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Amtrak - A National Hazard At Any Speed
Submitted by David Stockman via Contra Corner blog,
This week’s tragic accident in Philadelphia should be a reminder. The real train wreck is Amtrak itself—–a colossal waste of taxpayer money and the very embodiment of what is wrong with state intervention in the free market economy. Worse still, the pork barrel politics which drive its handouts from Uncle Sam virtually guarantee that as time goes on Amtrak will become an increasing hazard to public safety, as well.
It seems like only yesterday, but one of my first assignments as a junior staffer on Capitol Hill was to analyze the enabling legislation that created Amtrak in the early 1970s. I was working for an old fashioned conservative Congressman and his first question was “how will it ever make a profit when we are running the trains from the Rayburn Building?”.
He couldn’t have been more clairvoyant. While it sponsors claimed Amtrak would be spewing black ink by 1974, the answer to my boss’ question was simple: never!
But you didn’t need to wait 43 years to prove it. There is not even a remote case that subsidizing intercity rail travel is a proper or necessary function of the state. Amtrak accounts for well less than 1% of intercity passenger miles. On every one of its 44 routes there are bus and air travel alternatives, and that is to say nothing of automobile travel —- in cars with drivers today or in the driverless kind tomorrow.
Moreover, the evidence overwhelmingly shows that passenger trains will never be economically competitive outside of a handful of densely populated corridors. By contrast, what was absolutely guaranteed from day one back in 1970 is that a government controlled passenger rail system crisscrossing the United States would become a monumental Congressional pork barrel—–an endless rebuke to rational economics.
And that it has. The cumulative taxpayer subsidy since 1972 totals more than $75 billion in dollars of today’s purchasing power. During the span of nearly a half century, Amtrak has operated upwards of 40 routes that have never, ever made even an “operating profit”.
Yet the operating profit test is itself a red herring. Like its aviation competitor, Amtrak is massively capital intensive. It maintains 21,000 miles of track, 100 rail stations, operates around 2,500 locomotives and passenger cars, and requires an extensive, costly infrastructure of communications and signaling systems, electric traction networks and a huge array of bridges, tunnels, switching yards, repair facilities, fencing and other right-of-way improvements and ancillary buildings. On a replacement basis, its entire capital asset base would easily amount to $50 billion (about $40 billion of track and infrastructure and $10 billion of rolling stock).
And that giant figure underscores the economic part of the Amtrak hazard. Even with a generous assumption that the useful lives of its equipment, rolling stock and infrastructure would average 25 years, Amtrak’s economic depreciation would amount to $2.0 billion per year. Since it generates roughly 8 billion passenger miles annually, this means that its capital consumption expense amounts to about 25 cents per passenger mile.
So here’s the thing. The average airline fare in the US is about 15 cents per passenger mile and the average bus fare is about 11 cents per mile. Now how in the world does it make sense to operate a lumbering passenger rail system in which the true economic cost of its capital assets alone is 65% to 130% higher than the profitable fares charged by the perfectly adequate and available alternative modes of transportation?
Stated differently, you are deep in the hole before you start even one Acela train on its route between Washington and Boston or one long distance train, for example, on its 1,750 mile route between Chicago and Los Angeles. But in the operations department it goes without saying that Amtrak —– burdened as it is with its endless array of Congressional mandates and directives —– is not exactly a model of efficiency or financial discipline.
Thus, Amtrak’s fully loaded wage and benefits tab is about $2 billion per year and is spread over 20,000 employees. Needless to say, at $100,000 per employee Amtrak’s costs are not even in the same zip code as its far more efficient for-profit competitors in the airline and bus transit industries.
On top of its massively bloated and featherbedded payroll, Amtrak also generates another $1.3 billion of expense for fuel, power, utilities, supplies, repair parts and operational and management overheads. Accordingly, its total operating budget at $3.3 billion amounts to about 40 cents of expense per passenger mile. That is, its operating costs are 3-4X the ticket price of its air and bus competitors!
The economic arithmetic is thus insuperable. On a system-wide basis, Amtrak’s combined capital and operating expense would amount to about 65 cents per passenger mile if it were honestly reckoned. That is, in the absence of Federal and state subsidies and the implicit subsidies that private railroad companies transfer to Amtrak via deeply below-market fees for utilization of their tracks and facilities. Indeed, 95% of Amtrak’s route-miles and 70% of its passenger-miles are generated on lines leased from freight railroads, which—-owing to regulatory mandates—-Amtrak pays only a trivial 2 cents per passenger mile. This figure is not remotely reflective of the real economic costs.
By contrast, Amtrak’s ticket revenues amount to hardly 30 cents per passenger mile. So contrary to Amtrak’s claim that it has nearly reached break-even, its true economics reflect the very opposite. Namely, a giant political pork barrel in which system revenues cover less than 45% of its all-in economic costs to society.
Nor can this disability be remedied by reforming the system and paring back its routes to just the profitable corridors. Even the northeast corridor generates only 10 cents of “operating profits” per passenger mile. Throw-in the capital costs and even Amtrak’s so-called profitable lines are still deeply underwater.
To wit, a recent inspector general report estimated that the replacement cost of the northeast corridor infrastructure alone was about $15 billion, which would amount to $400 million per year on an amortized basis or 20 cents per passenger-mile. Add in another 5 cents per passenger-mile for locomotives and rail cars and you have 25 cents of capital costs.
So there is a reason why even the northeast corridor has never been privatized. It would lose at least 15 cents on each of the 2 billion passenger miles that Amtrak/northeast corridor generates annually in the absence of much higher fares.
And those are the baleful facts regarding the Acela and regional routes in the Washington-Boston corridor. The rest of the system embodies just plain economic waste. The aforementioned Chicago-Los Angeles route, for example, has operating costs of 35 cents per passenger mile; and total costs with capital consumption would be at least 50 cents per mile–even giving allowance for the lower capital intensity of long distance routes.
The problem is that you can get an airline coach fare today between the Chicago-Los Angeles pair for $200 or 11 cents per mile. And you don’t need to spend 22 hours on the train, either.
