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Greece Is Now Just A Political Issue
Submitted by Raul Ilargi Meijer via The Automatic Earth blog,
Greece paid off the IMF yesterday with its IMF reserves. Is that a big deal? Whatever you may want to read into this, it’s been obvious for years that Greece needs major debt restructuring if it wants to move forward and have a future as a country -let alone a member of the eurozone-. Instead, the EU/troika anno 2010 decided to bail out German and French and Wall Street banks (I know there’s an overlap)- instead of restructuring the debts they incurred with insane bets on Greece and its EU membership- and put the costs squarely on the shoulders of the Greek population.
This, as I said many times before, was not an economic decision; it was always entirely political. It’s also, by the way, therefore a decision the ECB should have fiercely protested, since it’s independent and a-political and it can’t afford to be dragged into such situations. But the ECB didn’t protest. And ever since the deed was done, Brussels presents it as if it were as unavoidable as Noah building the Ark. It’s not. It’s still just another decision to put banks before people.
And in this case the people have come out on the very short end of a very long stick. That’s what the Greek discussions have been about ever since Syriza was elected, with a substantial majority, to be the government in Athens. And no matter how many times how many people may claim Greece lived above its means for years, it’s obvious that the unemployed and the hungry children and the elderly without health care did not.
The troika says they bailed out the Greek people. The Greek people say only 8-9% of that bailout ever went to them, with the rest going to cover the losses of international systemic banks, and to the utterly corrupt previous Greek political and economic elites, which, coincidentally, the troika was only too happy to strike deals with, so much so that on the eve of the election Greeks were urged to vote the same elites into power once more, even if they were demonstrably to blame for the downfall of the Greek economy.
The troika wants the Syriza government to execute things that run counter to their election promises. No matter how many people point out the failures of austerity measures as they are currently being implemented in various countries, the troika insists on more austerity. Even as they know full well Syriza can’t give them that because of its mandate. Let alone its morals.
It’s a power game. It’s a political game. It always was. But still it has invariably been presented by both the international-press and the troika as an economic problem. Which has us wondering why this statement by ECB member and Austrian central bank head Ewald Nowotny yesterday, hasn’t invited more attention and scrutiny:
ECB’s Nowotny: Greece’s problem isn’t economic
The Greek problem is more a political question than an economic one, a member of the European Central Bank said Monday. Discussions with political parties such as Greece’s left-wing Syriza and Spain’s Podemos may be refreshing by bringing in new ideas, “but at the end of the day, they must [end in] results,” ECB member Ewald Nowotny said, adding discussions are “not about playing games.”
The central banker declined to speculate on how to solve Greece’s financial problem saying the issue “is much more a political question than an economic question.” Mr. Nowotny also doesn’t see the ECB’s role as creating a federalized financial government inside the euro zone. “We cannot substitute the political sphere,” he said.
That seems, from where we’re located, to change the discussion quite a bit. Starting with the role of the ECB itself. Because, for one thing, and this doesn’t seem to be clear yet, if the Greek problem is all politics, as the central bank member himself says, there is no role for a central bank in the discussions. If Greece is a political question, the ECB should take its hands off the whole Greek issue, because as a central bank, it’s independent and that means it’s a-political.
The ECB should provide money for Greece when it asks for it, since there is no other central bank to provide the lender of last resort function for the country. Until perhaps Brussels calls a stop to this, but that in itself is problematic because it would be a political decision forced on an independent central bank once again. It would be better if the ‘union’, i.e. the other members, would make available what Greece needs, but they -seem to- think they’re just not that much of a union.
In their view, they’re a union only when times are good. And/or when all major banks have been bailed out; the people can then fight over the leftover scraps.
The IMF has stated they don’t want to be part of a third Greek bailout. Hardly anyone seems to notice anymore, but that makes the IMF a party to political decisions too. Lagarde et al claim they can’t loan to countries that don’t take the ‘right’ measures, but who decides which measures are the right ones? What’s more, how does the IMF, in that vein, explain the recent loans to Ukraine? Is Kiev doing better than Athens from an economic point of view? Or is this just us sinking into a deepening political quagmire?
