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Seymour Hersh Slams Establishment Media: "I Am Not Backing Off Anything I Said"
Authored by Isaac Chotiner, originally posted at Slate.com,
In a blockbuster 10,000-word story for the London Review of Books this week, longtime New Yorker investigative journalist Seymour Hersh called into question the official account of the American raid that killed Osama Bin Laden, and argued that what is arguably seen as the apex of Barack Obama’s presidency is actually built on a lie.
Hersh’s piece claims that Bin Laden was being held prisoner by the Pakistani military and intelligence service (the ISI), who were using him as a means to control Taliban and al-Qaida elements, and hoping to use him as leverage in their relationship with the United States. According to Hersh, who relied largely on an anonymous intelligence source, the Obama administration found out that Pakistan had Bin Laden, and eventually convinced Pakistani military leaders to allow a raid on the compound where Bin Laden was being held. The plan, Hersh writes, was to say publicly that Bin Laden was killed not in the raid but in a drone strike. The White House, however, supposedly broke this deal because of the political value of making the details of the raid public.
Hersh’s story has been much debated over the past several days, with many calling it into question and (a comparable few) others applauding its willingness to undercut the official narrative. NBC News and the AFP have both backed up small elements of Hersh’s story, although both outlets have also called other elements of his piece into question (and NBC later backed away from its original reporting). And no news source has supported Hersh’s largest claim—that the president lied about the raid.
I spoke to Hersh by phone this week. Here is a transcript of our conversation, which has been slightly condensed and edited for clarity.
Isaac Chotiner: If the plan until the night of the raid was to use the cover story that he had not been killed in a raid but in a drone strike, then why have the raid at all? Why not just have the Pakistanis kill him? Why risk Obama’s presidency?
Seymour Hersh: Of course there is no answer there because I haven’t talked to any of the principals. But I can just give you what the people who were in the process believed to be so, which is that for [Gens.] Pasha and Kayani, the chance of something like that getting leaked out would be devastating. America was then running at about 8 percent popularity in Pakistan, and Bin Laden was running at 60, 70 percent. He was very popular. [Editor’s note: This 2010 opinion poll says that Bin Laden’s popularity was at 18 percent in Pakistan.] You couldn’t just take a chance, because if someone ratted you out—I can only give you a basic theory.
Chotiner: It just seems like a huge raid with Pakistani complicity brings up just as many problems for the Pakistanis.
Hersh: If you believe, as a smart guy said to me, if anybody, if anyone didn’t think the president was going to fuck [the Pakistani military] they are out of their mind. He was always going to fuck them.
Chotiner: OK. In your piece you call into question that the Americans got valuable documents in the raid. But Ayman al-Zawahiri, the current head of al-Qaida, himself seemed to confirm that this was true. How do you handle that contradiction?
Hersh: I handle it pretty easy. [Laughs] The issue for me is the treasure trove issue. Did the SEALS take out piles of computers? There were claims they found computers and disks and sticks, what do they call those sticks?
Chotiner: I don’t know.
Hersh: You’re not as old as I am. You should know that. Anyway, the SEALs mission was to go kill the guy. They did pick up some papers, but most of the papers were delivered by the ISI. He was a prisoner under their control. He wasn’t beaten and could walk around but it was a prison. He couldn’t get out. They kept encouraging him to write stuff. And he did. But I am bothered by the contradictions. [The] president said it was a treasure trove so there had to be a treasure trove. Is it real? I don’t know. It was used in a trial. Is it real? Is it not? I don’t know.
Chotiner: You seem slightly annoyed that Obama double-crossed the Pakistanis.
Hersh: Double-crossed is your word.
Chotiner: OK fine. I want to understand why you seem bothered by that, aside from the lying. Turning our back on the worst elements in Pakistan who we have long nurtured doesn’t seem so bad. We have supported them forever.
Hersh: Why do we do that?
Chotiner: Because we see it as being in our own interest.
Hersh: Well no, we do it for nukes.
Chotiner: Fine, we see that as being in our interest.
Hersh: In my experience in the last 30 years, one of the major worries was about the “Islamic bomb,” about Pakistan. If you knew the lengths to which we go, working with the ISI, to make sure some ultranationalist or ultrajihadist doesn’t get [control of nukes].
Chotiner: Yes, although you could argue that if we hadn’t nurtured these elements for so long, the country would be less of a threat.
Hersh: You could argue anything.
Chotiner: I want to—
Hersh: Swing away fella.
Chotiner: You sent me—
Hersh: You probably don’t know that NBC reported, and now they have reported it on one of these dopey afternoon shows with that woman, what’s her name, the NBC woman who claims to have some knowledge of foreign policy, married to Alan Greenspan.
Chotiner: Andrea Mitchell.
Hersh: She’s comical. On her show the administration is acknowledging walk-ins but saying the walk-ins aren’t necessarily linked to Bin Laden.
Chotiner: The AFP piece, which you sent me approvingly, says the same thing, that there is no evidence the walk-in led to Bin Laden, and that the walk-in did not even know the target was Bin Laden.
Hersh: Uh huh, OK.
Chotiner: OK but here is my question about journalism, since you have been doing this longer than I have—
Hersh: Oh poor you, you don’t know anything. It is amazing you can speak the God’s English.
Chotiner: Are you hoping with this piece to say that you made no mistakes, or that OK there were mistakes because I am getting the ball rolling? You have quoted two pieces very approvingly, from NBC and AFP, that differ from key points in your own story. I want to know how accurate you think your story now is.
Hersh: [Laughs loudly] Well I will tell you one thing: At one point a copy editor in England confronted me about the SEALs training in Nevada and changed it to Utah, and the line made it because according to her they were sort of the same.
Chotiner: The AFP piece contradicts your piece but you aren’t running around worried about that.
