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The Most Confusing Reason Why Millennials Aren't Buying Houses
In “This Is What Happens When Millennials Try To Find A Job,” we discussed high youth unemployment rates and the difficulty many recent college graduates have in finding a job in today’s double-adjusted US economic “recovery.” We also noted that a lack of gainful employment opportunities and stagnant (at best) wage growth are forcing some millennials to delay “important life decisions … like buying a house.”
So while we were certainly not surprised to learn that excessive student loan and credit card debt were responsible for keeping many of America’s youth from buying their first home, we were surprised to discover that for millennials in around one third of US states, the chief impediment is apparently “not knowing how to start”...?
Draw your own conclusions.
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How about..."Vastly inflated cost of homes due to fascist government mandates and regulations."? Seems once you strip away all the bullshit propaganda, that is the root of the problem.
What's the income to price ratio nationally? In each of these regions?
Give it three years...prices will come down again: http://www.nbcnews.com/watch/cnbc/a-pricey-san-francisco-housing-market-...
They don't know how to buy houses now...pretty soon they won't even know how to buy food...
Food trucks will now be going to schools and random locations during summer break - not for students in summer school - but just to feed our nation's already overbloated, ignorant, fattie-mc-fat-fat kids. Fucking unreal:
http://eagnews.org/michelle-o-to-go-food-trucks-deliver-school-lunches-t...
"Yo Jamal, where da food truck?"
"Dunno man."
"Whodafuck gonna feed us? What do we do?"
1980: cost of brick house in south boston $60K. carpenter wage $25hr. cost of same brick house today $800K. carpenter's wage $50hr.
lesson: dont go into carpentry, go into brick laying?
Are you kidding! Dual internship in Carpentry and Brick Laying and build your own damn house!!
I've got 2 kids, aged 26 & 31 both making in excess of $60K per year.
Neither own a home.
Go figure.
"Not knowing how to start."
That's the same reason for them not having sex, right? They just text and play their Game Boys.
Besides the idiotic valuations, it's no longer a source of financial and community stability. Thank you ever raising property taxes, unlimited money fount bidding up everything, and absolutely decimated job market for destroying home ownership as a cornerstone of the American ideal. The reality today is you move where the work is, and a house is a serious detriment to mobility.
Hell, I'd like to see how its remotely possible starting out to even save up 20% down with a McJob, rampant inflation, and savings account that generates .0001% interest income.
Here in Vegas
20% down
Overpriced Homes
Living 2 feet from your neighbor
Small yard
Low paying jobs
Why wouldn't someone buy a home?
I actually have a friend that is extremely eager to get a home right now. I'm working overtime just to keep him out of one.
Most young people are broke dead dicks. They don't have the cash for a bicycle, never mind a house. Thank God for food stamps. At least we all can eat.
There are 20 MILLION empty houses in America. They should GIVE the things away. If you are willing to nut up to pay all the exorbitant taxes, fees, and utility bills the house should be a free bonus.
There are 20 MILLION empty dumps in America.
Agree with all the rest.
It's important to remember that Satan enjoys anal sex, so please try to avoid it. Thank you.
Hahahahahaha. Yeah.
Generz want everything given to them, property included.
TBTF's will never admit that defeat. That shit stays parked in "real estate owned" for some time to come. It is not part of inventory for sale.
Here is Bloomberg's 'big scare" take away close:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-28/not-buying-a-home-coul...
Sometimes I feel that anyone that uses a take away close should be euthanized.
Get on the mortgage debt treadmill, the 'merican chump way!
I came, I saw and I scampered (after 12 years though). Never bought a house (though I could have)....my guardian angel saved me.
Was a point, 2006, housing boom in full swing...wifey (then) and I BOTH NINJAS!
We zipped around the bay area looking at $1,000,000 dollar homes with an APPROVED LOAN....
Yeah, those were the days.
These days....
Guitar...different...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYhFoIWaR4k
2006 was the top. The drugs wore off and the bankster securities bundles were finally seen as the toxic, worthless filth that they made billions on. Aided in the complete, total fraud by Moody's, S&P and an army of semen lapping mortgage brokers some of whom would make $20k on a loan to their own mother's.
Annihilate all these scumbags.
Yeah, I still remember my friend's dad who lives in HK putting his entire pension plan money into " AAA+ Lehman Mini Bonds."
Lucky for him the HK gubmint bailed out their citizens [ as opposed to USA where only banksters got bailouts] and he recouped 80-90% of his losses on that Wall Street scam.
+ no water & no future.
+ no electricity through the generator at the dam.
They should start making $7k a month working from home for BlowingWinter
I told my kids I'd disown them if they bought a home. After the boomers die and China stops buying they should have the pick of the litter. Both aren't interested anyway and the last thing they want is a McMansion.
I think it wise not to shackle oneself to a depreciating asset that is a headache to maintain. I wish I hadn't made that dumb mistake. If I had to do it over, I'd buy acreage and stick a mobile home or build something simple on it.
Miffed
That's my plan. Hopefully, I'll be able to skirt some of the legal headaches as long as I put my home on wheels, and don't claim it as a residence.
I was looking at one of these...
Looks like an orgasmatron...enjoy yourself :)
it says they're coming out with a camper version next year. That would be cool!
And get a reverse mortgage on it to pay for food!
Does that thing float? Can it core a apple? The propeller is upside down.
It looks like someone took the wheels off an airstream trailer.
...but, but where would I put all my stuff!?
