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Police Abduct 10 Children From A Family In Kentucky Because Of Their "Off The Grid" Lifestyle
Submitted by Michael Snyder via The End of The American Dream blog,
If the government does not like the way that you are raising your kids, they will come in and grab them at any time without giving any warning whatsoever. Of course this is completely and totally unlawful, but it has been happening all over America. The most recent example of this that has made national headlines is particularly egregious. Joe and Nicole Naugler of Breckinridge County, Kentucky just had their 10 children brutally ripped away from them just because the government does not approve of how they are living their lives and how they are educating their young ones.
Let’s be very clear about this – Joe and Nicole had done nothing to violate the law whatsoever. All of their kids were happy, healthy and very intelligent. But because the control freaks running things in Kentucky got wind of their “off the grid lifestyle”, they have now had all of their children unlawfully abducted from them.
A lot of readers also lead “off the grid” lifestyles similar to what the Nauglers had been enjoying. The Nauglers own 26 acres in a remote area of Breckinridge County, and their family has been described as “extremely happy”. But despite never giving them a single warning or a single indication that anything was ever wrong, Kentucky police raided their home on May 6th. The following is how the raid was described on a website dedicated to this case…
On May 6th, 2015, Breckinridge Co. Sheriff’s officers came to their home, acting on an anonymous tip, and entered their property and home without a warrant and without probable cause. Nicole was at home with the two oldest children, while Joe was away with the others. When the officers left the home, they attempted to block the access road to the family property. Nicole and the two boys got in their car to leave the family property. The got only a short way down the road before the officers pulled Nicole over.
During this stop, sheriffs deputies took their two oldest boys from Nicole’s custody, providing her no justification or documentation to support their action. Nicole was able to contact Joe briefly by telephone, but only for a short period of time, because she needed to use her phone to record the events.
At that point, Nicole had been taken into custody for disorderly conduct (for not passively allowing the Sheriff to take her boys) and resisting arrest. Even though she is 5 months pregnant, she was slammed belly first into the cop car and bruised and scraped on both arms.
And people wonder why there is such an uproar about police brutality in this country…
How in the world can a police officer ever justify treating a pregnant woman like that? The police officer that treated Nicole like that should immediately resign. Talk about an utter disgrace. You do not ever treat a pregnant woman like that.
But this is America, where we are turning a little bit more into Nazi Germany every single day.
You can listen to audio of Nicole’s shocking arrest right here.
When Joe arrived on the scene, the police continued to act like Gestapo thugs…
Joe was able to arrange transportation to meet his wife where the stop had taken place. Joe attempted to get out of the car to speak with the officers and his wife, and to recover the vehicle Nicole had been driving. The Sheriff, with his hand on his sidearm, ordered Joe back into the car. Joe complied with that request. The sheriff informed Joe that he had every intention of making this as difficult as possible for them and that their car would be impounded, despite the fact that Joe was there onsite to recover it.
A friend, who had driven Joe to the location, got out of the car to speak with the Sheriff. She was able to convince the Sheriff to let Joe recover the vehicle. Joe also recovered Nicole’s cell phone, which had been recording audio the entire time.
The Sheriff ordered Joe to turn the remaining eight children over to Breckinridge County Sheriff’s deputies by 10:00 a.m., and threatened him with felony charges if he does not comply.
Joe did comply with the Sheriff’s order, and now their kids have been scattered by CPS among families in four separate counties…
As of now, officials have placed the children with four families in four different counties, and as of Friday morning, the parents had not spoken with them. The four families are families that CPS chose – families the Nauglers don’t know.
Shame on you Kentucky. You are supposed to be better than this.
One of the most disturbing elements of this entire incident is that Child Protective Services never visited the Nauglers a single time and never gave them any indication that anything was wrong. The following comes from Off The Grid News…
Child Protective Services never visited the home, said Ellsworth, who believes the arrests took place because of the parents’ choice of “unschooling” for their children, and because of their simple way of life that some would call backwards. The family’s Facebook page calls it a “back to basics life.” They have a garden and raise animals. Deputies apparently were concerned about whether the children’s needs were being met, but friends say they personally have no concerns — and that the children are blessed to have Joe and Nicole as their parents.
How would you like it if government thugs raided your home and took your children away because they considered your lifestyle to be “backwards”?
What in the world is happening to this country?
Like I said earlier, what happened to the Nauglers is not an isolated incident. These kinds of things are happening all over the nation. For example, just consider the abuse that one homeschooling family received in New Jersey…
Meanwhile, in New Jersey, a WND report highlights how parents were interrogated by a CPS caseworker who questioned Christopher Zimmer and his wife Nicole, “on everything from their son’s homeschool education to questions about vaccines and guns in the house.”
Michelle Marchese aggressively demanded to enter the property after asserting Christopher Zimmer Jr. was not getting a “proper education.” Police subsequently arrived and allowed Marchese to enter the home before conducting a warrantless search.
The Zimmers are now suing the CPS for $60 million in a case before the U.S. District Court in Trenton.
I very much hope that the Zimmers win that case and collect a huge monetary award.
All over the nation, CPS officials are running around acting like little dictators and trampling the law. They need the courts to send them a clear message that this is a nation where the rule of law still applies.
If we do not stand with families like the Nauglers, control freak bureaucrats will continue to harass families that have chosen to live a “basic” lifestyle all over the nation. So let’s stand with them and make this case viral all over the Internet.
And Kentucky, get your act together and send those kids back home. You are supposed to be so much better than this.
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Folks from KY will do just fine during the Great American Flush. You? One of the first turds to go down the drain.
I give you two weeks, tops.
...skin a Buck , run a trot line
Country Boy can survive..
There is some BS in that homeschoolersanonymous link also. "A pond was on the property and the children might fall in." "A deep freeze and generator were observed on the property". It's called living in the country you know. Whoever wrote that piece of s**t is clearly statist. There's more to this story than Cousin Eddie having trouble on the farm, but the state was out to get them and appear to be fabricating justification.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1005296119482265.1073741859.47...
