structure tends to get marked down as debts are written off and financial assets of all kinds lose their value.
Or, under pressure, the feds print money. Debts are diminished as the currency loses its value. The zombies still get money, but it is worth less. Inflation adjustments cannot keep up with high rates of inflation. Pensions, prices and promises fade. Either way, the slate is wiped clean and a new cycle can begin. But what rag will clean the slate now? Stay tuned…
You knew there would eventually be a picture of the living dead.
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Great
Yep: Dark Ages II - The Sequel
Oh God, please.
Will things be horrible for a few years? Yes. Will we get a war out of the deal? Probably. Will we return to the dark ages Book of Eli/Road Warrior style for ever?
No. Quit trying to scare yourself.
But I'm out of other reasons to drink!
Do some reading on what the Soviets did to the Germans, Czech and Polish from 1943-1991. If you're looking for an excuse to drink, there is a lifetime of reasons right there.
The good news is, its always darkest before dawn.
.
This is when its important to be spiritually strong.
Read the piece on Isaiah by Albert Jay Nock. You're preaching to a remnant, but keep preaching it.
Nahhh. Fuck that reading shit..
I'm going out to play golf.
And I expect moar than a few bogies at the 19th hole.
The Cronies SAT test costs 100K just to take, but it's well worth it. They give you the answers.
Bogie (Drone) at 1:00 ---- ZAP...!!!
haha, he used the word "solution"
the newspaper headline said "assasin tried to kill italy crown prince. do you know, he is in switzerland, and is really fucking powerful. not saying that is a good thing.
I think I might have to bust out my dvd of The Road to cheer up.
pods
That is the only movie that gave me nightmares.
It was rough, but not as bad as Jaws.
That fucking movie made me stop taking baths and playing the cello!
pods
pods,
I am going to find my VHS video of Demolition Man and watch it because it looks like the social implications of that movie is happening right before my very eyes. Rat burgers anyone?
So many good movies back in the day that seems ridiculously impossible, actually is 20-30 years later.
i +1 on that comment.
Must-see futuristic film: Sleep Dealer.
Bonus track: Babylon AD.
That is a radically scary future possibility outlined in that movie. I could see some corporation just salivating at the thought of having drone operators running robots that do the work of former foreign migrant workers.
Robots are going to be a game changer. Everyone is talking about the driver-less car, think about the driverless semi-truck? How many people get their living out of the transporation industry. And that is just a few years from being implemented.
The only way that governments will deal with a society where 1% of the population supports the other 99% is to either create artificial GDP through subsidization and endless government programs, or simply eliminate the excess people.
Excess population is *always* eliminated. The only time the unproductive are allowed to stick around is when their existence supports debt creation (EBT, SS, etc) and the debt pyramid. Once the system collapses they are no longer necessary. Look for WWIII or airborne ebola.
Seems there's a lot more watchers than readers here, but the situation (1% supporting the 99%) has been postulated many times in print. One that comes to mind is Kurt Vonnegut's first (I think) novel, Player Piano. Long time since I read it, but it's stuck in my mind. The 99% spend their days on work crews filling in potholes, 20 guys watching one with a shovel. Always rang very true.
When they finally let a candidate like Ron Paul get elected, then you know they are planning to cause economic collapse, race wars, pandenmics, etc. so they can blame it on patriots, libertarians, free-markets etc. More likely than a Ron Paul is a candidate who says libertarian stuff but who is actually another front man to ensure that plans go more smoothly.
Alibaba chairman Jack Ma announced a hiring freeze at the company late last month, leading to concerns that the company has grown too fast and needs to cut costs.
http://money.cnn.com/2015/05/06/investing/yahoo-alibaba-marissa-mayer-ja...
Yes this is a scary picture. What these corporations have failed to take into account is the Henry Ford effect. Mr. Ford believed that he had to pay his employees enough to buy the products they made. If companies completely automate production with robots there will not be enough people with jobs earning enough money to buy their products. They will be writing their own epitaph and that of modern society.