As it is, Amtrak’s current fare on this route is about 15 cents per passenger mile and apparently it cannot go much higher if it wishes to remain competitive with air. Yet why in the world should bus drivers in Minneapolis pay Federal taxes in order to provide what amounts to a $600 subsidy per ticket on the 180,000 tickets that are sold annually on the Chicago-Los Angeles route? And the latter is only typical of most of the other routes outside the northeast corridor.
Obviously, there is no means test to get a $600 subsidy from Amtrak, or any other plausible criterion of public need. Like so much else which emanates from Washington, these Amtrak subsidies are distributed willy-nilly——in this case to retirees with enough time and money to see the country at leisure or to people with fear of flying who don’t wish to drive.
So Amtrak is a white elephant as a matter of economics, but when it comes to public safety it is actually a wounded one. That’s because when push comes to shove and Congress is faced with limited budget headroom, it always elects to short change the capital budget rather than reduce the scope of Amtrak’s far-flung operations and eliminate any of the 44 routes which crisscross the nation’s congressional districts.
I actually learned that lesson during the so-called Reagan Revolution. My original plan was to eliminate Amtrak entirely, and it would have saved upwards of $60 billion in the decades to come. At the get-go, the Gipper was all for it. Not a proper function of government, he nodded.
Then his Secretary of Transportation and previously chief GOP fundraiser and governor of Pennsylvania explained that the Gipper was right—but not quite. The northeast corridor (NEC) routes were an exception. They provided a valuable economic function——so by paring the system back to these high density routes the Amtrak budget could be cut in half. Moreover, after some up-front capital spending, the NEC could be transformed into a profitable business and eventually sold to the private sector in an IPO. That’s just the thing, said President Reagan.
Then it got to Capitol Hill and the Republican politicians said we are all for cutting the Amtrak budget by 50%, but to get the votes we need to do it “our way”. Upon which the Gipper replied, yes, we are here first and foremost to shrink the runaway Federal budget——so do what you must to get those savings.
They did. They drastically pared back the capital budget and kept virtually all of the routes and operating subsidy costs in place. When Uncle Sam came up short, capital investment could be deferred, but the pork barrel had to be fed.
In the bye and bye, of course, Amtrak’s budget was restored all the way back to Jimmy Carter’s “wasteful” levels and actually hit record amounts during the Republican government of 2001-2008. But even then there was never enough appropriations to keep this giant white elephant properly fed——so capital investment was perennially short-changed and the system’s fixed assets steadily deteriorated.
Whether this week’s disaster was human error or not, the larger certainty is that the system has been chronically starved of capital. But the solution is not for a bankrupt government in Washington to pour more money down the Amtrak rat hole in the name of “infrastructure investment”, as the big spenders are now braying in the wake of this week’s disaster in Philadelphia.
Instead, Amtrak should be put out of its misery once and for all. Otherwise its longstanding hazard to the taxpayers is likely to be compounded by even more public safety disasters like this week’s tragic event.
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Chronically starved of capital, chronically engorged with bureaucratic inefficiencies and waste.
And gay drivers
Trains remind me of stagecoaches, and movies with people who are now deceased.
Detroit is building a new rail system. Rail is the future!! LOL
Ayn Rand was amazingly prophetic...
good enough for government work
Im sure this has absolutely nothing to do with Congress cutting Amtrack funding 2 days ago...
What better way to have funding increased than a disaster? Only in government does failure result in greater funding.
You know what is so disgusting? Those strange milky white stains on the back of the seat in front of you. Yea, you say to yourself: 'ah, maybe that's just some spit'.....
Pubic Transportation.
dp
Atlas Shrugged meets Trading Places.
"Who's been putting out Kools on my carpet."
The dumb-F thing in Detroit is the existing ‘mass transit rail system’ – the People Mover.
The tracks of the newest rail system are a different gauge than the existing People Mover system. And both sets of these tracks differ from the U.S. rail gauge standard. For some reason Detroit ‘leaders’ are intentionally building a Cluster F.
These are some stupid voters in Detroit.
Spend 4 times the real cost to build it wrong, and then 4 times the real cost to "fix" it. Of course, all of the $$$ used to pay for it all, are all borrowed from the banksters.
How else are the pols, crats, and banksters to eat?!
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission.
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20080507006151/en/ARINC-Wins-Centralized-Electrification-Traffic-Control-System
http://cache.freescale.com/files/training/doc/dwf/JNK_AUT_T1225.pdf [Seems like ARINC and Freescale Semiconductor chips just keep appearing in the news, without ever being mentioned?]
killing brown people, running drugs and DE-stabilizing the world take priority over infrastructure
Train service is the most efficient transportation. Go to Europe and check out their trains. In order to un clog our highways we have to make train travel cheaper and more accessible. Who wants to be at an airport to fly short distances if you can take a train instead?
Uh, maybe because air travel is faster, cheaper, and safer?
Train travel works in Europe and the US Northeast because the distances traveled are so short.
Ever try to take a train from San Diego to Seattle?
Good luck with that...
the distances in europe are not so short, but made shorter by the train. Madrid to Malaga is 7hours dangerous driving on cliffs and around mountains. Its about 2 hours on a train .
Yeah, and it's 1 hour, 30 minutes by plane, for $128 (roundtrip):
http://vacation.hotwire.com/Flights-Search?tmid=8601262035&trip=RoundTrip&leg1=from:MAD,to:AGP,departure:05/27/2015TANYT&leg2=from:AGP,to:MAD,departure:07/31/2015TANYT&passengers=children:0,adults:1,seniors:0,infantinlap:Y&options=sortby:price&mode=search&paandi=true
btw,
Just for fun: Here's a roundtrip from Los Angeles to Seattle for comparison:
Amtrak:
Roundtrip Fare: $452
Travel Time: 34 hours, 27 minutes
Plane:
Roundtrip Fare: $285
Travel Time: 2 hours, 45 minutes
Which would you rather take?
Pool Shark, that's the only choices now. But what if you had a mag-lev at 250mph? 5 hours in comfort instead of a cattle car airplane.
No argument there.
But, do you really think that if the US government builds such a system, the ticket prices will be reasonable?
The ridiculous 'High Speed Rail' system they're trying to build here in California will purportedly take you from LA to San Francisco in about 3 hours (I highly doubt this given the recent 'changes' they're proposing to make the system less expensive).