I love going to links that try too track me instantly and lock up my limited resources.ald
does it come with a glittery one piece outfit?
!!
I was making more than that not too long ago (it wasn't a stable job unfortunately).
The cost of living index kills purchasing power. People hate me, not just because I refuse to pay more than $800/month in RENT for something less than extravegant - well yes they do. But they hate me because I'm such a bitch about it, this is why they love to prey on the younger kids whom they believe are nieve.
Nieve are the many self loathing "insecure" gold digging cookie cutter middle class trollies of white priveledge that was never developed any applied critical thinking skills of their own that exceeds whata 5th grader can figure out... (and the excuse is that them 5th graders are "smart") and they think that they have to pay premium because they're in caifornia.
I'm FROM San Diego and the pretentious not too attractive hipster goofs whose "prelaw" undergrad is no better than a typical "Mrs." major at SDSU - the obvious carpet bagging douchenozzles are telling ME! That I have to pay for my parking (when it was free before) because "San Diego is an expensive city"- it wasn't before Dereguation dingbat. As a matter of fact, it was the native San Diegans gawking the hardest at the counterfeit subprime infused real estate ponzi scheme.
Clinton hype made a mess with this divide that technically divides politics and Hollywood.
Here's a hint. POLITICS IS SHOWBIZ FOR ***UGLY PEOPLE***. And I can see why these tools are in politics.
Nobody discriminated against the gays until they wanted us to discriminate against them.
it's funny to watch what douchehags they are. It's all over California and the people who were born and raised here, I guess just decided to make good use out of them and exploit them for everything their parents pay for. :)
I mean, you can tell everyone that you spent $25k on a wedding when you spent $5k-no hate but everybody in L.A. and even all over CA is an actor, be flattered that they're trying to impress you IF that. But no. $25k for a wedding? They'll actually up that! IF they have the money...and this is why people lose their money IN RETAIL (not real estate, gambling, record contracts, con artists, theft, or shopping on Rodeo Drive yet)....
It gets even BETTER than that.
The pretentious "compassionates" use other people's money or their nepotistic connectiosn to come up with severely high rents when the cost of living index for REAL people severey limits their options to find a BASIC house in a SAFE neighborhood which are human rights. Which, in the free market, be made easily available to them.
But NO!
They didn't bring us beautiful people, the Europeans, ASians and Africans did all of that.
They didn't bring great music, food, NADA. We got stiffed.
Except for the nasty tweaker trash, they can take their "compassionate" illegal sympathizing tweaker loving selves back to teh shithole that they robbed everyone from to afford the excessive rents out here.
These entitled pretentious hipster turkeys flatter you by asking you if you have coke!
Just because I'm a minority doesn't mean I have anything.
I WORK for a living with greenscreen computers- platforms and numbers. Do I look like I have the time for other people's orders from Columbia? Sorry- Columbia's prolly empty anyways, try again later when I'm being paid by you for MY time.
Also, they're lacing everything with meth so fuck no! I don't even do coke. Even if I have the money (which I do not).
I am soooo not buying your cocaine when you chose to blow all of your money on overpriced rent/mortgage. Not when I have very little money to live on in the first place- fucking hipster white trash assholes.
Go hang out with your yuppie guppie freaks on their revolving credit mortgage. They have your mind candy.
Notice- IF they have to pay with their own money? they're THE biggest mooches ever.
The irony is that Humbolt county is known for it's hipster or hippie population which may or may not be synonymous with the Occupy Rent/Wall STreet movement- and the housing prices in Humbolt are through the roof. I'm going nowhere near there -they obviously have a revolving line of credit with Marissa Mayers' Yahoo's investor money for their recreational mind candy.
And that ponzi scheme is almost as rich as the tatted up kooks driving a gas guzzling lifted hatch back truck to the AMPM and BUMMING for gas money!
Or before the tweakers chase you around in circles for "change"... and a knuckle sandwich.
Maybe it's better than them just pulling a gun on you at a gas station- so fucking tired of this. If they're not mugging you with real estate or the hospitals--- people just don't let up and this is why I left San Francisco.
Like Gen Y-some millenials got smart. Some made it into the military.
Some who were LUCKY and wanted to buy a house over anything else moved "back east" where houses are still REALISTICALLY affordable (they were the prettier people who liked themselves).
"Back East" somewhere have houses that cost $120k when the workers make at least $60k/year. THAT's realistic.
That $120K house costs $1.2 million in Santa Monica. For no reason at all since SM is a glorified shithole.
Some left the country. Some did get stupid and "bought" a house in Mexico without being born a Mexican citizen.
Even Zuckerberg didn't pay for his house in cash.
Isn't that whole thing about to slideee into the ocean? Who in their retarded head would pay that much money for a house in the middle of a drought of droughts?
Agricultural land with water in Harrison County, Texas will run you about $3,000 to $5,000 per acre. Agricultural land around Modesto, California will run you about 10x that much. Granted, there are more challenges to farming here and the land is not as fertile, but things are not 10x as difficult.
Besides that, we have honeybees.
Before things go bone dry in Stanislaus County, CA, I hope some of the more productive growers from out there come plant satellite farming locations here. I'd hate for to see farming families lose their way of life.
You will enjoy this comment on the NYTimes in response to a right wing journalist David Brooks who I think coined the term BoHo, telling us to be gratefull for a shiny dented tin pot:
Hey Norris is literate and so allowed to be really very nasty!
HeyNorris
Paris, France 15 hours ago
It's becoming alarmingly apparent that Mr. Brooks sees himself as Professor Pangloss, and us Tonstant Weaders as his Candides. Well, this Candide is ready to fwow up.