Demolition Man was fairly accurate in its predictions. I liked it for that, even if it was schlock otherwise.
<-We're gonna need a bigger boat (Jaws)
<-Never get outta the boat (Apocalypse Now)
The boat is sinking.
We don't need a bigger (sinking) boat.
What we need are more liferafts.
PS WTF is this article saying? There was almost no content on what author thinks is actually going to happen. Why post what amounts to the preface of an article?
I read JAWS when I was a little kid and had myself convinced there were sharks UNDER my bed!
If you want to get in a good mood listen to this band (Houndmouth) they actually write music, sing, and play instruments.
https://youtu.be/zTAuJBLEwzs?t=6m29s
How off topic is that? Fuck it who cares. I'm being in a good mood today no matter what, even if I get captured.
what great voices
Thanks
pods- umm, you're gonna need a bigger boat. :D
I want the whole fucking thing to collapse and burn... I am betting on savvy innovation of the human race to pick ourselves back up and more forward without the fiat debt banker, sociopath, globalist, elite, MIC, politician fucktards.
The sad thing is, when this whole shit show collapse's, the people who need to be held responsible, won't be. They will be off to their billion dollar mansions in new zealand, while they rest of us feed off the flesh of each other's dead carcasses.
Here's a CrAAPL watch commercial to make you feel better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4TbOiaEHpM
I hadn't seen one till a couple of nights ago when I dozed off on the couch while watching South Park and woke up to one of these watch commercials playing. Notice how they have to concentrate on human interaction more than the damn watch, to sell the idea that people actually like this thing.
Can't say I share the same optimism as CO above regarding 'savvy innovation' lol.
I like this one better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beinUR0YhbM
Oh the irony!!!
1984 won't be like "1984"... but 2014 will!
We'll still have those aircraft carriers and FA-18s. Once the dust settles, I'd be all for bombing those billion dollar mansions in New Zeland.
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
Power Always Corrupts.
A bit more serious about this: The only real difference between rounding up oligarchs and putting them to the guillotine and bombing them is logistics. Ethically, they are equivalent.
That's why decentralization is important.
Mothballed guillotines do travel.
The plan is to kill most of us off, so get either get busy living or get busy dying...
get either get busy living or get busy dying
Nah. Dying comes when you make no choices whatsoever. That's why living is unpopular.
"I am betting on savvy innovation of the human race to pick ourselves back up and more forward without the fiat debt banker, sociopath, globalist, elite, MIC, politician fucktards."
That's more likely now than later and it's not happening now. What's your Plan B for if total collapse doesn't happen? You are betting on other people to save your ass later, but not now. Good luck with that one. The next group of leaders will do the same thing this group is doing, except they will be worse due to desperation. You might want to think about how you are going to save your own ass, whether everything collapses or muddles through (which is much more likely). Because no one cares what happens to you, now or later, and no one is going to save you, ever.
I saw it once. Acting was excellent, definite suspension of disbelief. Can't bring myself to watch it again though. I think a lot of people would have used those last two bullets on their son and themselves, faced with that scenario.
I watched it and then watched it again with my wife. It is really gut wrenching. Very powerful film.
pods
Only McCarthy could convey a parent's deepest, darkest fears like that. Reading it was tough having a young daughter. Vigo Mortenson was brilliant in the movie, exactly how I imagined the character when I read it.
After reading The Road, No Country For Old Men, and All The Pretty Horses,
I thought, "Powerful writer, but grim. Glad he doesn't live next door."
i'm partial to the book of eli (even if i'm not religious in any way shape or form)..the road's a good cheerer upper too.
That was an interesting read. Never heard of him before, but I think there are only a few people willing to listen and capable of understanding the truth.
As was pointed out to me by another ZH'er, it's also always darkest before it goes completely black.
