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Muskular Magic (Or Smoke & Mirrors)
Submitted by Howard Kunstler via Kunstler.com,
Elon Musk, Silicon Valley’s poster-boy genius replacement for the late Steve Jobs, rolled out his PowerWall battery last week with Star Wars style fanfare, doing his bit to promote and support the delusional thinking that grips a nation unable to escape the toils of techno-grandiosity. The main delusion: that we can “solve” the problems of techno-industrial society with more and better technology.
The South African born-and-raised Musk is surely better known for founding Tesla Motors, maker of the snazzy all-electric car. The denizens of Silicon Valley are crazy about the Tesla. There is no greater status trinket in Northern California, where the fog of delusion cloaks the road to the future. They believe, as Musk himself often avers, that Tesla cars “don’t burn hydrocarbons.” That statement is absurd, of course, and Musk, who holds a degree in physics from Penn, must blush when he says that. After all, you have to plug it in and charge somewhere from the US electric grid.
Only 6 percent of US electric power comes from “clean” hydro generation. Another 20 percent is nuclear. The rest is coal (48 percent) and natural gas (21 percent) with the remaining sliver coming from “renewables” and oil. (The quote marks on “renewables” are there to remind you that they probably can’t be manufactured without the support of a fossil fuel economy). Anyway, my point is that the bulk of US electricity comes from burning hydrocarbons, and then there is the nuclear part which is glossed over because the techno-geniuses and politicians of America have no idea how they are going to de-commission our aging plants, and no idea how to safely dispose of the spent fuel rod inventory simply lying around in collection pools. This stuff is capable of poisoning the entire planet and we know it.
The PowerWall roll out highlighted the “affordability” of the sleek lithium battery at $3,500 per unit. The average cluck watching Musk’s TED-like performance on the web was supposed to think he could power his home with it. Musk left out a few things. Such as: you need the rooftop solar array to feed the battery. Figure another $25,000 to $40,000 for that, depending on whether they are made in China (poor quality) or Germany, or in the USA (and installation is both laborious and expensive). Also consider that you need a charge controller and inverter to manage the electric flow and convert direct current (DC) from the sun into usable alternating current (AC) for your house — another $3,500. So, the cost of hanging a solar electric system on your house with all its parts is more like fifty grand.
What happens when the solar panels, battery, etc., reach the end of their useful lives, say 25 years or so, when there is no more fossil fuel (or an industry capable of providing it economically). How will you fabricate the replacement parts? By then the techno-wizards will have supposedly “come up with” a magic energy rescue remedy. Stand by on that, and consider the possibility that you will be disappointed with how it works out.
What gets me about Tesla’s various products and activities is that, when all is said and done, they are meant to extend the fatal rackets of contemporary life, especially car dependency and the suburban development pattern.
Car dependency can and probably will fail on the financial basis, not on the question of how you run the car. The main economic problem we face is the end of growth of the kind we’re used to, the kind that generates real capital and enables bank lending. It is already happening and has led to fewer loans for fewer qualified borrowers. It will also lead to the end of government’s ability to pay for fixing the elaborate hierarchy of paved highways, roads, and streets that the cars have to run on. Imagine the psychic pain of the Silicon Valley billionaire driving his $87,000 Tesla P85D down a freeway that the State of California hasn’t been able to repair in five years.
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You're one of those lunatic deniers Howard and therefore you must be ignored. It's settled science, don't try to muddy things up with facts.
Was attempting a cogent intellectual fact based conversation with a recent UC graduate in the sciences.
I pointed out to him that a "theory" by definition remains open to scientific challenge and until a "proof" is formally established and thus becomes a "theorem", it is not "settled". Esteemed graduate of CA institute of Higher Education told (shouted, including that "I know nussing, I know, nussing!") me I know not what the fuck of I speak and that theories and theorems are one and the same "thingamajiggies".
Buy the fucking dip.
At which point you should have grabbed his tongue with a pair of pliers and sliced it out of his mouth...
Standard Disclaimer: I am feeling extremely Medieval this morning. Haven't had my Snickers bar apparently.
Sooo, I'm supposed to ignore the battery problems those cars have had with catching on fire, and put a giant lithium battery from the same company in my house? I'll pass, thanks. Id feel a lot safer with a bunch of golf cart batteries wired on parallel, probably a lot cheaper too. And you don't here about many of those types of solar battery banks catching on fire.
Solar modules are usually warrantied for 80% of stated output for 25 years. They can continue to operate for 40 years with degrading output, however they rarely just die.
Oh but he's ELON MUSK!!!
