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Constitution 1 - 0 Government: NSA Starts Winding Down Bulk Data Collection

Tyler Durden's picture




 

As we detailed earlier, in a chaotic scene during the wee hours of Saturday, Senate Republicans blocked a bill known as the USA Freedom Act - backed by President Barack Obama, House Republicans and the nation's top law enforcement and intelligence officials - which would have preserved the government's ability to search phone company records for suspected spies and terrorists. As AP reports, the failure to act means the NSA will immediately begin curtailing its previously-secret bulk data collection progreams with The DoJ noting that while it will take time to taper off the collection process, that process began Friday (according to an administration official). Sen. Rand Paul called the Senate's failure to allow an extension of the surveillance programs a victory for privacy rights, adding "we should never give up our rights for a false sense of security."

We explained Rand Paul's refusal to play by the Washington script earlier and how the Senate failure to extend the Patriot Act leaves the future of America's "war against terrorists" - but really against "enemies domestic", i.e., anyone who uses email, has a cell phone or in any other electronic way communicates with others - in limbo.

Now, it appears, as AP reports, the de-esclation of The NSA is escalating rather faster than many had dared to hope for...

The National Security Agency has begun winding down its collection and storage of American phone records after the Senate failed to agree on a path forward to change or extend the once-secret program ahead of its expiration at the end of the month.

 

Barring an 11th hour compromise when the Senate returns to session May 31, a much-debated provision of the Patriot Act - and some other lesser known surveillance tools - will sunset at midnight that day. The change also would have a major impact on the FBI, which uses the Patriot Act and the other provisions to gather records in investigations of suspected spies and terrorists.

 

In a chaotic scene during the wee hours of Saturday, Senate Republicans blocked a bill known as the USA Freedom Act, which would have ended the NSA's bulk collection but preserved its ability to search the records held by the phone companies on a case-by-case basis. The bill was backed by President Barack Obama, House Republicans and the nation's top law enforcement and intelligence officials.

 

...

 

The failure to act means the NSA will immediately begin curtailing its searches of domestic phone records for connections to international terrorists. The Justice Department said in a statement that it will take time to taper off the collection process from the phone companies. That process began Friday, said an administration official who would not be identified because he was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.

As a reminder, Section 215 of the Patriot Act is used by the government to justify collecting the "to and from" information about nearly every American landline telephone call.

When former NSA contractor Edward Snowden revealed the program in 2013, many Americans were outraged that NSA had their calling records. Obama ultimately announced a plan similar to the USA Freedom Act and asked Congress to pass it. He said the plan would preserve the NSA's ability to hunt for domestic connections to international plots without having an intelligence agency hold millions of Americans' private records.

 

Since it gave the government extraordinary powers, Section 215 of the Patriot Act was designed to expire at midnight on May 31 unless Congress renews it. An appeals court has ruled that the phone collection does not comply with the law, but stayed the ruling while Congress debated.

And so it's end is not just legally 'correct' but ethically so too...

Sen. Rand Paul, Kentucky's other senator and a Republican presidential candidate, called the Senate's failure to allow an extension of the surveillance programs a victory for privacy rights.

 

"We should never give up our rights for a false sense of security," Paul said in a statement.

 

Some civil liberties groups joined Paul in praising the result, saying they would rather see the Patriot Act provision authorizing NSA phone collection expire altogether.

 

"For the first time, a majority of senators took a stand against simply rubber-stamping provisions of the Patriot Act that have been used to spy on Americans," said Michael Macleod-Ball, acting director of the ACLU Washington Legislative Office.

...and here are 10 reasons, thanks to Rand Paul, why this should never have happened in the first place...

10 Great Points From Rand Paul's Personal Patriot Act Attack

(via Matt Welch of Reason.com)

1) Warrants need to be "individualized," because collective law enforcement is the root of much evil.

Paul's root opposition to the Patriot Act is that it is being used as the legal justification for the collection of bulk data against unsuspecting U.S. citizens who no one believes have committed a crime. His opposition to the reforming USA Freedom Act is that it still allows the government to compel third-party companies like Verizon to cough up 100 percent of its customer metadata.

Either way, Paul has stressed all day, this is antithetical to both the Fourth Amendment and the American tradition of individual rights. Collective guilt is what underpinned the segregationist horrors of the Jim Crow south, and of the indefensible internment of Japanese-Americans during World War II. The people who really need the Bill of Rights, he has said, are not the prom queens and homecoming kings, but people who are in a disfavored minority, whether ideological, religious, or racial.

2) Internet/telephone/data companies should put up "unified resistance" to federal compulsion to turn over user data.

It’s not every day that you see a sitting U.S. senator calling for straight-up civil disobedience. But in an era where the Supreme Court has yet to definitively rule on the third-party doctrine governing what intermediaries have to do when requested by the government to cough up all user data, building up a bigger cultural expectation of privacy is crucial if our credit-card data and cloud storage is going to be proferred traditional 4th Amendment protection.

3) "We're using the Patriot Act to put [drug offenders] in prison."

One of the least remembered scandals in the Summer of Snowden is that the Drug Enforcement Agency has been collecting bulk metadata with all the same gusto as the National Security Agency, even though the DEA is supposed to enforce the law on U.S. citizens who are afforded protections from the Constitution. In fact, the DEA has been using the NSA's data. Patriot Act mission creep might not be news to Reason readers, but that makes it no less indefensible.

4) "Government by cliff is a recipe for disaster."

That's a quote from Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah), not Rand Paul, though the two have long agreed about this principle. The Patriot Act expires at the end of May. "It's been three years since we've known this date is coming," Paul said. Why in hell hasn’t there been a debate, with amendments, in the Senate? Why does Capitol Hill lurch from cliff to cliff, instead of actually do the job of governing? I suppose this bad habit of mind is good for certain opportunistic politicians with a sense of theater, but it's just lousy for the country. The Republicans run the joint; the dysfunction is now squarely on them.

5) "It was done by executive decree, it can be undone by executive decree."

Paul has continuously bemoaned President Barack Obama's civil-liberties switcheroo when in office, a topic he talked with me about in a September 2013 (bottom of the post). As he rightly points out, most of the actions civil libertarians are complaining about are pure inventions and executions by the executive branch. If the president cares about this stuff as much as he occasionally pretends to be, he can actually stop collecting the metadata. 

6) The government is "using records to gain entrance to people, and then tak[ing] their stuff without conviction."

The connection between civil asset forfeiture and NSA surveillance might not be immediately obvious, but Paul has done a bravura job in making the link. A government that can take your money—even if you are never charged with a crime—because it doesn't like the way you deposit it in your bank, is a government that should not be trusted with holding all your seemingly innocuous third-party information.

7) "The Constitution is an end to itself."