And just to refute this article, YES we will have a 25 year depression. We're already in it. Do you know why? Because Japan.
why do you think both parties are opening the flood gates to allow millions into the country.....more underlying demand.....both for goods and services as well as SNAP cards and govt payouts.....print more, eat more, buy more....
The Rs want cheap labor (that actually shows up to work). The Ds want permanent Democrat voters. We're completely fucked on immigration from both sides. Nobody wants to oppose it.
I think its much more sinister than that, globalists have taken over both parties.... They want to destroy the US from within, and the easiest way to do it is bring in unskilled masses, that so burden the system down that it has to fail.
Its name is Cloward-Piven.
not complete destruction, but perpetual debilitation
Ironically, this neoliberal business elite you correctly identify as the source of globalisation has its roots in the unfettered capitalist system of the United States.
The same capitalist system which Americans for decades have vociferously defended, while going hysterical (e.g.: The Red Scare) against any voices who tried to offer them alternatives.
Does wisdom come with the elderly years?
actually it's older then that. the First Age of Globalization was started by the British Empire, and shortly interrupted by two world wars. then NY picked up from London, it's sister city
Apples and oranges, frankly. The British Empire was based on colonial exploits under aristocratic rule. It was an altogether different beast from the globalisation process of today's neoliberal corporate elites.
Yeah but money is still controlled by The City of London.
Is it? Because I get the impression that money is controlled by those who don't give a shit about borders. NY, London, Basel, etc...
I would say so. Her face is on the money of 3 nations, all the big banks are there, and special rules are set aside for bankers there. So yeah, I would say that the City of London (not London) is the heart.
pods
"The British Empire was based on colonial exploits under aristocratic rule"
perhaps. nevertheless, it was the "motor" of the First Age Of Globalization
Have a look how Lord Keynes wrote about it after it ended:
"What an extraordinary episode in the economic progress of man that age was which came to an end in August, 1914! The greater part of the population, it is true, worked hard and lived at a low standard of comfort, yet were, to all appearances, reasonably contented with this lot. But escape was possible, for any man of capacity or character at all exceeding the average, into the middle and upper classes, for whom life offered, at a low cost and with the least trouble, conveniences, comforts, and amenities beyond the compass of the richest and most powerful monarchs of other ages. The inhabitant of London could order by telephone, sipping his morning tea in bed, the various products of the whole earth, in such quantity as he might see fit, and reasonably expect their early delivery upon his door-step; he could at the same moment and by the same means adventure his wealth in the natural resources and new enterprises of any quarter of the world, and share, without exertion or even trouble, in their prospective fruits and advantages; or he could decide to couple the security of his fortunes with the good faith of the townspeople of any substantial municipality in any continent that fancy or information might recommend. He could secure forthwith, if he wished it, cheap and comfortable means of transit to any country or climate without passport or other formality, could despatch his servant to the neighboring office of a bank for such supply of the precious metals as might seem convenient, and could then proceed abroad to foreign quarters, without knowledge of their religion, language, or customs, bearing coined wealth upon his person, and would consider himself greatly aggrieved and much surprised at the least interference. But, most important of all, he regarded this state of affairs as normal, certain, and permanent, except in the direction of further improvement, and any deviation from it as aberrant, scandalous, and avoidable. The projects and politics of militarism and imperialism, of racial and cultural rivalries, of monopolies, restrictions, and exclusion, which were to play the serpent to this paradise, were little more than the amusements of his daily newspaper, and appeared to exercise almost no influence at all on the ordinary course of social and economic life, the internationalization of which was nearly complete in practice."
-— John Maynard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, pp. 10 –12 "
there you have it: unhindered free borderless movement of capital, people, goods and services
globalization is nothing else then that, and the world until 1914 was way more globalized then today
The British Empire didn't offshore their industry; they monopolized the sources of their raw materials via colonization.