The Holy of Holiest in Silly-con Valley!
And he make ROCKETS & shit too!
All bow to Elon Christ!
My shit rockets too after eating Mexican.
I guess he should read the works of former Harvard professor T. Kaczynski "Industial Society and its Future"
But but... He works long hours!
"You didn't incinerate that"
Maybe he would get moar respect if he changed his name to Elton Musk, Rocket Man.
The LGBT "community" in the SF Bay Area would petition the Pope to have him sainted.
Yeah, I can't wait until he invents a rocket that gets to space without shooting something on fire out the back.
What IDIOT would by this "Power Wall" for their home?
If you really want batteries for your home Solar system, lead-acid batteries are far more efficient, far less dangerous, far less damaging to the environment (than Lithium mining) and cost a hell of a lot less:
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=230107
Obviously, the problem with lead-acid batteries is the lack the trendy Power Wall TM silicon valley marketing.
A lot of you can't see the forest because of the trees.
Musks PowerWall will keep the below ground Lizard-Peoples from being catatonic during the next ice age.
This thing was rolled out in Australia at the same time. I (tried) to comment on a few of the fawning articles. One was entitled "why it is important", in the tech section of a national daily, the "why" was that it's "cheap". One of my comments that did make it through pointed out that seemed to be an inverse correlation between commentators' (and writers') understanding of the technology and their degree of euphoria over it. Maybe the censors thought that was a positive comment.
Sheeple....
Did you include your avatar? I'd print anything you wrote if you included your avatar...
I am curious about these new aqueous ion batteries. Use salt water, manganese oxide and carbon.
http://www.aquionenergy.com/energy-storage-technology
I haven't seen any numbers yet as they compare to lead acid but interesting anyways. Something new in batteries.
A less toxic alternative is always worth considering. . .
I have a 250 AH set of Nickel Iron batteries coupled with 2K of solar and a Magnum inverter 4024 and two OutBack controllers which handle my cabin in the mountains quite well.
No corrosives and they use betwen 1.5 to four gallons of distilled water per month. Don't know about the aqueous you mentioned but stuff like that always justifies a "look see".
dog
I downloaded the technical paper from their website and it appeared to me that the novelty of their energy storage device was in the anode, since high specific area carbon electrodes have been around for a long time. I then looked the following patent:
Composite anode structure for aqueous electrolyte energy storage and device containing same
An anode electrode for an energy storage device includes both an ion intercalation material and a pseudocapacitive material. The ion intercalation material may be a NASICON material, such as NaTi.sub.2(PO.sub.4).sub.3 and the pseudocapacitive material may be an activated carbon material. The energy storage device also includes a cathode, an electrolyte and a separator.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=...
The issued claims are all method claims for operating an energy storage device as opposed to claims for a device itself. Method claims are generally inferior to apparatus or device claims, and the device claims were all eventually withdrawn or cancelled. This is a very crowded and quite mature field. My sense is that the company is betting on stationary batteries that may not perform as well as lead-acid batteries but ultimately have an advantage in overall lifecycle cost when-large scale environmental/disposal practices are taken into account.
I was developing a favorable impression of Aquion Energy until I read the following statement in their white paper "The Advantages of Aqueous Hybrid Ion Batteries Over Lead Acid Batteries:"
"Reliability and redundancy are inherent in systems wired in parallel, meaning that one AHI battery failure does not completely take down an entire installation, unlike lead acid."
Car sales aren't going so well, so he's thinking about how else he can make some $$. Pull the battery out of the car and try selling it as a stand-alone battery pack for the house.
Sounds like a piss-poor product concept to me.
Nope, lead acid is ok if you take the deepcell ones but the best for these purposes are the nickel–iron battery.
Look them up The Edison battery, will last a lifetime.
From wiki:
"It is a very robust battery which is tolerant of abuse, (overcharge, overdischarge, and short-circuiting) and can have very long life even if so treated"
From gizmag.com:
"A green, rechargeable battery that is suitable for powering electric vehicles and stationary power storage applications, and that would survive tens of thousands of charge cycles in a useful life of 100 years without loss of capacity. What could be a better innovation for our times? Such a battery has been developed, and recently improved by Stanford researchers. Oh, one other thing. The battery was invented by Thomas Edison in 1901."
A good reference is:
http://ironedison.com/technical-info
Thanks for the link!
There's multiple different types of LI batteries, not all "dangerous". Yes, sometimes batteries from cell phones explode but how often does that happen? You're far more likely to get an electrical fire from faulty wiring than the battery.
