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American Police Are Shooting And Killing More Than 2 People Per Day In 2015

Tyler Durden's picture




 

On Saturday we introduced readers to the “Ferguson Effect”. The idea is that the recent spate of prosecutions and instances of social unrest that followed a series of events involving perceived police misconduct directed at African Americans have made police officers gun shy — literally. 

Here’s what Thomas W. Smith fellow at the Manhattan Institute and author of “Are Cops Racist?” Heather Mac Donald wrote in a WSJ piece:

This incessant drumbeat against the police has resulted in what St. Louis police chief Sam Dotson last November called the “Ferguson effect.” Cops are disengaging from discretionary enforcement activity and the “criminal element is feeling empowered,” Mr. Dotson reported. Arrests in St. Louis city and county by that point had dropped a third since the shooting of Michael Brown in August. Not surprisingly, homicides in the city surged 47% by early November and robberies in the county were up 82%.

 

Similar “Ferguson effects” are happening across the country as officers scale back on proactive policing under the onslaught of anti-cop rhetoric. Arrests in Baltimore were down 56% in May compared with 2014.

Note this passage: “Cops are disengaging from discretionary enforcement activity and the ‘criminal element is feeling empowered.’” That, according to Mac Donald, is why crime is up across many American cities.

A second set of data casts considerable doubt on that thesis. According to The Washington Post, fatal police shootings have doubled with law enforcement now killing more than two people every day. 

Via WaPo:

[At least] 385 people [have been] shot and killed by police nationwide during the first five months of this year, more than two a day, according to a Washington Post analysis. That is more than twice the rate of fatal police shootings tallied by the federal government over the past decade, a count that officials concede is incomplete.

 

“These shootings are grossly under­reported,” said Jim Bueermann, a former police chief and president of the Washington-based Police Foundation, a nonprofit organization dedicated to improving law enforcement. “We are never going to reduce the number of police shootings if we don’t begin to accurately track this information.”

That doesn’t sound too much like a police force that is now “disengaging from discretionary enforcement.” Here are some of WaPo’s findings from an ongoing investigation:

About half the victims were white, half minority. But the demographics shifted sharply among the unarmed victims, two-thirds of whom were black or Hispanic. Overall, blacks were killed at three times the rate of whites or other minorities when adjusting by the population of the census tracts where the shootings occurred.

 

The vast majority of victims — more than 80 percent — were armed with potentially lethal objects, primarily guns, but also knives, machetes, revving vehicles and, in one case, a nail gun.

Forty-nine people had no weapon, while the guns wielded by 13 others turned out to be toys. In all, 16 percent were either carrying a toy or were unarmed.

So America's "disengaged" police are shooting to kill at twice the rate they were in previous years and unsurprisingly, you are far more likely to be a victim if you are black or Hispanic. Further, the majority of cases involving the death of unarmed "suspects" involved minorities. 

Here are the visuals...

As for Mac Donald's implicit contention that a looming increase in police prosecutions is likely discouraging officers from doing their jobs, it seems like the jury is out on that as well (no pun intended):

Police are authorized to use deadly force only when they fear for their lives or the lives of others. So far, just three of the 385 fatal shootings have resulted in an officer being charged with a crime — less than 1 percent.

 

The low rate mirrors the findings of a Post investigation in April that found that of thousands of fatal police shootings over the past decade, only 54 had produced criminal ­charges. Typically, those cases involved layers of damning evidence challenging the officer’s account. Of the cases resolved, most officers were cleared or acquitted.

At the end of the day, the "Ferguson Effect" may indeed exist, but the above seems to indicate that it operates in exactly the opposite way as its proponents suggest.

 

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Sun, 05/31/2015 - 20:35 | 6150486 cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

Some of them enjoy it.  It is like a turkey shoot.  I remember seeing that one cop shooting the unarmed black guy in the back as he was running away.  The cop was pretty nonchalant about it.

But they are protecting all of those who voted for government snooping from those who stood by bill of rights and constitution.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:40 | 6150622 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Just like speeding tickets, there are quotas.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 22:11 | 6150688 Future Jim
Future Jim's picture

People killed 59 police in 2014 and Police killed 1100 people. That is based on collected news reports - not on government statistics.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 00:58 | 6150971 Laowei Gweilo
Laowei Gweilo's picture

nice K/D 

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:35 | 6151078 CSA
CSA's picture

I've seen what cops do and deal with for a living.  I am highly surprised there aren't more cop killings.  

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 05:29 | 6151200 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

So what!  How many people are killed eaxch day by drowning, accidents at home, wrong medications, falling branches, slipping on ice, carbon monoxide..??

Get a clue sheeple!

It's a very dangerous world out there so don't piss off a cop cause you have plenty else out to kill you.

 

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 05:38 | 6151205 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

how many people in your country are killed by the police... or terrorists... or foreign invasions? your argument goes many ways, you know?

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 06:11 | 6151219 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

What's your point?

Never mind.  You don't have one.

Do you?

Welll...... We're waiting..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0YIJQ1jgEI

Ghordius ... Mental Masturbation Champion of ZH!

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 06:15 | 6151227 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

a couple of opinions, imho. one is that the demand for a police force not to use military-style "rules of engagement" has little to do with how many people risk being killed by the police

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 06:23 | 6151230 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Oh la de dah.. Let's DEMAND something at that will change it

La la la la la.... 

Do yourself a big favor

And stay away and out of the real world.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 06:28 | 6151236 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

yes, if you demand, and insist on your demands... explain Gandhi and his followers, if you can. or how they confronted the biggest empire on earth and it's police forces

freedom is a demand. civility is a demand. justice is a demand. and your demand sounds like: "demands are useless". why?

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:36 | 6151079 Gobbler
Gobbler's picture

All those people had it coming.  America is the home of many outrageous criminals.  The cops need to shoot more rather than less.  Word to your mother.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 23:31 | 6150838 This is it
This is it's picture

Not enough. There are too many Americans!

Make space for the Chinese man.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 01:06 | 6150978 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

Well we do need our railways modernized, don't we?

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:55 | 6151108 Gobbler
Gobbler's picture

I have wonderful news.  There be a leprechaun up in the tree.  Peace.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:01 | 6151033 snodgrass
snodgrass's picture
New Data: It’s Still about Black-on-Black Crime by Heather Mac Donald December 11, 2014 The FBI has just released its supplemental homicide data for 2012, including the numbers of interracial killings. These are highly relevant for the current rallying cry that “black lives matter.” Unfortunately, the FBI continues its usual practice of combining whites and Hispanics into the single category “white,” thus overstating white crime and victimization rates. Even so, the data are telling. A “white” homicide victim is over twice as likely to be killed by a black than a black homicide victim is to be killed by a “white.” Sixteen percent of “white” victims in homicide incidents involving a single victim and single offender were killed by blacks, compared with only 7 percent of black victims who are killed by “whites.” Given the fact that blacks are less than 13 percent of the national population, their homicide rate against whites and Hispanics combined is vastly disproportionate to their share of the population. There were 431 black killers of “whites,” compared to 193 “white” killers of blacks. Undoubtedly a large percentage of interracial killings involve gang killings among black and Hispanic gangs; the number of non-Hispanic whites who kill blacks is undoubtedly far lower than 193. (The number of non-Hispanic whites killed by blacks is also presumably lower than 431.) Blacks are also disproportionately represented among cop killers. In 2013, blacks made up 42 percent of all cop killers whose race was known. It is tempting to say in response to this latest data, drearily repetitive of everything that went before it, that “white lives matter.” Of course that would be racist. But it is precisely in response to the disproportionate criminality among the black population that the police are deployed in much higher numbers in black neighborhoods, where they are trying to save innocent lives. There are thousands of law-abiding inner-city blacks who live by bourgeois values and who need protection from criminals. Only the police are willing to provide that protection. Their mantra could be “black lives matter.” The 200 or so reported killings of blacks by police officers — nearly all justified — pale in comparison to the 6,000 or so killings of blacks by other blacks.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/394489/new-data-its-still-about-bla...

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:07 | 6151041 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

Crime data massage is the next frontier for the multiculturalists.  Soon, we wont hard good data on violent crime by ethnicity.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:37 | 6151081 CSA
CSA's picture

So the data suggests Afro Americans are disproportionately killing cops at a rate 3 or more times their population %?  Say it ain't so!

