This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
The Average Age Of A Minimum Wage Worker In America Is 36
Submitted by Michael Snyder via The Economic Collapse blog,
Did you know that 89 percent of all minimum wage workers in the United States are not teens? At this point, the average age of a minimum wage worker in this country is 36, and 56 percent of them are women. Millions upon millions of Americans are working as hard as they can (often that means two or three jobs), and yet despite all of their hard work they still find themselves mired in poverty. One of the big reasons for this is that we have created two classes of workers in the United States.
“Full-time workers” are entitled to an array of benefits and protections by law that “part-time workers” do not get. And thanks to perverse incentives contained in Obamacare and other ridiculous laws, we have motivated employers to move as many workers from the “full-time” category to the “part-time” category as possible. It may be hard to believe, but right now only 44 percent of all U.S. adults are employed for 30 or more hours each week. But to get any kind of a job at all is a real challenge in many parts of the country today. As you read this article, there are more than 100 million working age Americans that are not employed in any capacity. And according to John Williams of shadowstats.com, if the federal government was actually using honest numbers the unemployment rate would be sitting at 23 percent. That is not an “employment recovery” – that is a national crisis.
The following infographic comes from the Economic Policy Institute. I certainly do not agree with a lot of the things that the Economic Policy Institute stands for, but I think that these numbers do accurately reflect what “part-time America” looks like today…
So what is the solution to this problem?
Most Democrats believe that raising the minimum wage would fix this. But as Zero Hedge has pointed out, it isn’t quite that simple…
Last week, we noted that Democratic lawmakers in the US are pushing for what they call “$12 by ’20” which, as the name implies, is an effort to raise the minimum wage to $12/hour over the course of the next five years. Republicans argue that if Democrats got their wish and the pay floor were increased by nearly 70%, it would do more harm than good for low-income Americans as the number of jobs that would be lost as a result of employers cutting back in the face of dramatically higher labor costs would offset the benefit that accrues to the workers who are lucky enough to keep their jobs.
Yes, raising the minimum wage would make life better for many minimum wage workers in America. But a large number of them would also lose their jobs completely, and a lot of small businesses would deeply suffer financially.
Ideally, what we would love to see happen is for the U.S. economy to be producing so many good jobs that the only people that are looking for entry-level part-time jobs would be teens, people just starting out in the workforce, etc. Back when I was a teen, I remember walking into a McDonald’s and getting hired on the spot because they were in dire need of workers. Sadly, those days are long, long gone.
Over the past several decades, millions of good paying American jobs have been shipped overseas, and millions more have been lost to advancing technology. And as I wrote about the other day, Barack Obama is deeply betraying American workers by working on a global economic treaty that would destroy millions more good paying jobs.
Thanks to the foolishness of our politicians, there is now intense competition even for minimum wage jobs at this point.
We keep hearing about an “employment recovery”, but it is a giant lie. Posted below is a chart of the civilian employment to population ratio. As you can see, the percentage of the working age population that is actually employed is much, much lower than it used to be…
In recent months, we have seen the employment-population ratio move slightly higher. But can this be called “an employment recovery”? Of course not. We are still way, way below the level that we were at just prior to the last recession, and now the next recession is just about upon us.
Meanwhile, the quality of our jobs continues to decline as more Americans are being pushed into “part-time work” with each passing year.
Since February of 2008, the size of the U.S. population has grown by 16.8 million people. But during that same time frame, the number of full-time jobs in this country has actually decreased.
And at this point, the majority of American workers simply do not make enough money to support a middle class family. The following income numbers come directly from the Social Security Administration…
-39 percent of American workers make less than $20,000 a year.
-52 percent of American workers make less than $30,000 a year.
-63 percent of American workers make less than $40,000 a year.
-72 percent of American workers make less than $50,000 a year.
Are you starting to see why I am so fired up about all of this?
We have developed a business culture in this country which does not care about workers. In business schools all over America, future executives are taught that a corporation only has one goal – to maximize wealth for the shareholders. Taking care of those that are part of your team is treated as an afterthought at best.
As corporations have gotten bigger, they have shown less and less concern for those that work for them. These days, employees are generally regarded as “expensive liabilities” that are to be discarded the moment that their usefulness has come to an end. And news of layoffs is often rewarded by Wall Street by a surge in the stock prices of the companies making those layoffs.
In the old days, more businesses in America were family-owned, and employees were often regarded as almost “part of the family”. Unfortunately, those days have disappeared forever.
Now, employees are treated like scum by many big companies, and if they don’t like how they are being treated they are told that they can leave. For example, just consider what was going on at a security company down in Florida…
Jose Molero worked as a site inspector for the company, which provides security for neighborhoods and companies across the country, for more than a year.
