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Greece Unable To Make €300 Million IMF Payment, Requests "Bundling"
With Greece and creditors unable to come to a compromise on a deal over the past several days, we've said repeatedly that despite claims to the contrary by Greek economy minister George Stathakis, Greece will not make Friday’s €300 million payment to the IMF and will instead request to have the payments bundled so as to buy PM Alexis Tsipras a few extra weeks to negotiate a deal and pass an agreement through parliament.
Indeed, we said the following on Sunday:
It's quite possible the sense of urgency around the negotiations has now eased because, as we mentioned on Saturday, it looks as though Greece can buy a few weeks by opting to "bundle" its June payments to the IMF, something the Greek government has denied (meaning it's probably assured) but which seems increasingly likely especially given cryptic comments like this one from economy minister George Stathakis:
- STATHAKIS SEES `TECHNICAL SOLUTION' SOON TO MEET IMF PAYMENTS
While it's unclear whether that means the country will find yet another channel by which they can ask creditors to pay themselves back as they did with the IMF last month or whether that's a reference to bundling the payments is unclear, but here's what Stathakis told Corriere della Sera:
"There shouldn't be any neeed [to bundle the payments]"
We shall see.
And then yesterday following the latest failure to reach a deal:
Pretty clear now Greece will bundle IMF June payments despite official spokesman's denial
— zerohedge (@zerohedge) June 3, 2015
However, Christine Lagarde was confident as recently as three hours ago:
IMF chief Christine Lagarde said Thursday that she was "confident" that Greece will make a key debt payment on Friday, as the country mulls a new proposal from official creditors.
Lagarde said the proposal offered by European creditors in talks Wednesday, with revised performance requirements for the Greek government, "clearly demonstrated significant flexibility on the part of the institutions."
Needless to say, we were rather skeptical when she said it:
LAGARDE SAYS GREEK PAYMENT BUNDLING DOESN'T APPEAR IN CARDS #timestamp
— zerohedge (@zerohedge) June 4, 2015
Now may be an opportune time for Lagarde to update everyone her "confidence" level, because moments ago, what we knew was inevitable, was confirmed:
- DJ GREECE SUBMITTED A REQUEST FOR BUNDLING JUNE IMF PAYMENTS INTO ONE -- GREEK GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL
And Reuters:
Greece has asked to bundle its four debt payments to the International Monetary Fund that fall due in June so that it can pay them in one batch at the end of the month, Greek newspaper Kathimerini reported on Thursday.
The request is expected to be approved by the IMF, the newspaper said. That would mean Greece does not have to pay the first tranche of 300 million euros that falls due on Friday.
Greece faces a total bill of 1.5 billion euros owed to the IMF over four installments this month.
And just like that, after effectively defaulting to the IMF a month ago, Greece has just re-effectively re-defaulted to the same IMF on its payment due tomorrow, which now will not be made, just as predicted.
Then, adding to the confusion, Greek PM Tsipras tweeted some token statement which for some inexpicable reason had a photo of himself in the tweet:
The Government will not accept extreme proposals. Our people have suffered enough during the past five years. #Greece pic.twitter.com/5wUSoNtw0I
— Alexis Tsipras (@tsipras_eu) June 4, 2015
All of the above of course indicates that Athens has rejected the proposal drafted by creditors on Tuesday and indeed we now have confirmation from the Greek finance ministry:
“After 4 months of negotiations, creditor institutions submitted proposals which can’t solve the riddle of the economic crisis caused by the policies implemented in the last 5 years. The proposals submitted would deepen poverty and unemployment”
“The agreement and solution which both Greece and Europe so badly need requires the immediate convergence of institutions to more realistic proposals, which will advance economic growth and social sensitivity. Greek government has submitted such proposals”
Just like that, Greece has called the troika's bluff and put the ball back into creditors' court. For their part, Europe expects a re-counter proposal to the troika's original counter proposal by June 8:
The Euro Working Group expects Greece to respond to an EU proposal to conclude the country’s bailout by June 8, according to a person familiar with the talks.
The farce continues.
In any event, with Friday's payment delayed, there are just a few more left.
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Yawn. Kick the can again. And again. And again.... Wake me up when they lose the can.
Avalanche coming, so take two steps back and you'll be safe. Can we hurry up and get to the exciting part?
Bundling. When Democratic Campaign Contribution Practices Count!
Lend me the money for a hamburger today and I will gladly pay you tuesday
Did he ask Jamie Dimon for the money? That guy is a billionaire...
Throw those pathetic Greeks out of Europe already. Let them crash hard into the wall. Throw them under the next bus. It´s the only way those Greek deadbeats will learn to lead a responsible life within their means and how to act and behave in a community of first world countries. No mercy, no indulgence for those Greek liars, cheaters and blackmailers. Throw them out.
