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What A Cashless Society Would Look Like

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Erico Matias Tavares via Sinclair & Co.,

Calls by various mainstream economists to ban cash transactions seem to be getting ever more louder.

Bills and coins account for about 10% of M2 monetary aggregates (currency plus very liquid bank deposits) in the US and the Eurozone. Presumably the goal of this policy is to bring this percentage down to zero. In other words, eliminate your right to keep your purchasing power in paper currency.

By forcing people and companies to convert their paper money into bank deposits, the hope is that they can be persuaded (coerced?) to spend that money rather than save it because those deposits will carry considerable costs (negative interest rates and/or fees).

This in turn could boost consumption, GDP and inflation to pay for the massive debts we have accumulated (leaving aside the very controversial idea that citizens should now have to pay for the privilege of holding their hard earned money in a more liquid form, after it has already been taxed). So at long last we can finally get out of the current economic funk.

The US adopted a policy with similar goals in the 1930s, eliminating its citizens’ right to own gold so they could no longer “hoard” it. At that time the US was in the gold standard so the goal was to restrict gold. Now that we are all in a “paper” standard the goal is to restrict paper.

However, while some economic benefits may arguably accrue in the short-run, this needs to be balanced in relation to some serious distortions that could rapidly develop beyond that.

Pros and Cons

To be most effective, banning cash would most likely need to be coordinated between the US and the EU. Otherwise if only one of the two Western economic blocks were to do it, the citizens of that block might start using the paper currency of the other, thereby circumventing the restrictions of this policy. Can’t settle your purchase in paper euros? No problem, we’ll take US dollar bills.

This is just one aspect that can give us a glimpse of the wide ranging consequences this policy would have. Let’s quickly consider some pros and cons, as we see them:

Pros:

  • Enhance the tax base, as most / all transactions in the economy could now be traced by the government;
  • Substantially constrain the parallel economy, particularly in illicit activities;
  • Force people to convert their savings into consumption and/or investment, thereby providing a boost to GDP and employment;
  • Foster the adoption of new wireless / cashless technologies.

Cons:

  • The government loses an important alternative to pay for its debts, namely by printing true-to-the-letter paper money. This is why Greece may have to leave the euro, since its inability or unwillingness to adopt more austerity measures, a precondition to secure more euro loans, will force it to print drachma bills to pay for its debts;
  • Paper money costs you nothing to hold and carries no incremental risk (other than physical theft); converting it into bank deposits will cost you fees (and likely earn a negative interest) and expose you to a substantial loss if the bank goes under. After all, you are giving up currency directly backed by the central bank for currency backed by your local bank;
  • This could have grave consequences for retirees, many of whom are incapable of transacting using plastic. Not to mention that they will disproportionately bear the costs of having to hold their liquid savings entirely in a (costly) bank account;
  • Ditto for very poor people, many of whom don’t have access to the banking system; this will only make them more dependent, in fact exclusively dependent, on government handouts;
  • We wonder if the banks would actually like to deal with the administrative hassle of handling millions of very small cash transactions and related customer queries;
  • Illegal immigrants would be out of a job very quickly – a figure that can reach millions in the US, creating the risk for substantial social unrest;
  • If there is an event that disrupts electronic transactions (e.g. extensive power outage, cyberattack, cascading bank failures) people in that economy will not be able to transact and everything will grind to a halt;
  • Of course enforcing a government mandate to ban cash transactions must carry penalties. This in turns means more regulations, disclosure requirements and compliance costs, potentially exorbitant fees and even jail time;
  • Banning cash transactions might even propel the demise of the US dollar as the world’s reserve currency. The share of US dollar bills held abroad has been estimated to be as high as 70% (according to a 1996 report by the US Federal Reserve). One thing is to limit the choices of your own citizens; another is trying to force this policy onto others, which is much harder. Foreigners would probably dump US dollar bills in a hurry and flock to whichever paper currency that can offer comparable liquidity.

In light of the foregoing does banning cash transactions make sense to you? Aren’t the risks at all levels of society just too large to be disregarded?

Unintended Consequences

Paper money can be thought of as a form of interest-free government borrowing and therefore as a saving to the taxpayer. Given the dire situation of Western government finances, probably the very last thing we should do right now is to ban cash transactions.

Think about it. If the government prints bills and coins to settle its debts, rather than issuing bonds, it does not add to its snowballing debt obligations. Of course the counterargument is that this might result in significant inflation once politicians put their hands directly on the printing press. But isn’t this what the mainstream economists are so desperately trying to do to avoid deflation?

And it’s not like people in the West have tons of cash under the mattress. Let’s do the math. If only 30% of US paper money is held by residents, this is only about 2% of GDP, and probably unevenly distributed. It is therefore very dubious that any boost to economic activity will be that significant. In fact there is no empirical evidence that demonstrates this policy will work as intended (not that this has ever stopped a mainstream economist)

Moreover, an economy’s ability to create money would be even more impaired if its banking system were to crash – exactly at the time when it would need it the most. In reality it could be hugely deflationary because there would be no other currency alternatives. Talk about unintended consequences.

As to who could replace the US in providing paper liquidity to the world, we don’t need to think too hard. China will surely not ban cash transactions given that almost a billion of its citizens are still quite poor and most have no access to banking services (plus it seems that their own economic advisors are much more sensible). Replacing the US in offshore cash transactions would create substantial demand for the Chinese yuan, at that stage without any real competition from other major economies as presumably none would be using paper.