Ten kids living in that shack year round? None of them have any form of id, dad has a criminal record, mom is.. whatever. Ten kids for fucks sake..
How many of you have young children with SSNs? Birth certificates are on file at the County Health Dept. so no need to have them in the house/tent/shack where they can be stolen or in this case, rained on. These type of justifications are laughable and almost certify the state has no case. The father passed some bad checks and drove without registration. Whoa man, take away the children..this guy is ISIS embodied! Here's some news: If you live in Kentucky, chances are you, your neighbors, the mayor, and half the police are guilty of these crimes!
Living in a deplorable shack isn't worthy of breaking up the family. James honestly I agree with you, just saying the state is clearly making things up as they go and have no justification based on the evidence we've seen in the links you provided.
Living in a deplorable shack isn't worthy of breaking up the family.
The point I was making is that these parents are clearly extremely irresponsible people. Pretty obvious they didn't 'choose' an off-the-grid lifestyle - the father was some loser guy passing bad cheques with precious few options for employment and tasked with raising ten kids. Maybe the state was overzealous here, but where there's smoke there's fire and the hyperbole about the state stepping in and 'kidnapping' these kids for no reason is ridiculous.
I keep bringing that 10 number up because who the fuck has ten kids to begin with?? These parents are going to be able to provide a solid education to TEN children simultaneously? Yeah fucking right.
Yes I agree 100%. My point was listing a pond, generator, and deep freeze on the property, and no SSN for pre-teens, makes the state a laughing stock when they likely had good, justifiable reasons for this action.
Well stated. Pond without a fence? Laughable.
Being irresponsible and/or having large numbers of children without the means to pay for a gadget filled lifestyle is not reason to break up families. If it was reason, there would be a quick fix to bring Baltimore back into line.
Speaking of which - were are Al & Jesse? If they don't speak up now, CCA might get some ideas for "cattle rustling" from their plantation.
This whole thing about preventing the serfs from leaving the plantations.
Being irresponsible and/or having large numbers of children without the means to pay for a gadget filled lifestyle is not reason to break up families.
Ignoring the gadget bit (these people were not exatly approaching that threshold), if it's not a reason to it certainly tends to become a reason why.
Unless there is an "imminent threat" to the children, then there is no valid reason to bypass judicial review.
You and I and everyone on zh knows this article is not some sort of nuanced look at the legal merits of the case, so why go there? Totally irrelevant to the point I'm making.
Headline is 'government jackboot thugs steal kids from loving family living alternative homesteading lifestyle' and the content isn't subtle in restating this. If you add the details: parents are losers passing bad cheques, 'homesteading' is one room exposed shack crammed with 10 young children - the story loses a lot of its outrage agency.
I liked you better James before you came out of the closet.
And Michael Snyder didn't even list 10 things wrong with what the police did.
The romanticization of poverty as a "lifestyle choice" is off putting, but this isn't Baltimore with free Section 8 housing and .gov flatscreens and rims on every stoop (and twice the median income). It's po' white trash rural Kentucky. I've seen 30yr old rusted out single wides and depression era clapboard houses that make that hut look about as clean as a surgical theater by comparison. They've obviously put effort into building, maintaining (and publicizing) their hovel. If they had the means I'm sure they'd upgrade some things. In the interim, passing bad checks is what poor people often do between receiving good checks.
The canonization of the victims gets tiring (slightly more so than the "average" 'Murican it's intended to provoke), but in this case it's not any worse than for Eric Garner Freddie Gray, and certainly not on par with Michael Brown.
The police are out of control, and I'm outraged. If I don't express my outrage and work through various channels to challenge the injustice and change the system, then why should anyone care if the police crash my gate with an APC one day? Or if the police rip up my access road on their way to my next door neighbors who have a couple car loads of well educated home schooled kids (many with their own cars)?
If you're using these losers to support your (imo correct) argument about the US governemnt etc. - good luck with that.
Found the reason for the police being involved initially:
The Nauglers have depended upon neighbors' private wells or municipal hookups for their drinking water, but a confrontation on Sunday prompted a criminal summons for Joe Naugler on a charge of menacing.
“(Naugler) was turned down for the water request and asked to leave the property,” the summons read. “He then said to his son ‘get the pistol out of the glove compartment box.'”
“He (Naugler) was acting very erratically,” the complainant said in an interview Friday. “He was calling us names that I have to spell out. I can't even say 'em. And he said ‘don't worry, I know where you live, and I'm gonna be back.'”
http://www.kmov.com/story/29019229/off-grid-couple-faces-hearing-to-rega...
'The allegations were that the family was residing in a tent, mother had given birth in a tent, there is no running water or septic, none of the children were enrolled in school and the father threatened a neighbor with a weapon (asked child to hand him the gun).'
According to investigators, the family lives on a plot of land with one large shed and two tents.
The shed, they observed, housed dogs, goats and chickens. The smaller 'makeshift tents' appeared to be accommodation for the parents and children that 'could provide shade but would not provide enough space for the family.'
'Numerous piles of garbage, broken glass and nails were also scattered about the property,' the report stated, and there was a pond 'that had no barrier around it to prevent the children from entering or falling in.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3074746/Surrounded-garbage-kept-school-neighbors-threatened-knives-s-just-free-range-parenting-claim-parents-blast-authorities-seizing-10-kids.html#ixzz3ZgyKbzUVIf the father was menacing the neighbor, that is an issue for the courts to resolve.
As to the Daily Mail... it reads like wanker snobbery (or freedumb envy having lived in London). They're outraged/jealous that urchins don't use a dozen color coded rubbish bins, and cannot fathom where the waste should go when no one comes to collect it several times a week. I looked at the video and their Facefuck photo albums, and the living areas are neat and clean by outdoor standards. The kitchen was also clean, there weren't food scraps on the pots or sink - and that takes a lot more work without running water and spray cleaner and paper towels. The thing about the putting a fence around the lake was pure bureaucratic fishing for an excuse to make families life difficult. The children and the pets look healthy. In the photos where they aren't playing in the mud, they have clean clothes.