Hersh: I sent it approvingly because it crossed my desk and it does say there were walk-ins. [Laughs] You can read it any way you want. The White House has been very clever about this. They have gone after me personally. They don’t like me boo hoo hoo. But they have been very careful to hedge everything, they quote Peter Bergen. Bergen or Berger, is that his name?
Chotiner: Bergen.
Hersh: They quote him. He views himself as the trustee of all things Bin Laden.
Chotiner: I just want to talk to you about your piece and journalism.
Hersh: What difference does it make what the fuck I think about journalism? I don’t think much of the journalism that I see. If you think I write stories where it is all right to just be good enough, are you kidding? You think I have a cavalier attitude on throwing stuff out? Are you kidding? I am not cavalier about what I do for a living.
Chotiner: I don’t think you are cavalier. That was not my question.
Hersh: Whatever it is, it’s an impossible question. It’s almost like you are asking me to say that there are flaws in everybody. Yes. Do I acknowledge that not everybody can be perfect? But I am not backing off anything I said.
Chotiner: Well let’s talk about sources. A lot of the reporting that got us into the last stupid war was based on bad and often anonymous sources. Is there a problem with journalists having a limited number of sources, just generally speaking? Is this a problem? With unnamed sources—
Hersh: Are you kidding me? Unnamed sources? You are smarter than that. This is too boring.
Chotiner: Let me finish my question and then you can yell at me.
Hersh: I am done yelling.
Chotiner: Is there some sort of journalistic standard that reporters should try to meet to prevent more errors?
Hersh: Let me say something to you. There was a practice at the New Yorker that continued at the London Review of Books. The reason I like the LRB is that it isn’t tied down to Americana. It is more open to being ... In Europe people think this story makes sense. There is not the quibbling. It is a different approach. By that I mean that the view of America is less cheery abroad but the standards are the same. The people at the London Review knew whom I talked to. It is the same at the New Yorker. David Remnick knows who I talk to. I do have sources, which is a problem for a lot of people that don’t.
Chotiner: OK well it seems like the upshot of what you are saying, and correct me if this is wrong—
Hersh: I just said what I said. I don’t want to hear what the upshot is. If you have another question then ask it. This is going on too long. I am too old and too cranky and too tired. I have been doing this fucking thing for a day. I told you, I warned you, that I am really irritable.
Chotiner: OK so if both places check your sources, and the New Yorker—
Hersh: Now you are restating it. In Europe it is an easier path. The notion that somehow America—I have one slight layer less. Believe me. I don’t know if you know who Mary-Kay Wilmers is. You probably don’t.
Chotiner: She is the editor of the LRB.
Hersh: Do you know how smart she is?
Chotiner: I have heard stories.
Hersh: She is fantastic. She is as good as they say. They go gaga over her. She was married to Stephen Frears. She is tenacious. But believe me this piece took a long time to get into print. A lot of questions. A lot of nasty questions.
Chotiner: OK—
Hersh: Don’t turn this into some sort of profound anti-American statement.
Chotiner: It seems like you are hinting the New Yorker rejected it for reasons having to do with politics.
Hersh: Would you care to hear the truth? Would you care to hear something that didn’t come from Vox, whoever Vox is? I am not sure you are that interested in it. I am doing a book. Within four or five days I hear that there are problems with the [official] OBL story. A lot of problems. And I have good friends in Pakistan. Really good friends. I go there a lot. Hold on, I just walked out of a two-room suite and the fucking movie crew. The fucking movie crew just leaves the desk. God dammit. [A film crew had been in Hersh’s office.] Anyway. First of all, you may get some suggestion of this. Maybe I am not an easy guy.
Chotiner: I wouldn’t dream of suggesting that.
Hersh: There was a point with the New Yorker where I thought they should rename the fucking magazine the Seymour Hersh Weekly. David Remnick has his own theories and opinions. He is not cowed by me. We have a lot of fights. We have a lot of disagreements. I don’t find that so shocking. I like him a lot, he is brilliant, he is great. I think he is even a better writer than editor. I have always been a freelancer. I always work for myself.
Chotiner: I get that.
Hersh: So, all that happens is I tell him about the story, and his initial approach was to say do a blog item. Go fuck yourself! A blog? I have done a couple blogs when it is 1,000 words but this is worth more. At that point it was very early. So I was on contract for a book and said fuck it … You want to make a lot out of it? David always says he welcomes another view. I am the guy who said fuck it, I will do what I want to do. [Editor’s note: Other news sources have reported that the New Yorker declined to publish a version of the story.]
[Hersh picks up other phone]: Yeah. Yeah. Oh no, fuck no … I don’t want to do it there! Go fuck—
Hersh: You there?
Chotiner: Yes.
Hersh: Fucking TV interview sets up in the hall of my office building. It’s a lawyer’s building.
Chotiner: I was just asking—
Hersh: You want to write about this totally tedious shit? Yes, I am a huge pain in the ass. I am the one that decided to publish it wherever the hell I please. That’s the story. You want to listen to hall gossip about me? Go ahead. [Sarcastic voice] It is so immensely important to so many people to know where I published. I can’t believe it.
Chotiner: Can I tell you why?
Hersh: I don’t want to hear why. You think there is a different standard in London?
Chotiner: I wish you would listen.
Hersh: All right, maybe I will listen, but I gotta hang up.
Chotiner: If people here are turning down stories because of certain politics—you yourself said it was easier in Europe—that is a story that should be written.
Hersh: Now you said the first intelligent thing you have said. If you had asked whether he didn’t run this because he is in love with Obama and all that stuff that people think, no … It is a very good question. Although we have huge disagreements. My children and I have huge disagreements. I have a huge disagreement with my dog. We have a lot of disagreements and there are times when he will call me and I will not answer the call. Oh fuck hold on. He always has said to me he welcomes any information and it was I who said fuck it.