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 20:41 | 6150498 Uber Vandal
Uber Vandal's picture

In all of 2014, 126 Law Enforcement Officers were killed in the line of duty.

http://www.nleomf.org/assets/pdfs/reports/Preliminary-2014-Officer-Fatal...

Also note in the link above, the number of officers who were killed by automobile / traffic accidents (49) is nearly equal to those killed by firearms (50).

 

 

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 22:31 | 6150727 Augustus
Augustus's picture

A better article and review of the Ferguson Effect from the Wall Street Journal:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-nationwide-crime-wave-1432938425

The New Nationwide Crime Wave The consequences of the ‘Ferguson effect’ are already appearing. The main victims of growing violence will be the inner-city poor.

 

The nation’s two-decades-long crime decline may be over. Gun violence in particular is spiraling upward in cities across America. In Baltimore, the most pressing question every morning is how many people were shot the previous night. Gun violence is up more than 60% compared with this time last year, according to Baltimore police, with 32 shootings over Memorial Day weekend. May has been the most violent month the city has seen in 15 years.

In Milwaukee, homicides were up 180% by May 17 over the same period the previous year. Through April, shootings in St. Louis were up 39%, robberies 43%, and homicides 25%. “Crime is the worst I’ve ever seen it,” said St. Louis Alderman Joe Vacarro at a May 7 City Hall hearing.

Murders in Atlanta were up 32% as of mid-May. Shootings in Chicago had increased 24% and homicides 17%. Shootings and other violent felonies in Los Angeles had spiked by 25%; in New York, murder was up nearly 13%, and gun violence 7%.

Those citywide statistics from law-enforcement officials mask even more startling neighborhood-level increases. Shooting incidents are up 500% in an East Harlem precinct compared with last year; in a South Central Los Angeles police division, shooting victims are up 100%.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 20:43 | 6150502 NoPension
NoPension's picture

I listened to an interview on public radio, about the Cleveland trial for the cop that shot the two 'perps" through the windshield while standing on the hood. The cop was exonerated by a judge.
The interview was of a guy that ran a cop non- profit org and donated to the cop's defense.

And all I needed to hear was that pig say the word " civilian".

Fuck the police.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 05:39 | 6151206 BeansMcGreens
BeansMcGreens's picture

The local tv anchor girl in this area was reporting the Waco killing of the bikers by the police, she said fortunately no "civilians" were killed. And was quite serious while saying it.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 06:59 | 6151259 Ward cleaver
Ward cleaver's picture

This site has been left to the unicorn and rainbow lovers. Hey pal, hoping you're a "knockout victim"

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 07:34 | 6151280 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

The knockout game mythology still exists? Wow, it must have come back around. So you are saying that because a few asshole kids punched people and posted the videos on YouTube, it should be ok for cops to assassinate people? You probably still worry about getting an envelope full of anthrax in the mail right?

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 20:47 | 6150509 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Actually, the Ferguson et al scenarios have created a two part divergence among cops - so both viewpoints are in play. Some cops are standing down -- but other cops are also pulling the trigger even earlier than before. Cops have two things they value today - making it home at the end of the shift, and making sure there is no Ferguson replay that ends their career. Somewhere way back in third place is enforcing the laws created by the politicians who trash-talk cops???

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 07:38 | 6151281 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

Again with the "getting home at the end of the shift" shit. You fucking drama queens do realize that more delivery drivers and construction workers die on the job than cops each year. The incessant desire for sympathy about the dangers of your chosen profession is pathetic! If the job is so scary and the politicians are so mean and hurtful, quit the job and get a new one. Isn't that what we tell whiny fast food workers on here?!

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 20:52 | 6150516 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Butcept WAPO does not do investigations anymore. They call up the WH and ask them what they should say.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 20:53 | 6150521 snodgrass
snodgrass's picture

Okay, let's stop the police from doing their job and turn cities over to the thugs. Instant Fergusons, Detroits and Baltimores. What these peope are arguing for is for American cities to resemble third world countries. But don't complain if they turn into no man's land. Don't complain that the police aren't doing their job. Just shut the fuck up and let the "diversity" kill each other and burn the cities to the ground because that's all they are capable of.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:07 | 6150544 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

No people are not arguing for American cities to resemble third world countries.  US CITIES ARE THIRD WORLD.  

Police in the civilized world don't kill residents and citizens day in and day out.  

Police in the civilized world don't misunderestimate a count of the few residents and citizens they do kill.  

Police in the civilized world actually face the possibility of criminal trial in the event that they kill a citizen or resident.

 

Uncle Sam has got you brainwashed into thinking you live in a civilized country.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 23:51 | 6150869 snodgrass
snodgrass's picture

Police kill when faced with people pointing guns at them or who are committing crimes and threaten them. There are instances when the police over-react, but they are not supposed to be sitting ducks either. If you don't know the facts about crime in big cities, shut the fuck up. If you're just a shill for the further destruction of America, drop dead asshole.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 00:51 | 6150959 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

You really don't get it, and you are apparently nothing more than useful idiot of the fascists.  

In the absence of rule of law-- the law (and any notion that the police or their families have a civic "right to life") does not exist, there is only force.  

The police have brought this upon themselves and upon society, by placing themselves above the law.

We joke about Islam being a cult of troglodytes stuck in the Dark Ages, but your notion of society and social order is about 1000 years more primitive than Muhammed.  

You think you understand "crime in the big cities" but yet cannot wrap your mind around the notion that moar of what is not working will not fix the problem, the neo-Keynesian debt paradigm only functions in textbooks, not the real world.   

And no, I won't shut the fuck up or drop dead.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 01:16 | 6150988 WeeWilly
WeeWilly's picture

Oh yeah UR, you are SO informed. I was a cop for 30 years and have been teaching about CJ for the 6 years since I've been retired. Are their problems with individual cops? Sure. Are the great majority of cops in the business to serve folks and protect the sheep? Sure. But you and so many ZHers sit on the couch and throw rocks at men and women who are in the game. Quit being such a closed minded jerk, look at the big picture and give the good cops a freaking break. They sacrifice a lot so you can sit and bash them.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 01:55 | 6151027 boattrash
boattrash's picture

WW, I have trouble agreeing with that mostly "good cop" thing you speak of. My family had first-hand experience with 3 agencies that BLATANTLY fucked up, and assaulted my nephew and his mother. All 3 agencies plus, county and state judicial branches were in on the cover-up/thin blue line protection bullshit that they play these days.
Until LEOs start Policing their own Depts. and stop protecting the "few bad cops" there are damned few "good cops" to be found.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:30 | 6151070 CSA
CSA's picture

So everyone was lying except your nephew and his mother?

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 08:24 | 6151339 PhoQ
PhoQ's picture

That IS how it works in the real world, sonny.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 10:38 | 6151664 boattrash
boattrash's picture

CSA, Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying. All the way from the excuse for initiating the stop, throughout the police reports, and throughout the trials, appeals, depositions, Etc...
Which, if you are not aware, are actual crimes (perjury, falsifying records, just to name a couple).
Just to keep shit straight, I'll add that this was not dragged into court for money either. When this shitshow happened, my brother, (husband and father of the victims) made only 3 fucking requests; Drop the charges. Apologize. Remove the participating cops from their jobs.  (He didn't even ask them to pay medical costs).
PS Two of three Dash-Cams failed to record the events, as did the Taser Data Recorder, (which was used on a non-combative 16 yr old, no less than 6 times, for walking a Schnauzer with his mom, literally feet from their own house). BTW, the nephew passed the 19 panel drug screen that they conducted on him, could you? Also the Schnauzer they were walking, was called in to dispatch as a Pit-Bull.
But, you can put your rose colored glasses back on, stick your head back in the sand, or troll on. I really don't give a shit either way.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 04:38 | 6151115 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

I am looking at the big picture, you, however, are not.  This year's homicide by cop data is actually not a satitistically significant increase from last year.  Approximately 2/3 of those arrested and 3/4 charged with violent offences State courts are convicted, and over 90% by pleading guilty.  Where are the convictions for last year's homicidal cops? And the convictions for prior years' homicidal cops?  Oh yeah, they were all innocent... The dirty blue line somehow legitimately defies statistical probability. There is no Rule of Law in the United States.  Both oligarchy and tyranny are actually improvements over from the absence of rule of law in the classical tradition.  