And sure, the lead-acid batteries have 2 x's nominal amperage (which is great if you need to start a car or some shit, not run every day appliances), but lithium ion can be recharged 2-3 more times than lead-acid before becoming "worn out" (i.e. capacity drops to 70%). This alone makes up / breaks even for the cost.
Lithium Ion's energy density is also 3-4 times higher than that of lead-acid (i.e. smaller batteries)
Li-Ion is still a new technology. Lead-acid is a mature technology. Tesla's giga factory will also provide economies of scale for the Li-Ion batteries.
Enjoy having a shitload of lead-acid batteries and finding out which one goes bad, since if one lead-acid battery goes bad when linked in parallel it affects the entire battery. Whomever wrote that article has little to no knowledge about how batteries actually work.
Surprisingly, his battery pack is somewhat less expensive per amp-hour of storage than, say, my home's 6 L-16 (double car-battery size) batteries. They cost around $250 apiece, so $1500 for their 2100 amp-hours of storage. The Powerwall has 10,000 amp-hours of storage if I recall, for $3500. Cheaper, a bit more efficient--but as Kunstler says, sized for our energy problems, not for solutions. Gigantism and excess drove a lot of us off-grid in the first place decades ago, and those values have hounded us all the way up our driveways. You can't even volunteer for simplicity anymore . . .
And not a single vote for what I believe is one of the wisest posts here?
Clearly, what we lack the most of is WISDOM... Thanks for helping remind me that it really does still exist.
You need to price kilowatt-hours, not amp-hours, an amp-hour at 12V has way less power than one at 120V. 10x less, to be precise.
Funny how little-known Ohms Law is, even among people with educations. I picked it up from my dad at age maybe 8, and never forgot it.
In my case the 250 AH is at 24 volts and equates to approximately 6 KWH - Musk is touting 7 and 10 KWH so his price is less than my Ni-Fe batteries but still the Lithium worries me every bit as much as the explosive aspects of a wet sulfur battery. For my piece of mind, I was willing to pay more dinero. dog
I had 16 of those L-16's coupled with the system I referred to above and they worked great except they really wanted to be exercised and if you do not stay at your cabin full-time they wear out too soon. You might want to look into a Ni-Fe set for the future - they are a bit pricey but are warrantied for 10 years with an average observed life of up to 40+ years. I really like the idea of no hydrogen sulfide explosive gas and mine are inside the cabin so it was even more important to me. Most folks where my cabin in located have their sulfur wet type batteries away from the home/cabin in a shed. Enjoy!
"At which point you should have grabbed his tongue with a pair of pliers and sliced it out of his mouth..."
The Cheech Wizard I know and love would have advised him to kick the idiot in da nuts.
I did mention I hadn't had my Snickers bar.... but yes...
http://www.phespirit.info/pictures/heroes/images/p001_image_1.jpg
It's funny how when I was a youngster and going to school that at the time we were taught a theory was just that, a theory. Today a theory is now a fact. We are living 1984 where words no longer have any meaning.
The Days of Double Speak have arrived under the guise of Mean Political Correctness
Once they managed to conflate Darwin's Theory with a "Law", it was game, set and catch-22.
I also do beliieve that New-Tonnes theories made us heavier and smaller.
+++ on the New-Tonnes :)
Yes, ORI's presence is a treat.
;-) Grazzi gents.
Just realized that his first name was.....
iSack and he became famous with an Apple.
In-genius
We all know where that extra mass came from:
The discovery of a new sub-atomic particle.
We already knew about:
Electrons = low mass, negative charge
Protons = higher mass, Positive charge
Neutrons = higher mass, no charge
Now we discovered the:
Glutton = Extremely High mass, no charge or energy whatsoever...
1 Glutton = [(7 EBT + 4 Sec8vouchers)2 x 3 applePi ] 1obamiephone
Sounds like the same degree of logic of this article: "What happens when the solar panels, battery, etc., reach the end of their useful lives, say 25 years or so, when there is no more fossil fuel (or an industry capable of providing it economically). How will you fabricate the replacement parts?"
According to this author, I should be very worried about the disappearance of the fossil fuel industry in 25 years, yet do nothing to make my home self-reliant with currently available technlogy because 25 years from now the solar array may wear out. Regardless of what one thinks about solar and the benefits of no longer being dependent on your local utility to run your electricity needs, this type of logic just screams that his mind is already made up regardles of facts or even theories.
So did you take a look at using a low cost swamp cooler to solve your cooling problem in Florida?
If memory serves, you poised a question about this on a different article here on ZH.
It wasn't so much a question, but you answered it nonetheless. Swamp coolers don't work in humid climates according to my research. Florida averages in the high 80% humidity range in the summer. And it's the humidity that is so brutal.
