To avoid a violent militaristic clash with China, or another cold war rivalry, the United States should pursue a simple solution: give up its empire.
Americans fear that China’s rapid economic growth will slowly translate into a more expansive and assertive foreign policy that will inevitably result in a war with the US. Harvard Professor Graham Allison has found: “in 12 of 16 cases in the past 500 years when a rising power challenged a ruling power, the outcome was war.” Chicago University scholar John Mearsheimer has bluntly argued: “China cannot rise peacefully.”
But the apparently looming conflict between the US and China is not because of China’s rise per se, but rather because the US insists on maintaining military and economic dominance among China’s neighbors. Although Americans like to think of their massive overseas military presence as a benign force that’s inherently stabilizing, Beijing certainly doesn’t see it that way.
According to political scientists Andrew Nathan and Andrew Scobell, Beijing sees America as “the most intrusive outside actor in China’s internal affairs, the guarantor of the status quo in Taiwan, the largest naval presence in the East China and South China seas, [and] the formal or informal military ally of many of China’s neighbors.” (All of which is true.) They think that the US “seeks to curtail China’s political influence and harm China’s interests” with a “militaristic, offense-minded, expansionist, and selfish” foreign policy.
China’s regional ambitions are not uniquely pernicious or aggressive, but they do overlap with America’s ambition to be the dominant power in its own region, and in every region of the world.
Leaving aside caricatured debates about which nation should get to wave the big “Number 1” foam finger, it’s worth asking whether having 50,000 US troops permanently stationed in Japan actually serves US interests and what benefits we derive from keeping almost 30,000 US troops in South Korea and whether Americans will be any safer if the Obama administration manages to reestablish a US military presence in the Philippines to counter China’s maritime territorial claims in the South China Sea.
Many commentators say yes. Robert Kagan argues not only that US hegemony makes us safer and richer, but also that it bestows peace and prosperity on everybody else. If America doesn’t rule, goes his argument, the world becomes less free, less stable and less safe.
But a good chunk of the scholarly literature disputes these claims. “There are good theoretical and empirical reasons”, wrote political scientist Christopher Fettweis in his book Pathologies of Power, “to doubt that US hegemony is the primary cause of the current stability.” The international system, rather than cowering in obedience to American demands for peace, is far more “self-policing”, says Fettweis. A combination of economic development and the destructive power of modern militaries serves as a much more satisfying answer for why states increasingly see war as detrimental to their interests.
International relations theorist Robert Jervis has written that “the pursuit of primacy was what great power politics was all about in the past” but that, in a world of nuclear weapons with “low security threats and great common interests among the developed countries”, primacy does not have the strategic or economic benefits it once had.
Nor does US dominance reap much in the way of tangible rewards for most Americans: international relations theorist Daniel Drezner contends that “the economic benefits from military predominance alone seem, at a minimum, to have been exaggerated”; that “There is little evidence that military primacy yields appreciable geoeconomic gains”; and that, therefore, “an overreliance on military preponderance is badly misguided.”
The struggle for military and economic primacy in Asia is not really about our core national security interests; rather, it’s about preserving status, prestige and America’s neurotic image of itself. Those are pretty dumb reasons to risk war.
There are a host of reasons why the dire predictions of a coming US-China conflict may be wrong, of course. Maybe China’s economy will slow or even suffer crashes. Even if it continues to grow, the US’s economic and military advantage may remain intact for a few more decades, making China’s rise gradual and thus less dangerous.
Moreover, both countries are armed with nuclear weapons. And there’s little reason to think the mutually assured destruction paradigm that characterized the Cold War between the US and the USSR wouldn’t dominate this shift in power as well.
But why take the risk, when maintaining US primacy just isn’t that important to the safety or prosperity of Americans? Knowing that should at least make the idea of giving up empire a little easier.
No mention of bankers, MIC, corporate lobbyists for TPP (et al.). Clearly nothing but an academic puff piece.
"If America doesn’t rule, goes his argument, the world becomes less free, less stable and less safe."
Now I remember why I quit doing mushrooms...
The idea of being ruled by Communist just doesn't sit well with me....
Imagine living in North Korea if you need a better picture... (Whoosh!)
get a clue! you're already under communism.
and unless your house happens to be located in the spratly islands, there's no reason to support the psycopath warmongers from your geographical area starting some shit with the psychopathic warmongers from the eastern geographical area.
That about sums it up.
You don't get an empire, if you're willing to give it up.
It's important to remember that Satan enjoys anal sex, so please try to avoid it. Thank you.
I think Gobbler likes Anal Sex, he sure talks about it a lot....
http://www.zerohedge.com/search/user_comments?username=Gobbler
a vendor never kick the ass of his buyer....
this is all BS here.
''As the Bretton Woods Project points out, emerging nations with large real economies and small financial sectors were the countries which best weathered the economic crisis, which was caused by advanced economies with large financial sectors(9). Like the modern opium war it waged in the 1980s and 1990s – when it forced Asian countries to liberalise their currencies, permitting western financial speculators to attack them(10) – the IMF’s prescriptions are incomprehensible until they are understood as instruments of financial power.