The problem is larger than individual cops, it is systemic and endemic.  The status quo is the problem.  

There is no excuse for murdering a civilian who is not brandishing a weapon or otherwise immediately threatening the lives of others.  Looking at the longer term picture in the civilized world- the threats that police face in the urban slums Europe are no different than those faced in the United States, yet the police manage not to kill innocent and unarmed civilians (with some notable exceptions like Paris, 1961).  Moreover, for decades European police have faced far larger and more regularly deadly terrorist threats than those faced by police in the United States, yet the police manage not to kill innocent and unarmed civilians.  Even in Third World shitholes like Yemen, Southern Thailand, or West Africa the sort of shit that the police claim is acceptable with regards to killing civilians in the United States is not tolerated.  Moar money, more cops, more guns, more laws, more jailtime is not a solution.  You've had 30 years to make it work in US urban centers, and it doesn't, because it can't.  

So with 30 years experience... where does the blame lie for the failure to charge anyone in the murder of Eric Garner-- with a Richmond County grand jury where it is almost statistically impossible to secure an indictment against a police officer, or with District Attorney Daniel Donovan who didn't even have to throw his presentation because the outcome was assured when he went the grand jury route?

I may be sitting on a couch this morning, but I used to be one of the guys who went into third world shit holes to fix things when local police officers and their entire families were being slaughtered by either disgruntled terrorists or angry civilian mobs, and law enforcement failures had become strategic threats to governance.  Whitewashing police abuses, civilian murder, and "more of the same" (guns/laws/jails) was never a workable solution.  However, when the chickens come home to roost for the US police, you're damn right- I will be happy to throw rocks and "I told you so's".    

Edit: There is another "notable exception" worth menthioning even if it's not really part of Europe... the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, where for 30 years there was "your version" (police supremacy) practiced side by side with a slightly less fascist alternative across the Irish Sea against a single adversary... Polce supremacy never won, and wound up costing more lives and money on both sides.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 08:38 | 6151358 usednabused
usednabused's picture

Awww, those poor fucking pigs. Sacrifice you say? Sacrifice what? Tell me how fucking rough it is now. Seems to me they're rather good at the taking, not the giving. And I can see why they turn into such assholes with fuckheads such as you teaching them to guard the 'sheep' as you said.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 11:38 | 6151857 XitSam
XitSam's picture

You're part of the problem.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:22 | 6150545 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well outside of the widow down at the end of the block I would agree, they can have city life, I was born and raised there, its not for me.

Got into too many fights and the lawyers are the only ones making the real killings...lol.

////

Apparently ambulance chasing lawyers are now reading ZH ;-)

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:18 | 6150573 NoPension
NoPension's picture

I'm from Baltimore, so I know the answer for that turd burg.

Do any of these cities have "shall issue" concealed carry?

So they make ME a criminal by infringing my rights?

Two points. The police are over militarized, and too big for their britches. They are now " above the law". It doesn't apply to them, the law is for "civilians".

Point 2. They will NEVER succeed in the big cities. Big cities are full of niggers. Niggers, over 25%, ruin everything they touch. They are uncivilized, low IQ on average, breed uncontrollably, have too much testosterone and are generally the pack mule of the human race. They cannot, and never have, successfully run an organization, much less a city or country. And until this FACT is faced, your pissing in the wind. No amount of money, training, schooling,set asides, social engineering will fix this problem. Even blacks KNOW this. All blacks are not niggers. And successful blacks get the fuck away and stay away from niggers as soon as and whenever possible. Limit the presence to 25%, and the other 75% will keep them in line. Over that, your fucked.

There, I said it. I believe it. It's true. It's provable. But THEY won't test. Or investigate. Or, Lord knows, admit it. Downvotes away, and try to dream it away.
Now THEY, the leaders, need to admit it, understand and identify their problem, and deal with it. But they won't. So, you are all fucked, and resigned to this stupid bullshit, at least until collapse, civil war and a thorough thinning of the herd.

Bright and cheery today, huh?

You hear a news flash. Baby mauled by a dog! What kind of dog is it?
You hear a news flash. Riots and looting. 85% babies out of wedlock. Who is doing it?

I did not make it so. To solve the problem, you need to identify it. Accurately.
You can't fix a flat tire by changing the oil.

Stop the war on drugs. Stop the war on poverty. Stop the war on terrorism. We will figure it out.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:45 | 6150620 NoPension
NoPension's picture

I don't wish to be banned. Usually, I keep these thoughts to myself. I have been well trained and manipulated by the system to not spout such blasphemy.

But I keep hearing press conference after press conference. Interviews on the boob tube. Articles on the web.
We need more money. Better training. Better schools. Better housing. Food. This. That. The other thing.
And how many listen or watch, and say ( to themselves, under their breath) , eh, no. The problem is _________.

And we expect cops to solve the problem. And the violence gets ratcheted up on both sides, and eventually spills out into greater society.

And that's where we are now. I don't want to " hate" a man or woman for their chosen profession. I remember cops differant. If you where not a hoodlum or a criminal, they where pretty cool. If you slipped, and drove drunk or other stupidity, you could expect a ride home. Now, you are assigned a dollar value. If you can pay, your bled dry. If you can't, your locked up ( big bucks in that), or fuck it, shot.
Here we are.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:33 | 6151073 CSA
CSA's picture

So society expects a 24 or 25 year old to solve generational societal problems?  They are dealing with parents who can't raise their own kids and are twice their age.

Cops should be there to enforce observed law violations only, not fix people's lives who don't and won't fix it themselves.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 22:58 | 6150795 BlussMann
BlussMann's picture

You nailed it. When the societies were segregated and George Washington Carver was their role model there was mutual respect and overall a very decent nation.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 00:52 | 6150960 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Zero Klan Hedge strikes again, and 3 upvotes so far.  For fuck's sake.  Bankers and oligarchs are destroying America from the inside out, and fuck holes like you want to blame black people?  Explain to me again which black owned corporations are too big to fail, and which of them decided to send $750B in our tax dollars to themselves because it was a nice round number.   I feel much greater kindred to an angry black man burning down whatever is before him than I do to a bunch of pussy ZH "libertarians" winking at each other about typing "nigger" in public, behind a username.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 00:53 | 6150965 Counterpunch
Counterpunch's picture

+1000

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:16 | 6151050 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

Separate issues, you are mixing them.  Over here, you have niggers doing what they do best.  Civilization, industry, self-reliance . . . They dont do any of that.  They run, shoot, and steal.  So unless they are installed like Preezy as a token Negro on da Board, the TBTF aren't run by blacks.  For the same reasons there is no first world country in Africa.  It takes balls to identify the truth over the heavy-handed propaganda we are all fed.  What you call a coward I call an act of hope and bravery.  But dont worry, if the shit jumps off, stand with the coons.  See where that gets you.

 

Over there, you have multi-national coporations consolidating power and grinding the bones of millions of serfs.  They either co-opt the populace with bread and circuses (like the niggers), or they give 'em the thugcop treatment.I suspect you come closer to seeing this truth than the former.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:21 | 6151062 Cardinal Fang
Cardinal Fang's picture

Why am I not surprised that you feel kindred with mindless, rioting, looting, arsonist cowards?

I am guessing it is the mindless part.

And maybe the coward part, too.

 

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 03:13 | 6151124 One And Only
One And Only's picture

"Explain to me again which black owned corporations are too big to fail"

Remind me of a black owned corporation that created something of value?

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 09:28 | 6151492 Fun Facts
Fun Facts's picture

protocol #2 - Start fights between different races, classes and religions

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 00:59 | 6150972 PresidentCamacho
PresidentCamacho's picture

Only will the city's that have third world genetics go to third world status, just a function of nature.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:04 | 6150530 teutonicate
teutonicate's picture

Tyler, enough with the persecution of the police already.

Quoting the fact that two people are killed by police per day in the line of duty, without any objective analysis of whether or not those killings were justified, is inflammatory and not per se evidence of a problem.  Maybe, given the circumstances, it should have been four people per day.  You really haven't presented any evidence that suggests that these killings are not justified based on the dangerous nature of the work police officers do.

Police work in a dangerous environment where the daily minority on minority killings dwarf that figure.

There has to be a more productive use of your time.

 

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:14 | 6150558 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

See the bottom "picture" (graphic).

As if it wasn't damning enough already, what that documents is possession (or lack thereof) not whether the victim was even brandishing said object (or whether said object was planted).  