Swamp coolers are for arid deserts. Even there they usually can't keep up during rainy season. Source: lived in the Sonoran Desert where most houses still had swamp coolers until 1-2 decades ago.
If you don't like humidity, don't live near the ocean. How's that for a low-tech solution.
Yes. High humidity keeps one from being able to sweat, because sweating is just evaporation of water from the skin, and the more water vapor there already is in the air, the harder it is for more water to evaporate. Air can only hold so much water vapor. Too bad, because a swamp cooler is a great tool in an hot arid environment.
Nevertheless, fans are always helpful. And an attic fan, which sucks the hot air out of the top of a room and pushes it out of roof vents or eaves, at the same time sucking cooler air in from low, hopefully shaded windows, is always helpful.
Shade is always helpful.
Just the same, in my university in-town home I've taken up gardening vegetables, planting fruit trees, a grape arbor and with a future provision for chickens (which some of my neighbors already have).
I'm conservative in one real way and that is in covering the back end.
I consider my back end just as important as my front end. :-)
I think you misconstrued his point. He's not saying not to bother making yourself more self-reliant now - he's saying that new tech won't prevent the inevitable tough times coming.
you are correct.
but that's LTER for you - misconstruer extraordinaire!
Well Knuckles, I have as yet to settle upon this illusory settled science. There is of course truth by definition. Force is equal to mass time acceleration by definition... including the defined parameters involved... and allowing that there is actually an objective universe to begin with, and even I will go along with that one, or that we, as sensory receiving entities, have something valid to say about it... and I will allow for that one as well.
On the other hand, when I read a Scientific American article that refers to Darwinian evolution as settled science, despite clear refutation from the fields of genetics (for a time in my youth I meandered along the path of molecular genetics as a possible career) and the fossil record... and in fact allows that even debate on the subject must be shut down... When I see the idea that awareness is simply a matter of neural net density, an idea disavowed years ago, but now back in vogue because there are no other ideas, and awareness must derive itself from material processes (see evolution above) I come to opinion that settled science is nothing more than politics and religion replete with its high priests and magicians and, sadly enough perhaps, I am simply not a believer.
Or to put it perhaps more succinctly **** settled science!
Scientists like to think that some things have been settled, but the truth is nothing is ever settled in science. It is logically impossible to prove something in the physical world.
E = MC (2) is somehow never open for discussion. It does make me suspicious about Hiroshima etc.
Well keep in mind that there is never, ever a "theorem" in science. Theorems can only exist in a world that can accept axioms, like mathematics. Otherwise, it's all theory.
I'd tried to do a self driven kickstarter (putting these same sequences I've been linking to for sale, with a book etc.) to out Musk Musk with efficient ease and grace. Especially on the EV front. I know.
Did not happen then, 2012 wasn't the time:
https://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2012/06/05/6666-beyond-carbon-beyond-time/
I used to have a shovelhead with a kickstarter back in the stoned age.
and the worst insult in silicone valley is to be called a luddite.
You can barely send a lithium battery in the mail anymore. Now we are going to slap a big ass pack of them on the side of your house hooked up to the the grid via switches and inverters that may or may not be purchased solely on price.
And yet the same people who will promote this shit will tell you never to leave a fucking candle unattended.
Maybe I ate too many lead paint chips as a kid, but does this seem a tad bit dangerous?
pods
It can't be dangerous. Danger and risk have been legislated away by the nanny state. Seat belts save lives, diving boards are dangerous and must be banned, and there will be no backwards skating at the roller rink.
Doc, we used to shoot fireworks at each other as kids (both Roman Candles and bottle rockets from bike launchers) and there ain't no fucking way I am EVER hooking up a lithium powerpack to my house.
Maybe if the pack was going to PRODUCE power, but it merely stores it. Lots of cheaper technologies around for that chore. Deep cycle lead acid outperforms it too.
This is as bright an idea as having a watch that alerts you to pick up your phone.
pods
Ha-ha, +1 on the fireworks wars.
We had one that was named the "n****r" chaser, spun around a lot, then got airborne pretty quick and flew around in a random pattern, usually very low, hence the "chaser" part of the name.
One chased a buddy of mine that we were "warring" with (chased him for about 20 seconds), biggest laugh of my life watching my buddy get scared out of his wits by an apparent "smart" bomb.
Much of the reason for solar power being generated is that state and federal subsidies make rooftop solar panels affordable in the first place--very few people would install these rooftop solar systems at all if not for the federal tax break which takes the form of a 30 percent non-refundable tax credit known as the solar investment tax credit.