Molero says when he went to the Kensington Golf and Country Club guardhouse, he found wooden paddles on a desk, some with staff names on them and one reading “for staff discipline.”
He says there was also what is called a “Wall of Shame,” where the supervisor points out and posts reports that contain grammatical errors.
When Molero complained about these things to his district manager, he was told that if anyone was offended “maybe they shouldn’t work here”…
Molero contacted his operations manager, who told him to speak with the district manager. He says the district manager sent him an email response that said, “if that hurts their feelings then maybe they shouldn’t work here.”
Do you have a similar horror story to share?
Most of us do.
The U.S. economy is absolutely dominated by cold, heartless corporations that have no interest in listening to the little guy. If they could find a way to do it, many of them would operate with no low-level employees at all. And as technology continues to advance, they will replace as many of us as they can with robots, drones, machines and computers.
I’ll be honest with you – the future for workers in America looks really bleak. The competition for any jobs that can’t be shipped overseas or replaced by technology is going to become even more heated. This means that the middle class is going to get even smaller, the number of Americans dependent on the government is going to continue to explode, and the disparity between the wealthy and the poor is going to become even greater.
So what is the solution to this giant mess?
»
- 31188 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Apocalypse. Now.
"You're an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks. To collect a bill." Please burn this phrase into your mind, as it is the perfect and only response when the progresso-fascists come to your door. If you can't back it up, then never mind.
De Opresso Liber, bitchez
Bring on the Zombie Hordes, this place needs a good cleansing, only way to [re]start the US.
Just my 2c
You are nothing more than the sum total of the decisions you've made in your life. If you are flipping burgers at 50, blame yourself, not the ZWO hasbara yids flying drones off conspiracy island
While there is more than a little truth to your statment, there are pleny of people that wound up flipping burgers due to shortsighted and boneheaded/insane policy decisions that destroyed their livelihood.
One group I'm acutely familiar with is those involved in virtually all industries connected to used cars -- repair, recycling, parts sales, etc -- many of those had perfectly workable jobs, and cash for clunkers totally destroyed the ecosystem they earned their living from, and totally fucked over the lower classes that depended on inexpensive used cars as well. GM convinces congress to believe in the broken window fallacy, and poof, a few years later there's another few million people on unemployment (or worse, since many of these were owner-run small businesses.)
There is plenty of blame to go all around, and it's not just the guy in the mirror.
Minimum wage with the maximum inflation.
The ones who are younger are either...
A) Selling Drugs
B) Getting Edumacated so they can get a minimum wage job...
C) Are smarter than a 5th grader...
"The U.S. economy is absolutely dominated by cold, heartless corporations that have no interest in listening to the little guy. If they could find a way to do it, many of them would operate with no low-level employees at all. And as technology continues to advance, they will replace as many of us as they can with robots, drones, machines and computers."
"The U.S. economy is absolutely dominated by cold, heartless employees that have no interest in creating value for their employer. If they could find a way to do it, many of them would stay home and do no work at all. And as progressivism continues to advance, they will replace as many of their paychecks as they can with EBT Cards."
It takes two to tango...
[Don't blame 'heartless' corporations; blame the 'brainless' government who encourages them to move jobs and earnings overseas...]
You forgot about the Psychopathic Employers...
Human Capital.
To be used at will to perform tasks until no longer economical, then discarded.
You mean I cannot blame government, that took away my opportunities with unlimited rules and regulations?
I cannot blame the government for taking more of my income to support others?
I cannot blame government for fueling speculative markets that that removed basic fundamental economic outcomes?
I think I'll blame you for being so damn naive.
I think what he's saying is that you can blame government all you want as long as you leave the jews out of it.
So I guess it's a really, really good thing that jews tend to shy away from getting themselves involved with, & basically have nothing to do with The Fed, Wall St, political activism, MSM, & the legal system.
I was amazed when I first started working how many people were ripping me off! (banks mainly)
I was a target for anyone who wanted to give me a credit card or a no money down loan.
I warned my kids what to be careful of. (My parents used cash and avoided many of the pit falls, but I was forced to use direct deposit)
Now that I make real money the banks kiss my ass but the IRS has a target out on me.
The horror.....
the horror....
That reminds me: they should make a slightly updated version of the film.
Only this time the MIC sends a small group of aspiring psychopaths into the jungle, to let them learn and replicate the same methods to other parts of war theater (unspoken: and later to the fatherland.)
My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can't believe how easy it was once I tried it out. This is what I do... www.jobs-review.com
Soooo...
Do you consider yourself a part of the workforce, or not?
Are you being counted as employed?