Chotiner: OK but you have talked about the New Yorker’s Americana and said my question was a good one, so is there something to it?
Hersh: I think it is a great question.
Chotiner: So what do you think of it?
Hersh: I just told you what I think. In the case of the Bin Laden story, he is open for anything. It was I who made the decision.
Chotiner: I feel like you are telling me two different things. One is that you get less pressure in Europe, and the other is that this story would have been fine at the New Yorker.
Hersh: So fine, I am glad you are confused. Write whichever one makes you happy.
Chotiner: OK.
Hersh: I don’t mean to yell at you but I feel good doing it. Goodbye.
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You should back off Hersh and tell the truth, no ISI BS.. Bin Laden died in 2001 or 2002!
Maybe Seymour should go back to wtc 7, Shanksville, and the Pentagon MSM lies.
WTC7 -- This is an Orange - YouTubeI guess we're all supposed to applaude "limited hangout" Hersh? One BS story for another....
Yeah, how did a poor Cesna pilot manage to fly a 757 pilot, feet above the ground at 500 miles an hour and penetrate 3 rings of the Pentagon with an ALUMINUM FUSELAGE. Come the fuck on...
What does Osama Bin Laden have to do with 911 anyway? The whole narrative is bullshit to start with.
Osama was hanging out in Abattobad after hanging up his jihad gig. Obama was so concerned about Bin Laden and Jihadis everywhere that he got a Muslim burial out at sea. Cough.
Typical PSYOP targeting the brute and ignorant masses in America...Hersh wants only to revive his book sales.
The American populace is easy to manipulate and subdue; Americans are extremely gullible and incapable to think for themselves (trained not to think critically).
In fact, Leo Strauss' categorization of society seems to apply to the American populace: The Vulgar Many
The Vulgar Many, are lovers of wealth and pleasure. They are selfish, slothful, and indolent. They can be inspired to rise above their brutish existence only by fear of impending death or catastrophe.
People as uninformed and as gullible as Americans have no future. Americans are a dead people that history is about to run over. Dr. Paul Craig Roberts
RJ Hillhouse reported the exact same story in 2011, with different sources;
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/05/11/former-professor-reported-basics-hershs-bin-laden-story-2011-seemingly-different-sources/
It was printed outside the USA, but apparently was ignored locally - no great surprise there.
She claims that Hersch plagerized her story.
Very interesting...
As francis_sawyer used to say [& got kicked off of ZH 12x for sayin]...
"When it inevitably becomes jew vs. jew, ALL hilarity ensues"...
So ~ Does this mean he was WRONG [or, are we just bucking for #13 now]?
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2015/05/light-posting-several-issues.html#c...
Here is where my curiosity is focused. So we all know the ZH regulars, right. We know they are house niggas, I mean Thugs, right. It's known far and wide so STFU.
The ZH regulars, the house Thugs, were all throwing Hersh under the bus in the first article.
ZH is Establishment Media now? OK....
Pretty much...
I tried to say that the other day b4 all the other shit...
But 'homey come latelies' round here still haven't gotten WISDOM yet...
Noticed the massive increase in MSM links being posted by the metallic haberdashery crowd as "evidence" since this story broke? The implications are profound.
Hey, well, here's some UNSCHOOLED IDIOTS, dancin' 2 the tune of the beat of...
WTF? OMG!... LIKE... I DUNNO!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gRSeJRN8Bo
Mr. 2 weeks 6 days... did Alex Jones or Brian Roberts send you?
Funny how truth causes symptoms similar to jock itch in trolls.
what makes this story so bizarre is that mister laden was in fact killed by vince foster
I thought the sent Ken Lay since he was living just down the hall.
Errata: "I Am Not Backing Up Anything I Said"
we shot him dead and dumped his body in the ocean so you would have no doubts. trust us. we did it. for you America, fuck yeah!
Osama Bin Laden = Emmanuel Goldstein
I don't believe a damn thing about him, and no joo is going to convince me otherwise.
He wasn't dead in 2001. How could he have possibly made so many videos later?
WTF is with Hersh being a Jew have to do with anything? Israeli and the neocon Jews in the U.S. HATE him - probably more than Obama hates him.
The interview is especially entertaining because it was done by Isaac Chotiner, a neocon Jew. But you all knew that, right?
By the way, here's what else Chotiner writes for Slate.
WTF is with Hersh being a Jew have to do with anything?
How long you got?
Anything that comes off the lips or the pen or the keyboard of a jew MERITS a discerning 2nd glance... Just sayin'
A 35-year first-glance over his lifetime of work tells me everything I need to know about him. I don't need a second glance... All the right people hate him. Just sayin'
Thanks for the link Paveway. I'm thinking someone who is such an expert on James Bond should have great insight into the OBL cloak and dagger story.
That said, ranking Honey Rider at #12 of the Bond Gals is a travesty. Clear cut #1!!!
Absolutely. Even Bond was impressed with her amazing set of shells in Dr. No...
cohen and cohen
they fall out all the time
but in general only slaughter the goy
check out the talmud dude it wicked
Kabuki Theater to distract the sheeple.
Let me know when Obama Bin Lyin' & A Shrub Named Bush are attacking published claims attracting eyeballs that Osama (aka CIA asset Tim Osmon) died 13 years ago from kidney disease.
Since the typical Dialysis Patient lives for 3.6 Years after starting the treatment, for Osama to stick around until Obama took Office, do you think OBL
1A) Found a Kidney Donor (presume there's plenty of money to bribe through any waiting list),
or
1B) Ended up getting "cured" from his Kidney Disease?
