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But all they wanted was $15 per hour?
h/t @Stalingrad_Poor
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3d print the food bitchez!
"Would you like another order of BIG-ASS FRIES?!"
Google McEye senses you'd like a shake wif dat.
Fucking imbeciles can always find a job at the TSA.
Why can't they make a kiosk that replaces the dumb fucking politicians. Think about it. How hard would that be, the people could just order what they want(more food stamps, unemployment compensation, and cell phones) and cut out the bankers. I mean the kiosk don't care about money, drugs or prostitution. At the very least, government would be more democratic.
Haaaha Remain Calm, good thought. Just pictrung the halls of world givs filled with screens.
Governments would not be so ugly either.
That said, this is the technocratic tip-toe. The machine finally taking away jobs that a human would not mind doing...
Tipping point...machine strong, human weak...
https://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2010/06/13/machine-strong-human-weak/
This photo shows the modern soylent green user interfacing stations.
I'd like to hypothecate those fries, please.
FUCK YOUR MACHINES, that is all.
The one kid that feeds the machines gets $16 an hour.
Word is 10000 applied for the job.
As a corporation it will work great. You signed in to complain about your order and get placed on hold.....forever ;-)
That is so 2008 - teleprompter in chief.
WHAT??? You mean the ONLY reason I have to work is because I am TOO CHEAP??? Fuck this shit! Put the minimum wage up to ten thousand bucks an hour PRONTO! Let the corporations invent machines to REPLACE US ALL!!!
Money? Why would we need money? Money is just proof that you helped with production and are therefore entitled to a portion of the produce. With machines doing ALL of the work, no-one helps with production so we're all equally entitled to the produce.
You don't need money when food is plentiful. You just pick it off a tree (or whack it on the head) and eat. Money is a direct product of SCARCITY.
...but there are plenty of people out there who would prefer scarcity just so they can make lots of money. Stupid idiots put the cart before the horse. They forgot what the original problem was.
Gene Roddenberry made this point in spades in his "Star Trek" universe. The Federation (including Earth) quite using money, or even having a concept of it, after cheap energy (first fusion, then matter-antimatter reactors) and replicator technology powered by it largely eliminated scarcity.
The Ferengei (aka "Jews in Space") continued to cling to obsolete notions like the notional value of precious metals, and were used to illustrate profit-driven artificial scarcity derived foolishness.
Max Headroom for Prez!!!
Quite obviously this is an image from a MacDono installation in suburbia.
Kiosks that flimsy will get tow up in the first brawl in the hood.
Yeah, but that's "bullish".
Just ask Krugman.
Not to mention most people who eat McDonalds are probably too retarded to even use those things and just go to the employee at the register
Imagine paying in, in,... cash.
Imagine an afternoon sitting under the bright lights trying to explain where you got that five dollar bill from.
ATMs can be deployed beside the ordering/paying stations for the convenience of those wanting to pay cash. (Obamacare mandates the rejection of food orders that are bad for your health, and if you use your own credit or debit card they know who you are.)
Which reminds me of a presentation I attended some three decades ago, wherein the company for which I worked, a second-tier computer company (IBM was the first tier all by itself) was releasing a new ATM that included audible lead-through instructions. As the presentation was nearing its end a simulated deposit transaction was performed and at the end the ATM courteously said "Thank you". I started to chuckle - which wasn't appreciated at all - because my wife had a recently purchased top-end Chrysler K-Car (talk about oxymorons!) that had audio capabilities (I hated it, because it kept telling me the door was a jar, and that it had low oil pressure when the engine was turned off) and I envisioned it responding "You're welcomed" when my wife drove up to and used that style of ATM. Mercifully, neither device - talking ATM nor talking car - gained acceptance in the marketplace.
The check-out chicks will lose their jobs but a few months later there will be plenty of jobs available for security guards.
No different to public transport where they got rid of all the friendly "conductors" who would sell you a ticket while you were on the train ( - no missing the train while you buy a ticket ) - yeah, saved the transport companies heaps of money, didn't it? Just enough so they could use the savings to hire security guards instead - who will never sell you a ticket, they're just there to punish you if you don't have a ticket.
Wooo,hooo, efficiency here we cummm!
The future of welfare is self-check-out supermarkets and this:
Stealing will be a capital offence. The richest workers will fearfully pay for their stuff. Everyone else will just grab stuff and walk out the door. Security cameras will film the lot. The old, the mentally retarded and the weak will be ignored. As labour is required, the young and able-bodied will be caught and sentenced to death but they will plea-bargain and instead willingly go to jail to work in the prison-farms. If production gets too low then the old and weak will be rounded up and given the maximum penalty.
Kiosks that flimsy will get tow up
So what? The server is in the safe. The McKiosk is made out of Raspberry Pi's with a cheap screen, and a piece of plastic. Max $150 to replace. One day's worth of previous part time employee salary + benefitts + FICA + accounting + etc.
I predict the reason for the brawl will be the delivery of the incorrect type of sauce with a McNuggets order.
Please come back when you can afford to make a purchase. Your kids are starving. Carl's Jr. believes no child should go hungry. You are an unfit mother. Your children will be placed in the custody of Carl's Jr.
Carl's Jr - Fuck You, I'm Eating.
"Would you like another order of BIG-ASS FRIES?!"
Only if it comes with an Extra Big Ass BRAWNDO!
At what price point would labour remain competitive with such devices over the next ten years..?
Looks like that point is moot; we know it's less than $15/hour...
The point is the machines will replace labour regardless. Machines are currently apt to do most of the jobs majority of humans relied on and were paid for - both well and poorly - in the past. Minimum wage is a separate concern.
