This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Greek "Anti-Austerity" Wave Spreads In Dramatic Loss For Spanish Status Quo
Last week in “Portugal’s Left Wing Forces Threaten Troika Revolt,” we highlighted the country’s Socialist Party which is enjoying a lead in the polls ahead of elections expected in October and which has pledged to implement a “reverse policy” as it relates to austerity and the country’s creditors. We argued that the ascendancy of left-wing political parties across the periphery means Europe will take an increasingly hard-line stance in negotiations with Greece. Here’s how put it:
The reason why concessions (any concessions) to the Greeks are a non-starter in Athens' negotiations with creditors is that the IMF, the European Commission, and most especially Germany, want to send a clear message to any other 'leftist radicals' who may be thinking about using the "one move and the idea of EMU indissolubility gets it" routine as a way to negotiate for breathing room on austerity pledges, will get exactly nowhere and will have a very unpleasant time on the way.
With just 10 days until a June 5 IMF payment that Athens almost certainly will not make unless it strikes a deal for the disbursement of more bailout funds, things just got quite a bit more interesting on the political front after Spain’s Popular Party was dealt a dramatic electoral blow on Sunday by the leftist Podemos and center-right Ciudadanos. WSJ has more:
Spanish voters punished the governing Popular Party in regional and municipal elections, throwing significant support to two upstart parties that capitalized on anger over high unemployment, cuts in public spending and corruption.
Near-complete returns showed that Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy’s conservative party was assured of retaining control of only three of the 13 regions that elected parliaments Sunday. That is a reversal of the party’s dominance in 2011, when it won in 10 regions, eight with absolute majorities.
Although it gathered the most votes nationwide, the Popular Party could be hard-pressed to form functional governments in many former strongholds, including the city of Madrid, without support from smaller parties.
“It’s a brutal wake-up call from Spanish society to a party that has enjoyed a hegemony in parts of this country,” said Emilio Sáenz-Francés, professor of history and international relations at Comillas Pontifical University in Madrid.
He said the vote would usher in a new era in Spanish politics, obliging humbled establishment parties to resort to horse-trading and coalition-building with rivals to ensure governability.
In a possible foretaste of national balloting late this year, in which Mr. Rajoy is seeking a second term, his party’s share of the nationwide vote fell 10 percentage points from its 37% in local and regional elections four years ago. Voters moved to two upstart parties,the leftist Podemos and the center-right Ciudadanos.
In Barcelona, the anti-poverty, anti-eviction activist Ada Colau (who leads Barcelona En Comú) was elected mayor in what she called a victory “for David over Goliath,” and the PP also appeared weak in Madrid.
Via The Guardian:
A grassroots movement of several leftist political parties, including Podemos, and thousands of citizens, Barcelona En Comú vowed to return decision-making in the city to the people, promising to do away with home evictions, increase public housing and redistribute the city’s wealth. Colau’s party won 11 of the 41 seatson the city council, meaning that she will need to form alliances in order to govern.
In Madrid, the People’s party is not certain of hanging on to power in a city where it has dominated for two decades.
The PP candidate, Esperanza Aguirre, 63, who is a countess by marriage, squeaked ahead in Sunday’s vote, winning 21 council seats in the city.
Aguirre is seen as a hard case but she got a run for her money from “indignada” candidate Manuela Carmena, whose Podemos-backed coalition Ahora Madrid came a close second.
The results suggest that coalition building will now begin, a process that will likely be complicated by the fact that some voters could feel betrayed were Podemos or Ciudadanos to cooperate with their rivals.
Here’s The NY Times summing things up…
The elections, however, failed to produce the kind of clear-cut winner of four years ago, when the conservative Popular Party swept to power as voters punished the Socialists for sinking Spain into an economic crisis. Instead, Sunday’s vote is likely to be followed by tense coalition-building negotiations in Madrid as well as across much of the rest of Spain.
The elections were seen as a bellwether for the governing Popular Party and Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy’s own chances of winning general elections later this year.
While the Popular Party won the most votes, according to preliminary results, it was set to lose its parliamentary majorities in most, if not all, of the country’s provinces. That setback raises the likelihood that left-leaning parties will join forces in the coming weeks to remove the Popular Party and form coalition governments.
...and Barclays has some color on coalition building…
We think that neither of the two new parties, Podemos and Ciudadanos, will be keen on coalitions with either PP or PSOE in the near term. As argued above, these parties could be penalized by voters if they do form coalitions and find compromises ahead of the general elections to be held in the autumn. Moreover, both parties have been running on strong manifestos against corruption, therefore they are likely to set very strong red lines on these issues in order to be willing to give their support to any of the two traditional parties. However, a key difference between the new parties is that Ciudadanos may be relatively more likely to form coalitions with either PP or PSOE, as its policy agenda may be closer to the traditional parties relative to Podemos. Instead, Podemos is highly unlikely to form coalitions with the conservative PP…
The most important take away of this weekend’s regional and municipal elections in Spain (24 May) is what we will learn in the coming days/weeks from the behaviour of the four main parties (PP, PSOE, Podemos and Ciudadanos), as the results delivered few absolute majorities. These four parties will have to engage in complex coalition talks. Podemos and Ciudadanos may set ‘red-lines’ when they engage with PP and PSOE. In fact, in some cases they may choose to let minority governments be in charge, as coalitions could carry a high political cost for junior coalition partners ahead of the general elections in Nov/Dec 2015 (no specific date set yet).