Decolonisation did not take place until the former colonial powers and the empires of capital on whose behalf they operated had established other means of retaining control. Some, like the IMF and World Bank, have remained almost unchanged. Others, like the programme of extraordinary rendition, evolved in response to new challenges to global hegemony.''
http://www.monbiot.com/2012/04/30/empire-of-capital/
I agree that the whole thing is an illusion. I have a home with a mortgage and ridiculous taxes so in effect a second mortgage. If and when I pay my mortgage then I still have to pay this ridiculous taxes in perpetuity. It is nothing more than a protection money racket. But to call them psychopathic warmongers simply obscure the issue. It is the same protection money game at a much larger scale. You know, like the old ganster movies, US wants a piece of your action.
The US holds no particular monopoly in corruption. It just happens that at the moment, they hold the bigger guns.
All governments are bad.
The crux of the matter is how much bad there is.
On Zerohedge comment section, all governments are bad, but...
Russia + China = omg so dreamy, central planning so hot
Yep. All governments are bad....
Some governments (namely UK & US) actually made some other countries governments even WORSE. (google Opium War and Cold War.)
Just because you came up with a new, cutsie name 5 days ago, don't mean you can post your old and worthless chazerei and get away with it.
Just worthless finger-pointing, bro.
Everything bad ever was caused by just two nations! All other nations were perfect!
Nonsense. But thanks for saying my name is cutesy.
China's arc was set in stone, irrespective of your laughable little fixation with the Opium War, because all peoples in the world were becoming nationalistic at that time--from the French Revolution all the way to the run up to the First World War. It was a global unstoppable trend. People were communicating beyond their villages with new technologies, and finding their mass strength against the old aristocratic structures. Everywhere. At this time, China was not even ruled by ethnic Chinese, though. It was ruled by a Manchu minority.
If you know anything other than how to cherry-pick historical events that fit your need to blame specific powers, then you know that modern China is all about Sun Yatsen, who grew up in America, learned perfect English and was influenced by its ideas of nationhood and democracy. He dreamed of returning these to the Manchu-ruled empire.
China was not a nation then. It was controlled by Manchu rulers and elites, non-Han Chinese, and there were laws in place to discriminate against average Han Chinese. After several attempts to overthrow the Manchu, Sun Yatsen eventually brought China into the global trend of ethnicities looking beyond their villages and seeing themselves as nations. He gave the Han Chinese a nation that did not actually exist yet.
None of this actually has anything to do with the Opium War, because that's just a red herring, a blip in the larger scheme of things that were trending throughout the 19th and early 20th century. Fools buy into that pandering.
Bro, I'd continue, but what's the point?
Yep. Historical fact negged. Mindless rant plussed.
As expected.
ZH has some real mouth-breathers in the comments, grasping tightly to their simplistic "Horton hears a Hu Jintao" narratives of how the world works. Neg all you want.
The Opium War was a sideshow in the larger scheme of things. Like the Taiping Rebellion, which did far more damage to Chinese society, but never gets mentioned because it serves no modern political expediency.
Thanks for spending your time/ life writing lengthy posts...knowing this makes it all the more enjoyable when serving a left-jab down-post...which, by the way, I happily give without wasting my time/ life reading your dumb-ass comments.
Have fun being ignored ignoramus.
TL;DR
Your 271 characters is 131 more than I am capable of processing.
touching
So, dindu, the 2 Opium Wars and Boxer Rebellion were no more to you than a small chopped liver appetizer before the whole roast goose entree stuffed with kreplach == the Taiping Rebellion.
The Boxer Rebellion ended in 1901 with an indemnity of $333,000,000 to be paid to the Eight-Nation Alliance. If a dollar today was worth 1 cent in 1913, figure out what the Alliance demanded of China to end the war. $35,000,000,000. And not one Chinese soldier set foot in one of the eight nations.
The UK, US and six other goniff nations shoved that protocol down China's throat and now, 115 years later, are getting sand castles shoved down theirs.
More importantly, indeed dindu nuffin is a cute name. Anything with a lot of 'f's and 'u's always is.
Unfortunately, the name is probably a lot cuter than the person.
Such is life.
"If a dollar today was worth 1 cent in 1913, figure out what the Alliance demanded of China to end the war."
The price was set in silver. That's obvious, given the multinational nature and the obscurity of the dollar at that era. We here at Zerohedge frown upon your implication that silver is exposed to inflationary pressures!
"And not one Chinese soldier set foot in one of the eight nations."
But plenty of unarmed civilians from those eight nations were put six feet under chinese soil before the war began. That could happen to Chinese people living today in many western cities or in Africa, and how would China feel about that? Ready to fight? Probably.
You're knee-jerking to a conclusion about who is always wrong, based on who you want to always be wrong. Maybe every nation was wrong back then, the same way that every nation is more or less wrong now. Whatever the case, the facts don't justify long-term outrage. You've got a lot of water under the bridge since then, and famines and cultural revolutions which were huge "own goals" that never seem to produce any indignant rage. It's all just useful twaddle.
"Unfortunately, the name is probably a lot cuter than the person."
32" waist and thick manly Hulk Hogan mustache. Chicks dig it, bro.