So I don't see any actual evidence that the children were in any danger, and if there is the realistic possibility of some future legal confrontation with the father and the State, then I do see two ugly possibilities 1) the neighbor with he had a dispute is intentionally using CPS to menace the family, or 2) the prosecutor wants insurance that he get a plea out of the defendant and not risk a jury standing in the way of the all important conviction rate.
1) the neighbor with he had a dispute is intentionally using CPS to menace the family
Oh ffs, are you just saying this to be obstinate or do you really hold this out as a likely probability?
Dude, you need to get out among the peeps more. It is a realistic possibility. (Even more so if the father did mention a gun to the kid during a dispute with the neighbor)
If the allegation was an anonymous tip, the chances are over 25% that the report was intentionally false (as determined by CPS's own investigation) Simultaneously, the chances of the charges being substantiated would be less than 5%.
If the allegation came directly from the neighbor, the odds are: (again by CPS, and not any judicial or outside review)
Substantiated 3.5%
Indicated 5.0%
Alternate Response - Victim 11.4%
Alternate Response - Non-victim 4.1%
Unsubstianted 6%
Intentionally False 11.2%
Closed with No Finding 10.6%
Other 6.5%
Unknown 9%
The most recent annual HHS statistical I can find on short notice (see table 2-5)
I meant in the sense that the neighbour obviously doesn't need to be involved conspiratorially to have child services after the parents. 10 kids living in an exposed shack, mom won't let kids be interviewed and dad threatened to kill the neighbour for refusing to hand over water? Pretty much nothing needs to be added to that mix for this to play out as it did.
This happens a lot. It happened to me. A former employee used every govt agency she could think of, including CPS to try to ruin me. OSHA, IRS, Dept of Health, CPS, and more. I ended up winning in the long run, but it was hell to get through. I should have just killed the bitch when I saw it coming before it cost me well into 6 figures in legal fees.
You got it wrong, the father refused to have a car insurance because who the fuck should pick an insurance on their own driving skills? You think that protects anybody? It just creates cheap credit for assholes to speculate with. They are extremely RESPONSIBLE people who tasked themselves with raising 10 children immersed in nature, learning real life skills instead of sucking their teachers=bosses' smelly cocks.
Fuck, this is the time i'm dropping my self-employment and become truly free, like these people! Fuck people like you and your empty slave prejudices!
Also, "who the fuck has 10 kids"? Your great-grandparents? Every farmer's family in the US before 1930? Welcome to the human condition, fucker! If you fuck, you get kids, and if you get 10 of'em, you don't need to mooch off the state when you retire!
Nah, you got it wrong, responsible people abort. That's just WAY more ethical.
My wife is #12 of 12. No abortion where she comes from. Our kids appreciate that. Hoping for 10 or so eventually. It's called natural selection. I appreciate Cole and his ilk terminating their potential competitors. Nothing like voluntary eugenics to strengthen a society.
Amazes me, the number of fascist assholes a thread like this brings out.
I'll bet some of those Baltmore citizens we saw last week working on civic improvements have 10 or more kids. Just might not know their names or where they live.
At least Kentucky dad was with his kids.
Are you what they call a troll, someone bored and trying to get attention?
Very good boom. You are on the right track discussing the concept of JURISDICTION. Just because the STATE claims one commits a "crime" doesn't mean one is a criminal.
"Ten kids for fucks sake.."
For those of you who are biblical, how is their lifestyle any different from Joseph who had 12 sons (and probably just as many daughters), likely lived in "an off-grid shack", grew crops and raised animals?
How is it any different? "OH BUT we live in modern times", you staists will say.
Besides as far as any of us know (unlike Joseph and his sons) these folks have never murdered anyone or stolen anyone else's land and property.
None of them had ID's either.
All they need for ID's is a name the family gives them at birth. Are you trying to claim if the STATE does not give them an ID they don't have an identification?
Wait...no ID?!?!
Well, that settles it. Round 'em all up, throw 'em all in jail. We can't have any animals without tags...er, licenses, er...well, we just CAN'T allow that!
FROM the Kentucky Government website about HOME SCHOOLING:
"The Kentucky constitution establishes the prerogatives of the parents to choose the formal education for the child. Therefore, parents may choose to homeschool their child. KRS Ann. 159.010(2)
"If a parent chooses this option, they take complete responsibility for educating their child .The parent/guardian selects the curriculum and educational materials. There is no state financial assistance for families who choose this option."
Thanks, your link provided what is likely a much more detailed and balanced accounting of what the family is experiencing. The Tyler's need to do a better job of verifying the accuracy and proper contexting of stories they choose to post. Like many of the commentors, compaired to to the old days, the articles are getting more and more bombastic. This site takes more and more winnowing these days.
I'm sorry but if you think those links were a "balanced accounting" you need go back and read the ZH conflicts & full disclosure policy. The homeschooling website was as "balanced" as a John Boehner critique of the most vociferous of the Paul-tards. (They were, like, TOTALLY talking their own book...) That family is not the image that anyone (in their right mind) wants to see put forward as an example of home schooling, especially where the "right" to home schooling only exists at the mercy of the State.
For a site dedicated to home schooling there was no actual discussion of the children's home schooling. The fact is that anyone with a tablet and internet connection today has free access to more information and teaching resources than any of us did growing up. The degree to which that luxury is or isn't taken advantage of is another matter.
Some of the "evidence" cited includes 3rd party posts to family's Facefuck page... If ZH were judged by that standard we might not even have an online hovel to hang out in. I won't be a snob and ask for the author's legal background, but I will insist on reason (particularly from those advocating home schooling)- calling the parents "lazy" simply does not comport with the realities necessary to survive in the woods of rural Kentucky, moreover drug allegations seem a stretch- both in light of LDS information and pictures of family's apparent health (drugs lead to accidents in the woods, very quickly).