The results indicate that patience for 25% unemployment and austerity is wearing rather thin. We imagine there will be quite a few closed door discussions between the 'institutions' as it now appears exceedingly likely that Spain will pursue a mandate that mirrors the election promises which helped Syriza sweep to power in Greece earlier this year.
This will make it more difficult for Greece to win concessions at the negotiating table as the troika will want to be extremely careful about what kind of message they're sending to the currency bloc's other "ascendant socilaists."
As a reminder, here is what 'austerity' looks like in a heavily-indebted EU periphery nation:
»
- 43914 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
ugh at this point it looks like europe is going to politically become latin america
Game of chicken and a pissing contest. All at the same time.
Although "...Rajoy’s conservative party was assured of retaining control of only three of the 13 regions...it gathered the most votes nationwide."
Nope. Nothing wrong here.
It's just short term debt and the ECB probably bought most of it.
Roll roll row your debt gently down the steam ....
Life is but a dream
I'll let the truth do the talking...
http://www.nwaonline.com/news/2015/may/23/spain-s-jewish-citizenship-law...
Spain, Portugal, Italy and Ireland are all in trouble, and all of them would take the EU down. I see two EU's coming, north and south and totally confused....
Does anyone besides Germany and the Swiss work in Europe? I spent a work-study thingy in Italy one time and must admit; I neither worked nor studied.
It was always time for rest or lunch or dinner ... or too hot or time for an espresso or "How about a glass of vino?" Then, everyone took off 'to prepare for the Harvest Festival' [which WAS great!]. That lasted for a week when the entire village stopped everything except dancing, drinking and sleeping.
After the festival, again, no one worked claiming, "we're all recovering from the festival."
It was the best 'work/study' program I ever had and the village mayor gave me an A+ for my univeristy class.
North vs South, Keywest vs NYC.....
Whats wrong with that?
I lived and worked in Germany and a couple of years ago moved to the South of Europe. Would never go back, even if we had to wipe our asses on stones again.
Maybe we should just stop measuring "success" or "life quality" in terms of GDP? I don't need or even care about a Mercedes or an iphone. I can sit on the beach, go fishing and be self-reliant. I have not ONCE, EVER ask for any government help, subsidaries or any shit-hand out. Would rather die of hunger.
Also: FUCK SWITZERLAND. Arrogant cunts.
(Talking based on previous work experience with them!)
Let the red down voting start...I don't care.
I'm not sure exactly how many native Eye-Talians are left in Italy; MENA peeples now dominate the landscape there.
What's reall sad for all these anti-austerity people in all these indebted countries is that there is no way out. You can make choices which are not founded in reality but the outcomes you must live with are always rooted in reality. When you follow sociopaths who give you free shit and lie and make promises they can't keep, well someday the shit is going to hit the fan and its all going to fall apart. Nothing is ever free...nothing.
Only slaves have to work
Wolfer fits perfect into that category .... brainwashed to perfection
For when the NEURO (Northern Euro) !
It's called a Parliamentary system. Can you say that, MVSJCL? Par-la-men-tary-eee! Good!
That means, unlike in the Murikan system where you have just two "parties" that have been around for ever (like genital warts or athlete's foot) and that split the "spoils" down the middle, in MOST countries around the world (backwards countries like Finland, UK, Ireland, México, Chile, Germany, Spain, Switzerland, etc.) one finds more than two parties and they are DIFFERENT in their platforms. (In Murika you have to look at the colour of the tie the men are wearing to know the difference between the Elephants and the Asses). You see, MVSJCL, in Spain, the voters got tired of the "old" parties and formed several new parties (PODEMOS = "We Can"; CIUDADANOS = "Citizens") that did very well. In Muria, that kind of behaviour will get your political ass in a wringer real fast: ask Dr. Ron Paul for example!
So, MVSJCL, the way it works in these "foreign places" is the WHOLE of the electorate is split in to MORE THAN TWO PIECES! Wow! And, you know what dude (or dudette, as the case may be), a LOT MORE people vote in these "backward" places because they feel like they really have a choice between parties, instead of just a choice between colours of neckties! That's how Rajoy (who isn't feeling a whole lot of Rah or Joy this morning) got a lot of votes but didn't WIN IT ALL like we do here in Murika.
Now, MVSJCL, take out your box of crayons, and on your paper you will find a big round circle. Take out FOUR different-coloured crayons (you can use either end) and colour in the circle with FOUR different colours.
That is your Popular Will of the Voters Circle. We don't have those in Murika.
"With the Republicans and the Democrats, it's like Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb. There's not a dim'es worth of difference between the two of them!"
–––George C. Wallace (1968), erstwhile Third Party Presidential candidate, governor and First Gentleman of Alabama, inveterate racist who recanted in his later years.
+++ - Well and accurately said my friend.
+++ - Well and accurately said my friend.
What are you talking about? We have a black man wearing a blue tie. That's a big deal!
Plus he's go a pen and phone.
It doesn't get any better than that.
So what? You can't choose to be free in a parliamentary system either.
So let me know when you evolve enough to stop forcing your political belief system on others.
Game of chicken and a pissing contest. All at the same time.
Only problem is the chickens got the flu and the wind is blowing. To many moving parts for me to understand hows this thing may play out.