Brooks-as-Pangloss would have us little folk believe that we need only follow his prescriptions of morality, courage, spirituality and of course voting Republican to lead our small unexamined lives into the best of all possible worlds. Never mind that the Republicans he shills for lack morals, courage and spirituality - unless you count pandering to hard-right evangelicals as a form of spirituality.
The Panglossian view is that when you have no health care, or your Social Security benefits are reduced, or your 401k ends up in the pockets of oligarchs, or you're arrested (or worse) simply for being black, thats OK, all is for the best. Candide ultimately concluded that the Panglossian view is rooted in flawed logic and empty rhetoric, that evils exist that cannot be justified, and sends Pangloss packing, saying "we must cultivate our garden".
I can't exactly send Brooks packing (except in my fantasies), but I can certainly reject his tin-pot notion that a life of being dull, bent and beaten is all for the best. Every one of us can, and do, shine when we seek ways, however small or large, to care as much for those around us as we do for ourselves. We must cultivate our communal garden.
Brooks is the tool who thought that Our Dear Leader would make an excellent President because of the sharp crease in his trousers.
But they probably have the latest to-die-for electronic devices with unlimited data plans!
They're smart not to rent from the government. All property belongs to some government as long as it carries an ad valorem tax. Rent from somebody so you can drag up and haul ass at a moment's notice. When I was single I could collect all my stuff and pack it in my Army duffle bag in about 15 minutes, throw it my trunk and tool it to the next fertile honey hole.
Now, it would take me a year to consolidate, liquidate and move out.
I built two and sold them 4 years later. Made a lot of money. Own my own house #3 now. Did all the work myself except for digging the basement hole and backfilling. Carpenter by trade.
Lesson: get the fuck out of Boston
I'd be really happy with $50 an hr.
No movement in wages in 8 yrs
what was the Money supply in 1980 - considerably less than 2015?
More like $15 an hour for carpenter now, not 50, the only carpenters making 50/hour work for govt.
JFC....we are now at a point where people have kids and expect somone else to feed them. Game over man.....game over.
So neatly divided.
I think millenials know exactly how to start, then thing is they might also know too well how it ends...
I think it would be misleading to take that response "Not knowing how to start" at face value. It's like saying you don't know how to start having a bowel movement: you need not know how it works; you just DO it. Be assured that there is a vast armada of real estate agents, rubbing their hands together, who are more than happy to "Take you through the process."
Ergo: Sorry, but "Not knowing how to start" doesn't cut the mustard as a meaningful response. I think a lot of those surveyed simply checked that response out of convenience, as it frees them from having to select another answer that would clarify their financial condition. It's the response I would select. More surveyors need to MTOFB.
NOT !!
At a largish telco in the '90s, there were a number of otherwise highly educated engineers with little in the way of real-life skills - first time potential home owners without a clue.
A savvy mortgage broker offered a series of lunch-and-learn sessions and within 6 weeks, over 100 home sales were finalized as the process was explained without a lot of mumbo-jumbo. Arrange the money first, then go shopping for a good home.
Of course if one only deals with real estate agents, one deserves to be ripped.
I call fabricated bullshit on your story proofreder. You must be some loan flunky to come up with that. There isn't an engineer alive with a pulse rate over 20 that doesn't understand math and interest.
Give an engineer 6 months tutoring and he can build his own house and finance it without some cockatoo's help. However, I do like your clever handle.
Good explanation. I wont buy a home because we're the first to get axed when shit gets rocky. After a long conversation with some of my peers (5 millenials), we found out each of us were laid off from our previous jobs. Boomers wonder why we 'job hop' - my answer is: I'm lying to you so you dont draw a line through my name. Boomer management drove the project into the ground when they decided to bet against logic on their strategy.
Im not tying myself to a single geographic region when there are 10-20 nearby openings that I am qualified for at any given time because I dont know when Im going to be on the job hunt again.
$200,000 for the physical house and land...
$400,000 in interest payments to banksters over 30 years...
Total amount paid - $600,000...
Added bonus - debt-slave for life...
Towards the end, your house is badly in need of repairs and amidst a demographic of newly arrived Third Worlders.
Now what was the question again?
We'll said.
Paid off a 30 year mortgage in 8 years and have been free for 15 years.
Recent ex-wife went nuts and don't know if I had an Amerikan Dream or Nightmare.
Fuck this shit.
I think I'd rather have a nutty ex-wife than to still owe a bunch of Wall Street usurers untold federal reserve servitude notes. Kudos for having the fortitude to pay off that debt. I hope your ex recovers.
Anyway, I wish you all the best.
Thanks Bach.
Going Galt may be the best way out for me.
If people all decided to buy little run down shacks fix them up and live in them at $60K a pop the banksters and government would have a hissy fit about it. I am the bad guy for telling people *NEVER* buy a $500K + House, but the young all run out as fast as they can and take mortages and debt to infinity..
That's what we did, the guy I bought my house from got it in a sheriff's auction with the idea that he was going to give it to one of his kids, who had other plans apparently. I knew what he paid for it, and we basically paid him for the work he did on it which wasn't much. Since then, nobody else has touched the place except for me and the HVAC guy. I learned how to do everything from basic plumbing, laying tile, flooring, windows, roofing, rewiring, you name it. The wife and I generally agree that if we can't do it ourselves it's probably not really worth having.
