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In No State Can A Minimum Wage Worker Afford A One Bedroom Apartment
Earlier this month we learned that in 21 out of the 26 OECD member countries that have a minimum wage, working 40 hours per week at the pay floor would not be sufficient to keep one's family out of poverty. That rather stunning revelation comes as Democrats in the US push for a $12 minimum wage by 2020 and as pressure grows on companies like McDonald’s to raise wages for its lowest-paid employees.
Of course rising minimum wages can also have the rather counterintuitive side effect of harming those they’re meant to help because after all, when the cost of labor goes up, employers may simply fire people or, as we saw yesterday when McDonald’s pledged to reduce the number of company-owned restaurants by 10% over the next several years, resort to other measures aimed at getting around pay floor hikes.
So while one can debate pros and cons of addressing abysmal wage growth by legislating a non-market-driven solution, what is not up for debate is this: it’s getting harder and harder to subsist above the poverty line for low-income workers.
In fact, as the following map shows, in no state can a minimum wage worker afford a one bedroom apartment.
Here’s some color from a study by the National Low Income Housing Coalition:
Rents for apartments have risen nationally for 23 straight quarters. As of the third quarter of 2014, rents were 15.2% higher than at the tail end of the Recession in 2009. Rising rents are an outcome of increased demand for rental housing. One recent study of 11 major cities found double-digit growth in the number of renters in nine of the 11 cities between 2006 and 2013. In the fourth quarter of 2014, the homeownership rate dropped to its lowest rate in twenty years and the rental vacancy rate fell to 7% as more households sought rental units. The downward pressure on vacancy rates directly impacts the rental housing market, making landlords less willing to offer rent concessions and more likely to increase rents. The tightening rental market has the most significant impact on low income renters.
So thank you Wall Street (and a hat tip to Alan Greenspan as well) for creating an entirely unsustainable housing bubble which finally collapsed on itself, turning a nation of homeowners into a nation of renters many of whom will now have to pony up everything they make each month to someone who may have gotten a landlord loan from Wall Street to buy up rental properties from home flippers who also got loans from Wall Street where some very clever investment bankers are busy securitizing these landlord and home flipper loans in order to sell billions in new ABS on the way to recreating the very same bubble only to have it burst all over again.
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oh this is simple to resolve...just raise the minimum wage to 25 bucks an hour.
Done...and...done!
That deserves a drink...hava nice weekend. ;-)
"working 40 hours per week at the pay floor would not be sufficient to keep one's family out of poverty"
Why do you have a family if you are only making the minimum wage? Minimum wage jobs are for kids. If you are 40 working at McDonalds for minimum wage, you have made some mistakes in your life. Just sayin....
Cause you can always count on Uncle Sugar to pick up the tab.
Protip: Minimum wage is not for preventing poverty. It's for people with absolutely no skills getting their first job, old guys who can hardly work but really need some extra cash because they didn't plan well in their youth, and housewives to earn some cash on the side for maybe 15 hours a week because Little Timmy is not providing them with enough gossip.
Who needs work when you can get 57k in EBT and other benifits from Barry
"that in 21 out of the 26 OECD member countries that have a minimum wage, working 40 hours per week at the pay floor would not be sufficient to keep one's family out of poverty."
And that most likely in all of the OECD countries the cost of government more than doubles the cost of living.
I think we're going about this whole minimum wage thing completely wrong. Mandating businesses that rely on cheap labor to pay a higher wage has little net effect on revenue for the state - it's sort of a wash bewteen increased payroll revenue for minimum wage workers but loss of the overall number of them, and increased numbers unemployed and/or on some kind of state aid vs. the remaining ones that need a little less state aid.
It's horribly wrong to have any government policy like this revenue-neutral. Like they do to their citizens, the state itself needs to be motivated by punishing disincentives to avoid certain actions. The only way to do that is to punish the state for minimum-wage workers. The only way to do that that I can think of is to - nationwide - remove any minimum wage requirement on employers, but exempt any wage below whatever the minimum wag is today from ANY form of state or federal payroll tax INCLUDING SS. There simply is not SS contribution (or ultimately, credit) for minimum-wage jobs.
First of all, you create a small number of additional minimum-wage jobs and the people earning minimum wage have more disposable income. More of that income is counted against state and federal aid programs, so you have some small effect on reduction of those numbers.
The greatest effect of doing this thought is to disincent the state (and federal) governments from having an economy based on minimum-wage workers. Wal*mart and COSTCO would NOT be attractive employers payroll-revenue wise, so you wouldn't waste millions on tax breaks to lure them in. What government WOULD be forced to do is concern themselves with keeping or attracting better-paying employers.
SO THE FUCK WHAT?
Minimum wage is for entry level jobs for TEENAGERS......
The real minimum wage should be ZERO,,,,,zeros.....
Pro Tip #2: Ten jobs, eleven people => wage = ten people hungry plus eleventh person starving. But apparently the starving guy can use his hunger as collateral, borrow some money, acquire some capital and become an ENTREPRENEURRRRRRRRRRR!!!! Apparently starvation makes you smarter too!
I used to worry about all them starving kiddies in Africa but I don't care now because I know that the hunger made them hungry and industrious and innovative and they all grew up and became successful ENTREPRENEURRRRRRRRRRS!!!
Pro Tip #3: You only have to worry about creating the right product at the right price. Someone else ALWAYS provides the rich customers.
Pro Tip #4: Keep your back to the wall so you can avoid the Pro's "Tip".
So, two min wagers move in together.
What.....a mother and 3 kids are trying to survive on their own on min wage?????
WTF are THEY thinking ?
Good news! Now all those minimum wage workers will quit their minimum wage jobs to become tradesmen and builders and then they will build more homes and the resulting over-supply will crush the price of housing and then they will be able to afford to buy the homes they built!
No?
NO????????????????????????
lol... Amen
I don't understand why no Capitalists ever pick up on this angle. I thought it was what they were all about.
A lot of good jobs went away in the "recession" with millions being forced to make adjustments they never thought they'd have to make. Hell, "good" jobs have been going away for decades now. Depending on circumstance, one might need to consider a fast-food job to maintain a cash-flow.
Joining the FSA is easier in some places/states/counties than others. "Means Testing" raises the bar too high for many to collect benefits. In some areas, applications for housing-assistance are oinly accepted for a few days at a time every few years after the backlog is worked through. If you want benefits, it's best to be disabled, or be a single woman with a couple of kids. Single, healthy males do not apply-- there's space for you in the big house.