The parents are apparently anti-social and kooky. Moreover, they are most certainly not the sharpest knives in the drawer, or they would have a more efficient hovel setup and their own water well (which if they had been more intelligent and sociable with Mormons at the LDS church they probably could have got for free). However, none of that is reason to take the kids away, unlike when an expression of simple honesty meets the mind of a Statist pig--
Like I said - not the shapest knives in the drawer.
A demand for an oath of fealty under duress of threat of imprisonment... it's not 'nuff said (actually) but it's Church day here. Perhaps an enterprising ambulance chaser who observes his Sabbath on Saturday can run with that one.
These kids are loving life in their new foster homes..a/c, cable tv, internet, cell phones, computers, junk food... I'm quite certain they aren't missing that shithole they were living in.
Well, that's what really matters, init?
/s/
Nothing more important in life than having things, right?
Also getting raped every night, but that's okay because it is in the interests of those in power.
When SHTF people living in what some call shitholes will be in a in a much better position than the militarized urban areas. What do you think Jade Helm is all about?
Oy vey! White people having large families is an antisemitic shoah against our people, right, Chaim? Des damb dirty anti semites had better learn to rezpect the Book of the Law, where they are proclaimed to be nothing more than livestock in human form.
@JAMES COLE
Have the 35 morons that dv'd you done their homework before grabbing their cocks with their left hand and mouse with their right hand?
James is right- there is reason to be concerned about the situation. There are CONTRARY points that are disuputed in this post. The least of which is that the agencies and sheriff did attempt to communicate. I was ready to hop in the truck and go defend this family ready to start a fucking war with the useless local DCFS scum but I tend to do research before I pull the trigger.
Perhaps all the info was not out yet but shame on you Mke Snyder for not doing your homework.
Do I understand correctly that if your standard of living is approximately equal to that of your average occupied Palestinian, it is such a horror to our government that it warrants taking your children away, or, alternatively, in the case of actual Palestinians whose homes have been bombed or bulldozed to the point of being an "off-grid tent", it is such a horror to our government that it warrants blowing up their children with hellfire missiles? Have I finally figured out the essence of this carnival ride we're trapped on?
According to those links, it is child abuse to have a pond without a fence around it. Presumably these rules only apply to white families, because I'm pretty sure in any other case the local news would be running some feel-good segment about how the benevolent government has rushed in to provide free food, shelter, and obama phones for a struggling single baby-mama.
Kudos for the statement vaft. I have to question that shit too.Most DCFS agents are Black..kinda a conflict of interests here no? Totally agree with the bullshit "fence around their pond" shit, but their "house" did involk valid concerns for safety. No running water?
The point here is if others disagree that there are concerns for the children in a lifestyle as this then that is OK. What is on the table here is pure FREEDOM as that anything goes...including housing kids in a dwelling that is like ...poverty.
James Cole,
No matter what the real living situation is, there is an awful lot of room between removing kids from their families, or ignoring them completely.
There is a WHOLE lot of fucking middle ground. The kids can be checked on AND still remain with their siblings and mom and dad.
I remember reading some UK article about a kid being removed from his parents because he was fat. He wasn't near-death-fat. He was just normal fat. He was a few years away from puberty, where he will most likely slim down naturally anyway. But instead of involving the family in a softball league or a nature walk or whatever, they went straight to the nuclear option of kidnap the child. In the process, making sure he understands that it's all his fault he can't see mommy and daddy anymore because he's some kind of fat freak. Family destroyed. All his fault.
Mmmm, that's gonna be one mentally healthy young adult. I'm sure!
Middle ground. Respect the family. Provide the tools. Monitor the health of the kids. Easy AND ethical.
Oh. And 10 kids living in poverty is a tragedy? The house my mom grew up in had no indoor bathroom until she was eight years old. (And my mom isn't even that old!) But their little farmhouse was clean and adorable. The harvests were bountiful, and the river was full of fish, crabs and clams. The kids all grew up, worked their way through college or trade school and turned out pretty great. (My uncle was invited to join mensa at least 3 times. But he thought it was silly.) The kids didn't feel poor. They knew they had more than other kids around. And they talk about their childhood fondly. I'm just saying, providing a kid with expensive things, doesn't necessarily make him more happy or healthy.
My generation (the grand-kids) seem waaaay more screwed up, and we all had Nintendos by 12 and cars at 16.
A few things you seemed to have missed up the thread:
- mom refused to allow children to be interviewed (contributing to her arrest)
- dad threatened to kill neighbour for their refusal to share neighbours well water (genesis of police involvement)
- family lives in a one room exposed shack in rural kentucky, a contrast to your story of "harvests were bountiful, and the river was full of fish, crabs and clams."
- they are new to 'living off the grid' - chances they had been 'living off the government' up to that point? 99%? 100%?
Either you were there, or you believe everything the police and media tell you. I wonder what my grandparents or great-grandparents would have done or said to any armed officer that came to take their children. Hard to imagine!
The Nauglers own 26 acres, and their family has been described as “extremely happy”. But despite never giving them a single warning, Kentucky police raided their home without a warrant, took the children and arrested the parents.
There is a better way to handle this! I still think it is important to respect the family. Of the "crimes" you listed I did not see anyone accuse the parents of sexual, mental or physical abuse. Those would be the only reasons I would definitely agree with you about removing children by force from their parents.
What is the plan now? 10 kids in foster care? Separated from their siblings, exposed to strangers that will receive government checks to have the traumatized children in their home. Vaccinated, sent to a common core school and a liberal shrink.
I just can't see this being best for the kids, the taxpayers or a freedom loving society. There is still a lot of middle ground here.
Either you were there, or you believe everything the police and media tell you.
No, there's an audio recording nicole naugler herself posted which includes all that information (including cop explaining the accusation of joe stealing water from the neighbour and asking a kid to grab his gun leading to child services being involved). The reason we know they lived in a exposed shack is because, again, the nauglers themselves have posted photos of it taken by a relative or something.