That's another one from Mike Lee (who, it should be stressed, is wholly in favor of the USA Freedom Act, which Paul opposes on grounds that it still allows for bulk collection of metadata). Too often people try to locate their defense of the founding document on utilitarian grounds; actually, it's a noble blueprint all on its own.

8) We shoulda listened to William Binney.

William Binney was a crucial, pre-Snowden NSA whistleblower. Don't know who he is, what he saw, how he was threatened, and why he's worried about America’s "totalitarian" turn? Read this Nick Gillespie interview with the guy.

9) "The director of national intelligence…wasn't telling the truth."

Director of National Intelligence James Clapper famously lied to Congress under oath about the collection of bulk metadata on millions of Americans. All afternoon, Rand Paul has used the word "lied" to describe what Clapper did. It is bracing to watch government misbehavior called by its proper name.

10) "The presumption of innocence is an incredibly important doctrine that we shouldn't so casually dismiss."

The fact that this has to be said on the floor of the U.S. Senate is appalling. The fact that it is being said at least offers a little hope.

*  *  *

It appears he - and the many others fighting for liberty and privacy and the constitution - may have actually won one here... or is bulk data collection about to go deep, very deep under cover.

 

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Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:20 | 6124991 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

too funny ......hehehee.......no way Jose..how bout I sell ya this bridge I gotz in Brooklyn

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:28 | 6125014 Looney
Looney's picture

If the Nobel Prize weren’t as stained as it has been, I’d say Rand Paul deserves one (in all categories, but Krugmanomics).  ;-)

Looney

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:46 | 6125062 junction
junction's picture

Senator Mitch McConnell will not let the NSA bulk collection authority expire.  If it does, his druglord masters will give McConnell such a beating that the one Senator Reid got (from his disapppointed Triad real estate speculators) look like a walk in the park.  McConnell's cocaine smuggling father-in-law is already in trouble after part of one dope shipment was seized on one his cargo vessels traveling from Columbia to Europe.  How will these narco cartel lice know about their drug dealing competitors without access to NSA wiretaps?  Connected dope dealers rule the USA, led by our Cokehead in Chief, Obama (who also doubles as the Lord High Executioner when he sends out hit squads of FBI agents to rub out potential enemies, making the murder look like suicide). 

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:54 | 6125087 Publicus
Publicus's picture

And yet no one from the NSA is going to jail.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:59 | 6125097 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

By "winding down" they of course mean "continuing to do it secretly".    

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:08 | 6125120 Spaceman Spiff
Spaceman Spiff's picture

The Bulk information gathering program is dead.  Long live operation crapload of information gathering...

 

Not really, f all of them with a red hot poker.     And I think Big government has a much higher score than '0' against the constitution; not that I want them to...

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 17:00 | 6125223 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Nobody is going to jail because the nigger kenyan directs the attorney general.  What if a Rand Paul became president and appointed an AG with integrity?  There certainly could be bankers and NSA execs facing jail.

I think we are a long way from seeing this happen, but one small step at a time.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 17:46 | 6125312 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

Stop bulk data collection? That's crazy! 

Bulk data collection and all the other intelligence-value-added snooping by the NSA and DHS/Stazi have stopped COUNTLESS terrorist attacks saving millions of American lives.

For instance, there was that one... well, er... I guess that was an FBI dude. OK, but there was that other one with the terrorist who... well, I guess he wasn't real either. I distinctly do remember one time when there were rumors of a potential threat that might have been a possibility, except that it wasn't. But it could have been! I can't even remember all the other ones I saw on CNN - too many for Wolf Blitzer to count. It's hard to believe I'm still alive with the persistent threat of terrorism around every corner. 

Well.... now I'm just splitting hairs. Intrusive, unconstitutional bulk-data collection saves lives, period. The government said so and anybody that disagrees is a f'king terrorist. There!

Submit to a body cavity search? YES, because I'm a patriot! Probe away in the name of freedom and liberty, officer! God bless America.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 18:11 | 6125363 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

And we should believe this lying fuckers because?

Let us know when the facility in Utah is razed to the ground, it may be more believable then.

Now, of course, they can apply the "You're a conspiracy theorist for believing it's stilling happening" BS. Didn't see that coming or anything...

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 18:41 | 6125432 espirit
espirit's picture

Power & Control are a moneymaker, so this is a crock of shit.

#SHEEPLESDONTCARE

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 19:45 | 6125575 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

No, we're not collecting any m,ore info on you guys......really!

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 20:06 | 6125617 philipat
philipat's picture

The NSA answers to nobody. Do you really think they will stop? What will they do with all that storage capacity in Utah?

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 22:15 | 6125890 MonetaryApostate
MonetaryApostate's picture

What if mass data collections was done to classify everyone based upon opinions / religions / psychological disorders / stability / credit / etc???

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 22:17 | 6125912 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

The Shadow Government is pissed and they will soon be out for blood, OUR blood!

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 20:07 | 6125618 philipat
philipat's picture

Apologies, fat (Middle) finger dupe....

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 20:06 | 6125619 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Indefensible internment of japanese-americans?  Offhand, I'd suggest it might be time for the indefensible internment, and more, of another group of dual citizens in this country.  As I find out more about what these cunts are up to, I am starting to think there might still be hope for the USSA.  All it requires is understanding who the true enemy within is, and taking appropriate action, preferably utilizing an array of guillotines.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 19:21 | 6125530 Bro of the Sorr...
Bro of the Sorrowful Figure's picture

can anyone help lend any credence to some of the comments ive seen around here recently saying that basically everything Zhers have been hoping for, russia/china monetary alliance or gold backed brics currency leading to dollar/us fed gov collapse + gold/silver revaluation, rand/ron paul libertarian movement, ending of the fed etc, is all part of the hegelian dialectic and all those groups are controlled opposition

 

been reading some websites linked from comment section that support such claims. major bummer if true, bro.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 20:08 | 6125614 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

I can 100% confirm: YES, sad, but it's absolutely true.

All of the long-timers here flipped and are on the government payroll as controlled opposition. John Brennan, head of the CIA, is the top Tyler (but he'll deny it). I'm not sure exactly what role the 'Knuckles' character plays, but he/she is dangerous. I'm thinking State Department insider. Hedgeless Horseman: Administration higher-up, VPOTUS?. Banzai: obviously a Fed plant. Pods/nmewn: look at their Hasiddic Jewish avatars and fill in the blanks. You get the idea. I'm missing tons of other old-timers, but I'm still a newbie - others here need to help me out a bit.

The rest of the frequent posters here are mostly homeless meth-heads looking to scratch up a few bucks for their next hit. The government preys on them to post their angry, fake opposition rants. I believe the going rate is $2.50 per upvote OR downvote, but I don't have personal knowledge of that. I'm on kind of a work-release program except I can't leave and worked out a deal for extra smokes (I'm a damn fiend) whenever I post and get an extra hour in the yard on Tuesdays (It's horseshoes day).