We also pay cash for used cars and drive them till the wheels fall off. Most people in the rural area where I live at least grudgingly respect frugality but I sill get a little jazz from the more uppity fuckheads until I point out how much more money I have in my pocket from not getting screwed by two 30k+ car notes and 200k+ mortgage. Living within your means just makes sense to me, it's a shame people have become so fucking dumb and short sighted, especially when it comes to their own financial well being.
Peacock has to have bling plummage and a better peacock nest to attract that wonderful peacock pussy, otherwise, pud pounding time. If it takes that to attract the peacock, she'll always be looking for a bigger nest with toys that flies and floats and a pussy wagon that will run 160 mph. I ain't got to the big stuff like the adornments from Needless Markup yet. Poor bastard.
plus if you plan it out carefully you can kill the nutty wife and have a pretty good chance of getting away with it. Kill a banker and you suddenly end up on every 10 most wanted list out there.
esprit: You should be happy to have a, 'nutty ex-wife.
For if she was not nutty she would have taken your mortgage free houe and kicked youto the curb during the divorce.
This would be true if you had a ~9.4% interest rate on the 30 year mortgage.
More like $200,000 for house + $150,000 in interest -- around 4.15% today.
Many people like living in a house VS an apartment but if you do rent a house - you are still paying the cost - most landlords want to make a profit.
Or are we comparing living in your parents basement?
But you can pick up and leave tomorrow with little to no consequences.
You could do that as an owner too I suppose, but bye bye downpayment and credit.
I'm not sure if they can jail you for unpaid property taxes but that wouldn't be fun either.
Sure - if you think you will be moving every few years then renting will be better.
I have lived in the same house for 28 years - paid off 20 years ago -
Property taxes and insurance run about $700 a month add in another $1,000 for maintenance and repairs (including roof - water heater -other major stuff averaged out) - but even if I rented I would still be paying for these items as part of my rent. I know of a similar house a few blocks over that rents for $4,500 a month.
I think I am ahead just on the monthly bill - plus the house worth a few hundred thousand if I sell.
Sorry, api... I know I may have exaggerated on the interest part. However, most people do not complete their full mortgage payment schedules or else they sell and begin anew before the "purchase" is fully covered.. As you know... all of the early payments made on loans of this size go toward the interest and very little toward principal. In this way, I think my estimate of 2-to-1 interest over principal is a pretty good guess as to an overall average.
(But even if it were $150,000 in interest... isn't that unbelievable? I mean, think about it... it cost almost as much to pay for the materials and man-power to build you home as to the useless loan shark who had to do nothing more than push a button to create the "money" he loaned you. This system is beyond criminal.)
Do you think that renters avoid paying interest?
It is built into the rental payment - even when no loan is outstanding a landlord will factor in his cost of capital.
Rent covers the cost of the home, property taxes, insurance, interest and maintenance - plus a profit.
I guess you could save up $200K and pay cash - but then where do you live while you are saving?
My daughter bought a nice 3BR house in a good neighborhood about 3 years ago - her payment is less than what she would pay in rent on a shitty 2 bedroom apartment.
The bottom line - is you have to live some place -a house isn't for everyone - but it is a good choice for many.
Yes! Well said Bach! Don't forget to add in the ever escalating property taxes over same time period! Presto! You're now close to a million! :-)
http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Lake_Las_Vegas-Henderson/4890/
It seems it may not take three years in some locales.
Can things really be this regional?
This seems very odd. . .
Live in your parents home until they die.....Problem solved!!!
Little known fact of why they didn't build basements down South for a long time. Of course, you can always expand the "backroom" and the youngins can live there.
pods
'Family Rooms' are generally on wheels South of the Mason-Dixon, except for West Virginia, where a single wide is good living, a double wide is for snobby ass kissers.
A double wide in the woods with about 12 tons of cold blow and a satellite dish don't sound bad, especially with no yard and a bush hog to rent. Get a good wife from WVA and 3 or 4 dogs and head for the Gulf Coast. Get a couple of 4WD SUVs with all terrains, 5.7 L, with winch, and make sure to have a well and septic tank, electricity is good, hard to drive 12 tons on solar. Fuck a bunch of permits.
Get proficient in raising a garden and brewing a great beer, not that home-brew goat piss.
Uh, how deep does one have to dig down to "stack" out of range of ground penetrating radar?
LIVING LARGE!
SURPRISE!
Reverse mortgage for the win. :-O
How did you think mom and dad could afford all those vacations?
I am betting a lot of parents have reverse mortgages and have not told their kids - when they die the house is not part of the estate.
i'm still waiting for my parents to grow up and leave home
I think it is supposed to be kind of like a trendy versioin of a pie chart. It is not done well.
Yup, there's a reason behind it that's related to demographics as income and savings are to age.
Homes still cost the same, I mean a $80000 house at 6% is the same as a $180000 house at 3% right??
My kid bought a shit shack for cash in the burbs. Is he becoming a an defiant wanting no fucking debt.
No milli with half a brain wants to play in a rigged game that leaves them the bagholder.
So many peeps made money flippin and speculation on homes. It just didn't work out for everyone.
A bad idea for all the wrong reasons. But, CB can only circle jerk cash thru debt.
Do you really think the millinials understand the rigged game? the "milli with half a brain" I would guess is about 5% of the milli population.
A very small percentage does, same as the rest of the population. Why would those who do see it, want to work hard for a company that will just toss them aside when they get old? They saw where it got their parents...
Two of my 20 something kids think I am a moron/freak for not being fully invested in the stock market. They have mutual funds and think they are geniuses for making good returns.
