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Russia Tells France It Gives Up On Mistral Ship Deal
With French ministers crowing about their better-than-expected GDP data (+0.7%) as some trend reversal that heralds a revolution, it appears Vladimir Putin is about to put a dent in their hopes and dreams. As Sputnik News reports, Moscow has finally given up on the $1.3 billion deal for two Mistral-class helicopter carriers and plans to build its own. Even worse for France, now Russia will discuss only the sum that Paris should pay Russia for the failed contract. However, as with everything in the world, there may be aulterior motive, as China comes sniffing as a white knight for the amphibious vessels (at a reduced price) and then sells to its 'ally' Russia (who has already pocketed the contract cancellation fees).
During the negotiations on the Mistral deal Russia and France have discussed only one question - the sum of the compensation.
"We switch the conversation to business - give us our money back... We're now discussing just one thing - the exact sum of money France owes Russia," Oleg Bochkaryov, a deputy chairman of the Russian Military Industrial Complex said.
Russia and France signed a $1.3-billion deal for two Mistral-class helicopter carriers in 2011. The handover of the first ship to Russia was scheduled for November 2014, but never happened. French President Francois Hollande put the delivery on hold due to Moscow's alleged interference in the Ukrainian crisis.
Moscow has repeatedly denied the accusations, and urged Paris to deliver on its contractual obligations.
Earlier today Oleg Bochkaryov told journalists that Russia plans to build its own Mistral-class helicopter carriers to replace the ones not delivered by France.
“We have these types of ships planned... but we will build them a bit differently. We’re not going to blatantly copy the [French] Mistral [design] right out,” Bochkaryov said.
click image below for interactive detail on the Mistral-class warship
However, while that may be immediate bad news for France, it appears there may be a silver lining. As The Diplomat's Ankit Panda wonders...
Is China Eyeing These Advanced French Amphibious Assault Ships?
China could be looking to purchase the two French Mistral ships that were originally built for Russia.
In 2014, France determined that it would avert plans to sell two of its Mistral-class amphibious assault ships that were originally bound for sale to Russia. The decision was spurred, in part, by pressure from French allies, including the United States, who saw a sale of a complex naval asset to Russia in the wake of its support of anti-government Ukrainian rebels as inappropriate. The deal between France and Russia had originally been concluded in 2011, and was canceled last year, leaving the French with two Mistrals in hand, miffed at the lack of an eager customer. The Franco-Russian agreement for the Mistral sale reached a final price of $1.37 billion euros for the two ships.
Two weeks ago, reports emerged in the Taiwan-based China Times, citing Duowei News, that China may be the latest customer for the French Mistral vessels. The report further noted that China’s People’s Liberation Army’s microblog noted a French task force visit to France. The French had sent two warships, including the Dixmude, the final Mistral-class ship built for the French navy. The French naval task force also comprised the Aconit, a La Fayette-class frigate. The report further noted that this visit marked the first time that a French Mistral docked at a Chinese port. All of this activity takes place amid the political difficulty of putting together a sale given the European Union’s still-in-place arms embargo against China–a retaliatory move for Beijing’s suppression of the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989.
The Mistral-class amphibious assault ship, named for the frigid, northwesterly wind that sweeps out from the French coast into northern Mediterranean waters, is well-equipped for island warfare, and littoral projection and command. For China, an investment in an advanced off-the-shelf amphibious assault vessel would be sensible given current tensions over disputed islands and sea features in the East and South China Seas. The Mistral is also capable of assisting in humanitarian assistance and disaster relief (HADR) scenarios, with extensive hospital facilities on board.
The French had further modified the Mistrals that were Russia-bound to accommodate the Russian Navy’s Ka-27 Helix helicopters. China also operates the Ka-27, and the more advanced Ka-28. China has both the use scenarios and the military infrastructure necessary to make effective use of the ships. China could additionally apply its own domestic know-how in modifying the Mistral to serve as a potent anti-submarine warfare (ASW) platform. The Mistral‘s hangar deck would let the PLA-N conduct considerably less constrained helicopter surveillance operations than its own Jiangdao-class Type 056A frigates.
Of course, none of this, including the tenuous rumors picked up by some sources, mean that China is anywhere near finalizing a purchase of the two Mistrals that never made it into the Russian navy. The possibility of China snapping up the Mistrals on the open market will surely spark the same sort of concern in the United States as the prospect of the Russian sale did in early 2014. Already, commentators are making the case that it might make sense for the United States to pluck these ships off the market, lest China add two capable ships to its growing and increasingly modern navy.
As unlikely as a sale might be, watch this space. The fate of these two free-floating French Mistrals could end up further tilting the balance in Asia should China purchase them.