Moreover the study does not include homicide by pig with weapons other than a firearm (e.g. choking, vehicular homicide, "medical conditions" while restrained, et al.)  

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:20 | 6150575 teutonicate
teutonicate's picture

If you are going to refer to police officers as "pigs", don't expect your comments to be taken seriously.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 22:13 | 6150693 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Would you rather I politely schooled your ass on Plato, Aristotle and the primacy of rule of law in a society?  

Why would I care if I am taken "seriously"?  This place is an asylum... the locals run the gamut from idiot savant to pure idiot.

I don't usually post for the "benefit" of the low IQ crowd, and if you're some sophist who cannot (or will not) discriminate between facts, evidence, reason and style, then I really would recommend moving to a more politically correct Oosterwyckian douchebag forum before you get too comfortable at Fight Club (or what used to be Fight Club), because language (and its diversity) can be really beautiful... particularly in a Munch-esque ironic contrasting juxtaposition that makes you want to scream.  

 

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 01:51 | 6151024 snodgrass
snodgrass's picture

If you think anyone takes your bullshit seriously, you spend too much time on the internet. You're another liberal pussy who depends on others to defend your worthless ass. When the shit hits the fan, you'll be the first one out of Dodge. I meet people like you all the time. The further you are from the problem, the faster you are to come up with some totally inane solution that someone else is supposed to implement, and if they don't, then you imply there's something wrong with them. You imagine yourself some king who can order things into existence. You make me puke.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:06 | 6151040 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

He's a liberal, huh?  Why don't you define what you think a liberal is, then let him address that.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:08 | 6151043 snodgrass
snodgrass's picture

A liberal is either someone who has never been mugged or who has been mugged and blames himself because he enjoys flagelating himself.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:15 | 6151053 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Yeah, you're a fucking retard.  I've pointed firearms at people because they wanted to do me harm.  Go back to listening to Rush and Hannity. 

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 08:50 | 6151382 usednabused
usednabused's picture

Yes, he's a retard, but probably a paid retard straight out of the public trough. Any posts about police shootings come up and out of the woodwork jump 50 fucking leeches. And then they wonder why people call them pigs or leeches. Its just calling a spade a spade.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 03:17 | 6151127 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

He and his ad hominems are not worthy of a response.  Although it's kind of amusing that for all the times I get accused of being either fringe-right-wing or fringe-left-wing, every accepted mathematical model works out to me being almost, if not exactly- dead centrist.  

Whudda thunk being a rabid Anti-Federalist would be so confusing to ideologues and social scientists alike?

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 03:34 | 6151138 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

UR, the moderate center of politics is exposed to all sides, and the favourite shooting ground of all extremists

who, at a sublimal level, at least, realize that the moderate centrist is more dangerous to their extreme views then the extremist on the further, other side

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 04:07 | 6151150 Spanky
Spanky's picture

Politically speaking, Ghordus, extremists will always win, simply because they will do anything (no matter how extreme) to prevail. Whereas moderates on the otherhand, will not do anything and everything to win because they have morals and a conscience which places boundaries on their actions.

Thus, paradoxically, to combat extremists, you must be willing to set aside your conscience and morals and "do whatever it takes" to defeat them. And this is the great danger -- fighting extremists creates extremists...

Now, lets define what extremism is... or is it like porn, in the eye of the beholder?

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 05:45 | 6151157 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

in matters of classical ideology, there are three dimension: conservative, socialist, liberal

in matters of classical politics, successful political parties tend to combine two of the dimensions (which moderates them a bit, but adds... inconsistencies)

hence you witness a US Republican Party that is mostly liberal-conservative and fights the opposing dimension, socialism

or a US Democratic Party that is mostly social-liberal and fights the opposing dimension, conservativism

note that in this US model, liberalism "wins" a Phyrric Victory, then it's exposed too little to criticism and so it can show it's ugly side, too

an extremist, seen through this lens, is one that focuses on fighing as such. either all three dimensions, or two of them, or only one

so an extremist is defined by me as someone that fights all the time, and listens none of it

 

------ a bit of expansion on that ------

the extremist fighting socialism is one fighting every kind of equality. unckecked, this leads you to a class society where the lower classes get a different justice from the upper classes. a bad way to end if you started by proposing liberalism, conservativism or a mixture of the two... liberal conservativism

the extremist fighting liberalism is the one fighting individual liberty, among other things. unckecked, he accepts ony the rights of established groups, be them the family, or the nation or the family or the church (either the right one or some of them) or the party, or whatever, including medieval guilds. a bad way to end if you started by proposing socialism, conservativism or a mixture of the two, social conservativism

the extremist fighting conservativism is the one fighting group rights, unckecked, he atomizes society, by dismantlement of institutions like the family, the nation, the ethnic group, churches, etc. etc. a bad way to end if you started by proposing liberalism, socialism or a mixture of the two, social liberalism

the extremist fighting two of those dimensions is even worse, while the one fighting all three... well, he is fighting human nature in it's entirety

my point is that the extremist is too focused on trashing the others instead of upholding his values, be them liberal Freedom, conservative Brotherhood or socialist Equality

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 04:31 | 6151163 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

;-) Spanky, I reject your Paradox. Extremists can be exposed, anytime, for what they are, and be "fought" in good conscience without throwing morals overboard

to the hater of socialism, I will reply that socialism has tits. socialism has a human nature, it's icon is the mother versus the child

to the hater of conservativism, I will reply that it has wisdom. conservativism has a human nature, it's icon is the father versus the child

to the hater of liberalism, I will reply that it has a human nature, too, and it's icons are the individual and the entrepreneur

those who follow them or reject them to the extremes, reject part of human nature

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 06:04 | 6151221 Spanky
Spanky's picture

I like your analogy, but disagree with you about how fighting extremism effectively spreads it. Here in the states, we live with political extremists (neo-liberals and neo-cons) whom have basically taken over the nation, both private (large corporations and TBTF banks) and public (governance). This happened while moderates fought (ineffectively) against it.

Simply put, I have fought political extremists. I quit doing so actively because, as a moderate, I was unwilling to go to the extremes of my adversaries and received little to no public support (and not much from my employer). My investigative work, while good, was not enough to counter their lack of morals and conscience and was thus ineffective. It would have been easier to dig into personal histories and find evidence of past indiscretions or misdeeds and use those as leverage -- but I am no extremist.

My definition of extremist is actually quite simple: Someone who can and will rationalize any act, no matter it's negative or amoral or illegal consequences, in furtherance of their political agenda.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 04:22 | 6151158 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Unfortunately, too often the "moderate centrist" deserves to be shot at (figuratively).  Forgoing vigilance for the selfish luxury of apathy is both uncivil and uncivic.  Look at how much it has cost the Greeks, it has been over FIVE YEARS since the Greek public onset of the Greek Tragicomedy Crisis, and it took "the people" four and half years to stop the traditional oscillation and dithering.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 04:43 | 6151171 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I agree, too often he deserves to be shot at (figuratively) because vigilance comes easier to the extremist

but the whole Greek story is actually full of extremes

the Greek military, for exampe, or the Greek religious and their clergy, or the socialistic state enterprise apparatus, or the Greek entrepreneurial class, particularly the one living in Diaspora

whenever I assess my behaviour when in Greece, I note a shift in my stance

but you don't really even need the moderate centrist, in polarized politics. all you need is ideological ceasefires, and a will to find mutually disagreably solutions... that work

note, in this context, what a swear-word that "bipartisanship" has become, in the US

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 05:30 | 6151203 Spanky
Spanky's picture

"Bipartisanship" has come to mean Ds and Rs agreeing on matters of governance and policy that benefit the few, while holding forth their "social" differences as meaningful to the citizenry. That the citizenry may be too ignorant, apathic or busy trying to keep their head above water financially does not obviate the fact that our elected representatives know exactly what they are doing when violating their public trust.

This is precisely the reason the USSC had to decide that (unlimited campaign) cash is speech. If our elected representatives had voted to do so, the citizens might suspect their intentions. But the court? Why it's a Constitutional issue dontcha know...

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 08:28 | 6151329 teutonicate
teutonicate's picture

Thanks for your feedback. Let me address your comments individually:

1) In answer to your question, Yes. If I thought you were capable of schooling anyone on Plato, Aristotle and the primacy of the rule of law in society - I would prefer that you do so.  But I know better.