Do you consider yourself to be doing something productive?
prove it
56% of women are working minimum wage, the rest - like you - are earning on their backs. That 44% of women are prostituting themselves is a terrible statistic, we need to get the other 56% to realise there's easier money to be made doing what comes naturally.
I doubt many of the posters here ever had a job or they would know that many employers don't even bother paying the minimum wage. Weekly paychecks for all hours worked, with no time and one-half for overtime hours. Illegal deductions for breakage. Cash penalties if you show up late. Your last paycheck is in the mail but you never receive it. "Off the clock" work (Walmart grew rich doing that). Companies, especially small construction companies, that vanish when the job is completed. The minimum wage is a misnomer, since for many workers supposedly receiving it, they actually receive a sub-minimum wage. The USA, now a third world country when it comes to wage payment.
Reading ZeroHedge is the equivalent of watching a train wreck the moment before it happens- all in slow motion.
You just can't stop watching it because you are both somewhat fascinated and obsessed at the same time with seeing it through to the ugly conclusion.
This entire situation has gone well past the point of no-return. There really shouldn't even be a need to read this site anymore. We all know that this economic can-kicking will come to an end and it is just a matter of time. Our time could be spent doing more positive things, but it is just too addicting watching this all play out piece by piece.
Thinking about it now, the phenomena we are experiencing must be something like what the peasantry feels when watching reality TV, but on an entirely more sophisticated and intillectual level.
I'm just waiting for the right time to launch my "Sell a kidney for a week's worth of meth" iPhone app.
Motherfuckers!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocqYn2cawy4
It's a sad day when the corps don't even care about the country that made them great and they are willing to send our kids to war to protect their profit lines. Cannon fodder folks. (We cannon fodder'd some folks)
the corps don't even care about the country that made them great
So handing over power to an elite class of politicians and their cronies and hoping that they wouldn't abuse it didn't work out so well? Who would have guessed?
The USSA was sold out in 1861 if not earlier. Anyone wanting to serve these murderers and banksters is an idiot.
Immigrants used to making 80 cents a day will be glad to take those minimum wage jobs at current levels......
Especially after TPP passes and they can stay in Indonesia making 80 cents a day doing our jobs.
Not my job, long-distance gigoloing lacks that personal touch.
Sending sperm via Fed Ex is getting expensive......
For overseas I just ship it over in one of the whales.
That seems like an improper use of the blow hole, but what do I know.........
How can something wrong feel so right?
It is mind-boggling that 72 percent of Americans make less than $50k, no wonder that even a two-income household would be living paycheck-to-paycheck if they had a couple kids and a recent mortgage on an overpriced POS McMansion.
I've earned six figures and I've earned in the low five figures but my bills have always been paid. It's simply a matter of living within my means which, contrary to popular opinion, is not an imposition on my civil rights. And here's the real shocker: experience has shown me that a little poverty here and there is good for the soul.
I second your experience and your observation, Billy.
I have found that in the times where I was earning large amounts of $$$, I learned little of everlasting value.
On the contrary, during times of material struggle, I was given the opportunity to learn more than can be taught in books.
It's good to have both experiences- times of plenty, and times of little, to maximize your learning opportunities.
I grew up poor but was raised in a home where there was a strong work ethic. Started working at 13 . Made 18k out of college in 1986 after I worked my way through school for 5 years without debt. In 1997 I was making $12 an hour caring for a terminally ill parent and went back to school and got an MIS degree (again no debt), impossible now I suspect. Started at Dell 2 days after I graduated with my degree. Tripled my previous salary within 2 years and never looked back. Always rated a top performer.
Growing up poor and not wanting to return back to that will sometime instill a good deal of fear in you to not fail.
I'm not rich but I learned. save a dollar, spend a dollar, invest a dollar.
ZIRP and the stock market? What a great investment choice!
Real estate that you can never own?
AT this point if you don't hold it you don't own it. A friend of mine had his entire savings account of $43k seized by the state of Wisconsin for back property taxes on a property that he sold in 2012.
The taxes on that house (on Twin Lakes in WI) were $22000 per year for a 3600 sq ft falling down turn of the century house he inherited from his dad. It was not in livable condition and the town valued it at $1.1M. He sold it plus the lot for $350k.
FUCK YEAH!
"opportunity to learn"
That's really the key to everything. It's been said that the unexamined life is not worth living, which is fair enough but I'd add that he who has no interest in examining the world he inhabits might as well be dead.
We humans are very predictible, really:
Times of plenty: What can I consume?
Times of want: What can I produce?
It's an oversimplification- but it gets at the heart of the matter.
That's why it's good to have both times of plenty, and times of want.
Everything in life is cyclical.