That sounds like the same rhetoric you used in WWII.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Yep, Have noticed that the term "Forth Reich" has started to show up. Seems Germany wants to control the EU again. BTW, I have no dog in this fight and really don't care how it plays out just that it plays out without a Hot War.
I'm guessing the Greeks just need some time to take out an auto equity loan on every car in the country.
They should try to pay with Zimbabweyan dollars. ;)
Double Down!
I just farted and my fart shouted "Greece will make all of its payments not just on time, but early, as will all of PIIGS, Japan is ingood health, and China is seeing massive manufacturing and export growth again."
That was a healthy, if delusional, fart.
Must've been a long one to say all that. Congratz!
Ya think there’s a correlation between the Greek Bundle and the EUR/USD 300 pip ramp?
The EUR/USD is just climbing up onto the high board and getting ready to make another swan dive into the Greek panic pool.
wash - rinse - repeat
BTW, I have no dog in this fight and really don't care how it plays out just that it plays out without a Hot War.
How many US Dollars are in your wallet?
Have you ever heard of a Credit Default Swap?
Have you ever heard of the $1.5 Quadrillion Derivatives Market?
Have you ever heard of the term, "Fractional Reserve Banking"?
This is how it works...
If I am a Banker I only need a FRACTION, a SMALL FRACTION, of collateral on my books to be SOLVENT. The rest I can loan out. That paper, those Accounts Receivable, are DERIVATIVES.
Let's suppose that I have been so fucking GREEDY that I have loaned Greece 5% of my total Reserves. So I hold DERIVATIVES, Greek Bonds, promising to pay it back...with interest...HIGH RATES OF INTEREST...because of Greece's Credit problems.
Now let's suppose that the law requires me to hold 5% of deposits in RESERVE.
When Greece DEFAULTS then I lose THE PRINCIPAL on those bonds thus my Bank becomes INSOLVENT. If a small amount of that collateral...let's say 5%...is invested in Greek Bonds...which I have an incentive to own because of the high rates of return PROMISED...then I do not have 5% in RESERVE anymore because the Bonds become WORTHLESS upon DEFAULT. That is what a DEFAULT DOES!!!
But it gets worse in that other Banks have loaned their Capital to me. Now I cannot make the payments as I am technically insolvent. Those Banks, in turn, also become insolvent because of my decisions on what I did with the money which I borrowed from them to loan it to Greece in the first place....so that I can generate a high rate of return on investment for my Bank.
Thus THE ENTIRE EUROPEAN BANKING SYSTEM will face a CASCADE of Bank Failures. That mechanism, previously described, has happened.
But it gets even worse as US Banks have loaned the European Banks capital, Those European Banks will not be able to make payments to American Banks because the European Banks have become INSOLVENT. In turn we in the United States will also see the shockwave manifest of cascading Bank Failures.
The USA is NOT INSULATED from SYSTEMIC FAILURES of this sort. The Credit Collapse of 2008 is a PRIME EXAMPLE of that fact.
So we will either BAIL IN the US Banks...WITH YOUR DOLLARS...in order to save THE SYSTEM.
Or we print to infinity to try and save THE TOO BIG TO FAIL SYSTEM from IMPLOSION. And that DEVALUES the PURCHASING POWER of those US Dollars that you have in your wallet.
Because of GREECE'S INSOLVENCY, in either condition...YOU FUCKING LOSE!!!
You have no dog in this fight?
How fucking lame and naiive can you fucking be?
That all just means those with non-leveraged assets are in a better position then those without. So maybe he is, gasp: Hedged.
That is true unless you are in mega-debt...
like me.
dart
No. Anyone and everyone, including those holding more Dollars than tangible assets, are in mega-debt...like me.
In fact just what is your share of the National Debt? How many claims are there on the titles on any properties which you may think that you own?
Since there are 15 times as many derivatives as there is the tangible assets to back them then you can bet that there are 15 claims on what you believe you own outright.
And if you believe that your property itle is secure? Guess again. Who are you going to sue? Your bankrupted Title Insurance Company who failed to do their job?
A Derivatives implosion will affect EVERYONE....including the Ultra Wealthy.
big bank buys Greek bonds with 5% own money and 95% ECB money... so if a bond costs 1 billion big bank pays 50 million own money and borrows 950million air money from the ECB... what happens to the big bank if Greece defaults? The bank has to find the 95% loaned from the ECB (950million) to pay back the ECB... big bank is about to fail or enforce bail in when all of a sudden the Greek government steps in and offers to buy the bonds from big bank by taking out a loan (air money) from Troika for the Greek people to have to pay the next 50 years through taxation... the president of Big bank comes to Greece to personally thank the IDIOT leader who saved his bank...