2) If you don't care whether you are taken seriously, why post anything?  It is a waste of your time and ours.

3) I am still waiting for the "facts, evidence and reason" that support your view.

4) Take a look at the majority of the responses to this post.  You hold the "politically correct" view that the liberal media is espousing, not I.  You ARE the sheep, not the righteous revolutionary you are attempting to project.

 

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 09:38 | 6151534 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Your original post implies that there is any circumstance under which it may even be justified for an armed police officer to shoot and kill an unarmed civilian.  Under exactly what circumstances is an armed civilian justified in shooting and killing an unarmed police officer?  And under what circumstances is there any difference between the two groups when a member of either group, while armed, is justified in shooting and killing a member of the other group while unarmed? 

Answer those two simple questions, but keep in mind your arrogance with regards with regards to Plato and Aristotle, because if you answer wrong - the epic bullshit of your 7 week old account will be recorded for posterity.

And while you berate a rather sophomoric and painfully politically correct attempt by the staff of WaPo to finally perform an objective and quantitative analysis, you offer defense to a ongoing criminal conspiracy between local police, police unions, local government and BJS/DOJ to prevent such an analysis by withholding and not publishing data in their possession.  A criminal conspiracy worthy of civil RICO suit holding local police officers, their unions, their pensions, and their civil authorities jointly and wholly liable for the violations of the civil rights of citizens facilitated by said conspiracy.

You can claim to be waiting for facts evidence and reason, but since you haven't to what I posted above. I'll just direct you here, until you answer my two simple questions.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 11:59 | 6151700 teutonicate
teutonicate's picture

Thanks again for your feedback.

I would be happy to answer both of your questions; because I don't think that we are as far apart as you think.

An officer of the law is justified in shooting an unarmed civilian, if upon a proper examination of the facts and circumstances he had reasonable reason to believe at the time that his life or the life of another that it is his duty to protect is in danger.  There are all kinds of situations that a police officer may be confronted with where it will not be possible to determine with absolute certainty whether the civilian is unarmed prior to having to make this decision.  The nature of the job requires that these split second decisions sometimes need to be made without perfect information - and in some cases an unarmed civilian will, unfortunately, but justifiably, be shot.

A civilian has the same rights to defense of himself, in my view, as the police officer - and should be subject to the same sanctions if his actions were not reasonable in light of the circumstances.  The only difference in my view between the two is that the police officer is supposed to be trained to handle this situation better than a civilian, because it is part of his job.  He is also likely to be confronted with the situation a lot more often, which means that we need to be realistic about the fact that he has a lot more chances to get it wrong than the average civilian - and we need to respect the reality of that burden.

In my view, simply stating that two unarmed civilians are shot by police offers per day in the title of an article, and then supporting it by a couple of examples of such behavior that were not justified, does not constitute a rigorous argument.  To support such an argument would require that you measure how many times officers are confronted with these split second decisions per day, and then compare that to how many times they get it wrong - with full respect for the fact that if they get it REALLY wrong, they end up dead.

Where we differ, and the reason that I was critical of Tyler for attacking police officers in his posts again and again and again, which he has done, is that I think it mischaracterizes police officers in general for the actions of a very small minority of officers - whose actions none of us approve of.  The net effect of which is not constructive, because it alienates the exact people that we rely upon to make sound judgments quickly under difficult circumstances.

Let's do our best to correct this, and move on - without lambasting an entire honorable profession.

P.S. With regard to your comment "the epic bullshit of your 7 week old account will be recorded for posterity", I will take that as a complement and thank you for following my posts.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 13:42 | 6152263 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Well, thank God you didn't fall for that one, but how can you posit that Rule of Law exists in practice, when the statistics are so flawed and one-sided?

I am not arguing that the profession is wholly and solely responsible for the situation, because the police are only one element of judicial process, much less the State itself, but that does not mean they do not bear collective responsibility for certain department wide actions.

But first a digression-

One critical fact the authors of the WaPo piece glossed over was the fact that police homicide of civilians has been systemically under-reported for years.  The police from the municipal to federal level can count and disclose exactly how many of their own are killed (and love to do so in order to supplement public funding and very uncivil and corrupting forfeiture statutes and practices), but yet they do not honestly report how many they have killed.  Any municipality and local union knows exactly how many officer involved shooting occur in a given year within their jurisdiction, and whether the victim died.  Only when the citizenry starts crowd sourcing data in real time do they even admit basic facts in their possession and even then they do not bother to provide and complete data (perhaps due the criminal negligence of the ARD reporting system which cannot even publish any of it's admittedly failed data since since 2011).

The conviction rate for persons arrested for violent crimes fluctuated in the mid 60%s for any given year.  In 100% of officer involved homicides by firearm the perpetrator is known.  But in a negligible number of cases (even entirely ignoring the 60% of deaths where the underlying incident was a violent crime) is the officer even sent to trial, much less convicted, and again the State and the Profession negligently fail to provide accurate and timely statistics.  

So as to the collective responsibility of the Profession, or more precisely of entire departments (as opposed to the other organs of "the justice system")

What happened in Baltimore was inexcusable.  A civilian was beaten to death the by police.  This possible to likely criminal homicide was captured on video.  When a prosecutor, who could bring an indictment against a ham sandwich, if a ham sandwich were to be recognized a juristic person, actually defies statistics and returns with a grand jury indictment - the department throws a very unprofessional temper tantrum and resorts to work to rule gimmicks to escalate a volatile situation of their own making, entirely because the justice system did exactly what it was supposed to do.  Every officer of Baltimore Police Department who does not voice objection to the attempted perversion of the justice system to undermine rule of law bears culpability for that attempted perversion of the justice system.

Moving away from Baltimore and the few instances where officers are potentially held to the same standard as the citizenry-

The broader civil situation is a clusterfuck, and the police (individually and in aggregate) cannot fix it on their own and obviously didn't entirely create it.  However, they also cannot fix or even improve the situation with moar guns and moar armor and moar civilian death, when are the "professional" adults going to stand up and demand to stop doubling down on stupid.  Police (departments) like to dress up and PRETEND they are professional soldiers.  But police are NOT professional soldiers, and Professional soldiers trying to maintain security in hostile environments know better (and they don't empty their magazines against single, much less unarmed adversaries, those few bad apples apparently might end up wearing NY or Cleveland blue though).  The individual officer doesn't make policy, but management (collectively) does make policy, and policies from April 11, 1986 to February 28, 1997 to September 11, 2001 to today have been too often short sighted, counter productive, and unprofessional, if not worse, and for this management (department & labor collectively) bears responsibility for the specific, intentional and systematic violations of civil rights.       

P.S. You appear to have more frontal lobe function than a lot of the fresh meat walking though the door recently.  However, like the increasing Russian/Ukranian trolls who start beating at the door every time that display of unprofessional military conduct heats up, showing up 7 weeks ago and defending the PoPo is probable cause for concern (although you might actually be surprised by some of the "conservative" and politically and socially "incorrect" defenses of police homicide around here... like say that series of seven comments from 40 weeks ago).   

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 15:10 | 6152652 teutonicate
teutonicate's picture

I appreciate the points made in your digression. I am all for a high standard of police conduct, even within the context of the nightmare that Baltimore and similar cities have become - due to the pursuit of bankrupt ideologies and policies that are now bearing fruit.

Since we can't boil the ocean, I am going to confine my responses to you first assertions:

"Well, thank God you didn't fall for that one, but how can you posit that Rule of Law exists in practice, when the statistics are so flawed and one-sided?"

I am not necessarily asserting that the rule of law exists.  If anything I am asserting that the law of the jungle exists in many of our cities because of the misguided policies that have been pursued - and no - more money, welfare and federal involvement won't fix it.

The fact that police departments are getting frustrated by these conditions, and appear increasingly helpless to address them is unfortunate, but I believe this is more the result of the breakdown of society in our cities than an uptick in police brutality.  Doesn't mean we shouldn't be vigilant about curbing police brutality though, when it is exercised.

Are we sure the statistics are flawed and one-sided?  I don't think this article claims to have established that fact.  In my view, more data would need to be analyzed to objectively claim this.  I also understand that getting access to this data is difficult.

"I am not arguing that the profession is wholly and solely responsible for the situation, because the police are only one element of judicial process, much less the State itself, but that does not mean they do not bear collective responsibility for certain department wide actions."