Right now you can take a flight from LA to San Francisco that will get you there in half that time for $175 roundtrip:
https://vacation.hotwire.com/Details?action=UnifiedDetailsWidget@showDetails&rfrr=&c=d3eff8e2-0e37-40cb-89f9-2d96dce2228a&udpDisplayMode=normal
Clearly you have never considered the north east corridor...
For downtown to downtown from Boston to D.C. and all points in between nothing beats Amtrak...
Especially when you fold in transport to and from airport and the TSA induced clusterfuck..
Not to mention that in Amtrak business class you can actually get work done...
Ever try working on a laptop in economy class? I mean working and not fucking around with some game...
Clearly you think the centrally planned NE Choo Choo, will work anwhere west of the Mississippi. Why work in econ class, when you can just drink for 2 hrs, then work in the comfort of the hotel bar?
Centrally planned??
WTF are you talking about?
I mentioned the NE corridor, go put words in somebody elses mouth...
In Europe ticket prices appear reasonable, but there are tons of accounting gimmicks masking the fully loaded cost of each ticket, the two largest are State Ownership and subsidies to railroads and gas taxes which make driving relatively less attractive.
But 250mph trains are a doomed idea anywhere in the USSA, because what Europe has at the terminal points of its high speed tracks are high population population densities with comprehensive and integrated public transit options. It's one-stop shopping for efficient door-to-door transit almost anywhere.
You got it. Exactly right.
You have to add the time to get to the airport (45 minutes about if you live nearby) plus the 1 hour you have to spend waiting to get on the plane and the half an hour to get off the plane. Train is much faster.
as far as the comparison in prices, I suspect that depends on the time and date of your travel and you can get cheaper fares for both. (also the airplane is subsidized as well)
So, you don't have to travel to the train station at both ends of your train trip?
I'm not knocking the train system in Europe; I'm knocking the train system in the Western USA; it sucks!
In the western USA there are FAR better means of travel. Even car travel beats trains out here.
Heck, I can drive from LA to San Francisco in about 5-1/2 hours, and not have to deal with transportation at both ends of my trip. If you add the travel at both ends to the 3-hour (alleged) bullet train they're building, I'll bet it's not too far from break-even, AND I have my transportation (car) with me and can go anywhere in both cities.
"Which would you rather take?"
The train, as long as I don't have to be molested by TSA thugs.
We're fools to the future and as a nation if we don't sensibly build and maintain a solid rail infrastructure.
If people actually used trains here in the west, you could bet TSA would be molesting them too.
Just wait for the first documented terrorist-derailing to occur...
[PS: "Public Transportation" means Big Brother will be controlling every aspect of it. For now, I'll take my personal car over just about every other means of travel; planes for greater distances.]
Yeah. Don't ya think though that the 'freedom' of the car has become a sort of parody of itself? I drive, but Lord, crawling along jammed freeways, 5 lanes wide is hardly a happy vision of the future.
Not really. You need to add in the time to get to the airport, check in, etc. Then at the other end get off the plane and then get from the airport to your destination. The train journey may be appear to be longer but the train goes city centre to city centre. Before I left the UK they openned the channel tunnel. It immediately made flying to Paris from London a bit pointless.
It's almost like you have no conception of how fucking big North America is.
I dunno..
With trains we get distracted gay drivers.
With planes we get suicidal pilots
I think I'll just stay put.
It's really cheap to hop a freight, and if it's a BNSF you have the added satisfaction of riding on uncle Warren's dime. You may want to check and make sure it isn't one with oil tank cars, though.
If we had a Shinkansen like Japan, we could do it in 5 hours.
SD to Seattle would be quick with Maglev high speed - the Malaga to Madrid service is fantastic - took it many times
The Chinese and Russians are building high speed train service to Berlin from Beijing - frieght will be avoiding US Navy on the high seas - all these are public money projects - only in US are RR behind
the USA is yesterdays WWII country - the future is elsewhere - Fascism will not prevail everywhere
Yes, government's confiscating money from productive private individuals to build monolithic mega projects like the Autobahn [look it up] is totally the opposite of Fascism.
What an idiot.
The jerk off posting before you probably never rode on a trial in Europe. What is one of the nicest things about most trains in Europe (UK not so much). It is the people who are NOT on European trains. No Trayvons.
The argument for profitable public infrastructure is a farse. City streets are not profitable, preserving clean drinking water is not profitable, the highway system is not profitable, airports are not profitable, yet for some reasons, railroad projects need to be profitable independent of all subisidy to be viable?
One of the primary roles of government is to protect the common good, and a functioning efficient public transit system is one of those public goods. In fact, the systematic destruction of public infrastructure that frees Americans from dependence on privatley owned/maintained automobiles (individuals are still free to choose private automobiles) continues to be a goal of the for PROFIT corporate elite.
If you have more time, consider the documentray "Taken for a Ride" which follows the systematic national decimation of public transit by GM in the post war era.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taken_for_a_Ride
There is nothing in the Constitution about "protecting the common good" Who knows what a cluster-fuck that could lead to. Oh wait....
You ignorant fool:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
You got a dictionary on that i-phone?
Oh I'm sorry. Here you go:
fool
[fool]
noun
1. a silly or stupid person; a person who lacks judgment or sense.
2. a professional jester, formerly kept by a person of royal or noble rank for amusement:
the court fool.
3. Zero Hedge User zhandax
I, much like you, have been conned. I highly suggest you check out http://www.thetruthaboutthelaw.com/
Member for 3 days! What's with all these socialist idiots invading Zerohedge. Oh noes, profits!! Whatever shall we do! Uh oh, I think I'm getting triggered. This is a trigger free zone!
All of the things you mention can and should be profitable, because then we could understand what they actually were worth.
You can't define the common good in a cogent way, nor can anyone else, so please stuff it. Would so much rather the voluntary dependency of a customer to the coerced dependency on the state.
While you are at it, can you please tell everyone about the complicity in municipal governments in GM's plans?
is that you...Jim Kunstler?
Yes, US Cities are not set up for real poverty or a real energy crisis. Robber Barons would have worked to get rid of Electric street cars that makes sense.
And often the European Train Stations, Underground Stations, Overhead Train stations are located right where you need them... where airports often mean a shuttle from long term parking to the Terminal, then shuttle to the Gate.