Well that is if there is still FAITH, TRUST and CONFIDENCE that the Greek Leader will make good on his promises to reform and follow through with the terms andconditions of the contract AND...
...that the following future Greek Leaders will make good on their promises...FOR THE NEXT FIFTY YEARS.
Now personally I would not have much faith, no trust at all, or any confidence that the Greek Leadership will follow through, or their antecedents will follow through for the next FIFTY YEARS. And I am rather REASONABLE in this postulation as Political whims are rather DYNAMIC.
Currently the Greeks have demonstrated that they will now follow through as they are both unwilling and unable tomeet the terms and conditions set even one month ago.
So if I were the Big Bank Lender then I would be very hesitant to loan to proven deadbeats. I'd pass the buck and say. "Let somebody else do it."
Thus the entire SYSTEM IMPLODES when there is a lack of Faith, Trust and Confidence.
Can you say WORLD CREDIT FREEZE II?
Oh am I waiting for September...
At times raising Interest Rates can have an affect that an institution is in trouble and is no longer worthy of receiving loans. That is a hint of a Bank's INSOLVENCY and is an UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE of any Financial entity raising Interest Rates in order to strengthen its financial position.
This is why the Pound was devalued against the Mark and why there was a run on the Bank of England which made one George Soros very, very wealthy in the 1990s.
Germany ALREADY ARe controlling the EU. And I have been saying this for a while now: If Hitler is around today he will smile and shake Merkel's hand and tell her: " I didnt manage to conquire Europe yet you managed without firing a single shot! Well played!"
I just got off the phone with my bank, I requested my mortgage and my car payments to be bundled till the end of the year. I'll keep you guys posted on what the reply is.
You only requested till the end of the year? Small thinker.
I asked that they be bundled to the end of the Decade.
Just what is a Balloon Payment anyway?
It was just some fraudulent means of qualifying a Sub Prime Loan initiate before the last bust.
Just roll it over...until you cannot. Financial implosion and ruin is the end result of that trick.
You only requested till the end of the decade? Small thinker.
I asked that they be bundled to the end of the millennium.
LOL
And the end result?
"I just got off the phone with my bank, I requested my mortgage and my car payments to be bundled till the end of the year. I'll keep you guys posted on what the reply is."
Keep us posted! The sovereigns have central banks, bully pulpits, a fawning press and an ignorant public, before they even dial. What have you/we got? We need a PR department and some politicians in our pockets...wonder how much that'll cost us (starting with our souls...)?
The next time (after all this is over) WWII will sound like a sweet, sweet kids party to Germany. These Fuckers will eat their Euros for breakfast, lunch and supper. By the TRILLIONS.
Let Douche Bank implode and you will see the Fourth Reich failling like the 3 Reichs before...the 1000-Years Reich only lasted 12 fucking years. The next Reich will be over, faster than your grandmother could fart!
And Washington DC isn't full of lying, cheating, blackmailing thieves and murderers? That is first world. The Greeks just aren't slick enough yet.
Bill Gates could bail these clowns out for 5 years.
All this drama over chump change -
You do not get it...
Why should Bill Gates bail them out? That would set a very bad precedent. The FED can bail them out of the whole fiasco with ease.
But then they'd just repeat the process...
But you do not understand the implications of this.
Watch the following video and imagine that the Dominos are Banks...
The mechanism is described in a previous post on this thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y97rBdSYbkg
Think of that tiniest domino as the DEFAULT of the Greek Bond.
It was one Bank in France, Penzias, in 2007, if i recollect correctly, that began the cascading failures that led upto the entire World Market Credit Freeze of 2008.
You can deny that it can happen if you want, if it makes you sleep any better. But the sad truth is that the denial will not change the reality as there is evidence to the contrary.
The obvious question is why they were allowed to join the EU in the first place. Since Goldman Sachs managed their paper entry i can only imagine their ultimate plans, but we all know they can't be good. Even the BIS has stated publically that the worlds central banks are in dire straights. Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Paul Craig Roberts have all called for the insanity of the FED to end. And it will. The BIS will maintain global order with a collection of strong currencies including gold and silver. The Bankers will be villified, and Rand Paul will ascend to presidency. But only after the shit hits the fan all over the world with people dying, looting and starving before they move again, and the people will beg for it. Greece will be the reason, and the central bank's greed the motive. The perfect scapegoats, the perfect plan.
There's a reason the military is conducting Jade Helm at this point in time.
Do you think that this was a Financial strike against the EU in the first place?