It is therefore doubtful that US political leaders would ever endorse such a policy; they would be effectively giving up on an incredible advantage – the US dollar ATM, to the benefit of their main geopolitical competitors. However, given the considerable influence of mainstream economists in financial and political circles this cannot be ruled out, especially during a crisis.

And it would be just the latest in a set of unprecedented economic policies:

“A depression is coming? Let’s put interest rates at zero. The economy is still in trouble? Let’s have the central bank print trillions in new securities. The banks are not lending? Let’s change the accounting rules and offer government guarantees and funds. People are still not spending? Let’s have negative interest rates. The economy is still in the tank? LET’S BAN CASH TRANSACTIONS!”

More Central Planning

The problem is that central planners never know how and where to stop. If a policy doesn’t work, they just find a way to tinker somewhere else – and with more vigor. Devolving the initiative back to the private sector is never an option.

Micromanagement of every single detail of our economic lives thus seems to be inevitable. And at that point there will be no more free markets. As pointed out by Friedrich von Hayek, “the more the state plans the more difficult planning becomes for the individual.”

Banning cash transactions seems like yet another excuse to postpone implementing real solutions to our financial problems. How can we have sustainable growth in the economy if:

  • The banks are not solid enough to lend?
  • Consumers are not solid enough to borrow?
  • Overindebted municipalities, states and governments seek ever more tax revenues?
  • An already overburdened private sector is underwriting the cost of every policy error?

The guys and gals who generate real wealth and employment need encouragement and support, not more penalties on how they choose to go about their business.

A cash ban does not address any substantive issues. What is needed is a sensible economic proposal and above all political courage to implement it, which so far seems to be lacking.

There are no free lunches in economics. A cashless society is promising to have very tangible costs to our liberties and future prosperity.

 

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Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:37 | 6111012 GoldenGeezer
GoldenGeezer's picture

There is a tipping point for every society.

OT but I think that this guy has reached his.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3087995/Kansas-furniture-store-o...

 

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:54 | 6111093 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

There is no where to run ... unless you move to a place no one else wants to live. Then, one might have a shot at self governance for a while, but only until everyone else notices one has stuff then they will move in and take it ... which is back to square one ...

Regards,

Cooter

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:12 | 6111136 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

The authors bring up a good point that the move to all-digital currancy would have to be coordinated more or less globally.  That would take some time to implement even if plans were already made and ready to go.  

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:18 | 6111149 Waylon Bits
Waylon Bits's picture

A word to the power elite.... cashless society is the last mistake in your error prone lives you make.

Bring it.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:22 | 6111163 InjectTheVenom
InjectTheVenom's picture

I love the smell of desperation in the morning !

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 18:12 | 6111332 espirit
espirit's picture

Beans, Boolits, Bullion.

Tide, rice, tampons, seeds, guillotines.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 19:12 | 6111524 MonetaryApostate
MonetaryApostate's picture

How many banking jobs will go bye bye thanks to algos & software??

The impact on the real economy will be devastating at the very least...

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 19:40 | 6111614 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

JFC, are we writing software to steal from us now? Humans are so lazy ...

Regards,

Cooter

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 20:28 | 6111752 LianaKaulitz
LianaKaulitz's picture

You live and you learn
https://youtu.be/llbzUyv1CLU

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 21:10 | 6111860 Keyser
Keyser's picture

There is no where to run ... unless you move to a place no one else wants to live. 

You obviously have not been looking very hard as there are lots of places on the planet to escape the insanity and live in peace... Now, if you want to stay in the USA geo-political-economic matrix, then best of luck to you, although I give you 1 out of 10 chance of survival... 

This is all just more bullshit, as 2/3 of the worlds economies are still on a cash basis and zero chance they will go cashless... You want to bend over for US hegemony, then stay in Murka or Yurrup and have their edicts shoved up your ass... 


Tue, 05/19/2015 - 21:21 | 6111906 Redneck Hippy
Redneck Hippy's picture

If we couldn't use cash for our illicit activities, the society would lose a very important safety valve.  It wouldn't be pretty.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 21:46 | 6111994 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

Welcome to Bartertown!  We are all mad max now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80B9srKQnI0

 

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 21:55 | 6112025 CH1
CH1's picture

Pro: Enhance the tax base

WTF! Increased theft is "Pro"?

Statist, criminal shit.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 22:01 | 6112041 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

no cash society:

babysitter: you only get paid at the end of the calendar month with tax taken out and a 401 contribution

street beggar: sorry, you'll have to invoice me

donation to your church: paypass swipe, please. Of yes, of course, every card swipe the banks get to keep $1.50 'transaction fee' 

and the human interactions that make a civilisation go round grind to a standstill along with the wheels of industry

stack silver - in coin form, not bars

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 00:21 | 6112406 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

The fact that the so called gov is williing to up their " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seigniorage " is a huge tell.

Who would want to give up a business where you make something for literally 2 cents and sell it for a $100?

What % profit is that?

Stinks....

 

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 00:34 | 6112433 MonetaryApostate
MonetaryApostate's picture

Here is another person's perspective on the subject...

http://www.fourwinds10.net/siterun_data/business/currency/news.php?q=143...

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 00:36 | 6112440 Four chan
Four chan's picture

if you dont hold gold and silver you already live in a cashless society.

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 00:55 | 6112478 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

Maybe the Anti Christ is AI taking over, just sayin'. Sumptin' fowl a comin'.