A study by the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill concludes that in California, over 54 percent of all purchases would have not occurred in the absence of government subsidies.
Musk will stand to profit twice from those subsidies—once from SolarCity’s sales of the subsidized panels, and then again from Tesla’s sale of home batteries to the same customers.
“Elon Musk is making a big play for American solar and all the subsidies that go along with it,” an energy industry consultant told The Daily Caller News Foundation. “If you’re getting millions from the federal government and a subsidized power grid, you might as well keep offering related products.”
http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/05/solar-subsidies-could-let-musk-double-...
And lookie here...
https://vidrebel.wordpress.com/2015/04/20/white-house-staff-google-tesla...
I keep hearing, "Put your head on your desk Ralphie" over and over....
Now that is a classic, funny handle mate. Well done.
When i was a wee lad, I disassembled a smoke alarm to get the Americanium disc out to play with, and exploded a mercury thermometer all over my (carpeted) bedroom trying to do the Fred Flinstone 'fake being sick by heating up a thermometer with a flame' trick. Never did find much of the mercury.
And I turned out just BOOOOOOGITYOOOOOOGITYOOOOOOG I mean fine too.
When you add a smart meter to the equation whoever can access it can make your batteries blow whenever they want....
What a bunch of bullcrap !!! Very very few commentators have actual experience with solar power. My 7.5 Kilowatt solar plant has 30 panels, 30 micro inverters, produces 220 volts AC direct, and has paid for itself over the past 6 years because of state and federal tax rebates (65% of total cost) and good local power purchase plans. No expensive central inverter (central point of failure) and NO BATTERIES, no moving parts. It just works; electric bills have gone from over $350 monthly to a high of $85 in the dead of last winter. And some months are free of charge, pardon the pun.
Yes, when a storm brings down the grid, my system is useless for the duration of the outage. Happened twice for a total of 30 hours over the past 6 years. Probably ought to purchase a 110v one kilowatt battery-inverter system - ball-parked at $2500 - cheap insurance to go along with the spare micro inverters I keep just in case.
BTW, the useful life of a well-maintained solar panel is in excess of 50 years.
"and has paid for itself over the past 6 years because of state and federal tax rebates"
You do realize that we paid for that right? Actually our kids and grandkids will be payng for it. Not to mention the lifetime of interst they will be paying on "your" investment. I have nothing against alternatives, as long as YOU are the one paying for them.
Hey doc-if federal, state and local governments didn't take most of what you and I earn from us in taxation-then mebbe WE could afford such choices without having to be dependent on"tax credits"
"Yes, when a storm brings down the grid, my system is useless for the duration of the outage . . ."
All you've done is buy a system that generates rebates. As constructed it offers absolutely no redundancy or self-reliance. Way to go.
Oh, so that is where the fruits of your neighbor's labor went? Your vanity. And where are you coming up with 50 year lifespan of a pv array?
we have a new author selling his own best seller to himself, ha...
Cool. I will be following your lead soon. Just got my 5 acre land lately. I'll be adding a shipping container home + solar panels + battery bank.
It is so economical it had to be paid for by you and I (tax rebates). Good thing it is carbon neutral. D'uh
Speaking of settled science, what are the odds TPTB have mastered immortality via brain transplants and Elon Musk is really just Elon Musk's body with Steve Job's brain inside?
Why waste money on inventions like this, which help people,
when you can spend it on another war, or
modernizing your nuclear weapons?
MOAR is really really gooder and bester.
Imagine the psychic pain of the Silicon Valley billionaire driving his $87,000 Tesla P85D down a freeway that the State of California hasn’t been able to repair in five years.
Imagine the psychic pain when the Neocons provoke a nuclear war with Russia - but, perhaps, luckily, no one will be left to imagine that pain
War Threat Rises As Economy Declines — Paul Craig Robertshttp://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/05/11/war-threat-rises-economy-decl...
Imagine the psychic pain when the Silicon Valley Narcissistic Billionaire's (on un-exerciseable out of the money restricted stock options) Tesla (regardless of model) looses it's charge in a puddle of water on an irreparable CA highway, shorts out such that no electrical systems work AT ALL, can't open the door because it's locked tight, the batteries alight and he burns to death screaming ever so slowly while small children sing and dance about the pyre's display as mea culpas to God for the destruction of the environment by the heinously uncaring rich Progressive class like this one who wouldn't stop watering his fucking yard.
Don't forget to throw the wife and kids on the pyre.
Suttee is the right thing to do.