It is actually you who is believing uncritically what the media is telling you.
I think you have committed to defending the police and child services on this matter so vehemently that you are now unable to acknowledge any other point of view without it feeling like a concession to people you dislike.
You are ignoring the heart of the posts here, that there is middle ground where the kids can receive support and stay together with their parents.
Unless you really think the kids are better off kidnapped, vaccinated, and prodded by enthusiastic-gay-agenda liberal therapists. You think they are better off separated from their siblings, divided up and placed in foster homes, where complete strangers get government checks to house them... not love them. You want them enrolled in a crappy common core school, where when they act up they will be prescribed some really good SSRIs.
Of course you don't believe that is best for the kids! Or the taxpayers! Or a freedom loving society!
There are so many other ways to handle this where the family can stay together, and the father can be punished for stealing water and mentioning a gun to a neighbor.
Middle ground. Respect the family. Provide the tools. Monitor the health of the kids.
Unless you actually believe the things you are posting. In which case you should think it all through to the conclusion. If 10 is too many, how many kids should parents be able to have before they are forcibly sterilized? Is it based on the parent's income? What minimum annual income should a couple have before they are permitted to have a child? A second child? A third? Should these low income illegally-pregnant women be incarcerated or be forced into abortions? And what will the name of the new government agency be that is now responsible for making sure every pond and puddle are properly fenced for safety?
I bet we can agree that, that proposed bit of "utopia" is not what you actually want at all.
You are ignoring the heart of the posts here, that there is middle ground where the kids can receive support and stay together with their parents.
Yes, this is a separate point. My point is that the parents are extremely irresponsible and brought this mess on themselves. If they had their own water supply, a (at least more) proper living space, weren't threatening neighbours etc. none of this 'kidnapping' would have happened. In the audio recording the cop basically begs nicole to let CPS talk to the kids otherwise it was highly likely the children would be removed. She screams a whole lot about her rights and then the inevitable happens.
It's tragic for the kids, but it's the parents who are the problem. It's also the parents responsibilty now to get their shit together and they will be reunited with their kids. The situation is the parents are losers, had way too many kids and are now blaming their stupidity on the government. No, get your shit together AND THEN complain about the government. If you're passing bad cheques and threatening neighbours while having young children live in an exposed shack during kentucky winter YOU are the problem.
@James Cole.
You are defending Kentucky you asshat. BTW. You picked two websites that are overtly hostile to homeschooling.
ZH posted an entry from a blog that is overtly hostile to any form of govt. Funny that ZHers feel obligated to take a side in a situation they really know nothing about. We should all assume Michael Snyder has all the facts and has presented them in an objective manner. Anything else we read is a lie. Michael Snyder says the children were abducted illegally because of off-grid living. What more could we possibly care to know? And if you haven't been a ZH member for (insert arbitrary number of weeks), you're an idiot and what you say is irrelevant.
note: there is nothing wrong with being overtly hostile toward .gov, but think for yourselves sometimes
Good point, one needs to be careful when reading such articles. However, the articles supporting KY's jurisdictional stand on the topic is based on a perspective neglecting specifics in the law. I, for one, believe the STATE will do everything possible to trap us into their jurisdiction in order to claim control over every move we make. Most of the people writing articles concerning this family and other related topics are clueless when it comes to the specifics in the law. Most everything I am reading is based on people's emotions, perceptions and norms. The law is based on jurisdiction. It seems to me the family is attempting not to get trapped into a jurisdictional standing the STATE demands they conform to.
Why the hell does a family need to contact the state as to what they are teaching their children.? Do you know why? Because the STATE declares jurisdiction over the children with numbers and other contractural applications. The STATE believes they are the primary owner of the children. If the articles don't wish to discuss the concept of jurisdiction, then all we are getting are the opinions of those who fail to know the law.
I find it an insult to my intelligence the STATE demands we fill out a form every year telling them who we are and everything we own and where all assets are located.
What happened? A person that doesn't like the family made an anonymous tip that children were abused. So this "testimony" is treated as real evidence and the children are taken away because the mother refuses to again comply with demands by the state to see her children. Is there any chance to hold people libel for anonymous tips? No, so they should mean jack squat. Any retard should be able to see this but the sheriff doesn't for some reason and makes the bogus comparison to a mother calling in her husband is beating her kids.
What this is about is about a stupid pile of manure sheriff who is a total liar when he says it isn't personal for him too. This lady refused to kiss his boot a seond time so he made sure her kids were taken away. The police state isn't just in Baltimore. No real surprise.
I have only one question. Were they on public assistance in any way??? If they were then they are wards of the state, but if they did not accept any assistance then the state can suck a fat one. :P
With you James.. ..55 million abortions for convenience sake is OKAY but having ten kids is somehow a WTF moment.. people like YOU are the problem . the wthat the fuck moment .. smug self satisfied head up your ass bastard.
I read those links. I'm pretty sure that if every law enforcement agency in the world acted the same way that one did, they'd have to take away 50-60% of the children who live in the south. The "complaints" are bullshit. "piles of garbage" on property? That's most of the south. "broken glass" on ground of property? lol, most of the south. "Tent or shack living"?? HAH, most of the south. on and on and on.... the claims are bullshit. Whether or not it was about homeschooling proper, it's still bullshit.
nowadays, having a child is like raising a government hostage. they teach them to snitch on their parents, how to have a homosexual relationship and worship science as their god (even though much of it is flat out wrong).
I'm happier than ever that I never had one.
the bad part is the eugenicists also love it.
If thye were worshipping science, things might be better. However as it is, they are worshipping the delcarations of the grand priests of the state.
They only worship the "science" that fits their agenda. All other science is discounted as fairytales. Smorgasbord-style.
exactly, General. like global warming and evolution. it's true that animals evolve, but ONLY WITHIN THEIR SPECIES. monkeys don't become humans and zebras don't become horses.