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 07:54 | 6112903 N2OJoe
N2OJoe's picture

This guy got some of his pro's and con's mixed up.

Illegal immigrants would be out of a job very quickly – a figure that can reach millions in the US, creating the risk for substantial social unrest

Somehow he got confused and listed that under cons.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 20:54 | 6111828 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

Water. Wagons, Wampum and Winchesters

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 20:55 | 6111834 stant
stant's picture

And cordless saws all to cut down the cell , survallence towers

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 00:01 | 6112364 MonetaryApostate
MonetaryApostate's picture

Drones.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 20:42 | 6111803 duo
duo's picture

Tide, 9mm and 50 cal ammo, cigarettes, booze.  All of these will become currency.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 21:07 | 6111864 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Go watch "The Road", then get back to us with revisions to your list... 

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 21:20 | 6111900 ZeroPoint
ZeroPoint's picture

If America devolves into 'The Road', it's all over anyway.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 21:36 | 6111960 Slomotrainwreck
Slomotrainwreck's picture

When they control the transactions, The first to become unauthorised will be the preious metals.

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 00:58 | 6112481 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

.44 cal is the biggest I can afford

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 00:05 | 6112372 MonetaryApostate
MonetaryApostate's picture

It is all over anyway, the elite WILL remove cash, they will collapse the markets, they will institute digital banking, and NO there will be jobs for you.  They do NOT give a fuck about the 99.99%, get that truth through your head folks, they have NOTHING TO LOSE by doing whatever they want.  They will do what they want, when they want, and there isn't a damn thing any of us can do to stop it, period.

The Road is coming for the world at large, believe it.  (They don't joke about what they put in movies, not one iota, Elysium is coming, bank on it!)

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but reality bites, and it's not my fault these people are so damn greedy & selfish.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 22:56 | 6112249 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Beans, Beer, Bread, Bullets

Meat, Meds

Toiletries (Tampons, TP...), Tide, Tequila.

Veggies, Virgins, Vodka.

All of these will become valuable.  Stackers will be trading their pile of Precious for Stuff Of Life.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 22:17 | 6112102 Talcott
Talcott's picture

Aye Waylon....

 

...they will have to create chaos and violence to have any hope 

 

of that trope not hanging from a rope.

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 03:28 | 6112631 chalcedonite
chalcedonite's picture

Yep!  They may have power but they don't have dominion.  For example, the following story is from a study of the FairFax Resolves... from the early days of our republic:  "Now one of the things that was common in those days to was the right to print your own money. Did you know that right was only eliminated by congress a hundred years ago? In California there was a great deal of privately minted money. Now if you minted a bad coin it wouldn’t move, and they would say “Oh well, John Doe there is producing coins that are no good. Don’t take his money. But if Moffat and company, that was one of the companies that was making gold coins, if they were making good coins everybody would say “I want Moffat’s Coins.” Now in the early days of California after the Gold rush, there would there was practically no American money printed in California, they were way out there in the wilderness, at the other end of the country. So what did they do? Individuals or companies began minting their own coins. Gold coins. They are worth a lot of money today. And everybody preferred them. As a matter of fact a little after the war when they were making greenbacks, if you went to California and you had a wad of greenbacks, and you went into a store and bought something with a greenback, you bought it once. They didn’t want the greenbacks. So the next time you went into the store and tried to buy something, you’d get “sorry, we’re all out.”   “But I see them over there, a whole stack of them.” “Well, we’re sorry, they are all spoken for.” They didn’t want your paper. They had to take it according to the government. But the next time they were all out of everything you wanted. So if you wanted to back there and buy something you’d better go out and work for some gold money, and then go back jingling the gold coins and say “I’m here to buy something.”  http://www.pocketcollege.com/beta/index.php?title=Course_-_American_Hist...

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 19:56 | 6111667 Perimetr
Perimetr's picture

here's another set of ideas:

END THE FEDERAL RESERVE

PUT THE BANKSTERS IN PRISON

RETURN TO THE GOLD STANDARD

 

A "CASHLESS" SOCIETY THAT GIVES TOTAL CONTROL TO THOSE RUNNING THE COMPUTERS

IS A FASCIST DREAM COME TRUE

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 20:27 | 6111746 Perseus son of Zeus
Perseus son of Zeus's picture

A cashless society is how they shove bitcoins down your throat.

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 04:11 | 6112673 JustUsChickensHere
JustUsChickensHere's picture

Bullshit .... Bitcoins are exactly 'cash' - but digial rather than analogue (PM's)

(1) NOT shoved down your throat - strictly optional, private money

(2) Peer to Peer - no bank needed

(3) Capital controls Impossible

(4) Freeze your account? Impossible.

(5) Arbitrary 'printing' - no ... money supply is finite and predictable (unlike FRNs)

 

If you are going to criticize Bitcoin, at least complain about it's actual problems.

 

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 05:27 | 6112747 crazytechnician
crazytechnician's picture

Slow down , That is probably about 80 points above his IQ score , you have to explain bitcoin slooowly - try to figure how you would explain bitcoin to somebody who is mentally retarded , that way you may get somewhere.

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 08:22 | 6112959 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Exactly, utterly without a clue.  I also like florin coin(FLO) because of the Alexandria Project and the Chinese seem to be piling into Blackcoin(BLK)

The Bitcoin Channel

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 13:11 | 6113996 Perseus son of Zeus
Perseus son of Zeus's picture

I'll get you coin-fucks if it's the last thing I do!