The current globalists are fundamentally different because they have zero loyalty to their own nominal country (or countries as most of them have multiple citizenships).
This is a fundamental difference.
One thing about sociopaths is that few are good at long term planning. IMO, this is all about shortsightedness, next quarter's profits and control of the markets.
Correct. For all their intellectual acumen, psychopathic individuals tend to be impulsive, and are prone to focus on short-term gratification. In the business world, this translates to pay rises for the top brass and dividends to shareholders at the expense of the company's long-term strategies, as you pointed out.
As usual, the consequences are served to the lower decks while the top brass have already ejected with a golden parachute.
Which is why, even if you can find a smoking gun pointing to plans for complete global domination, it won't last. (I think global supply chains fit that bill.) This bitch is going to come crashing down on all of our heads.
Yes, this bitch is going to burn. I remember an old neighbor I had who was a german jew and survived a work camp. In his younger days he worked for a bank. It was interesting to note that in Germany and the US during the depression the banks went after the low hanging fruit and foreclosed on farms, businesses, and homes that had lots of equity. Those that owed a shit ton or zero equity were passed over. The banks will do this shit again, mark my words. I do not see anything positive coming in the following years...
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eh? "...psychopathic individuals tend to be impulsive, and prone to focus on short-term gratification"? sociopaths "not good in long-term planning"?
where do you get this kind of theories? they are either dumb (and therefore land quickly in prison) or smart, at which point they can... drum rolls... overcome their disability
because you have forgotten that it is a disability. like blindness. they don't have a natural disposition to empathy. that's all. but they can learn to cope with it
and then, they usually excel in long-term planning
Read the sneering, smug Marxist EuroClown for pure entertainment value only.
It alternately passes along tired, disproven Communist boilerplate, or simply spews broadbrush, reflexively anti-American bullshit out of thin air.
Duplicate
note that I am talking about the pathology known as sociopathy. and that really works this way. sociopaths do function, in society, just they have to make the effort of thinking about things which others, to various degrees, feel without effort
for example if someone is going to be mad at what you are planning to do, and why, and which feelings would have been hurt, and so on
Yes, and to take over the world, they need to think about what 7+ billion people are thinking and feeling, plus the insane complexity of today's global economy, plus resource shortages. While everybody may lose in such a battle, they will not win.
And as we know....feelings are everything.
Talk of short term thinking and "feelings" in the same breath and realize they are one in the same. Impulse driven economics AND public policy.
Talk of Dems and Repubs seems almost quaint these days. Look, the speeding car we are all riding in has reached the edge of the cliff. Does it really matter whether Thelma or Louise is driving?
If the system lasts another ten years, and democrats are in control during that time, do you think it is more or less likely that you will go into the downturn as a criminal because you own a firearm? 90% of demonrat scum would round up every gun tomorrow if they could.
Same scenario - more or less likely that the border will continue to be a sieve?
In other words, what does the landscape look like when the system breaks down? It does matter. Demonrats would also love to toss the first amendment, at least regarding everything non-sexual. We're drifting along in left-wing tyranny. The country could use some right wing tyranny for a while. If that's impossible, then the system isn't controlled by money, it's controlled by the left, so they are the true enemy. 90% of new GOP lawmakers go to DC intending to reduce the power and scope of the federal govt. All demonrats go with the opposite impulse. There's a problem at the top, it's not a philosophical problem with the party grass roots. We need a takeover of the leadership.
Guns are fundamentally the only issue of importance that the Rs and Ds differ on. Other than that, they are competing crime families who both want to spend more of the protection money that they make you pay. And pay it, you will, else they'll do the government equivalent of sending Vinny in to bust your knees.
"The country could use some right wing tyranny for a while."
FFS haven't you had enough?
lol
yeah, neer mind
More like Bonnie or Clyde...
"We are born naked, wet and hungry. Then things get worse."
"Things are going to get a lot worse before they get worse."