Define "good returns."
If they haven't tried to sell the stocks yet, they haven't gained anything. Since there's such a liquidity crunch...
Good luck to your children, Flinstone.
They are bound to learn a good lesson soon
When I was a kid, my dad used to sometimes call me lazy, because I wouldn't jump up and immediately expend effort doing the things he thought I should be doing. Later on as I got older and gained a deeper understanding of myself, I found that there are clear, logical reasons why my gut instinct wants to lead me in a particular direction, which in many cases may not be consciously apparent until much later after the fact. There were always good reasons for my behavior, even if I didn't consciously understand it.
As one of the older millenials, who is well aware of all the facts and details, I can assure you that while many of my peers don't have the same level of detailed understanding of the how's and why's of everything, they DO know on a deep level this system is at the end of its rope. This strongly influences their choices and behavior.
I was getting a haircut one day about a year ago, with some hair stylist about my age (early 30s) at a generic hair salon, and out of nowhere she mentioned that she thought WW3 was imminent. This is some random gal out of the backwoods of Alabama saying this. Doesn't read ZH, doesn't know the details, but for whatever reason, knew deep down that WW3 will be here soon. **And that it would be our doing, not some foreign country.**
It's interesting that the "not knowing how to start" excuse is exclusive to the Southeast, and nowhere else. Everywhere else it's some variation of "not enough money to buy into the game." In the South it's basically, "don't know what to do."
Look at the ethnic groups which dominate certain parts of the country and you might find some clues. Scots are the #2 richest ethnic group in America, just behind the Russians. These people acquire their wealth in two different ways: Russians are good at making money; Scots are good at not spending it, roughly speaking.
This is because the Scot mind "evolved" in a resource-poor region where things were scarce and had to be conserved. Despite lack of resources, they couldn't just rest on their laurels and live a simple life, or they would inevitably be invaded from the north or south. So they were forced to learn to "keep up with the Joneses" as best they could with the resources at hand, frugally and without waste.
(This also explains why the English, whose thought patterns evolved in richer lands——and who have historically dominated the Eastern Establishment——are so wasteful in their extravagance. Historically, they could *afford* to be wasteful, and it gave them a competitive advantage for a time....which is now reversing in favor of the more frugal-minded peoples, as the entire world in general and the USA in particular face the consequences of oil depletion.)
I know at least one of those midwesterners who has $100,000 in debt for an engineering degree of questionable value. (When one objectively weighs the true value of things, of course.) He's a German. Germans are authoritarians who believe in and buy into a "system." He bought in, and is paying for it. I'm part German (among many other ethnic groups) but largely a Scot. I'm debt-free.
The South is full of Scots, and hybrids of them with other like-minded folks such as Cherokee (*raises hand*) who have gone through 150+ years of hard times, since Lincoln's War, and the Trail of Tears. Like Alabama sang in Song of the South, "Somebody told us Wall Street fell...but we were so poor, we couldn't tell."
We have grandparents and great grandparents who have only recently died off, who not only lived through hard times, but prospered and succeeded in raising large families, and who instilled in their children knowledge of skills like farming, hunting, fishing, canning, carpentry, welding, etc, how to make do and survive with limited resources, and to buy quality stuff and maintain it so it lasts.
I remember my granddad cursing to himself after returning from the parts store, where he'd bought a belt for his VW bug, and found out the price had gone up a dollar. I know exactly how he must have felt. One time me and my cousin opened up his 55 gallon emergency water drum and splashed some of the water out. That's the one and only time my granddad ever belted my ass.
All across the country everyone else is eager to jump into the game; down here people still know that the South was right and Lincoln was wrong, and despite the strong pressures from mainstream society to push us into their corruption and wickedness, which are certainly having an effect, above all we do believe in God and in righteousness and we will sooner reject the system than embrace it.
That's why kids in the South "don't know where to start" buying a house. Many of them have not yet consciously connected the dots enough to realize that their dads and uncles buying enough ammo to fight WW2 every few days IS the start.
2 BIG reasons that "priced to raality" realestate will take a long time to occur-
real estate is the best quality collateral available for central banks to undergird their derivative house of cards
the entire muni-bond market is dependent upon current valuations yielding adequate properrty tax revenue streams
When real estate tanks -the entire world comes down
Fair point. The currency dies first. This is why the DJIA and S&P keep rising. It's not that you're "richer." It's just bigger numbers as paper devalues.
they may not know it, but they are lucky not to be able to buy a house. once this fabricated recovery comes crashing down most of the present owners will be foreclosed upon anyway.
What exactly will they do with all those houses? Seriously, becasue if you say move the third worlders in, bad things might happen.
they will essentially rent them back to the former owners.
http://nypost.com/2015/05/28/man-falls-to-death-outside-luxury-building/
Facist government mandates and regulations don't help but are certainly not the root of the problem. The root of the problem, the cause of vastly inflated cost of homes is the One Bank that, over hundreds of years has managed to put itself in the position of creating national currencies from nothing. Currencies created soley through debt issuance require an ever expanding money supply to pay the interest due - if a currency ever begins to contract, the entire fiat based, fractional reserve ponzi scheme implodes. Governments require ever increasing real estate prices because tax rates are based on real estate 'value'. It all hinges on real estate, which cannot possibly go up too much more because it's not affordable at today's levels. Take cover, this entire government/banker/corporate shit pile is going down.
Ummm....wrong.