Yes, true, but some real enlightenment and maturity comes when you can earn more and still consume less. We have the freedom to think and buy as we please, being led by advertising and emotions leads to an accumulation of stuff but not insight.
What Difference does it Make?
Those jobs can be done by robots.... And then after that and peeps begin to open their eyes to what is really destroying the economy from the top down... Perhaps we can have a real chat about the matter of human rights and who deserves the right to themselves and all they be....
But first all blindfolds must be torn from the victims of the game played on their minds for their eyeballs 24/7/365
It pays to be the person who fixes the robots.
Robots fix the robots. Drones kill the drones. MIC soaks the people.
Having talked to quite a few robot fixers, it appears it doesn't pay that well to service robots. They also told me the engineers who developed the robots didn't make out like bandits either. I asked who is making the money then and it appears the upper management of the companies seemed to be living quite well in every case. Hmmmm,.....
Miffed
Somewhat related...;p
If they voted for Obama and Pelosi then they are living the 'sustainable' life that they chose.
But then, sustainable isn't really the first word that comes out of the mouths of most people when you asked them at 18 yo what they want to do with the rest of their lives, is it? It's not their dream to ration their own lives. It's Obama's dream so the elites can have the rest.
Today there are professional managers, similar to professional politicians. They haven't a clue about the business they are in, were never a worker, and never worked their way up from the shop floor. It used to be you started low, with the workers, and those employees would spend a lifetime at the company and end up in management. Now, you go to harvard because your parents are rich, and they give you a leadership position of responsibility at 22. Those people are so far removed from an average worker, that they couldn't give a fuck less about them. Their entire lives have been separated from the working class prior to be given a massive position of authority over them.
Agree. Good schooling is not even needed. You just have to be nice (yes person) to the current bag of managers. You get setup as a team lead, take credit for all the successes of the team, of which you did none of the detail work, and eventually get the manager title. Unfortunaely, the 1st few levels of management have turned into administrative assistants that just enforce the web of admin rules, and are yes people, helping that giant job sucking sound from ever increasing expense reductions.
Are you describing the professional military?
Oh no you DI'INT!
Should probably exclude retired people from that average - lots of Walmart / Home Depot type jobs for retirees just looking to do something. Would be more telling that way.
"for retirees just looking to do something."
Do you really believe there are a lot of these people? If they wanted something to do, they could volunteer, or do something for no money that doesn't suck.
Also, should show the percentage of African Americans, Caucasians, Mexicans, Illegals.
Yeah, retirees that are earning 0.01% return on their retirement funds, so instead of lasting 20 years they last 2. Most of them are not just looking for something to do, they're working so they can avoid having Friskies for dinner.
But but but...War on Women...and and and "climate change"...and Brooth Jenner's sex change...and what about Ebola and how much Buffets fucking secretary pays in taxes?
Don't forget the fat assed Kardassian and her PR team.
This is bad enough but it WILL get only worse - not better. There isn't any way out of what's happened to the American economy. Heartbreaking.
Let's raise minimum wage for all these folks! Because raising the minimum wage will surely raise their standard of living right??? Sure it will. Placing an arbitrary value on labor always works for the benefit of the worker, right??? Of course it does. Besides, this is the only issue for American workers. This is the cause not the symptom of our problems. So let's stick it to, I mean stick up for American workers!
LOL, the land of opportunity.
Opportunity to go on welfare or Social Security Disability.
At 36 making the min is your freakn' problem not mine. Fix your life or piss off but don't cry to the rest of us who have been busting ass to move up the ladder.
Progressive P.O.S's
Clarification: At any age making minimum wage is your freakin' problem, not mine. Don't cry for pity, bust your ass if you want to move up the ladder.
LOL I always found the guys who scream the loudest about how they're busting their ass to climb up the ladder are the sneaky conniving faggots who do their best to obfuscate the importance of others while sucking the bosses' cawks.
I betcha work hard, buddy. I betcha do.
I am very acquainted with the type. You ask them how they got the capital to start their own company, they claim "investors." Press and you eventually find out that investors=Daddy every time.
In this context, "investors" means "suckers" every time. That little game is just another con. Maybe 1% of those "investors" hits the jackpot, the rest feed the lifestyle of the aspiring CEO. A bit like "opportunity" in the USSA.
This can't be real.
Monday humor?
... and every fucking one of them has a smart-phone for some reason.
Couple that with this headline....
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-11/picasso-painting-sells-record-1...
It was best of times and it was the worst of times.
Increasing minimum wage just raises prices for the person next door making minimum wage. Net gain: zero.
There's a loss for the rest of us if our wages don't raise equally, so there can't be zero net gain.