* * *
To sum up: Russia ends deal, China steps in, France sells to China, then Russia buys from China
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Is their an algo to front run this sale?
Mc Cain to France
"ISIS is trying to steal your mistrals...we must confiscate them to protect them"
Cue mistrals piloted by isis shortly....
RIPS
Viva Le Slam-dance on France!!!
France wants to build another Mistral carrier anyway so they can keep one of them for themselves. The other ship goes to Germany, who are interested in buying a Mistral for a long time. Problem solved.
Is it magrav equipped?
Awe... Quelle fromage.
quel*
anyway, shame to be french, i would pay my life to get a nigger like obama as prez' instead, because, at least, like total failure in usa, you still got the excuse: HE HIS NIGGER...
WE CANNOT DO IT, WE GOT WORSE AND HE 'S FUCKING WHITE !!!
The two Mistrals are fitted out to Russian military specs not NATO specs. A lot of money would have to be spent converting them to NATO standards.
True. But the Europeans could expand their amphibious and sea transport capacity pretty fast compared to the Russians. I don´t think a German Mistral with a few Leopard2 on board in the Baltic Sea is something the Russians would really like.
If France and Germany wanted a Mistral a long time ago, they would have had them a long time ago. Anyway, if the French want to sell those ships that were custom designed for the Russian navy, it will be at a huge discount, like a few hundred million dollars. Problem solved.
Not so fast...the Mistral contract stipulates that France CANNOT sell to any other party without Russia's express permission.
France screws itself, pays Russia, then has to sell to China at rockbottom prices.
Two years from now, "new" Chinese Mistral ships flood the markets, complete with the Top Gun theme at launch.
pods
Won't the frenchies get the same flak from USSA because chinese fake islands/military bases?
Not to mention Tibet.
(not that anyone ever does)
T'is a helo carrier pods. You have to cue up the music to that Nick Cage classic "firebirds" instead.
Oddly appropriate given the French connection that the track was "white flag" by David young.
@BlindMonkey
Ah, the 'ol French surrender jokes !
This kind of ugly disdain and nasty jokes come from the firm refusal of the French to join America in Irak, in 2003. Since France refused to go to Iraq, American warmongers and neo-cons made French army look like cowards – as a punishment. Surrender jokes are the left overs of the 2003 Bush hate fest against the French.
But History has proved the French were right, and that the WMD were only a dirty trick to serve as a pretext.
Nevertheless, the hate of American warmongers against France remains still there, well alive, even in ZH.
This stale hate still shows through "innocent good jokes" about the “surrender monkeys” and their white flag … As for the rest, the French can be proud of their Military History which remains despite these stupid jokes the best military record in Europe.
In fact the French - surrounded by the Germans, English, Dutch, Italians and Spaniards (among others) - succeeded to win and guard the largest country in the very heart of Europe.
According to the British historian Niall Ferguson they did it by fighting 168 major wars even against such badasses as the Roman Empire, the British Army and the Turkish forces. They've won 109, lost 49 and drawn 10 times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Armed_Forces
The contempt for France now stems from their unashamed willingness to prostrate before that same US Gov/Media complex that insulted them over Iraq. The French could have stood up for themselves over their right to honor the Mistral contract just as they refused to fall in line with Iraq.
Instead they happily broke contract and are stuck paying €5mil/month maintaining ships they CANNOT sell without permission from the buyer they snubbed. Nice metaphor really; the Mistral, a symbol of French pride that they will now sink because a stronger "ally" told them to.
I can understand this, but I think it is a bit more complicated, and only the future will tell us if it was a sensible choice or a stupid mistake ...
Ahhh, nope. The disdain originates from their refusal to put up an effective defense against Hitler when they had the number, technical superiority and the Brittish troops in France.
It has fuck-all to do with Iraq.
@BlindMonkey
Americans have a lot of balls calling Frenchman “surrender monkeys” considering that nearly twice as many French soldiers were killed in in the 1940 Battle of France over six weeks as the United States lost in Vietnam over the course of a decade.
In 1939 and 1940 France was let alone (apart from only 8 British divisions, which succeeded to quickly re-embark at Dunkirk thanks to the sacrifice of the soldiers of the 1st French Army of the North).
France was let alone facing a nazi-fanaticized country with a population of 80 million (vs. 40 million in France), a particularly well prepared war-industry, and an air superiority of 5 vs. 1.
At the same time the “US ally” refused to sell planes on credit to France!