I'm very glad to learn you are studly. I really don't enjoy wasting time replying to Richard Simmons types.
"The treaty (Nanking) was supplemented in 1843 by the British Supplementary Treaty of the Bogue, which allowed British citizens to be tried in British courts..."
"The opium trade continued and even expanded under the generous import-license privileges that the Treaty of Nanking had granted to British merchants..."
"This first of the so-called “unequal treaties” with China also ceded Hong Kong to Britain, opened five coastal cities, including Canton, to British rights of residence and trade, and imposed a very low tariff on British imports under the “most-favored-nation” principle. In 1844 the French and the Americans pressured China into granting them the same trading rights as the British."
The terms of the 1842 treaty was responsible for the events which occured in the following 60 years.
Think about it, Din.
How would you like it if representatives from Goldmansachsistan suddenly showed up with a key to your house, hanging out there 24/7, selling Mrs Nuffin expensive beauty products that she doesn't need yet and pushing little Dindu, jr. into using opium and selling it to his friends?
I think you'd be pissed off.
Dat depends if you de OUTRAGEE or de OUTRAGOR
Opium War was bad, but the Manchu were also bastards to the Han Chinese, too.
For 200 years after their conquest, if you were a Manchu, you lived comfortably on a stipend paid by Han labor. Ancient EBT.
All told over the centuries, the Manchu siphoned far more blood money from the Han than the Eight Power Alliance wanted from the Manchu. That system was bound to collapse eventually, whether it was nudged or not by foreigners. When it collapsed, China was bound to fragment in warlords like always. Then it was bound to be re-united as a modern nation-state because that was the global trend. It's hard to get angry about something like that.
Bad people did bad things to other bad people. History of the world.
oh look what the fucking cat dragged in... fuck off, I've never seen you post anything of note here...
that's cause dindu has only been posting for 5 days.
before he elected to pontificate here, dindu nuffin dindu nuffin
He does make a noteworthy argument for "might makes right."
"The purpose of a System is what it does." -- "Have Fun At Work"
I can't go into it now, but I am the Genghis Kahn of the dindus and of the nuffins which explains my abnormal liking for this newly arrived right-wing, neocon Dindu and his cute sobriquet.
"Straw Man Argument Much!" +1,000 on the Straw Man scale!
Fuck China. Destroy them.
Good idea! You go ahead and start the war yourself. Oh wait, you want someone else to do the fighting for you? FOAD.
You can start with your local WalMart.
What are you waiting for. The Military needs good men willing to fight and destroy China, they have a place for you. Get on with it!
China ain't Iraq hope you are ready to fight a couple of millions if not dozen of millions pissed off Chinese who are ready to put a chopstick in your ass.
Sideways?
'in a world of nuclear weapons with “low security threats and great common interests among the developed countries” '
Such as enslaving and looting their populations?
America's neurotic self image isn't half as nutty as its schizophrenic dollar policy. Cheap enough to drive exports and simultaneously expensive enough to prevent rising interest rates...
Great premise!
The U.S. should unilaterally abandon established norms of international law and empower China as a revisionist power.
/sarc
You mean the USSA should go quietly into the night like the USSR did two decades ago, instead of throwing a childish temper tantrum at great human cost?
/no sarc
What is the USSA but a collection of powerful men? Their world that they control is threatened by the Chinese collection powerful men. The only way this doesn't result in war is if the West's elite are losing markets at home. Not economic problems, but control problems. Violence either way.
The 21st century is when everything changes.
Both countries need war. The United States to try to maintain domestic support. China because of it's huge demographic problem, it has far too many young men and not eongh young women. Everyone assumes a war would go nuclear but there's no reason to believe that if the people at the top decide between themselves to not make it so. World War 1 had gas and then due to agreement between all sides was not used in World War 2. No reason to believe that the same type of agreement couldn't be worked out again and the slaugther of serfs could commence.
I don't buy the Chinese demographics as a reason to go to war. Is it not easier (and more profitable) to debauch a population with prostitutes and moral leniency than to send then war? they could make the men pay the State a dowry to get married or something stupid like that. There are easier ways than war is all I'm saying.
Chinese already pay bride-price of about 40000-60000 RMB for their wives, to the father.
So the husband to be pays for the wedding rather than the father of the bride?
Correct, but that's another portion altogether. The bride-price is kept by the bride's father as a consolation prize for not having sired a son instead.
All told, you pay about $100,000 upfront to marry a respectable girl in central China. House, car, ring, wedding, bride-price. All paid up front by you and your parents. Mostly parents.
You heard Chinese are savers. Here's why.
Commies need a war to keep the rabble from overthrowing them. You think the commies stashed 4 trillion in the Caribbean because they believe their own bullshit?
misplaced rant . it aint chinese and they are not commies . its murican socialists neocons and neoliberals who need a war to keep running chaos empire economy .let that sink in .
Let's just nuke the gold, old problem solved, new problem started with a fresh outlook.
Let's see, where are those pesky reserve vaults supposedly at?
