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The War on Free Speech Accelerates: DoJ Subpoenas Reason.com Over Comment Section
Submitted by Mike Krieger via Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,
The United States Department of Justice is using federal grand jury subpoenas to identify anonymous commenters engaged in typical internet bluster and hyperbole in connection with the Silk Road prosecution. DOJ is targeting Reason.com, a leading libertarian website…
The D.C. court was right — the government won’t start issuing grand jury subpoenas every time someone writes “my husband left underwear on the bathroom floor again; I could just kill him.” But they won’t because they don’t have the time, inclination, or the resources.
Instead, they will use their discretion to decide when to bring their vast power into play to pierce the anonymity of internet assholes (or for that matter, people who may have valid points on political matters but express them in the wrong fashion). That discretion is much more likely to be exercised where, as here, the person being trash-talked is a powerful federal judge in the district of that U.S. Attorney’s Office, a judge that the office must appear before every damned day. The power is more likely to be exercised on behalf of establishment political figures, not outsiders. The power is more likely to be exercised when it is consistent with the politics of the administration.
The D.C. court implies that we can trust federal prosecutors to use the grand jury power to pierce the anonymity of political firebrands even when their rhetoric is clearly protected by the First Amendment. That the government will investigate anonymous political rhetoric in even-handed fashion, whether that rhetoric comes from a magazine known to be friendly to the government and its establishment, or one that is, like Reason, prone to question both.
– From the excellent Popehat article: Department Of Justice Uses Grand Jury Subpoena To Identify Anonymous Commenters on a Silk Road Post at Reason.com
Readers of Liberty Blitzkrieg will be well aware of the gradual erosion by the state of the civil liberties of the American public. Such attacks are typically sufficiently under the radar, so that the average citizen has no idea what is happening until it’s too late. I have written about such calculated assaults on many occasions, but the holy grail target of the status quo is the First Amendment of the Constitution, which enshrines a right to the freedom of religion, speech, the press, and the right to peaceably assemble and petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Many aspects of the First Amendment have been neutered in practice. For example, the right to assemble peacefully and effectively is often prevented in practice by the need to secure permits and other hindrances (see “free speech cages” and “protest zones”) . Meanwhile, on college campuses, where activism is historically most vibrant, many schools have embraced the Orwellian concept of “free speech zones” in order to prevent free speech. See:
California Student Banned from Handing Out Constitutions on Campus
In the first article, we learned that:
Administrators further clarified their level of respect for students’ free speech rights, making comments like, “This isn’t really the ’60s anymore,” and “people can’t really protest like that anymore,” according to the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education.
Administrators also maintained that university policy took precedent over Constitutional rights, according to the complaint.
Moving along, what about a free press? While the press in America is technically “free,” with six companies owning 90% of all media, the public, in practice, is essentially force-fed status quo propaganda 24/7.
This reality has resulted in an explosion in web-based alternative media, which at this moment in time, represents the greatest thorn in the side of the status quo. Naturally, the state can’t directly confront alternative media due to its extraordinary popularity, so it is seemingly starting to target its edges via the comment section.
Today’s must read piece examines this coming threat, and was published on a blog called Popehat, which sports the tagline: A Group Complaint about Law, Liberty, and Leisure. Here’s an excerpt from its About page:
Since a number of Popehat’s authors are attorneys, work in closely related fields, or have strong interests in politics, law is also a relative constant in the site’s focus. Nevertheless, though it may seem to be at times, this is not a “law blog” as such. Ultimately, the subject of Popehat is whatever the author of a given post wishes to discuss, aided by a good community of readers and commenters, whose thoughts and feedback are greatly appreciated.
Believe it or not, some of us actually have jobs. Our employers have nothing whatsoever to do with this site. The views, rants, and tequila hallucinations uttered here do not represent the views of our employers and/or secure psychiatric facilities. Also, nothing on this blog is meant to give you legal advice. Seriously. Apparently we have to tell some of you that.