You should be ashamed of yourself Winston; that is sooooo neo-colonial.
Holy Crap - that was good... I have been waiting patiently for something to eclipse the all-encompassing 'Nuke-the-unborn-gay-whales' (or even the 'Co-exist' bumper stickers), but yours...? We could have a winner -
I remember the one day I knew the goddamn lane-wide pothole was in the center lane on 101 but couldn't change lanes due to traffic.
End result... Blew two tires at the same time... Other than get the fuck out of the Bay Area/CA, there is nothing anyone can do.
Likely a stupid question, but... why didn't you slow down?
Considering it's the 101, I am surprised he could go fast enough in the first place...
Musk=Con
musk: a strong smelly substance used in perfume -- Merriam-Webster
Musk: An overwhelming smelly presence that lingers in Sillicon Valley -- me
There is no shortage of magnetic energy that can be used through induction aka aircore transformer methods to power a house because of the way the earth works...
You just need to build equipment with that in mind which means low power, well defined and efficient. Modular units that can power independently of each other. Tesla (the real one) figured this shit out over 100 years ago. He just wasn't able to figure out how to scale it up it scope to centralize the grid for modern power requirements. This would put governments out of business and also enforce local property rights.
Small and decentralized will work without solar as long as the planet keeps spinning.
The real Tesla (who's name is being smeared by this Musk phony) figured it out but GE (Edison) made sure to burn Tesla's factory down.
Those NY state mega corps like GE and IBM are run like the Mafia. Real evil scum.
I believe it was JP Morgan that ended the experiments when he realized there wasn't a clear path to profits.
And of course, who can forget George Scherff (and Jr)?
And if Jeb gets elected as prez then we can say "there's a new Scherff in town"!
Meet the new Scherff, same as the old scherff.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_bush19.htm
That is one of the reasons he pushed for AC current systems because of transmission reach. The problem with using AC is lightning works on DC. You have to convert it from the sender from AC to DC then be able to convert it back to AC afterwards on the receiver's end. You could easily do it on a small scale as efficiently using DC only devices since lightning works on DC not AC.
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/lightning-ac-or-dc.70874/
AC vs. DC...occasionally reviews are necessary to prevent excessive amounts of liquid fertilizer from stinking things up.
The earth itself is one giant planetary DC dynamo. You design with that in mind. There is more than enough high voltage DC to be siphoned out of the air using induction. If there wasn't you wouldn't have lightning strikes in the first place.
Not only that you can siphon it from the ground...
How many amps have you personally demonstrated that you get out of the air/ground with your functioning system?
He trolls the youtubes for overunity videos. He knows his shit!
Now where did I leave my kapanadze coil...
love ACDC
Build it, claim your million dollar prize from Randi and put the plans on the internet ...
It already is...
http://www.antiquewireless.org/uploads/1/6/1/2/16129770/09-the_mallory_b...
http://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=165638
http://philcorepairbench.com/biascell.htm
Certain forms of dry cell batteries may be extremely long lived with very small current draw, the Oxford Electric Bell is the better example, but they do not pull their energy from the ether through "magnetic energy that can be used through induction".
They simply don't provide a lot of energy period.
Musky's got it wrong as far as batteries goes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc%E2%80%93air_battery
Zinc–air batteries (non-rechargeable), and zinc–air fuel cells (mechanically rechargeable) are metal-air batteries powered by oxidizing zinc with oxygen from the air. These batteries have high energy densities and are relatively inexpensive to produce. Sizes range from very small button cells for hearing aids, larger batteries used in film cameras that previously used mercury batteries, to very large batteries used for electric vehicle propulsion.
Or you use electrolyte based batteries and quartz (no shortage of rocks with quartz in them) when near a source of running water.
Here are a whole bunch of different types.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal%E2%80%93air_electrochemical_cell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium%E2%80%93air_battery
No shortage of commercially available aluminum out there.
Umm, manufacturing Al takes huge amounts of energy. Electrical energy. Might want to consider that.
Umm there is already a shitload of it that has been already manufactured, i.e. beer cans, etc.
It is not the energy but how they work.
They work on low amperage almost a V=R with no I.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080828142540AAxWxNM
Now find an underground source near a magnetic lay line for example with running water and quartz it pulses electricty and it is a consistent pulse based on the rate of flow of water over the material. Repeater, tuning, telegraph and storage system using natural materials.
You can find natural underground high voltage DC generating power sources using magnetized divining rods or a custom calibrated metal detector.
If V=R, then I most certainly does not equal zero. I=0 means V=0.
Ohms Law.
And if I approaches zero, the power output also approaches zero. Which isn't a lot of use.