“We have reason to believe that man first walked upright to free his hands for masturbation.”
––Lily Tomlin
"And just to refute this article, YES we will have a 25 year depression. We're already in it. Do you know why? Because Japan."
Japan is one factor. The Baby Boom is the largest factor. You are right that we are in a depression. I'm not sure when the experts will eventually decide it started. 2008, maybe? It will be over by about 2023-2025.
This one has been a lot easier to make money in than the last one, so it's got that going for it. Few people ever learn that fortunes are seeded during depressions and lost during booms.
The bad news is, not everybody makes it to the dawn.
That's not particularly bad news.
duplicate post deleted
There is no "good news"--the implosion will be darker than dark......
@ Blotto: My spirit plans on hanging on to my mind and body. Make sure they are strong too.
The bad news is that we're not even close to the dawn.
Some will survive to the other side, and some will shoot themselves with nail guns.
I'm seeing a US that mirrors the US of 1873-1896, the so-called Long Depression years. Twent-five years ought to be enough to mak eup for the excesses, wipe them out, and start over. I'm only 40 now, so let's get this shit starte already. I want to at least slow down in my 70s. And I want to help clean up this garbage for my little ones. The youngest turns 2 next week, so she will just be getting started in life in 25 years. The oldest is 11, and he already knows how to work hard, so I'm not as worried about him. He will probably be the one to usher in the next economy. And we need more like him.
I hate to tell you this but life expectancy in the US circa 1890 was less than 58.
Those 58 years were filled with healthy food and unmanipulated skies, and we consider those people 'less advanced' than our current lemmingselves.
Romanticizing the past?
Yeah those Coal Fired Power Plants in Manhattan did not leave a sour Sulfur stench with all of the volatiles.
Yeah those twelve to sixteen hour workdays did not even take a toll.
Those inadequate sewage systems did not leave so many exposed to dysentry and typhus.
Tuberculosis was a killer. Of course you could be one of the unluckier few at the end of summer and contract yourself a dose of Polio.
Did you get your History lessons off of the Hollyweird fictional versions from yer TeeVee Set?
Life was rough and grueling before you died early of septicemia from an uncontrolled infection, or, pneumonia.
It must be the ancient astronauts in my head. Perhaps I was thinking about pre-industrial times, when it was just people in the fields, or starving, or dying from plagues. What you say of the industrial era is true. No one ever really had any freedom, I think, but they did eat good food.
Win some, lose some. For whatever 'benefits' of safety/security we gained from the last 200 years of technological refinement, we must have lost at least an equivalent amount of freedom.
They ate good food if they lived on a farm. If they lived in a city, the food that was sold to them was often rotten, contaminated or adulaterated:
"During the 18th and 19th centuries, as the United States shifted from an agricultural to an industrial economy and urbanization disconnected people from food production, the debasement of food for profit became rampant. Milk was often watered down and colored with chalk or plaster—substances which were also added to bulk up flour. Lead was added to wine and beer, and coffee, tea and spices were routinely mixed with dirt, sand or other leaves. Although a number of laws forbade harmful substances from being added to food, they were tough to enforce since there were no dependable tests to prove the existence of pollutants."
In those good old days, you could buy some flour, make pancakes, and die from eating them because of the silica powder that had been used to bulk up the flour (I read about this happening in post-civil war NYC but I can't find the reference now).
http://www.history.com/news/hungry-history/food-fraud-a-brief-history-of...
You have to be careful with those life expectencies. Medicine has been a true revolution and you no longer lose 50% of your kids to childhood diseases. If you only looked at people who make it past 25 to begin with, our life expectencies may very well be dropping compared to those older generations.
Millions of people died during the Great Depression from starvation / lack of nutrition / health consequences, and that was over in less than 10 years.
Yes. And from the sources I have stats put total combined losses on the scale of 80%+ within 9 months if the shit goes south. Due to many factors, vast majority food and medicine along with good ole violence...