Moreover, if we take Mr. Nowotny on his word, why are there still finance ministers and economists involved in the Greek issue negotiations? Doesn’t that only simply lead to confusion and delay? Every single news outlet in the world has taken over German FinMin Schäuble’s comment that Greece should have a referendum if they want, and that maybe that would clarify matters.
But that is not something for Schäuble to comment on, no more than it would be for Greek FinMin Varoufakis to suggest a referendum in Germany. While everyone would consider the latter preposterous, the same everyone takes the former serious. That’s power politics for you, and a press that’s lost track of its position in the world. A press that’s turned into a propaganda mechanism for whoever’s in charge at any given moment in time.
If the Greek issue is now, or perhaps has always been, an overwhelmingly political one, as Nowotny suggests, why do we still have Varoufakis and Dijsselbloem (who only has a degree in agricultural economics, whatever that may be) and former German secret service head Schäuble, discussing matters? After all, why would you leave political issues up to your finance ministers to discuss? That’s not their field.
If it’s all political, shouldn’t it be the political leaders, Merkel and Juncker and Tsipras, talking instead? Something tells us that might not be such a bad idea in any case. Certainly by now. If the ECB itself already says it’s not about money…
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The IMF is a Wall Street weapon of mass squidstraction, the ECB is a giant Teutonic Dildo, the Troika is a ménage au twat and Brussels is a putrid den of Eurobukake.
All of this will one day feature in a Chinese operated wax museum called Madame Tofu.
what doesn't make sense to me is that over spending by Govts. in the first place, necessitated austerity.... so people protesting against that are actually asking for more Govt. spending, which goes back into the same mistakes and opens the doors for more marxism, which is exactly what created the trouble in the first place.... get the bloody Govt. out of the way.
Greece is important because what happens in Greece will eventually happen everywhere.
This is what happens when the voters elect people that promise them free stuff.
Eventually someone has to pay for those promises.
The entire Greece crisis can be explained thus;
Goldman Sachs defrauded the EU in an act of larceny so spectacularly grand that they stole an entire country and they covered their tracks so brilliantly that the very people they robbed are now the ones being persecuted by the authorities.
Goldman did this with full knowledge of Brussels. Brussels needed to hide the Greek mess to be able to pretend they were within their own fake rules and hired Goldman to do the job. However, it's debatable who runs the show, Goldman or Brussels.
You vil obey der Fuhrer!
It must be a "political" problem, because there are never "economic issues" with a money printer in play! /s
Throw those pathetic Greeks out of Europe already.
Throw that pathetic Wolferi out of this forum already. He only has one phrase stuck in his auto-key macro, and keeps repeating it mindlessly while he has wet dreams about servicing Schauble. All power to the Greek people!
Yeah, get the governments out of the way so we can deal with your kind like we did with the John Wayne Second Lieutenants in 'Nam…, ‘n Frag your pasty asses. Oh wait, with the governments out of the way we don't have to frag, we can just hunt you down, call your name out loud and gun you down where you stand..., or where you kneel begging for your miserable life..., if you're quick enough.
Now, go read Thomas Hobbes before I have a flashback and act out on this wish fantasy.
And while you're at it, learn the difference between Fascism and Marxism before I start me a new power totem necklace with one each of your ears and little fingers.
Aaaaah, a feller can dream, can’t he…? sigh…
We are all brainwashed, actually forced fed into accepting a single narrative: a world which is controlled by creditors is always right.
But this is not the only possible narrative for human existence is it?
Who creates and perpetuates this narrative? Cui bono?
Why do we assume that this narrative is inviolate.
Behind every shitty borrower is an equally shitty lender.
Yes, we all know the cliche about lazy assed Mediterranean types who never ever worked an honest day. But was it all truly their fault?