Amen. And the fascists are the local realtors and builders who dominate every City and County government, and institute building and zoning codes which require minimum home sizes that are way bigger than a "starter couple" or "starter individual" needs or wants to pay for. There was a day when a man couldn't run for USA President unless he could brag that he had built a log cabin. (Remember? Abe Lincoln GREW UP IN a log cabin, and studied by candle light.) Well, a log cabin is pretty small and EXTREMELY basic. Today no City or County would LET YOU build a log cabin. THAT'S fascism, IMHO. :-(
Give the kids a bit more credit: they know the fucking shit is still over priced. The inflated values the EZ $$$$ years "manufactured" are still not normalized. 12 - 13 years of EZ $$ ending in 2008 does not go away quickly.
Why not? Becausre having 75% of home owners under water is not acceptable to TBTF's. They might have to be nationalized at that point
29 hours at $10/per,
local houses at about $400,000.
Hellstheproblem? We'll get right on that with the new maff.
Plus, my neighbors kids graduated with high GPAs in STEM areas and have moved to three different cities in the last 6 years for different and better jobs. Yutes who are qualified and talented don't stay in one place or at one job anymore [like Grampa did] since they are almost always getting a better offer once the employers understand their value. One kid moved from Dallas to Houston to LA to SF within 5 years all for higher pay and better benefits each time. I don't know how this will work out once they get married, have kids of theri own, etc.
Most non-tech employed folks don't realize it, but salary is often a function of supply/demand ... but with STEM an employer often wants very specific combinations of skills/experience/education and because their particularly combination of needs is not highly liquid, they pay a higher salary to get positions filled.
I used to work in semi-conductor manufacturing at one time and that is a whole world unto itself. The education is a foundation, but a year or two on the job provides the experience required. This works great while skills are in demand, but if demand craters, your specialized in something no one gives a shit about anymore.
The field is much more of a rat race than folks realize and many STEM employees today may not have the bright future they think they will have. I am always evaluating my skills, market trends, and now put my chips (time/career) on things I think are essential to the economy and don't outsource well. I gotta stay in the saddle for another 25+ years ... then I can slack off a bit ...
Regards,
Cooter
Most non-STEM people don't realize how dreadful things have been in the STEM sector. I've seen new grads, often the top of their class, submit thousands of resumes, only to receive barely a few callbacks or replies. Low-ball offers are the norm, not the exception, and starting compensation is often less than it was 15 years ago. Practically nobody in STEM actually earns enough to afford home ownership at traditional metrics (no more than 3X income). And yes, people with deep skillsets in very specific areas are shunned if the jobs don't exist in those areas for whatever reason. Happens especially at the Masters/PhD level where graduating with out of favour skills is pretty much the kiss of career death.
Masters/PhD right out of school was a bad career move back when I graduated which was before the tech bubble. There are some exceptions, such as careers in academia or research, but not many. The reality is that a Bachelors is fine, get some real experience, then go back for a Masters/PhD as necessary. School is just a foundation anyway, real OTJ is always required.
In fact, it is often a unique blend of experience and education that makes the bucks, but it isn't a cookie cutter recipe by any measure.
Regards,
Cooter
Everybody in my office is a contractor. When we need specialized training, we design a contract and post it. Nobody spends much time under a particular roof for long, and you absolutely must see to your own financial security. Nobody gives pensions anymore (never mind benefits), and those that do are regarded with suspicion (under-reported under-funding).
It won't work out. You, I and everyone else here knows that as well. Fundamentals in place aren't conditional with the inflation alone to allow that to happen ever, plus there is far too much debt floating around and hiding under rocks. Truman's great works only works for a single generation, then the 'inheritance' that happens afterwards isn't as awesome as it sounds when considering the work force is already deeply in the hole. Right now the obvious overhead that can balance things back to 'okay' levels, remove the Federal level entirely and let that corporate strawman inherit the debt to declare chapter 11. That is how the USA can do a debt jubillee on public and private debt. The states have the right to succeed given by their constitution and the US constitution and it allows to deny payment on the block grants to forward the declared liability back to the issuer. Because it was constructed that way because the US forefathers understood the Achilles heel in the British system and watched it happen with the French revolution.
(Option 1)
That's why the USA was setup as a FEDERAL entity with four layers. Each layer acts independently of each other and they can pull the escape cord anytime when it's required with a majority vote on the state side senatorial caucus (that's the purpose of the Senate, State or otherwise) plus dump their debt back on to the federal corporate entity to that strawman and keeps the stateside economy in check with the inter-state trade policies already in place to allow transport of goods and road services (you know the weight stations? That's part of it).
Same thing in Canada btw. If Canada wants a Jubillee, it would require the Federal level go tits up for 7 years on a Chapter 11 by getting the worthless Senate here to pull the thumb out of it's ass and switch from being the Federal Government of Canada to The Dominion of Canada operating as provinces by their own trade agreements which are already in place.
OR
(Option 2)
Adopt Bitcoin, migrate the money people have like savings/pensions/whatever then dump all the debt into it, let the decimal place on the right hand side slide ( .0000000001 ----> continues this way with BTC/Satoshi). Then there is a record of the debts as migrated from one place to another and it can get paid off pretty quickly to reset the economic system
Option 1 will take years, a fuck tonne of lawyers and everyone knifing each other about nickels and dimes.
Option 2 will take months and save the pension systems and give the accountants something to do to properly inventory all the debt accrued plus the economy is still moving.
Pick how fast you want the bandage ripped off.
I, for one, refuse to use bitcoin.