Agreed.  If these officers in Baltimore are found guilty by the due process of law, than I believe they should get their just punishment (a viewpoint that I also believe that most police officers in the country would hold).  To get the due process of law at this point, however; they may need a change of venue - given the current atmosphere in this community.

This said, if you are going to hold all officers to some standard of collective responsibility for certain department-wide actions, even though they may not individually be at fault in this case, isn't it also appropriate to hold members of the community to some standard of collective responsibility for the theft and destruction they caused, even though most members of the community were not at fault?  Where is the outrage from the race-baiters as to how members of their community behaved?

Glad to hear I passed the frontal lobe test, but don't give up on me yet, I could still blow it ;)

 ‘till later.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 19:11 | 6153505 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

If Marilyn Mosby objects to a motion to change venues I will be one of the first and most vociferous here hurling expletives across the interwebs.  In regards to collective responsibility and believe that both the community, local administration and law enforcement should all be made to bear it, as long as it doesn't transgress into collective punishment.  Unfortunately, the legal system in too many cases facilitates collective punishment over individual punishment.  But it's 0100 here so I'll unload the lawyers another day (because they deserve at least several thousand words).   See ya round-

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 09:33 | 6151501 Fun Facts
Fun Facts's picture

IQ capped homicidal maniac thugs who think they are at war with the american citizens masquerading as law enforcement.

From the ZWO elders 4 u donkey.

Trained in Israel as an occupation force.

We will all be treated more and more like palestinians going forward.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 23:39 | 6150848 boattrash
boattrash's picture

Speaking of out of control LEO Agencies, here's a reprint of a post Re; a county being low on funds from an unlawful  mass arrest of bikers that they conducted.
"We falsely imprisoned some folks".
They think it's expensive now, wait til they lose all the lawsuits for jailing, and setting $million bond on people with NO crime history, for eating at a restaurant, when a fight broke out...

The link below is one of those cases and is a very good read...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/267040628/Matthew-Clendennen-v-City-of-Waco

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 01:07 | 6150980 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Wow, that was quick.  If it doesn't get thrown out or settled just as quickly, there should be some really fun discovery to be had.  They get to go after anything that is reasonably calculated to lead to the discovery of admissible evidence.  IMO, there will be a motion to dismiss here shortly.  There'll be a couple of weeks for the resply, then a couple more weeks if there is to be a surreply, and however long it takes if there are to be oral arguments, then several months for the judge to rule on it if it is not a clear cut case.  If the case survives and it really was the police clusterfuck that we think it is, the offers to settle will come rolling in.  Then the plaintiff has to decide if they want to risk the dreaded Rule 68. 

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 00:55 | 6150968 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

My last traffic stop was a cop who was just looking for a reason to throw me in a cage.  Do you know what saved me from, at the very least, a 2 hour detainment as they rifled through my shit?  I know the legal system well enough that I was able to start setting him up for a lawsuit where he lacked qualified immunity, and he figured it out before things went too far.  He initiated the contact.  I would have just left him alone. This sort of behavior is systemic.  Seriously, fuck cops.  And since they're not subject to the UCMJ, they are "civilians," so double fuck them. 

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:17 | 6151054 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

Umm, thugcops murdering citizens is what is inflammatory.  The rest is merely commentary.  But dont let me stop your effort to censor a legit viewpoint.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:21 | 6150536 emptyandmeaningless
emptyandmeaningless's picture

"Cops are disengaging from discretionary enforcement activity and the ‘criminal element is feeling empowered.’”

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-nationwide-crime-wave-1432938425?mod...

Cops are disengaging, and there is a new nationwide crime wave.  Yeah, the game is the Union is now coaching the cops to strike fear among the populace and use it to control their masters for future gain. Heard a cop on Sirrus Hannity show saying that he is predicting a crime wave accross the USA because the citizens and the goverment do not have their backs.   I am gussing that having their backs = OK to be thugs and not held accountable.

When in the end you are not held to the same standard and rule of law as your Sheeple, then one becomes more and more empowered to be corrupt. This same pattern of conversation is being used at all levels of govement to condone power to the few over the massess. 

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:05 | 6150541 Dixie Flatline
Dixie Flatline's picture

What is the percentage of total police encounters that end in shooting?  How does that compare with black on black assault with deadly weapons per day?

The positive feedback of immoral people gaining positions of power resulting in lesser trust in institutions of power is approaching a geometric acceleration.

You cannot have a society built upon individual definitions of morality and expect everything to move forwad towards utopia.  We aren't slouching, moseying, stumbling towards Gomorrah.

 

We are Gomorrah.  90% chance of fire and brimstone.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 01:24 | 6150992 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Cops are held to a lesser standard than blacks when it comes to shooting somebody.  I will call a police involved shooting as justified if I believe that I would have been justified in the same circumstances.  The legal system will call an officer involved shooting justified when it would throw the book at me.  That is not equality in the eyes of the law.  This is about a monopoly on the use of force.  They don't quite have it yet, but they're sure as hell trying. 

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:10 | 6150552 PermaBug
PermaBug's picture

the article makes clear the data is totally unreliable and a lot of these events go un reported, so who knows, it might be that police shooting of civilians is lower now than before, but better reported.

 

It could also be that 'empowered' criminals are more brazen.

 

Logic says that a cop who knows he could be charged with murder for trying to arrest a crazed meth-head or 400 pound heart attack waiting to happen is reasonably going to question why he would bother to put himself at risk.

Do you really think cops are that dedicated to risk their lives to make sure a petty thief goes to jail? I don't.

 

 

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:18 | 6150572 boattrash
boattrash's picture

"Logic says that a cop who knows he could be charged with murder for trying to arrest a crazed meth-head or 400 pound heart attack waiting to happen is reasonably going to question why he would bother to put himself at risk."

Do the homework though. The sites/stats are available. If an obese officer dies from a heart attack at the gun range, or at his desk, it is still considered a "death in the line of duty" as is failure to maintain control of a vehicle, even if killed in a 1-car, non-pursuit accident. Just sayin...

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:11 | 6150555 boattrash
boattrash's picture

Well, maybe if makes a difference to some people, if the are actually enforcing a law, or a personal request. I've been looking for the law/code that prevents one from trying to save their truck from flood waters. I can't seem to find it...

http://www.newson6.com/story/29195935/ohp-trooper-shoots-kills-man-durin...

PS. LEO training test question #174 ; What is the best way to prevent a redneck from drowning?

     Answer; Put a bullet in his chest.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:25 | 6150593 NoPension
NoPension's picture

Jeesh. I read that article. And the comments there made Hedge look tame.

If I'm in trouble, pleeeaase don't call a cop. Thank you. Thankyouverymuch.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:41 | 6151088 CSA
CSA's picture

Do your best not to assault the cop and you can probably walk away without a gaping hole in your chest.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:15 | 6150564 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

The country is becoming more violent as the life situation for most continues to degrade. Why is this shocking?

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:25 | 6150595 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

2 per day.

 

It's a start.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:27 | 6150597 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

Q- How do you shoot women, and children?

 

A- Easy. Just don't lead them so much.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:27 | 6150598 q99x2
q99x2's picture

I'm bored. Somebody call the police and get the cameras out. Let's see what they do.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:43 | 6150621 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

Latest shooting to make international headlines-An assistant pastor killed in Tulsa. He and his brother were trying to pull a truck from flood waters when the cops arrived to "save" them. 

A friend of Nehemiah, Mike Haesloop, told The Guardian that the 35-year-old is 'not the kind of guy that’s going to pull a gun on anybody.'

'He’s more one that’s going to pray for you,' 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3105175/Distraught-wife-pastor-k...

 

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:51 | 6150652 homebody
homebody's picture

Wait for the truth to come out - sounds impossible that police would shoot for no reason.  I have seen many risk their live to save others.  

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 01:06 | 6150977 Dolar in a vortex
Dolar in a vortex's picture

Hands up, don't shoot.