Contrary to what has often been said, and is a result of the Nazi propaganda of that time, and the neo-cons hatred in 2003, the German advance (Blitzkrieg) encountered serious resistance from the French troops. In the six week Battle of France, from May 10 to June 22, 1940, the French lost, in military personnel alone, 260,000 wounded and 108,000 killed. A total of 368,000 casualties in six weeks is not something to pass off lightly.
This is 5 times more than the losses of the American army in three months of battles in Normandy in 1944 (21000), and nearly the same amount than the US deaths in 7 months of WW1 (116700)!
It is the air superiority (over 1,000 Stuka bombers knocked out the troops defending Sedan) and the intelligent use of the German panzers that broke the defences and made ineluctable the defeat.
Since WW2, air superiority is generally the winning key of all battles …
The 1940 campaign was the most intense of all the battles that will take place later on the Western Front:
the Germans suffered heavy losses in just 6 weeks - approximately 60,000 killed 111 000 injured and above 1250 planes were destroyed which will be greatly missed by the Luftwaffe during the battle of Britain. Struggling one against five, the French fighter planes weakened the Luftvaffe (defeating two German planes for one loss).
Yes, the Germans gave the French a terrible beating. But it took the combined strength of the United States, Great Britain, Soviet Russia, Canada, etc., to beat the Germans.
It’s asking rather a great deal of France to match such strength against hers – with an air inferiority of 1 vs. 5. The US never faced more than 15% of the Wehrmacht – 80% were in the East - when France had to face alone 100% of Hitler's war machine in 1940 – plus 22 Italian divisions in the south.
In fact, the Germans would have walked straight over the British or American armies if any of these places would have been directly adjacent to France. Remember that in 1944, at the battle of the Bulge (Ardennes) the Americans were only saved by their planes.
Look for the "Dancing ISIS's" on the Deck.
But search for dual passports.
Or they could sell it to Greece. On a second thought, they will probably sell it to Ukraine or Lithuania to protect themselves from Putin, now that would be a politically correct way to go about it. Or maybe Qatar or Saudi Arabia could step in & buy those, at the end of the day Saudi has everything solved with its human rights thingy and even lead the efforts of entie civilised world in that field. Oh my, I'm giving them too many ideas.
The ISIS terrorists have to complete their training at CIA and JSOC HQ first. The US government doesn't just hand these billion dollar ships over to anybody.
Look at the linked article. There is a link there to a story that the US might sell retired A-10s to China.
France can at least have peace of mind knowing they did the 'Politically Correct' thing, as they continue to Fuck up their country with good intentions.
Doing what the US tells you to is not political correctness. It is weakness.
Toe may toe / Toe maht toe.
I've seen a ship with that same schematic, at Toys R Us, comes with a big rubber squid and two wildlife rescue rangers. How many penguins does this French vessel hold, and can I get it on Amazon?
It will be on craigslist soon with the "need this gone, no low ballers" tag line.
That rubber squid, does it have a the letters GS painted on it?
Spellcheck is free dudes.
So is your "subscription" asswipe. You get what you paid for.
they spelled it properly, just used the wrong word.
Maybe a small municipality in Indiana could use it to fight terrorists.
Think how many MRAPs that could ferry across Lake Michigan!
Everytime I see Mistrial, I read MissTrial.
Point to note, the eCONomies of the US, UK, France, Russia and China (all Security Council members) are all afloat on their respective MIC's.
The way to end wars would be to strike at the roots of these manufacturers of the tools of death. I visited the Bangalroe Air Show a few years ago and remember being aghanst (I am a former Naval Officer, luckily never had to take a life) as fair blue eyed men spoke blithely of Kill Ratios of the gleaming munitions on display.
The Israeli's showed a Palestinian raid to showcaase their multi-vector visual guidance system....
I worked at United Technologies and so have visited defence conpanies like Sikorsky and Hamilton and Pratt....the odious, heavy atmosphere and people are cloying....
Warship...worship....
https://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2012/03/23/un-holy-smoke-and-biblical-f...
I wanted to crab about you not including Israel in the MIC evil-doers club, ORI, but I'm confused whether they make more money on arms sales or sponging off the U.S. for handouts. Probably a toss-up. In some cases, it looks like it's all part of the same pipeline:
Israeli F16’s Falling from the Skies over Yemen
So, yeah, it's VT and you have to take it with a grain of salt. The only reason this caught my eye, however, was the earlier pics of the (supposedly) Saudi F-16 they dropped. Before this VT story, I had read the downing of the second F-16 on FarsNews (yeah, I know...) but the cheaply-stenciled "Royal Saudi Air Force" on the center tank was just odd and amateur-looking. I figured it was the Yemenis trying to fake something, not the Saudis or potentially Israel. I can't see Israel throwing away their old block A/B F-16s and/or Arabic-speaking pilots on Yemen - at least for FREE. Which brings up the disturbing question: Is Israel taking all the free shit the U.S. gives it and either reselling it or leasing it out to make money?