Asia has good transportation to from what I see... even if it is slow or cheap buses.
Technically, weren’t huge Infrastructure Bills passed to pull us out of the 2008 debacle?
Every move, we're ripped off.
Yep.
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009"The approximate cost of the economic stimulus package was estimated to be $787 billion at the time of passage, later revised to $831 billion between 2009 and 2019"
If the reports of the train accelerating during that last minute into the curve are true, could it have been a suicide attempt? Reminds me of the Germanwings disaster.
He didn't get his Hug.
He didn't get his Hug.
What reports? Trains don't do much accelerating in 60 seconds.
I'd guess that a short and light commuter train is a different beast than a loaded 60 car freight train.
"In the minute or so before the crash, the train sped up from 70 mph until it reached more than 100 mph at a sharp bend..."
http://news.yahoo.com/amtrak-train-deadly-wreck-speeding-why-061551289--...
The socialist road system is the biggest mistake of the 20th century outside the wars. Made us dependent on a non-renewable resource; filled the earth, sea, and sky with pollution; made communities unwalkable and drove (no pun intended) a massive wedge between people and their neighbors; created endless nasty suburban sprawl with clusters of single-use buildings that puts big distance between you and the simplest things that you have to pay to travel; turned us all into subsidy machines for the oil conglomarates, car and insurance companies - the list of cons goes on and on and on.
That and dumbed down education are essentials for a succesful consumer society.
In the early 20 years of Eisenhower's Interstate road system more dwellings were destroyed than in WW2.
The railroads have to pay taxes on their right of way properties while truckers suffer none of that. Do you recall the whining stickers on the backs of the semi-trailers that complained of the couple thousand of fuel taxes that they had to pay?
Anyone should look at the true costs of heavy trucking on the thoroghfares versus the costs of damage from the heavies. It is an enormous subsidy to trucking as compared to rail.
Rail travel is different from hugely subsidized air and highway travel how?
highway travel is dangerous and extremely stressful, and time wasting (you cant read or work while you are driving)
Hi, I lived in Madrid for 3 years and made that trip to Malaga-Torremolinos a few times. I love SPAIN. FAntastic place.
Property prices are coming down now because of the economic slump. Neighbour bought a place outside of Valenica. CHEAP. with pool ,tennis court .
The airline and highway lobbies are much more effective than the railway lobby.
Air travel alone probably gets the same annual subsidy that amtrack has cost since 1970. The TSA budget alone is $7.3 B. Stockman is looking at the wrong place to cut. If the airline industry had to compete with rail travel without subsidies, we'd all be riding the train for continental trips.
Air freight rate ton mile: $135.45
Rail freight rate ton mile: $3.95
http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/publications/na...
How much revenue does our Aid-to-Israel program produce? When is this going to break even?
What about the Peace dividend from that investment ?
Oh wait......
Wait, but why dont you compare the dangers of riding Amtrak to the dangers or driving on the highways! There are thousands of car accidents on the highways daily and taking a train is the only safe way to travel (comparatively) except for flying which is much more expensive and cumbersome.
are you suggesting we be the only country in the world without a train system? and just everyone has to risk their lives on the highway to get somewhere ?
David,
Have you ever spent 8 hours driving 150 miles through the northeast corridor on a Friday? I suspect that would give you a different perspective on rail travel.
The government is not there to take care of your unpleasantries and supply you with your own person conveniences.
The federal government also needs to get out of the highway and air transportation business and leave those in the hands of the private sector.
There's no escape from the Obama train. Yes the engineer is gay. Enjoy the ride.ps no smoking it might kill you before they do
It's run by the government, which means it will be absurdly expensive and poorly managed.
The feds fail at everything they try. Why should Amtrak be any different?
They are pretty good liars and tax collectors.
Other than these I agree with you.
In all seriousness, after the various never ending wars, and bank bailouts, why not keep rolling along?
Oh, by the way, how profitable is the interstate highway system, how profitable are the ports, how profitable are all of the air control towers and airports?
That's what I thought.
When Conrail was a laughing stock of the railroad industry, no one cared, but once it succeeded (became, what's that word, profitable?), it was split apart between the Norfolk Southern and CSX.
I think we have to accept that public infrastructure cannot and will not be profitable. its something we are willing to pay taxes for because we need and want it and it can't be done in a profitable way.
Why does everything have to be profitable? Its a sin that the defense industry is profitable, and its a sin that the pharmaceutical iindustry is profitable, those two things should be done as a public service and not allowed to be profitable and you will see how fast the wars end and they find natural cures for all disesases.
The profit motive is often at the root of the problem. American prisons are a chilling case in point in this regard: They are privatised and their prisoners are essentially cheap labour. Privatization creates wrong and even dangerous incentives.
Power hungry megalomaniacs, a/k/a pols who control the levers of state power and their bureaucratic enforcers creates corrupt, unaccountable misery for the people...forever.
I'm not a fan of war or big pharma, but profits aren't the problem. The problem is gov't corruption. We can't have natural cures because they cannot get through the FDA. Wars are bought by lobbyist. Profit is a great motivator and has brought us the greatest inventions.
Also, infrastructure can be profitable. The best roads in my area are in private communities, private toll roads and private retail developments.
The interstate highways in the US are funded by the gas tax, not a taxpayer burden.
I am sure you know that.
Profit motive and free open markets are not the same thing.
When government picks the winners, allows a monopoly or has massive amounts of regulations protecting existing players - it is not the same as allowing multiple companies to compete in an open way.
Even worse when the government is the main customer paying a private company to do something. Like write the software for Obamacare.
Outside of the NE Corridor, Amtrak does not have any dedicated track that I'm aware of. They use freight haulers' RoW's.
So often times the trains, say, here in NY and across the Midwest to Chicago, are late, because the freight haulers have priority over Amtrak. Yet another reason why not to ride the rails. Often times the Lakeshore Limited runs 3-6 hours behind schedule, which is a PITA if you're on that train.
Sorry, Amtrak, I'll fly or drive (usually the latter).
i guess you would rather risk your life! 35,000 fatal car accidents in one year in the US : http://www.statisticbrain.com/car-crash-fatality-statistics-2/
Average number of people killed on US roads each day 80 Average number of non-fatal car crashes each year 5,400,000So?