Even if all of our wages did rise equally, it would just be an inflation on the currency, which would steal from those holding cash.
You know, I'm not sure at this point if what you're saying isnt the Communist Theory of the late 20th/early 21st century.
Remember when Marxists used to quote little snippets to one another about how and by what means the workers would come to control the means of production?
That, to me, is on par with what you're saying. It makes logical sense in your mind, and it appears to be true in a linear, closed-system sense, but I just don't buy it. Neoliberal and Austrian monetary school slogans are not going to form the basis for future economic thinking. Economics is based on faith and social capital, and while these two exist, deficits can be funded, money can be printed, and the laws of supply and demand are not the final arbiters of economic reality. If fiscal discipline was actually a beneficial thing, Europe's austerity measures would have prospered someone, but in fact they just wrecked the economies which implemented them (see here). The core of our thinking on economics is wrong to its foundation -- not just Bernanke's Keynesianism, but really a whole deeper substratum of ideas underpinning capitalism is actually up for grabs. Its not just a "central bank interventions are wrong" paradigm shift, its "modern western economic theory is completely wracked with implicit assumptions which are pinned to a social order which it takes as a given." Even common sense 1980s aphoristic truth is up for review this time.
See David Graeber's "Debt" and Paul Craig Roberts' "Failure of Laissez-Faire Capitalism" for some introduction to these ideas.
The problem is that most humans can't, or won't see what the problem really is- Greed.
The love of money is the root of all evil.
The love of money is GREED.
Instead of thinking in terms of "money" (an abstraction), people should think in terms of the food, clothing and shelter that money can buy.
Now, think of all the land, houses, food and clothing that is being hoarded by Billionaires. Lifetimes worth- hoarded, stolen, from you and your offspring.
If people did this often and repeatedly- and taught it to their children- the real problem- and the solution- would become crystal clear.
I agree with ucde. Reality is a very complex system that we view from the inside out and don't have any concrete grasp on. Anything can happen and we have little ability to predict the future. Perhaps all of our assumed ability to predict the future is sheer delusion, perhaps learned from a young age and fed by confirmation bias.
I agree with Seek_Truth (greed is one major factor omitted or limited in many idealistic ways of thinking -- ie. eliminating crime or coersion) except for calling greed a problem. I think that's just a negative, pessimistic attitude towards reality that you're harboring (probably because you were taught that way by society or religion). To me, greed seems to be a fundamental principle of life. Without it, mankind might live like a herd of domesticated animals or we might never have evolved from single-cell organisms. I struggle to consider either of those better than the reality we do live in, and wouldn't want to remove greed from the world if I knew I could.
Greed is not just covering your needs, or, for instance- covering your needs for a lifetime.
What greed IS- covering beyond all measure the needs- and wants- of your offspring, and all they will ever marry, or bear- for time immemorial. That is simply confiscation of wealth from others, with no need for your offspring to earn a living. Rather, greed encourages bribery of those in power- it is the root of the problem- the root of all evil. It is greed that has led to "the best government money can buy" that western countries currently see the fruits of.
Greed is indeed THE problem. Billionaires (exhibit A for GREED) have corrupted the Political, Financial, Military and Religious systems of the west to an ever increasing measure.
Understanding this is critical to determining the solution to the problem.
No amount of obfuscation will hide that fact.
How do you know that the world isn't already perfect? Or, more accurately, why do you judge the world as imperfect?
That there is any problem is basically just a negative judgement of reality on your part. You are unhappy with life.
You've picked one thing to blame your unhappiness on: greed.
This is no more substantive than a Christian calling "sin" the problem. Before Christianity, the world actually wasn't generally viewed as having problems. Christianity practically invented the notion that the world is bad and that some other world that we can imagine would be better.
Still, many people (myself included) don't consider the world to be problematic and accept greed as a natural, healthy part of life.
In my view, greed is probably an integral part of reality that's to thank for the existence of any life on the planet to begin with. The first single-celled organisms who swallowed other cells, paving the way to multi-cellular organisms, were quite greedy. All life on the planet lives at the expense of something else, which is greed.
(OK, maybe you want to carefully define "greed" so that it allows survival but nothing more. That's extremely arbitrary on your part. Why should animals be allowed to survive at the expense of others, but not to do anything beyond that at the expense of others? And the bigger question: what if they can't survive without also going beyond bare minimum for survival? All happiness beyond bare-minimum survival would be considered unnecessary and greedy by your definition.)
I personally doubt that greed is going anywhere without our extinction, and I'm inclined to think that perhaps the only world without greed would be a world without any life... just non-greedy soil, rocks, and empty pools of water.
Do you agree, or what do you envision a world without greed being like? Would there still be happiness? Intelligence? Sentient life? Evolution?