“Car dependency can and probably will fail on the financial basis”
Oh, man. We’re going to be living in cramped cities, carless with people who have poor credit ratings.
OMFG, I'm having shortness of breath and chest pains .....
It is white and shiny plus sleek looking like any iTurd product so the sheep will love it. It does not matter if it works.
All things that are unsustainable will end. The will be unsustainable on a financial basis before they are unsustainable on a financial basis.
In 25 years we're either likely to have figured out how to advance nuclear (fission or fusion), fixed our wasteful energy regulatory system, or both. There's a lot of work to do but I'm confident we'll succeed.
Anything except growing up and accepting the way of the nature, huh? More toys? Thats not progress, btw, it's called Neoteny.
The way of nature would call for a pretty massive human die off at this point. Why don't you go first.
More fodder for your local landfill...
Just what I always wanted, a 10 kw-h Lithium Ion Bomb on the wall in the house !!!
Just add a tripwire and a fuse and presto! it's part of your home security system. Not sure how it'd net out on your Homeowner's policy though....
"What happens when the solar panels, battery, etc., reach the end of their useful lives, say 25 years or so, when there is no more fossil fuel (or an industry capable of providing it economically)."
Solar doesn't make a whole lot of economic sense yet if you don't want to be off grid, but EROI has been positive for a few decades already.
Solar could make a lot of sense if applied correctly. The current approach is expensive and relatively short lived. Maybe something new.
Does anyone remember reading about steam engines? Now imagine a large magnifying glass instead of a coal or oil burner. Design the machine and maintain it correctly and it could last virtually forever.
Steampunk is cute and all but there are some ideas worth a look.
one big sham with willing able delusional greenie image consious walking frauds that have a plan for you and i after they steal money from our labor. entitled elites. fuck them, fuck that and their slimy hypocritic soul(if they have one)...
It's simply part of the Animal Farm society where "industrial whatever" will deal with the problems on this planet. Luckily there is only one problem when there is a problem; your own consciousness. Hare Krishna.
So total destruction of the human race is actually the solution?
Distributed power generation if the future, not solar or wind. A house battery pack and a solar array are like Laserdiscs and Beta cassettes. They are temporary workarounds on the way to the real technology. Musk's battery only makes sense where power is >$0.31/kwh, and even then it will take 5 years to pay for itself. How many people are using the same battery pack over 5 years? At best this is just a social engineering project.
It's not relevant to most people, but if you're dependent on generators the economics shift a bit ... it saves on a lot of diesel and maintenance.
U.S. average retail price per kilowatthour is 9.84 cents...
http://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/
In other words, other than Hawaii, Musk's electrical snake oil in a fancy package makes no sense at all.
Let's go global.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing
Germany, but only because they shut down their nuclear plants and now buy their needed juice from France.
But the truly interesting thing that is borne out here is that electricity costs are the highest on islands. (Which of course makes
perfect sense if they have no natural resources of their own that can be used to generate electricity)
So Musk obviously needs to rethink his whole campaign...
"Retiring to an island? Be sure to bring your Tesla battery with you."
I don't defend Musk's battery pack, but A battery pack of future (eg : using either the current Li ion or tomorrow the graphene supercapac) linked to a mobile/orientable device like smartflower solar, could be very attractive in under-infrastructured Africa and its agri environment. A whole continent to make modern.
They say Africa has no electricity infrastructure and its the main brake to create economic growth. With all the sun and wind there (think the Archimedes F1 house wind turbine) you can create stand alone type electricity for each village, artisanal industrial development and schooling/housing.
About time to go to Erythia and create a paradise of tourism cum local growth (fab beaches and nice people), rather than an ongoing exodus of miserable victims of civil wars and feudal gangsters buying guns from the West and displacing populations to Libya onwards to die in their boats.
The west is truly fucked up in its ethics and its paradigm. We have betrayed humanity and Jefferson's dream.
Your smartflower will get jacked by some thugs with guns. Every resource there is controlled by govt and their cronies.
There is hardly any rule of law - they give zero fucks.
that mindset is precisely why america is dying; you guys don't believe in your own heritage and don't want to fight for it.
At least in france we know how to cut a king's head.
How many autos were burned by "asian immigrants" this past year?
You mean the heritage where some assholes floated on a boat, raped and corralled some natives, then established a similar system of oppression and two-tiered law on the other side of the pond?
flintstone mobile
Elon Musk may not be the next Edison but he's the guy that is taking the lead in big scale innovation at this point. He's getting money from everywhere not just the Gov. and I'd rather see the Gov. give him money as to see them give it to the MIC. I would not sponsor that Virgin Airlines guy. You can tell it's just something to do for him. He's not in Musks class.