I just looked the Amtrak schedule up.
Amtrak estimates a 5 hr, 29-min trip between Detroit and Chicago. I’ve known people who rode the trip. It’s always longer than 8 hours. This does not include parking, boarding/deboarding, etc.
4 hours to drive.
You can take the hi speed train (Eurostar) from London to Paris and its faster than flying. including the 30 miles under the English Channel in the tunnel.
Proven on Top Gear.
Putin has plans for a high-speed corridor system between London and New York.
‘
Plans for a new high-speed transport corridor that could potentially link London and New York by rail and superhighway have been unveiled.
The idea, dubbed the Trans-Eurasian Belt Development (TERP), would see a high speed railway and motorway built from Eastern Europe, across Siberia and over the Bering Strait to Alaska.’
Russia and China could do it. if anyone can. and do it quite quickly.
Uncle Warren doesn't like to share.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/12/23/212551/oil-grain-trains-squeeze-am...
Don't understand your down arrows - you are correct on the RofW's and how late long run trains are! Maybe Amtrak owns some short haul track n the Northeast, but it's all freight priority everywhere else including California!
Paging Mussolini.
Who is John Galt?
Yeah, sell everything to Buffet and Blackstone. Because Ayn Rand.
Why does the greatest nation on earth prove unable to have decent rail service inside heavily populated urban centers? Well, we can't afford it! Why? Here are some examples why.
Over 1 trillion dollars spent to destroy and occupy Iraq.
Over 1 trillion dollars spent to destroy and occupy Afghanistan
Over 1 trillion a year in peace time military and spy spending.
Now I ask you, with a cost structure like that, the USA can hardly afford modern high speed and commuter rail service.
In England, it is easy to live 100KM from London and communte to work by rail. Or the shorter distances. You can live in far west London, walk five minutes to the tube station and 30 minutes later walk up into view of your office. In America, you need a car, or you are fucked.
America is NOT the greatest nation on earth. Where do you get these nutty ideas? Its far from it and ranks way down the list in numerous categories.
American can't do rail. They can't do decent air service. They can't build 21st century infrastructure.
Most everyone here takes European or Asian carriers to fly to USA. Much better service.
Can’t build cars either between the bailouts and the murder cases.
It is worse than that. 35 years ago I would hike in the mud at times to get up on the highway to catch a city bus or the reverse to walk home. Lots of towns and cities don't have proper sidewalks on the side of the road, let alone a set of stairs to get up on the highway.
But it is better than Latin America.
I drove down dark roads in the early evening where you see women with kids standing on the road in the dark (no sidewalk). They are waiting for anyone to come along and give them a ride, bus, car, truck. But it is kind of scary as a driver and rain causes fog on the windshield. I tell you they look tired, bored, hungry and they are right on the road in the Dark.
And you nail it !
Federal TaxPayers shouldn't be on the hook every year for another infusion of their money to stave off collapse of an alleged private enterprise that banks on pilfering other people's money without accountability. Basic political economy, and I know you know better.
As others have said, Amtrak uses freight rails, but otherwise the article is good. There are a couple of things that need to happen for Amtrak to be viable and competitive.
1. Get scheduling priority on the subsidized rail lines so the trains are on time.
2. Many stations, though historic, have been bypassed by city growth and are in shady areas. Build stations where it is safe and where there is parking.
3. Imagine arriving at an airport and finding no rental cars. Who would want to take a taxi to the railway station to get your car. They need rental cars at each major station.
4. Trains run the same long distance schedule every day. It is a pain if the train passes through at 2:00 AM each day. - and is usually late. Flip the schedule every other day so granny can get on right after lunch instead.
5. Food service is usually horrible and expensive. Fix it and you might even make money - especially since salaries are your biggest cost regardless of how much food you sell.
Amtrak is an employment agency, not a railroad. Without these fixes, the only way to be close to break even is to eliminate long distance routes and focus only on short commuter runs.
I used to take the train in Denver to Winter Park....normally an hour and a half ride....Amtrack was never on time....never....and they had no idea where the train was...Amtrak does not know of GPS yet...so they would make you come to the station and wait for hours for your tain....the Employees were terrible by and large...UNION to the MAX...say your train was scheduled to leave Denver at 7pm....dinner time and you had a reservation in the club car for dinner....and it finally left at 9..when the kitchen closes...guess what..they just closed the kitchen....did not matter if you had paid for your dinner or not..no refunds....if you could kick out the unions....it would be run better and much more efficent....IMHO....
Problem: In the USA no one wants to hold the Executives Responsible.
But we have no problem letting them bid up their own Compensation packages. Maybe they are a little slow at learning how to negotiate with Unions (the never did), but they learned enough how to negotiate their own compensation with fake metrics or nice write ups for cost cutting, company expansions, opening up new markets, increasing sales,...
Well it is the same with the US Government. They spread out the Responsibility so they can say "who knew that was going to happen".
And MSM helps everyone cover this up. Apparently no one really likes leaders that take responsibility for screw ups... but they love to gossip, cut other people down, compete head to head, show boat like they are the greatest thing since Fred Astaire.
US is Doomed. Denver is home to tons of Engineering Firms and Executives. This is the Best that they got on an AMTRAK Executives Salary?
Thought Obama/Musk/Crack were gonna hyperloop us to Mars, y'all
We need and should have rail.
It would appear other countries do well with a rail system. All the space and materials that are wasted on highways, gas stations...etc.
Somehow, Stockmans' math does not add up.
Rail is one of the cheapest ways to move things.
Some things should be done because it is better overall, not just for some myopic view of profit.
You missed a few points. The 15B of costs on the Acela line were to upgrade end to end to full high-speed rail. In that case there should be higher ridership and higher fares. The reason why Amtrak doesn't need to factor in their capital costs is because they "share" track with existing freight. While this is a subsidy the freight rails provide it's not a huge cost as there are relatively few Amtrak trains and the track is already laid.
Too bad most Americans have never been on a hi speed train system like we have in Europe. The latest trains are fantastic. big comfy seats and leg room. Table with room enough for 2 laptops Wifi everywhere you go (FREE). Great food. and great scenery.