I'm not trying to obfuscate anything, but to clarify and get to the bottom of things.
P.S. - The root of all "evil"? What the heck is that? Sounds like another boogieman word that unhappy people have invented to rationalize their misery. ;-)
I see you are a moral relativist- that is why your thinking is so clouded. You are stuck in a forest- staring at the bark on a tree.
To get a clear view of the forest- you must first climb a mountain.
Pollution, corruption, disease - these things are not perfect. Of that there can be no intelligent counter-argument. If I am unhappy with life (happiness comes from within- and I am actually quite happy) - it is because I am not blind to the imperfections which are obvious to anyone who has their eyes open to see- from this comes the opportunity to improve things. Pretending otherwise, or ignoring the problem solves nothing. Moral absolutes exist- murder is a sin, for instance. Your historical knowledge is also very lacking- even to the point of making absurd claims that “before Christianity, the world actually wasn't generally viewed as having problems.” Nothing could be further from the truth. And there is nothing healthy about greed. You need to research history, as I stated earlier. You stated that you “don't consider the world to be problematic”. That is sheer lunacy. You have shown repeatedly by your statements that you are morally relativistic, willfully ignorant, self deceived individual who is willing to twist definitions of words in a feeble attempt to convince yourself you are right. That is, unfortunately, the ‘new normal” for the narcissistic “me generation.”
In a world without greed, here are a few of the things that would not exist: Big Government, Big Ag, Big Pharma, MIC, Crony Capitalism, overfishing, etc.
The opposite of greed is selflessness, generosity, and benevolence. These are the values that promote a healthy society.
As for the root of all evil – and your lack of understanding- that gets back to your need to stop examining bark- and climb a mountain.
Yes, I am. Simpler thinking isn't evidence of veracity. (Actually, my thinking isn't so clouded as it's just hard for you to understand -- it has an extra dimension to it, so it speak.)
There are no mountains in the forest, all that we can climb are trees. Each society, culture, group of people, era, etc, have their preferred trees to climb. We all climb a tree in childhood as our parents and influencers teach us moral values. The difference between you and me is likely that you stayed up in that tree imagining it to be a mountain, whereas I was skeptical, climbed down to explore others, and am now able to utilize different trees as different vantage points.
Ironically, many people in different trees, who disagree with your value judgements, also imagine themselves to be on the sole mountain of absolute truth, yet that doesn't phase you.
There can be no intelligent counter-argument because it's not an argument -- it's a simple, relational value judgement. You call them imperfect while I call them perfect. You say the water is hot while I say it's cold.
I do not consider your judgement wrong, merely the opposite of mine. If you consider mine wrong, then I challenge you to provide a so-called "intelligent argument" that pollution and corruption are not perfect (and against moral relativism).
So, you are not blind to something that anyone who is not blind can see? In other words, you've merely defined yourself as "not blind" (positive connotation) and you've happily deceived yourself into thinking you're better than other people who you defined as blind (negative connotation), based on the connotation of words. Intelligent.
Prove it. Just because an old book said so?
Christianity's master stroke, it's genius, was in inventing a different, "perfect" world and slandering reality as being "imperfect". You may not realize just how much Christianity is to thank/blame for popularizing the idea that our world is imperfect.
By focusing on extreme examples, you've done a poor job of communicating where exactly the line in the sand would be drawn between things that would still exist and things that would not exist in a world without greed. How about less extreme examples: cars? clothing? would mankind continue to evolve or change? would mankind have evolved in a world without greed?
You call these values healthy, I call them unhealthy. Our differing value judgements.
I see these as values that would promote a peaceful herd of homo sapiens sheep living a thoughtless happily-ever-after existence (waiting for the sun to die) without shepards. That may be your (positive) ideal. It is my (negative) death of humans as an interesting animal.
On the contrary, I view passion, competition, war, danger, pain, selfishness, etc, all as positives that promote a healthy society at least to the same degree that generosity, benevolence, etc do.
"Evil" is such a 19th century and earlier concept. Your position has been thoroughly refuted. The best thing you have going for you is that you probably aren't rational enough to understand the refutation and you're too committed to be seriously interested in reconsidering everything you think you know about the world, in questioning "what if this isn't a mountain I'm standing on?" and daring to try walking down and viewing it from a different angle.
You are a very confused person. As long as you rely on your addled thinking to discern truth, you'll continue to be stuck in the darkness of the forest. The light, and the big picture (something you don't get) is only discerned by climbing that mountain- the one that you say doesn't exist.
"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter." - Isaiah 5:20
"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows." - Galatians 6:7
The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
You will reap what you have sown.