Not at smaller 'mom and pop' businesses that can't afford expensive automation (I realize the costs of automation are dropping, but will still be out of the reach of many small businesses for some time yet).
In any case, if your job can be performed by a machine/robot, or if your function is duplicative or not cost-efficient, I suspect you will be replaced in the future. How near that future is, is still a matter for debate.
Of course, TPP will help hasten that process...
Mom and Pop will be phased out.
Do it for the children
Already have been. There are almost none left around here. The anti-smoking laws, 5 years ago, helped finish them off. Corporate borrowing at the FED trough guarantees their ultimate demise. Then there's this;
http://blog.friendseat.com/fast-food-lobbies-food-stamp-acceptance/
I'd bet 90% of 'mom and pops' use various forms of automation, mostly software based but automation nonetheless.
How near in the future is the relevant question - everyone will be superseded by hardware/ software inevitably.
These machines are not cheap and they never will be cheap because they are rather custom for each business. They are very large capital investment. They need to be maintained and they need to be replaced just to keep appearances fresh and new.Then there is the self-serve nature for customers. Now for people who don't like dealing with people that's great, but a lot of customers resent doing this sort of thing.
People will be better for these jobs for the forseeable future. The problem is when the people just cost too much to maintain price point and that's where the machines start coming in.
Couple of points
The average hood rat is way to stupid to use this machine even with picture menus,
Point two is let's say 16 hours a day 7 days a week At 15 bucks an hour pay back on a 5 thousand dollar kiosk is in weeks.
Bigger surprise is the self checkout lanes haven't become the norm at stores.
Personally I would prefer the bot. I hate people.
Where do you two live? Self checkouts dominate here in the DC burbs. Every WAWA and Sheetz has a deli with these self ordering computers and every gap toofed moron knows how to get their samich exactly how they like it...even I figured it out.
Life is about to get worse for quite a few folks.
I used to work at a bank inside of a grocery store. It was positioned in a prime spot right in front of the self-checkout. I enjoyed watching the gap toofed morons try to use these things. It took them at least 3x as long as a normal cashier would have. The poor guys monitoring these machines would sometimes practically beg people to take their overflowing carts of crap to a register but they never would. They'd just hold up everyone else while they tried to scan and bag their own groceries.
I don't understand why people even use the self-check-out. I expect a lot of people, especially in the poorer, less-nice neighbourhoods, would simply walk out with their stuff, or only pay for a small portion of it.
I envision that future shops will simply be great big vending machines.
Anybody buying food at a place named "WAWA" deserves to be
screwed totally and completely.
Are you a complete fool?
http://www.wawa.cc/living-in-wawa/about-wawa/our-famous-canada-goose/
I wouldn't mind the self checkout crap myself if they would credit me Minimum wage for the time I spend ringing and bagging my purchase, ie your total is $35 less -$1.00 for the six minutes you spent self checking out. I mean the PRICES HAVE THAT LABOR BUILT INTO THEM. I should at least be given an incentive.
The majority of people I've noticed who hate self-checkouts are 60+ years old.
These machines would pay for themselves within a couple years, and that is a good investment. You only need one tech, and this tech would service many locations, not just one
I'm not 60+ but I hate those self checkout machines there do not work well; i.e., they don't scan well and you must stand there and repeatedly swipe your item back and forth over the laser ... and then it still has a problem and a loud voice calls out, "Attendant called."
I do like the ones that work and they are much better then standing in line watching people's credit cards declined at the ocunter and then they fumble for cash or cooins in th ebottom of their purse for an $11.86 checkout total.
I hate those things and am nowhere close to 60. Why would anyone appreciate the scanning and bagging work being thrown back onto the customer?
Exactly. And fucking IKEA wants customers to schlep their crap furniture themselves from the rafters
Margins have been greatly squeezed by FED QE. Before QE, I'd occasionally eat off of their dollar menu, mainly because I liked their iced tea. I also ate at local BBQ joints. Not anymore, both places have been forced to raise their prices higher than they're worth. The BBQ places are dwindling due to slow sales. MCD's will too, eventually. They have a direct line to the FED/Wall Street lending machine, plus overseas sales, to keep their operations alive. Automats didn't work the last time, either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automat
I think the last time I saw/ate at an automat was at least 30 years ago. Food was so shitty. LOL
But at what point will people vote smarter (and in their longer term best interests) with their wallets?
If Walmart is any example - not before its too late. The people actually love their corporate oligarch masters (even if they also love to pay lip service to some philosophical hatred of them).
Even if someone goes the Amazon route for something they cannot find locally, what are the chances they choose Bezos Inc over smaller merchant just to save a few pennies?
Why do you believe that it would be in my best interests to pay up to forty percent more to some other corporation (which pays its employees no better than Walmart) for the same goods which I can purchase at Walmart for less?
Mop and Pop aren't being "phased out" but rather they are phasing themselves out.
Why do short term financial benefit at the transactional level does not outweigh capital flight and opportunity at the macro level or over long term?
Few of the things I buy at Walmart are available at any local "Mom and Pop." It's a choice between corporation A or corporation B. There's little reason to assume that capital flight occurs more with one than other.
That depends on corporation A and corporation B. Unless they are both multinationals owned largely by institutional investors, there is plenty of reason to assume that capital flight will be worse with one of them.
Can you give me a formula for determining when capital flight negates the value of paying anywhere from 10% to 40% less for the majority of items which I require on a weekly basis? What's more important to me as a consumer than the capital flight out of the area is the capital flight out of my own pocket when I pay substantially more for an identical item.