Many families have fallen on hard times and will take whatever they can get: a job at McDonalds? Better a little bit of something than a whole lot of nothing...
40 working at McDonalds = Some mistakes!?!? I would say you have totally fucked up if that is your situation....
Tend to agree, but it's a big country with a lot of things being different between here and there, and some have been just barely hanging on for a long time.
Most of us reading this blog have an interest and awareness that many others do not have, and might come out better for our circumstance.
There are many who follow rules and law, but not all of us do, at least to a greater or lesser degree-- and perhaps this comes down to one's adversion to risk.
As an annecdote, I myself had a chance to broker a deal on the black-market that would have more than doubled my investment, but I chose not to due to a "bad-feeling." Perhaps I am just paranoid or a gutless pussy. But later I dove into the grey-market where I was earning 2-3X minimum wage, cash-weekly.
Point is, and probably as much as the one you are making, is that if I didn't find opportunity outside the law I would have not been able to eat, keep a roof over my head, or maintain a relationship with one who that matters most to me in this world. If I was working fast-food for minimum wage, I'd be dead by now (or wish I were)
You seem quick to blame an individual for their plight rather than those who created the plight. At least a 40 YO whose working at McDonalds has access to food to bring home and some money in the form of a paycheck. Some don't abandon their responsibilities just to "look out for number one."
At least a 40 YO whose working at McDonalds has access to food to bring home and some money in the form of a paycheck.
Yes, and it's worth "some money." as determined by the productivity of the job and worker in question not some idealized amount of money that is considered to be fair, whatever the hell that means. If I'm wrong then hire some neighborhood folks at $2400 per month each to do odd jobs around your home.
Some don't abandon their responsibilities just to "look out for number one."
Not looking out for number one is an abandoment of responsibilty. It means that you expect others to take care of you.
The Sicilians have a saying: "When a child is born, interest passes from one generation to the next."
"Looking out for number-one" and "Fuck 'em, I got mine" = responsibility?
It's a beautiful, sunny morning after a long, crappy and cold winter, and I just got through having a couple of beers with my neighbor, a recently-retired tradesman who had a lung removed last year (big-C). His brother invited him to go walleye fishing this weekend, but he declined, instead choosing to spend the time to work on fixing-up things around his property so that his wife (who has medical issues of her own) won't have to deal with them in the likelihood that he gets sick again.
Tell me again about responsibility...?
It's morning and you're already pounding 'em down...?
Sort of-- we had three Miller Lites. a couple of cigarettes each I put them aside and did 8-hours work on my own stuff, but he's still working on his, and probably til sunset.
I'm not sure if that counts as "pounding them down"-- by my writing, when I break-out and into the whiskey, believe me, bro, you will know it!!!
Re "Why do you have a family if you are only making minimum wage?":
I didn't marry my gf because I couldn't afford it so she left me.
We didn't have any kids.
The next man in her life might have given her kids. (I don't know. I haven't kept in touch).
And he might be on a minimum wage.
These days I make more than most people but my hours are very unreliable and I still have no confidence in supporting a family.
Evolution, bitchez.
Survival of the most optimistic / irresponsible.
If your working at Mcdonald's or similiar, you have no business makin' babies.
For some strange reason, the majority of people who agree with you tend to go extinct. And the majority of people who DISAGREE with you tend to have children, with whom they can share their life-views.
Just start a tech company, float the stock (no need to be profitable) and soon you will be a billionaire too.....
Better still, start a solar power company , get a billion dollar loan from your Dear Leader, declare bankrupcy and retire to the Bahamas.
Did we run out of cardboard boxes or something......?
Just need more government housing, aka prisons.
Can't these people just get Federal Renters Loans just like students in College?
Yeah I thought the forget me loans were bonus cover for the FSA.
WE GOT TO MAKE A FUCKING BROUCHER OR SOME THIng to get the word out
At least you got the right letters there, although they are frantically looking for home. And no, I wasn't the downvote.
The government created this problem - can't wait to see their "solution".
Print Moar
LEND Moar!
In other cuntries (sic), the guvmint "helps" the poor to buy houses by becoming "partners" with them - i.e. poor person buys half a house, guvt buys the other half, poor person makes half the repayments, guvfucks make other half of the repayments, poor person never fully owns house, guvfucks take their cut when poor person sells thus guaranteeing house prices stay high and unaffordable.
In case you haven't noticed, YOUR LAND IS BEING STOLEN FROM YOU AND MOST PEOPLE ARE TOO DUMB TO NOTICE.
The story goes that some Indians swapped their land for some beads (True or not? I don't know.)
That's nothing compared to now where people swap 25-40 years of hard labour (because they THINK they are involved in a Capitalist transaction - if you think you are involved in a Capitalist transaction and you don't know who the patsy is, then YOU are the PATSY) for the HOPE of one day owning a small piece of land - better hope you can hang on to that income or else that land is going to someone else ...
Absolutely true, though with roommates a minimum wage worker can swing a private bedroom in a 2-BR apartment in my state, at least.
This would be a more interesting chart as a time series to see when/where minimum wage earners could afford a 1BR.
As a new officer in the USAF I had to share a house with 3 other officers just to be able to eat. That was 30 years ago. No sympathy from me sorry
i'm sorry too. had to -1 that. not only did you volunteer to enforce the perversion of "freedom and democracy" that brought this neoliberal disease upon us, but you apparently don't understand WTF it was about or the world that common people have since been sentenced to . . . inch by inch by fucking inch.
sorry a whole bunch.
i was an officer a bit more than 30 years ago also. your comments offend me and the poster as well as 10's of thousands of other officers. monday is memorial day, i have fellow officers that have been killed and it offends me that offal like you have the pussy yellow stained behind a computer gall to post your foul little puss filled opinion, but i would still uphold my oath to defend your rite to say it with my life.
happy memorial day, fucking asshole
I was just an NCO but I retired. Thanks for paying my monthly retirement check and whole family healthcare Bob.
When your only reply involves insults, flag-waving and dick-waving, it might be time to rethink your position.
Yeah, I was with him up to that point.
That's nice. Happy Memorial Day, soldier.
Without people like you fighting for my right to say it to you behind your computer, I might not have the freedom to say your fellow officers were assholes too.