Looks lke we might be witnessing the fruits of Foul Play, where Dubya's Sith Masters negotiate a truce with Obama and Company:
2A) Obama and Company do not expose/prosecute Dubya and his Sith Lord Cheney's PetroDollar-MIC Daisy-Chain Geopolitical Racketeers (e.g., PNAC and Halliburton). Obama winds down Iraq and Afghanistan Warfronts "slowly and gently"(it is, after all, a screw job), allowing them to be turned into Merc-Controled "Oil/Mineral Extraction and Drug Trafficking(Heroin & Cannabis)" Bitches, er, Colonies,
while
2B) Dubya and his Sith Lords hand over Osama's Body(If dead, died too early for the Petrodollar-MIC to take advantage of IRQ/AFG and the Oil Pipelines) or Osama's Custody Location (if he had the Transplants) to Obama - shortly after his 2nd Term (if Obama wins re-election) or before the end of his 1st Term (if Obama loses). Obama and the PetroDollar-MIC Daisy Chain actually get to "Keep Control" over IRQ/AFG, expand their Empire, and Profit.
Decades-Old Game, we're finding this out to be...
PS: Tylers, I stroke through the word "Bitches" for effect; but it's not showing up when I post it. Is it working?
IronForge: neither the strikethrough nor the underline work for comments using the edit bar buttons - they haven't for a long time. They will show up in the edit window correctly, but not the preview window nor in the final posted comment.
Thanks, Paveway.
RJ Hillhouse: that dude looks angrier than Hersch sounds!
The whole Bin Laden thing goes way back....
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/north.asp
You will notice they have back tracked & delete any and ALL links to referrences about Oliver North & Bin Laden too... (They are hiding the truth from everyone.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&add...
This article now makes me think about Bengazhi...would Obama and his crew sacrifice American lives to avoid what would appear to be an international terror incident shortly before the election to ensure his campaign did not suffer as a result ofpremature and erroneous boasts that Al Queda was decimated and on the run? Wow, if so, POTUS and some of his complicit cronies could go to jail for a long fucking time....
That black muslim cunt will lie about anything.
hey free shit
the half and half he cia
and jewish royalty
you electrical zionist tool
"Wow, if so, POTUS and some of his complicit cronies could go to jail for a long fucking time..."
Good job grasshoppa, you now know why this story is being told, again, ahead of Hillary's run.
Remember Finkel & Einhorn?
Now we have Osama & Obama.
For those who missed it the last few times, an old time, totally convincing in and of itself, MUST SEE and pass around..
The magnificient Pentalawn...
http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/pentalawn.html
That one NEVER gets old!
Who knew that the presumably passive Asian Indian could also be a total jackass? Good onya, Vivek!
Another self rightous, self important, New Yorker ..... what an a-hole. Why even bother to give interviews at all if you're going to be a pompous jerk that won't answer any questions.
<< if anyone didn’t think the president was going to fuck [the Pakistani military] they are out of their mind. He was always going to fuck them. >>
Reggie's gonna get jealous.
Not that it matters much, but he's from Chicago. I started reading his biography early last year "Scoop Artist" but never finished it. (Interesting to learn about how he came up, as well as the KAL shootdown, My Lai, etc) He comes across in the book EXACTLY as he does in this interview. He really did seem to have a dislike for those in power and he took a savage glee in airing their dirty laundry.
no OBL died of natural cause and was buried in a mountain valley in Afghanistan
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-big-lie-obama-did-not-kill-bin-laden/54...
Yeah, but think what it would have done to the White House or Capitol.
I know, I know. A corner of the Pentagon was much more symbolic.
s/
"Yeah, how did a poor Cesna pilot manage to fly a 757 pilot, feet above the ground at 500 miles an hour and penetrate 3 rings of the Pentagon with an ALUMINUM FUSELAGE. Come the fuck on..."
FWIW: On that day, I had a family member who was in a hotel right next to the pentagon and saw it happen. The plane few over the hotel and crashed into the Pentagon. The plane didn't just hit the outer ring, it struck all three rings during impact. The plane wasn't flying at 500 mphs, probably about 150 knots when it struck.
AGuy:
"The plane few over the hotel and crashed into the Pentagon. The plane didn't just hit the outer ring, it struck all three rings during impact."
What plane?
No fucking plane hit the Pentagon, go back to life 9/11 broadcast, no fucking plane amigo!
*typo
Re: The New Yorker:
I recently read an almost totally bullcrap article, in The Nation, written by a senior editor and head of fact-checking at The New Yorker!
This douchetard dishonestly portrayed the overthrow of the capitalistic government of democratically elected Arbenz of Guatemala by the Eisenhower Administration, as if they were deserving of it as they were "communist" (completely untrue), and that it was the normal thing to do!
That tells us the level of most of the senior douchetards at The New Yorker, but that doesn't mean Hersh is wrong.
Thanks Doom.
The medium matters.
My first reaction to Hersh's story was that - because of his reputation - maybe I need to reconsider my conclusion that Bin Laden was long since dead. It is a good read, but it does not answer or even address the problems with the official story, including multiple lines of evidence and logic pointing to the conclusion that Bin Laden - a reasonably thoughtful and articulate leader with a fairly clear picture of the US (see http://www.globalresearch.ca/interview-with-osama-bin-laden-denies-his-i...) - was already long gone and the raving lunatic in the cave was a fabrication.
Hersh's reactions to this interview are defensive almost to the point of being out of control. To his credit, not every liar cares enough to be that touchy, so maybe he's not yet lost and gone forever - but I'm pretty well done with him for now - except as another source, like the NYT, for the stories they're putting into circulation to manipulate the conversation, or for something some faction of the ruling class has decided we need to know.
Too bad.
Sy's angling for either a Pulitzer or a nailgun suicide...
(I'm just not sure which one)
...more likely the revolving door with a complimentary golden parachute. The sacrosanct, media-approved "conspiracy theorist".
The killing of OBL, if indeed it did occur, is not the same as the murder of 3000+ Americans on 911. Anyone getting too close to the truth, or spilling the beans to a reporter, on this topic would quickly be suicided.