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 21:26 | 6111925 turnoffthewater
turnoffthewater's picture

"Pro

Enhance the tax base, as most / all transactions in the economy could now be traced by the government;"

Sure they will trace the money, just like the draw down on the money markets back when some group stole 550 billion.

http://www.jrdeputyaccountant.com/2009/02/bank-run-which-shall-not-be-named-91808.html

What a joke the three branches of govt have become. Tilt, start game over

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 00:42 | 6112439 MonetaryApostate
MonetaryApostate's picture

I'm afraid there will be no more start over once the game is over....  It will be like "The Road" for many people, for sure.

The Christian all believe that the RFID implant is the mark of the beast & they believe if you take it, your are damned to hell for eternity..  Good luck getting any christian to take that mark, in any form, they would rather starve to death, which is just fine by the elite.  (They get what they wanted to do anyway, kill the Christians)

Tick Tock people, time is running out, and if you think digital currency/banking is the answer, then you are defnitely one ignorant person.

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 03:22 | 6112625 Perseus son of Zeus
Perseus son of Zeus's picture

"Sure they will trace the money"

Probably only trace it on the debt slaves. You and I both know the Pentagon will not be questioned when another 2 Trillion fucking dollars goes missing.

"Didn't we have a few more pallets of J-confetti in the warehouse for those ISIS/Israel guys? Where did that go?"

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 07:54 | 6112905 MonetaryApostate
MonetaryApostate's picture

News flash, we are ruled by a Fascist Kleptocracy / Oligarchy / Corporatocracy...

Translated, get ready for cashless societies, they are coming, 100% for certain.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:48 | 6111250 Ajax_USB_Port_R...
Ajax_USB_Port_Repair_Service_'s picture

I have property in an area that no one wants to live. My next door neighbors over there are preppers. They have a high privacy fence, but everyone knows what they are doing. If disaster strikes, people with no food, but plenty of guns and ammo, will 'own' the prepers supplies in short order. Damned if you do - damned if you don't.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 18:14 | 6111338 espirit
espirit's picture

Molon Labe.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 19:30 | 6111573 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

We will I can assure the PTB find a way to value our labor, our inputs of brain, labor and assets will be found.  We will bypass you and we will defend freedom to choose fair valuations.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 19:46 | 6111641 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

If disaster strikes, people with no food, but plenty of guns and ammo, will 'own' the prepers supplies in short order.

Another 'tard who needs to send his script back to rewrite. If you really believe that, why not try and knock 'em off now, tough guy? Just based on what you wrote, I wouldn't be surprised if dealing with YOU isn't high on their checklist, fucking idiot.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 20:17 | 6111713 NoDecaf
NoDecaf's picture

If those are real preppers you can bet they are very aware of the douche bag living next door and probably have him on their list of things to do when TSHTF.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 22:04 | 6112054 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

does that retard really think the preppers are prepared only for systemic collapse, but not a collapse in orderly behaviour of his neighbours

thats what 'prepper' means... they are PREPARED dickhead

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 20:18 | 6111714 NoDecaf
NoDecaf's picture

.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 22:40 | 6112196 auntiesocial
auntiesocial's picture

DHS buys millions of bullets, military urban warfare excercises, remove cash from strapped Americans, FED has to admit mistakes, Derivatives Market, Bond turn to shit....

WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 07:55 | 6112907 MonetaryApostate
MonetaryApostate's picture

Hyperinflation comes to mind...

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 23:27 | 6112312 seek
seek's picture

Move to the middle of nowhere and look poor.

Looking poor is the new camo. If you drive a beater or a low-cost car, and live in a doublewide, you could have a basement with gold-plated bathroom fixtures and a Dom Perignon served by topless 18 year olds and no one would know (or care).

If they're going after people's savings because they're on the radar... stay off the radar and go stealth.

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 00:59 | 6112485 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

This basic premise eludes so many people, I stopped pointing it out. No one really thinks critically about anything anymore.

As I have said before in other "prepper" threads, one can't properly prepare for a life of not having what one has always had.

I am not looking forward to the future, or getting older. Getting old sucks, and I get "life NIRP" to deal with as a bonus ...

Regards,

Cooter

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:55 | 6111095 p00k1e
p00k1e's picture

Good find.

 

 

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 18:06 | 6111254 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Cashless = Control of People and  Markets

Capital is always at risk; our corporate rulers are taking it to full retard extreme to seize and hold those markets.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 20:44 | 6111809 chunga
chunga's picture

These pin-striped desperados would have to try to ban gold and silver too.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 23:04 | 6112263 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

they did it before; during a national emergency, they'll do it again.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:56 | 6111102 Payne
Payne's picture

This is not going to happen.  Really, how are Politicians and the entitled class going to pay for Hookers and Drugs ?  They need cash.

Sure they would like a cashless society for everyone else but they need cash for all their foibles/faults.

Explain how the elites are going to operate in a cashless society and still have all the vices !

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:09 | 6111128 Tek Kinkreet
Tek Kinkreet's picture

paypal

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 19:10 | 6111517 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Paypal With Benefits- For all your indescretions

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 00:07 | 6112376 MonetaryApostate
MonetaryApostate's picture

Paypal is your friend...   https://youtu.be/z19V6sm17wg

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:16 | 6111141 Trucker Glock
Trucker Glock's picture

"Really, how are Politicians and the entitled class going to pay for Hookers and Drugs ?"