Who told the lazy assed Greeks it was OK to get mega-debt-drunk, the rating agencies, Goldman Sachs, Brussels, their own selfish elites or all of the above?
And who benefits from all the drunkness?
I'll tell you who, the rentier scum suckier class who think it is their turn to collect by grabbing everything on the cheap.
The same scum suckiers who said it was ok, indeed it would be imprudent not, to borrow, borrow, borrow and then borrow more.
Sound familiar? Check your bankster junk mail fellow Greeks.
My, isn't it easy to lend all this paper fiat?
That is what austerity scam boils down to.
Pilferage by privatization.
Right offs? What right offs!
Heads we win tails you lose.
Now who is going to stand up and finally say wrong you bankster hos and fuckheads.
Now is not your golden day of klepto-entitlement.
Time for a new and improved narrative.
One that is not designed to favor the modern Shylock.
Bravo, WB7!
So what then?
Most ZH'ers are more careful than you, they just say to use gold and remove government deposit guarantees and magically everything will work out ... to be against lending is essentially the same as being against capitalism.
Without lending how are resources supposed to be assigned? I can only see two solutions, communism and anarchism. The anarchist one is not realistic, it's almost certain it would just (d-)evolve into capitalism again.
There is a big difference between systemic rape and prudent finance.
Are you one of the few who can understand the difference? I ask because too many have never experienced the down side of an economic cycle and how it punishes and cleanses.
I do not consider 2008 to be an example. Consequently we remain in systemic rape mode.
And it may come as a revelation to you, but creditors are often wrong. But in the current situation, they want everyone to blieve that risk has magically dissappeared. And for the lucky few perhaps it has for the time being.
The rest of us can BOHICA.
Going cold turkey on some drugs can kill you.
Following the exercise, would the Greeks be the sneak castrators ? Or the unexpected dominatrix ?
My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can't believe how easy it was once I tried it out. This is what I do... www.jobs-review.com
All that austerity creates is weakness and subservience. That is the political goal of the Troika over individual countries (except apparently over Germany, which can borrow as much money as it wants and have as much debt as it wants).
Parallel that with the American States, where when attempting to indebt the southern states the Federal government was forced to initiate a war of conquest and murder 2 million of its own citizens.
European unelected technocratic so called leaders want the same result. But previous wars of conquest have failed and they are pasty weaklings who WOULD sacrifice their children to get what they want ... but the citizens of the countries have no stomach for them and are uninspired by their megalomania. So, instead of wars of conquest the megalocrats attempt to deceive and conquer through debt slavery.
If it is truelly political, ie all about Russia and the U.S., we shall see just who is in charge in this world order we live in, the military rulers or the banks rulers
For ZH to post an edit by a man who says : The troika wants the Syriza government to execute things that run counter to their election promises. No matter how many people point out the failures of austerity measures as they are currently being implemented in various countries, the troika insists on more austerity. Even as they know full well Syriza can’t give them that because of its mandate. Let alone its morals... is a subject of interest in itself !
ZH has always been an advocate of AUSTERITY. But here we are saying austerity should FIRST be applied to those who created the problem : the TBTF banksta cabal ! Not to the people and their trickle down 8% ! AKA it should first be applied to those who RUN this world and their financial hitmen!
Now where on God's earth do you find Rulemakers who THINK that the rules they make ALSO apply to THEM as the ELITES???
Hahaha, The elites have always felt that the rules apply to the OTHERS not to them wearing the insignia of Purple hew.
The conundrum that current first world is faced with is forever the same that faces men who say one thing and do its opposite COME WHAT MAY --- which in today's world is a truly POLITICAL POWER cul-de-sac, inexorable legacy of the PAST-- : the Economic HITMAN construct that has been imposed by 60 years of Pax Americana leadership; since 1953 and CIA coup making in Iran etc. and World Bank and American Aid sale of post Korean war hardware as planned obsolescence to all would be army regimes like Soeharto and Pakistan, Iran etc. (you name it they did it along with their buddies the Soviets playing the same arms bazar games); has led to this toxic mix of perpetual asymmetric wars; now compounded by protecting the Oil Patch since BW revoke and Dear Henry's successful poke of making Saud military protection and Petrodollar "our money your problem" debt print scam regime the MAIN plank of US Massive Military Supremacy and shock and awe hegemony all over the world since NAM crucifiction days.