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 20:09 | 6125627 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Brennan is Tyler?  Christ, I was starting to think it was Hillary herself. 

I suspect Freddie is Donald Trump.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 20:23 | 6125666 Bro of the Sorr...
Bro of the Sorrowful Figure's picture

jeez what a fucking straw man. i didnt say anything about ZH.

im assuming you havent seen corbett's hour long segment on the connection between the western financial elite and the creation of communist china and the close ties that continue to this day.

there's also plenty showing that libertarianism and austrian economics were originally funded by the western financial elite.

but thanks for the highly sarcastic comment that contributed nothing to the discussion i was hoping to bring about!

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 20:56 | 6125718 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

My apologies, Bro of the Sorr. Corbett has done several pieces on the subject. 

This is what a quick search brings up:

China and the New World Order (transcript)

Is this the one you're speaking about?

I still don't trust Knuckles...

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 21:58 | 6125861 Bro of the Sorr...
Bro of the Sorrowful Figure's picture

yes and stuff like this that has been posted in the comment section: http://redefininggod.com/category/ron-paul/

although a good deal seems farfetched, what honestly gets me is im having the same reaction to this new info (including corbett's stuff) as i did when i intially woke up. if we have accepted that all political actors in the US are just that, then why is it such a strech of the imagination to believe that the pauls, the alt media, and leaders who are ostensibly not a part of the western banking cabals plans, namely putin and xi, are not simply actors playing their given roles as well.

i dont have the free time to investigate stuff like this myself and i have always turned to ZH, among other sources, for enlightenment. these things have certainly thrown a stick in my spokes. information overload.

 

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 01:05 | 6126192 mortem-tyrannus
mortem-tyrannus's picture

Brother of Sorrow,

I would only say, please watch out for people who make money by trying to spin you up. It is an old style of arguing that goes back to ancient Greece and the Sophists.

Long story short, all things being equal, I think it is more likely that naked incompetence, criminal cupidity,  sloth, vanity and plain old fashioned grift will account for most of what you are reading about far easier than elaborate theories of a master cabal of genius kikes intent on ruling the entire world through their use of willing and unwilling dupes.

That malevolent, pyschotic, ass grabbing, big nosed piece of shit Bill Clinton and his buck toothed, money grubbing, ghetto grifting wife certainly fit the former narrative far better than the idea they are brilliant tools of evil geniuses.

For every ass backwards dog fucking mental retard like President Peace Prize and his ferociously hideous wookie wife, there is somewhere in this great land, a good man with a large stash of weapons, giving back to his community and dedicated to upholding the tenets of the Constitution.

So by all means, read the conspiracy theories and have a good time. Post comments and mock those in power. These are all creative and useful pursuits if not always perfectly rational or even healthy. Hell, maybe you could even call your congress critter and tell him what you want him doing on your behalf instead of kissing Hitlery's ass. It certainly wouldn't kill you no matter what the nutters here say.

But realize all of this is really just good fun in the end. When push comes to shove, the liberal progressive peace loving beatnik eco freak lesbo trans gender butt pirates are going to get their severely stretched out assess literally handed to them on a plate, since the guillotine can't get to their head without going where they keep it. I hope they find that statement as sobering as I do.

 

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 11:45 | 6126838 Bro of the Sorr...
Bro of the Sorrowful Figure's picture

i agree wholeheartedly that most of the people whom we see are malevolent, psychotic, ass grabbing pieces of shit, as you so perfectly put it. they are sociopathic and tend towards self destruction.

these people arent the ones pulling the strings however. i think those sick fucks are useful idiots. im refering to the same people JFK in his famous secret societies speech. they, it seems to me, have managed to stay in hiding since at least 1913 and have been behind--through financial support--every major political, cultural and philispohical since then, including, among others, all big wars.

i dont care about that kabuki theater charade that encompasses the clintons, bushes, and other world politicians. im more concerned that, like WWI, WWII, and any other number of conflicts, these cocksuckers continue to fund and ultimately control both sides, with respect to the topic i am trying to discuss means that china and russia are part of a larger plan.

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 12:10 | 6126908 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSuB4t3q_dA

 

 Hold your head up high friend.

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 00:08 | 6126118 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

You know, now that you mention it, Knuckles does have shifty eyes.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 22:45 | 6125967 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

So um where do I fit in?

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 23:30 | 6126062 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

Either a Soros operative or an agent provocateur. As for myself, Harlan Ellison flips me a twenty once in awhile for my efforts to keep the name of one of his novels in circulation.

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 10:09 | 6126608 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

Lets do lunch.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:25 | 6125148 Fun Facts
Fun Facts's picture

The communist pedophile perverts running the NSA do whatever they want with impunity, including lying about what they're doing under oath.

If there were anything left of the so called "justice system", all the NSA stasi bastards would have long ago been tried for treason, sedition and crimes against humanity.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:37 | 6125167 r101958
r101958's picture

It is interesting how it is reported as a 'failure' to act or Rand Paul 'failed' to do something. How about they 'succeeded' in preventing an extension to the act.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:47 | 6125196 Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture

 

 

Governments do not give up power and control like this except by force.

The "wind down" will likely be nothing other then a rearrangement of responsibilities amongst the FIVE EYES.

Switches will be thrown in different carrier equipment closets, DNS servers redirected, routers reassigned, etc..

"Collection" will be handled by a different partner, analysis and storage shared, etc...

They have known this was a possibility and likely already have the alternate operation in up, running and tested just waiting for the day.

 

 

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 20:12 | 6125636 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Very true.  That's the point of a "sunset" clause.  One of the better ideas in running a democracy.  Or a constitutional republic subverted by democracy.

ALL laws should have a sunset clause.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:55 | 6125208 mkkby
mkkby's picture

One small step at a time. 

We can expect the MIC to fight back.  Will there be a false flag to convince the sheeple surveillance is necessary?  Or will senator paul's funding dry up?  He is obviously not alone if he got the senate's votes.  It may not be completely hopeless after all.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 19:47 | 6125579 g speed
g speed's picture

You're right--he can't be alone cause I sent him some money last week----money well spent IMHO

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:32 | 6125157 booboo
booboo's picture

Que up a false flag in 3..2..1
" this could have stopped if it were not for ...blah blah blah"

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 19:05 | 6125486 espirit
espirit's picture

My thoughts also.

Divine Wind is also correct.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:37 | 6125035 TheGreatRecovery
TheGreatRecovery's picture

One way to troll is to ridicule any small victories by citizens.   :^)

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 07:25 | 6126415 doctor10
doctor10's picture

And so we KNOW this will happen because.....they will say it has?!!!