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A big difference is that nuclear weapons did not exist in the 19th century. WW III is guaranteed to happen in any long depression today. There are simply too many people on Earth with nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Who ensures that the 400+ nuclear power plants continue to function?
Who provides enhanced security for those facilities, along with the personal security details necessary for the highly trained engineers and technicians attached to these facilities?
Who prevents the 400+ nuclear power plants located around the world from melting down and rendering the Earth a dead planet for all eternity?
WWIII is guaranteed to be a much smaller affair than the last two volumes, with FAR lower casualties. The armies are smaller, the ability to project power is diminished...there are many reasons why. But it will last longer.
But as the poster above me said, if those 400 nuclear weapons (power plants) melt down (as did Fukushima and Chernobly), it would be a bad thing. And they actually don't even need to melt down. Just have their spent fuel pools boil dry.
That, along with a bolide strike, supervolcano, or high mortality epidemic are pretty much the only possible (at least if you are familiar with physics) scenarios for humanity being culled.
The difference is that at the end of the 1873-1896 depression, there was still and abundance of cheap land and natural resources on which to build an economy. Fracking and oil sands can still produce domestic oil, but it won't be cheap - a critical element to building up an economy. Ditto for easy mineral resources. We still have plenty of coal and natural gas, but if we start using them to replace oil, then that "200 years" supply nonsense will be shown for the bullshit it always was.
Globe spanning "just-in-time" supply chains are completely dependent on *cheap* transportation fuel. Expect that to come to a screeching halt, followed by a level of international sea trade that you would expect from sailing ships and solar power vessels - a transition that will only take a few decades.
Your children will grow up in a perma-depression, more or less, where every country (Even China) is struggling to feed 7+ billion people with a lot less available energy, land and resources.
And quite frankly, a lot of people will be starving before the century is out. In We all manage to eat because of extracted oil and mined phosphates. Both are unlikely to be in much use by 2100.
Cheers!
Which means that one way or another there is a precipitous decline in population. Natural selection will be working overtime.
Bollocks. Transportation of goods generates a profit, they will have acess to fossil fuels if they still need them. There are plenty of things that could disrupt the food distributin system, but running out of fossil fuels isn't on the list for another millenium, at least.
Also read what the Germans unleashed in 1939 in Europe which was continuation of WWI and resulted in huge loss of life for all nations with Russia suffering the most casualties. A good reason to drink Vodka and toss Molotov coctails.
Russia probably lost about 20 million citizens. However, the country which lost the highest percentage of the population during the WWII was Poland. For every 1000 citizens 220 were killed. In Russia it was 116.
Overall Poland suffered about 6 million casualties mostly killed by Germans. Russians contributed by killing about half a million Polish citizens.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties_of_Poland
the russians learned about molotov cocktails from the fins. read about the russo-finnish war. fins are badass.
hakkaa päälle !
or instead read up on what the so called "Christian" Americans did to the Native Americans in the 19th century. Putting them in concentration camps, starving them to dead, giving them blankets infested with small pox, etc, etc, etc. If you're looking for an excuse to drink, there is a lifetime of reasons right there.
Dont you fuxers ever stop with your anti Russian propaganda?
all done in the name of Christ and without government involvement
Yes... and Thomas Goodrich's Hellstorm is a good start and a sobering piece of writing....
With socialists in charge it will only get worse - and it will never end. See Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, Spain, Greece, et all for proof.
Bring back the free market capitalist economy that made the U.S. the wealthiest nation in the world in record time. Cut the government back to levels bounded by what's left of the U.S. Constitution.
creepy, wake up, wake up, it is just a dream!
I've got my Che shirt on, what do you think the teacher is going to look like this year?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMPlPJP2brw
"free market capitalist economy"? what the fuck is that? you mean the one that has had central banking fiat backing it up the whole time? especially over the last 100 years...get real. the ONLY reasons we are where we are today is because of printed money and pulling dino bones out of the ground for fuel. is it sustainable? hell no...