Are you suggesting that GS was concerned that the Euro was going to compete against US Dollar hegemony?
So are you postulating that GS set up Greece to be the fly in the ointment to bring Europe down?
Now I am not in disagreement...at all. I wish that I could be.
But the unintended consequence of that, if true, is that GS will also implode the entire God damned world. What in the hell were they thinking?
How old is that dude or girl Wolferl again? Twelve?
psycopath - get some help
@Wolferl: I've decided I'm going to be your lone up-vote from now on. Only because you are so consistent, not necessarily because I agree with you.
getting this sneay suspicion that Wolferl is MDB's cousin twice removed...
I'm holding out for proper emphasis, including exclamation points.
The Kid's got moxy!
"Throw those pathetic Greeks out of Europe already. Let them crash hard into the wall. Throw them under the next bus. It´s the only way those Greek deadbeats will learn to lead a responsible life within their means and how to act and behave in a community of first world countries. No mercy, no indulgence for those Greek liars, cheaters and blackmailers. Throw them out."
You know.....I'm actually starting to lean that way a bit. I mean, they didn't have to run their country into the ground with debt and then run to their E.U. butt buddies for a bailout. Shit or get off the pot, Greece. Go ahead and leave the E.U. if freedom is so important to you. Otherwise, pay back the fucking debt.
Or ask your Greek compatriot Jamie Dimon. He's a Greek billionaire.
but
is it not the case by asking for the payments to be bundled, the Greeks push the payment date down to the end of June and maintain their vote/veto in the EU?
This also coincides with the time that the EU sanctions on Russia expire unless they are unanimously extended.
Is there any doubt that Russia is consorting with Greece about paying the IMF?
2+2 = 4 and not 5.
Moarfail
The fact[?] that "bundling" enables full EU membership rights, re voting on sanctions, is a demonstration that world-class thinkers are at work.
The Greece situation is not at all some chess-savvy game. Chess has absolute rules that are fully transparent and also a transparent referee with total authority.
In real life, there is no absolute set of rules, nor transparency nor referee. In fact, there is insanity, schizophrenia, conflicting commands and, well... endless loop spinning aimed to produce moarfail.
Moarfail can only be handled by stepping outside the boobytrapped homosap-mind and, somehow, bypassing the moarfail track.
Unfortunately, I do not know how to do that.
Look, I don't have the foggiest idea whether being in default, temporarily or not, costs a member state it's voting rights.
If it's not specifically mentioned in the rules and by-laws, I'm sure one of the US's toadies will move to deny Greece its vote. From my understanding of it, then an objection by just one country will defeat that motion.
I'm glad not to know. I have so few brain cells left.
Plus the only things worth knowing are private pieces of information known only by a few.
The article says that 1.5 billion euros are due at the end of the month.
A pretty insignificant amount for Russia to come up with to end the sanctions.
WTF were the EU, IMF and other creditors thinking when loaned to Greece or bought their bonds? If they had 2 functioning brain cells they would have looked at Greek finances before making the loans and seen that repayment was impossible and default inevitable.
Anyone who was stupid enough to make those loans in the first place deserves whatever they get. They knew (or should have known) it was throwing money down a hole when they made their stupid loans. Why bail out those idiots who made the loans? Let them take the loses they so richly deserve.
Wolferl
>>Throw those pathetic Greeks out of Europe already.
Yer but I'd miss my greek olives. Not the same as the Spanish or Italian flavors.
Tell you a secret. A lot of the "Italian" olives and olive oil is from Greece actually. The Greeks are not even capable to market their own agricultural produce. Shows you how fucked up this country really is.
Greece doesn't pay on time and Schäuble got weak again (for the x time). These are the facts.
Throw this pathetic troll out of the comments section already.
HEIL HITLER HERR OBERSTLEUTNANT WOLFERL!
I hope the Greeks take you down with them. You will go so down...World War II will feel like a Victory!
Hilariious, Germany owes Greece between 280 - 300 billion Euros WW2 gold loan and unpaid reparations, FACTUALLY the Germans are deadbeats and iresponsible, their present behaviour confirms, assinine politicans just too thick to be of any use, luckily rampant immigration into Germany from Afghanistan, Syria, Turkey with the blessing of Merkel should bring some fresh thinking into Germany :) We watch amuzed as another German Imperial scheme collapses over Germany
They should call Creflo Dollar. He has this money thing aced.
Is this like the Brack Friday Bunduru?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF_vKXrOtY8
In 2057 they only owe $1.1 billion so they have that going for them.
Of course then there wont be a Euro, instead it will be a world conglomerate bank that runs countries how it sees fit, and Greece will once again be the scapegoat of the world's 'countries that arent 3rd world but arent not 3rd world'
Hey check 2051!