One hellva spree of Mad Max world dystopia to save USD/Oil guzzling consumerist model/MIIC supremacy at the expense of all and sundry, now classified as the adjustable variable of sheeple deniers all over the world ---including if you please since Reaganomics/Thatcherist days-- all the prolo-lower middle classes of delusional democratic bent (fools and useful idiots definition, who believe in progress! ) of first world! Our ZH forum is full of those who buy into this philosophy AS LONG as it doesn't APPLY to them !
The very people, the hardworking salt of the Earth, that those high and mighty one percenters are pledged to protect and serve as the politically elected, or as the leaders of civil society corporates, also as citizens of nation-states whose armies they and their second echelons command in name of "freedom McDonald fries" and "Coca Cola has to thrive" !
What an about turn this world is now seeing as the West goes virally "Boko Haram" full blast as its global, neo-con model destroys the eco-systems and populations of the globe (aided and abetted by their unscrupulous paid hirelings, all preselected, corpocracy culture packed and delivered as leaders of surrogate emerging nations) ... and the people of the Parthenon are now paying with the blood of their innocents, as will all those others who think that the bell in Athens or Syrac does not toll for them.
This is a much bigger issue than just Greece.
"And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them." Isaiah 3:4
Common sense is not present in our governmental houses of today. Like a child's mind, they give away what they do not have, and obligate their own children to pay for their wants and whims. Stop and look at the words and actions of our so-called leaders; their words have no more meaning then and child who does not know right from wrong, and their actions are that of a spoiled child. - Roger Christopherson
Those who truly BELIEVE will sacrifice anything and everything.... except themselves
Socialism is never for the socialists.
I hewed the purple instead of coloring it with the right hue !
my bad!
So, how much of a haircut should my parents pension fund take on Greece's debt while we are just giving them money before we can ask them to restructure their economy?
Do we have to take a 100% haircut AND save their banks AND give them money so their government can keep their campaign promises?
Central Banks are apolitical? Yeah, and so are Supreme Courts. What fuckin' planet did you grow up on?
+1000 for WB VII's comment. He's up late tonight. And in rare form. Good to see you up so late with the rest of us peasants...remember, I take umbrage with the term "serf". Maybe it's because I surf.
Vassal may be a better word choice.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vassal
Like the billions of words used and written daily, however, all are subject to change.
This automatic earth guy is a clown.
The reason Greece can't be let of the hook is because then Spain, Portugal etc etc etc will demand the same.
You need to draw the line in the sand somewhere - and Greece is it.
there is never a line in the sand - the sea sees to it.
the divine right over everyone's life or death of the kings of persia and the pharaohs was the line in the sand before the greeks came about and started the "western civilisation"
Dijsselbloem (who only has a degree in agricultural economics, whatever that may be)??
A degree in 'agricultural economics' means that he knows the price of tulips. Supposedly!
Dieselboom has a degree in pig farming. Look it up.
Tulip harvesting and methane production...that figures! It's as if the world is just a metaphor.
I can tell you I'd hire someone with a degree in agricultural economics way before someone with a degree in... well most of them. and before a non-Nobel Price winner like Dr. Krugman, or an expert in financial derivatives
What if you knew that the agricultural economist you're about to hire has never in his life worked with agricultural economics or, god forbid, agriculture itself?
Better to hire someone with a common sense and no university degree than any of the abovementioned Ivy League monkeys living in their own parallel reality.