Fuck you.
And God Bless America.
Of course, I could say similar things to anybody on the internet in a hundred other countries in this world, but whatever.
Fuck your twisted vision of America. People like you helped kill the actual nation.
Long live the Empire Squid. And, of course, all our heroes, both fallen and still killin'.
Hey stormsailor, name a single righteous war that the US has been involved in, in the last 100 years...
Yeah. That's right, there are none, so you and your "fellow officers" were nothing more than henchmen for evil empire makers, with tons of false flag BS + etc. to distract the masses. You are a bunch of hired, paid murderers. Baby killers for profit, right?
You sadly didn't uphold any other oath than just to follow criminal orders, you only killed relatively innocent people to steal their oil and fuck with their sovereignty (for empire, 'cos memorial day!).
The military never did anything about the enemies domestic, that's for sure!
Thank you?
(P.S.: dear-me, I hope I don't OFFEND you, jee-wiz, that would be so hurtful, compared to war and killing brown people!)
Courtesy of PCR:
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/05/21/memorial-day-hoax-paul-craig-...
You get a cannon fodder medal.
While it is unfortunate - and I sincerely hope this doesn't 'offend' you sir, but... No one in this nation has died, been maimed or otherwise Skrewed up as a result of U.S. foriegn policy/military actions to 'protect our freedoms and way of life', since the 1940's - and even that time frime is suspect, as to the origins of the conflict and the necessity of our involvement. But let's not allow trivial things like truth get in they way, shall we?
While it is probably the most difficult thing to accept, the fact that thousands upon thousands of American military (and associated civilian support personnel) lives have been lost in vain, nonetheless remains the Truth. You can either choose to accept that fact as a few truly (Brave) souls have done, or wave the flag, jump up & down and call into the Sean Hannity show for security in numbers...
Mexicans don't have a problem. Rent a 2 bedroom. 6-10 head should fit easy and cover the rent.
It's a new day in America. Stay up with the trends.
Some people have more street smarts than others. You call them Mexicans, but I call them Survivors.
Ten to a house? Works great if you're an early adopter. And if you invest the savings wisely. And don't fuck up and lose it all. People will say you're tough and a genius.
But once everyone does it, rent prices re-adjust and you lose your competitive advantage. Then people will have to live one hundred to a house to get any savings...
seek: In my city (in Australia), 25 years ago you could buy a decent 3/1 HOUSE for a mortgage of half the minimum wage.
In the mid-noughties, the CHEAPEST house in the CHEAPEST suburb cost 100% of the minimum wage - and don't forget, I said CHEAPEST here, ie. we're talking a fixer-upper.
Median house prices briefly hit 100% of Average Weekly Earnings. (Actually, it might still be 100%. Perhaps I should look it up again.)
Using the 30% rule, I once calculated that only Doctors and Lawyers could afford to buy the median house (Or was it the cheapest house in the cheapest suburb? I'd have to dig up the numbers again to say.)
Even though our technology can make everything else cheaper, for some reason housing/land NEVER goes down ...
Bedford Falls is morphing into Pottersville.
Miffed
Time for that flaming rum punch.
Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
Just give them free apartments. Jeesh.
you willing to give up more free earnings?
Who works for minimum wage...get on the obama free shit army list.
So what? If all you're worth is minimum wage, and there shouldn't even be that, then you have no business even entertaining the idea of having a family. Go right ahead if you want to, just don't expect (demand) that someone else pick up the tab. That's YOUR job. Hell, I want an oceanfront estate with 7 classic cars in the garage, some servants and a helicopter at my disposal. You mean I have to actually be capable of earning the income to get that??? What a fucking concept!
Read my comment below. I'm single, no kids, work 55-60 hrs a week (paid more than minimum wage. about 14.00 hr.) and I can't afford a 400 sq ft one bedroom studio apartment legally. I would have to make 36,000 for that... For a 400 square foot, one bedroom apartment, 36,000... So basically, unless I live with another person, I'm fucked. Tell me, what do I not deserve again? To support myself? Cause that's what's happening.
What do you not DESERVE? ANYTHING! Be smart! Get a roommate. For more fun, get 2 roommates.
That's what I did. But it seems this younger generation of...uh... 'men' prefers to moan and complain rather than find solutions. Too much estrogen in the food supply I suppose.
I wonder whether television is teaching people to be complainers. Surely, people have always complained, but I think that, in most places, in most of human history, most people realized that, if they wanted their situation to change, they had to DO something DIFFERENT. The first step is admitting I have a problem. :-)
The worst thing that happened to this country was that people left their farms in the turn of the century for the city. That having been said,
Find something you like to do on the side and are good at and turn it into a small business on the side. You have to have mulitiple income streams. It's easier to work 60 hours a week, when you love what you are doing. I have 4 small businesses and left the corperate circus in 2008 at the height of the collapse. never looked back. You must have talents OR good qualities that can help you do better. No one is going to rescue you. You have to do it yourself. You can succeed, just keep looking and searching. You have to live a simple life too, which you probably all ready are.
I have a friend who just moved to San Fransico because of a new job. I said, "Man, an apartment their is like $3,000 a month for a shoe box." He said, "I just bought a used motor yacht and will moar it down on the marina in the bay. The boat payment is $1,050 a month and the doc space is $15 per foot. He needs 50 feet. He thought outside the box. It didn't hurt that he had lived before on a sailboat.
Feel free to message me if you'd like a few pointers or some simple advice. Most the men on zerohedge are emotional cripples, selfish, and constipated. Oh yeah, spiritually bankrupt. They only care about themselves. You won't get much understanding from them; just jeers and insults. If you are hardworking, a man of morals and principles, and a good citizen, then you have my respect. I'd love to see every minimum wage person walk off the job for one week. The brain may think it is the most important part of the body or the heart, but let the anus seer up for one week, and just sit back and watch the fun.
Thinking outside the box would be anchoring in the bay and taking the dingy in. He is paying another $750/mo for dockage.
He needs electricty, sewage dump, etc. He likes his internet and niceties. Shhheeessh
Ummm, based on your stated figures you already make more than 36K.
-1
Chicago just tore down all the Housing Projects in the past decade...Looks like we gotta rebuild em....only to tear em down in 20 years from now....and then rebuild em again probably...
Nice cycle of logic this....
I lived in Chicago as that was just beginning.