"I have no intelligent retort, so let me quote some Bible verses for you...."
Classic. :-)
FYI - I was raised as a Christian, too. I was up that tree for longer than I've been down it. I eventually got curious and climbed down to try out others. Moral relativism now makes far more sense than Christianity ever did. I can see no reason to climb back up your tree and pretend it's a mountain again, sorry to say. In fact, I'd be happy to burn that damn old rotting tree down... it truly is outdated.
You are not only delusional, but running after wickedness.
There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
- Proverbs 6:16-19
From reading your comments here and throughout this thread, looks like you've got all seven covered.
No wonder you choose to make up your own definitions.
"Whoever fears the LORD walks uprightly, but those who despise him are devious in their ways." - Proverbs 14:2
How true.
Your username is not very apt at all. "Seek Truth"? It sounds like you've found it ages ago. Now off you run to play with the other kids. Don't forget to pray to your imaginary lord. Let him know that Zoomorph has a big dick for him to suck on the odd chance he happens to be real!
ZH may be relative free of government-loving sheeple, but it still has plenty of other types.
Says the internet tough guy.
You won't be so haughty when He puts you in your place.
"that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth" - Philippians 2:10
You will reap what you have sown.
Absolutely right.
TANSTAAFL
There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.
"Increasing minimum wage just raises prices for the person next door making minimum wage. Net gain: zero."
Yes, because labour is 100% of the cost of all goods and services. Oil, commodities, capital, interest, none of these things at all effect the price of goods and services.
If only 20% of the cost of a good or service is labour, and you increase wages 50%, then the cost of the good or service will only increase 10%, while leaving the worker with probably 500% more disposable income. At least, until that worker acclimatizes to the new wages and increases his fixed expenses so that he is back to living paycheck to paycheck.
I got my first job real paying job when I was 12 years old - it was minimum wage - the boss was a total ass hole - always yelling at everyone -
I found a better job when I was 13 - I told the old boss I was quitting - he yelled at me -
My new boss and his wife treated me like family + the job paid $.25 more than minimum wage.
I have not worked for minimum wage since I was 12 years old.
If you are 30 something and only able to make minimum wage and you want to know what the problem is - go look in the mirror.
I'd rather assume that determinism is the rule and nobody is to blame for the situation they find themselves in. That's still no defense of raising the minimum wage! On the contrary, if you don't like the situation you find yourself in I'd advise you to try something different, decide that it's not worth the effort and kill yourself, or accept it. Pity drags everyone down, and is not an option.
I still maintain that any person working full time at minimum wage is their own worst problem. Cut 10 hours out of that and spend it thinking how to make more than the minimum and in mere weeks the situation would be better. You have to want to work at that wage to get stuck at it.
Beautiful. And since the housing Bubble Burst your Dwelling Prices are up, Bank Fees are Up, Home Insurance Cost is Up, and Property Tax Cost is Up.
I know let's keep the FED's Program for Inflating Home Prices and for Creating Housing Bubbles!
Repost:
You saw the Bloomberg Story today on Frontrunning that 7 Largest US Banks Predict large buying of US Treasuries just as FED switches to strategy of selling more long Term US Treasuries. FED Predicts selling $1.4 Trillion in coming year, but one bank wants $900 Billion (JPM I think). And we know that all Countries in the Developed World have been adding to their Holdings of US LT Treasuries each year.
So it is like Households are competing with the whole world and our TBTF Banks for an Interest Rate for Savings Accounts, CDs, Money Market Accounts.
Anyway looks like NIRP for USA. High Demand for US Treasuries.
I mean what hasn't Federal Govt, TBTF, and the FED done to US Savers, US Workers, US Taxpayers, US Health Patients, US Home Owners, US Fixed Income Dependents, US Retirees, Aging US Workers who Lost Savings & Retirements in the Housing Bubble...
The list of what has slammed the US Citizen since 1999 or even the Savings & Loan Crisis or Passing of NAFTA is HUGE.
Now is there a List of things that have helped US Citizens?? Well Illegals help with the Demographics problem, but it is too mixed to actually call that a good thing (Mainly I see Budget Explosions).
Question: Are we supposed to Thank VICHY DC for the TARP Bailout, LIRP/ZIRP, and QE??
It was the Failure of Clinton Admin, Robert Rubin, Larry Summers, Alan Greenspan, Phil Graham, Leech, Bliley, DOJ, FBI, SEC, OCC, FINRA, Treasury, and then George W. Bush that we had a TARP in the First Place.
There is like 25 bad things that VICHY DC, FED, and VICHY Wall Street Did to us.
----------------------------------------------------------
- and we can't find one thing to Thank them for!! -
----------------------------------------------------------
WHERE the hell is the MSM or Public TV or Public Radio even!