The truth is mostly beyond human intelligence. Worshipping science of human scientists is like worshipping marble or some other stupid worthless thing.
Worship science? Are kids allowed to talk about or even ask about the connection between evolutionary theory and racial characteristics and traits in school? They are taught pseudoscience that serves the agenda and nothing else.
Yes, but not in US schools, where they have been assimilated by the Zi'Borg Collective.
I recommend having children. The trick is that you also have to teach them to shoot an AR-15.
"The trick is that you also have to teach them to shoot an AR-15."
And not on behalf of the US government or the Apartiedship of Israel either.
What's the trick? That's pretty standard isn't it?
"Are you men from the bank? Dad says I'm to shoot men from the bank!"
Sort of like Red China in the 70's.
When I was young I thought that it would never happen but then as I age I realize that there are plenty of useful idiots that fight to keep the chains on us and tightened as time goes on. Go read some of the crap from the sites that James provided us.
Truly ignorant people. That's the problem too. Useful idiots that enable this system of control and repression.
I truly hope that an economic collapse befalls us. This nation needs an enema in the worst possible way.
A collapse would be good. We're like a drunk that just won the lottery. No chance of hitting bottom until the mother of all hangovers and all accounts read zero.
Still puzzled why people think they own their children after giving them away at birth.
AGAIN: YOU. DON'T. OWN. YOUR. CHILDREN.
It was a condition of the marriage contract you made when you married the State (silly you, did you think you "married" your spouse?) that any stock issued from the corporation was LEGALLY the property of the State.
Ignorance is no excuse:
http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/secularmarriage.shtml
Look up the phrases "Parens Patriae" and "In Loco Parentis." Just like your guns, your car, your house, YOUR BODY, you are simply custodian for the STATE of all these things, which THEY OWN, WITH YOUR CONSENT (if not explicit knowledge).
And this goes for anyone that signed a "marriage license." If the preacher/officiant is part of a 501C(3) corporation, they are an AGENT OF THE STATE.
There is NO separation of church and State. The State IS the church. And remember Romans 13: "Render unto Caesar that which was made by Caesar, Render unto the Lord that which was made by the Lord." Little hint: Caesar did not CREATE marriage.
Anyway. If these kids were not actual State property (HIGHLY UNLIKELY), this -is- an outrage. If they were, it's merely sad and tragic- but is simply another example of KNOW THE RULES OF THE GAME: don't complain if you never win the Monopoly game by playing Checkers.
FFS,STOP giving away your children to the State at birth (you know, by INFORMING on them to the State, Mothers, by not CLAIMING YOUR CHILDREN).
STOP MARRYING THE STATE! That goes for "Commoner Law marriage" as well. Find a pastor/preacher/officiant that has not taken Caesar's coin to be Caesar's agent. Or just do what used to be done: declare yourselves wedded in sight of family and friends.
This isn't tinfoil hattery, conspiracy theory patriot-ism whack jobbery. It's basic reading contracts for comprehension. Which I guess is not important to people any more.
This is a powerful idea that I'm going to do my own little part in nurturing. Thanks.
Watch out now! I'm getting WEAVER FEVER!!
I freelance over th? internet and earn about 80-85$ an hour. I was without a job for 7 months but last month my paycheck with big fat bonus was $15000 just working on my computer from my home for 5-6 hours. Here's what i have been doing... www.jobs-review.com
Having your dog lick peanut butter out of your ass.in from of your computer cam is no way to make a living sweetheart....
"They need the courts to send them a clear message that this is a nation where the rule of law still applies." Rule of Law died long ago in the US.
Family was only preparing for what is going to be the true new normal.
Re... eventually encountering a Waco moment...
This underscores the importance of tightly knit communities, where real aid comes timely and in whatever form it is required, to cope with unlawful trespassing by armed intruders -- regardless of the clothes and paraphenelia they wear.
Stand your ground dammit! / Or is the appropriate response to buy more G&A, but not actually use it? / sarc
the article said that CPS never visited - by the way, you are not obligated to allow CPS on your property -
Rand Paul is a liberty-minded senator from KY - thinking about a presidential run - perhaps this would be something for him to comment - any word from him on this situation?
NO....and there won't be because Rand Paul is a tool for the state just like the rest.
None of you have representation in the halls of power. Unless you are George Soros or the Koch Brothers.
Edit...dupe.
this is when citizens need to write down the name and badge number of every jackboots thug that participates, and extract revenge on their entire families. you fuck with my family I will destroy yours.
A Waco incident is exactly what they're hoping for- that's why these cases of illegal child abduction by the state are increasing. They want to show the country how they will protect us from these 'scary, evil self-sufficient types' who offend us with their inability to surrender to the state's lofty socialist ideals (like limiting their reproduction, putting their kids in a gov't school and despising the 2nd Amendment). Retaliatory violence only fortifies their resolve- we need to slowly drain their resolve with lawsuits every time these incidents occur.
Keep up with the Gestapo States of Ameruca here.
www.informationliberation.com
It's a bad idea to think about using guns against people that way. Instead, it's better work within the system by arguing everything to a detailed conclusion with multiple complaints and appeals at the local appeal and via the courts. If everyone were to make well-reasoned arguments at every stage of the process, some positive progress could be made. The real problem is that many petty government bosses do not understand rules-based thinking and because they don't they cannot abide our various Constitutional parameters. Rules obedience and rules-based thinking are not the same thing. Mere obedience does not allow for context and liberty-oriented rules. But rule-based thinking does. Read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Personal-Leadership-Training-Guide-Rules-Based/dp/1511494484/
Gubmint: ctrl-alt-del
Progressive liberal fukn democrap: "gimmee ur kids cuz i know how to raise them beter than u. Just like ur money"
Nazi trash deserve the death penalty. COME ON GOOD COPS, ARREST THESE SCUM...
I almost got into it with a Jirene Lt Colonel or Colonel. I told him he was working for Obola and a corrupt police state. He sang the Marine song. Total retard.