Some stupid Israeli-firster MIC/government clownfuckery pisses me off more than other stuff, but handing over billions of free arms so the Israelis can make a buck off of it goes way over the top. If the MIC has gone that full retard to juice sales, then it's time for the woodchippers.
The whole idea of a frantic U.S./Russian arms-peddaling race makes this even more disturbing. What a frickin' immoral, psychopathic waste.
True, but that is why I made sure they got honourable mention via their airshow presence.
And yes, it's a heck of a situation.
We consider manufacturing tools of massive, painful, need-less death and destruction as honourable and patriotic.
Lost genus...
"...The Israeli's showed a Palestinian raid to showcaase their multi-vector visual guidance system...."
I thought the Israelis were going to collar all the Palestinians with wireless trackers to aid targeting - whatever happened to that idea? It IS best to have multiple vectors for munitions guidance because old people, the disabled and children all have slightly different targeting profiles and are likely to flee an attack in a variety of ways that confound a good kill. Was this the guidance system for mortars and artillery or just more drone sensor garbage? India's smart enough to make that stuff. Why would they even buy any from Israel?
It won't be long before Israel is hawking their big-assed nuclear-penetrator carrying drone to India - just in case India wants to bomb Iran's non-existent nuclear facilities.
Yeah PW, ISIS Ra El is India's largest defence equipment supplier...I guess that says a lot about our future...
Or
France pays the money back to Russia
Then France turns around and sells it to China for Double the price .... not a bad deal
french technology might not be the best in the world, but their businessman command top dollar
Half price.
That or scuttle them.
@ Arius... actually, unpopular as this opinion might be, I think the French make the best cars on the planeT . The 308 GT, the 208 GTi and my personal favourite, the old 1.6 Peugeot 309.....
French cars have a heart, unrefined, unlike the German ones. The Italians just put tiny bodies on an engine and four wheels and call them cars.
My on-line diatribe @ James May.....
https://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2010/11/15/my-take-on-cars/
Funny shit I'm French and prefer German cars...
No Joke, French cars are good for middle-game good quality/price ratio, but if you want something more solid, powerful and some prestige go German...
Peugeot makes very good engines,. especilly their diesels.
I love the Peugeot 402 coupe.
402 coupé !? From what era do you come ? Why not 2 CV or a Berlier truck ?
That said for their era they were very good, today the quality is let's say different (and quite expensive for their game).
You can have Korean/Asian cars with 1,000,000 kms engine guarantee for the same price...
I must have meant the 605 or something. :-)
Extensively drove the diesel Peugot 4008 a couple of summers ago in France. A great car that I wish I could get here in the states...
FYI : China owns Peugeot :D
Only 15%
Peugeot makes very good engines,. especilly their diesels.
I love the Peugeot 402 coupe.
ignorant about China
Yeah, because the Chinese always pay double price for distressed assets. LMAO!!!
I don't know why Russia would accept them anyway. They are likely filled with trojan horses in the operating software.
Even if they are not filled with all of that, they would still be French. That means in the garage most of the time, being repaired by a French technician with high regards for his craft and unable and certainly unwilling to read, speak or talk anything but French.
Nah, better off with the money and home made machines!!
You are another idiot that doesn't know anything . and I bet you have never been to France. or outside or your COUNTY much less country.
You are an idiot. Look up the top cars, planes, machinery, or military hardware and tell me how many are French.
You are another idiot that doesn't know anything . and I bet you have never been to France. or outside or your COUNTY much less country.
Americans can't even speak proper English and shitheads like you bashing the French.
I can bash the Dutch if that makes you feel better, except they have even less sense of humour than the Germans. Believe it or not.
If you don't get it, I can always write it again,- slowly.
In France we speak French not the imperialist language know as English.
BTW, French is far more finer and diplomatic than English, international language should have been French not English.
Wealthy Chinese speak French in Elite circle, it's considered as being part of the Elite.
rant/
I heard that once they manage to clone Napoleon's DNA they're going to take over the world!
France is fucked. Too much socialism, too many Muslims, and the Zios have hijacked their institutions. Prepare to become another province of Tel Aviv, like the US has.
y does a guy like you think like a neanderthal ?
Lol, its become a knee jerk here at ZH; we all head for the Galapagos !
How can a modern man be scared of uneducated Allah ho Akbar idiots?