As long as the politicians, govt workers, cops, military and govt worker pensioners get paid - it is kick the can time in every one of these countries.
The IMF knows they can buy them all off with more debt and their monthly pay check.
Not sure that's a bad thing.
eirik what have you done to correct the inequality??" more .gov bigger .gov", I expect is your answer.
Clearly Greece needs to lower the retirement age to 46.
Logan's Run here we come.
Just insert a cellphone for the hand chip.
46, that would be raising it, surely?
Yes, with bells on.
Income and wealth equality... who gets to decide who gets what and who is entrusted to use violence to achieve those ends?
Opportunity... now that is something we can agree upon. Equal opportunity will tend to level income and wealth on its own. It is too bad you've never had equal opportunity in Europe.
The response by the ignorant masses is usually the wrong one
The response by the ignorant, greedy bankers and their government sycophants is usually the wrong one.
So, Sun Tzu, WHO has the right answer?
Confusious say:
"He who wipes ass with hand ends up with stanky fingers."
I don't understand ZHers sometimes. You're aware of deep truths about how the world runs, yet at the slightest hint of revolt turn towards the vilest reactionary horseshit. Good, let them be more like Latin America, places like Ecuador and Bolivia, with governments ready to stand up for their people's dignity, human values and rights against the corporatist buzzards in Washington and Brussels.
Not me!
I just say a massive comet and super volcanoes are about to solve all our problems.
I don't feel like doing research but I'm pretty sure those governments, like most, don't stand for their people's dignity.
The results of voting in both Bolivia and Ecuador indicate that, after years of being run by Washington-controlled puppets and cartels dressed in military uniforms and expensive suits, the people increasingly feel like they have a stake in their governance. Neither government (Correa in Ecuador or Morales in BOlivia) is perfect and each would be the first to admit it, (Now THAT is Exceptionalism) but overall corruption is perceived as less and popular participation is up.
Now, Gentle Reader, were you to do some research, you would find that each of these South American republics is populated by majority-indigenous people who have deep, deep roots in their locales. They have thousands of years of culture (that means their towns and villages are older than the Mega-Mall down the freeway from your suburban ranch house) and hundreds of years of poor governance under the shadow of Spain and the U.S., to say nothing of their local élite. All of that poor governance is the foundation on which each is trying to build a better society. And yes, the rich and greedy will lose so that grinding poverty can be reduced.
What's wrong with that?
You are assuming that grinding poverty can be reduced by cutting the "rich and greedy" down to size. Policies like that have never worked out for those nation-states in the long term. Just ask the Soviets (Oops! Too late!) or the ChiComms. (Had to implement incremental capitalism to grow an advanced economy, and they are nevertheless on the verge of a debt-deflation spiral that will sink their economy.)
I was in Ecuador for several weeks in Jan-Feb 1994 after the end of my Navy career. I've seen the grinding poverty of which you speak, and now give precisely zero fucks for the American poor because of it. However, their poverty problem will not be solved by sticking it to so-called "rich and greedy." There is nothing intrinsically wrong by being rich, and nothing intrinsically wrong with wanting more wealth for yourself. In a truly free market, there is no such thing as a zero-sum game; the economic pie can be grown. The "little man's" small precentage of that pie CAN be worth more tomorrow than it is today. But that sure as shit isn't happening in socialist (read: quasi-communist) basketcases like Venezuela, and only treading water in Ecuador. (Thanks in part to Ecuador keeping the dollar as its national currency, whereas Venezuela dumped the dollar for the massively devaluing bolivar)
Going back to Ecuador this summer to visit my in-laws in Guayiquil, who are considered moderately wealthy even by American standards. Will be interesting to see how much has really changed in the 21 years since my last visit. My guess is, not as much as you'd have us believe.
I think that is so because writer seem to be able to differentiate between populism and reality. It's good you didn't mention Venezuela in the same breath because usually that's what comes hand in hand with Bolivia and Ecuador. It's good for governments to stand up against 'corporatist buzzards' but having them replaced with left leaning ideologists that want to distribute wealth that isn't there won't help either. It's nice to make bold predictions of what you are going to redistribute when you are in power but at least in the case of Latin America lef leaning governments have not been the blessing they promised to be (Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela....)
Problem is the average ZHer strongly believes in austerity and government shrinkage. When a chart is included in an article that shows exactly what happens to debt when austerity is implemented obviously you will have backlash.
The problem is that the Spanish version of austerity doesn't match up with ZHers ideas of what austerity should be. The average ZHer doesn't think that austerity implies spending more money to socialize bank losses or build unused airports in the middle of nowhere or building more submarines that won't float. ZHers generally believe in a free market that implies rational actors with adequate information, and I don't think anyone sees the Spanish government as acting rationally or in a manner that seems informed. I suspect that if a ZHer instead of Rajoy were leading Spain, we'd see a refusal to bail out banks or other businesses, a strong reduction in military spending, and major structural reforms via cutting bureaucracy (Jesus, have you ever seen Spanish bulletins and paperwork?) and changing labor laws to reduce union influence, to let the costs of labor work themselves out.
More debt for what? How has the money been spent? The people got shafted with austerity that much is for certain 100% guaranteed. But who was on the receiving end of the higher debt load?