To address the silly notion that war doesn't solve problems--war is the only thing that ever has or ever will solve problems. Even in Revelation is described the final war between good and evil that will end evil. The situation today is almost exactly like before WW I in that everyone really wants to fight, except now there's the added impetus that this time, we HAVE to fight--it's the only thing that can save us from the multiplex, unsolvable, miserable messes we're in. Besides, nuclear war won't really be all that bad, physicists have proven it.
I've just starting to read Carl Von Clausewitz's, epic work, titled "On War". He was one of the first, to tie in, Politics to War. His theory was that War was an extension of Politics and that you can't have one, without the other.
Previous world wars 1 and 2 were constructs by the bankers, if this truly is the east vs west, it will be different.
http://www.theworldofchinese.com/2013/09/chinas-demographic-timebomb/
I agree that it serves little purpose in terms of security in the nuclear age, but it does provide economic benefits in many ways, in finance, arms sales, corruption and influence, etc. And it's for this reason it carries on, not because America cares about it stature. All of these coordinated activities are not done for this reason. It's the money.
One of the better books I've read about the American Empire is Freeing the World to Death, by William Blum.
http://williamblum.org/books/freeing-the-world-to-death
The U.S.A will go down in a blaze of glory before it gives up it's "empire".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qklYFKA8kl0
It might be more like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASzBAOzRaBw
(think searing flesh and skynet)
That's nukular.
That's a more convincing incineration than those in the Katz ISIS False Flag Series.
I don't see much Glory in the USSA collapse, could be a big bunch of blazes though.
Big blaze and flash...but no glory.
I don't know about the "glory" part.
Empiricism rules, Z/H, not motherfucking China or motherfucking America. If you really understand empiricism you know exactly what is manifesting throughout the entire World since March 10th and the takedown of petrodollar supremacy that manifested during the bear raid of Bear Stearns, and Lehman Bros., AIfuckingG, Fannie, Freddie, GE Capital, et cetera. GET FUCKING REAL and don't fall for this US & China crap-O-la propaganda bullshit being spewed. The end game is zero sum and zero sum is empiricism, baby!
are you sure you don't mean "imperialism" instead of "empiricism", MASTER BAITER, i mean, MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE?
em·pir·i·cism
"the theory that all knowledge is derived from sense-experience. Stimulated by the rise of experimental science, it developed in the 17th and 18th centuries, expounded in particular by John Locke, George Berkeley, and David Hume."
17th/18th century limey dudes, BuckO.
Like I said, empiricism rules.
it does
only if you push the envelope
you can push the envelope all you want, but it's still stationery
Nyet, the envelope is always in a state of flux and never static. That is exactly how all the Quants fucked the World over with their collective ignorance, post turtle saver. Housing prices don't always go up forever. The price per barrel of oil does not always go up forever either.
keep dreaming kool aider . whatever helps you
sleep
Say good-by to your bottle of whiskey
War will not be avoided
It has benn planned out for many years
It is an end game goal of the SUPREME WORLD SOVIET EMPIRE
Of course it does have to bow down to the AC
Obama
Tuesday marks my 365 day 1st year anniversary on Z/H. Do I get a cake and candles? Moreover, does the automated system automagically tell the Tylers to send me a free Z/H T-shirt or what?
Who is sending me my bottle of whiskey?
You get a free one-way ticket to a Cuban resort not of your choice
I don't fly because I know too much about Mechanical Engineering, metallurgy, and engines/turbines. Moreover, I don't have a passport because there is only one country in the World that I feel comfortable in. And the American Government probably has my name on a 'no fly' list somewhere. Frankly, extraordinary rendition would not agree with me IMHO. I could use the money from the lawsuit I would file if I ever visited GITMO, but I refuse to fly due to gravity, and logic.
You're more than welcome to buy this Cough Mask...
http://www.cafepress.com/zerohedge.419236014
That is a challenge worth to be accepted.
The Z/H Cough Mask does not have a filter rating, and would not guard against H1N1. Further, it is too expensive, and does not have an inter-changable filter system so that I can use it for painting with automotive paint. Frankly, my double filter Safety Mask works better IMHO, and I can use it for multi-tasks if I change the filters.
I've been officially registered for almost five years and ZH still won't allow me to post my copious doom porn pics.
My first anniversary was ceremoniously ignored.
Not going to happen,
The next great war will be a cyber war anyway, electrical grids, banks, etc. Just saying. Physical fronts, army v army, are so 20th century, unless proxy.
The question is not whose leaders are insane, but rather whose leaders are stupid.
That question is easily answered.
deleted
Can we give up our empire and not give up:
etc.
etc.
etc.
>>> Can we give up our empire and not give up: ...
Yes, the USA could give up empire and not give up those things.
But it isn't going to. It prefers to go down in a blaze of glory (literally).
Heck, the US can't even keep out of meddling in soccer, a sport in which the USA barely participates.
DOJ/FIFA has had something to do with the restating of the Clinton Foundation Books.
Hillary got a heads up about this donor and several others after she turned over the SOS position to Kerry.
Yes the King and Queen relinquish their Empire reluctantly.
I continue to endorse Hillary for POTUS 2016.
You know, at some point even the German military figured out that Hitler was leading them over a cliff.
The U.S. really would not like to continue Reserve status. It was already made clear. Exchausted.