Threat of violence.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:50 | 6111230 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

"Threat of violence."

No way - hoes & blow = gdp.  Slutkoins maybe.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:46 | 6111243 agent default
agent default's picture

Threaten a drug dealer or a pimp with violence.  I dare you, go threaten a dealer.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 23:23 | 6112301 Trucker Glock
Trucker Glock's picture

You underestimate the thugs the wealthy can afford to hire.

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 03:51 | 6112653 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

You overestimate the effects of thugs against an armed and willing population.    Push people to the breaking point ... they'll fight.  War of assassins ... but they will fight.

 

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 23:58 | 6112361 tarabel
tarabel's picture

 

The same way the cops do it.

"You're coming to my party tonight, right? Or do I have to find something in your purse tomorrow?"

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 01:02 | 6112487 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Um, they get a job as a maid (or whatever), with seven times the pay (to start - goes down hill over time) to take it in the ass.

Don't see how drugs are different. It will just be booked as BS cash flow, same as any crooked business. Just means taxes get paid (and the police won't knock if it is approved).

Would you take a job making six figures being a butler (drug dealer) where the market rate was 20k?

Regards,

Cooter

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:22 | 6111161 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"There is a tipping point for every society."

You know what, you're right.  These soon to be dead folk don't understand mans nature.  When the fuckers we entrusted to govern us become our enemy and our very lives are at stake, then you shall see who we really are.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:25 | 6111166 InjectTheVenom
InjectTheVenom's picture

i was just at my local Walmart yesterday & saw "who we really are" .... 

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:31 | 6111189 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Maybe you can relate to that and call it we, but that's not us bro.  You think the FSA is crazy?   My brothers and I can raise hell on earth like you've never imagined.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 19:13 | 6111532 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

That's the spirit! Getting really tired of the "all Americans resemble manatees" meme.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 19:51 | 6111652 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

People of Walmart in Borat banana hammocks is actually a frightening thought.

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 02:14 | 6112575 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Hope you're right.  Hope you're right. 

Being too old to participate physically, but looking at the behavior of people across the country,  I am not inspired or optimistic.  

I can only hope that the physical courage will come from a brave and patriotic minority of 10%.  Even at 1%, that would be a ground-shaking 3.3 million Patriots who "Love the Dream that was America and it's true* Constitution", where the Right and Duty to issue debt-free Currency is the sole role of the US Government, and not some secrets-riddled, private cartel of global banksters. 

* pre-1913

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 07:57 | 6112904 crazytechnician
crazytechnician's picture

Money should be privately issued. And there should be private competition to issue private money. If government is given free reign to issue money guess what happens ? Every time you see hyperinflation in the blink of an eye. The creation of money cannot be entrusted to humans , and especially governments cannot be trusted with this process , it will always get corrupted , pass the problem over to computers & a math algo that emulates a digital gold standard.

bitcoin , BTChezz..

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 20:18 | 6111716 crisrose
crisrose's picture

Fat?  Ugly?  Mouth breathing 70 IQ shabbily dressed, sleazy imbeciles???

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 20:36 | 6111785 EBT excepted
EBT excepted's picture

d'muzzies???

 

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 18:01 | 6111289 doctor10
doctor10's picture

Supposedly there has been a 50% drop in money velocity since 2008-a good part of "our" problem.

this can only magnify a problem of that sort even more!!!

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 20:11 | 6111699 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

A cashless society would be feudalism 2.0. The King in his Bank, the serfs in the shacks they are "permitted" to live in.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 20:50 | 6111817 Perseus son of Zeus
Perseus son of Zeus's picture

In their printed shacks.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 20:33 | 6111773 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

first bullet in the "Pros" section underscores the real problem...

taxes won't be lowered and can't be lowered...

the real problem is tax rates are too high vs. real wages... period, end of story

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 21:20 | 6111898 sgorem
sgorem's picture

didn't read the article, and this isn't a reply to 'GGeezer, but i've been cashless for a long fucking time hombres! cashless, broke, busted, poor since these fucking moronic criminals took over the banks in particular, and the world in general. try whatever-in-the-fuck-you-wanna-try-next-(assholes)-cause-it-won't-matter-to-us impoverished slaves anyhow.

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 00:16 | 6112398 PhoQ
PhoQ's picture

Didn't read the article, ready to comment.

Ignorant and proud of it. Welcome, American.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 23:01 | 6112258 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

A ban on cash is a "Declaration Of War", by "The Regime", on "We The People". 

Molson Labe, MFers!

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 23:21 | 6112297 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

The Most Dangerous CON is...

 

1. YOU BECOME THE WALKING, TALKING CURRENCY (via digital and biometric tech)

2. REAL-TIME FINANCIAL AND GEOGRAPHIC TRACKING OF 'CURRENCY'/SERF

WELCOME TO FEUDALISM 2.0 -- THE GLOBAL GAME.  Brought to you by 666 and his Satanic Army of Zi'Borgs.

The Monty Python Foot-Stomp comes to mind.

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 01:08 | 6112495 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Think like a billionaire ...

Most of the population is approaching obsolesce. With automation and such, the need for uni-brow labor monkeys is rapidly fading. Their role of consumer to drive the machine is tapped out. Most of the major markets are at tipping points for age/demographics. I suspect they will sort the population and try to collect the useful productive types and shape them into a slave class of some sort - the rest are fodder.