There is one simple truth that this article completely ignores, and which blows its argument right out of the water. Nobody wants to see people in poverty, but the fact is that those previous corrupt political elites in Greece, on whose shoulders this article lays the original blame for the country's plight, were democratically elected. The people voted them into power knowing full well that they were corrupt and incompetent, in return for short term personal gain (fat state pensions, guaranteed jobs for life, early retirement and so forth), all paid for on borrowed money. The bloated public sector,paid for on credit, ensured enough votes for whichever party promised them the most. Corrupt political elite? Yes. Economic elite? Yes (because of the corrupt political elite.) But the problem doesn't end there; unpalatable as it may sound, it goes right down to the roots of Greek society.
Perhaps it is a Karmic payback for past actions?
http://www.gay-art-history.org/gay-history/gay-customs/greek-homosexuali...
I realize it is a Straw Man argument and would never dare to try to use it.
Just thinking and typing out loud.
Using Occam, it may be the go to explaination.
Your post was a complete waste of time. Why'd you even bother?
Isn't it long past time to give that shit a rest? I mean, it's so strange how folks like you just NEVER stop thinking about gay sex...what is UP with that? No matter what the topic is, ya'll come along and throw some more gay sex into the mix. Most straight people never think about straight sex as often as some of you obsess over gay sex.
There is something very disturbing about this obsession over what other people are doing to each other sexually in the privacy of their own homes.
Unless gay folk are deliberatly having sex right in front of you, the only way it can bother you is if YOU keep THINKING on it...so why are you DOING that?
It was a thought process that didn't involve ethnic banker slurs or politico ethics rants or religious zealot rhetoric.
Just another form of tyranny, elite over helpless or hapless as the case may be, with the majority uninvolved but affected.
To address your comment on Karma though, on your level,
Project much?
If I did misunderstand you, my apologies...
There are two things that come up frequently here...comments about gays, and comments that reflect the ongoing right/left thing. Sometimes entire comment sections are dominated by back and forth nastiness and insult. They both irk me for some reason, and I will frequently say something about it. Nothing personal.
I see them as divisive, and "divide and conquer" is probably the most potent and successful weapons TPTB HAVE against the rest of us. Although there are other divisive things out there, these two particular ones seem to be more successful. Perhaps that's why they bother me so much, I see them as more of an actual threat.
At some point we've got to stop playing along with this. Let's take care of the BIG problem we all have, which is financial tyranny. THEN we can go back to insulting each other.
But you know what? I'd bet money that if we WERE to eliminate the big problem, many if not most of those other issues would sort themselves out pretty quickly with little harm to anyone.
Probably obsessed with anal but defensive about it.
There is very little democracy on this planet.
Look at the USA for example. Did you forget hanging chads, Gore actually won the popular vote but Bush W muscled his way in.
Short memories....
Greeks potentially get to fuck the troika and other power elites around the world. Something that Americans and other Europeans are too weak and scared to. Which righteous society are you holding out as one we should all be looking to for leadership in standing up for our rights? Americans?
Iceland or Bhutan
there is only one solution-default and rebuild the pieces of value for a more efficient economy.
but what will most likely happen is described above by falak, a fucking muddled mess of deception to placate the average person with the same outcome, your labor for my gain. Quite simple, game of monetary control for your limited freedom, just enough so you and i don't revolt. can be seen around the world under many named systems, primarily democracy, which is a vote that means zilch...
Get set for 2 more months of Greece negotiations before TSFHTF – and there’s a good chance it will.
If you look at the time-line at bottom you can see Greece has a number of payments to make to the IMF. The Greeks will find a way to make all these payments – by hook or by crook. There will be no default to the IMF. The total IMF payments between now and mid-July total €2,648,142,243.
However, the Greeks feel they are being screwed by the European Union/ European Central Bank (EU/ECB – basically Germany) – if you look two months down the road into July/ August you can see some massive payments due to the ECB/EIB. Over a period of a month Greece owes €6,669,680,000 – far larger than what they owe the IMF. What they’re arguing about at the moment is a disbursement of a loan worth €7,200,000,000! Basically that would just cover what they owe in July/ August – which basically means if they get this loan they can pay off the ECB/EIB! And then straight back to square 1.