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:21 | 6124995 Trucker Glock
Trucker Glock's picture

Hahaha.  NSA ain't winding down shit.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:37 | 6125037 TheGreatRecovery
TheGreatRecovery's picture

One way to troll is to ridicule any small victories by citizens.   :^)

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:52 | 6125078 ersatz007
ersatz007's picture

Perhaps you're the troll. Just because many are cynical that our gov't will actually work in the public's best interest, and many are skeptical about the idea that the NSA will, in fact, curtail its collection activities does not mean they are trolls or trolling.

So instead of pasting your douchetard, snarky response why don't you tell us how you and/or we, the average citizen, can reliably ensure, for ourselves whether the NSA has curtailed its activities.

As much as I'd like to believe this is a victory, forgive me if I don't have a lot of faith in our govt right now.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 19:58 | 6125597 Karaio
Karaio's picture

Trolls are a constant in ZH.

I have suffered "bullying" Troll here.

The first thing they do is expose you counting how many months and days is a registered user.

Then comes the attack, usually three or four.

They put a lot of "-" challenge your comment, make the devil.

For my part, I have "cow syndrome"

I'm shitting and walking toward these guys.

kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

The guys can try to find me in Brazil but will have to talk to my superior before me take me home.

Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

You can not imagine how much I feel good about it.

hehe.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:05 | 6125113 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

No, we're just skeptical that this is something that could be counted as an actual victory.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:18 | 6125140 Karaio
Karaio's picture

If you think they will stop, you are very innocent.

Too stupid!

hehe.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:25 | 6125149 TheGreatRecovery
TheGreatRecovery's picture

All wars are just battles one after another, and all battles are just smaller conflicts one after another.  "For want of a nail, the shoe was lost...."  Any victory is a good victory.  Also, this give Rand Paul the credibility and momentum to go for a slightly larger target.  That's how it's done: one step at a time.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:41 | 6125054 Debt-Is-Not-Money
Debt-Is-Not-Money's picture

They said "trust us" didn't they?

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:03 | 6125080 TeethVillage88s
TeethVillage88s's picture

We have a Military republic. The Congress and President Don't control what is going on. 17 Intelligence Agencies.

J. Edgar Hoover seems to have started it domestically (was it only the 1960s or before that)

CIA formed officially as opposing agency against communism in Turkey and Greece in 1947. The Official War on Communism. Communism was seen as a treat from 19th Century in the USA in Wobblies, Unions, and actual card carrying communist Americans.

Federal Government Agencies all take on a life of their own.

------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't turn off a Federal Agency without cutting staff and cutting budgets. Everyone knows this. Let's stop Pretending. Just like we need a purge of Public & Private Executives throughout the USA. And a purge of Lawyers. Plus 6 years top for Federal Elected Officials Term Limit. And some Aggressive Forced Retirements and early retirements in Federal Service.

Late Add: Federal Govt uses contractors & Foundations & Think Tanks, somehow we have to reduce these contracts and the advice taking from Foundations like these. Otherwise not only do Foundations & Contractors keep govt secrets but they become a shadow government.
------------------------------------------------------------------

The CIA changed Strategies, Expanded use of Proxies and contractors, and probably Funding Techniques after the Church Committee, Pike Committee, and Rockefeller Commission in the 1970s. Didn't change the Culture of the CIA one bit.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:21 | 6124996 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Waiting to cheer until I see lay off notices in Utah and lots of 'For Sale' signs going up...

The 'One Party' cannot be beaten this easily!

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:34 | 6125028 boattrash
boattrash's picture

NWJ, well, at least there'll be that huge water pipeline left over. (cooling water) that could be better used elsewhere.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:37 | 6125039 TheGreatRecovery
TheGreatRecovery's picture

One way to troll is to ridicule any small victories by citizens.   :^)

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:56 | 6125090 ersatz007
ersatz007's picture

Two can play at he ctrl-v game:

Perhaps you're the troll. Just because many are cynical that our gov't will actually work in the public's best interest, and many are skeptical about the idea that the NSA will, in fact, curtail its collection activities does not mean they are trolls or trolling.

So instead of pasting your douchetard, snarky response why don't you tell us how you and/or we, the average citizen, can reliably ensure, for ourselves whether the NSA has curtailed its activities.

As much as I'd like to believe this is a victory, forgive me if I don't have a lot of faith in our govt right now.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:04 | 6125110 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

Where are they going to dump all those Midget porn photos they collected from the SEC staff computers? I have a feeling some of them wil be pocketed.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:24 | 6125000 stant
stant's picture

They will get someone else to suck up us data while they do it for them

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:38 | 6125040 TheGreatRecovery
TheGreatRecovery's picture

One way to troll is to ridicule any small victories by citizens.   :^)

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:52 | 6125076 ersatz007
ersatz007's picture

Perhaps you're the troll. Just because many are cynical that our gov't will actually work in the public's best interest, and many are skeptical about the idea that the NSA will, in fact, curtail its collection activities does not mean they are trolls or trolling.

So instead of pasting your douchetard, snarky response why don't you tell us how you and/or we, the average citizen, can reliably ensure, for ourselves whether the NSA has curtailed its activities.

As much as I'd like to believe this is a victory, forgive me if I don't have a lot of faith in our govt right now.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:56 | 6125091 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Another is to repeat yourself over and over.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:33 | 6125159 TheGreatRecovery
TheGreatRecovery's picture

Hypothetically, which would be more honest?

Person A gets 10 different aliases, pretends to be 10 different people, and has all 10 voice the same discouraging comment but in slightly different words.

Person B responds to all 10 discouraging comments with one repeated challenge.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 23:48 | 6126097 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

I'm not so sure such an activity is occuring. Like you, I am celebrating this small victory. If nothing else, NSA will be forced to make an end run and be more likely to be detected. Senator Wyden is on the Intelligence Committee and is allied with Senator Paul on this issue. It will not be easy for the NSA. I don't believe you are a troll and I hope you don't believe that I am a mooncalf for regularly contributing to Rand Paul.

Tue, 05/26/2015 - 23:31 | 6134892 TheGreatRecovery
TheGreatRecovery's picture

No, I do not.  IMHO, Rand Paul is trying.  That takes great courage.  I can ask for no more.  Thank you.

I apologize to any and all I may have offended, AND...

I don't believe I called anyone a troll, BUT...

I did feel strongly that many were, probably unknowingly, doing trolls' work for them.  Perhaps just trying to be cute, but perhaps too young to actually have been involved in any real-life battles yet, and therefore too young to understand that much IS at stake, and that a cavalier dismissal of one's own victories can greatly damage one's own cause. 

NEVER give your enemy the field, ESPECIALLY after you have beaten him.

After Gettysburg, Lincoln asked his generals, "WHY did you not PURSUE Lee?  We had a singular opportunity to destroy his army.  In letting him slip away with it, you have allowed him to extend the war for several more years".  Or something like that. 