It is good that you admit that you have no clue what a free market capitalist economy is. Hopefully you are capable of learning about these things.
The crony capitalist (socialist) system that we have "evolved" into is nothing like a free market capitalist system. Banks "printing" money is not a free market capitalist system. Allowing the market to dicate prices of labor, material, and time is the free market system. The U.S. left that about a century ago in favor of Central Planning. It has been downhill ever since.
I can't hear you, creepy, my tin foil hat is covering my ears
fully capable...can you provide historical examples of a current ( lets say within the last 100 years) functioning free market/capitalist market that have been free of central planning or that has not had its monetary policy dictated by some form of government without having its currency debased? One free of government collusions with corporations, self-regulating and completely voluntary? Maybe I am mistaken or missing something. thank you.
China prior to Chang Kai-shek forcing the banks to dilute their currencies, from about 1906 to 1930. Banks issued their own script, backed by silver. Bank money competed for acceptance / valuation based on perceptions of the stability of the issuing banks. China was the largest free market economy the world has ever seen.
thanks.
... got nothing huh?
It was never like that. Christ, even in high school history you learned about the trusts, if you were paying attention. Nobody has EVER come up with an effective means to prevent wealth from being leveraged into political power.
'the ONLY reasons we are where we are today is because of printed money and pulling dino bones out of the ground for fuel.'
Bull-fucking-shit. The US did NOT have printed money for the first 135 years of its life, and it did quite well. Yep, there were boom/bust cycles, as capitalist theory predicts there will be, but every time, they were survived and the country came back stronger than ever.
Yes, a new energy source helped fuel (couldn't resist) growth, but I doubt we'll be using petroleum for energy in another hundred years, except in a few isolated cases (airplanes?). New battery technologies will make it easier and cheaper to store energy (which will give new life to the solar/wind industry), new nuclear technologies will make nuclear plants smaller, safer, and cheaper, and we will use electric power for almost everything.
The Fed was America's second biggest mistake.
we did very well..Manifest Destiny, Loans from Great Britain, slavery and Indian land confiscation helped. but that's another topic. My argument/question was more geared at this: did all the exponential tech and phony "wealth creation" from EROEI (due to cheap fossil fuels and empire building through fiat creation) happen and occur within the last 100 years? ... I also said this shit wasn't sustainable...in fact of it. and lets be clear on one thing: fuck the FED.
@FrankDrakman: Agreed! Do you think Tesla's new battery plant is a worthy investment, before or after the reset? Thx!
Wrong.
For America’s first 70 years, private entities, and not the federal government, issued paper money. Notes printed by state-chartered banks, which could be exchanged for gold and silver, were the most common form of paper currency in circulation. From the founding of the United States to the passage of the National Banking Act, some 8,000 different entities issued currency, which created an unwieldy money supply and facilitated rampant counterfeiting. By establishing a single national currency, the National Banking Act eliminated the overwhelming variety of paper money circulating throughout the country and created a system of banks chartered by the federal government rather than by the states. The law also assisted the federal government in financing the Civil War.
http://www.history.com/news/8-things-you-may-not-know-about-american-mon...
Oil didn't come from dead dinosaurs. For a million years after the first trees evolved there were no bacteria evolved to break them down after they died, and they lay where they fell until they were covered by other trees in unimaginable numbers. There's a forest fire in your car, unless, of course, you believe that oil is not a biological material.
yes... you missed the general "ASSumption" there on oil I see. my apologies... here is my <sarc> tag nimrod
haha haahhaha...... thank you so much for that laugh!!! I love crazy stupid people!
Grow up... the US was NEVER the libertoonian fantasy you're describing.
LOL!!! The response is to say "grow up." You are SO silly!
Now you're just being a jackass: https://mises.org/sites/default/files/3_1_2_0.pdf
Not again.