COME ON 2049!!! Greece's DEBT Jubilee year!!!
Too bad the greeks aren't Lanasters
cuz
"A Lanaster always pays his debts"
Game of thrones
One thing regime change used to offer nations was an ability to go through a revolution and then repudiate the old regimes debts. But in the age of super national entities like the EU, individual nations are locked into the super national farmework [Euro] and have no wiggle room. No matter the government, revolution, or regime change, the debt mechanism is untouchable and the currency can not be devalued. This is the argument against the EU, it prevents local control in near totality. The EU even now makes demands on how many immigrants a nation must take, how much welfare they must be given and can print money over the heads of all member governments. Brussels is hell, it should never have been formed, it will now fight to maintain it's powers, only full scale revolution and warfare can unseat the Brussel Parliament from their high paid and powerful corrupt seats.
"the debt mechanism is untouchable and the currency can not be devalued"
regardless from any arguments for or against the EU, the whole eurozone/EUR thing is not the totalitarian constriction you are trying to build a case for
Greece can bring the Drachma back. It's only the question if it wants to bring the Drachma back, and it's people are still not for it
"The EU even now makes demands on how many immigrants a nation must take..."
oh, stop it. we have, however you want to put it, an immigration crisis in Europe. and those at the borders, for example Italy, are proposing a scheme throughout the EU to share the load
don't put it as if Brussels was giving unilateral orders about it because it's simply not true, don't put it as if the Brussel Parliament had any say in the matter before there is a majority in the EU Council for it, which then again would mean there is a majority of countries of the EU for the scheme
and this, in a nutshell, is the modus operandi of the EU: first the countries have a deal, then it goes in front of the EU Parliament, and then it's a "EU thing"
Did the offical's name happen to be "Flo"......
but doesn't bundling save one money?
Classic can kick!
Scene: EU Progressive Insurance Store
Euro Flo is fussing with packages of price guns on a display rack
[Voice from off camera] "WHERE's Flo? Does anyone know where Flo is??"
Tsipras's Wife: [with bad weave] "Are YOU Flo?"
Euro Flo: [terrified] "Yeah..."
Tsipras's Wife: [points to display] "Is THIS the thing you gave my husband?"
Euro Flo: [Enthusiastically] "Well yeah... yeah. It's the 'Name Your Price' tool. You tell us the price you want to pay and we give you a range of options to choose from. Careful though, that kind of power can go to your head."
Tsipras's Wife: "Well, that explains a lot"
Cut to scene of Tsipras juggling chainsaws
Tsipras: "Hey, this isn't too hard." [fumbles one and cuts arm clean off]
Tsipras: [screaming in agony] "Yani! Help me. I'm bleeding to death."
Varoufakis: "Hang on. I'm on the phone with Euro Flo checking on the option that is right for us."
Off-screen Vocalist: "It's BUNDLE time"
Another Vocalist: "BUN-DLLLLLE!"
Euro Flo: "Look, Yani... the more you bundle, the more you save."
Vroufakis: "So I can bundle the payments we couldn't make into a new payment we can't make?"
Euro Flo: "Yeah. Isn't it great? Go ahead... name your price on your bundle!"
Vroufakis: "But I'm worried about rate suckers, Flo. I don't want Greece to pay higher rates because of future EU deadbeats."
Euro Flo: "No need to worry - with the EU's new 'Snapshot' USB stick, we can monitor your payments and make sure you get the lowest rates."
Vroufakis: "Wait... we have to make payments?"
Euro Flo: "NO silly. We take your government obligations like payroll and public assistance along with your IMF obligations and run it through 'The Bundler'".
Vroufakis: "Damn. This is just what Greece needs. What do you think, Alexi?"
Tsipras: "I'm almost gone. I can't feel my legs. I... I think I can see my grandma."
Scene: Progressive Insurance Store
well done :)
+10
I should have put in a disclaimer for non-USAians: This parodies a long-running string of U.S. television commercials for an auto insurance company called Progressive Insurance. It will not make sense unless you had been subject to their mind-numbing years of commercials.
Can't they just get one of those Nigerian guys to write them a cheque ?
Greece is now defaulted-er.
But hey, that's the US too ain't it?
Repeat after me people:
"There will be no defaults.
- When Greece does not pay, it is not called a default.
- When your bank won't give you your money, its not called a default
- When the Comex won't fails to deliver the gold, its not called a default
- When your pension benefits are slashed its not called a default.
- When your Social Security cheques stop arriving, its not called a default
- When your tax refund is issued as an IOU, that's not a default.