I agree totally. We are being asked to believe OBL died in that raid after we are presented with two different versions that result in the same conclusion. People who know how the CIA, or the "establishment" use propaganda know to take everything we now hear from them with a grain of salt. And for the record, our mainstream media is the official Pravda of the US.
“It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.” – Voltaire
“All great truths begin as blasphemy.” - George Bernard Shaw
“In a time of universal deceit, truth telling becomes a revolutionary act.” - George Orwell
“Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.” - Thomas Jefferson
“The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” – George Orwell
“The duty of a true patriot is to protect his country from its government.” – Thomas Paine
“A foolish faith in authority is the worst enemy of the truth.” – Albert Einstein
“All government, in its essence, is a conspiracy against the superior man: it’s one permanent object is to oppress him and cripple him.” - H.L. Mencken
"Let them call me rebel and welcome, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of devils, were I to make a whore of my soul..." - Thomas Paine.
"There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance.” – Walt Whitman
"Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied" - Otto Von Bismarck (1815-1898), first Chancellor of a united Germany
“It is not difficult to deprive the great majority of independent thought. But the minority who will retain an inclination to criticize must also be silenced.”- Frederic Hayak
“It is the absolute right of the state to supervise the formation of public opinion.” – Joseph Goebbell
“We will know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.” - William Casey, CIA Director 1981.
Too Late... TV, Computers, Prussian Education System:
"There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance." Walt Whitman
"28 pages" and "Osama raid hoax" are just examples of throwing up a bunch of tedious bullshit details that don't add up to shit and keep people from focusing on a few relevent facts and seeing the bigger picture.
9/11-anthrax was a fraudulent, constructed Gladio-style event with traitorous insider complicity.
"9/11-anthrax was a fraudulent, constructed Gladio-style event with traitorous insider complicity."
This is true. But it certainly sold a lot of duct tape and made a few rich. I, for one, did not participate and tried to keep others from panicking by speaking as voice of reason. This failed.
Miffed
Miffed - I still have my anthrax plastic stored with my Iodine cream
:)
I'm pretty sure that in multiple of extrapolations, PEEPS are safe from ANTRAX in buttfuck, CA... But whom am I 2 say?
You know an interviewer is piss-poor when they always begin with an impossible-to-answer question:
What was their motivation?
Like how the fuck would Hersh know that, or anyone else unless they are a fucking mind reader, you simpleton!!!!
I'm not a fan of the New Yorker, a prissy and cowardly rag, but Hersh has always been extraordinarily accurate in ALL his news reporting --- and I say that as one who normally doesn't agree with his opinions.
The point being, it is obvious that they were about silencing bin Laden, the one person, who if the Cheney/Bush conspiracy theory is to be believed, should have been extreme renditioned and tortured for forever!
Now, we know from the release of the Senate's summary on the still classified CIA torture report, that the CIA's Alfreda Bikowsky Silverstein did knowingly order the torture of innocent men --- to extract false confessions, of course.
So: extracting false confessions from innocent non-players, and silencing Osama bin Laden.
Now what obvious crap does that tell us?
"What difference at this point does it make?" Hillary Clinton
Hersh's story is based on disinformation that the criminal Presidency has been releasing on a massive basis since Reagan grabbed the presidency by having former CIA head William Casey delay the release of the American hostages in Teheran until after election day. Some opponents of this disinformation policy, like Andrew Breitbart and those Navy SEALs, wind up dead. Others are prosecuted as spies. The NWO must have its way. Obama himself has to follow orders. If he doesn't, the NWO must have some damaging information on him that would send him to prison for serious crimes he committed as a college student. For the 343 firefighters who died at the World Trade Center, real justice won't come because Osama is dead. Osama worked for the dark core of the CIA. There will be some measure of justice when the real people behind the 9/11 attack, government master button pushers and Larry Silverstein, are stored in Supermax prison in Florence, Colorado.
I say Break up all Big organizations or at least reorganize them. It is too easy to have all kinds of secret stuff going on and no one admits responsibility for what happened or is happening.
In the old days The Buck Stopped at the Top.
But finger pointing is an art in the USSA.
- Persistence of Large Organizations and Large Budgets is always Ripe for both Plunder and "Capture" by Evil Actors
Indeed. NYT even had an obituary blog to mark his passing...
The Death of bin Ladenism By Amir Taheri Published: July 11, 2002http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/11/opinion/the-death-of-bin-ladenism.html
6 days 20 hrs and posting a NY Times link as evidence. Brilliant. BRING BACK THE CAPTCHA!
The fact that even the co-opted NYT is posting such stuff, way back then, shows that even the dogs on the street know that OBL died in 2001.
Normally I would agree with your visceral dismissal of the NYT; but if such a rag also reports on OBL's early death, then it is a good way to get through to peeps who only use MSM sources.
But that's not what the article showes, and it's not even the thesis of the piece the NYT (properly) pushed in the Opinion section.
The Author's thesis in regards to the death of Bin Laden was more metaphysical, and ALCIA(duh) in Iraq, Yemen, Magreb, et al., ISIS, Boko Haram, and on and on demonstrate that the NYT and the Author are FULL OF SHIT, and could not possibly have been MORE wrong.
Just sounds like more hersh shit to me. Or a hersh squirt.
The bullshit disinformation scam seems to get a lot of attention whores to get their 15 minutes of fame.
Stop already. OBL died in December 2001 of kidney failure.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1212851/Has-Osama-Bin-Laden-dead...
Well yeah, it is all fake theater. The question is always not what or how, but "why?".
It is kind of like the whole Obama born in America controversy. This issue is not where was Barrack (Barry) Obama born, but who is the clown in the Whitehouse? (do you really think that is the original Barrack Obama?) ... and where is the original Vlad Putin... and John Kerry for that matter?