"Jon Snow, you know NOTHING!"  I think she will be proven right.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:08 | 6125121 TeethVillage88s
TeethVillage88s's picture

They probably have 6 Proxies in the Rolodex under mass surveillance.

I heard the Mossad set up a company in LA or somewhere and then sold the data to drug dealers to inform them of police officers locations.

Hell they could even use CIA Contracts if they really had to shut down. But they won't shut down anything. They will just keep Congress outside of the loop. Hell they should be Charged with Lying to Congress already for Alexander's performance.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:51 | 6125201 chunga
chunga's picture

Maybe my giant tinfoil hat is getting me but watch for something like "transaction modernization" in TPP. They'll say cash is obsolete and inefficient. It's holding back economic growth. Too many hard workers that play by the rules get hurt because unlawful cash use is rampant. Everybody is issued a license to possess cash with an expiration date after you acknowledge on your tax form. If you don't acknowledge you will not get a federal cash license. After said date the license expires and you are obligated to get it back in the matrix or else you lose the right to possess it for any reason.

Of course big bro' and select cronies licenses never expire because fairness and good. Once cash is banned we won't need NSA spying on everybody.

I'm having a hard time understanding why this secret TPP has to be "fast tracked" with blue and red jello alike agreeing on it.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:26 | 6125004 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

'Terrorist' attack in 5 . . . 4 . . . 3 . . .

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:32 | 6125023 Trucker Glock
Trucker Glock's picture

On a "Gulfstream 450 or larger", I hope.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 19:22 | 6125533 cooky puss
cooky puss's picture

Touché!

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:41 | 6125055 TheGreatRecovery
TheGreatRecovery's picture

One way to troll is to ridicule any small victories by citizens.   :^)

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:49 | 6125066 ersatz007
ersatz007's picture

Perhaps you're the troll. Just because many are cynical that our gov't will actually work in the public's best interest, and many are skeptical about the idea that the NSA will, in fact, curtail its collection activities does not mean they are trolls or trolling.

So instead of pasting your douchetard, snarky response why don't you tell us how you and/or we, the average citizen, can reliably ensure, for ourselves whether the NSA has curtailed its activities.

As much as I'd like to believe this is a victory, forgive me if I don't have a lot of faith in our govt right now.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:10 | 6125116 TheGreatRecovery
TheGreatRecovery's picture

Of course it is a victory.  Nothing snarky about my comment.  I don't trust the government either, but neither did the men who met in Philadelphia at that Convention where they wrote the Constitution.  And then, when those men got back to their homes, their constituents didn't trust them, and made them go back and add the Bill of Rights.  Not trusting government is wise.  IMHO, recognizing your small victories is also wise.  Your enemies will ALWAYS try to dishearten you, and one way they will do so is to minimize your victories.  Don't do their work for them.  Cynics can defeat themselves.  Much better to be a stoic than a cynic.  My opinion.  And my apologies if my comment seemed personal to anyone here.  I don't, of course, know anybody here, and it seemed like the best way to make the point, which is: GO, RAND PAUL!   YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE WITH A PAIR, UP THERE.  GREAT VICTORY!  NOW KEEP GOING!

P.S.  I think my comments here have been consistent.  If the mission of ZH is to make it harder for the Global Bankers to steal from the citizens, then I am not a troll at ZH.

P.P.S.  I upvoted you.   :-)  Good questions.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 18:10 | 6125360 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

FWIW, my cynicism won't start to ebb until I start seeing perp walks.  That program was unconstitutional from Day One, and nothing will really change until the head 'folks' end up in "pound me in the ass prison," to paraphrase Glenn Greenwald.

 

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 19:24 | 6125534 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

Never gonna happen.  Somewhere in Florida Janet Reno is a day more demented.  That sort of outcome is the best you can hope for.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:41 | 6125179 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Jimmy Dean Pork Bombs

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:27 | 6125008 teslaberry
teslaberry's picture

call me a die hard cyncical asshole, but americans are fucking morons and the nsa cia trilateral cfa folks aren't going to just sit aside with their thumb up their asses. 

 

furthermore, china now sits in the same position from the u.s. that the u.s. sat viz-a-viz the soviet union. 

 

even if there are no false flags from china------china need only prick the united states with a few dozen miliion dollars worth of spending and propoganda, and she can expect the u.s. to over-react and overspend with extraodinary self destructive self abandon. 

the u.s. didn't beat the soviet union. the soviet union imploded due to its own peak corruption and inability to lead itself in the face of its identity juxtaposition to the u.s.

 

the u.s. is now trapped betweeen a rock ( it's own oligarchy) and a hard place ( the natural race to the bottom of the political establishment in the face of a rising power opposite the u.s. ) . 

 

i think we can all expect teh nsa to resume it's programs ---if it isn't already just lying about shutting them down. 

and wehtehr false flag, or overreaction to legitimately independently existing chaos and rising non-u.s. power in the world--------------the u.s. has had its day. and the ugliest things , such as turnkey digital totalitarianism, peak in the process of a declining empire. 

 

i'm sorry i cannot celebrate in the party of free minded folks who think they won a battle here. i don't think you did. and even if you did, you're not winning the war. 

 

so long as guns and butter are funded and the population is not in open revolt, they are slaves, because they were slaves and continue to be slaves.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:38 | 6125042 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

+1

There is no way that they just pulled the plug.  There are thousands of government employees and thousands more contractors directly emplyed by the program.

The Deep State surveilance program will go Balck Op./undercover if anything.  It might no loner be official or it's activities charged to the same same accounts; but, it sure as hell isn't gone...

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:03 | 6125108 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

So what if they did pull the plug?  What about the ton of other programs that they have going? 

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:48 | 6125198 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

Nothing will change until the way cellular and internet communications are processed will change.

BBY encryption and the like only offer so much and only under perfect circumstances.

 

I once worked for waht was at the time the largest cellular roaming call company in North America.

Without even trying, I was easily able to discover/identify literally tens of millions of dollars in illicit use, credit card fraud, and was privy to more drug dealing/smuggling/etc...   I didn't beven have to try to listen in: the traffic was oblivious, often oblivious and cavalier.

Just by logging the credit card numbers -a large portion of which were being used fraudulently, noting the incoming and outgoing cell and land-line nubmers, cell tower geographic location, and routing the calls I could see obvious patterns of activity.  

At least during that period, it was appauling how porus/accessable the routing systems ( almsost ALL were actually bundled/sequencial AT&T landlines from off of the cell tower ), and just how much information was NOT being aggregated and anaylized for obvious indications of fraudulent activity...

The system is far more porus and accessable than the average person would believe..

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 06:22 | 6126375 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Is it really shutting down if they continue gathering data for Israel and they do the reading data?

 

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:27 | 6125009 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

They've got everything they need and the AWS bills for cracking were getting out of hand even for fake paper trillionaires.

 

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:52 | 6125010 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

8) We shoulda listened to William Binney.