"29 hours at $10/per, local houses at about $400,000. Hellstheproblem? We'll get right on that with the new maff."
No problem if 6 people per household work those hours and slave-wages.
Time to kick the kids off the video games, TV and iToys, and send them to work. It'll be just like in the good ol' days of the Industrial Revolution, in jolly ol' England.
If that doesn't work, just turn the grandparents into Soylent Green, and take over their homes. Is this a great country, or what? /s
Yeah! Time for them to get a job selling video games, TVs and iToys!! Oh wait!! :-)
Are you the 29.5 hour guy? Where did he go?
Sorry was finishing up my night stocking shift at home depot what did I miss?
"Important Life Decisions" like buying a house lol.
EVERYONE must buy a house in their lifetime, it is the law.
the term 'modern-day homesteading' springs to mind.
funny that in the context of ZH prepper culture that term doesn't come up more often.
Maybe when they look at credit card, student loan, and no money to save for a down payment, the answer is truly "I don't know how to begin".
Like driving over those one way tire spikes, once headed down the road to school, clothes and no cash, there's no way back without serious damage.
I'm grateful that in my day, things were a lot less unforgiving, a lot more opportunity was available.
I like the suspicious geographic continuity to the results of their analysis, it just makes it that much easier to write off the results as the work product of revolving door BLS anal cysts at Carrington Home Loans.
That map is just the artist's impression, right?
I think I'll create an app, if millennials can push a button to buy a house, they'll all be buying houses.
Plus, they can get digital cereal.
I live in the Dirty South and I own a quadplex with four 1 br 1 bath rentals. All are rented by smart upwardly mobile millenials that have good jobs (2 community college teachers, a programmer, and a journalist) and should be buying homes. They pay about $700 a month for rent when you can easily buy a nice starter home with 2br 2baths for $600 a month. I'm like wtf?? Anecdotal i know, but these kids don't have debt, they just don't have the desire or interest to buy a home...
T-Nutz. They couldn't unfold a ladder or do any repairs of sunnificance. But aside from that they will be mobile for sometime. I say good for them, enjoy life outside bullshit fake ownership.
correct... they're DINKs and mobile and have no need to be tied down to a 15-30 year slog through mortgage payments and property taxes... blah blah but no equity blah blah mortgage interest tax writeoff blah but still, they're better off hoarding their cash and paying rent until the little ones start popping out...
Please add the costs of ownership to your $600/month assumption.
Oh nevermind, it's not like anything on this website is fucking accurate anyway.
I live in a "hip" city, obviously some neighborhoods are better than others, but you can easily find a good house for 100k here. Many Californians are moving here after they sell their 400k of the same size and quality and put the other 300k in the bank. Do the math. I wasn't saying there weren't other costs, I own property, I know the drill.
Yes, yes, the hip, happening landlord with the big bank account. We know.
Look here dumb fuck, since you are mathematically challenged, 4x700=2800x12=33,600. Sounds great right??
Now time to learn to subtract. prop taxes=-2k, insurance=-2k, legal=-1k, maintenance=-7k, vacancy rate=-2k total -14k
Now time for some more subtracting! income tax -5k
now pay your mortgage on your 200k "investment" -15k
Now you can take your test. Question: How much does the happening high rolling landlord with the big bank account get to keep??
some of you people are beyond stupid
You get to keep the house, ass.
What do I win?
The payoff comes with someone else paying off the property for you after 20 years, as 15 years is the longest mortgage you should take on an investment property, but you will need to borrow another 5 years worth for upkeep along the way.
After 15 years at a 3% average annual price increases you will have a house worth nearly $40000. If you put 20% down originally then you have made 10x your money over the 20 years. Lets say you did this instead of putting away $10 k a year in the markets. You could have purchased 9-10 homes with half of them paid off with nice cash flows. Remember that rents also go up with inflation while mortage payments are generally fixed. After 20 years your rents will have doubled if you are keeping the place up. There can be huge money in rental real estate. You just can't be dumb about it and you must have a long term vision and the ability to not lose the place do to financial hardship.
Income tax? Most income tax doesn't come until depreciation is used up or the place is sold in my experience. At that point it is taxed at a capital gain.
rental income is reported on your income tax.
Do you mind saying where? I advise students, and many of us get tired of having no good answers.
And if he doesn't tell you specifically where that is you'll knowing he's just trolling.
$100K house in a hip city? Sounds ridiculous.
Might be a "dip" city.
Damn cell phones are hard on the spelling challenged.
I'm a gen X-er and we learned to spell the old fashioned way... spelling bee's.
Come check it out Castro! We even got spots for Commies like you! Don't call T-NUTZ a troll fool! I been rollin ZH local since 08...
I don't know the city at all, but it appears there are some homes going in that range ($100K). What do these neighborhoods look like is the real question? Many neighborhoods there are twice that price.
http://www.trulia.com/home_prices/Tennessee/Chattanooga-heat_map/
And BTW, I've been here at ZH over 5 years myself, so you should know I'm not a commie. It's my birthday (Bay of Pigs day) .
I will be rollin through on my way from Ohio to Atlanta soon.
Chattanooga, TN.
Thanks. Been through it, but never stopped to look around.
I'll make sure I do on the next trip.
I can also recommend Greenville, SC and Asheville, NC. Hip spots, nice mountains, still afordable compared to just about anywhere out West or up North.
They don't know what property tax is . That alone would keep them from buying. Thats iPad, gopro money
...or they have no faith in having a stable job and don't want to risk owning a home in that environment.