Where do the so-called Oath Keepers (specifically the Oath Keepers who are active duty law enforcement) have to say on this subject?
Crickets chirping.
Same as all other clubs and orgs: at a fund raiser or membership expansion drive.
ACLU? "Jessie Sharpton"? MSNBC's Rachel Madow? [crickets]
Sorry, but Whiteys in the "Bottom 20 Percentile" don't count, it seems, when it comes to civil rights.
they know nothink!
Oxymoron.
The "good cops" are the watchmen, who refuse to watch the watchmen, which is why all the watchmen have carte blanche.
They are supposed to be the check and balance and they have failed. They have failed their community, their neighbors, and their nation.
No such thing as a good cop.
Off the grid means ready for anything. They weren't. If they had been, the pigs would've been met by a Bundy Ranch-esque posse. Any agent of the state who participated in the raid is an enemy of freedom and should be dealt with accordingly
Patience grasshopper.
http://cheezburger.com/3057568512
Patience grasshopper.
"Patience" means never.
"Patients" means a jew doctor just wrote a prescription to a goy "patient" for a drug that they didn't need, which will eventually caused a problem/or DEATH that a team of jew lawyers will have a multi million dollar class action lawsuit going against and collect 30% from the poor bereaved family members).
Because ~ you know, they're all 'home schooled' doctors & lawyers & all that... (You know, the ones who DON'T cut the heirarchy of becoming hedge fund managers, & FED CHAIRS because they only got into Duke & Syracuse instead of Cornell & MIT)
Get it right dude.T
they would not go against the "poor bereaved family members" but the drug companies and/or the doctor whom prescribed what the drug companies told them was safe. Ergo, the drug companies pay pennies on the dollar for the profits they earn. Now THAT is a total scam. The chief problem is the US FDA that should have it's members hung on lamp posts for approving bullshit drugs from trials while collecting millions of tax dollars for "keeping us safe".
I've forgotten. Is the protocol for belt-sander, then blowtorch, or blowtorch first?!?
Arrest the oligarchs. Their child catchers got em.
deleted
Black people are concerned how cops treat them? Some nigger broke his own neck and it started riots.
I bet you'd be fun as hell to donkey punch.
I don't go to the trailer park so you'll never find out.
You are white trash wherever you abide.....
I want to curb stomp him.
People will believe what they want to believe unfortunately.
Norwegian state has a dedicated institution for kidnaping kids from families: Barnevernet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Welfare_Services_%28Norway%29
They say "to ensure that children and young people who live in conditions that can harm their health and development are given the necessary help and care at the right time" and "to help children and young people have a safe childhood"
fucked up maybe in this case, but have youse seen that Alaska "bush" family show.
first of all - that has to be mostly bullshit given how little they seem to know about... everything...
but second, jesus, those kids maybe *should* have been taken away.
That's why I am choosing to pursue my off-the-grid lifestyle in another country.
The US is quickly circling the drain...
Brooklyn is another country?
No. Brooklyn is another dimension.
Yes, it is The Kingdom Of The Roach.
Brooklyn is a piece of crap where people that can't afford to live in Manhattan go.
brooklyn style pizza is where it's at!
Damn good pizza. Get one everytime I visit on business.
Clever monkeys...
LatAm. 14 acres with two houses, barn, greenhouse, well, solar on all. And a cleverly hidden safe with plenty of bullion and the means to protect it.
Enjoy the reset. I will.
Imagine what this nation is going to be like when the Great American Enema occurs?
I predict that 35-50% of all consumers get flushed, which is 100-150 million people.
What do others here think? I don't think that is too high actually. How many people have the skills or preperation to survive a dollar collapse, with rolling blackouts, no means to purchase, and the "just in time" supply chain ground to a halt.
Consumers get smacked, and smacked badly. Citizens, those that care about America (the concept, not .gov and its hundreds of millions of slaves) will take a 15-20% hit, mostly by marauding consumers, and "all talk, no action" lack of preperation.
Opinions please.
Dont hold ur breath
Look at the rising Statehouse nullification chatter. Look @ US citizen firearm and ammo purchases. Look at the Texas militia response to Jade Helm. Look at what occurred @ the Bundy ranch. Look at the spike in cop killings. It has started, and it is escalating. Recheck your 'Santa's list', we're all going to have our shot at justice. Has your local LEO, politician, and bankster been naughty or nice?
Keep the family together .... during the investigation .... with proper supervision .... put them up at a luxury hotel with room service and a pool .... innocent until proven guilty .... cheap, arrogant bastards .... and provide an attorney for each kid and parent !
Having been a law abiding citizen all of my life, I find it hard to reconcile my feelings over this travesty. My first thought is that if it was my kids or grandkids, all the bureaucrats and LEOs involved would be systematically stalked and eliminated one by one. But maybe it would be better if we compiled a list like the government does on "terrorists" and upon the great reset, just "hang em high" in the public square.
You could easily start a list of your local county cops or sheriff's deputies, their addresses and patrol car numbers. Would not be hard at all. With a little effort you could also identify wives and children (who I believe would also be fair game), and whether they are the property owners (not mobile) or renters (possibly mobile).
Let them know ahead of time that they are being watched and that they should think about their families and being able to go home at night before mistreating us tax serfs.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?
Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!
If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
-Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I read the Gulag Archipeligo years ago when I worked in a machine shop on a cnc lathe.
The citizenry needs to note all information on any LEO that operates outside the Constitution.so some after hours payback can be had. After all, there is no worse criminal than one with a badge and gun.
These lists are surely being compiled and certainly will surface
As I've said before... Everyone needs to keep an Excel and Word list of the good and bad deeds of civil servants and people in positions of power and influence. Be sure to print a hard copy, with periodic updates --- in case computers become 'impractical' to use.
Think "Nuremberg Trials". Or something like that.
Fat fukn chance
..........
He should kill cops when they took his children. Period.
it's a self defense
Yeah, but then you get mowed down in front of your kids and the universal excuse of "he was reaching for something" excuse gets used.