Why bother? Why not just stiff them?
Greece has just been invited by Russia to join the BRICS bank (The New Development Bank) – overnight.
https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/greece-invited-join-brics-bank-093028319.html
Guess what? There’s a huge BRICS summit in Russia in July. When? July 9-10, 2015.
Why am I sending this to you? I’d suggest that the longer these Greece/EU negotiations drag on without resolution towards July, the greater the chance there will really be chaos in international markets in July – particularly in Europe as it looks increasingly likely Greece will stick the middle finger up to Europe.
Forewarned is forearmed.
You can throw into this Greek PM Tsipras going to an economic summit in St. Petersburg, Russia hosted by Mr. Putin in mid-June (June 18-20) and also the upcoming negotiations about extending EU sanctions against Russia (also in June). If negotiations with the ECB/EU aren’t progressing by now you can expect a Greek veto on extending these sanctions almost certainly.
Greece has been invited to become a member of the development bank of the BRICS economies, including Russia and China, which is seeking to become a counterweight to the IMF, a government source said Monday.
The invitation came during a telephone conversation between Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras and Russia's deputy finance minister Sergei Storchak, the government source said in a note to the media.
This announcement came late Monday as Greece was meeting with its eurozone partners in Brussels to try reach a deal with its EU-IMF creditors that would release the 7.2 billion euros ($8 billion) remaining in its bailout programme, which expires at the end of June.
Tsipras called the bank's invitation "a happy surprise" and expressed interest, saying he would "study the proposal in detail," the statement said.
The Greek premier will discuss the BRICS bank with top representatives at an economic forum in Saint Petersburg on June 18-20, the source added.
http://graphics.wsj.com/greece-debt-timeline/
Individual Repayments
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Creditor
Due Date
Amount
Description
Rate
Treasury bill holders
May 15, 2015
€1,400,000,000
Short-term treasury bills
2.50%
IMF
June 5, 2015
€301,167,990
Loan under the IMF's first bailout program for Greece, in 2010.*
Treasury bill holders
June 12, 2015
€1,600,000,000
Short-term treasury bills
2.70%
IMF
June 11, 2015
€652,904,309
To pay back the money Greece borrowed to pay an earlier IMF loan (May 12)
IMF
June 12, 2015
€338,813,989
Loan under the IMF's first bailout program for Greece, in 2010.*
Treasury bill holders
June 12, 2015
€2,000,000,000
Short-term treasury bills
2.15%
IMF
June 16, 2015
€564,689,981
Loan under the IMF's first bailout program for Greece, in 2010.*
Treasury bill holders
June 19, 2015
€1,600,000,000
Short-term treasury bills
2.70%
IMF
June 19, 2015
€338,813,989
Loan under the IMF's first bailout program for Greece, in 2010.*
Treasury bill holders
July 10, 2015
€2,000,000,000
Short-term treasury bills
2.30%
IMF
July 13, 2015
€451,751,985
Loan under the IMF's first bailout program for Greece, in 2010.*
Treasury bill holders
July 17, 2015
€1,000,000,000
Short-term treasury bills
2.70%
ECB
July 20, 2015
€2,095,880,000
Bonds held by ECB exempted from the 2012 default
3.70%
ECB
July 20, 2015
€1,360,500,000
Bonds held by national central banks exempted from the 2012 default
3.70%
EIB
July 20, 2015
€25,000,000
Bonds held by the European Investment Bank; exempted from the 2012 default
3.70%
Treasury bill holders
Aug. 7, 2015
€1,000,000,000
Short-term treasury bills
2.75%
ECB
Aug. 20, 2015
€3,020,300,000
Bonds held by ECB exempted from the 2012 default
6.10%
ECB
Aug. 20, 2015
€168,000,000
Bonds held by national central banks exempted from the 2012 default
6.10%
judge dread-great commentary. it is a human condition of path of least resistence, preyed on by politicians for votes til the debt can not carry the usery. hmmm, sounds familiar. it is how this ends that we watch with extreme anxiety, because it will determine our very existence...