I do buy some items which are less expensive or of better quality at a locally owned corporate chain. But if I have to stop shopping at Walmart so that I can more righteously spend more money at the local corporate store at what point do I have to stop shopping at the local corporate store and patronize only farmer's markets? Where does it end?
I can tell you where it starts: with our choices as individual consumers. Those decisions, in aggregate, flow through the system and determine what will be sold by whom and for how much. It would seem that consumers have decided that Walmart offers many good options while in other cases another store can provide a better value. So I see no reason for Walmart bashing based on someone else's unquantifiable economic or social concerns.
I could give you a formula but you've made up your mind, so there's no point. You have chosen self destructive consumtion. As I stated in my first post in this thread and which you have so clearly demonstrated-
The people actually love their corporate oligarch masters.
"The people actually love their corporate oligarch masters."
Of course such an emotional argument is all you have left when you refuse to quantify to what degree assumed capital flight negates the savings accrued when one seeks the best value at the best price as all rational consumers do.
Let me add that I've enjoyed our conversation as you are an intelligent person from whom we all could learn some things. And I didn't downvote you (I feel really stupid saying that but there it is).
That's not an emotional argument, even if there a good dose of hyperbole in it. You are engaging in sophistry, not reason. Go back and reread Adam Smith - I would advise to focus on taxes vs tarrifs and local production vs imported goods, but focus risks blinding one to larger truths, either you will get it or you won't.
What are you going to tell this guy? He likes his toilet paper a few dollars off...
Just ask Banzai to take the Don't Tread On Me flag and turn it into one of a snake eating itself. "Don't Shame On Me" is what these people demand now
What are you going to tell this guy? He likes his toilet paper a few dollars off...
If having more money is bad for the consumer then why would workers need a higher wage? That just gives them more money as consumers which in your opinion is bad.
You have no clue of my opinion. You are seeing a small aspect like a rodent. Holy fuck yes you are right simple math shows a few sheckles gained in someone's pocket for immediate gratification with the inevitable demise of a great nation.
If you call being able to afford to eat "immediate gratification" then you sound just like a limousine liberal even if you are the rodent that you claim to be.
expand your timeframe - thinking week to week is a slave mentality to begin with.. get out of that mindset and you'll start having a better sense of self
Following some basic principles that would rationally support a society's self sustainment wouldn't seem like all that much to ask, but evidently it is.
In a normal and rational world it would only seem apparent that to buy imports or hire immigrants would reflect poorly on our own employment and income circumstances, but the easy availability of credit as well as the taxes and regulations on domestic businesses making them even less competitive, all while listening to our government and crony businesses telling us we are being racists to suggest exporting our wealth and employment is anything but patriotism, ensures we continue our downward spiral.
We have been fucking ourselves for decades while they grease the wheels. It"s about time we woke up, but I don't think that will happen until it's far too late to matter...exactly as they imagined it. The longer this lasts and the worse it gets, they approximate we will become more desperate and malleable.
I think we all know where this is heading. The real question is what lies in store for we outliers, we nonconformists?
Just so I can feel like part of the gang (or not) does it make me a conformist or a nonconformist if I buy dozens of white No. 2 plastic pails at Walmart for $2.97 which I use to grow a variety of fruits and vegetables and if I pay Walmart 50% less per quart of lighter fluid which I use to start my wood stove that I stock with scavanged firewood while keeping my furnace set in the 40s or 50s here in Western PA?
Shopping at Walmart is part of a strategy for living in a seriously screwed up, centrally controlled world. It's foolish to think, as some do, that the very act of shopping at Walmart in order to save money which one can then be spent elsewhere or to save money which one simply didn't have to begin with makes one less of a human being.
Is it foolish to think that rather than hiring your neighbor to paint your house, you hire an illegal from the next town over for less money, that that same neighbor may suffer economically for it? Are we to suggest that his solution is to move in with his cousins, four couples to a house to make ends meet so you can get a better deal?
If we don't give a fuck about our neighbors, our country, then why the fuck should they care about US?
We don't have a choice about buying plastic buckets because all American plastic manufactures have closed or moved off shore. That was OUR choice.
"We don't have a choice about buying plastic buckets because all American plastic manufactures have closed or moved off shore."
Encore Plastics 5-Gallon Pail, WhiteOrigin of Components: USA
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Encore-Plastics-5-Gallon-Pail-White/20703096
"Are we to suggest that his solution is to move in with his cousins, four couples to a house to make ends meet so you can get a better deal?
Do you seriously believe that if I, as a consumer, chose the best possible product for the best possible price that I am responsible for a loss of revenue to those who are located closer to me geographically but who can not offer a good product at a good price? By that line of reasoning if I eat at one of ten pizza shops in town I'm responsible for the other nine shop owners living in poverty.
But in reality, if one can't provide a product or service at a price people want then they need to find another line of work. When an individual makes a productive contribution to others all are enriched.
"By pursuing his own interest, he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it. I have never known much good done by those who affected to trade for the public good." -- Adam Smith
So the job losses, our economic situating has nothing to do with how we spend our money?
I really love how all the brilliant people so easily calculate how none of this could be THEIR fault. Bernanke....is that you???
I would suggest that if you were in a job that you were truly busting your ass in and losing ground everyday to imports reliant on stolen intellectual property and near slave labor wages, you MIGHT see things differently.
Our collective actions define our world. Even the lowlifes ruling over us rely on our complacency, complicity or stupidity to keep them in their positions.
Our collective actions define our world.
True, but that doesn't mean that we are not individuals. No system, economic or otherwise can work in the long run if you demand that individuals must suffer for your vision of the greater good. As Smith said the greater good is served by each individual playing his role as an individual not as part of a hydra-headed monster.