I mean, fuck, if you were a billionaire, would YOU keep the FSA? Fuck no. They are just a stepping stone to political control and will be "disposed" once they have served their purpose. If the global population dropped by a fat 75% over the next 50 years - and stabliized - many of our problems would fix themselves.

This is how I think they look at it.

Regards,

Cooter

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 01:17 | 6112509 ersatz007
ersatz007's picture

Agreed. The "technological singilarity" is coming and there will very little work for the population to do. The "consumer" economy is coming to an end. Thereafter it's just a matter of the incredibly rich, who own all the machines and networks, divvying up what's left of the planet. Like you did there will be a "worker" population that will help in maintenance and upkeep. Perhaps even they will become obsolete. Who knows.

Regardless, now it's just a matter of watching it unfold and how the population reduction will occur. Nukes, Ebola, etc... Either way I will not be surprised.

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 04:10 | 6112671 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Agree with you and Ersatz007 (Replacement007).

If it were me, I'd filter out 70-80% of the low IQ (IQ<90) and low EQ types. IOW,  "Blessed are the Dumb and Cruel" does not work on me.

Bye bye junk DNA and Neanderthal mentality of interpersonal relationships.  Time to truly weed out the Caveman recessive gene that refuses to evolve. 

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 06:23 | 6112802 olenumbersix
olenumbersix's picture

Missing some cons. 1. Loss of diversity. I.E. some in cash some in the bank (most in au and ag) 2. Way too easy for the banks to cheat even more than they do now. I.E. Bank funds too low just add a zero. oh, and btw politicians can run a printing press, but can't type numbers into a computer ? b.s.  They plan to take our money, and lets face it having it in the bank makes it easy, easy. Not all at once mind you just a bit here, and a bit there. Let you get use to the idea first by taking a little at first then slowly increasing.  Would be great for metals though.

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 14:52 | 6114500 PTR
PTR's picture

There is a tipping point for every society.

OT but I think that this guy has reached his.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3087995/Kansas-furniture-store-o...

 

 

If Chicago's rats want to go to Kansas, well, ok.  One less minion of potential chaos here.

 

Sorry 'bout that Kansas.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:37 | 6111013 BoPeople
BoPeople's picture

Yup, not seeing how any of this helps anyone except criminal bankers who are afraid of losing their power.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:26 | 6111171 Zpigs
Zpigs's picture

So you're telling me it's inevitable?

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:37 | 6111014 CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

Fuck The Fed!

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:39 | 6111024 10mm
10mm's picture

It's totally over if this occurs. 

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:48 | 6111068 commander gruze?
commander gruze?'s picture

Quite the opposite. Digital cash - bitcoin - will flourish. Good luck banning that!

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:51 | 6111083 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Don't need to ban when you can compromise. Didn't you hear about Blythe's new startup and JPM/GS intrustions into BTC?

BTC is as good as dollar digiBux.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:03 | 6111118 commander gruze?
commander gruze?'s picture

I did hear indeed. Unlike dollars, there is no privileged players on bitcoin network. The most important and underappreciated feature of bitcoin: decentralized.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:15 | 6111140 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Eliminating cash would create the ability to audit essentially every purchase made from any entity that has to pay or collect some form of tax.  It would be a simple move to ban the use of BC such purchases, relegating BC to the black/barter economy.

The elimination of cash could be very bad for BC.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:33 | 6111194 commander gruze?
commander gruze?'s picture

Let me share my first hand experience of "the black market" in former communist conutry. It was in fact THE market. While the official economy was in doldrums, the system-D economy was thriving. The black market was everywhere and everyone participated, except maybe from few, high profile comrades.

And if you believe bitcoin will not do very well if cash is axed, surely you must hold consistent belief that it would be detrimental for gold and silver, too, no?

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:58 | 6111284 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

I think a cashless barter economy running behind a digital economy is going to be a different kind of animal than we've seen before.  If we can't purchase BCs or PMs with the new digital FRNs, or sell them for digital FRN, they are both going to have problems - especially with regards to proper and consistant valuation.    

If, for example, real property purchases for "one dollar and other valuable consideration" are no longer allowed - it's really going to be a pain in the ass (eg you can't record your under-the-table land purchase).  Of course, at that point, I'm not sure that the system will have much time left.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 18:54 | 6111472 espirit
espirit's picture

But, but, but...

Can you CONnect to the interwebz via solar panels?

Jus' axing'.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 20:26 | 6111740 Pseudonymous
Pseudonymous's picture

If the state's land title record is more important than who occupies it, who improves it, who defends it, and what everyone around (buyer, seller, neighbors, etc.) knows to be a valid purchase agreement, then you would probably not want to be there at all. I don't think it is a good idea to live in a place, and among people who don't respect your full property rights, and to fool yourself that private property still exists, unless you do want to live without any property.

But if you live in a place where people respect property rights only then does it make sense to think of land title records. And then a land title registry would be desirable only in order to facilitate exercising those already respected rights, rather than the other way around. If a record held by someone else, an "authority", is primarily what determines who will get to use "your" land in practice (backed by force), then you don't really own it. Whoever controls the record does.