History had gone the other way until an American asshole puts us into reverse gear all for ME OIL !
Because the modern man is emasculated by feminism and Western soldiers fear death when in combat ?
Not to mention that the so called Allah Akbar idiots don't fear death in fact death is a recompense (martyrdom).
You can't really fight that kind of enemy, if you aren't ready to die, now tell that to the modern armies of gays and women...
BS...we didn't kill kings and make revolutions and survive two world wars to go belly up before a bunch of medieval clowns that were defeated by the Mongols.
This is only because the nations have sold themselves out to neo-feudals who are of the same mindset as those obscurantists.
Its time the people of west woke up from being drowned in decadence.
I can't agree, sorry. I have family in France, and most native French are very dedicated to their crafts, are cultured, and educated. However, they have stabbed themsevles in the gut by importing feces by the ton from the turd-world. The urban areas are becoming the Detroits and Baltimores of Europe.
@holgerdanske
Are you sure all French products are shits?
France produces planes (Airbus produces more than Boeing,), and cars (Renault-Nissan group produces more than Ford), and also high-speed trains, nuclear-power plants, rockets (Ariane), and satellites, and chemical and pharmaceutical products (Sanofi), etc …
They also have a decent navy, and a nuclear powered aircraft carrier. They make some nice fighter jets (the Rafale is not so bad) and missiles to boot, and are a nuclear weapon military ...
… and they have built several Mistral ;-)
Issues such as trojan horses and built in spyware are just two of the reasons that the Chinese may not have any interest in them.
It was stupid for Putin to want to buy these from France to start with. Better to purchase critical items from those who might still be willing to do business with you if the NATO conflicts escalate. Argentina found this out as well.
France simply delt a blow to their ship building industry and this cast a shadow onto other French heavy industry construction.
The article gives no solid reasons to suspect that China is interested in these ships. Might as well say that N Korea is trying to buy them.
The Diplomat authors are full of shit most of the time. Take their articles with a truck load of salt ;)
"aulterior motives"
Is that worse, same or better than alterior? or ulterior?
or is it both?
China's own navy has no use for those two vessels. They are useless without a special kind of helicopter. Ordinary Ka27s don't fit, it need the Alligator version with folding wings.
The French know that.
China's good buddies the Russians have designed and built a gazilion helicopers for the mistral.
I bet they'd sell em to Beijing.
Russia sell helicopters
Probably the best thing that could happen to Russia. I have never seen anything built in France that required a wrench that was worth a shit. They need to stick to wine and women.
Fate the Magnificent
"Push the Button, Max"
www.endofworld.net
How about the Bugatti Veyron?
J'aime Bugatti .
The Bugatti company is owned by VW. The Veyron was built (overseen) by a very stringent German Porsche guy. All losing money.
Evidently you have never been around many French cars, or even been to France.
French cars in Britain are a standing joke, horribly unreliable, usually seen on the back of tow trucks, with interior fittings that can be dismantled by kids in minutes, lists of endless electrical faults in particular due to poor quality control and bad design or asembly, and have to be sold before the warranty runs out. People buy them cos they're cheap and on low finance deals and by elderly people who don't need them for work.
I'll see your Britain, and raise you . . . Lucas Industries!
@Free-Spirit
Pitiful comment
Renault is regularly champion of Formula 1 for the motors (cf. with Red Bull)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Drivers%27_Championship
By the way Renault is regularly champion of Formula 1 for the motors (with Red Bull) ... And is the supplier for many Mercedes motors: 1.5 DCI 90Ch à Class A, B, CLA / 1.5 DCI 109Ch à Class B / 1.6 DCI à Class C
Also, based on data gathered from millions of pounds worth of claims handled by Warranty Direct every year, the Reliability Index brings you the most comprehensive ... http://www.reliabilityindex.com/
Peugeot and Renault build some damn good engines.
Lots of Germans buy them.
and Dutch also.
Suggest you get educated about the real world,.
That's correct. Hicktards aren't even aware of the Formula 1 championships that Renault has won.
Ever hear of the Concorde? Flew for over 20 years at supersonic speeds across the Atlantic.
Air France flight 4590
The TU-144 was larger and faster. Didn't have the refinement but last i heard the TU-144 was still flying for Boeing as a test bed for supersonic passenger jets. Pretty sure there's still some flying TU-144s. Wasn't a copy at all, was significantly different in key design areas.
Blame the US airline which "dropped" a piece of metal onto the runway.
Britsh engines matey, joint design otherwise. France was a sensible country in those days, working its way in the world, instead of the standing international joke its become.
France's Dassault Aviation is on of the world's premier makers of jet fighters and business jets.