If you are quoting Adam Smith in a defense of Walmart, you either do not understand the context in which the Wealth of Nations was written and Smith's views on monopolies, or you are a simple troll pandering to the economically illiterate around here (of which there are too many).
Hint: East India Company
You also keep trying to misconstrue what I argued by false reduction to a single (geographic) variable. If you really cannot grasp complexity or consequences, then ask yourself this- what do you buy at Walmart that cannot be purchased elsewhere? The answer is NOTHING. You are choosing to patronize an oligarchical multinational that employs economies of scale, corruption of politicians, tax avoidance to drive out competition, erect barriers to entry, destroy jobs and extract wealth and capital from local communities.
Choices have consequences, and rational informed economic choice takes into account those consequences.
Choices have consequences, and rational informed economic choice takes into account those consequences.
Please give specific examples where you purposely pay 40% more for the exact same product available elsewhere for less. I'd love to hear about all those rational, informed choices.
That would be any time you chose a locally owned merchant versus a foreign owned merchant. The profit (wealth) from trade flows to the owners. Since the State and the people therein, share the same pool of money/capital/wealth net flow determines aggregate wealth.
You see a value which I don't see and you are willing to pay for it as is your choice. When you can give me hard figures as to how hungry I must go in order to increase wealth for some other individuals I might reconsider. Get out that slide rule.
Here are some figures to use in your calculations. Yesterday I ate a bowl of cereal with milk and a bagel with cheese sprinkled on it. How can I best redeploy my five dollars per day food budget for the maximum local employment effect while keeping some skin on my bones?
The issue is larger than you, it is the community in which you live. The community has certain expenses that do (and will) have to be paid out of either the aggregate production or aggregate savings of the community (e.g. police and fire, road maintenance, pensions, schools). By collectively choosing to pay less now and export wealth to other communities, you are ensuring the communities' ability to foot even the current tax bill (before those unfunded liabilities actually have to be funded) will be lower in the future, and the greater the depletion of aggregate savings. Every community is different. The one I live in now has a quirky fetish for paying "full price", and an even more bizarre series of trade oligopolies that are setup as cooperatives, which when combined with a positive trade balance create the highest household net worth of any real country (i.e. non City-State) on earth, but it comes at the most expensive poverty line in the world. The US (at the national level) is fucked beyond hope, its export of wealth has built the Gulf from sleepy beaches and scattered towns to a string of skyscraper filled metropolises that SocCal look a redneck backwater, and countless Chinese manufacturing hubs and ghost cities alike- All of which could have built in America instead and addressed that crumbling infrastructure and growing rust belt problem. The individual states vary greatly, but in no case is Walmart going to pay your locl property tax bill (unless you are a large shareholder or reside in Bentonville). In this case it will take a village... to save the village.
You really have no idea what it's like to live hand to mouth, do you? I've been up and I've been down but I've never insisted that those who try to make it on their own without charity should throw away the little money they do have and starve for the greater good. You'd make a fine politician. You've got the patter and the compassion thing down perfectly.
Politicians are about bullshitting the masses and misrepresenting reality to win votes. I'd make a horrible politician, but I do know what it's like to live hand to mouth. I ran out of money bootstrapping my current business and had to eat beans and rice for year, and while I am more comfortable now, FATCA dictates that if I want to maintain the option to part ways with Uncle Sam at any time and not pay an exit tax, that I have to live closer to the poverty line than the median income line, until I surrender, quit, or die.
There hasn't been an independent individualist American since Dick Proenneke died. The public debate and religion of American Individualism is as filled with bullshit as the debate and religion of American Exceptionalism. The blunt reality is that an existence based on exporting future promises to pay, is unsustainable, and the individual cannot be entirely divorced from the surrounding community.
why dont you simply paint your own house, there is no economic stimulus for such a simple activity, most things can be done (if slightly slower and more carefully) by yourself, but unfortunatly based on the comment you must simply be lazy.
I have and I do.
But in case you hadn't noticed we were discussing trade,
and further if you haven't noticed, most people do not have the skills to dig lint from their navel, and even less motivation to do more than is absolutely demanded of them.
most people do not have the skills to dig lint from their navel, and even less motivation to do more than is absolutely demanded of them.
And yet you want me to patronize them rather than do business with those who can and do provide a good product at a good price.
That argument didn't work in the 30's when tractors were phased in. Automation first replaced the draft horse and then most of the farm laborers. Farmers used to have a hired man working for them year round. Dairy men often had more than one. Now they mostly get by with some seasonal help at picking time. My grandfather's hired man was reputedly hiding out from his wife back in Norway, if not from something even worse.
And debt didn't support the tractor market?
Its too bad all those farmers lost their farms in the thirties...because of what again???Massive farm lending, much of it driven exactly by what you suggest...technology and the promise of those productivity gains of technology. Look at FDR's agenda. He destroyed crops and livestock, specifically to get prices up. He deliberately dismissed technology such as the milking machine, specifically because he wanted higher prices AND employment.
When technology is not supported by debt...debt from many different sources, it doesn't have the potency to make massive labor disruptions. In a real world, technology could only exist if there was real money to pay for it, and that money would come from the markets they are serving. To invest in technology that destroyed your customer base would be stupid....but if you could print or loan people money to buy your production, even if they had lesser or no job at all, your investment schemes might play out differently.
The expenditure of unearned or yet to be earned money destabilizes the economy. It has been mentioned for years how government military and space spending has subsidized technology. How much of that money has been debt??? We see manufacturers selling billions in technology to consumers, much of it with debt, all lowering costs to the big guys who use the leading edge of this technology, technology we are all paying for, to replace us.