And you actually meet great people.
Compare that to sitting in a sardine can aircraft.
Sometimes you gotta slow down and enjoy life.
" Too bad most Americans have never been on a hi speed train system like we have in Europe."
then
" Sometimes you gotta slow down and enjoy life."
And Oh Boy!!!! WiFi for my idiot phone so I can text my friends while all that scenic beauty is screaming by at 150 mph,,, 250 kmh.
Slow down???
No,retard, so you can also get work done on your laptop. in piece and quiet. Try that ona plane.
BTW, its not 150 mph its 250 mph, average 200mph not KPH, MPH., about 300 KPH
First of all I didn't meet any great people, I met a bunch of arrogant smelly Euros.
Second, I could fit some European countries in my backyard. I don't think you understand the scale of the US. Trains will never be practical here, we have cities that are hundreds of miles from the next city.
The USA can fit into the Sahara desert. so its not THAT big. You could fit some countries into your back pocket? The HALF of the USA is wasteland. Its crappy towns and HUGE cities , thats all.
BTW, Bozo, look where my little pocket sized country ranks here , and then find your big country ., don't wear your scroll wheell out.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/21...
Smelly? That would you FAT Fucks who can barely fit into one seat. Glad you won't be coming here anymore.
Stay in your goddam shithole Americunt trash,.
I've just recently looked at some int'l data on obesity. I think it was WHO data, and European obesity rates were right on the heels of Merikans. I was surprised, as there is that typical European centric narrative...like one of your earlier posts about the culture and class of Europeans. Europeans have always, well their elitists, have always claimed superiority to the Americans. Well, I'm not impressed. European cities have a full compliment of depressing, crime-ridden ghettos.
Not nearly as bad as US ghettos. BTW, I live in the Rhine valley in the forest. and haven't been anywhere near Amsterdam in 3 years even though its 45 minutes away. Its a craphole, I don't understand why Americans think its to nice.
We lived outside of Wiesbaden in the Tanus Mountains. It's fine for them, but it is ordered liberty that no gov't should be allowed to hoist upon Americans. The only peaceful interlude, with relative prosperity for the European, was due to the Americans, post WWII. Not even the tiny nation of Belgium (Today) can seemingly avoid the tribal conflicts that have defined all that superior culture and class of Europe through the past 2,000 years of its history.
Lookie here, you American and European cunts....SHUT THE FUCK UP, BOTH OF YOU MOTHERFUCKING HITLER SPAWNING, MIC AND BANKSTER SPEWING WAR MONGERING MOTHERFUCKERS...
YOU BOTH STINK LIKE SHIT
YOU BOTH ARE RUDE, ARROGANT CUNTS
SO THERE...NO GO SOAK YOUR HEADS IN CIDER...FUCKERS
Jamaica, eh? Bwaaaaaaaaa
You seen one city in the USA, you seen them all. and everywhere you go big ugly strip malls and big box stores. NO character.
It is a measure of a bit more freedom here than in Europe. Hey you can visit Hilton Head Island, SC, where zoning defines how little freedom an individual exercises. HHI is attractive, but is it worth the loss of freedom? For many it is.
Look, asshole. you say I don't understand the scope of the USA? haha I lived there 35 years, you idiot. and been to every state including Hawaii and Alaska.
The smelly arrogant cocksuckers are trash like YOU. Cultureless clods .
I agree with everything you said except your assertion that Europeans have culture or class. They have neither, and never have. In fact, Europe's greatest contribution to the world is mercantilistic war for the past 300 years. Their individual contributors is of course a different matter.
They have more class and culture than American clods. I have lived 35 years in the USA and 26 years in Europe. I wouldn't move back to the USA for a million bucks.
The warmongers are Americans and have been since 1945 when the Nazis moved to the Pentagon.
Try blowing your smoke and myths up someone elses ass.
Dude, your earnestly held beliefs are fine with me, but please elucidate this American clod on the superior class and culture of the European. Their history is rife with war mongering on a scale never matched before or since.
The EU codification of every facet of life....the German male driver arrested for calling the female driver stupid after an accident...the family who fled arrest for homeschooling their children...
Not that all that isn't coming to Amerika
Vienna to London in one day nice video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2MlMk9j2vM
Birmingham, AL to Washington, District of Criminality eighteen hours.
"Moreover, the evidence overwhelmingly shows that passenger trains will never be economically competitive"
Only in the ussa. Elsewhere trains are doing fine. Murikans fetish for getting to McD's in less than 30 seconds trying to kill everyone in their path only to wait 30 minutes in line with their useless gas guzzler idling and the A/C on. (Gas Guzzler in that perspective would include all from the Prius up.)
Like their Wal Marts loaded with cheep foreign goods, flying in filthy aircraft with no meals, packed like cattle and sexually abused for their ever important security, or going 95-100 on a freeway endangering every bodies life so they can get to Grandma's 20 minutes sooner,,, Cutting each other off, play bumper cars and then road rage if some one flips them off.
Corporations are the same. Metrics that measure how fast something gets done rather than how good the job was. My son was terminated from Big Tire because he could not remove, change, balance re-mount four tires in 4 minutes. No kidding! Chemical / petroleum / Nuclear plants not getting their 'proper' maintenance because employees are in a hurry like every one else end up exploding or leaking radiation because of shoddy maintenance and feral management saving pennies for their bonuses.
No,,, trains cannot compete with that nonsense. They were meant for people that enjoy life. Not in a hurry to get through it and die.
Ha! Lots of truth in your comments! Good summary of the way things are here in the US!
Fortunately, there some of us who observe the same things you have- and avoid all the things you mentioned to the best of our ability!
Smell a Corporate Bailout or Not?
How many times has GM & Chrysler been bailed out. At least 3 Times.
- 1979 Chrysler bailout, Iacocca approached the United States Congress in 1979, Chrysler was required to reduce costs
- 2009 Chrysler bankruptcy, Because of the Chrysler bankruptcy, Iacocca may lose part of his pension from a supplemental executive retirement plan
- 2009 GM bankruptcy & Bailout
- 2009 Wall Street Bailout, Unlimited FED Loans, $800 Billion TARP, $4.4 Trillion QE, And 6 Years of LIRP/ZIRP
Hey, nothing new in Domestic Infrastructure problems. President Barack Obama has Ignored the problem as much as his own black people, the Poor, and the Decades of Attacks on the US Middle Class.