But who was on the receiving end of the higher debt load? The banks of course!!! The bailed-out banks. And that exactly is the key core of all our problems. What do we need those stupid institutions called banks for anyway? They are good absolutely for nothing. And where has the money gone??? Ask the bankers, they were those entrusted with the money. You can see very well that the so-called QE is not working, because the money does not go into the circulation. Thats why most of the EU is in deflation now. So you have the situation, where money is printed liek crazy, but that money does not go, where it should- into the circulation - it goes only to the rich, who do not spend it, to stock markets etc. And that is why instead of inflation (which would be normally caused by too much money printing), you have deflation. We live in a crazy world, because all the rules are decided by bankers.
The game is crooked. Only TPTB can win.
Unfortunately nothing short of violent overthrow is going to change anything.
Sadly that probably won't either.
True.
What is happening in Spain is just the evidence that THERE IS NO DEMOCRACY in many Europe countries.
Not the case in US and UK, where there is TRUE REPRESENTATION, as people vote for their CIVIL representatives, not from a list of people made by the party's leader, political parties that are STATE PARTIES, thus represent the party. The same election resolves the three powers (remember, an election from state parties)
Furthermore, there is some degree of separation of power in those anglo-saxon countries, and in many northern european ones. In Spain, Rajoy has the legislative power, the executive power and his party chooses the judges that would judge them in case of any conflict.
NO ONE in Spain is talking about representation (Parliamentarism) or separation of power (Democracy). One side (right) talks about rising taxes for paying our "debts" and the other side (left) talks about rising taxes for paying our "social rights". Simple minds are only trying to keep their taxes at home, that at least is smart in the short run.
Add this to the fact that every Euro country is involved in a pure ponzi scheme regarding to his pension funds and currency administration.
Everithing is gonna be all right. Watch how member STATE PARTIES and EU STATE PARTIES representatives draw red lines marking which part of the cake belong to them. For us in Spain, it's 1931 again. Well done.
People without bravery for self-gobernance will have got what they take. Populism.
The financial mess most of these countries are experiencing are from Socialist ideals. It is a bit ironic they will be criticizing a systemic problem they mostly created. I wonder who or what the Socialists will point the finger at for all their woes.
Well, we have HARD evidence that Jarana is smoking crack (or started out with sarcasm and lost the thread half way through the comment):::
"Not the case in US and UK, where there is TRUE REPRESENTATION, as people vote for their CIVIL representatives, not from a list of people made by the party's leader, political parties that are STATE PARTIES, thus represent the party."
TRUE REPRESENTATION? Dianne Feinstein? Sen Menendez? Rep Hank Johnson ("Guam Will Tip Over")? Rep Aaron "Buffed Abs" Schock? Rep. Michelle Backmann? Jeff Sessions and Lindsay "Jowls" Graham?
This was sarcasm right?
The Repubs and the Democrats are NOT "State Parties"? The "candidates" (remember 95%+ are automatically reëlected each cycle in safe, gerrymandered districts) are NOT picked by part leaders?
So what is it? Sarcasm or Crack?
Just because the reps you listed don't represent YOUR point-of-view doesn't mean that they don't represent the POV of THEIR electorate.
I was in SC during the 2014 election. I campaigned hard for one of the Tea Party alternatives to Lindsay "Closet Queer" Grahamnesty in the GOP primary. Of course, there was the problem that there were FOUR such alternatives that split the anti-Lindsay support amongst them, so no real opposition was able to coalesce.
Even if the anti-Lindsay faction had been able to gel, Graham had pretty much the unassailable support of the majority of the state electorate. While I disagreed strongly with the result, how is it, again, that Graham does not represent the majority faction of the SC electorate that sent him back to the Senate?
Bottom like: The American electorate in general has no clue what the fuck it is doing when it votes. But if anyone is smoking crack in this thread, it is YOU if you think that Feinstein, Menedez, et al, are not representing the fucktards that put them into office. Their electorate demands more free shit from an ever expanding .gov, and they are only too happy to oblige.
Many ZHers live in a fantasy world. They rail against things they can't affect rather than worry about taking care of themselves and forgetting that which cannot be controlled.
They think a stash of gold will save them when everything collapses (it can't as its value would be low) but have no contingency plan for the likely scenario that we will muddle through without a complete collapse.
Some people make things happen, some people watch things happen.
To survive you must make things happen, but thinking you are going to save the world from imaginary evil supermen is a waste of time that leads nowhere.
Defaults have happened before and will happen again. Greece defaulted in 1824, 1843, 1860, 1893 and 1932 and is currently is riding its longest streak without a default in the modern era. So it's due.
Perfectly said! Your comment is Golden.
Look at a chart of Argentinien debt and you will see: they reset once in a while. Whilst they do not have perfect conditions right now, at least their debt levels are pretty low and so is their dependence from IMF scum.
No, they just need some balls....repo Crete, or cut off all the Southern Europe laggards with a "Euro B" currency for them and "Euro A" for the northern responsible nations.
Hahaha ! He said "responsible nations" ????
Gazzman,
The same message Pope Francis is scaling as Argentina fuck puppet master. This is getting interesting.
Let's hope they kick ass just like Syriza did. hahaha
you forgot the sarc
presently Syriza can't tell their asses from their elbows (last vote among party against entering default...)
good intentions don't count
Mind you these are local and regional elections. In Spain everything is highly centralized and there's little you can do without the approval of the central government, which is still in the hands of PP.