- When the IOU is not honoured, its a not a default."
When the pleebs don't make a mortage payment to a bank, its called defaut.
banks are institutions doing god's work
what do you have to offer?
Not much. They've pretty well taken it all.
<-- 'Bundling'. Code for "CFM. Again."
<-- 'Bundling'. Code for "Peace in our time."
MASSIVE short squeeze and market to ATHs tomorrow on GreekFix...
It's all Bullshit!!! The EU and IMF can print more money out of thin air. Greece will get its loan so they can pay the interest on the loan they already took out. The fucking bankers can keep this toxic shit on their books as if they are triple A rated stuff that's being paid off. The crooked banksters can show their shareholders how they are making $$$billions and the bank shares keep rising. The circle jerk is complete and nobody bitches.
bah! Still not worried about it.
Fine. So they can't make one payment now but they WILL be able to make the two payments together next time.
What a joke.
DavidC
Your using basic logic and that's not allowed.....
"I'll gladly pay you tuesday for a gyro today." -- Wimpy Socialist
I will gladly pay you tuesday for a hamburger today
If you will loan me more money, I will gladly repay you the money I already borrowed from you to buy that gyro that I ate last week.
Hey, nothing new here, they're just rolling over debt. What's the fuzz?
Salaries and pensions will be paid
"Don't worry" Tsirpas, June 3rd
As expected. I still wonder, however, is Tsipras still hoping to get any concessions in these talks? Or is he just trying to say to his people, look I did the utmost but an exit is inevitable at this stage at least I tried until the very end!
Let's see...
No --
Tsipras is (deceptively)
"just trying to say to his people, look I did the utmost but"
this is now the best deal we can get.
This. Drag it out till the end, fight the good fight, then wave the white flag and say you did your best. Then take the suitcase of cash to Switzerland.
Syriza people already have their own cash safe in Switzerland...
Ahhh the old "No payments for 6 months" routine. Guess it is good for more than furniture?
pods
"The check's in the mail".
"Just the tip"
I'll gladly pay you Tuesday... What a farce.
Why do we even bother having contracts and laws any more? They're more meaningless than a handshake and a stern look in the eye.
Yes, moral hazard can be a real motherfucker like that...
same as it ever was...
How is this different than Porky declaring a moratorium on repaying Ukie debts?
Porky is not in an EU member country
Contracts are sacred... or something.
Why don't they just make a 1 quadrillion euro payment at the end of never?
1 quadrillion won't be enough.
How long before we see the first millionaire on foodstamps?
They could ask Obama to send over a couple of Trillon Euro coins.
I qualified just last week
Funniest comment I read all month.
How long is this nonsense going to continue? Just leave already.
better idea, let's not call it a default and "bundle" all missed payments with the last one in 2100. voila, no default! so easy!
what a bunch of scumbag, worthless people...FIFA would be proud
So you dont like the color of the paper the bill is on...and at the last minute you ask them to change the color.....I get it....the only bundleing the Greeks will be doing is in the winter to keep from freezing to death...
I don't think that's too much of an issue in a Mediterranean climate...
LOL! not if they allow the russians to build those pipelines. Speaking of freezing, how much oil and gas is in the E.Z. again?
Fuck em, fuck em all.
Ive got it !
The Greeks should all take "cash out" loans against their cars and send the money to the ECB ! Somebody call PNC Bank and get on this ...
Has PNC opened a line of cash for donkeys?
Will Greece even be a country in 10 years? Like taking out a 100 year bond/student loan. Just belly up before you have to pay.
Will the Earth even be a planet in 10 years?
Or will we still be pathetic Whinger Walkers from beyond the Wall?
If they don't make their payment tomorrow then they are in default. Period the end. Anyone with CDS should be demanding payment tomorrow.
A missed payment is a default. Default and bankrupt are not the same thing. One default/missed payment doesn't necessarily imply bankrupt.
Just more less creative lies to keep the illusion going. I guess the algos are not programmed to react to the word bundle. A missed payment is a missed payment, double payment later or not.
The US has defaulted twice already, though they weren't anywhere near to bankruptcy as Greece currently is.
http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/16/government-default-its-already-happene...
...
According to Connie Cass of The Associated Press, the U.S. government “briefly stiffed some of its creditors on at least two occasions.” The first default took place in November 1814, during the administration of James Madison, America’s tiniest chief executive. Just a few months after the British conquest of Washington, D.C. during the War of 1812, the Treasury was unable to move enough precious metal to service its debt, and missed interest payments on bonds. Boston bondholders, according to Wayne State College history professor Don Hickey, were paid off in short-term interest-bearing treasury notes or more bonds. These debt service troubles, and the war, were resolved within a few months.