Yesterday, I came across an article at Popehat with extremely significant implications. It regards federal grand jury subpoenas recently issued to libertarian publication Reason, by the U.S. Justice Department, for information about people who made anonymous comments on the site. Since author Ken White described the situation better than I ever could, here are excerpts from the article:
The United States Department of Justice is using federal grand jury subpoenas to identify anonymous commenters engaged in typical internet bluster and hyperbole in connection with the Silk Road prosecution. DOJ is targeting Reason.com, a leading libertarian website whose clever writing is eclipsed only by the blowhard stupidity of its commenting peanut gallery.
Why is the government using its vast power to identify these obnoxious asshats, and not the other tens of thousands who plague the internet?
Because these twerps mouthed off about a judge.
Last week, a source provided me with a federal grand jury subpoena. The subpoena, issued by the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York, is directed to Reason.com in Washington, D.C.. The subpoena commands Reason to provide the grand jury “any and all identifying information” Reason has about participants in what the subpoena calls a “chat.”
Several commenters on the post found the sentence unjust, and vented their feelings in a rough manner. The grand jury subpoena specifies their comments and demands that Reason.com produce any identifying information on them:
The grand jury subpoena specifies that it is seeking “evidence in regard to an alleged violation of: Title 18, United States Code, Section 875.” In other words, the U.S. Attorney’s Office is looking for evidence of violations of the federal law against interstate threats. That’s the same statute that was at issue in the Supreme Court’s decision in Elonis v. U.S. last week, in which the Court decided that to be a “true threat” in violation of Section 875, the speaker must have some level of knowledge or intent that the hearer will take the threat seriously.
This is interesting, because just last week I highlighted 20 comments on a Wall Street Journal article, some of which were far more violent and aggressive. See: “Revolution is Coming” – The Top 20 Responses to Jon Hilsenrath’s Idiotic WSJ Article.
Did the WSJ also receive subpoenas? Now, back to Popehat:
Since the comments are about a judge, if they are “true threats” they could conceivably also violate Title 18, U.S.C., section 115(a), which prohibits threatening federal judges.
The subpoena raises a few questions:
First, are Those Comments True Threats?
Are the Reason.com Comments “True Threats?” No. NO. AND HELL NO!
“True Threats” are those threats that are outside the protection of the First Amendment; they are not mere political hyperbole or bluster. For instance, in 1967, when Mr. Watts said that if he were drafted the first man he’d want in his rifle sights was President Lyndon B. Johnson, that wasn’t a true threat:it was conditional political hyperbole. In other words, it was mere angry bluster of the sort no reasonable person would take to be a serious threat.
What of these comments on Reason.com, then? I submit that they are very clearly not true threats — that this is not even a close call.
The “threats” do not specify who is going to use violence, or when. They do not offer a plan, other than juvenile mouth-breathing about “wood chippers” and revolutionary firing squads. They do not contain any indication that any of the mouthy commenters has the ability to carry out a threat. Nobody in the thread reacts to them as if they are serious. They are not directed to the judge by email or on a forum she is known to frequent.
There are no factors like that in this case. Consider this purported “threat”:
Is it the position of the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York that a reasonable reader would conclude that “Rhywun” is in league with the Dark Ones, able to bring into existence a hot place in the afterlife for an errant judge? Ridiculous. If that’s a threat, then so is “go to Hell.”
So: the government has used the grand jury to subpoena a news magazine for the identity of anonymous commenters who have engaged in political rhetoric that is clearly protected by the First Amendment.
Can they get away with this?
Regrettably, The Government Can Probably Abuse the Grand Jury Subpoena Power This Way
Reason.com — or the anonymous commenters — could file an action in federal court seeking to quash this subpoena. We know how that would likely come out, because someone recently did it. During the 2012 election cycle a juvenile but prolific Twitter personality named “Mr. X” tweeted “I want to fuck Michelle Bachman in the ass with a Vietnam era machete.” The government subpoenaed Twitter for Mr. X’s identifying information; Mr. X filed a motion to quash the subpoena. The United States District Court for the District of Columbia rejected the motion.