These are some of the Issues that Barack Obama could Address if he was a Patriot, the Counter Intelligence Operations conducted against the US Citizens:
1913 - Federal Reserve Act, Formed in Secret by Cabal of Bankers
1913 - No History or Data on Banking Family Dynasties from Politicians about those that Fund War
1914 - World War I, Who Funded participated in Causing
1939 - World War II, Who Funded participated in Causing
1945 - United Nations formed, Anglophile Project, CFR, Justification of Globalism
1950 - Korean War, Justification for UN, Globalism, Success of CFR
1964 - Gulf of Tonkin, Who Made a Lot of Money from this
1964 - Vietnam War, French fought there 10 years and failed, why did USA have to go fight 3,000 miles from home
1968 - US Discovers that some Wealthy People don't pay tax due to Tax Law Loopholes
1979 - Intelligence Finding Signed by Jimmy Carter,
1980 - G.H.W. Bush CIA Director becomes US VICE President,
1985 - Iran Contra Affair,
1989 - Invasion of Panama,
1990 - Persian Gulf War,
1990 - Govt Refuses to Collect Data on Cost of War for Iraqis who were Bombed for a Decade after Persian Gulf War
1992 - Energy Policy Act (H.W. Bush)
1994 - NAFTA, Deregulation of Trade, 3 Nations (W. Clinton)
1994 - Free Trade Begins to Devastate US Manufacturing Jobs,
1996 - Energy Deregulation (W. Clinton, followed by ENRON Scandal)
1996 - Telecommunications Act (W. Clinton, cross ownership)
1998 - Clinton's Kosovo War (over 60 Days)
1998 - Citicorp & Travelers Insurance Merger
1999 - Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act (Phil Gramm, W. Clinton, followed by 2008 Financial Crisis)
1999 - bombing campaign in Kosovo (W. Clinton, over 60 days)
2000 - Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 (P. Gramm, W. Clinton, derivatives)
2001 - Afghanistan War
2001 - Subprime Home sales & Financial Derivatives Take Off,
2002 - McCain–Feingold Act (G.W. Bush, Campaign Finance, soft money unlimited)
2003 - Iraq War, Fake Evidence of WMD
2003 - Govt Refuses to Collect Data on Cost of War for Iraqis
2005 - Energy Policy Act (G.W. Bush, subsidies, excluded clean air Water acts)
2005 - Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005 (BAPCPA).
2005 - CAFTA-DR Ratified, 2006 El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, Guatemala
2005 - US Military Spending Exponential by any measure
2005 - US Housing Market Bubble Tops out in October
2008 - After Presidential Election Financial Crisis is Declared out of the Blue
2008 - Liberal Darling B. Obama becomes War Monger, Rights taker, and Elevates Drone Assassinations "Obama Doctrine"
2008 - 2014 QE & LIRP/ZIRP (B. Bernanke, J. Yellen, B Obama)
2008 - 2015 Global Financial Crisis, no Formal Apology to Europe for selling Toxic Assets to their Investors
2009 - 2014 Continuing Resolutions in which Congress gives up Budget Powers
2009 - 2012 Hillary Clinton Email Secret Server
2010 - Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission (money is free speech for corps)
2011 - US combat in Libya (B Obama, over 60 days)
2014 - lift ban on crude oil exports (B Obama, Commodities Deregulation)
2015 - Openly Secret TPP & TAP Treaties, appear to be solely for the advantage of creating even more powerful International Corporations with No Borders, No Ethos, No God, No Patriotism, and little concern for a US Middle Class, or US Constitution, Ethos is Proclaimed Dead
Lady Liberty becomes a Caricature, or an Anachronism, Don't show up in Court without a Team of Lawyers.
USA now stands for State Authority, for Patriarchs, the Powerful men and women that are either the State, or Lawyers, Bankers, Lobbyist, King Makers, or International Corporate Executives.
2010 - Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission (money is free speech for corps)
I have no problem with that case. If the Sierra Club, ACLU, SPLC, NAACP, SEUI, NEA, Soros Hedge Funds, et al can, why can't Exxon? Why, because the Sierra Club gets to hide behind its 503 (c) designation?
When I think about it, we could shut down all Interest Groups and Politicians. Cut Politicians off from receiving gifts of any kind. Government Employees are already cut off from this kind of enticement.
Plus ACLU, SPLC, Sierra Club... and all our Politicians can Blog, write statements for Newpapers to print.
Yeah, maybe we nationalize 20 minutes per radio or tv station per candidate per election during the 6 months prior to the Election day.
Just end Lobbying and Campaign Contributions even for SPLC and Sierra Club.
Plenty of Newspapers will print whatever the politician says, the problem is more about small voices or unpopular voices. But this is the challenge of a Democracy. And since it is a Democracy at the town, city, county, and state level it can work out okay... bloggers can dig in and get the material from these levels.
National level would dramatically change. I'm not sure how it would work out for interest groups at the national level. Chamber of Commerce and other groups will have banks of telephones to nail the politicians. But would national issues of Environment, Unions, inflation, or racketeering make it to the national level. I think it would work out better since individuals would make a difference.
Individuals would matter for the first time in 20 years.
The beauty of Ameikan fascism-socialism is that nearly the entire population and every interest has knowingly and with eager support built this grotesque society via tax policy. End all non profit tax status for any group or interest, including 'religion.' The nation would vomit all over itself at the costs of their former special favors.
It might be that a great increase in funding for AMTRAK would end up just subsidizing the train riders that commute from Wall Street to K street in DC. Let us all buy a better train so that the bot fly maggots of Wall Street can more easily access their host taxcows by bribing the filth in congress.
As an aside, the run from Chiacago to St.Paul Minnesota back in the old days of steam took an hour less than does AMTRAK iffn' it ever runs on time, which it does not. The Milwaukee Road had some rather luxurious accomodations that hit speeds of over 120 mph on that leg of the trip from Chicago to the west coast. It was scheduled that way, and not some publicity stunt. The high speed rail job that the governor of Wisconsin torpedoed had a few sections of proposed tracks that would allow for sustained speeds of as much as eighty miles per hour, only 30% less than what was routine in the 1930's and 1940's with steam locomotives and the far heavier cars.