Michael Pettis has some stuff on this. Reserve currency is the "exorbitant burden" not an advantage.
Really? Then why are the BRIC's moving very visibly away from this system that burdens the US so much to others advantage that they do not wish to remain within it? And then why does China want to become at the very least "a" reserve currency if not "the" reserve currency?
Prestige. Not everything is about calculated advantage.
Chinese are not necessarily long-term thinkers who have the perfect central plan in place. The trappings of power and respect have their allure to those that seek to rise, even at a net cost.
yep no one in this plAnet is smarter than yanks . Ignorant retards . You know nothing yet .
The very smart Mr. Pettis has commented over the years of the scrutiny his colums receive, and hints he gets. He will one day resume eating with knife and fork.
If it's gotta be fiat, then it's gotta be BANCOR.
All those who are in defeatism camp need to report to FEMA camps for hard labor right away. Dont they get it: War Is Peace?
Arbeit macht frei.
There is no American Empire. It is a corporate global regime's empire of which the US is a conquered state. There is no America to give up anything.
It is important to make this clear because the economic interlinking corporate empire that runs the west is as much of a threat to the United States as it is to China and Russia.
Americans don't know this, because their schools teach them a biased view of history, but the US and the world have been through this before. In 2 words: Manifest Destiny.
When the US appetite for other people's lands and resources ascended in the 1800s and they set their sights on conquering all of North America, Canada came into being as a direct response to that imperialist ambition. Even the traditional enemies (French and English) joined forces, to prevent this from happening. Upper Canada (English) was what is now Ontario, and Lower Canada (French) was what is now Quebec.
The political union was effective in stopping the northerly expansion of the 19th century Neocons.
If the BRIICS persist, and remain strong and keep a united front (with the Silk Road 2.0 as the Prize), then the US will have no choice but to back off and make the best of its Decline. The alternative will be a very public embarrassment of repudiation and rejection by an ascending alliance of powers.
Uncle Sam, your Rx of MIC-Viagra might give you an erection, but it won't keep your potency from declining.
Hate when that happens...
50 mg and it's all good until she goes in to shave her chins, neck and face, pulls her teeth out, sags ALL over the bed, sharts on her first cum and lies motionless for the next four weeks.
The flies are kind of a turn off.
OMG...not interested in eating my breakfast now.
Empire.....an extensive group of states or countries that are ruled over by by a monarch, an oligarchy or a sovereign state. There have been thousands of empires, some large many relatively small contained by other empires. What is the minimum population to be an empire? There is no requirement statistically. The empire now is no longer geographical but monetary; who does one serve? When Athens was defeated by the Spartans it was a major blow to the idea that an empire should have a responsibility or even its only justification, a non-elitist expansion of equitable humanist expansion of knowledge and the appropiation of learning over blind personal ambition...well a brave hope. No such hope remains there is only an archaic reductionist robotic slave-consciousness implanted without hope of redemption but the good thing about humanity is its supreme adaptability.
"US hegemony makes us safer and richer". Unless you are dumb enough to be the citizen of a country that is being bombed by that peaceful and awfully smart United States....
The US is Carthage, China is Rome
.
They think we will retire to our doomed faraway shores with our best generals in disgrace
"To Carthage I came, where there sang all around my ears a cauldron of unholy loves," Augustine about 400 ad. OK he was determined to put a stop to all the orgiastic Roman worship of the elemental Gods.
Only on Zerohedge comment section does an obviously well-read commenter like this get dinged down by a book-burner. Also, St Augustine was quite a cad himself before he found religion. He wrote all about it in his Confessio.
"Oh Lord, give me chastity, but do not give it yet."
One of the only viable sectors left in this US "economy" is producing military hardware to sell to other countries, at incredible cost to the taxpayer, who is left subsidizing all the shitty ideas, with the saleable ideas eventually hitting the market. For that reason alone, though there are surely others, the US will never give up its aggressive militaristic stance -- it has become the "Industrial Policy" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_policy) of the United States of Central Planning. At this stage in the game there is absolutely no way the US political establishment, as currently comprised, would ever de-escalate.
Did I miss something? We owe them MONEY! They can't fight back...hell, neither can Japan...Germany, any one that owns a bond/stores gold/ half the worlds public employees funds, foriegn municipalities, or that carries a dollar bill or needs a GM/Ford part. Shit, I can't stop laughing. Think if Hitler really learned what he needed to know from Weimar, he could've conquered the world with a bund. Stupid Hitler, smart Americans. I need to tape my ribs. Kings of the world with Wal-Mart crowns.
Merca's delusional Walter Mittys will stubbornly go on believing (despite being destitute) that they are masters of the universe until the USSA implodes...any moment now.
Yep, but taking the rest of the world down with us makes it special and exceptional.
We have an Empire!
Cool.
I can say I was There.
This article is risible written by someone who has no knowledge of the problem-- the southern seas. If I am not right please tell me how he is qualified to give us a discourse on the legal and geo-political issues.