I didn't say I disagreed with you. Your logic is irrefutable; however, it didn't stop technology then and it won't stop it now. There is a payoff for the banks in destroying the customer base. They get to take possession of something that cost them nothing and sell again. Then, when everyone is ruined and the last sucker is bled dry they have a war and start the whole thing over again.
Without disagreeing with anything you say, I can tell you that it is all moot in the face of nearly unlimited fiat production, via fractional-reserve, debt-based money.
Long story short, honest competition cannot survive the margin squeeze created by those with access to unlimited "capital."
Yes, that's it. Adam Smith uses the term "invisible hand" just once in TWON. He uses it not to describe how markets work in general but specifically employed it as a metaphor for the unseen method by which citizens of a nation seek to spend their wealth within their nation rather than abroad. In other words, the invisible hand reduces capital flight. Here's Smith's own words but, as you well understand, this mechanism of the invisible hand is not only undercut but entirely reversed when one lives in a world of fiat money and reserve currencies.
"But the annual revenue of every society is always precisely equal to the exchangeable value of the whole annual produce of its industry, or rather is precisely the same thing with that exchangeable value. As every individual, therefore, endeavours as much as he can, both to employ his capital in the support of domestic industry, and so to direct that industry that its produce maybe of the greatest value; every individual necessarily labours to render the annual revenue of the society as great as he can. He generally, indeed, neither intends to promote the public interest, nor knows how much he is promoting it. By preferring the support of domestic to that of foreign industry, he intends only his own security; and by directing that industry in such a manner as its produce may be of the greatest value, he intends only his own gain; and he is in this, as in many other cases, led by an invisible hand to promote an end which was no part of his intention. Nor is it always the worse for the society that it was no part of it. By pursuing his own interest, he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it. I have never known much good done by those who affected to trade for the public good. It is an affectation, indeed, not very common among merchants, and very few words need be employed in dissuading them from it." -- Smith's The Wealth of Nations
Yes, exactly. If we were to live in a free and transparent marketplace, our choices would be much more clear as well. we are being manipulated. People must understand and accept this if there is ever to be hope.
To act in one's own self interest is not always as easy as one might think, especially when we are simultaneously being pulled by manipulation and pushed by oppressive force. the cost of liberty remains high...as it always has been.
ANYTHING that is offered as a means to simplify our lives is simply another method of manipulation. Our modern world is dominated by convenience and each and every one has greased the skids on this path to what I fear is irreversible tyranny. The level of dependency has NEVER been higher, the power of government has NEVER been higher and the perceived price of liberty has NEVER BEEN HIGHER. To hope and wish for some elected leader to raise the veil and relinquish their power is far far too much to ask or expect. Our only choice is to simply pull back...go Galt if necessary. It will be very expensive to everything we now hold dear.
The good news is that gravity always wins and the oligarchs' house of cards will fall some day, some how. The bad news is the same as the good news. The important part is how the pieces are picked up and put back together. If I ever get the boot off my throat it will never go back. But the surest way to find that boot back upon one's neck is to be envious of the rich and successful for no other reason than that they are rich and successful because the angels of light who arise to right such wrongs are inevitably the worst devils of all.
Come come Billy, so much smarts and you still believe in New Ton and Gravity? Hmmmm......
I used to think that maybe you were a Wyandot because they are Indians from the region of Ohio (OH). Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Chief.
This is why we have cycles...multi generational cycles. We just can't seem to learn anything and pass it along very many generations before we repeat the same mistake....again and again. we become the victims of our successes where a principled and free existence creates the prosperity to make us believe we can leave those things that made us prosperous behind.
Speaking of necks, This never gets old.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilien_Robespierre
When clearing Robespierre's neck, the executioner tore off the bandage that was holding his shattered jaw in place, causing Robespierre to produce an agonized scream until the fall of the blade silenced him.
The national trade deficit is quantifiable. It's released regularly. It will come out of future living standards via devalued currency. Buy all you can now, before the dollar meets its future reset. There will be plenty of 'mom and pops' then. They will be forced to do most anything for a living. Trade deficits are a gov.'s way of subsidising today's corporations at the future citizens' expense. And, don't think for a second that it benefits the corporation's consumers, who have absolutely no say about it's suppliers. The wage differential between the US and other countries is also quantifiable. There have been thousands of people, around here, who've been replaced by Chinese slave laborers. Yet, it's someone how the greatest crime of all time that the brotha's are simply descendents of slaves from 150 years ago.
And, don't think for a second that it benefits the corporation's consumers, who have absolutely no say about it's suppliers.
Please explain why paying only $2.50 for a jar of jelly at Walmart as opposed to paying $4.00 at the "local" corporate chain for the exact same item is not beneficial to me.
If spending more than is necessary benefits the consumer then why don't you send me a check. Then you will have spent money for nothing in return (which you consider to be beneficial) and I will have earned cash for doing absolutely nothing of value (which would be beneficial to me). It's a win-win. Don't forget to tell your friends how satisfied you are when you purchase High Priced Nothing from Billy. Let's start a trend.
I personally have zero problem with automation in any business enterprise.
All businesses are started, first and foremost, with the goal of generating revenue and turning a profit.
The creation of jobs comes, not out of social responsibility, but as a means of reaching, and expanding upon, the first goal.
When new technologies arrive that help increase revenue and profits by reducing operating costs, so be it.
This is why it is incumbent on everyone who is employed by others to take careful measure of their situation.
Is your vocation one which is labor intensive?