That being said, some of these new parties do have some interesting ideas. The new mayor of Barcelona, for instance, plans to introduce a new currency only for the city. The plan will be struck down by the central government as inconstitutional, of course, but at least it willl wake up some people.
"Oh, it is party X that is full of scum bags. Party Y will fix everything". "Party X and Y were scumbags and now party A & B are going to fix everything."
We will know when we have progressed to higher level of intelligence, when the average citizen starts saying, "We tried government in all forms and it simply does not work. We are working now to disassemble all levels of government."
Bloods and Crips. Gang mentality. Your average NFL or soccer viewer essentially.
An ignorant voting society is a dangerous society, we must change, we must educate to survive, a full scale war on ignorance.
The truth is there is not enough. You can't tell that to the voters. They will not elect you.
We need to teach "recognizing and knowing the truth" classes to our young. The earlier the better. They know, are open to, truth first before they are corrupted.
We must return to the voting methodology and process of the founders of the America.
You touched a nice topic there. Let's talk about ignorance.
In Portugal, their former Prime Minister José Socrates finished his ilustrous political career and ended up living in a Paris apartment with 20 million Euros in his account. I will spare you the details how he became rich (it's uninteressant, he did it like the other scammers/politicians out there). Anyway, long story short: back in December 2014 he was arrested and also some of his buddies and is currently under investigation, awaiting trial.
This weekend a big group of fans (voters) went outside the prison to manifest for him! You should have heard how they answered the reporter as to why they are doing this! It is mind boggling to say the least! One old guy even said that even if it is true that he stole all that money, he shouldn't be in prison that it is a shame to have a former minister in prison.
From here it is all downwards. I guess, every population deserves what they voted for...
Image of the manifestation: http://www.lojadasrevistas.pt/19ef7a98-523f-48ff-9aac-417bd8c9e6d4.file
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
Lisbon: "the Spanish Malta."
The Urban Legend is that in the State of Utah, when the State was to execute you, the condemned got to choose whether he wanted to be SHOT or HANGED. (One comdemned, so it is said, wanted to know which cost the State more; that was his choice.)
Elections: Shot or Hanged.
"With the Republicans and the Democrats it is like Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb. There's not a dime's worth of difference between the two of them."
–––George C. Wallace, 1968.
Bring back the inquisition Spain, but just on Sundays for bankers.
Blackstone's rental apartments have been squeezing the people all over Madrid and beyond - they will impose rent control - this local govenment control designed to fuck the yankee dollar
coming soon!
whoever they get will instantly be corrupted
The Germans don't want to concede anything to the Greeks in case the Spanish follow suit.
More importantly however, the Germans and the EU are stuffed if both Spain and Greece show their middle finger to Germany.
Who will blink first will be most interesting.
Catch 22 is the order of the day.
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/greece-government-reforms-by...
the greek government will not back down
Hey Greece, shit can the euro, tell them to fuck off, and get to printing your own fiat...fast!
No need to let the banksters have all the fun, while feeding on your carcass!
Yet more fuel for the "out" campaign in the UK, in the run-up to 2017.
After 7 years of a depression I wouldn't call this "dramatic".
They are not in a depression.
Spain had unprofitable businesses wiped out, government spending pared back, and their asset bubble deflated. Essentially, the economy reverted to the mean.
Now, if you are looking to have Spain re-enter the real estate bubble, over leveraged, etc. Then I think your definition of "growth" and "depression" will truly diverge.
All of these "anti" austerity parties want the same shit... Turn the govertment spending back on and shower the people with handouts. This is not to state that the these were ever completely shut off. These indebted nations are populated by "The Free Shit Army" and their legions are growing.
Yeah 50% youth unemployment is the mean.
It sure is the mean when you eliminate govt as the primary employer.
Govt's of PIGS bought the vote for so long by providing needless roles in govt and promising all sorts of gravy to these same people.
Govt's role is not to employ people. Keep in mind that the govt controls so many parts of the economy that the anti-austerity people (the Free Shit Army as I call them) are essentially demanding that "austerity" ends so the govt and continue to bloat the payrolls of the state industries.
Note that the anti-austerity parties don't want to lower taxes and enable the private sector to possibly grow... They want govt to grow.
Employment taxes are at 50% in Spain, Italy, Portugal, etc. plus the employer matching. A large % of motivated 25 to 35 year old citizens of the PIGS left for Germany, Luxembourg, Switzerland, and the UK a long time ago.
Your last statement is 100% true. We have many fine young Spaniards throughout the UK. Lovely people and adding value in my opinion.
The short answer is, collectivism kills innovation and the animals spirits of commerce, leading to stagnation and a zoned out populace forever crying out for more distributions from a government with less treasure available each year to provide subsistence.
Capitalism has been polluted with socialism, causing the current problems.
America is still the best place with the best system, but that system requires hard work to advance, which is why so many hate it.
Everyone here hates bankers. Bankers made me wealthy. Banks are just tools like a gun or a hammer.
But sitting around bitching and making up fantasies is so easy, and work is so hard and requires a long-term committment. Fuck that.
America the best place? I disagree. With 0.2 GDP print last quarter, how is America somehow the best place? America isn't that much better than Europe, maybe better than Greece and Spain, but that's because they are all full blown socialist who believe government will give them bread and butter, and take care of them. Full blown as in, hardcore socialist. In America, it's not as hardcore, but still prevalent. Bunk monetary policy, and too many regulations.