Here's the real deal based upon the fact that all actions by government are for the aggrandizement--money, power, and division--of those involved. The pols' and crats' lies are only cover for that fact.
Some pols, crats and connected made massive profits in the 40s thru the 60s building the projects in Chicago. Predictably, much misery followed those that came to reside in the projects.
In the early 90s another group of venal ones noticed that the land under the projects was worth a bundle. So, the pols and crats tore down the projects purportedly to "make life better for the inhabitants." The land was then sold or let to some new connected ones for pennies on the dollar. The connected put up multimillion dollar developments and shopping centers with less capital, and lined their pockets, and those of the venal ones, with gold.
The pols and crats then also controlled, on the behalf of their pockets, the building of "scattered housing" to replace the torn down projects. "Scattered housing" enables the government to both steal the souls of the residents in the buildings, and the peace of the neighborhoods where they are built. Because the venal ones could not afford to build and steal enough "scattered housing," many of the suburbs were inundated with swarms of the "soulless ones" from the projects.
And so it went.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission..
My favorite during this time was the how the government would organize fake protests about the speed and amount of "scattered housing" being built as a diversion away from their real crimes. While it all was alarming to watch, it was also a wonder to behold--"Chicago: The city of big corruption."
Every time the government does some "work of charity", there WILL BE fraud, graft, abuse, and conspiracy.
Ron Paul says "end the warfare state, and end the welfare state". That's the only solution.
I'm up to 5 axioms of government:
#1: "Government is nothing more than a criminal syndicate of violence, theft, destruction, and death. All statements otherwise are lies."
#2: All actions by government are driven by a quest for money, power, and division.
#3: "Being nothing more than a criminal syndicate, government can only produce 4 things: Poverty, misery, death, and lies. All statements otherwise are lies."
#4: "Being nothing but a criminal syndicate, government always accomplishes the opposite of the stated goal, as the stated goal is always cover for theft and a lie."
#5: Being nothing but a criminal syndicate concerned only with stealing and killing under cover of the lie of providing services, government must always monitor and control the thoughts, attitudes, behavior, and speech of their victims, subjects.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission..
Thank you. I wish I could have said that that well.
Your comment was great. Well written and clear.
I just thought that I might add a bit more food for thought.
Cheers.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission.
Self-legitimizing criminal syndicate.
Just like the behaviors of alpha-males in monkey troops are self-legitimized. Might makes right in the animal world and the government world.
A point to make about what you saw in the projects: as a fact, persons on parole became prohibited from living in the projects around 2000, or perhaps before, but in 2002, it became part of their MSR (Mandatory Supervised Release conditions).
I'm just pointing-out another part of the divide-and-conquor front that would help to note: on one hand, it may have made the green and icky a bit safer, but when arrests are wholesale a family became forced to choose between loyality and short-term survival.
Chicago is a perfect case for a people who pay a shitload of taxes, fees, fines and get little in return but more butt-fucked. The corruption in that city and the State of Illinois seems unreal, but it is and it exacts a very real and heavy cost-- people are dying because of it.
Things really haven't changed so much since "The Jungle."
I want to say something... But I can't because it pisses me off soooo fucking much that I work a full time job (50 hrs a week) and a part time job (8-10 hrs a week) and I can't fucking afford rent anywhere. You want to see people my age get out of our parents houses do you? Well when a 1bdr apartment is over $1,000 fucking dollars a month (money I will never see again, being pissed away to pay someone elses Maui mortgage) there is no way that is going to happen. Legally, I have to make three times the cost of rent a month before tax to rent at all. But only one job counts to that total. My 30,000 a year from my full time job isn't enough to legally rent anything. Don't call my generation slackers, we work hard. But can't afford shit because no one is paying. Minimum wage wont solve the problem either. Since when is rent more than a mortgage payment?!
There is no way in hell rental properties are worth that much. Neither are houses. Fuck the banksters and fuck the rich assholes with 30 fucking properties artificially escalating the cost of housing. You are ruining my and all of my friends lives. As soon as the opportunity arises we will come for your fucking heads.
Where do you live that you can't find afford to rent an apartment bringing in $30k per year!?!
And, why do you live there? Honestly, for $30k a year you can live pretty good in most cities in this country.
I can't speak for that person, but in Denver you can not find an apartment / studio to rent if you make $35k a year, as that would be roughly $2k a month take home pay. Rent for a single person on their own will run you about $1100 on the low end here anywhere in the Metro-Denver area, leaving you $900 left, subtract food, utilities, bills, travel (vehicle or bus), and any other bills I forget. Forbidding the fact that any random setback will send you reeling into financial devistation.
Let's continue here, I hear this a lot "well move if you can't afford it"....because moving doesn't cost anything right? It's so cheap to just pick your life and move somewhere new, most people have 1st and last deposit sitting around while paying rent right? It's a sham to think that it would cost you more than $2k to move across the country right? So let's just sell everything we own and forget it, live in a van down by the river.
I make a very good living in this city and I am priced out, the decision to either pay higher rents, get more roommates, or move out of state are facing me. I could not imagine trying to figure those decisions out making that low of an income in this city.
Maybe I don't know which cities you are speaking of that $30k annually would provide you a "pretty good" lifestyle, unless by that you mean having money to eat and maybe the perk of a roof over your head.
EDIT:: I forgot to mention most places won't accept your application to rent with that low of a salary.
Nailed it. Denver is correct.
Craigslist says you're wrong. Low end is in the $600's.
America is full of whining wimps. Disgusting.
Do you live here?
Do you know what classifies as "Metro-Denver"?
Do you know the safety of the areas you are looking in?
Do you know how those places and location would relate to the location of your job here?
No? Shut the fuck up.
Thank you and Pitiful for sharing about your situation. I used to be very poor and I made it through my education and relocated to a place with a low cost of living when I graduated. I am okay now, debt free, own my house and car outright but it took time.
I fear that may not be doable for your crew. I am sorry to know, and I need to know. I am shocked how judgmental some folks on here are, they have never been poor or something. I know poor. You will think I am full of shit, but if you make it out, the experience of being poor is a foundation that will serve you well all your life. You will have compassion for others, you will plan well to avoid it, you will not be an entitled fuck, you will appreciate what you have.