Wasn't true, but people still chant it.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:43 | 6151090 CSA
CSA's picture

People don't want truth. Look at the 5 useful idiots that down voted you.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:50 | 6151099 Counterpunch
Counterpunch's picture

"sounds impossible that police would shoot for no reason"

 

I didn't junk you, I greened you for your initial sentiment but still - this sentence is just silly

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:41 | 6150624 homebody
homebody's picture

Okay, have the police back off all but the worst crime reports and see what happens to your drug fueled cesspool.  Don't call me or whine on Zero when the thugs come to your street.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 22:59 | 6150797 Duc888
Duc888's picture

 

 

homebody:Okay, have the police back off all but the worst crime reports and see what happens to your drug fueled cesspool.  Don't call me or whine on Zero when the thugs come to your street.

 

I really can't think of a single event happening in which I would call a cop. Seriously.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:44 | 6151093 CSA
CSA's picture

I can, someone else's wife getting beat in a grocery store parking lot as I drive off because it doesn't concern me that she refuses to leave him after the 20th time this has happened.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 10:55 | 6151724 BlussMann
BlussMann's picture

Goah, are you Captain America ? Batman ?

Doc Holliday ?

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:44 | 6150637 rejected
rejected's picture

The police have lost the moral high ground.The police have lost the respect of the People.

This was bound to happen when the Federale's decided to convert them to hostile militias.

This is why the military is practicing covert actions in operation Jade Helm. What a perfect cover for positioning. 

Call 911 at your personal risk.

 

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:48 | 6151098 CSA
CSA's picture

If the police were preaching something, they could claim ground.  People break laws, we paid taxes for someone to take care of others problems.  I for one won't get involved in a neighbor fighting each other and I'm not really interested in dealing with it when it spills onto my lawn where my family is now about to be victimized, but I'm forced to if I don't have some poorly paid kid to come handle it.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:45 | 6150638 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

Of course the police are saying criminals will take over if police are held to their own rules and standards.  That's the only argument anybody uses in America anymore; we can't afford our own standards, ethics and morals because the crisis is so severe we have to behave worse than our enemies, to protect ourselves.  That's why we have to have the PATRIOT Act and total domestic surveillance; to protect us from foreign threats of some kind.  That's why we can't prosecute the banks for destroying our financial system; to protect jobs and the integrity of our system.  We can't do anything about the cost of health care because we can't afford to.  We have to excuse torture and kidnapping to protect American values.

Is anybody else sick and tired of this craven, lying bullshit?

The fact is, almost none of the killings in America have anything to do with criminals becoming brazen because they don't fear the cops.  Almost all of them are stupid young men with an excess of balls and a deficiency of brains, armed to the teeth, bored, alienated from any purpose, unable to delay gratification and hyper-sensitive to any perceived insult or challenge in any way.  It would require a bit of thought for criminals to become emboldened by the realization that police might be walking on eggshells right now; and thought ain't a strong suit of the kinds of people who shoot each other in today's America.  

What happens in the vast majority of killings in America is that Dumbass #1 thinks that Dumbass #2 is "disrespecting" him by either existing, picking up on a girl, making a snotty remark, dealing dope in the same ZIP code, wearing the wrong baseball cap, or whatever.  Dumbass #1 finds it of paramount importance to show Dumbass #2 just exactly who is and is not a "bitch."  Dumbass #1 sets out to prove this with a weapon of some sort; usually a cheap shitty handgun.  Dumbass #2 may very well be similarly equipped.  When the two Dumbasses encounter one another, words are exchanged and there is much posturing and shouting.  When one Dumbass has silenced the other Dumbass with verbal dexterity, the guns come out.  Typically, neither Dumbass is injured, but some other Dumbass who has been hanging around out of in hopes of a vicarious thrillseeking high gets ventilated and now both original Dumbasses have now become felons in one way or another.  Prompting another round of Dumbassery.

The cops and their current modes of operating haven't done a shit thing to interrupt that cycle.  For them to suggest that if they are forced to treat their fellow citizens (because that's what we are; we aren't "civilians" and they ain't soldiers) like human beings will bring on some Hollywood Apocalyptic Sci-Fi scenario isn't just insulting in the extreme.  It suggests that the police don't even understand what is going on in the communities they supposedly patrol.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 22:44 | 6150760 Augustus
Augustus's picture

Read about the death of a rapper - Young Pappy.  There had been several innocent bystanders killed when there were previous attempts to get him.  He posts a video rap about the other side not being able to shoot.  A week later he gets two in the head.

 

Rapper killed a week after posting video making fun of rival gang

http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-83657181/

 

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 22:55 | 6150781 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

Exactly.  "Young Pappy" was probably standing about 10 feet from the actual target of the shooting and that's what did him in.

Yes, I read the article so I know he was himself the target.  But still.  This young moron had gotten in trouble for smoking pot, petty theft, trespassing; not exactly a criminal mastermind.  If not for the ongoing game of tag he and his friends were involved in, using actual guns, he'd be alive today.  He'd still be a Dumbass, and he probably wouldn't amount to much, but you could say that about a lot of people who aren't otherwise remarkable.

Neither "Young Pappy" nor his pals nor their equally feckless rivals spent one second wondering if their local police were demoralized by media scrutiny before they shot at each other.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 00:09 | 6150888 Augustus
Augustus's picture

Yes, he was a dumbass.  And not just because he made one rap video that challenged the rivals to shoot him.

 

The factor being ignored by everyone with a "blame the cops" mentality is that these dumbasses would be equally stupid about having the shootout with the police.  The police already know that and are on the alert for the situation to change to violent in a short moment.  Remember that the Ferguson shooting resulted from a dumbass who decided to resist arrest and fight with the policeman.  The policeman had no plans to shoot someone who had stolen some small items from a store.  The dumbass violent element seems to have become a larger part of society.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 09:06 | 6151423 usednabused
usednabused's picture

"and he probably wouldn't amount to much, but you could say that about a lot of people who aren't otherwise remarkable"

Had to laugh at this one. Isn't that in fact the case for 99% of the police and any other public employee out there? They wouldn't have amounted to jack shit if they hadn't gotten into the public trough.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 23:28 | 6150833 JoJoJo
JoJoJo's picture

It is Hollywood Apocalyptic Sci-Fi scenariototo  expect inner city folks to act human. #dontblamewhitey.

 

 

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:20 | 6151057 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

This is merely using the criminals who are fed, clothed, and housed by .gov to advance the totalitarian agenda.  Look, we're got feral savages (black and browns).  Therefore, we must take away all the guns.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 21:45 | 6150639 Bill of Rights
Bill of Rights's picture

Ill just leave this right here...

 

42 USC 1983 sue the pricks and bankrupt them.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 22:34 | 6150732 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

And I'll just leave this right here, too:

http://www.alternet.org/your-sons-life-was-only-worth-100k-cop-uses-facebook-taunt-family-unarmed-man-he-killed

Salt Lake City, Utah – In a sickening move, the purported Facebook account of the cop who shot and killed Joey Tucker six years ago posted comments demeaning the life of the man he killed.

 

The damning comments, posted to a Facebook page set up by Tucker’s family to memorialize their son’s life, belittled the family of the dead man, taunting that his life was only worth $100,000; the amount of the settlement the family apparently received in a lawsuit related to Tucker’s killing.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:21 | 6151061 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

Now if that's my family member who's been murdered by the thugcop, that's when I drop a contract on his kid, then his spouse, then him.  And I make sure he goes slow.  Piece by piece.  With blowtorch and belt-sander sessions.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 22:35 | 6150738 Deja Doh
Deja Doh's picture

When the cops see these numbers, they are going to realize that they are not killing enough women.

 

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 22:40 | 6150748 skippy9
skippy9's picture

Anyone who believes anything the Washington Post or the NYT publish have their head up their ass. Both rags are Obama propaganda tools and we all know where bozo stands on the police forces. His first action in office was to criticise a black professor who they thought was breaking into a house. Hey, want the police to stop arresting the black menace? Tell them to stop committing most of the crimes. You liberal assholes haven't a clue how much the black menace hates you. They are the supreme racists.  Here's a mesasage for you Sharpton, "Go fuck yourself and take the rest of the shit with you."

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 22:47 | 6150769 83_vf_1100_c
83_vf_1100_c's picture

  On a long enough timeline...everyone gets shot by a cop. The timeline is shorter if you be gangsta and sheeit.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 22:51 | 6150775 lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

Gosh another "hate the cops" piece. How refreshing. Let's give the crackheads badges and see how that turns out.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:25 | 6151064 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

There is a problem with the way thugcops operate.  Until it's fixed, there will be blood.  And there will be articles discussing the bloodshed.  Want them to stop?  Push for justice.