Actually one must establish "what" before asking why. And the possible answer to the latter are uncomfortable
so what happened:
1) Obama lied and tried to blow smoke up people's asses for tactical purposes
2) ISI lied and tried to blow smoke up Hersh's asses for tactical purposes (however, there were enough correct and verifiable facts that Uncle Sam was forced to corroborate certain elements of the story, and thereby implicitly acknowledge their own previous lies)
3) Hersh knowingly played along, and facilitated the ISI's bitch slap of the magic negro in public.
so why:
does the ISI feel empowered to bitch slap of the magic negro in public? Pakistan is a relatively unstable and dirt poor country of 200 million people and several scores of nuclear weapons. FRN breadcrumbs from Uncle Sam and the explicit threat of military force have kept Pakistan in its "proper place" for years, so why jeopardize the EBT lifestyle?
7 weeks 4 days and posting a DailyMail link as evidence. Brilliant. BRING BACK THE CAPTCHA!
It's old news. It's not lot the Daily Mail broke the story, LOL
Hersh's version is old news too, it was first published in 2011, not 2015.
http://www.thespywhobilledme.com/the_spy_who_billed_me/2011/08/bin-laden...
(And Rizwan Akhtar has been using Durrani to lay the groundwork for this "release" for at least four months)
Sorry about the upcoming heart attack, Hersh. You fought the good fight.
He seems rather grumpy, possible depression, could be grounds for a "suicide".
i find whenever i'm grumpy and depressed, doing stuff around the house with a nailgun always makes me feel better.
Hopefully not, but he is beginning to sound just as frustrated with the whorescum of the CorporateMcMedia as Gary Webb did just before he shot himself multiple times in the head.
Now, Philip Merrill, former head of the Ex-Im Bank in Iraq when $8.7 billion in Iraqi oil funds went missing, had a scheduled interview the next Monday with a journalist.
That weekend, not appearing depressed, he was out on his yacht in the Chesapeake Bay area, when he blew off his head with a shot gun, then picked up a 200 pound anchor, dived off his yacht into the water, and swam 12 miles away then anchored down his dead body with that 200 lb. anchor.
Not bad for a short, fat guy in his 70s.
Ruled death by suicide, of course!
ONLY IN AMERIKA
I'll go with liver failure.
Hersh is a Sayanim, doing Bibi's bidding.
Simplicity and Clarity is key. Don't fall for the Magician's Trick.
He is the poster-boy for what radical marijuana calls controlled opposition.
thank sir isaac N.
Hersh is a zionist gatekeeper. A disinfo agent ment to confuse the history books.
RIPS
Controlled dissent.
A while ago I read a book called "Spy the Lie: Former CIA Officers Teach You How to Detect Deception" written by.. well.. former CIA officers.
If the book's content is to be believed, then a read of this transcript suggests Hersh is lying by commission and / or ommission on an Olympic level. Perhaps worthy of a gold medal.
Evasion, deflection, defensiveness, hostility... all wrapped up in a presumably understandable cranky-old-geezer package.
Candidly I don't give a shit one way or another whether Team Obama lied about this, since there are myriad more pertinent lies I do care about.
Hillary gets taken down while BHO skates. It is written!
Yup, but Hillary doesn't come from a CIA-connected family.
What is the big, frigging mystery about Barack Obama?
His stepfather was joyful and happy when Sukarno was overthrown, with one-half million Indonesian deaths!
His stepfather worked at Stanvac, Caltex, Mobil and Unocal.
His mom was a recipient of a Ford Foundation grant by Timothy Geithner's father, a roundabout CIA operation.
She would go into villages to gather socio-political-economic profiles of the people, send in the data to Ford, who passed it to the CIA, and then came the death squads.
Obama's first several appointments: CIA family people, Timothy Geithner and Diana Farrell, whom he both met as a child at those CIA gatherings!
Hmmm.... Maybe Kathryn Bigelow can do a movie about Seymour Herch, and this scandal? It wouldn't have the same "Patriotic Intent" as 0-Dark Thirty, but it'd be thrilling nonetheless.
Why would he back off anything when he's basically still spinning the same type of bullshit propaganda?
Not like he is reporting the (likely) truth that the whole thing was a sham and the boogeyman died in late 2001 like it was reported then and how many in the U.S intelligence angencies (including Bush himself) basically said he was dead during the year or two after that.
"Don't believe the hype. It's Zionist tripe."
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission.
LRB is gatekeepered.
Both USSA govt and Hersh are liars.
Osama bin Laden died in December of 2001 of kidney failure.
The USSA govt, Hersh and DutchBoy2015 are all liars.
Fixed it for ya.
This guy is a liberal cock sucker so you have ask yourself WHO GAVE HIM THE STORY AND WHY.
I prefer having my cock sucked liberally than conservatively
A zionist man will suck it for you at birth...just has to hold the beard out of the way.
RIPS
Finally, a fellow heterosexual at this Libertarian faggot metrosexual site!
If you have to ask yourself who, despite being been provided their exact names, then you shouldn't bother asking why.
Snowden proved that both Bush and Obama are liars. Hersh is just validating just how deceptive Obama and his Obamabots are.
Obama and the Obamabots are highly insecure, sociopathic, narcisistic cowards. They are not my leaders.
Thanks for being one of the very few sane commenters here today.
All the rest appear to be either juvenile delinquents or just plain uninformed.
Snowden really? The guy that supposedly left with the 'keys to the kingdom' minus any 911 material? The guy that put out years old softballs through Glenn Grewald's 250 million enterprise the Intercept? Oh yeah him. Snowden is a fiction along with OBL.
LMAO for those downvoters, you do realize that Putin (Russia, Snowden home) is "old friends" with one Henry Kissinger? The Russians nor the BRICS are going to save you...unfortunately, they are more controlled opposition. The left hand pushing you into the open right hand.
mbutler101, douchetard to the max, you obviously haven't read a single Snowden leak.