Binney has signed the ae911truth petition under "other supporters."

The former Technical Director at NSA ain't no fool and still demonstrates the ability to look at evidence and think clearly and for himself.  Binney understands the danger.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:29 | 6125016 boattrash
boattrash's picture

"Constitution 1 - Government 0

My aching ass. I hate to break the news, but the Constitution was down by 4,387 points.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 19:32 | 6125551 cooky puss
cooky puss's picture

I was scrolling down the comments to see that one. There!

Off to sleep now :-)

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:31 | 6125019 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Still have the CIA so its not like anything has changed.

 

They invented the very idea of "data as a weapon" (Rochester, NY.)

 

Since they are not covered under any statute or "legal authority" and indeed do not even hold office with the President himself...

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:36 | 6125033 10mm
10mm's picture

Call me when every State can have it's citizens carry a self proteted firearm without out a additional FEEEE Permit AFTER a background check ANDDD can travel to and fro within the States.Ok, a card showing you passed. Or a Gold Star. Did i say Gold.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:40 | 6125045 TheGreatRecovery
TheGreatRecovery's picture

Noone here but trolls today?

One way to troll is to ridicule any small victories by citizens.   :^)

Sheesh.  Today is Saturday.  Go outside and play.  Get some Vitamin D.  Get a life.  They ain't paying you enough, and the Devil ain't gonna pay you nothing for a soul you already sold.  So cheap.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:54 | 6125086 ersatz007
ersatz007's picture

Do you actually understand what a 'troll' is? But two can play at the ctrl-v game:

Perhaps you're the troll. Just because many are cynical that our gov't will actually work in the public's best interest, and many are skeptical about the idea that the NSA will, in fact, curtail its collection activities does not mean they are trolls or trolling.

So instead of pasting your douchetard, snarky response why don't you tell us how you and/or we, the average citizen, can reliably ensure, for ourselves whether the NSA has curtailed its activities.

As much as I'd like to believe this is a victory, forgive me if I don't have a lot of faith in our govt right now.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:42 | 6125186 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Jimmy Dean Pork Bombs.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:39 | 6125051 Squid Viscous
Squid Viscous's picture

Rand should avoid small planes for a while...

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:41 | 6125056 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

Be careful what we wish for. Sign me "Cynical".

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:42 | 6125058 Condor96
Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:21 | 6125143 teslaberry
teslaberry's picture

yes saudi arabia is now going to use isis as a boogey man against its own people, particularly to cause a shakeout civil majority witch hunt to kill and dispossess shia saudi arabians and to take their wealthy and redistribute to sunni. 

 

using isis as a boogey man  allows the saudis to defelect their own violence against their own citizens to an outsider terrorist. much as the u.s. 

 

only in this case, they are the midddle man proxy funding isis directly on behalf of western powers so it's even more in your face........how ridiculous this whole thing is to cover up the overt violence. 

 

 

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:44 | 6125189 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Yabut,

Who cares?

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:44 | 6125060 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

Yet another chain yank.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:54 | 6125071 DIgnified
DIgnified's picture

Yes, I'm sure they'll get right on eliminating what they told everyone wasn't happening because "conspiracy theorists" said it was happening. 

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:53 | 6125084 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

A "deal" will be struck right before expiration. Watch.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:58 | 6125095 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

You are wise.

Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:55 | 6125089 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

"Constitution 1 - 0 Government: NSA Starts Winding Down Bulk Data Collection"

And "Robbie Parker" was "Emily Parker's" daddy.

Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission.

 

"They lie about everything. Why would they lie about this?!"

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 15:57 | 6125092 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

Ya before we scrap this tool? How about we see how it works on corruption?

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:02 | 6125104 Panic Mode
Panic Mode's picture

Not believe it a sec. People who have the privilege and power will do whatever it takes to cling on it, whatever it takes.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:07 | 6125117 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Do you trust Rand?  I heard he's voted for the TPP up till this point.  Then cried about the nsa crap all day of the last final tpp vote.  Not sure what to think about all that.  Watch there be a bunch of shit authorizing spying in the TPP lol.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:08 | 6125119 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Somebody listened to him. Maybe somebody will listen to me.

He has my vote now.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:12 | 6125127 TheGreatRecovery
TheGreatRecovery's picture

Mine too.  This is why PRIMARY ELECTIONS are the most important elections.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 17:36 | 6125297 DontGive
DontGive's picture

Take your voting pom poms and stick em up your ass. It will feel better than when the doucheknuckle you voted for deepthroats you.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:09 | 6125122 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

I recall the last time a big shakeup at the NSA happened and director had to reassure employees they still had a job.  Fuck you pieces of shit.  Pack your goddamn bags and go put a fucking for sale sign in your goddamn yard and join the rest of the country.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:11 | 6125126 wmbz
wmbz's picture

"the NSA will immediately begin curtailing its previously-secret bulk data collection"

 

Riiiiiiiight! These dickfers, will never ever stop! Just pitching out this bullshit for general comsumption. Anyone who bites into this shit sandwhich is a damn fool.

They don't play by rules! There are no fucking rules!

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:15 | 6125137 Bagbalm
Bagbalm's picture

They are lawless. The courts are nothing to them. They'll cross their fingers behind there back or re-name the program and not miss a beat.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:20 | 6125142 goldenbuddha454
goldenbuddha454's picture

If only George Washington could see what's become of our government in terms of the trampling of our rights to be secure in our property.  During his time commanding, Washington would have soldiers flogged or hanged who plundered colonists property.

http://www.infoplease.com/t/history/true-washington/congrsssional-interference.html

 

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 10:57 | 6126717 Ckierst1
Ckierst1's picture

Washington sought to strengthen the hand of the natant federal government, presiding over the Constitutional Convention, motivated by Shay's Rebellion.  Arguably, the US Constitution is the handiwork of the politica/legal/merchant elites of that era and reflects their issues and interests. The folks with modest means were largely placed in vulnerable economic positions by the monied political elites and when the common folk protested and rebelled they were out maneuvered militarily by the professionally led paid militias or US Army.  In the 15 years after the American Revolution ended there were 3 rebellions and one New England based secessionist movement.  Washington, himself, rode at the head of one expedition to quash a tax rebellion, goaded onward by Alexander Hamilton.  The excesses of some of the elitists are thought to have been a contributing factor to General Benedict Arnold turning traitor.  He was getting little recognition and promotion for his heroic efforts (He turned Saratoga into a victory but left him crippled.) and receiving much backbiting, particularly from the Pennsylvania revolutionary leadership, and recognized that the revolution was souring into another "rich man's war and poor man's fight", to borrow a phrase from a later era.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:22 | 6125144 tony wilson and...
tony wilson and saturn zion devils's picture

great news just reading about this in the guardian the times and the daily telegragh and the huff post of course.
i here soon london will be winding eschelon down gchq in cyprus and cheltenham will be made into car park and old peoples home.
the great thing about democracy like what the empire of the city of london vatican city and washington is is is
common sense rule of law and honest fair play nearly allways prevails.
great news good work fellas i always knew deep down we where the good guys what what.
the 5th estate good honest actors and jounalists won this hoorah
3 cheers for the queen

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:35 | 6125163 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

Yessireee, I also heard that the israelis will be giving up their ironclad grip on the phone billing systems, which by the way give them direct trunk accessssss to all the telphone systems globally anyway. /sarc

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 17:55 | 6125337 breezer1
breezer1's picture

Canada, Australia, Germany, and on and on......