If, on the other hand, the records can be kept by anyone and be unfalsifiable then you may have something useful and it just so happens that Bitcoin's blockchain is the best known thing that can solve this problem on a large scale (beyond just a local community) so we come full circle and realize that in any case we don't need any central authorities to record things or to issue money, and we don't even have to be restricted in any way without them. And we certainly don't lose anything of substance without FRNs.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 23:19 | 6112292 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

The State's land title records AND who occupies the land are both very important.  

I just don't want to buy the neighbor's 20 acres and then have to face some type of legal dispute where I can't even show clear title.   

Now, if the legal system goes tits-up, then all bets are off, but until then, being able to record deeds is pretty damn important for a large purchase like land.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 19:39 | 6111613 GoldSilverBitcoinBug
GoldSilverBitcoinBug's picture

Let me share my first hand experience of "the black market" in former communist country.

Ukraine ?

It seems it's pretty popular out there.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 20:55 | 6111830 espirit
espirit's picture

This time around, we're going to save the last bullet for the carpetbaggers.

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 02:43 | 6112600 commander gruze?
commander gruze?'s picture

Poland. I remember 80's was an awful time in Poland. Regarding some comments on blocking exchange between new digital fiat and crypto - back in the day, paper money was mostly useless - people had money they couldn't spend in legitimate way, so they just stopped using money for trade altogether. Petrol and toilet paper were the money du jour. And since bitcoin acts more like a physical commodoty than bank account, it's a perfect commodity-type money. Just like precious metals but easily transactable over the internet.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 20:28 | 6111751 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

It will definitely get my fat ass off the couch.......

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:40 | 6111030 Fun Facts
Fun Facts's picture

Cash and freedom are inexorably intertwined.

Which is why our ZWO overlords are pushing to ban it.

The first public call to ban cash came from Stanley Fischer.

Former head of the bank of Israel, now running the FED from behind grandma's curtain.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:44 | 6111049 Squid Viscous
Squid Viscous's picture

I am steadily adding to my MA and V positions... they win! and Goldbugs lose...

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:44 | 6111050 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Seriously. Those are the fucking Pros ????

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:45 | 6111053 Tek Kinkreet
Tek Kinkreet's picture

Bonus, they can track every dime we spend and everywhere we go, scan our houses for anything we shouldn't have, call it reasonable suspicion, arrest us for having it. You won't be able to buy without the barcode being involved.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:47 | 6111060 Billy Sol Estes
Billy Sol Estes's picture

Quiet weapons for a silent war.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:46 | 6111058 Billy Sol Estes
Billy Sol Estes's picture

Just closed my savings account today at one of the large US institutions. They looked pretty sad that I walked out with a large wad of cash. They asked what my reasoning was; was it their fees on savings accounts? Customer service? No... it was NIRP in Europe.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 18:31 | 6111393 Farmer Joe in B...
Farmer Joe in Brooklyn's picture

I wonder if there is a "special" Suspicious Activity Report (SAR) that they file when you close out for cash...? One that includes the special drone treatment....

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 19:46 | 6111638 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

i cash an $8k check about twice a week at wells fargo...yes that's about $64k a month.

they are all friendly and don't give me a hard time about it at all, they all recognize me there.

and my vendors appreciate being paid in cash, tend to give me better pricing on what i buy.

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 08:39 | 6113004 Billy Sol Estes
Billy Sol Estes's picture

Wow that is interesting, I wonder if your consistency is reason not to file a SARs.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:47 | 6111065 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Everyone has a price. Mine is $200,000 punched in Every January 1st with COLA. Think that should cover everything. 

 

/s. 

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:49 | 6111075 Bell's 2 hearted
Bell&#039;s 2 hearted's picture

under the table no likey (duh)

 

probably happen someday ... but it won't be for a long time (too many rich people making bank on cash business that would be negatively impacted ... these same people will donate $$s to pols leave things as is)

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:50 | 6111076 HobbyFarmer
HobbyFarmer's picture

Not a fan of religion here....but this reeks of the Mark of the Beast spoken of in the Book of Revelation.

 

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:52 | 6111085 Fun Facts
Fun Facts's picture

Then there's also the creepy part about the synagogue of satan [khazar satanist banksters & associates] running everything which totally pans out.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 19:42 | 6111626 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

i've never heard of a synagogue of satan.

i've heard of church of satan, though...from what i can tell it's folks with a christian background that tend to be satanists.

it's all rubbish anyhow, something to distract the peons with while they are being robbed.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 20:53 | 6111825 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

I think the wife went to one of their Wenesday night meet-and-greets.

Brought me home a slice of carrot cake. Very tasty.

 No devil's food was kind of funny though.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:53 | 6111089 Tek Kinkreet
Tek Kinkreet's picture

"Two pounds of wheat for a day's wages, and six pounds of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:54 | 6111094 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Cashless will not work outside western countries - the infrastructure simply does not exist.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 18:37 | 6111414 Farmer Joe in B...
Farmer Joe in Brooklyn's picture

Yup...take a trip to any Latin American or South American country. This would be the end of the dollar as world reserve currency.

Won't happen.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 19:17 | 6111541 Grosvenor Pkwy
Grosvenor Pkwy's picture

If the U.S. or Euro countries ban cash, then something will fill the void.

Gold or silver coins are a possibility, but I doubt they will be used for everyday transactions because most people will consider them to be too valuable to trade. Everyone would be happy to accept gold or silver, but not so happy to spend them except in unusual circumstances. People will use them as a long-term store of value.