This class of ship works very well for power projection in the third world. These ships in a second or first world situation would die a rapid death to either "submarine launced torpedo or anti shipping missile" "air launched anti shipping missile" "surface ship launched anti shipping missile" "shore launched anti shipping missile".
Russia sighed this deal when Putin was out of office, it was a deal meant to improve Franco-Russian relations, that is all. The Russian Navy itself really did not want those funds wasted on these giant white elephants.
If say Britain brought one of their helicopter carriers to invade the Falklands against the second world Argentine Navy, it would promptly be sunk by one of Argentina's two modern German built submarines. Or by a fighter jet launched anti shipping missile.
dup
Here's a thought. They could sell them to Spain and Italy who could use them to round up boat people in the Mediteranean.
Here's a thought.
The EU buys them, calls them FRONTEX Permanent Naval Assets and does the same job.
Nigel Farage would love, love, love it
"...round up..."??
I don't think that's what Spain and Italy have in mind. "Submerge" seems to be where policy is headed out there.
I'm not sure why this is. I'm sure the MIC started pushing them. The USA bought some under the speed and carrying meme with lower costs compared to the lumbering aircraft carriers who have to be protected by a group of other ships.
I don't know much about it though.
Probably since all ships are platforms they can have the same electronic protections, radar, and sensor.
But they might have a higher profile in the Water. Tall ship is easier to lock on or identify.
Putin... "out of office".
Wow, are there some useful idiots out that actually believe Putin was "out of office" while he was PM?
but but but
technically, he was.He wasn't invited to the Convention of Important Presidents for 4 years and he didn't get a presidential windbreaker and baseball cap with Russian flags on them during that period of time
It's inevitable, playing the part of a muppet against your countries best interests because the US told you that you had to.
Serves the surrender monkeys right.
It will serve 'Merica right as well when China buys them at fire sale prices and then sells them to Russia.
Bunch of fucking idiots- all of 'em.
Are those suckers are deployable to the South China Sea? That would be rich!
intention was coastal
but Russia don't need esp since Crimea
was terrible idea firstly
Russia intended the Mistrals for the Pacific.
I bet they can salvage the deal if France throws in a diplomatic Kerry hug.
or a donation to the Clinton Foundation.
If Russia can't build their own ship, they don't need it. And China?? LoL!! I wouldn't set sail in a row boat China built, much less put some expensive helicopters on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayKOlLhlQsc
China can build hi quality products. They send the crap to the USA to sell to dipshits who will buy anything.
Very true, but a lot of people don't realize that China exports cut-rate crap to people who want to pay cut-rate. And it does create a rather deceptive picture of China's capabilities.
China can copy hi quality products. There, fixed it for ya.
Dude, catch up with the times-- they got our jobs and our manufacturing-base, now they're coming to eat our lunch: http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/02/07/its-official-china-is-becoming-a-new...
No shit. And you can look-up the WSJ write-up on the topic as well. We got a billion of these motherfuckerts determined to get the life USSA was once used to.
my alma mater has been overrun by Chinese students. admissions had to start turning them away. apparently there is a flood of chinese students in the US - who have the Chinese government paying their entire ride: tuition, housing, food, etc . This is for masters and Phd candidates.
needless to say, the university is chuffed to bits because 1.) they pay cash up front 2.) they are low maintenance 3.) they stay out of trouble and 4..) they make a shit ton of money off them
Dude.
They've got their own space station.
Did you ever get your tricycle out of the sinkhole?
Hahahahhahahahah +1009908890
I wouldn't scoff at the technology of any country that can hit a satellite with a missile
So basically, that icludes the US, China, and.... oh, the US and China.
Any cunt believing the French Economy grew is a CLOWN.
Do you live in France? You seem like a stupid AmeriCUNT. Get me that burger , the only things you make.
Heh Dutch, you talkin' to me? I'm a EuroCunt but not as much of a Cunt as the rest of the Cunt's in EuroDisneyWorld aka LaLaLand. Spend 3 days a month in Gay Pareeeee and i tell you that the 20 Restaurants per person is not good economies of scale.
Was that massive .75 of a percent French increase doubly seasonally adjusted too?
Just invest in missiles , more bang for the buck and can reach anywhere on the planet.
Do the math.
Russia gets back all the money it paid France. It gets all the penalties that were agreed to and are written in the contract. And it owns the the aft section of the Mistrals which were made in St Pete.
Why do I think this is just a charade to keep Noodleman from castrating Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian?
I'm going on record to say that the French are probably going to sell the Mistrals to the Russians. I just have a crazy feeling.