That is soooo effing obvious.
You still don't know anything about the SIM card op, or who the Equation Group is, do you, douchey?
The fucking miracle is all the information gathered by Edward Snowden while he was at a private contract, Booz Allen Hamilton, owned by the Caryle Group.
The major question is why are you attacking Snowden? Are you with the Pentagon, perhaps?
Well what screams out to me about Snowden is the absence of anything to do with 9/11. Maybe he'll issue something about it later but as of now this omission poisons everything thing else that he says.
Gotta say... while I generally think highly of Hersh, I absolutely agree that bin Laden was dead by 2002 or 2003, when he not-at-all suspiciously went to all audio or video with a dude who barely even resembled the OG bin Laden
I love a good cat fight. Perhaps we can have two out of three in a vat of jello.
I love when conspiracy theories clash.
There is no ''theory'' involved with Israelis being set up to film the ''event'' as they put it before the event toook place. They said they did it at behest of Israeli TV.
And were immediately allowed to get on a plane back to Israel.
I read they were held in custody for over 2 months.
Amazing that you've got (as of now) as many reds as greens, given that what you wrote is the undisputed truth.
When I was a kid, the John Birchers were the kings of the conspiracy world. They thought the elites in this country were secretly communists, lol. The conspiracy theories have changed, but the people who believe them are the same – they have a desperate need to “know” something that the rest of society doesn’t. It somehow soothes their sense of powerlessness.
I know (from trying to politely reason with some) that (some?) Moon-landing deniers seem to have that desperation you mention. Amazingly, they are more closed-minded than creationists. No offense meant to the "agnostic" types who just aren't sure. Are all conspiracy wanks like this?
p.s. In case I come off like a paid troll, I'm pretty sure the recent Ebola break-out was a bio-weapon strain.
John Birch Society was funded by the Koch family (originally begun by them) and H.L. Hunt.
Probably still is.
Now instead of commies, the bad guys are either socialists or moslems.
But the enemy is still the same, whether the super-rich of Saudi Arabia, or the super-rich of North Amerika.
The corollary of not being a conspiracy theorist is that you believe what the Government and MSM tell you. And if you do you might be interested in this excellent bridge in London that I'm selling.
what does say more hershey have to say on the dancing yahudi of 911.
why does this jewish royalty not rage at his tribe and what they did.
yes sir kosher hertz is quiet when it comes to mossad operations.
Israeli Truck Bombs On 9/11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDqNLrOd_SY
He should wear his nail gun proof vest and be on 24 hr suicide watch so he doesn't get suicided by the government. Bhutto said the something similar. Look where she is at now!
do not fret sayanim herzel pull it sir prize winner has mossad kidron protection 24 and 7.
they even join him in the horse meat local sauna
I only listen to Christian libertarians waving guns. And isn't this Seymour guy a Jew?
Obozo pissed off his Jewish supporters. this is payback but its bullshit no one cares now its backfiring
How strange that no one presses Obama to fully explain what happened. Bin Laden has been dead for some time, yet the US anti-terror industry says we have never faced a greater threat. Our anti-terror industry sprang up at the time that the Cold War ended. That's an interesting coincidence.
A “threat deficit” must be avoided, as explained in this academic paper.
http://etheses.dur.ac.uk/10605/3/Thesis-Final_Version.pdf
p.31
Towards the end of the final decade of the twentieth century, Madeleine Albright, then Secretary of State, wrote, "for the first time since the early 1930s, we face no single enemy to concentrate the mind." One year later, Condoleezza Rice, then foreign policy advisor to the Republican presidential candidate, George W. Bush, asserted, "The United States has found it exceedingly difficult to define its national interests in the absence of the Soviet power." Seemingly, the post-Cold War administrations were increasingly concerned with the surplus supremacy that the nation possessed in the immediate aftermath of the Cold War. As Richard Haass observed, "the fundamental question that confronts America today [1999] is how to exploit its enormous surplus of power in the world."
The above statements reveal that post-Cold War U.S foreign policy appeared to face a 'threat deficit'.
p.33
the perceived Soviet threat tended to be employed to rally the public and rationalize the mounting increases in the military budget. The demise of the communist foe, therefore, stripped the U.S. of what appeared to be a compelling rationale that appealingly interpreted its internal and external geopolitical attitudes. Thus, U.S. global primacy, at that particular unipolar moment, was primarily challenged by a ‘threat deficit’. Hence, “there was a string of attempts to find a replacement for the Soviet Union as the enemy focuses to US foreign and military policy.”
Threat deficit continued to be a major source of perplexity, until “the terrorist attacks of 9/11 offered a solution to this problem…”
Of course.
And who, pray, will press Obama to explain? The whores in the MSM or the bought-and-paid for Congresscritters? And if not they, then who else?
Govt says Santa did it., Hersh says 'Easter Bunny did it. both a pack of liars. ZioNazi scum masters of deceit and manipulation playing with the sheeples heads.
Hersh has a history of breaking news the government doesn't want broke. My theory is a highly placed confidential source is feeding Hersh bad info, but he just isn't outside the Matrix enough to doubt the whole narrative so he's running with what the Pentagon intentionally leaked to him.
Yep the old misdirection ploy
Except that it's not the Pentagram. It's the Moxxad.
So shoot the messenger? We've seen that a lot around here at ZH over the years.
The 4th Estate is nearly dead.
Sideshow. Bin Laden did not have the connections to "pull" building 7. Hersh is gaining a following because his style is brash, which makes it seem "outside the loop". The more I hear, the less I buy.
The FBI has stated over and over there was NO evidence of Osama bin Laden to 911. Somehow that is lost in the news.
Control the Talking Points, control the Agenda. Control the Agenda, control the Influence and Outcome.