A more recent default came in 1979 under President Carter, who, until Obama, held the record for presiding over the country’s longest post-World War II period of economic stagnation. Cass attributes the ’79 default to “a back-office glitch that ended up costing taxpayers billions of dollars.” She writes, “The Treasury Department blamed the mishap on a crush of paperwork partly caused by lawmakers who — this will sound familiar — bickered too long before raising the nation’s debt limit.”
...
They are just playing linguistic bullshit games to keep the algos from wrecking their precious nash equilibrium rigged markets until they can come up with a 'technical' computer network fix. Algos trade on empty words they don't need to hope or believe they can fly like Peter Pan, they just need you to say it so they can trade it.
A missed payment is not really a default. Usually within the contract there are very specific rules, grace periods, etc. It's not like your cable gets cut if you are a few days late on a payment. Just sayin'.
On the CDS side, it is not a default unless they say it is. That's even sketchier.
BTW, it's already been established that missed payments to the IMF and ECB is not a default.
You either make the payment when you are supposed to or you don't...........
Flowery language and or legalize aside. It is all just linguistic bullshit smokescreens to obscure that little fact.
I agree, I'm just saying that if you are expecting a "default" in the legal sense, you're probably going to be disappointed.
Since we are talking linguistic semantics and bullshit there are 2 types of missed payments.
default - payment has not been made
insolvent - payment can't be made
They missed the fucking payment so it is default until 'bundle' time comes and they don't make that one also then it is can they or can't they make the payment. That determines insolvent next.
Then if we want to split linguistic hairs there are 2 types of default
debt services default and 'technical' default.
A missed payment is a de-fucking fault now matter how you spin the linguistic bullshit.
OK, they defaulted, but it only matters if they technically default.
For hopium purposes
I quote from elsewhere on this one.
"Debt service default occurs when the borrower has not made a scheduled payment of interest or principal. Technical default occurs when an affirmative or a negative covenant is violated."
And to split it even further see how the extend and pretend bullshit game works.
"Affirmative covenants are clauses in debt contracts that require firms to maintain certain levels of capital or financial ratios. The most commonly violated restrictions in affirmative covenants are tangible net worth, working capital/short term liquidity, and debt service coverage."
But debt service coverage is the same as a debt service default!
"Negative covenants are clauses in debt contracts that limit or prohibit corporate actions (e.g. sale of assets, payment of dividends) that could impair the position of creditors. Negative covenants may be continuous or incurrence-based. Violations of negative covenants are rare compared to violations of affirmative covenants.
With most debt (including corporate debt, mortgages and bank loans) a covenant is included in the debt contract which states that the total amount owed becomes immediately payable on the first instance of a default of payment. Generally, if the debtor defaults on any debt to the lender, a cross default covenant in the debt contract states that that particular debt is also in default."
See how a simple missed payment has been turned in a game theory probabilistic clusterfuck for algos to trade on by using bullshit legalize to create unnecessarily complex decision trees they can use to maintain nash equilibriums. Notice they won't use the key words and use terms like bundle which is not a legalize term. The more bullshit and options you create the longer you can extend and lie.
"With most debt (including corporate debt, mortgages and bank loans) a covenant is included in the debt contract which states that the total amount owed becomes immediately payable"
Perhaps, but the specific rules of IMF loans is not that. There is a protocol for the entire thing. I believe technical default does not occur until 30 days after the missed payment. The rules were posted here on ZH a few weeks ago.
Look, I don't really care so much, but you are harping on general definitions of words to describe what is nothing more than a legal contract. The credit / loan does not exist on any other plane than what is defined in that specific contract. It's all legaleze precisely because it is a legal contract and nothing more.
Not only is it both a technical and debt service default but also most likely a cross default at the same time. It is game over for Greece and the IMF unless they come up with more linguistic bullshit to muddy the probabilities even further while coming up with new linguistic bullshit to keep the algos from acting like algos.
However the contract is worded that doesn't get published nor do the algos trade on that contract wording, they trade on news headlines.
Then it shouldn't matter if it is a simple legal contract and nothing more from a market standpoint...
They should be able to default and call it exactly that if it doesn't matter, the newspeak shouldn't matter. it especially shouldn't matter if it is humans trading the markets since they should be able to see through the linguistic bullshit and override the algos.
You're exactly right. It is indeed linguistic bullshit.
I'm not exactly sure why the IMF and the European Union are the only ones allowed to determine if Greece is in default. The whole thing is monetary make-believe.
Let the public decide. If enough people call it a default, then it should be regarded as a default.
We see the plan is 40+ more years of debt payments for Greece.
"bundling"... Call In Frank from American Pickers.