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 23:19 | 6150821 JoJoJo
JoJoJo's picture

Not to worry, many big city police are not in such a hurry to rush into brotester areas where blacks are shooting blacks at a rate of over 8000 a year. Its always "The police have to learn to dialogue and reach out to the hoods" Forget about asking the heathen to change THEIR WAYS and stop killing, robbing, raping their fellow brotesters.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 02:52 | 6151103 Counterpunch
Counterpunch's picture

you have a point, in there somewhere, but why can't problematic police violence and shitty thug culture BOTH be problems?

Sun, 05/31/2015 - 23:44 | 6150855 christiangustafson
christiangustafson's picture

CopBlock libertarians are even worse than open borders libertarians, or pacifist libertarians, or pothead libertarians.

Like those pricks who get pulled over by the police, and right away start badgering them with aggressive questions, "Are you detaining me!?", and citing statutes by number.

USA is largely a third world country, and if you're at all like me, the police are ON YOUR SIDE. They're on the front lines with barbarism, day in, day out, in the backwaters of declining America.

Disgraceful post!

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 00:56 | 6150969 Counterpunch
Counterpunch's picture

First they came for the pothead libertarians, and I said nothing, because I was not not a cunt....

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 00:19 | 6150901 luckylogger
luckylogger's picture

The police have became revenuers for some areas and are just fukinmg jerks....

I had a cop steal my rental car and all my money one time....

But and this is important...

The issue here is black gangs, do not beat around the bush....

It is true.....

Probably black people kill 10x as many black people as cops do.............

I do not know the solution but I do know the black on black killing is wa worse than any other  problem...

the big shot blacks like sharpton and jackson would do a much better deal for their buds if they approached that......

That or just let the loosers just shoot each other kindo of like letting the cammel jockys shoot each other...................

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 00:27 | 6150920 Lyman54
Lyman54's picture

In Vancouver B.C.  the RCMP (LBGTQP) killed a guy because he had a stapler.  They got away with it.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 00:54 | 6150966 Counterpunch
Mon, 06/01/2015 - 01:08 | 6150981 Counterpunch
Counterpunch's picture

 

 

 

As police/alphabets begin to treat Americans as the IDF treats Palestinians, pursuant to the designs of the NWO/ZWO, they could, in a worst case scenario, one day commence a war they can not win.  Let us hope there is a demilitarization, reasonable review of procedures and gear, citizens oversight panels with some authority, a restoration of community policing, as well as ongoing understanding and support for the vast majority of good cops who are doing their job honorably, including those who may be too quickly accused of making a bad decision in a tough situation.


But there are too many instances of violence against unarmed, non-violent civilians, including pregnant women.


If a cop kicked and punched my pregnant wife...  all internet tough guy bravado aside...  gosh, I don't know what I'd do.  I do not my first thought would not be pursuing a legal remedy. Can you imagine?


Sooner or later, one of these sparks is going to fall on a bunch of oily rags.

Or worse.

 

 

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 05:10 | 6151193 BoPeople
BoPeople's picture

The real answer is not to vilify the police, but break the connection between them and the Feds/Oligarchs.

Maybe people should work on that, rather than playing into the hands of TPTB.

Even though some cops might want to think of themselves as having power over other "little people", at the end of the day, they are going back to their little pad instead of a big mansion or penthouse.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 06:53 | 6151251 Ward cleaver
Ward cleaver's picture

Oh the Washington post, non partisan rag if there ever was one. Knowing many cops I can assure you the ferguson effect is true. The reason for the increase is that the thugs r out there with no fear and commit crimes at any time and for any reason. Coming to a neighborhood near you.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 06:54 | 6151253 loregnum
loregnum's picture

Whoa whoa whoa! 180 of them were white compared to 105 that were black? That can't be since blackies and the race baiting media tell me only blacks get shot by the cops!

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 08:46 | 6151376 Dominus Ludificatio
Dominus Ludificatio's picture

Anger manegement is not part of US police training. Shoot to kill police mentaliity is a reflection of the mental state of Americans.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 09:48 | 6151561 Jack Daniels Esq
Jack Daniels Esq's picture

Get get rid of Obama, and we will jack black totals up

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 10:59 | 6151729 GoBadgers
GoBadgers's picture

OK, so now the police have backed off in Baltimore.

Tell me son, how is that working out for ya?

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 11:44 | 6151886 22winmag
22winmag's picture

Steroids... plain and simple.

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 13:15 | 6152190 BI2
BI2's picture

We send our Police to be trained in Israel. When they return should we be surprised they treat us like Israelis treat Palestinians? Israel: America's CURSE >>> http://wp.me/p4OZ4v-3z

Mon, 06/01/2015 - 20:56 | 6153808 vegan
vegan's picture

"Armed" mean armed when the report is written, not necessarily "armed" when the "suspect" was shot.

 

Tue, 06/02/2015 - 21:05 | 6157714 PoliceThePolice
PoliceThePolice's picture

The people posting on this site are too funny. Fighting about witch gang, they throw support behind as if either one is the real enemy. Let's look at some of these posts.....

 

#1 "If you are going to refer to police officers as "pigs", don't expect your comments to be taken seriously." Not calling out the people who throw nigger out there every third word? C'mon man

 

#2"OK, so now the police have backed off in Baltimore. Tell me son, how is that working out for ya?" It's working out great for half of you racist stupid assholes. It's black criminals killing other black criminals. C'mon man

 

#3 "This site has been left to the unicorn and rainbow lovers. Hey pal, hoping you're a "knockout victim" !!!!! Screen name Ward Cleaver...  Newsflash Ward, Your old and white, Your name says it all. You're not supposed to get it. Just sit back and watch Fox news and listen to Rush. Don't be scared of much, you will be dead soon. C'mon man

 

#4 "If you're just a shill for the further destruction of America, drop dead asshole." Keep waving that flag that was made in Korea fella. Just another cock sucker calling someone else a cock sucker, while sucking a cock. C'mon man

 

#5"You really haven't presented any evidence that suggests that these killings are not justified based on the dangerous nature of the work police officers do"  It's the 41st most dangerous job in America. No link needed, look it up. How many fishermen and lumber jacks need people crying how dangerous their jobs are. Don't want a job that could get you killed? Then don't work one. C'mon man

 

#6 "Umm, thug cops murdering citizens is what is inflammatory.  The rest is merely commentary" Next time we will say nursery rimes to protect what you think is inflammatory. I'm guessing nigger nursery rhymes are okay, since that did not inflame your delicate sense of self worth. C'mon man

 

#7 Wait for the truth to come out - sounds impossible that the police would shoot for no reason.  I have seen many risk their live to save others." HAHA, I like the Police Acamady movies as well. C'mon man

 

#8 "Don't call me or whine on Zero when the thugs come to your street." I'm already gonna have an uneducated trigger happy cop looking to kill anything that moves, Thanks, but 1 idiot is enough, so I won't be calling you. C'mon man

 

Well, this argument is as stupid as arguing over who was the best musical group, Lynyrd Skynyrd or the Wu Tang Clan. If you're on one side or the other, wake up and look for the real enemy. Sorry for my wasted post, but felt compelled to call out how pointless these guys are. Be honest and say you don't like blacks, it's cool. Just don't bark at someone who hates cops and preach the false narratives that Fox's The Five taught you last night.

 

PS- For the people who complain about ZH constantly all while posting daily about how they hate this site. Check out the rest of the internet! Theres Porn, Sports and some are a hybrid of both, really neat stuff. 

 

 

PSS. I understand that my screen name lets you know what side I'm on. I also have not been an official member of this site long, but have been on it several years now. So go ahead and down-vote away for being the guy who hates both sides of this argument and is not a long term ZH poster.........


Tue, 06/02/2015 - 22:21 | 6157810 teutonicate
teutonicate's picture

After reading your post, I realize that your comments (some of which were directed at my posts) illustrate the points I was trying to make better than anything I could have written - even if you probably will never know why.

Thanks PoliceThePolice.

Tue, 06/02/2015 - 22:15 | 6157852 PoliceThePolice
PoliceThePolice's picture

OH, I get it my friend. Now back to cracking that whip and making the world a better place one snide remark at a time. Sorry to take you away from your nightly ritual of dripping hot wax into your pee hole while screaming, I'M BETTER THEN THE REST, BECAUSE I SAID SO. 

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