This is not about the USA and China (oh. the hubris) but about the Vietnam VS China and then Philippines VS China and so on . The Philippines has successfully brought it's case over the disputed islands to UN which will be heard at the Hague in July over the disputed islands. And, for all you Putin fans, Vietnam will receive 3 Gepard class frigates from Russia. Want to keep their Cam Ranh bay parking rights.
There will be no war between China and the Us over this. Just much bluster. As an aside, the hyperbole was in the Global Times (mouth piece for the Party). In China it has a very limited circulation-i.e. nobody reads it. However the West does and hyperventilates. But that is it's purpose. The PLA propaganda dept. has to buck up their soldier slaves. Real policy is made by cooler minds.
Some good points Apo. China does not fear the US. Between Chinese takeover of manufacturing (a fair bit of it in factories built in China by American companies using American money) - and US economic self-destruction (banksters, unpayable debt, welfare state, anti-business regulations, aging demographics, etc) - the Chinese know the US Empire will topple on its own. Another poster mentioned we may be fighting a cyberwar with China. I am doubtful that a full cyberwar would be fought, but I am sure that each country has already worked out how to cripple each other's stock (and other) electronic markets - not to stop trading - but to cause massive wealth loss and instability.
China does not need to fight a war. It has 'money' and 'Western laws' available to it. Unlike Japan in WWII, China just goes to Brazil, Australia, Canada, etc and buys the natural resources it wants - or buys the companies in those countries - legally and with full protection of Western property laws. But in China, foreign investors only get to buy 49 percent of a Chinese company. The Chinese are concerned more with younger Asian countries who have even cheaper labor than China and better demographics. Hence, more reason for China to 'lock up' important resources like copper, rare earth minerals, iron ore, etc.
And China sees no benefit to invading Vietnam or the Philippines - they are already crowded and have limited resources. Instead, the are building Silk Road 2 because opportunity, resources, and empty land lie west of China and stretch toward the EU.
What will happen is that China will keep doing what it is doing - building islands, building Silk Road 2, buying foreign resources and companies - and will protest US spy planes -- but will not shoot at them because the Chinese do not want a shooting war, and have seen the US back down a number of times because the US cannot morally fire the first shot.
No real surprise if stupidity should start a war. How often was it started by intelligence (in the true sense of the word)?
"to doubt that US hegemony is the primary course of current stability.."
'Current stability', what turnip truck did this idiot fall out of?
Don't be fooled.
Like they did before with the bolsheviks and hitler, western elitists build up china to where it is now, quite deliberatly.
https://www.corbettreport.com/china-and-the-new-world-order-video/
There won't be a war with China. Uncle Sugar never tries bombing countries that can respond with nuclear weapons.
The last time he tried fighting an enemy capable of hitting targets on US soil was the War of 1812, which ended with the Canadians (!) burning DC to the ground. Uncle Sugar learned his lesson from that one.
Uncle is keeping his nukes not for uppity Chinamen but for uppity southerners who try defying DC again. Any attempt at a second American revolution or civil war would end in most cities in flyover America being reduced to radioactive ash---not a Samson so much as a Jonestown Option.
Anyway---it's the banksters' empire really. Uncle Sugar's just the muscle.
http://www.kcandassociates.org/radio/
Corporations are the empire, America is just the muscle to keep it toegther..
Fixed it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZrD2I6IaAU
Ruled by China or the USSA is the same disease. Let them destroy each other as long as it does not effect the rest of the world.We do not need blood suckers of any kind.
"To avoid a violent militaristic clash with China, or another cold war rivalry, the United States should pursue a simple solution: give up its empire."
Why ????
So china can take over the usa's role as world's leading empire and then we all have to live under the rules and behavior of the chinese communist party instead of the motley club of rotating deviants in the usa ?
I look at how the chinese regime rules in china, compare it to how the usa regime rules in the usa, and I conclude they both stink, but china's system stinks like really fresh highly aromatic pig shit, while the usa system stinks like old dry dog shit.
Murican trash, China is not interested in taking Murican "role." She has no such desires: thousands of years of her history clearly demostrate that point, you stupid, ignorant, Murican scum!
ask their neighbors you moron
Neighbors around South China Sea, you mean, hm, Murican idiot? I couldn't. And even if I could I wouldn't care just like you don't care about their interest Murican scum! And don't feign concern about the well-being of others, Murican scum, because you don't fool anyone -- least of all me! If those nations around Sourth China Sea cannot understand they are located in the region of China's domain and influence, then they will naturally have problems. But it is not your business to intrude into other nations affairs, Murican trash!
your parents - if you know them - must be living in shame knowing what a fool they produced
Retard, if Philippines, Japan or Australia (I guess you refered to them in your initial reply, for no other nations are Western allies in the region) keep causing problems by going along with your Murican transgressions in South China Sea, they are the ones who are going to pay the price for it. If those nations have will of their own, they will never allow themselves to be used for Murican gains and purposes,scumbag! And if they want to be used by Muricans like that, if they go along with Murican schemes, they will pay. It's very simple, you Murican idiot! Obviously moron like youself is having difficulty understanding such a very basic fact! Fucking retard!
Guardian! ffs! Even the most rabid communist news letters had more credibility than that Anglo propagandist trash!