Ms Creant, there is a change in mindset here. I graduated from University and three days later, moved to Miami (about 1000 miles). I stayed with a friend for a month or so until I got a job at a whopping $12k/yr, and found a room to rent with a couple of roommates. I didn't think of myself as poor, I was 'starting off', which implied temporary low income. That was the way it played out. One gets the impression that the 'starting off' assumption implying a temporary condition is no longer valid from reading here. I have no doubt that this is, to some extent, true, and that is regrettable and a consequence of the organized financial repression that is afflicting us all. By any long-term indicator you use, Kondratieff wave, Fourth Turning, Cardinal Climax, are all are focused on the time period of this year and next. This points to societal-changing dynamics as well as un-heard of opportunities, but I have to question if they can be seized by 20-somethings complaining that they can't afford their own 1-bedroom apartment. My expectations then exceeded reality, but I eventually made it happen. Don't deny them the opportunity.
It's pretty obvious that a lot of the ZH 'contributors' have never had to make a life on near-minimum wage income. (Or had sex with a woman who isn't inflatable for that matter.)
Just getting by on next to nothing for a year or three can teach a person a lot if valuable skills that are suddenly useful again when the ship has come in, then sailed again without you.
A lot of the 'experts' here have quite obviously never taken any courses at the school of hard knocks.
Alot of them trade paper and confuse that with being productive.
"the experience of being poor is a foundation that will serve you well all your life"
True
You forgot to add that for those rents one also gets one of the most brutal, tyrannical, and treasonous gun and badge thug citadels in the DC US. They serve and protect the banksters' interests on Zion's Denver farm well.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission..
You do not make a "very good living" or you would be "living very good". If you make 50% more than average in an area that cost double the average to live, you will live below average. Learn to earn more or learn to spend less. Individual choices, individual consequences.
A lot of our individual choices are extremely limited, despite what they show on TV.
You nailed it "pretty good lifestyle"... maybe you are expecting too much. I admit, I do make more, but due to prior obligations, i only bring home roughly the same 2k net per month. After utilities, mortgage, and normal bills associated w/ raising a teenager alone (no support), I leave myself about $600/month for the remainder. This pays for food, gas, sundries, entertainment, cleaning supplies, yard maintenance... I don't understand the complaints, it can be done,
the leftists know the white man is starting to awaken
the fascist boot stomping is getting louder everyday.
cant wait for the revolution
Minimum skills= minimum wage, Cuntley. Stay in your Mommy's basement forever, for all I care.
When you come for my head, expect to be handed your own.
Yes... Minimum skills. With a four year tech school degree, (A++ and Comp. networking certificates included!) And an Aasociates degree for Business Ethics. Quite literally a bottom feeder aren't I. At least I can read before posting. That's one thing I'm better than you at already.
I hear the gooberment needs 'techno experts'.
Stop your whining. If no one wants to hire you for what you think you're worth then start your own business. If you can't do that, then be grateful for what you can get.
Business Ethics? That's your problem right there!
Business ethics????wtf? ?? no wonder you can't make money. If you have a real tech degree, you will get multiple offers in the San Jose right now. My son in law with a brand new degree and 2 years of FT experience while in college is choosing between 3 jobs with starting pay of each in 6 figures.
6 figures (and I take it right at the 6 figure mark) isn't shit. i worked 20+ yrs in Silicon Valley but when you add in the taxes and cost of living, you will realize $100K is nothing. I contracted over the past 5 years and my going rate was $45 to $55 an hour. Whenever I was contacted by a recruiter hawking a contract in California, I would multiply by 1.5 to 2X as my going rate.
They never did want to pay that rate when they can find a H1-B visa holder to work for $20 to $25/hr...
I topped out at a full time position around $150K before the great recession of 2008. Then, like so many other engineers, I was laid off (along with 10K+ others from the company I worked for). Haven't seen an offer anywhere close to that since then.
Standard Disclaimer: I currently have a full time position making 2/3 of what I made in 2008.
Wait until they make you train your Indian replacement.
They can't 'make' you do that. And those who do it deserve exactly what they get.
Sometimes you just have to say 'FUCK YOU' to the man, even if it costs money.
Oh wait, this is a USian audience.
Sorry. Yes, train the Indian replacement as thoroughly and carefully as you possibly can. It's the smart thing to do. And it looks good on the resume when you submit it to McDonalds.
Hey Dok,
Sounds like you don't understand what's happening.
I FUCKING love how fucks like you talk about your fellow countrymen. Look, we need people to do "low-skill" jobs, but they should not be destitute for it. It's 2015.
I especially love fucks like you who also depend on these "idiots" for your gas, food, and to take care of your elderly parents. You're probably the same guy who claims he would've went to the ends of the earth of fight slavery too. Hahahahahahahahahah!
You know what? Eat shit and die.
The Four Rs
Rejection: Stop Paying, Stop Obeying, Stop Playing
Revolution: It is inevitable, so prepare, as they are.
Restoration: Restore the Constitution as the "Law of the Land, and the American people, country, and money under the Constitutional republic.
Retribution: The guilty must answer for their crimes against the American people, the Constitution, our money, and humanity.
The bottom line is this: The symptoms of your predicament highlight how they, the banksters and their violence-puppets, government, are already at war against you. Robbing you of your hard earned product and labors, and controlling what you can do and consume. Leaving you with little but to struggle to live instead of enjoying life and living the way they do off your back.
You did not start it, but soon you will be left with no choice but to stand up and proclaim "No!' and then take the fight to them in nothing more than an effort to survive.
See you on the battlefield or in one of Zion's basements.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission..
Build a guillotine and they will be brought.
As an adult, I have lived in some really "substandard" places, with paper-thin walls, no heater, no insulation, no proper kitchen. And in apartments which had no kitchens, and which shared the bathroom with the apartment next door. (Please knock before entering.) And with 4 people in a 2-bedroom 1-bath apartment. And with up to 6 people in a small 1-bathroom house. And even in an uninsulated attic. And with parents, grandparents, brothers, and many other people whom I can just vaguely remember. I have had people camp in my backyard, camp out in my garage, and camp out in a homemade mobile home in my backyard. Each of these situations had its own bothers and burdens, and its own pleasures. Sharing can be fun, or at least sharing can build camaraderie. Jesus and the Buddha and Gandhi didn't have their own houses. Soldiers in combat zones don't have their own houses.