Is it Fox ”News”? Or where is this notion of ‘socialism’ coming from? There’s NOTHING socialist about a corporatist state = a fascist state. It’s the opposite. The Government (and the ‘so called political parties’) is owned by private entities. The whole system is owned by the <1%. And yes, they do hand-out small tokens to the bewildered masses (so-called ‘welfare’) but that’s not socialism. Kings of yore did the same, but that did not make them socialist – they were still dictators of monarchies.
Socialism is defined by who owns the means of production. Right now everything is owned by a small private elite = the Government is only a servant of that elite. Yes, they will call it all kinds of names to obfuscate what’s going on. What’s going on is not socialism.
PS. I’m not a socialist but I know what socialism is.
Then you should know that what we have is Crony Socialism, not crony capitalism. Faceplant, Google, Apple, Microsoft, are all very very closely aligned with the government and media. Need a new stadium, hand the bill to the taxpayers, how about downtown revitalization, take tax dollars and give it to no bid developers....
Facism is a form of socialism, it is not right it is left....... that is where we are
Or where is this notion of ‘socialism’ coming from?
Another Saul Alinsky college dropout.
My idea of Fascism is a collusion between government, industry and the military for complete control and suppression of the people, for their mutual benefit. I don't see a trace of socialism there.
if it was government putting a gun at the head of industry, at least from time to time, at least for show, I'd agree with fascism
otherwise, I'd stick with crony capitalism, which has even less to do with socialism then fascism, except where losses are "socialized"
We could call it National Socialism like the Nazis did.
all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
both fascists and nazis made a big show of being fully against liberal capitalism, free markets, financial markets, etc. etc.
they also made a big show of pushing industrialists around. fascism is what happens when people are completely disgusted with liberal market-driven economy policies while at the same time scared of socialism and communism winning, and crave for the strong, paternal hand of a great leader with a party of short-tempered "pragmatists" willing to trash anybody, big or small
you know that you have reached fascism when the dear leader tells you "I instructed businesses to do..." and "I expect workers to put their full weight behind..." ending with "...for the sake of our national interests and of our great people", at which point of course you cheer... or else
I say you're right. Most people do not understand that free bread (EBT) and theater (Kardashian-telenovelas etc.) are there to supress the subcultures
A good one on this topic is Liberal Fascism - J. Goldberg.
You are right. Most Americans take socialism as a four letter word, but don't know what it means.
After WW2 , UK developed a system with the state owning certain essential or strategic businesses in transportation and energy.
As presently practiced in Europe, the state owns very little of the means of production.
While is supplies most health care and education, ensuring for the majority. private alternatives are available for anyone who can pay.
I suppose you would have to define it as a system with the welfare of the working class majority at it's core. Needless to say, it is under constant attack from the mighty.
Communism, however called for state ownership of all significant property, capital and means of production. It didn't work out in it's pure form, neither is pure capitalism working out .and for the same reasons.
The people who rise to the top are power obsessed ruthless assholes.
So in Europe Airbus, rail, the power companies, in many countries the media, and healthcare arent enough for you?
Pray tell, where have you seen pure capitalism working? I cannot think of an example in history of it ever being tried?
In UK all power companies are public companies, and right now are paying me good dividends.
All rail has been privatized for a long time.
True Airbus is 26% French government owned .
Hope I never see pure capitalism tried. It would probably look like Somalia.
'Pure capitalism' is like the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus. It never remotely existed and differed substantially from country to country.
careful, there. pure capitalism, unadultered, without any tempering, means... you can buy or sell everything. including people, even against their will
in other words, it's what you wish for when you have billions, yes, but not necessarily when you have less then that
the future will sure be full of zombies (much more then already is) but not only because of CB:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Crash-Course-Unsustainable-Environment/dp/0470...
And what do you know about Somalia? Probably about as much as you do about capitalism.