Disintegration will come naturally for the so-called West once economy start imploding. Mother Nature will take care of that, so nothing to worry about.
Today is a record breaking day in one regard: 4.200 African Negroes came on European shores seeking "asylum." And by breaking the laws of formally "sovereign" countries like Italy, Greece and Spain, EU commision (those Eurocrats who are working for the Anglozionist banking cabal from City of London and Washington DC) will grant them the right to settle in countries of EU (imagine that: bureaucratic mercenary scum granting someone something which is not even theirs to give!) and those European "sovereign" states will have to provide for them. So, stupid members of EU whose sovereign rights are regularly violated by the AngloJewish cabal will now have to pay for those criminals and parasites -- Africano Niggers. And one African Nigger costs 28k euros per year, so you see why people of that abomination called EU have to pay taxes for!
It's so simple. Sit down at the table, speak like a normal human being, invest along with the others, behave like a respectable and sensible person, respect and be respected, get your piece of the cake same as the others.
But no. Is it because simple, straightforward honesty is above the 'Murikan mind's possibilities?
You obviously have no experience with dealing with the Chinese
Try and negotiate with them and all you will come away with is 'With#6 You Get Eggroll'
Their main weapon is confusion and sand bagging.
Until they get the answer they want they will drag on 'sitting at the table' until the second coming.
Before you post about China try living in China and doing business with them - then you will understand the true nature of the Chinese..............
We understand the nature of Chinese very well, Murican trash! Their nature is that of keeping their sovereignity and fighting for their natural rights, and we all - all sovereign people of this planet, that is; not mindless retards like yourself certainly - accept and respect that. China is not seeking to turn the world into one Empire to rule it like Murican scum is, and that is sometihng we also know very well, Murican idiot! Chinese way has always been that of trade, cooperation and respecting national sovereignty, unlike Western one which is based on theft, parasitism, transpressions and corrupting all entities they... you come into contact with, scum! Now fuck off, trash!
"You obviously have no experience with dealing with the Chinese. Try and negotiate with them and all you will come away with is 'With#6 You Get Eggroll'"
Everybody achieves dealing with the Chinese. They're investing everywhere, signing deals with just about everyone who will trade with them.
Worldwide, the 'Murikans are the only ones who can't. So maybe the problem is that your way of going about it is wrong, and that you're not seeing something obvious everybody else sees.
War is inevitable, the Washington Empire of Debt, Fraud and Chaos is broke with no gold.
The totalitarian, fascist Empire is dangerous because the criminal banksters will blow up the world rather than be brought to Justice. The poor, helpless brainwashed stupid American bastards will let it happen so they deserve being despised and hated by the rest of the world.
Look at all the degenerate filthy mouthed retarded and uneducated comments from “Americans” on ZH that hate “democracy” Ha. Ha. Ha.
There's something horrifying about those who vicariously and casually tout mass murder and destruction as a condition to getting their own way as the self-appointed leader of the entire world.
Sycophantic, hypocritical tantrums and delusional grandeur on a scale that's hard to fathom. If the Chinese or the Russians were in any way being unreasonable in their local affairs I'd feel differently but that has never been the case. On the contrary and it's with the usual heavy heart that my impressions of the US govt and its neocon/zionist handlers as a bunch of childish psychopaths are confirmed once again.
edit - sorry, posting from a new phone and it's gone stupid with the html. Fixed.
Another ridiculous article by 'ZH' chock full of spelling and grammar errors.
And yet 'ZH' professes to know the 'truth' and the answers to all the world's problems
If it helps the idiots that write theses articles any, the president of the United States is already giving away the 'empire'
Does that make you feel better 'ZH"?
And please, could you check your scripts when you write these senseless articles?
Your scripts and HTML really suck....
am I wrong in assuming you might have something more to add to the conversation than simply bashing ZH? granted it is the easy thing to do but it's not particularly substantive and really doesn't lend itself to much in the way of conversation.
then again your comment does at least suggest that you really haven't put much thought into the larger geopolitical situation and appear to take some kind of personal insult to the suggestion that Washington's days as the one and only purveyor of the way the world should be are coming to an end.
not sure why though, the PTB's don't give a shit about you or anybody you know and they certainly do not nor have they ever represented the best interests of we the people. further if you believe that any administration has ever done anything to "keep us safe" or serve the best interests of national security that I would recommend you go back and review the last 200 years of American history.
we the normal everyday citizens do great things, we made America what it once was, DC has done nothing more that start endless wars, kill, murder, rape and thieve the world over and might I add the managed to destroy the greatest middle class the world has ever known in a fraction of the time it took us to build it.
you seem so eager to defend Washington but have you ever considered we all might be better off without them?
No mention of the Petro-Dollar. The author is oblivious to the fact that our corporate oligarchs are running a protection racket for despotic gulf dictators in exchange for dollar-only oil and they're using DOD assets in the enforcement.
That's what America gets for being number 1. It can also maintain the dollar as the reserve currency of the world and get to print money to pay for it's imports that no one else get to do.
Our criminal oligarch rulers are also engaged in heroin drug running from Afghanistan and earlier from Asia's golden triangle in the 70s - also using DOD assets.