The paper currency of some other country is the most likely possibility. A country with a strong currency and traditional values, such as Russian or Chinese. U.S. would lose its favored currency status very quickly once the U.S. dollar became non-usable for routine purchases. No point in holding a paper currency that you cannot buy anything with.

I would not like to be holding a large amount of U.S. dollar paper currency if laws against cash become more strict. Even now, cash is only useful for small-scale transactions, or secret transactions. We are getting closer and closer to legally banning cash day by day. I can buy a meal in a restaurant, or groceries, or relatively inexpensive items in stores, but I cannot use cash to buy a car, a house, land, or anything of significant value. So we are almost there now.

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 05:30 | 6112752 crazytechnician
crazytechnician's picture

bitcoin is ready and on standby.

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 09:53 | 6113224 Max Cynical
Max Cynical's picture

There's a third world contingent in all western countries...think of the homeless, poor, bad credit, no credit, elderly, etc...there's millions of people that are just surviving on a daily basis. They don't have access to banks, credit/debit cards and don't have the knowldge or the ability to learn how to function in a cashless society.

This would be an unmitigated disaster.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:57 | 6111105 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

How do you pay the teenaged babysitter?

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:07 | 6111125 Tek Kinkreet
Tek Kinkreet's picture

Scan their barcode off their smart phone with yours, transfer from one account to theirs electronically. Easy peasy. Alternatively, use paypal.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:35 | 6111203 Uber Vandal
Uber Vandal's picture

And what is the skim (fee) that PayPig gets from sending money?

This is a bankers wet dream, they can skim money off of one's money for each and every transaction, like a debit card, credit card, forever.

As Jello Biafra said, Give me Convenience or Give Me Death.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 20:37 | 6111787 Jorgen
Jorgen's picture

... or pay with Dwolla.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 20:55 | 6111833 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Quarter oz. of weed would work.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:57 | 6111106 Callz d Ballz
Callz d Ballz's picture

How about a Fedless society?

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:21 | 6111157 TalkToLind
TalkToLind's picture

Das Rayciss!  Or is it sexist?  Or anti-something or other...

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:21 | 6111159 newworldorder
newworldorder's picture

A heracy, worse than any religious heracy. The collective NO of the bankrupt thieves would be deafening.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 16:58 | 6111108 Bell's 2 hearted
Bell&#039;s 2 hearted's picture

and corrupt officials (like, all of them) will be paid off how? ... now that a stack of benjamins in envelope verboten?

 

 

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:11 | 6111135 Tek Kinkreet
Tek Kinkreet's picture

paypal

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 05:31 | 6112753 crazytechnician
crazytechnician's picture

bitcoin

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 22:40 | 6115936 Pseudonymous
Pseudonymous's picture

Won't work. The sender can easily reverse the transaction, thus defrauding the recipient. A politician being defrauded of his bribe has what recourse exactly?

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:10 | 6111132 Ajax_USB_Port_R...
Ajax_USB_Port_Repair_Service_'s picture

Well, if going cashless prevents just one convenience store stickup...

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:18 | 6111148 newworldorder
newworldorder's picture

Had not thought of that. It would cut down on store roberries if they installed store entry card readers on the entrance doors. One would need either a credit card or an EBT card to gain entry. All trackable off couse, to the nearest PD and IRS office.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:33 | 6111170 Ajax_USB_Port_R...
Ajax_USB_Port_Repair_Service_'s picture

Yes it could cut down on crime. But at what cost to freedom? I'm getting down votes! Guess no habla sarc?

Gave you an upvote.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 18:44 | 6111435 mt paul
mt paul's picture

gave you +1 for the 

 

 "no habla sarc" 

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 22:23 | 6112121 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

I'm giving you a down vote for whinging about votes.

Wed, 05/20/2015 - 00:23 | 6112408 PhoQ
PhoQ's picture

Sarcasm is wasted on the stupid.

But isn't that the point of sarcasm?

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:18 | 6111146 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

They can accomplish something very similar if they just banned or stopped the use of all Federal Reserve notes over $20. The little guys and elderly can transact in cash, but every major purchase will either be electronic or will stand out like a sore thumb when paid in a stack of small bills.

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:20 | 6111153 CHC
CHC's picture

Riots?!?  Bwahhhaaaaaaaaa  You'll have a damn insurrection on your hands!!  Stupid fucks!

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 17:27 | 6111176 ghostzapper
ghostzapper's picture

All about banning cash due to the fact that so little of it exists in physical form relative to all the funny money bullshit.  When there is a run on the system shit will get real ugly when peeps simply can't convert their "assets" or "holdings" into cash.  

Solution (from the Bankster Cabal point of view): ban cash so that everything is permanently stuck inside the unicorn-tooth fairy-everything is awesome ponzi scheme, piece of dogshit financial system.  

Tue, 05/19/2015 - 22:09 | 6111902 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

This frog has already been boiled. People are worried about a cashless society when direct deposits are already a standard in many institutions. Salaries are often issued directly, taxes directly subtracted, rents accepted electronically. Paying bills with bills is also rare.

We aren't discussing elimination of cash, but extermination of the miniscule amount of paper money that is exists in proportion to synthetic money and credit. It is already too late to object and complain.

Ending the Fed is the best solution, but not simply closing down shop, but eliminating every associate to make sure they don't come back with another bright idea.

The Fed isn't the first central bank entity in the US. It went through many incarnations. Cut off this head and another will grow. We have to make sure it doesn't happen again and the best way to do it is to enforce The Consitution.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!