Greece has now slid into to this top ten. But who would they replace?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuhywNUb22Y
The Troika is not much different than Stalin or Adolf.
The people mean nothing, the planet means nothing, God means nothing. It is all about money = power.
Yes folks I mentioned God. In this planet of lies, deceit, corruption, garbage, pollution, obesity and self serving, there is one thing left I hope makes a difference in our direction as we send garbage into space to send porn and propaganda and spy techniques back to us.
There is more to life than Troika and Brussels or DC or bullshit about Bin Laden or lyng presidents or compromised former Secretary of States who are nothing but lackeys for those against what God stands for.
There is NEVER going to be a Grexit.
If there is a place where I can put a bet on this, I would bet a house on this.
Blopper- I wouldn't bet the house. There will be a Greek exit or a German exit.
No worries.
If a Grexit takes place, then the ECB (and ultimately the IMF, BIS, and the Rothschilds) would lose multibillions if not trillions from it.
If I have to bet 2 houses, I still would not worry, because I know the Rothschilds are indirectly behind my back.
do you have a 2nd house to bet?
you've already bet one house with me, you better not be betting on margin with houses you don't own now?
They are behind you and they are F'ing you
Wait, the house of the devil Roth has your back ?
I THINK I know what you meant, but do you really BANK on the assumption they have not already taken the position AHEAD of you ?
There was a bookie in England, but they stopped taking bets ... could have had 50% gain if you had bet in February and Greece stayed in the Euro till end this year.
Assuming the UK didn't have a referendum in the meantime to exit and destroyed the pound of course :)
The IMF and EU want political control.
Control of the money is how they do it.
"Give me control of a natins money and I care not who makes the laws"
- M.A. Rothschild
"The ECB should provide money for Greece when it asks for it, since there is no other central bank to provide the lender of last resort function for the country."
I'd say Raul is being either disingenuos or very, very ignorant about how national and central banks are set up
a national bank is traditionally set up as the Lender of Last Resort of the national banking system, not of the national government
further, nearly all central banks are set up to intervene on the secundary markets of the sovereign bonds, and generally have restrictions regarding the "primary market"
Raul is writing here as if all this was never relevant. well, it is. I'd say disingenuos. oh, no mention of Q€? lol
In my book, "political" means "who gets enough money to get voted in next time" and "fuck the rest of the people and the problems they might have". In other words, political issues have been fucking us up as far back as I can remember. I do feel I am in a position to say fuck off with all political issues, it all comes down to the money involved, whether Raul likes it or not.
+1 imo Raul belongs to the category of people that invoke "politics" the very moment they prefer not to use... math. or logic
failures of austerity ......WTF...what is wrong with just spending what you make...why does a government always have to have a deficit to spend more than they make...its to buy votes....Austerity is what it is..spending what you make...and maybe even saving some for a few bad years....that is good management and government
How unreasonable; what if they want something they can't afford?
"No matter how many people point out the failures of austerity measures as they are currently being implemented in various countries, the troika insists on more austerity"
Uh oh. Now we're *really* into stupid territory.
As if the solution to debt is spending and spending ever more?!
Go join the Democrats or other Communist Parties around the world, fool.
I agree what a stupid statement....
Soon there will only be bankers, politicians and prepaid debit cardholders.
Central Banks exist to bail out and support private banks.
National Banks exist to support and bail out the population.
Both types of banks can create money as credit. Credit is loaned into existence money.
Of the two types of bank, a National Bank can issue state fiat that is not loaned into existence. A National Bank can spend into existence.
For example, U.S. Treasury issued State Fiat during Civil War, otherwise known as Lincoln's Greenbacks. During WW2 the Reconstruction Finance Corporation spent $50B of new money, which then created wealth. Although much of the wealth was blown up.