If you really feel that a fair deal may not be available in your City, then you just might have to leave. It's a big world. You don't owe a City anything. A City is not a person. (A corporation is also not a person. :-)
RIGHT NOW, though, I do want you to do one thing.
I want you to go to the window, and open the window, and lean out the window, and shout, as loud as you can, out the window, "I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANY LONGER!" :-)
It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today! And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU... WILL... ATONE!
Take ship now, there is only ANTARCTICA
How much is your cell phone bill?
When I was only making $30K mine was the same as my cable TV bill.
ZERO $ and ZERO cents.
But I didn't live with my mommy and daddy (only a loser cunt does that past 25) - and instead decided to be a fucking adult and build my own life even if it required I ruff it a little.
If you would rather have a fancy phone and watch cable TV and as a result live with your parents then that is your choice.
I bet you could afford an apartment - but it would require you to drop the iPhone
and 500 cable TV channels.
Be honest - what you really mean is you can't afford to rent a place that is as nice as living with your fucking parents rent free.
Sad to face reality - but how old will you be when you finally cut the apron strings and be a man?
No cable TV, $35 a month cell phone (it ain't even a flip-phone ffs...), I piggyback my internet and I have a $60 a month car insurance payment. And rent, of course which is $600 for my room. I'm not a freeloader.
You should know that I moved out on my own at 17 and lived by meself until I was 28. Inflation at that point had become overbearing. I suppose I could have detailed my situation a little more.
The good thing about the place of life I'm in is that I am 100% debt free. I don't owe anyone, anything. Everything I have, I paid for with my money that I earned.
Should encounter the Hell of London where once youth went for stimulation and employment but now flee.
and your generation (I'm assuming under 30ish) votes overwhelmingly for the party of obamaSnare.
Hahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!
Obama is to the right of not only Richard Nixon but also to the right of every elected leader of any legitimate country today.
99 percent of all new income gains go to the 1% along with them already owning 90% of the US'S wealth under the "socialst" Obama. What a fucking joke.
Seriously, I'm asking you, are you advocating for the OP to vote further to the right than Barack?!?!? Because, yes, a Scott Walker administration would just be a godsend to the poor and middle class of this country.
BERNIE 2016
It's been going on in commerical rent too. Price out even a small storefront. We're talking a minimum of 5-10 times the mortgage on a small house. That's just for rent; utilities and insurance (LOL) cost still more. Then you can't rent for 3 months, nope, everybody wants a 12-month lease. There goes your entire SBA loan and then some, long before you buy or make a single product to sell. No wonder so many storefronts are vacant.
And then some layabout landlord with his hand out sneers about lazy moochers or communists.
Evidently the workers cannot afford the 'Fair Market Rent'........
How much have Zion's banksters, and their violence-puppets, government, stolen from us?
In an unburdened economy, prices would go down, not up, as productivity increased.
This was most evident in the American country from about 1796 to 1913.
The banksters and government are then stealing both the productivity gains, and more, which then shows up as increased prices.
How much have Zion's banksters, and their violence-puppets, government, stolen from us?
Go into a Walmart, Target, etc., and see how many of those goods are made here. The reason that few things are made here is because the banksters' cheap "printed" capital was exported, and exchange rates forcibly restrained.
So, now Americans can't afford to live or a place to live.
However, the noiZ-media would like us to believe that fags marrying, "illegals," intolerance, abortion doctors, and Muslims are to blame.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission..
The grifting banksters and treasonous government are the only "illegals."
This is simply not accurate. You can go to any apartment search tool online and key in cities like Chicago or Charlotte and find 1 bedroom apartments for rent at 30-40% of a 40-hr per week minimum wage job's income.
You should probably consider splitting a 2+ bedroom with other people, if you're earning less, obviously, and probably work more hours or take a second job if all you can earn is minimum wage, but the premise of this article is not accurate to start with. When did ZeroHedge lower its integrity standards to equal the MSM?
zh has always peddled doom-porn to some extent, from michael snyder and their ilk...
the article is an exaggeration, but it is accurate to say that wages have not kept pace with inflation.
It's incredible though, how the value of labor when one is selling it is falling yet "somehow" the value of that labor when it is resold is rising. Why are trickle-downers so reluctant to say out loud that simply being "the boss" justifies any and all entitlements? Are they ashamed of it or in fear of their serfs refusing to provide it to them?
I could rent an apartment in Cleveland for $350 a month from an Albanian mobster.
So where are the minimum wage workers living that don't get government subsidized housing? In California the rent subsidy is up to almost $2000.
The subsidy is not to poor renters but corporate landlords too greedy to adjust their take _downward_ to market-supported levels.
You will find that every single subsidy from a government program that appears to be directed at the poor merely passes through them on its way to some entitled asshole "businessman" who is in reality hopelessly dependent on government to protect them from the very free market that they so often run their mouth off about.
We just need to print some Project Housing into existence.
3rd world America.
Just look at how all those countries who had a reserve currency ended out!!!
ALL WENT FLATBROKE AND GOT INTO SERIOUS PROBLEMS AND REVOLUTIONS!!
Oh, and the world kept turning andndidn’t give a fuck about them.
Nobody really cares about those guys at parties who keep saying "do you remember those days that..."
America is way past it greatness, anything great is now a history lesson and history is for old people.
And that bullshit that the rest of the world will suffer to? Maybe for the first 2 years but when you’re not a reserve currency holder your problems are way smaller.
And all those countries that America used to make fun of? They might be friendly now but once you’re down on your luck, even the cripple come out to kick you in the nuts.
So I still haven't heard an answer from those who propose a minimum wage of $15 to this question.
For those who have skills and make $20 an hour? (ie a paramedic). How much are you going to pay them? Are you going to raise their wages to $25 or $30 an hour? And then when someone with a Masters is making the equivilent of $35 or $40 an hour, are you going to pay them more? Or are you willing to say that a paramedic with an education and responsibilities and skills is worth the same as an uneducated burger flipper?
The solution isn't raising wages, it getting rid of all the excess slush money out there and greed capitalism....
All that is going to happen when you raise those minimum wage rates is that prices will go up accordingly...
you're not going to get a rational response for those who support mandatory minimum wages, as they are not rational people.
the extent of their reasoning is: i'm a good person and so therefore i deserve money!
the concepts of supply and demand, and providing goods and services which other people find useful, does not enter into their thinking.
I'll take a crack at it.