Is your specific task package one where emerging technologies, or offshoring...., can provide a more cost effective means for the enterprise to accomplish the same task?
The moment you arrive at an answer of YES, that is the time to start considering an different career.
Again, the creation of jobs comes not out of social responsibility, but as a means of reaching, and expanding upon, the first goal, which is profit.
From the red arrows, it seems some people can't handle the truth.
I don't think the invention of the wheel caused anyone to starve.
Technology is a market response to labor costs and in a free market would not unemploy anyone for long. It is the fact that we have debt and cheap imports of goods and labor that allows imbalances to come about. We are importing cheap labor and manufactured goods to offset our reduced incomes. This would not work in normal circumstances because the reduced employment would not be tolerated for long, but instead we have public and private debt which can allow us to live in some sense a suspended animation, consuming theoretical future income today, only long enough to allow the drivers of the imbalances to become part of our dependencies. We see it personally today in automobiles where a new pickup can be $60-$85k and nobody cares because they can get an eight year loan. We can see massive unemployment or should i say, non participation in our joyous labor events, while our government provides entitlements of varying types that taxpayers would NEVER tolerate without the bottomless well of trillions in government debt.
An unbalanced (concentrated wealth) society topples. This particular automation is being driven by FED counterfeiting. Adam Smith's invisible hand was amputated by these thieves. W/o the invisible hand, there is no social contract(responsibility). God save the FED!/sarc/
IN 10 years the unemployment rate will be 50+%
My guess is 5 or less. It's being held together by wish full thinking right now
I sense that all of us millions of slugs on Social Security are going to be murdered in some manner by our loving government.
I'm not so sure I want a flu shot from them. I suspect the VA will also begin "clearing" the books too.
I think I've been in a Mcdonalds maybe once or twice in 10 years....like the fries.
Don't be absurd. Even with 75% not participating in the labor force we just count those who are on current benefits as being unemployed, cut the time for those benefits, and ignore everyone else, making the unemployment rate a healthy 2%.
Just like we see glaciers melting then we lie and pretend they are forming new ice! It's the new math.
Trade Minister: "Activate the 'Droids!"
'3d print the food bitchez'!
It would probably taste better.
It's "food" not food.
This is actually just another great indicator that the end game is coming. The worldwide economy has been built on cheap debt and cheap energy. Both of which are comng to an end. So...all those workers at McDonalds and elsewhere displaced by SKYNET still will have no other high paying jobs....( or ANY jobs at all for that matter )...to go to after gettig fired by their Robot Overlords....and thus Mr. Yellen and her successor will cotinue to scratch their heads as to what is going on in this jobless economy, shrug their shoulders and then proceed to once again hit CTRL-ALT-P. Which allows companies to get cheap debt, which fuels R & D to continue to build out SKYNET and thus hollow out the work force even further. Snake eating it's own tail.
Then....and only then....when McDonalds and other corps. clean out their employees with SKYNET will they finally get it. That they have cut out their VERY customers. No one will even have enough for a fucking dollar menu, served to them by a robot.
That's when it all comes down.
that's why they folded so easily on ACA...
No, this is the result of the ACA....
No is is a result of an overwhelming sense of entitlement aNd a social safety net that is far too generous to sustain.
minimum wage laws create unemployment... increasing the minimum wage increases unemployment...
q.e.d.
Yep.
So now, where are college grads with BA degrees supposed to work?
If you work a minimum wage job, you will live a minimum wage lifestyle, whether the wage is $8 and hour, $15 an hour or $150 an hour. Prices of goods will match the minimum wage. Quit arguing about it, its a meaningless waste of time.
minimum wage laws create unemployment... increasing the minimum wage increases unemployment...
Compare this list to minimum wage wrt countries listed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_unemployment_rate
Oops... those machines look WHITE!!! racism on parade!!!! call in Melon-head Sharpton and the Baltimore bitches!!! Let's loot and burn and steal... again... that will show them!! Hands up!! Don't POOP!!
did you really expect a black machine to be able to do the math? Colored......something.....matters
This is the atmosphere in America...Battle of Fort Pillow. You young or middle aged...I'm sure are white males...are sure as hell ready to kill every black person good or bad.
it's amazing the amount of forgetfulness on how we got here as far as race relations. I guess the blacks shipped themselves here and made themselves slaves and chose to not learn and be treated with such disdain...and then ensured that their descendants would be thought of as less than human. Those damned blacks...why are they so mad?
ZeroHedge is Drudge Report 2.0. Anytime a black is mentioned...STORMFRONT must have a link...just saying.
Boo hoo hoo
No man, there are race baiters on all sides. It is the new USSA. One of the primary wedges being used by the banksters to drive us all apart is making the races turn on each other so that they can skate.
There are plenty of racists on all sides. You cannot let them determine the narrative or it is one more nail in all our coffins.
Black Magician,
You seem to be every bit as articulate as most people posting here. While that might be taken as an insult or as a compliment, I meant it as compliment.
I am definitely one of the people you seem to be upset with in your post and all I can say is, if more black people were perceived as being as articulate and open to verbal argument as you are, I thinks race relations in this county would improve 100% overnight.
It has nothing to do with color. It has everything to with the ape like behavior exhibited by all men to a greater or lesser degree. This is what rubs people the wrong way and drives traffic here and at drudge.
Rightly or wrongly, (Rightly in my opinion) the media seems to be portraying blacks as much more likely than average to engage in uncivilized behavior, from being rude in public to outright violence, whther that be theft, damage to personal property, beatings or murder.
The way to change people's opinions (I think) is to do what you are doing, which is to engage on zerohedge and take your down votes like a man.