The question is can society last that long. I see buildings going up and wonder why, so there you go.
You can always spot the luddite nonsense of Kunstler even before you click on the headline of the article.
Anyone ever stop to think why he's pushing luddism so hard? ON A COMPUTER?
I looked at solar panels 5 years ago..and the life span was 10 years.....and the way the companys are going..your OEM will not be around by that time....so replacement parts will go bye bye...and you will have to have a whole new installation with their warranties or else......they are a cocktail fad....and the lefties with cash to burn will install them.....just to say they have them...
"...and the life span was 10 years..." [citation needed]
You couldn't have looked into it very hard since even old, crappy panels are renowned to last longer than ten years, so I'm not sure where you're getting your misinformation for dissemination. Not to mention there are a number of other ways than PV panels to harness solar/wind at your home, limited only by your own wherewithal and/or the depths of your pockets.
IE If you're short of cash you need to be long on brains, or vice versa.
Nobody but Kunstler and defeatist luddites say you have to charge your electric car by plugging it into 'the coal fired grid', or build a 3000 sq.ft. house instead of, for the same price or less, a1500 sq.ft. house that powers itself. Those are choices, and they are currently available.
Renewables like solar/wind/wave may have high initial cap ex (for now), but on a long enough timeline the low maintenance combines with absolutely no constant non renewable inputs until they pay for themselves; figuring that one out ain't exactly rocket surgery.
here is a sexy way to go solar power and its of a size to fit each house. (Two would be ideal for mine)
Take a look : http://www.edfenr.com/smartflower
Watch the video (voir la video).
I believe each unit costs less than 5000 $. (needs to be checked).
Et voila
Hey Elon (By the way that aftershave you make bearing your name smells like unwashed buttocks)
I was in the beautiful garden spot called Dominican Republic and they had the most amazing wall of power. It was 12 golf cart batteries charged by the grid or solar (solar for the rich) and fed in into the house when the power goes out every day. Hmm. I think retail is about 1000 bucks. More power and more charge cycles than your wall o crap.
Doesn't take a whole lot of genius to get a bunch of chinese slaves to solder together 100s of cr123 lithium batteries you rascal. Marketing it as such is genius though, kudos.
J. Barnum Musk. Maybe I'm just jealous I couldn't become fabulously wealthy but mastering the con game of siphoning money from the corrupt oligarchs. Again, conning the con man is mucho clever.
Thorium reactors are the answer but they make too much sense to actually implement. Besides you can't make the bomb with them.
More info:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbyr7jZOllI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sG9_OplUK8
Ewon Gay Musk selling failed battery tech as new snakeoil
Gitmo, with the other dumb black muslim African
Well, if you live in California, the grid is going to be powered by unicorn farts, which I have been assured aren't just natural gas.
Musk is the oligarch from the US. In the USSR they steal from the people in the US they steal from the stockmarket.
I generally like ZH articles, but not sure of why there is a bias against alt energy, especially solar, wind. Some of these articles are blatant lies and distortions as if to fit a particular agenda. I'm no tree hugger, but I live in a metropolitan city (Philly) and drive an electric car because I don't drive far on a per day basis. I lease so you can't say I get a subsidy for it. Not having to pay any gas, oil changes, and the maintenance is extremely low. The only thing I had to change in over 11k miles is windshield wiper fluid. No belts, no O2 sensors, no intake/outake exhaust, silent as all hell, zippy than most cars out here. I got 5 ppl in the household and at 9 cents a kilowatt, electricity is very cheap. In PA, you get a variety of electric suppliers and we have a whole lot of wind farms and solar cells in addition to natural gas. Coal generated power is not that much. I mean really, do ppl have any idea how much oil is used to extract oil, transport the oil, refine the oil, retransport that refined oil, etc? Any prepper can tell you that they supply a reasonable amount of energy from solar panels. Now if you crave a McMansion, well thats on you.
From Day ONE, I've said Musk is just another PT Barnum. Buyer beware.
You can buy 45W solar panels from Harbor Freight for $150 with a coupon. Probably, you can buy even cheaper if you wait for a sale.
http://www.harborfreight.com/45-watt-solar-panel-kit-68751-8527.html
It also sells cheap inverters and batteries.
Clearly FUKUSHIMA Daichi is far too daunting for the massive brain trust that is the 4th Reich. 'Tis a pity they are whores.
Smoke and mirrors has been working so far.
Rinse and repeat until it doesn't work.