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:24 | 6125146 WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

Constitution 1-15 Government

Probably not even that close. Government NEVER gives willingly but TAKES plenty and begrudgingly returns as little as possible.

Seriously though the vast tax-payer resource spend to keep its self in check beggars belief.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:34 | 6125160 TheGreatRecovery
TheGreatRecovery's picture

I try to be a STOIC, not a CYNIC!  :-)

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:36 | 6125165 TuPhat
TuPhat's picture

They started the data gathering even before the patriot act.  Now they are pretending to end it.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:41 | 6125171 exartizo
exartizo's picture

Oh no.

Please don't think that the government will ever "voluntarily" (by action of or force of law) give up its precious information gathering schemes *just* because some idiot bunch of lawmakers say they will.

Oh no.

The interest in and acquisition of "power over others" NEVER goes in reverse.

EVER.

Ask yourself this question...

 

Does this amazingly ballsy act (or rather lack of action) sound like the kind of people we hired to work in Washington, AT ALL?

Answer:

Hell no it doesn't.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:38 | 6125173 Anunnaki
Anunnaki's picture

Just like the kabuki on TPP.a few cosmetic changes and a week later USA Freedom Act will pass

It's over for this country. Obama wipes his ass with the Constitution every bit as much as Bush did.

We the common citizen will do what we are told by our oligarchic superiors.
That is the new reality

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:47 | 6125195 Jack Daniels Esq
Jack Daniels Esq's picture

USG are cretins, couldnt stop 9/11, not even Boston

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 19:01 | 6125478 Anunnaki
Anunnaki's picture

How you know 9/11 was a co-production between DC and Tel Aviv was
Thus:

All those people who fucked up royally on keeping us "safe" that day?

Allowing 4 planes to be hijacked. Hitting the Towrs and Pentagon

None of them were fired or punished. They got medals

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:58 | 6125216 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

NSA, start with the House, Senate, and Congress to live wire terrorism. 

If you want your department to conclude a corruption storyline. Start here. 

Your dicks are flinging in the wind for international terrorism. It's begins at the Kenyan White House. Stop with the false operatve Intel. Look at the source. 

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:59 | 6125221 Carmagnole
Carmagnole's picture

Actually, it's quite possible that some higher-up statist NSA goon got wind of the opinion of random anonymous geeks somewhere on the interwebs, saying that bulk data collection might be a tremendously useful tool to catch damning information on the crimes imprudently commited by greedy elites in one of their nefarious conspiracies. All this NSA information treasure trove could become a liability if it fell in unapproved plebeian hands due to the unlawful use by meanie terrorist hackers of one of the numerous NSA vulnerabilities introduced in most of the computer systems worldwide to get the data in the first place.

And that's without even mentioning the dreadful possibility that one of the planned diebold elections of bilderberg-approved public servants may fail, allowing someone honest(gasp) to be elected at the head of state, and the NSA would be lawfully forced to reveal all the crimes it so imprudently collected proofs on...

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 17:48 | 6125326 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

 At taste of their own cooking is the best way to deal with them. They want to dance around the truth of it. Forget that. Lets see what cards they are holding. They are bluffing about all of it.Basic logic says they have two files on each of us. Think about it. One set for them to show to their tools and another set for dirty tricks.

 Every time they bring out some feel good BS go right for the corruption. There can be no valid debate points to not use this tool right. Screw them and their false choices.

 The third choice is the correct one.

 

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 17:05 | 6125228 breadonwaters
breadonwaters's picture

Oh my, i expected the vitriol a la 'prove they vare actually stopping bulk data collection' ....and yes, i agree with both arguments.....why should we trust the nsa / oBAMA /cIA ETC ETC ETc...

 

sO THE NEXT STEP IS FOR CONGRESS ( lol)  to ascertain the bulk collection has stopped.

Anyone know how to do that?

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 17:54 | 6125333 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

See my post right above.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 17:18 | 6125253 WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

We're SAVED.

.Gov's got our back. My ring feels a little tender though.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 17:31 | 6125288 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

    It's progress for sure... I wonder who's going to unwind those rubber-stamping FISA [unelected] "Kangaroo Court Judges", that operate with impunity?

   NSA <> Star Chamber

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 17:36 | 6125293 rejected
rejected's picture

The constitution was the beginning of the end for the Republic consisting of the several states united. Under the Articles States reigned supreme. Under the Constitution the Central Government reigns supreme.

It's as simple as that. The founders admitted they wanted a strong central government. Most of the Bill of Rights was added, (Please note, they are amendments), to coax unsure states to ratify. They probably didn't want the monster we're dealing with today but they were well educated and powerful men. They had to know power corrupts. They had to know something like the government of today was a likely probability.

The whole intent of the constitution was to strip the states of sovereignty and eliminate their ability to fight central government tyranny. The uncivil war cinched that. The 14th, 16th and 17th amendments completely neutered the sovereign states. The gun laws have restricted citizen of weapons thereby eliminating the 2nd. which was supposed to allow state regulated citizen militias to own weapons on par with the national government. The CCW permitting is absolute proof the 2nd is all but gone. Under the so called Patriot Act every protection the constitution does attempt to provide is now obliterated. The NDAA allowing the incarceration of citizens with no Habeas Corpus relief or worse assassinated on a Presidents order are proof of just how far down the rabbit hole of tyranny we have gone.

Always remember who the enemy is, always...

 

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 18:10 | 6125378 DontGive
DontGive's picture

It's as simple as a land grab to establish another plantation.

Follow the years, it goes something like this:

1) Articles of Confederation 1777 - Leads to "oh shit we're broke, how do we pay for any of this?"

2) Land Ordinance 1784 - Leads to "hellz yes, now we can pay for shit"

3) Land Ordinance 1785 - Moar!

4) Northwest Land Ordinance 1787 - Moar!

5) United States Constitution 1787

So on so fourth with other land grabs over the years.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 18:17 | 6125340 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

The fallacy of this is the telecom's already bulk collect data for the government and that doesn't change. By law they have to cache all the communications and metadata. The laws are useless as tits on a boar if the systems are designed to be insecure on purpose. By law all telephone traffic encrypted or not is decrypted at any repeater point in the system i.e. cell tower then re-encrypted before being sent onto the net hop. Not only that have you ever seen a cell tower that only is used for cell phones....