If we can't agree on anything else, I can at least admire you for having the balls to post here.
The giant wedge that is driving races apart is the constant excuses being made for bad behavior. When white people act badly, they are condemned as antisocial misfits and criminals. When Blacks do the same we hear nothing but excuses for WHY they behave badly, WHY they deserve special considerations. How It is ALL due to racist whites. How their criminality is from a poor education, that in many cases is completely driven by people of color and financially supported well in excess of comparable whites.
When blacks want to be treated as equals they are going to have to accept being treated as equals.
When we are told we cannot criticize what is largely considered a failed president as it is expressing racism, blacks have never been more fucked.
Ya... maybe the Blacks cannot do maths. But the whites seem never to understand economics.
Blacks did not have technology or anything. But they are now living very well in America far from the hot and desolute Africa. How did they travel so far? And how are they living now?
They also get easy money from so called hardworking tax paying whites.
So, who actually is the smarter one heh?
Whites did not invent technology. It was mostly Jews like Newton, Einstein, Bill Gates etc. Whites get the name only because Jews are hiding behind whites for now.
Soon, all technology will be "invented" by Chinese because, Jews are moving behind the Chinese.
So, pipe down a bit ok?
"...man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons." - Douglas Adams
actually, i think they are a bit confused. When you get them mad they take it out on you by burning down their own houses. I don't think even the genius Nash could have formulated game rules for that; unless he figured out a way to divide by zero.
machines do not require healthcare, payroll, unemployment insurance, pensions, family leave, sick days, show up to work on time, never have attitudes, and don't argue with the boss or customers, don't form unions (yet), no bathroom breaks and their hands are always clean (screen may need a cleaning now and then). They also stay out of the till.
It's not a total loss for jobs, it has now created semi-skilled jobs to maintain and fix these systems which will probably pay $15/hr...
Would you rather stand in a line, or a curve?
It depends, I've seen the phenomena where people will take it upon themselves to form a single line even though the sign says form lines behind registers...
The herd mentality is prevalent and given this new ordering style, they will stand in one long line and wait to be called which means they'll never be served.
As an Engineer I love automation.
They installed one of these auto checkouts in my company cafeteria. At first I was the only one using it, but then as folks would see me sail through the checkout in 30 seconds more and more folks started using the auto checkout. Now they have 2.
I can just as easily click an Icon of a burger, fries or chicken pot pie, swipe, print & leave as any clerk.
This concept won't be around long unless prices are reduced.
Actually, it's been around for a few years now, and works quite well at the local Home Depot and grocery store I frequent.
I can either stand in a queue behind 3 other customers who want to argue over coupons/specials and want to take 5 minutes to write a stinkin' check, and be waited-on by a high school dropout who can't make change; or I can checkout myself in about 30 seconds and be outta there...
Wrong. My neighbor works as a corporate goon for Home Depot. They are having huge loses due to thef due to these chck outs. Theives have it down to a science. Often the cashier people are in on the take. He told me how a Home Depot in Oklahoma lost $150,000 in one quarter in 2014 in electrical parts (breakers especially). Product is just flying out of the stores and their shrink has increased 3 times what it used to be. Target tried this a few years ago in Oregon and Washington state and it was a disaster. One district lost over $65,000 in stolen Lego toys in just three months with phoney bar codes placed over the box bar code and self scanned. Many chains are considering abandonding these check out means do to high loses.
Stores are now testing a new check out tunnel system that seems to work well in grocery stores and stop loses, but is very relient on cashiers and bag boys as it speeds up check outs 200%.
I didn't say it worked well for Home Depot; just that it worked well for me.
btw, sounds like the loss you're describing isn't due to the machines, but due to the human employees....
Self check outs have come and gone here. There is no way to stop the theft w/o at least one clerk to keep watch nearby. There's a limit to how many they can monitor.
Argue? All I ever seem to get behind are the ignorant pieces of goof shit who use the cashier as personal gophers, too fucking lazy, stoopid and self entitled to actually find a clerk on the floor and get everything they need before they go clog up the til.
And every time I use the self serve checkout, the stoopid flashing light comes on that says wait for cashier...can't win except by not playing!
sooo punch a few buttons out pops the food. Now that's what I call "Shit from a Chute".
straight from the ass of corporate america
I am a Subway franchisee. Subway and every other food chain is rolling out their own ordering app that eliminates any hardware costs on our part. Plus your app remembers what you like and with two clicks you can select and pay and your order will be ready when you get there. THAT is the labor killer.
Can I get my philly cheese steak with flip flop plastic in it?
Hopefully I will be able to pre-order with my Apple iWatch. I will love flashing this marvel of technology in front of the peons working there.
Are you next in line?
Have to wonder where people will be working in ten years as this picks up. In the past progress would lead to job loses but it would be replaced with something else. I guees maybe in the future there's somewhere to shift people to but right now it's looking rather dreary for many workers. In ten years we could end up with no truckers, taxi drivers and many other jobs no longer being around.
That will be the point at which the masses, with absolutely NOTHING left to lose, decide to collectively start burning down corporate america and courthouses both. The war with the murders in blue will get real at that point. At which point the fuckers in blue will begin to see that all the tanks and armor in the world doesn't help when you are living in the same hell hole with the ones you are murdering. The French revolution teaches us what happens when the common folk have absolutely nothing left to lose.
When the totally disenfranchised include a significant portion of Anglos, you got trouble. Anglos don't burn their own houses down, they go after the aggressors. History shows that nation after nation has fallen. All governments get overthrown when the downtrodden have had enough. Does anyone know of any single time in history, when downtrodden and fed up Anglos did not successfully overthrow the ruling tyrant?