The french have chosen, in this NEW cold war divide, to get a piece of Saud MIC; much moar juicy that Putin in terms of MIC plays (not energy where Total is a key Gazprom/Rosneft partner).
The French know how to hedge their energy/MIC bets, but cannot avoid a 10 trillion Euro banksta tsunami reset when it comes !
Russia does not own anything other than the right to sue France in international court. Just like Iran had to sue Russia when Russia refused to honor a fully signed agreement to sell missiles to Iran many years ago. That internaitonal court case by Iran was allowed to sit unattended by the court just as Russia's case against France might be.
Penalties, although the contract might call for them there is little chance Russia will ever receive any.
Ownership of the aft section, that is a laugh. What is Putin going to do? You Putin groupies claimed he would take real action against France including moving warships into France's waters (or at least refusing to allow them to have natural gas). Putin does not cause fear in the EU leaders due to military threat or action. Just another slap in Putin's face.
dunno stump
The Russians built the aft sections of both Mistrals in St Petersburg. I think the Russians own part of the ships.
Hey, if you can get the contract of sale between the French and the Russians we can settle this amicably.
And Iran and Syria had contracts with Russia for missiles. Having the legal high ground did them no good as Russia just ignored the contracts.
Perhaps big scary Putin needs to walk around the port waving his piece of paper. Russia is trying to negotiate to get as much back as possible so they do not get next to nothing in international court (if the case is not simply put on the shelf forever).
The Putin fan club indicated Putin would go in and force France to give up the ships by force. Nope. Putin will try to cut his losses as much as possible and who knows how long the negotiations will go on. Or perhaps France will just give Putin 25 cents on the dollar and then Russia will have a claim against France for 50 yrs until it is totally forgotten. France can make wild claims such as Russia is a "terrorist nation" doing evil and thus has forfeited all rights.
In the end France may have damaged part of it's industrial base far into the future. Or maybe France has been promised that some of that damage will be negated by receiving ship contracts from the US over some period of time.
This is the cost for Russia to have been so stupid as to pay for another country to build it's warships. Russians need this business and no need for exporting the work.
can you check Assad's check book?
But did Iran and Syria pay in full for the Russian missiles? I don't think so.
Russia paid France in full for the Mistrals.
by the bye
Isn't the US paying Russia to make its rocket engines?
I do believe it is.
Did Putin abide by the contract with Syria and Iran, two countries that Russia pretends to be allies with. No.
Does the US allow Russia to build the rockets for it's missiles or for any military equipment. No.
These are warships with complex electronics and with computer systems that can harbor hidden bugs and spyware. Also all the info on the electronics and controls is available to NATO/US. Hidden backdoors in the control systems could have been compromised such that it can be disabled from a NATO ship. It is simply stupid for a major power to allow France to build them. (Isn't France a NATO country?)
When the US allows Russia to build engines for war planes I will take note.
I actually did not know Russia had paid 100 percent of all the costs for the ships. Before they were taken delivery of, before they were secured by Russian security and before throughly tested. Absolutely stupid of Putin, that is so stupid I cannot find an excuse.
In all your comments about Putin and the Iran/Syria contracts for the sale of S-300s, you act as if you read the contracts.
I don't think you have.
There are in contracts conditions that have to be met, rights of the seller and the buyer to cancel the contract, with or without penalties.
Please say whether or not you've read the actual contracts or if you're just giving vent to your delusions.
actually StumpyDick, Russia did not provide the S-300s to Syria and Iran because Putin was trying to be friendly and polite with the Americans. You can see that no good deed goes unpunished. Putin is now shipping those Arms to Iran.
The same goes with the payment of the ships - Medvedev trying to be gracious.
what you call 'stupid' was historically the Russians trying to be polite and graceful.
those days are now done.
So Putin stabbed his allies in the back in order to be nice to the country that was intent upon destroying them.
That is actually the case the difference is I do not see this as a feather in Putin's cap.
What you call graceful in regards to payment is just incompetence. Chess player my rear.
Costing the Frogs some coin to kiss Uncle's ass.
Yep. The 'Charlie Hebdo' false flag was France's last reminder to play ball.
A dysfunctional relationship if there ever was one.
Looks like that press conference with Mr. Hienz when the the french PM said "France will invade Syria ourselves alone, even without a coalition" might come back to bite them.
Mr. French PM: Where do you think putin wanted to moor those ships? It sure wasn't a rhode island tax cheating shelter for billionaires. London has that market cornered.
There's this place... in the Black Sea...