Nice Move ! Tsipras is waiting for the 3B$ prepayment from Russia for the Turkish stream agreement signed in April
Let's go all the way: bundle all the payments and sell the shit cake in wall street. Someone will buy it for sure.
A quick glance, thought I saw "Greece Requests Bungling", then realized they've enjoyed that for years ...
ah the joys of unsecured loans and the deadbeats who refuse to pay them... and still the hopeless stupidity of spending our way out of debt continues.
turbo long in nail guns & ammo for them!!!
Does this mean what I think it does?
Yep. The default will not be a default.
Can't they just bundle all the payments and sell them off as securities like the mortgage industry. it seems a sweet way to handled it. Let the big banks buy the securities. Then when they are not redeemable some central bank can bail them out cuz they are too big to fail. eeeeasy peasy
This was proven to be a perfect solution here!
Golly, gee....has Greece ever declared bankruptcy and defaulted in their long history?
Default on all of it already! You will have new creditors beating down the doors in about 10 seconds.
Meanwhile in the USA......plutocracy/oligarchy 2016! Your vote is shit!
Just bundle all those payments and they'll make the final one in 2057. Problem solved!
History show's they're good for it.
This is a slow motion train wreck...
Here is the hopium they are pushing, Greece, Japan, EU, etc.
R Kelly - I Believe I Can Fly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIQn8pab8Vc
Which translates to
R Kelly - I Wanna Pee On You (Dave Chappelle Show)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syqo3L-WbCo
I forgot about that Chapelle skit. Now that's some funny stuff.
They need a credit card consolidation loan with low low payments you can easily afford.
Give the IMF their cars.
"LAGARDE SAYS GREEK PAYMENT BUNDLING DOESN'T APPEAR IN CARDS "
Huh...apparently Ms. LaGarde is under the impression that any of what happens is in her control...
I think the oompa loompa might be looking at the $809 million that the Greek government had on deposit at the beginning of last month, and the "new" amount of the supposed next payment and seeing the problem...
Watching these folks at work reminds me of the cartoon from Gary Larsen's The Far Side. Outside the gates of the School for the Gifted, a small boy pushes on the door clearly marked "PULL"...
Keep pushing guys...it's sure to open any minute now...
Just due in the month June, and must be paid out of whatever of that 809 million EUR is left plus excess tax collections (net of above OpEx).
1,574 million EUR due to the IMF
5,200 million in short term treasuries that must either be rolled or repaid
So how can they say "deal imminent" if Greece says "no pay" to IMF.
Troika on the rocks and Lady Lagarde looking like Cruella.
What will Juncker now say?
Will he tell Tipsy : have good week end. I have a dictator to hang in Budapest and another to mate in Ukraine?
Eu now one big geopolitical mine where its getting difficult to tread lightly. Except of course if you are Juncker who is drunk on words most of the time during meeting after meeting. Hey, the wine is good in Brussels!
Lets hope Mutti is rich enuff to save the world.
Just read the new Greek reform proposal - swimming pools and helicopters will be taxed. Seeing that every Greek family has at least one swimming pool and a helicopter they will easily be able to pay back the 1.5 billion euros and have change for ouzo.
This is now a minefield. By statute the interest cannot be bundled only the capital element. I don't know what the mix is of the initial 300 Euro due tomorrow but something will have to be paid. Secondly the IMF should have / may still say no as strictly speaking it can only be used for administrative purposes i.e efficiency gains i.e you have two or three payments falling due in small time frame , say a couple or so days. This is clearly not an administrative issue but an affordability issue and by the IMF criteria should not be allowed !!!
This is now a minefield. By statute the interest cannot be bundled only the capital element. I don't know what the mix is of the initial 300 Euro due tomorrow but something will have to be paid. Secondly the IMF should have / may still say no as strictly speaking it can only be used for administrative purposes i.e efficiency gains i.e you have two or three payments falling due in small time frame , say a couple or so days. This is clearly not an administrative issue but an affordability issue and by the IMF criteria should not be allowed !!!
But the can keeps getting bigger, Snowball effect
I think they mean BUNGLING.
That is what they have been doing all along.
How does this work out for CDS and derivatives holders?
As expected.
Wake me up when ISDA get's downgraded by Moody's.
No cash Greece? we'll take zeee Gold instead....
If you have any...
I find it interesting that NO ONE is actually trying to solve the real problems and instead are trying to find a way to keep the problems happening.
Kind of the definition of insanity... unless one benefits from continued problems. yeah, exactly ...
When are the adults going to arrive on the scene? (and I mean globally, not just with Greece). It is time for all the children pretending to be global leaders to take their nap so that adults can clean up.