Our criminal oligarch rulers also take full advantage of being top dog with all their criminal scams from gold theft, market manipulation, human trafficing, prostitution,
involuntary organ donors, pedophilia and many more criminal enterprises that the rest of the world is onto and they are currently trying to escape from the exploitation.
America is going to get just what it deserves soon including the comotose sheeple who have been criminally negligent accomplaces.
Pretty sure Obama is already giving up the empire. What more can he do that he hasn't already done? Turn out the lights.
US Give up its empire? heh
WW3 SOON COMRADES
re How US And China Can Avoid A War..
For starters, it might help if the USSA would stop poking its Kosher-Kontrolled NeoCon-Nose into everyone else's business..
"To avoid a violent militaristic clash with China, or another cold war rivalry, the United States should pursue a simple solution: give up its empire."
People still don't get it. The DC US is not an empire, it is the front man and war dog of Zion's empire. A colony itself, being plundered and depleted for the benefit of Zion.
For those Americans that still don't believe, look around, as the evidence is everywhere. From rotting suburbia to the cesspool ghettos. From daily turds of propaganda to staged FUDD theater. From Walmart imported crap to chemicals heated fast and called food. To official murders caught on tape to mass treason denied as security for the masses. From grift protected, and mom and pops persecuted.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission..
I agree. Whether it's guns and pepper spray, or subtle social slavery and financial servitude, violence committed against the people is violence against the people, and must it be answered for.
China recalls history Britain and the US have failed to teach in schools......
http://what-when-how.com/western-colonialism/boxer-uprising-western-colo...
China has much bigger ambitions that being a regional hegemon. They have a clear long term plan that they want to supplant the USA and restore its former place as the center of the universe, where everyone else brought them the tribute. Today they collect tribute by fleecing foreign companies that salivate over the huge China market by forcing them to create 51% Chinese joint ventures where the foreign firm gets a thin slice of their market, they get access to all your technology, which they then take and compete against the very firms that thought they were making a strategic play in going to China.
The big discussion in China today is about how easily the USA can be made to step down and admit to a China centered world, where the rules will be written in Chinese and can be modified at will by the leadership of the communist party. So in print, in think tanks and lecture halls they ask the question: “Will the USA step down meekly like Great Britain, battered by WWII and broke, or will it have to be shoved aside”
The audacious claim to a "9 dashed line" is really a demand that all of Southeast Asia must recognize Chinese suzerainty over their internal affairs. Vietnam is in a position where it cannot launch a fishing boat without breaking the 9 dashed line. These countries are under enormous pressure. Australia was warned it should reconsider its security commitments with the USA. If you examine the map you will see that if these waters are considered Chinese territorial waters they would possess a stranglehold on all maritime commerce transiting though Asia. The Straits of Malacca will empty into a Chinese lake. It also upends hundreds of years of precedent and law and issues a direct challenge to the USA and all its neighbors. This may help to answer the question of whether the USA will go quietly and accept its position as subservient of China.
If anyone harbors any illusions about what a China centered world would look like from our perspective I will gad to sell them for a good price an authentic Rolex Watch bought on Nanjing Road when I get back from Shanghai in a few weeks’ time.
Sandman:
Hrmm... Nothing wrong with that article, balanced and such, but it more or less got taught to me as a kid. Why would you expect otherwise?
Regardless, if today Americans went into Chinese enclaves in America, and began slaughtering the foreign Chinese there... would China be ready to fight a war? Probably. It's a reasonable Casus Belli, don't you think? Try to think about it dispassionately without knee-jerk agendas. What's the point of obsessing over an old war?
How convienient that they forget the simplist of principles; that nature abhors a vacuum. If the US withdraws, who would they want to move in? China that slaughtered some 70 million of their own in the process of building the PRC? How about all the Tibetan s they killed? Or maybe the long standing enmity with Vietnam that they occupied for some 400 years?
Maybe the Russian who have thier own long history of genocides and mass deportations onto Siberia never to be seen again. Yeah those are real viable alternatives.
Rather than kissing the ass of the Chicoms or the new Russian imperialists we would be better served concentrating our efforts at restoring the authority and structures of the US Constitution to what the were originally intended. Such would to more to restore liberty and individual rights and hold the Chinese new "Greater east Asian co-prosperity sphere" and the revanchist Russian imperialism rev. 3 in check.
But don't wait to here it in ZH commentary. They're to busy ranting about Jews, Zionist and neo-cons to apply simple logic.
America's power lies in its military, and scarcely at all anywhere else.
When will America's military waken to its oath and refuse to obey illegal orders given from the owners?
Will it, or will it not. A lot hinges upon this choice, and loyalties of the military are not at all clear. Is it to the constitution, or is it to the chain of command?
China has one big problem with confronting the US. If the us should curtail even fraction of the cheap crap we buy from them, China will be faced with massive unemployment in an already restive population that is already weary of residing in virtual prison camps drawing slave labor wages. All the gold in the world won't pay for internal peace and the food they need to import to feed them. Seems like as with all empires the ambitions of the center are difficult to reconcile with the surrounding reality. As always, forcing the issue will lead to war a devastation.
fuck off