Europe's main problem is structurally. Europeans don't want to cut the labor laws, and large government, so Mario Draghi has to work to try to sustain this quagmire via bond repurchases. Mario Draghi is simply following the failures of the politicians to make honest cuts and free up the economy. They have a strong socialist mentality, or they believe government should be a permanent fixture to give various assistance. US isn't that far behind at all.
European socialism doesn't have a long term future any more than the Soviet system and European countries are starting to act like they realize it. To wit, the former ruling socialist party was noticeably, and surprisingly, not a factor in the Spain election.
The people seem to be realizing that 'anti-austerity' is boiling down to who is going to pay for all the massive debt. The banks or the people? The quasi-governmental Troika makes out like it is a fait accompli that the public is going to take it in the ass. The people are not buying that crap anymore.
Well if the banks have to pay for it, they won't lend to Spain no more, then nobody pays for it. Time to move out of the EU and try to pay for everything with inflation with Spanish money.
And yet, ironically enough, the USSA has only TWO political parties. Where is the Libertarian party? No grassroots protest in the streets? Or is blogging enough?
So much for "Freedom of Expression", where the political interests of different groups are openly represented.
USSA -- the best freedumb, crony capitalism and fascism that (bankster & oligarch) paper money can buy.
The Greeks and Spaniards may not be armed (to the teeth) like 'Mericans are, but at least they got more than chicken balls, to be protesting in the streets.
Hear hear!
Getting an American to get off their ass, log off from a screen and do something about the parlous state of their nation is impossible, as the last 7 years so ably demonstrate.
As long as there is a chance for any of them to get a slice of the pie, no matter how small, it won't change. Always looking for an edge is not a lifestyle worth aspiring to - you have to starve the beast to get change, and there aren't enough willing to do that and give up their "edge". Sad really that greed, narcissism and entitlement are so endemic in America.
The US lame stream media is much more controlled than in Europe.
Hey Spain! Votes and promises won't pay the bills, ask Greece. (probably don't work in your homes either???) But hey, it's your country to trash.
Yeah Spain, listen to two hoots and bend over, pronto!
Well elvy, what would you recommend for Spain?
Tell the bankers to go fuck themselves and start over like Iceland did.
Bullseye!
Nothing new under the sun: Socialists want more free shit given to them so that others can pay for it. When there no longer is anybody left who has wealth to steal, then Houston you got a problem.
www.traderzoo.mobi
Life, as most want it, is broken beyond repair.
Vote for me and I'll give you lots of free stuff......
There is not a nation on the earth that cannot support all people with the basic necessities of life and at the same time provide some type of work that needs to be done. Most people, not all, but most would rather "do something" than to just take a hand-out. Work gives people a sense of purpose regardless of the work. Also, if society would value all contributions made by individuals rather than basing one value as a human on money, then that society would prosper. Women need to be celebrated as "home-makers" and embrace the noble and difficult task of raising the next generation; something that is lost for the most part and societies are the poorer for it; has anyone noticed? Much more could be said, but it is safe to say that man has an inherit flaw when family is demonized in favor of perversions and single-"mom" families while fathers are replaced by the state.
high crimes across the finance structures .. remember we are talking about crimes committed in public view (hank paulson's give me the money and do not dare ask me what i do with it & the use of public debt as a weapon is what I mean. forex fixing and the fiat money machine some how giving fiat money to the biggest banksters and corps. (city of london)
to then ignore the above and blame the common man for wanting what his betters have been taking (by the right of kings it seems), becomes illogical and unjust.
the results of fiat money systems are that there are no moral standards for anyone, we have been afloat in a sea of crime, and some here think justice should be applied to those at the lowest rung (austerity for some).
open your eyes wide shut. the concentration of wealth is because of the failure of government, laws and legal systems run for oligarchs ..justice is what fiat has killed.
you dont get it!!!!
massive die off coming to reduce the world popualtion from 7 Billion to less than 3 Billion - jobs / SS / medicare / Medicaid / drug prices / rents of all kinds / utilities / all designed to affect the sustainability of the population everywhere
the end game is in motion - the TPP will affect loss of Soveignty so no local control anywhere for any rules, regualtion or law
GMO's - In 2001, Monsanto and Du Pont bought a small biotech company called Epicyte that had created a gene that basically makes the male sperm sterile and the female egg unreceptive
Our current society won't value such work, as they haven't been able to monetize it.
If Wall Street could find a way to skim the value of a housewife/stay-at-home-Mom, that position would pay, and pay WELL.
But because they can't, Mom gets to 'volunteer'.
Have you noticed that all these jobs that are SO needed, SO necessary, and yet so impossible for third parties to profit from end up becoming "volunteer" positions? With lip-service being paid to the "nobility" of that hard-working volunteer army, but not a nickel of real-world compensation...
Hell, even if you allowed a family to deduct the amount that Mom would be paid if she did the same work for someone else off their taxes, it would be something...
Or if someone who stays home to care for an elderly or sick family member could be allowed to deduct the amount it would have cost to hire someone instead...after all, this work DOES have value. We can see that in the nursing home industry which is largely run by for-profit outfits, they wouldn't be interested if there wasn't money to be made.