According to wikipedia, the KA-28 is actually a downgraded KA-27, not "more advanced".
why buy a french tin can with a mossad magna bsp mini nuke inside.
china or russia would be crazy to take this thing with a 24-7 data stream operations system connected straight to tel aviv.
fucking crazy
crazy eye tells ya
You write that as if it were something bad for China...
Here's a theme VERY popular in China right now. "Teach the Child Like a Jew"...
http://www.amazon.com/teach-child-like-Chinese-Edition/dp/7501791309
The new cold war is imposing deep divides, especially in the field of MIC plays, which are along with energy and finance, one of the THREE vital threads that feed the current Political divide between East and West; having become a gaping chasm, a Grand Canyon type geopolitical divide between US floundering and China rising.
And Putin having chosen his camp--the Gazprom handshake with Mongol Empire of Middle kingdom-- he has thrown down the gauntlet to his EU neighbours saying : As YOU EU surrogates of Pax Americana under neo-con hegemony impose on me the time honoured choice of : "for us or against us"... I as leader of eternal Russia I say to you "fuck off", as that neo-con US scion said to you in Ukraine !
Now the EU is between a rock and a hard place : do we follow the Schroeder-Putin handshake on Russian energy or do we follow Pax Americana's new reset??
Today, the choice is undoubtedly Mutti's, KEY player in EU, who has as pardners a EU commission totally sold out to Big Business; aka US hegemony; and a France now caught in the vise of debt and unemployment all the while thinking that they can REPLACE the US "head up ass" neo-cons as pardners to Sunni Saud Alliance of ME totalitarian kingdoms who control the eternal Oil patch of Ghawar.
Hahaha, France doesn't want to die economically with Syriza, it doesn't want to die under unemployment stranglehold like Spain and its current Podemos revolt, it doesn't want to die with Banksta dystopia like Cameron...but it doesn't have the NUtS to think originally. So it chooses to join the ME kingdom; those who also subsidize those very rabid obscurantists who are spreading the Jihadist disease from Indonesia to Senegal !
Its now on the Medusa raft just drifting along with all the others.. taken along with the deep tide of "boko haram" revolt simmering like Vesuvius in the Empire of new Rome.
Both the US and France WHO fathered the Enlightenment have now become the most rabid enemies of freedom and enlightenment meme as supporters of current western Obscurantism: both financial in debt print and in energy subservience to ME Oil kingdoms.
It will not finish well, just like the end of the Bourbons and the "grand faucheuse of Bastille fame".
Something the Europeans understand but which will be NOVeL for the sons of Jefferson.
What? We THE chosen people of middle USA? We be the new Sioux in this global re-shuffle ?
Sacrificed like Geronimo in the name of the dying breed of libertarians with head up ass delusion that nothing can EVA happen to them in their own haloed hunting grounds of USA ?
Holy cow ! If only "I had read History!"
bullish for Sikorsky
Short summary... there is a price for reneging on a deal
China already in serial production of its own amphibious assault ships, buying from the Chinese will be much more cost effective...and no, China doesnt need to buy eurocrap to have ships for Russian buyer...
http://www.china-defense.com/smf/index.php?topic=5627.560
Yah... that homepage shows they are RE-COMMISSIONING 30 year old ships...
Who needs to buy new when you can recycle... yas, MUCH more "cost effective"!
Maybe just save them for some "lend/lease" program for Russia in the future.
russia should have hired the israelis.
they have a good record in stealing french ships that they (the israelis) already paid for an had built and then had france cancel the deal on them.
russia stands in the same situation. the ships are built!. they should just hire some pirates to steal the french ships!.
GO ISRAEL. FUCK YOU ZH NAZIS. FUCK YOU COME AND GET IT!
Wipe off the kike kum dribbing down your chin.
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the Cherbourg Project. France tried doing the same thing to Israel in 1969. Israeli commandos "liberated" their ships during the night of Christmas Eve, and sailed them back to Israel.
i just did.israel is awesome. fuck the nazis. and nazi propoganda.
France prostituted herself when Sarkozy (the same fucker who sold 600 metric tons of our gold) chosen to re-integer NATO command meaning becoming USA's and Israel's bitch...
It was the beginning of the end.
Now Hollande, (the French president with the dutch name) is a total bitch to foreign interest.
We first forbidden Peugeot to sell cars and parts in Iran to please the chosenites, result ? 8000 jobs lost.
Now, we stop the deal of the ships, Result ? We must repay back the money and losing credibility on the international business.
Fuck that noise.
Hollande is NOT a Dutch name. Where do you get that shit from? Sarkozy is a KIKE roach.
It's a French joke: La Hollande in French mean Dutch/Netherlands in English.
Netherlands is called Pay Bas in French.