The best thing was the recording of this event. SMART WIFE.
Get the names.of.these pigs and all other authorities involved and.publish them, so we the people can look them up and go piss their flowerbeds and shit their front porches.
www.publicdata.com
Off government message - need to be assimilated.
Maybe I'll get junked for this, but if these people are going to the US court system to sue for damages, then they're NOT as 'OFF THE GRID' as they're portrayed to be. Just sayin'
I'll get junked for this, but if these people are going to the US court system to sue for damages, then they're NOT as 'OFF THE GRID' as they're portrayed to be. Just sayin'
Fixed it. (No Maybe about it)
Alright. I'll wave a white flag here because surely I was misunderstood. I certainly empathize with these folks, but OTOH, fuck the US court system because it's part of the same problem.
You have redeemed yourself.
You got junked because you demonstrated a lack of any discernable intelligence.
So basically, my 'lack of any discernable intelligence', was wholly the product of not giving a flying hoot about the United States Court system, its judges, prosecutors, & advocates, (as well as the penalties & prosecutions thereof & therein that get spat out by that false & corrupt pillar of democracy)
To that, all I have to say is - FREE CORZINE!
The grid implies public utilities, also known as life support. The law system has absolutely nothing to do with the grid, which implies the elctricity grid, and by derivation all other public utilities. These people are one of the extremely rare families in america and the rest of the "developed" world living without life support, using their own strength. The state, meanwhile, feels the need to come and deliver terror, anguish and desperation upon them, for no good reason at all.
America is now a scum country in which good people are the absolute minority. Self-righteousness is a deadly poison.
The good news is that the government can't put people like this in prison. There is simply no room in the prison system today because it is overcrowded with bankers serving hard time.
deleted due to misreading....
They have a cell phone that records and a facebook page. Plenty of "grid" there for the big bad wolf to watch them with.
shmuck
The people in the article are not the ones suing, they are still in process. Another family is suing for 60 mil.
Well, see, now THAT makes sense... I guess it's kinda like this then...
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/activists-raised-dollar60000-for-tamir-...
Where some Cleveland jew activist lawyers, Kucharski & Malik, got in there, 'pro bono', & frontran a fundraising campaign...
http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/news/local/attorney-david-malik-steps...
Collected some $30,000 in their 'LEGAL FEES', meanwhile... ZERO of any of the other money raised has gone to the victims families...
Is this the kind of LAW/JEWRISPRUDENCE that we're talking about?
forcibly put back on the grid - if they took your kids away, you'd do the same
Killing the children at Waco .... was child abuse .... killing the parents was child abuse .... fuck Bill Clinton and Janet Reno and Eric Holder and Hillary Clinton .... worst scum on earth .... yes, they are compassionate, caring socialists !
"Killing... was child abuse..."? Not True!
They were Murdered, no?
Is crime only what the State decrees? Is there a higher power as per the Declaration of Independence.
"that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
Why do so many still think they are The People (Capitalized)?
You claim the (en)title(ment) of CITIZEN. It is a SEPARATE class entirely.
First 13 Amendments of the CONstitution do NOT apply to you. If you can logically refute this, have at it.
"The people" is a euphemism for the aristocracy, their praetorian guard, and their help, which is .gov and connected merchants.
Everyone else, that'd be us, only counts as 3/5th of a man.
Yes, and more than that. It is a "word of art" (or "weasel word" as Scott Adams would say) that allows assumption to replace critical thought on the part of the underclass.
Nobody ever asks the right questions: "Who are The People as specified in the Constitution?" "Are citizens "The People?" "If yes, then why not change every instance of 'The People' to 'The Citizens?'".
This ignorance is furthered in no small part because we are brought up having the whole thing forcefully indoctrinated. These "facts" are front-loaded into our highly plastic minds in Hitler Youth Camps...er, the Public Fool System...er, well..."Government Education Centers."
It honestly seems like humans are hard-wired genetically for Stockholm Syndrome. What else could account for the vast majority of history?
We love our captors, our transgressors, our predators; we believe (like other cattle), that just because we are given the barest sustenance (to allow us to keep the wheels of commerce turning) by those predators, and not all simply harvested at once, that we are the best-loved children. That they LOVE us. That all of this is all being done for us.
It is. In the same way a stockyard owner is doing it all for the cows. It is the result of having the sociopaths herding the human beings. The former sub-species has an underdeveloped frontal lobe, incapable of feeling those emotions such as compassion, empathy, and guilt.
Human beings, because they are incapable of thinking like a sociopath does, are at a fundamental disadvantage. Which is why (up to this point) the 3% are winning.
The system has developed to be infinitely more sophisticated, elegant and efficient over the past three millennia. The OwnerLords realized, through trial and error, that creating the illusion that the slaves had a say (Magna Carta), and finally (cue belly laughter) that they were IN CHARGE (CONstitution, Democide) would lead to a much easier administration of the plantation. No more messy slave revolts. The wheels of the system turn smoothly. The Farm Animals could be harvested with no fuss or muss.
The problem cannot be solved with the same level of thinking (or, sadly, NON-thinking/slumber) that led us here. The same tired tropes (Republicanism, Democide, Communism, Socialism, Collectivism, etc.) will only lead to the same genocidal cul-de-sacs we have been crammed into before.
Break out the jackhammers, sledges, and pickaxes, and make a new road.
As I've mentioned before....these are the types of events that make ordinary, peaceful men SNAP. This is blatant kidnapping by the state, for the express purpose of 'sending a message' to the peasantry, that self-reliance and disconnection from the matrix will be met with all manner of vile retribution. Submit or have your children ripped from your life.
Likewise, this is further proof that your average sheriff dept has become nothing more than a hired band of mercs for TPTB. Until these slithering vipers (at all levels involved) are met with physical repercussions for their REPEATED violations of our lives, they will NOT STOP.
Wh at does TPTB stand for?
the powers that be