And those large outfits get plenty of subsidies in various forms...why not just give those subsidies to those folks who volunteer for these jobs, often leaving paying positions to do so? Because those volunteers are mostly family members (who else would volunteer to care for Granny?) and we seem to think they should never be compensated for that. Yet we have no problem with some total stranger coming along and warehousing Granny in some nursing home and making a killing off her...that's Capitalism!
It's insane. Like a mother going to work, and paying the bulk of her earned money for daycare. She ends up with the worst of both worlds...a marginal lifestyle and kids being raised by strangers. The daycare center makes out, the taxman makes out, the Calvinists get the satisfaction of seeing her labor...everyone benefits except her and her kids and the society they live in. She (and we) would be better off if she instead got a small subsidy to stay the fuck home and take care of those kids. And we'd be better off if people could get a subsidy for caring for their own elderly parents instead of putting them into expensive nursing homes paid for by Medicare and Medicaid. 4,000 per month is not unusual...Granny could stay in a nice resort for that kind of money. And the "milking" of benefits that occurs in nursing homes would blow your hair back...not a nickel in benefits goes uncollected by these places.
I realize this would irk many people who think you should never be paid for caring for your own family. But all we are doing now is paying someone else to do it instead, at far greater cost! SOMEONE has to do it, and that someone can either be a family member who needs a subsidy, or a stranger who will require a salary/benefits/etc...What doing something like this would cost the rest of us is a pittance compared with what it costs us now to do it the way we're doing it.
Let's face it...we've already established that we are willing to put a price on everything. So let's get off the moral high horse and acknowledge this, and stop demanding that some people do what is paid work anywhere else, and do it for free, or even at great personal cost. Throw these folks a few of the many, many dollars you are throwing at everyone else for doing the same job. We'll get better results for a fraction of the cost.
The Free Shit Army can be easily supported by spotted Unicorns that shit gold coins....
The middle class .... they still think they're free !
Enough "Obsession with Austerity !" .... Basta "Obsesion con Austeridad !" .... Chinga su madre, buey !
I've got a June 4th payment due to one of my vendors. I may default in sympathy with the greeks
Austria means austerity .... von Mises liked austerity so much .... he named his country after it ! LOL
There's nothing wrong with a little austerity. Notice I said "a little"...
The trouble is, like everything else, zealots take it to the extreme. Austerity, in a budgeting sense, means cutting back on all luxuries, and proper budgeting for necessities. It DOESN'T mean starving yourself, it doesn't mean throwing people out of work and into the streets...that isn't austerity. That's abuse.
Although I hate the old 'household budget' analogy, I'll use it here...If you are going to an austerity budget for your family for whatever reason, you cut back on vacations and all the things you can live without. You DON'T cut the things you DO need. You don't cut your kids down to one meal per day, you don't cancel little Johnny's dental appointment, you don't toss Grandma out on the street so you can rent the room to a paying tenant. You don't sell your kidney, or your daughters, in order to pay your credit card bills.
You DO make a valiant effort to cut out the waste and get your finances in order. But in the end, if you are unsuccessful, you DECLARE BANKRUPTCY and stiff those creditors. Because your FAMILY is more important than your bills, more important than your reputation, or your credit rating.
You NEVER sacrifice your family to appease your creditors, period.
Applies for both families AND countries.
Mises was a libertarian, but in a lot of instances he told it like it is. And frankly, if lenders don't want to lend to you no more for whatever reason, it means austerity. Spit against the wind all you like and austerity isn't bad from a economic viewpoint, only to neoklassicals and keynesians, because they believe in the consumption multiplier effect religiously. If you are spending too much money versus the income you get, you are losing economically and mathmatically as well. Subtraction means the opposite of addition no? Well. There you go, that's how it goes. Sorry....
Don't like the euro lenders, oh well, time to print your own money to pay for all the things you want, and see how much better you will fair. Spain can declare bankrupty as well, but you see they want to keep the government cheese. Spainards rather save their government cheese than save themselves. They probably view themselves as part of the government cheese.
Spain has lot of labor laws that give incentive not to hire people. Like I said they rather keep their government cheeee than themselves.
We are living through the decline of German dictatorial hegemony over the EU.
It has been clear for a while that Germany is supporting corrupt regimes and corrupt exploiting local interests (oligarchs) as a means to have political control over EU and other nations.
The resulting over indebtness from mismanagement is often substantially paid by Germany in exchange for holding the country in bondage, selling its assets for nothing (imposed nationalization) benefiting German and other Oligarchs, this suits Germany and the oligarchs but no-one else.
EU is waking up to this mostly financially powered dictatorship by Germany with assistance from big banks and mass media and countries are starting to rebel.
Already mass media is mass ignored as sources of truthfull information, as for banks they are considered less honest that snake oil purveyors.
A new EU will arise with Germany eventually marginalized at a political level.
is germany on the verge of losing another world war?
...again to RU and co.
Germany is 2-1 versus Russia in World Wars.
WWI -- Russia surrenders to Germany, which is later beaten by worldwide coalition.
WWII -- Germany beaten by worldwide coalition.
WWIII (Cold War) -- Russia collapses in the face of worldwide coalition including Germany.
If the EU is to survive, it has to be fully federalized, so that the EU Federal Government can simply issue Euros to pay down excessive debt. Z. Germans aren't stupid. They know this as well as anyone else. They just want to be sure that Germany is advantaged maximally in the new order, whenever it comes. In the meantime, they are milking the existing system for all it is worth.