Now who might want to saw away at Obama's Agenda and influence before the Summer Holidays? E.g. before the Agreement with Iran.
Oy vey
Check your biases (that's one of the relatively few intelligent comments in this thread)
But there's some 'Murican exceptionalism (i.e. American centric perspective) creeping in.
Who currently has a monopoly on the declared Mohammedan Bomb®?
A certain country that survives on continual "investment" handouts from richer countries and has a large sophisticated intelligence than is neck deep in this story and its back-story.
And what happens to the monopoly and those investments when, in short order, there are not only Sunni Bombs® and Shiite Bombs® but every cash rich camel jockey and his cousin in the neighborhood has one.
Proliferation revenue is non-recurring since there is no real inventory replenishment cycle, and the Saudis have already paid up to both Pakistan and China even if they haven't taken delivery.
As well he should. The corporate owned media conglomerations almost all own substantial defense industrial companies, with billions of profits at stake. Their bias is always to support the Imperial, Neo-Conservative, Zionist line. War is necessary and what America needs. Their political bias is to support banking and military spending. They are just a bunch of liars and corporate whores. I am very familiar with the old USSR's media propaganda system, in time it became so blatent that everyone saw the lies. American media is much better at making people buy into lies, using marketing techniques. They have branded "War" as American heros protecting us from all the evil doers who hate us for our freedoms. When in fact, Al-Qaeda and ISIS have direct connections to the CIA and Saudi intelligence. Money, arms and diplomatic support are flowing from America to these radical Islamists because they are useful to Washington's Imperial designs.
Media is America is so totally compromised by lies that I do not watch it, I select carefully media on the internet, like ZH, I select with care certain foreign sources, like The Aisan Times, and generally avoid American main stream media. They are right now some of the worst liars on earth!
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." -- William Colby, former CIA Director, cited by Dave Mcgowan, Derailing Democracy
And that was thirty years ago. CIA control has only increased exponentially since then.
After the raid Pakistan established a commision to look at the question of how OBL had managed to hide in Pakistan all that time undetected, how the Americans managed to get in undetected and get back out again, and why his body was disposed of etc. It was a major embarrasment to them. They produced at 336 page report which Al-Jazeera got hold of http://nation.com.pk/international/09-Jul-2013/pakistan-s-bin-laden-dossier (there was more detail reported at the time which should be around). This report concludes it was OBL from his blood on the floor DNA matched with children at the compound. No mention of any collusion over the raid or OBL being held as a prisoner or ISI being aware of his presence. This of course contradicts Bhutto's claim, and is at odds with what Hersch is coming out with now. Is Hersch now being discredited to throw doubt on his previous scoops, eg. the rat line?.
He says the editor at the LBR put him through the hoops and asked some very "nasty" questions!! Well he already wrote a long piece, why didn't he make it longer and cover the Bhutto question, (it was after all a David Frost interview, another journalist of note), the downing of the seal team, and this AlJazeera report. All of which carry weight and should have been addressed in a serious piece about Osama.
I don't know Jack, maybe it's just me, but Hersh seemed to be completely disgusted and fed up in that interview.
Not sure why he would even bother writing a story like that if he was just "controlled opposition". Why take all the abuse?
Never faced criticism, like the prez. This is an 'outside of US' broadside of their own puppet that serves at least two purposes. To derail the Iranian deal and take out Hillary. WW3 would be another profitable outcome.
Yeah today I'm looking at old English Plans laid by Cecil Rhodes to Redraw the Map of the world with English Dominance... and I see Treaties such as TPP, NAFTA, CAFTA-DR, GATT, UN as International Deal Making, Power Sharing.
And this is what I think the United States is all about today.
Power Corrupts, Money Corrupts, Big Organizations Corrupt... and the Media and Big Corporations & Foundations are tools of those at the top. Just like the Federal Government.
- Persistence of Large Organizations and Large Budgets is always Ripe for both Plunder and "Capture" by Evil Actors
- Anti-Trust Law has to be Implemented to Break Up Large Corporations, Foundations, Federal Government Power, ... so that People form the Government and Banking, Credit, Government ANSWER to the People, the Common People, and having a Middle Class, Having Freedom & Equality, IS PRIME
- Tricking people into Debt or Desperation seems the Goal of Unregulated Banking, Financial Vultures, and Big Government
- Just because NEOCONs are Anglophiles who want to Redraw the Map of the World, doesn't mean it is a good Idea
+100
The Bin Laden-Obama Tangled Web:
http://winteractionables.com/?p=20824
Truth is treason in an empire of lies.
same as it ever was...
Seymour Hersh and John Pilger and Paul Craig Roberts are some of the few courageous, independent voices left in Western media. It is great to see the Obama administration and the Pakistan military go apoplectic over this story.
Truth is treason in a fascist, police state.
Lumping Hersh in with Pilger and PCR is a true insult to them.
Hersh reported on My Lai, Abu Ghraib and Obama's lies about Assad's use of sarin in Syria
Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative journalist Seymour Hersh has published an article demonstrating that the US government and President Barack Obama knowingly lied when they claimed that the Syrian government had carried out a sarin gas attack on insurgent-held areas last August.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/12/10/pers-d10.html
He first gained worldwide recognition in 1969 for exposing the My Lai Massacre and its cover-up during the Vietnam War, for which he received the 1970 Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting. His 2004 reports on the US military's mistreatment of detainees at Abu Ghraib prison gained much attention. (Wiki)
My Lai type events were unfortunately not uncommon in Vietnam. It's been hypothesized that its revelation provided cover for the worse war crime Phoenix Program.
Phoenix is now on US soil as evidenced with the DHS Fusion Centers, warrantless detention, etc..
Abu GrabA$$ was the largest repository of ancient wheat seed.
The first thing Bremer did after the invasion was to steal all the farmers seed & make them buy MonSatan.