The very fact that they're upwardly mobile is the problem.
Ask millenials with their shit together if they know what job they'll have or where they'll be living in 7 years. None of them will have an answer -- this economy has forced them into a hyper-flexible lifestyle where they may have to drop everything and relocate to another state to maintain or improve their salary. No sane person in this situation is going to tie themselve to a home.
The non-mobile ones, well, they're making minimum wage. They can't afford shit anywhere.
Being able to relocate for work is probably THE most important thing anyone can do to remain economically viable.
Local city council goes BK due to pensions and jacks taxes? Move. Same with county/state? Move. Employer goes tits up and lays off half the staff with more coming? Move. And so on.
This also means not buying a bunch of shit, including in many cases furniture. When I moved to AK I did it in a four door sedan and rented a mostly furnished apartment. I still don't own much in the way of furniture and could easily pack my two trucks with everything I own and hit the road again.
Everyone in office treats their tax base like a fucking rental car. The only power I got is voting ... with my feet.
Regards,
Cooter
Much of my life I made sure I had no more possessions than I could fit in the back of my Plymouth. That's how I moved. One way trip and done. Collected thrown out furniture and my employers were often kind to donate office stuff to help me get settled. Even though I now have a family and the house is full of just I make sure to have no more than a trunk worth of valuables, ready to discard the rest at any given time.
My most valuable assets are information related - a hard drive full of portfolio pieces. Another one full of personal memorabilia and a few souvenirs from the 50's. The rest is consumer junk that I can repurchase anywhere if I have to.
If you have kids, take'em out camping. Bring the absolute minimum. Ditch the cell phones. Show'em how little is needed to survive. Live in a tent for a week with no modern comforts. Those memories will be engraved in the their brains forever.
Explain to them that things that are bought have no value. The most important assets are the unique things you produce with your own hands. An old letter, a sketch, a sculpture, a quilt, a circuit board are worth more than an HDTV. As you get older you'll never regret not making a purchase. You will regret wasting your time on stupid shit or pointless purchases. I look back and can only think of things I bought and could've done without.
lol, down where i am there's an upscale furniture store called Rhodes furniture. Always told people I had Roads furniture - side of the road,that is
...or move away from hip ever increasing inner city crime and potential riots thanks to political divisiveness (think Baltimore). .....to which they voted in the political clowns in the first place to assuage their liberal guilt and align themselves with the media/Hollywood elite :-)
1. Buying a home in the US, where Private Sector jobs have a very volatile job security factor, IS a deterrent. Even if you could buy it, the next question is: How long can you keep it, given the economy and hire-fire, hire-fire mentality of CEOs?
2. Even if you did buy a house and had decent job security, can you still afford it, given the ever escalating cost of Education and Health Care?
3. If you do have a home and let's say it's paid off, you'd have to sell it or reverse-mortgage is, to pay for escalating costs of Health Care or Elder Care. USSA won't let you get social benefits that the poor enjoy, until you sell of all your stuff and become poor also. That's what your Income Tax and FATCA filings are for, dumbass: No place left to hide your assets.
No matter how you slice it, the Old Paradigms, Mental Models and Social Contract NO LONGER WORK or apply. Banksters have corrupted and hijacked the entire economy and society to the point of reducing 80% of the population to a Rentier/Serf, hand-to-mouth, neofeudal society.
Tinkering around the edges (nice landscaping), or redecorating the House won't work. No matter how emotionally you and your memories might be attached to the old place, stop deluding yourself. This Old House has rot and termites SO deep, that the ONLY solution is to bring in the frikkin bulldozer and start over.
p.s. /While the place is being tented for fumigation, you may think outside the box and consider making a nice batch of Crystal Blue Persuasion, Walter. "What's my name? What's my name?" /s
What we need are zero down 100 year mortgages! Or perhaps generational mortgages, passed down the line. It's just not fair otherwise.
Everyone knows that now is the best time to buy a house or be priced out forever!
Cause... Suzanne researched this!
I dunno... 100 year mortgages might be ok. 200,000 house, 40k down... Let's say 800 mortgage (principal plus interest), 400 taxes... 1200/month for a 30 year. Stretch it out to 100 years... or 90 for math convenience. Paying 666 per month, inclusive of tax. If you pay the same 1200/month, you're actually paying off massive amounts of principal, and will be done in less than 30 years. And you have the safety of paying the bare minimum if all goes wrong, in which case, maybe you are out on the streets in 6 months instead of 2.
I might bite if they give me a nice 7% NIRP loan where payments (interest) are less than interest (payments).
Maybe.
This fucking world has gone full nutter...
Regards,
Cooter
Europeans (and other cultures) have been doing a variation on this theme for centuries:
You build a Starter Home, and keep adding to it for each generation.
The upsides are: 1. No incremental finance costs, on this pay-as-you-build model, 2. Grandparents look after the kids while parents are at work (cementing family ties and avoiding Daycare costs), 3. Reduced Elder Care costs, as they live at home till they die and a family member takes over their place.
The downsides are: You're stuck with the grandparents, and they with you -- unless the floors are well insulated for sound.
That's why Germans (for example) have so much cash for cars and vacations: They don't waste it on everyone having to have their own house and mortgage, just because the banks and realtors demand it so. Of course it helps that their countries don't spend infinite amounts on their military, and can therefore afford a decent education and health care.
+1000
I have been waiting to see if someone chimed in along these lines.
In more than half the countries in the world, 3 and 4 generation households are the norm.