"the IMF, the European Commission, and most especially Germany, want to send a clear message..."
Really? How arrogant.
The 'message' being sent is from the countries like Greece who have been steamrolled by this failed Euro project...and it sounds to me like "Fuck You!"
They'd best listen, because people WILL eventually run out of patience for this crap. Maybe they'd better get off their high horse and start dealing with reality before it deals with them first.
Greeks aren't saying "fuck you", they're saying "MOAR Europe. Taxation and regulation must be done through Bryssels." In other words they want permanent wealth transfers from the north to the south, and they're willing to cede more sovereignty to achieve it. Germany of course has its own ideas on how this should be accomplished.
Many are, that's true, but many more have had it with all this crap, and are willing to ditch the Euro.
Greece has been around a hell of a lot longer than the Euro, and although they've never been what you'd call 'financially efficient', they've managed to muddle through ok.
Until now. Well, what has changed? Yeah...the stupid Euro. The common currency that throws their skinny little flabby-armed girly economy right into the ring with the steroid-jacked German economy and yells, "Ok! Now compete!"
Latest poll I saw, I think it was in March, showed overwhelming public support for keeping the Euro - over 80%. The Greek public opinion can be summarized by "keep the Euro, end austerity". This was also the mandate given to Syriza. All parties wish to continue with the Euro but they have different opinions on how to handle the debtloads and proceed with integration.
Yes, the want to keep the Euro's spending power but not paying off their debts. And there the two shall never meet.
DISSELBLOOM to negotiate with Spain now ...
Podemos and the red judge lady will run Madrid and the "indgnant" lady will run Barcelona.
When Catalonia and Castille are on the same line its time for Draghi to start printing like mad !
Watch the HOT money run from Spain if these ladies really get the upper hand!
You mean no one voted for suicide?
Jeeeee wizz I wonder why?
Spain to Greece, we need your inter-related European Union bill to pay off ours. Just take the deal before you trigger the end of the gravy train.
/fucking sickness resides in Brussels.
We will bring in forces to incarcerate you. Remember, you're fucking with the United States of America. The same people who have military sites on your foreign property. Laugh now, piss your pants when it happens.
So the Spanish / just like the Greeks think they can vote themselves prosperity - and it will just somehow be provided.
If that really worked every county would just vote themselves riches.
The problem is (also happening in the USA) we end up with more people wanting a free wagon ride and not enough people wanting to pull the wagon.
The first solution is always borrow borrow borrow - as long as they can borrow they can give more people a free wagon ride with less people pulling - but when you lose the ability to borrow you discover what real austerity feels like.
Have you ever read, "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" by John Perkins?
It's an explanation of how the IMF really works, forcing programs and infastructure on countries that don't need or want it, and then forcing them into debt over those very programs and projects ad infinitum.
Don't blame the victims.
Do you think the groups that just "won a victory" in the last election want to stop borrowing money?
Or do you think that they will want every fucking euro they can borrow from the IMF or any other source that will give them loans?
If the "victims" are the people demanding more free shit at the ballot box then they are in fact the correct party to blame.
Shoot this motherfucker and his handful of NGO's
THE VENUS PROJECT - A NEW WORLD SYSTEM | Full Documentaryhttp://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rvpTmiVhcxU
Copenhagen tready, taxation, decoupling the Constitutional Laws. That's the agenda. Shoot these fucker's, ask questions later.
Long live the colors of green red and yellow.
Great idea. Get rid of austerity. Just keep borrowing and spending.
not that bad when compared to UK national debt to GDP which is more like 5 times the Spanish one, right?
You cannot build these eco-cities without investment. Venus Project fails to mention how they'll maintain such structures. It smells of serf taxation to a global panel to make decisions of life.
Sniper gun will fix their views. Hahaha.
The way to get elected -
Promise people you will give them more free stuff so they will have a better life without having to work very hard.
Throw in a few slogans about equality - hate a little on the rich.
People line up and vote for you --
Then once you are elected you don't do any of the things you promised - because even if you really wanted to give everyone a good life filled with free stuff it is impossible.
There are no solutions that don't involve extreme pain for the bottom 95% of the population. A depression is a giant shit sandwich, and there can be no recovery until it is eaten. If you try to force the rich to take a bite, they'll just emigrate.
There are two ways this can play out in a democracy:
(1) A military junta takes over and imposes a brutal austerity, which sometimes gets the economy moving again.
(2) Each election rotates in a new batch of popular reformers who, realizing they have zero chance of re-election no matter what they do, proceed to steal whatever they can lay their hands on.
Looking good in Europe right now. The way things are progressing we won't need to bother with a referendum in the UK after all. The nightmare that is called the European Union will have been destroyed from the inside due entirely to the stupidity of the would-be "slavemasters".
Default now and get it over with
Yah but.....
If you default you're locked out of the world's credit markets and the Greeks have NO intention of living within their means so they need another way.
If they intended to live off just tax receipts, they would have already defaulted.
There are SOOOOOO many fools that need to be parted from their money that Greece needs another way to do this. In this, Greece is doing a public service, helping idiots out with their excess cash.
For the life of me I can't figure what kind of idiot would have bought Greek bonds in the first place.
Squid.