We are allegedly the "richest country" in the world, we can afford either a basic income for all or a $15 an hour minimum wage. Australia pays like $18 an hour for a minimum wage, and guess what? They haven't had a recession since the end of the Cold War. Yes, prices are higher down under, but if you actually think the average american lives better than the average Aussie, than are doubt your overall judgement skills. Not to mention, if you raised the minimum wage to $15 an hour, the state would have to fork out much less for of stamps, Medicaid, etc.
I firmly believe we can raise the minimum wage to the point at which people are still unlikely to save any money, the economy will actually improve because the velocity of money in the hands of a poor person is far higher than in Hillary or Mitt's hands. I think that number is around $15 an hour. And seeing how half of Americans earn less than $15 and are broke as shit, establishing a floor of $15 an hour would actually boost the economy,not be a hindrance, as like I said, all the money is going right back into the economy.
And, for all the people who might lose their jobs on a localized level, that is what government safety net should be for. It should not be fore the wal marts of the world to rely on you and I to pay for their workers food and healthcare.
Good day.
no one has the right to dictate to others what prices they may charge, or may pay, for goods or sevices. period.
if i can produce $12/hr of value to an employer through my labor, and the employer is willing to pay that, do you really think some government bureaucrat has the right to step in and say, no, no, this employment arrangement is illegal, anything under $15/hr is not allowed?
do you really think that people who can produce something, ought to be banned from working, if the value of their productivity doesn't meet some arbitrary, made-up minimum requirement? because that's what you are saying with a minimum wage limit: if someone can't produce $15/hr of value, they shouldn't be allowed to work.
such a misguided scheme means that the weakest and most vulnerable people in society are banned from the workplace: high school kids, part time moms, the elderly, the handicapped, immigrants, people with limited skills, etc.
central planning always fails.
The Law of Supply and Demand trumps all other laws. It wins every time.
Not since the bankers took over the commodity markets.
Derivatives are like dams. Dams hold up water, but only for a little while. Water WILL go downstream.
Regarding the commodity of LABOR, whose price is called "wages", bankers can only artificially manipulate the price of a tiny percentage of the price - THEIR OWN WAGES (and those of their children).
There are only two ways for bankers to lower other people's wage rates:
(1) militarily enslave the population (aka, East Timor); and
(2) pay preachers to tell people to have lots of children, which creates a glut of supply of labor.
(2) seems to be easier.
In the Middle Ages, after the Plague swept through Europe, wages of skilled laborers skyrocketed, for the simple reason that there weren't enough of them left alive. Their supply fell far below the demand, and therefore the price (their wages) went up.
"There are only two ways for bankers to lower other people's wage rates:"
You're wrong, because there are many ways to lower people's wages, all based on bad policy that gets paid for by whoever has a fat wallet and the will do to so; and who has a fatter wallet than a banker? For example, one can enact so-called "free trade" laws that outsource and offshore lots and lots of manufacturing jobs, thereby lowering the wages for all of the remaining jobs, thanks to the magic of supply and demand: Increase the supply of workers while simultaneously lowering demand for their labor. There are other ways also, through onerous laws and regulations that make it increasingly difficult to work for oneself, through adding tax burdens and compliance burdens upon those who wish to work for themselves, etc. The oligarchs have many dirty tricks that they can and do play on the rest of us, every single day.
And EVERY SINGLE TIME you guys forget that when the minimum wage goes up for your workers, IT ALSO GOES UP FOR YOUR CUSTOMERS FUCKDAMMIT!!!!!! Learn that word: M-I-N-I-M-U-M! How do you lose money when your customers are richer? Yes, you will get inflation. Yes, you will have to increase your prices. But unless your employees earn more than your TOTAL expenses, the percent by which you have to increase your prices is less than the percent increase in wages so your workers AND YOUR CUSTOMERS net out better off. The worst that happens is that all the other workers - the ones with LEVERAGE - demand similar increase and no-one is better off ... except that they are due to DEBT DILUTION.
Yes, yes, that means that the jobs go overseas to COUNTRIES THAT HAVE A LOWER / NO MINIMUM wage but, guess what? I don't see anyone in a hurry to SELL INTO those countries! Why not? Oh, the people are too poor and can't afford to buy anything. You hate minimum wages and you're willing to move your workforce to lower wage countries but you're not willing to sell into those same countries? Sounds like SLAVERY to me. Oh silly me, those people chose to take those jobs so its all Capitalism and it's all right and nothing is wrong...
Guess what! The minimum wage can set inflation but it can not put people out of business (apart from the hire-people-from-cheaper-countries loop-hole). Everyone else can supposedly demand proportionate wage increases because if I produce twice as much as a minimum wage worker, I'm worth twice as much - right??? so at worst, everyone ends up at the same level but with more zeroes written on their dollar bills. The worst case scenario of high minimum wages are: Nothing changes except debt is diluted.
But all that crap is irrelevant AS LONG AS THE BANKSTERS CAN STILL LEND MONEY TO THOSE WHO CANNOT AFFORD THE REPAYMENTS.
This is where your Supply and Demand crap kicks your and everyone else's Ass big time. Every idiot who bought a house thought he was involved in a free-market transaction. Turns out that they were outbid by and idiot with his free money from his bankster. Be a good, little brain-washed Capitalist. Work as hard as you like. Innovate as much as you like. You'll have to work hard because several banksters are lending money to idiots and the idiots can bid prices higher than you can afford. The idiots can keep their businesses under water for longer than you, and when you go broke they'll come in and buy up your stuff for pennies in the dollar. YOU THINK YOU CAN WIN BY WORKING HARD BUT ALL IT TAKES TO BEAT YOU IS AN IDIOT AND HIS BANKSTER AND THE FREE MONEY POURING OUT THE BACK DOOR AT THE FED.
Versus "I wear a suit and play golf so therefore I deserve money?"
Jesus Christ...if every special snowflake executive is solely responsible for corporate success, then every special snowflake executive is solely responsible for corporate failure too.
"All that is going to happen when you raise those minimum wage rates is that prices will go up accordingly..."
Exactly, but not the whole answer.
By pushing up the labor costs of employers, the employers then have an incentive to increase investment in and use of labor(wage)-saving devices/machines.
A machine today that does not offer the prerequisite ROI, will later, at various "minimum wages," be well within the required ROI range.