It is a God Damned Counter Intelligence Operation!
----------------------------------------------------------
- DOJ, FBI, Federal Courts Must Pursuit False Statements, Deceitful Practices Systematically Employed against Voters since the Voters are the People and the Government Reports to the People, Racketeering is two Organization who join in a Conspiracy to Profit from a Business, Billions of Dollars are exchanged between those corporations who Lobby and those Politicians that draw from Investments, Fees, and Jobs of any kind -
----------------------------------------------------------
Sorry Using Military Strategy and Techniques on Voters IS ILLEGAL under the US Constitution under Other Rights, 9th Amendment, plus we can sue the federal government under 7th Amendment for damages due to faulty Elections, faulty intelligence or information about our Federal Business, for wars under false pretenses, and for excessive federal budget spending placing Religious and Ethical Damage and unlimited financial burdens on the People.
Deceitful Practices of the Federal Government, Federal Reserve, Office of the President, and US Congress is illegal since the People are the Government. The Government Reports Truthfully to the People. Therefore the damage done by Individuals in any of the afore mentioned Offices is not protected by Sovereign Immunity or any official Diplomatic Immunity and the US Congress or US President may not confer a Pardon nor avoid justice of Impeachment by US Congress nor avoid prosecution for Racketeering by the DOJ & FBI.
The SSA claims median income is under $30K/year. But the St. Louis Fed claims the median income is almost $52K/year:
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/MEHOINUSA672N
How can that be? Could those Federal workers who are not covered by SS be pushing up the average? Or could it be that both numbers are just made up?
apples and oranges - individual income vs. household income
The problem is not the nominal number of the wage, the problem is skill. How can people develop skills which make them more valuable workers, rather than just replacable meat robots?
The dream of everyone becoming a knowledge worker or creative, making software or art. Unless robots make that, too. I mean, how can you compete with robots, if even the Chinese cannot compete with robots? Without all the environmental protections, labor laws, rights, standards of living, and they are still not competitive with robots.
The real minimum wage will always be zero. If those statistics are true, then the future really is bleak. Retirement? Looks like Logan's Run will have to be the future.
Hey Tyler, Valerie Jarrett got the password for your blog. Probably out to do something about that.
I make minimum wage and I'm 42!
I make no excuses.
I went for broke with an idea that did not pan out, because I made some decisions that did not work out, then 2009 reared it's head.
I then became a stay at home dad.
Don't be a stay at home dad, you will be written out of the narrative.
SH
"Don't be a stay at home dad, you will be written out of the narrative."
You could probably sell that as an advertisement for DirectTV.
With Rob Lowe as the stay at home Dad.
Walk away from money (fiat currency anyways). Grow your own food and become 100% self sufficient. At least put a floor on your value as a human being...
If everyone did that we wouldn't have cars, computers, space shuttles, etc. It's OK for you to let your fear of dependency hold you back from dedicating yourself to a higher cause, but let's be explicit about the trade off.
Having paddles with employees names on them, and having a wall with typos is a nightmare? Are people that fragile they cannot take any jokes at all in the workplace?
Oddly, they are that fragile. Don't hurt the worker's feelings. It is considered torture.
This is wonderful news!
America = Greece
first off, "we" didn't create this-the article rightly says it was 0bamacare and other stupid laws.
Also, most union cotracts are tied to the min wage-when it goes up thier wages go up so Dems are paying back thier union cronies.
Now I get it.
I foolishly believed that both parties supported the following for at least the last 30 years:
Now I see that it's all the Dems fault because R's fought valiantly against these destructive policies at every turn. /s
Cruz will fix this! /s
If you're earning more than $50k per year right now you should thank your lucky stars.
But unless you work for a protected monopoly, your day of considering $10/hour jobs is coming.
You can mark that down. It's happened to me in three different careers. I don't have the will to start a 4th.
why earn all that money when about half goes to support the very people and institutions that have created this situation deliberately?
I'm done being a tax mule. I'll earn enough to survive and retire like my great grandfathers and every one of their ancestors - hint: not on a golf course in the The Villages.
This is very misleading. I don't know where the average value comes from, but it must include Walmart greeters and other senior's jobs. The actual numbers (from Pew) is that 29% of minimum wage workers are 35 or older while 51% are 25 or younger.
In this case, average age is a horrible statistics and meaningless except for some shock value.
One thing we know for sure is that the answser isn't voting! Rs and Ds, S.O.S.
Disgustingly pathetic that by mid 30's so many people have not exerted the effort to raise themselves above minimum wage.
The human species needs a garbage collection algorithm running continuously that cleans out the failed humans, ie garbage.