Canada, 1938-1974 issued State Fiat, without debt, building out national railroads, interstate like highways, waterways, funding education and medical, etc. They had no price inflation. Canada's BOC was a Crown Bank, with its shares held in trust by MOF (minister of finance).
Bottom line: Private credit as money channels incorrectly, it has usury attached, it causes sector inflation, it causes sawtooth inflation and then depression.
Mostly private bank credit as money causes Oligarchy.
When private banks issue "their" fiat, they consider it theirs. Since it is loaned into existence, they get to claim it as theirs as Creditor. Think about it, when you loan somebody something, you are loaning what is "yours."
He who has the money power, controls the world.
The money power should belong to the people, not unelected oligarchy. The people should have their own money, not a money type claimed by bankers and Oligarchy.
www.sovereignmoney.eu
USG fucked-up America - the same is happening in Europe
In fact, it is all about the economy !
To have Political Power you must have the prospect of real economic strength.
Without economic strength, there is no real political power.
I think that all Political Power in this world is only possible through real economic strength.
A strong Economy is the basis of any strong Government ( or individual ) .
Political Policies without a robust economy are just pipedreams and Ideas with no real base in reality.
In fact Political Ideas that are not backed by good economy are corrupt and bankrupt,
as we see in Greece today....
Its nice to have those lofty Ideals, as long as others pay for those lofty free livestyles and dreams of free entitlements
and free and cheap loans to make everyone rich beyond their means to make the impossible seem possible.
So no, I don't agree with the hogwash that the bankers are at fault and they ripped of Greece.
It is the successive corrupt Greek Governments that made Greece bankrupt by theft and waste of the greek economy.
You borrow, you get into debt, you fucked up, you pay for it...
We all are responsible for the actions we take.
So be careful what Government you elect or whom you trust.
because it is all about managing the economy !
Everything is really all about economic power and strength.
WR;)
So, how does Greece acquire Euros? They must borrow ALL of them from a private bank.
These Euros come with debt attached, and usury.
It is impossible to run an economy with all debt money. The math doesn't work.
The math is something like walking down a cone, where the opening gets wider and wider. The future is in front of you, and the cone is opening more and more, asking more and more from the future. What comes from the future, must be passed backward to the past, what is behind you.
More and more credit must come from the future to pay for past debts.
Markets and economies use money, therefore the money type matters a lot.
In fact, the money type predicates an economy. Governments come under sway of the money power. Greeces former politicans were not controlled by their electorate, but instead by foreign money power (credit outside of Greece).
After WW2 Churchill spilled the beans. He mentioned that Germany had exited the "international" credit system by trading goods outside of international debt/Gold system. In this way, international capital could not take their cut. This was the true cause of war.
mefobills, your argumentation... leaks
first, the old Drachmas were all converted into EUR
second, those old Drachmas all came from the Bank of Greece. which isn't a private bank as such, it's a partially state-owned bank with legal restrictions (like most national banks)
third, EUR don't come from a private bank, nowadays, they come from a confederation of national banks. of which the National Bank of Greece is a member
fourth, most EUR aren't issued by the ECB, they are created... by banks. for example Greek Banks issuing loans against collateral, for example land
Global bankers look ready to mop up Greece on the cheap
12 May 2015, by Brett Arends (MarketWatch)
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/global-bankers-look-ready-to-mop-up-greece-on-the-cheap-2015-05-12
IMF same exact four-step program:
1.0 Privatization 'Briberization.'
2.0 IMF/World Bank capital market deregulation allows investment capital to flow in and out the "Hot Money" cycle.
3.0 Market-Based Pricing, a fancy term for raising prices on food, water and cooking gas
4.0 IMF and World Bank call their "poverty reduction strategy": Free Trade- "The IMF riot."
http://www.gregpalast.com/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold/
The real "political issue" isn't Greece, it's the fundamental truth of which Greece just happens to be the most immediate example:
The democratic welfare state is not a viable social model. It is doomed to insolvency always and everywhere.
Once investors realize this, democratic welfare states will crumble as fast as communist prison states did in 1989.