Ultimately the economy ends up with higher priced goods, but fewer people working. Sound familiar?!
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission..
Ultimately the minimum wage is a combined tax and welfare without the normal pol and crat welfare middlemen. The effects are the same though--poverty, misery , death, and lies.
Again: The minimum wage is both a tax AND welfare.
THE MACHINES ARE SUPPOSED TO TAKE ALL THE FUCKING JOBS!!!!!!!! THAT'S WHY WE INVENT THEM!!!!
You want to work 80 hours per week when a machine could do the same job in an hour??? Fucking go ahead, knock yourself out! Some of us have more interesting things to do with our time. Don't bitch to me when the wife divorces you and you have to work 130 hours per week so you can pay the lawyer to get access to see your own kids ... who don't recognize you.
Is Capitalism supposed to ensure a better life for all or guaranteed slavery for all?????? Ooooooooo, deary me, I must work hard so the robot doesn't take my job! Here, let me put this piece of iron ore in my pocket and swim to China. I don't want the dump trucks and ships taking my job!!!
NO!!! Let the machines do the work. One machine puts 80 people out of work? FUCKING GREAT!!!!! Now the remaining guy with a job gets to work one hour per fortnight and then all 80 people are employed again.
NO???????? Okay, so one guy works 40 hours per week and everyone else goes on the dole. The guy with the job gets paid a little extra to compensate for the fact that he's the poor sucker left working. NO???????
This is the point where I hate Capitalism and Capitalists are a bunch of idiots that can all fuck themselves. (Apart from that and a few other niggles, Capitalism is a good idea): PRODUCTION IS WHAT MATTERS!!!!! NOT JOBS!!! The Capitalist will destroy excess production in order to preserve future profits. The Capitalist won't give to those who have no money - fair enough, except in the example above where you clearly don't need 80 people working, the Capitalist solution is to fire 80 workers, who now cannot buy anything because they have no money, and then they sack the 81st worker too because there is no longer any DEMAND. And note at this point that they are using the Economist's version of the word DEMAND ( what people actually buy ) and TOTALLY IGNORE THE FACT THAT PEOPLE DO NOT STOP WANTING THINGS JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE UNEMPLOYED.
"Ooooo, I'm scared! Please give me my job back so that I can buy things. I promise to be cheaper than the machine!."
"All right, but only because all the other businessmen in town were complaining that they had no customers since I fired yas all. But I'm warning ya! One slip up and I'll pay the machine a wage and then the machine can buy shit and then you'll be REALLLY unemployed again!"
PRODUCTION IS WHAT MATTERS.
DISTRIBUTION IS WHAT MATTERS.
Jobs are just a necessary evil. (Yeah, yeah, I know - plenty of dickheads out there get bored and can't handle free time. That's a SEPARATE PROBLEM.)
We got machines that allow one man to do the job of ten - so why are we still working so hard??? What happened to the four hour working week?
What! paramedics only get $20 an hour, your living in the wrong country, get out quick.
......and what!, someone with a masters only getting $40 an hour, your just pulling my leg.
It's Marxist Tyler!
This article is total bullsh!t.
Who ever said you should be able to live on minimum wage? The purpose of a minimum wage is to prevent gross exploitation of workers. It's isn't intended to be a living wage.
Here's a chart with minimum wages going back to 1955 ($.75/hour):
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774473.html
40 hours @ $.75 = $30.00
Average monthly rent in 1955 was $87.00
http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/1955.html
Crap...minimum wage didn't even work BEFORE Lehman, way before.
where's the chart comparing purchasing power of minimum wage from 1955 to 2015? Or should we dismiss reality?
While you're waiting, try this reference from 1970 to 2007 (or something like that):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A
Takes about an hour, first six minutes is boring introductions, but plenty of inflation-adjusted charts for you to look at.
how is this a suprise. i never made minimum wage after military-college,navy. and owned my own older car, i still chose to find a semi=acceptable roommate and lived in a 100 year old mansion turned into 4 apartments, steam heat no ac for a couple of years to save up a nut for a 20 percent dp on a home with a marriage and 2 sons thrown in for grins and giggles.
every idiot in this country thinks they are entitled to the media and movie image of the huge mansion or royal apartment as seen on tv. they want the most expensive car, phone, clothes, quarters, etc. etc. to infinity and it sickens me to see it all day every day.
the poor bastards think they can fill their empty souls with stuff and be fullfilled but its just not that easy character takes hard work and sacrifice and fullfillment comes from self-respect, something you can't buy, beg, borrow, or steal.
rant off
Tyler lived in a shit hole with Jack's huge errection.
True. And very bad plumbing. And electrics. And the NEIGHBORHOOD: don't get me STARTED! :-)
What I want to know is who raised these losers? They're everywhere. ugh
'What I want to know is who raised these losers?'
The Internet raised them had to their parents were both holding down 60 hour a week jobs to pay the huge mortgage compliments of the Feds housing bubble.
Noone not even the 1% are entitled to entitlement.
Here's the thing, if you control the rules of the game and all posters on here do not then you can't lose and you manipulate and change the rules to favour yourself. THAT PART IS MASTER / SLAVE politics.
Now for a long time I used to think Democracy was the only way but it becomes an utter sham if it is minority run and it is backed up by fiat money not even real value.
THEIR WORLD, THEIR RULES .... WHEN YOU WANT TO CARRY OUT A BIT OF PAYBACK REMEMBER THEIR RESPONSIBILITY AND ENTITLEMENT TOO.
well, in a free market, rents would seek fair market price... too bad we don't have free markets.
Hey i would be very happy if holding a minimum wage job was the basic requirement for Public assistance
I worked one week at minimum wage when I was 13....boss was shocked I worked harder than the adults and gave me a raise. I have never worked for minimum wage again.
When I quit my minimum wage job, the boss said, "Oh no you don't", and I looked at him in awe, gobsmacked by his arrogance to think that HE thought he had a choice. He had over five years to "pay me what I was worth" but instead he chose to continually tell me that I made more money that he did.
My next boss paid me more than the minimum wage for that industry. Since then it has always depended on the job.
Only stupid people are paid minimum wage...
So what you are NECESSARILY saying is that because one is born ignorant that that person should live a terrible life on an unliveable wage.
Intelligence is the last form of discrimination.
Go fuck yourself.
'Go fuck yourself'
How bright do you have to be to do that?