I have used AMTRAK from Milwaukee to Libby Montana a few times. It beats air travel because the train has a stop in the town that I wanted as a destination. By air it terminated in Spokane which is hours away by rental car. I admit that my destination was a freak in that I could have walked to where I was going.
Another benefit of the train is that one gets to hobnob with Amish that use the trains. The Amish gals are astonishingly plain, and even ugly as a group. There was one that stood out so amazingly different from the rest of the 18-20 year olds that were on a religious trip of some sort. She was the best natural beauty that I have ever seen and obviously had different genes than the rest of the mousy Yoder types. I was civil and enjoyed my limited chatter with the group. I'll never have that opportunity again unless I ride the train along the upper boundary of the plains states which is unlikely.
The next year I booked a sleeper for myself and my wife. Her mother broke her hip and fouled up what I had planned upon as being a real getaway.
Forgive me for reminisces. One gets to meet all sorts on a longer train ride that I never would converse with in my regular mundane life.
Yeah, I liked a goodly number of the people that I met on a 36 hour ride. The worst were the retirees that got all of the heavily subsidized deals and were a general pain in the ass.Those were the fecks that least needed the subsidies.
My best to you all.
It all depends on whether you think public works are a positive addition to our society, and whether you view public works as something that should be a profitable venture, or not.
Our railroads are a joke. Our interstates and interstate bridges are falling apart. The problem is our rail system and our interstates are viewed as worthless because they are not making a profit, and they need to be owned by billionaires.
The next thing they are going to say is that because our interstate highways are not making a profit then they should also be owned by billionaires.
If the billionaires owned the railroads and the interstates - do you think THEY would fix the tracks, the crumbling bridges, or repair these roads? FUCK NO!!! That would require CAPEX expenditure and would take away from their greedy fucking profit motives.
I see a lot of people really pissed off about government these days. If you carried the thought that the government is increasingly owned by corporate interests then you might realize the root cause and the source of that anger.
So, 2 billion a year for Amtrac is too much and 85 billion a month for Wall Street is too little!
Got it!
Or one trillion a year to destroy other people's countries.
Did we just see an Amtrak-wings terror moment ? Not that I ever believe the official report, but what could be next ? Carmageddon ??
"I can't remember shit, The last word I heard was MK-ultra and I woke up with shit all over the place and some dead people." OR "I thought my gun (throttle) was on the left and Taser (brake) on the right side". OR did "Onstar" take over controls and fly into the building? FUCK !
When nothing makes sense anymore, anything can become reality ...... Sad, sad World
Last summer I drove from Texas to South Dakota to visit family.
I was some where along the boarder between Nebraska and Kansas on highway 81
I see a train coming on the tracks parallel to the highway -
An engine, two cars and a caboose - I LOL and said to my wife - LOOK a clown train!
As it went by I saw Amtrak on the side - and could see that there were only about 3 or 4 passengers on the train.
What a joke -
I was driving thru France on their super smooth autoroute and doing about 100mph. The TGV line runs parrell and it whizzed by like I was standing still. about 20 cars all full.
You were on a clown highway probably driving a clown car in a clown country, so of course it would be a clown train.
Lot's of anger there big boy... Are you off your meds again?
"An engine, two cars and a caboose - I LOL and said to my wife - LOOK a clown train!"
A caboose? really? What were you smoking - stop off in Colorado or something? A caboose was* a fixture on freight trains - not passenger trains.
So, try again with another disparaging tale. And try to get "boarder" sorted out from "border" on the next one.
* they have been replaced by an EOT device. No longer used in regular service.
The only outcome will be more TaxPayer money dispensed to an alleged private enterprise.
The first thing out the box this week was that a socialist-Fascist DemPerv Congressman declared in a House hearing was that the death and destruction of the accident was a direct result of the Fascist-socialist GOProgs failure to dispense more TaxPayer money to this alleged private enterprise.
The GOP can't make the case in any conceived situation those elements of free enterprise versus Statism. I'm not sure they've ever been less connected to their official party platform. I renounce my "pledge."
If I run a train off the tracks and kill people, I am a "terrorist."
If I run a trian off the tracks and kill people, but I am a governmnet employee, it's and accident.
If I shoot an unarmed person fleeing from me in the back, I am a murderer.
If I shoot an unarmed person fleeing from me in the back, but I am a government thug, it's self-defense.
If I steal from my clients, I'm a thief.
If I steal from my clients, but I am a bankster and ex-government pol, I am a victim as well.
A strange brew is bubbling to the surface. Looks like beer, smells like something else entirely.
Liberty is a demand .Tyranny is submission.
I can literally ride my electric bike to the village trains station (all towns have train stations here), its a 45minute train ride to Amsterdam Airport (underground station). Put bike in locker., norminal fee, and take a flight anywhere in the world. without everhaving gone outside since leaving the village station.
in fact, KLM has FLY/TRAIN tickets that includes the train trip to the airport from anywhere in Holland.
Small countries can effectively employ public transportation. But anyway, the urban planners in Europe have always been in charge of herding most folk into urbanization. I'm not hankering for that here. The automobile is an individualistic personal freedom conveyance.
EVidently you have never been to a city like the one near me. A true marvel of planning. bike and foot paths and parks everywhere. And we have CARS here also. EVeryone has one or 2 and 2 or 3 bikes. In fact, Europe has about 20 car companies. how many does the USA have?
I've lived in Germany. I don't want marvels of planning by the bureaucratic class.
Basically three car companies since the Big Three enjoined the federal gov't to crush the hundreds of other manufacturers decades ago.
How large is the car-buying tax in Amsterdam? 100% or 200%?
That's why public tranport is so popular. Their gov'ts have legislated and regulated the automobile out of reach for large swaths of the population. Part of the urban planner tool box.
NO one ''herds'' anyone here, Try blowing your smoke up someone else's ass. In fact I experience much more personal freedom here than I ever had in the USA.
Urban Planner profession by definition seeks to herd the population for the sake of efficiencies. BTW, how bout an example of "much more personal freedom" while we enjoy your...blowing smoke up all our asses.