Then consider most cell phone traffic will route through a satellite, whose domain is outer space or the air above the ground and above certain altitude levels?

Only way around this mess to ensure privacy is shortwave phones with encryption, bounce it off the atmosphere so there is no middle man. You don't need any satellites or cell towers, ham radio tech combined with digital dsp filtering tech to narrow the bandwidth so millions of devices can use a narrow bandwidth range (think remote garage door or car alarm tech).

Cut the middlemen out of the loop and force them to go back to actually having to crack encrypted signals like they used to have to do prior to WWII.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 18:35 | 6125407 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

It is real simple you don't want your phone conversations and metadata being recorded don't use the telecom system period, that especially includes VOIP or GSM, CDMA, etc. basically anything voice that routes through the PTSN networks.

Use OTSN which doesn't route through the PTSN and uses encryption by default and allows you to set up your own personal phone network anywhere.

Here is one public service from the guardian but you can easily set up your own.

https://ostel.co/

Best part is you can set up your phone account on an encrypted usb drive or unencrypted using a linux or tails os for phone service so you can take your 'phone' with you and use it on any computer/tablet etc without it being online all the time or possibility of transmitting metadata/gps information even when not on unlike a cellphone or anything with a dedicated antenna you can't remove when not in use.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 19:18 | 6125482 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

The best thing you can do for yourself short term is to not have any devices that have a mac address attributed to you personally that can be routed through the PTSN networks period if you don't want your voice records bulk collected (regardless of who is doing it).

If you really want to do something meaningful you will refuse to own a cellphone or landline, refuse to have any phone number that is routable through a PTSN network including stuff like vonage since VOIP without encryption is routable. Refuse to allow your cable company to install a modem with a voip adapator or telephony services in your house. You will not be in any phone databases then that way. That is how you bypass this 'law'. Remember law or no law the telecom's already bulk collect all this data privately and that isn't going to change anytime soon. By not owning any devices or phone numbers fixes that problem.

I will only voice talk over a line using an OTSN service these days. I won't even use a cellphone network's data network to use OTSN even though it can be setup to do so with apps. You vote through your actions.

If enough people do this you'll see your government's true colors when they force people by law to own a cellphone....

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 19:29 | 6125543 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

If you want to use this anywhere in the world using a simple wifi connection bypassing your ISP or free hotspots so you don't have to use a cellphone you can set something up to connect to a service like this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outernet

Unless you use shortwave you have to route through some sort of repeater.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 18:40 | 6125428 GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

Fuck Lincoln. 

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 18:46 | 6125443 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I've been studying Lincoln over the last couple of years.

  I wouldn't go so far as your comment, but HISTORIES record of Lincoln is far removed from FACT...

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 18:54 | 6125463 Anunnaki
Anunnaki's picture

Do they still teach that the Civil War was about freeing the slaves in American Schools?

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 19:26 | 6125540 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Only on weekends. It seems that all religions respect Roman & Greek interpretations of labor.

 The slaves need to be fed and watered...

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 23:15 | 6126043 Porous Horace
Porous Horace's picture

Not to defend Lincoln, but Truman signed the National Security Act.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 18:43 | 6125440 GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

Fuck Lincoln. 

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 18:46 | 6125444 Dr. Bonzo
Dr. Bonzo's picture

By "winding down" you mean reclassify to a level beyond governmental oversight.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 18:53 | 6125461 CHC
CHC's picture

Seriously?!?  People actually think the NSA and other government spy agencies are going to stop spying on the American people?!?  LOL  You're out of your fucking mind if you believe that! 

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 19:22 | 6125510 Duc888
Duc888's picture

 

 

You guys are kidding, right?  You do know there are basically NO laws, rules and regs pertaining to any corporations gathering bulk data on anyone, right?  You also realize that just because we decide to try to make it illegal for a government entity to collect bulk data that it means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the government entity simply because all they have to do is start a private corp to do the dirty deed.  Or maybe they simply pay a company XXX tens of millions of dollars for their data feed.

 Then they pay another private company to study the bulk data and categorize it, strain it, process it and take what info they need from the bulk data.

There are absolutely no laws against Boeing spying against Lockheed / Martin.  Same here.

 

Do you have any idea how many of these companies ALREADY EXIST for the sole purpose of doing this?  Dozens of companies have been formed since 911 to do just this.  All legally.  But hey if it makes you feel better, keep believing that one iota of the Constitution has "been restored".

 

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 06:29 | 6126380 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

And Israel as well as other countries.  The data gift a few years ago was to test their sear algorithms just for this optional outcome.

All part of a plan

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 19:16 | 6125519 IronForge
IronForge's picture

NSA's still going to build their "Internet Repository" in Salt Lake City - Mormon Land.

That's going to cause almost every Mormon to be related to a NSA Employee (highly inbred - IIRC, 87% can trace their ancestry.com lineage to their original founders).

Putting pieces together, they've been flocking around almost every US Govt Office (FBI, DoD, and Near NSA Central) for years now. 

Since the Mormons are Masonic(includes the Possessed Quakers, Klansmen, Jehovah Witness Fraudsters, Sex Cult OTO (and by relation, Scientology), Christian Science, and the Crazy Pentecostals), we've another reason to call the Five-Eyed Fraud/Surveillance Alliance a Masonic Racket.

Since the Vatican and its Paedophile Condoning Minions tend to try to stick their finger into everything (6 SCOTUS Justices are Catholic, 3 Jewish, No Protestant nor Non-Affiliated (that comprise 72% of our Population, correct?), we've a Influence Peddling Scheme of Masons and Catholics, which compose the Bulk of Neo(-Zio)cons, Neo(-Zio)Liberals, and the Free Trade Klepto-Oligarchy.

Is it any wonder WHY are Foreign and Monetary Policy are so FUBAR'd?

 

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 23:13 | 6126038 Porous Horace
Porous Horace's picture

I'll believe it when they start demolishing that new data warehouse they built in Utah. The NSA doesn't care what Congress thinks, and Congress doesn't care what the American public thinks. The only thing that will stop the NSA is nuclear bombs.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 23:18 | 6126046 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

HAHAHAHAHA

The joke is on us.

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 00:01 | 6126108 dreadnaught
dreadnaught's picture

they will wind down NOTHING-they will just do it in secret

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 19:36 | 6127952 honestann
honestann's picture

correction:
constitution 0
government 5748978597

The predators-that-be ALWAYS just ignore limitations they don't approve, and they will in this case too.

Mon, 05/25/2015 - 01:40 | 6128643 onmail
onmail's picture

Any govt. which acts to bulk spying on citizens, should know that the revolution is around the corner, because they forget the basic idea : The People are the Owners of the Nation. You act against owners You are gone

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