Makes me think of someone during the industrial revolution asking "where will people get food in ten years if they aren't farming anymore?" when they were all leaving the farms for some new concept known as a "job".
In ten (or however many) years, there may not be any jobs, and that will be a good thing. Robots make everything, and robots have vanishingly small human labor components, so everything is free, in terms of human labor. The people will do what they want to, whether that is socializing, taking up hobbies, studying, travelling, or exploring.
Jajajaja...you're a hoot, that's funny! ...sorry I missed your <SARCASM> tags. Hobbies, studying, travelling...jajaja. You crack me up! Sheeple will watch even more TV, wear their fingers off TXTing, eat to higher levels of obesity, drink more booze, snort more meth and watch more porn....why? Cuz they will have all that time on their hands and all the above will be either tolerated or outright subsidized to keep the Sheeple from revolting...the 1% of 1% will soon figure it how much all this cost and right the checks....Soylent Green Bitches!
That's why we needed Obamacare, so we wouldn't have to work anymore. Didn't you get the "utopia coming soon" notice?
Stuff will never be free. We have a consumer economy because they need us to buy things, not eat a free lunch. The only way the consumer can eat for free is if he OWNS the technology that produces it. That's not happening. Most can barely operate their phone and nobody is "investing" in anything but stock, most of which pays no dividend and even if it did, free means no profit to share and as far as I know stock in GM does not entitle you to a new car. Even a demand the government nationalize all business in order for citizens to share in their bounty, does anyone really think a government owned enterprise will have any real bounty? Will we all be owners of Amtrack?
Free?
Yes technology makes things cheaper, but just those things we don't need. Price is set by demand, not just cost. If relatively few own the means of production, they can determine supply and set the price. Think diamonds. Government is supposed to prevent monopolies but actually is the single largest enabler of them. They just monopolized healthcare.
I can't believe $15/hr is being seriously considered and has already been voted in favor of in several cities here in CA. Do these fucking people not realize that the end result will be a substantial cut on head count at businesses, an extinction of full-time employment, price increases at grocery stores, no more dollar menus, the rise of Skynet as you see in the picture above, AND that you will not be able to receive all those posh government handouts because now you make "too much" money. Also, that $1/month health insurance just jumped up to $200+/mo because you're making more money.
These bastards' argument is they need a higher minimum wage to support their kids. Well, if you're making $15/hr now, your welfare payout is cut to pennies (or just denied period) and you'll end up sruggling even more because you're actually making less than sucking on the government's erect lactating nipple like a hamster in its cage with the water drip -- and you actually have to "work" to earn this money unlike that tit.
Can somebody please help me see the light, and tell me how this will NOT be the end result?
I dont think you understand. Say Mcdonalds has can pay 20 employees pre-communism, they will only have 10 after. That means those ten who continue to work will be the folks stupid enough to bust their asses for 20 people's share of work (while eliminating themselves from welfare eligibility) so the other 10 can coast on mom & uncle sam's couch. Workers appear to 'earn' more and then the cash is simply transfered to nonworkers. Its win-win!
Exactly.
The minimum wage is just that: a "Minimum" wage. It was always intended for entry-level workers and students working their way through high school or college.
If you're only making minimum wage (with no reasonable prospect of advancing into more lucrative work), you shouldnt be having kids...
It is becuase of idiots like you that world is moving into Chaos.
So, you think you have rights to children because you were lucky enough to get education or you were too smart to get educated?
Your economy and high paying jobs are created out of hardworking low educated people. If those Latinos are not willing to plucking fruits, and farming, you will not be eating too even if you have newly printed dollars.
If you keep pushing this nice people who are willing to work hard, they will retaliate sooner or later. That time is coming and you guys still have not waken up.
The wage is not enough and your solution is ... dont have children.
What a moron...
Those of us who are old enough to remember the pre-NAFTA world, can recall what things were like before the 'entitlement generation' began demanding everything.
I worked one of those 'dirty' jobs: sweeping floors and cleaning toilets for $2.65/hour. Did I expect to survive and raise a family on that wage? Of course not! It merely allowed me to save for college. I then got a job assembling transformers for $3.50/hour. I used that job as a stepping-stone to get a drafting job that paid $5.00/hour. I worked by day and went to college at night. At $5.00/hour could I have raised a family? Again, of course not! (It was barely enough to cover college). But then I finished college in a technical field and (after working my up over about ten years) finally arrived at a position paying a whopping $50,000 a year. NOW I was ready to start a family.
It has been over-regulation, social welfare programs, excessive taxes, and offshoring of jobs that has destroyed the labor market in America. The 'old' free-enterprise system worked fine - until the progressives and central bankers destroyed it...
"what things were like before the 'entitlement generation' began demanding everything."
Theres not a lot of living people who are old enough to remember the world before the Boomers wrote themselves entitlement checks.
There are far more of us than you think...
Reply to add a little substance. I disagree with both of you.
You cant simply increase minimum wage by 100% and expect anything but an economic butfucking. You also cant drive an economy into the ground and expect people to work for under a living wage. Noone cares what nominal figure you worked for. Quote that to me in gallons of milk/hr (or homes, cars, meaningful education, energy, food). I know a couple of STEM grads working for two gallons of milk an hour. That was illegal back in your day.
A single variable solution wont fix anything, stop thinking like the fed.
Edit: also, I thought you were calling X/Y the entitlement generation with the reference to NAFTA so my hostility was unwarranted. My bad. Its unusual for folks to point the finger at the leaders during an era (vs the youth).