But here’s where Mr. X learned the difference between individual rights and government power. The court conceded that the tweet was almost certainly not an actionable true threat:
Yet the court found that the government had a “compelling interest” in investigating all threats, however ridiculous:
The court conceded that this could produce absurd results, but hand-waved that concern away:
The Court is aware that this conclusion may seem to produce absurd results. Under this line of reasoning, the government could presumably subpoena any Web site any time any anonymous user made any post containing a mere scintilla of violence. The government could require Twitter to divulge the identity of a teenager who tweets, “My parents are so mean! I want to toss them in a ditch.” Anonymity on the Internet would be sufficiently compromised to warrant this Court’s concern.11 But we are nowhere near that slippery slope. Here, an individual has made a statement that threatens an established candidate for the presidential nomination of one of our two major political parties, and the government has a strong public interest in investigating that threat, however outlandish.
Read that over and over again, until you realize how incredibly absurd and dangerous that court argument is.
Should The Government Exercise Power To Identify Anonymous People Over Clear Bluster?
The D.C. court was right — the government won’t start issuing grand jury subpoenas every time someone writes “my husband left underwear on the bathroom floor again; I could just kill him.” But they won’t because they don’t have the time, inclination, or the resources.
Instead, they will use their discretion to decide when to bring their vast power into play to pierce the anonymity of internet assholes (or for that matter, people who may have valid points on political matters but express them in the wrong fashion). That discretion is much more likely to be exercised where, as here, the person being trash-talked is a powerful federal judge in the district of that U.S. Attorney’s Office, a judge that the office must appear before every damned day. The power is more likely to be exercised on behalf of establishment political figures, not outsiders. The power is more likely to be exercised when it is consistent with the politics of the administration.
The D.C. court implies that we can trust federal prosecutors to use the grand jury power to pierce the anonymity of political firebrands even when their rhetoric is clearly protected by the First Amendment. That the government will investigate anonymous political rhetoric in even-handed fashion, whether that rhetoric comes from a magazine known to be friendly to the government and its establishment, or one that is, like Reason, prone to question both.
A Note On The U.S. Attorney’s Office Reaction To My Inquiries About This Story
On Friday, June 5th, the day after a source sent me the subpoena, I decided to call Niketh Velamoor, the Assistant U.S. Attorney who issued the subpoena. My purpose was to tell him that I would not print the subpoena if he could convince me that he had specific evidence demonstrating that to do so would put a life in danger. Mr. Velamoor — who said he could not discuss grand jury investigations, which is the standard AUSA statement — said that it was unreasonable to expect the government to be able to prove such a threat before it identified the commenters. That answered my question on the point.
Mr. Velamoor was suspicious and defensive. At one point he told me that he “believed” that there was a gag order prohibiting this subpoena from being released by its recipients, and that whoever gave it to me must have violated that order, and that he would be “looking into it” and how I got it.
Such gag orders do exist. However, I note that two days earlier on June 2, 2015, Mr. Velamoor signed the cover letter on the subpoena, which contained the Department of Justice’s standard language about secrecy:
The Government hereby requests that you voluntarily refrain from disclosing the existence of the subpoena to any third party. While you are under no obligation to comply with our request, we are requesting you not to make any disclosure in order to preserve the confidentiality of the investigation and because disclosure of the existence of this investigation might interfere with and impede the investigation.
In other words, two days before he told me that he believed there was a gag order on the subpoena, Mr. Velamoor told Reason.com that it was notrequired to keep the subpoena secret.
Perhaps Mr. Velamoor misspoke. Perhaps Mr. Velamoor misremembered. Perhaps Mr. Velamoor didn’t secure the gag order until after he issued the subpoena.
Or perhaps Mr. Velamoor, bless his heart, was lying in an attempt to intimidate me.
This falls into the very important category of know your rights.
In any case, Mr. Velamoor has provided me with no such order, despite a request.
Whatever the answer, consider this: Mr. Velamoor, and government attorneys like him, will be the ones deciding whether the federal government will use the grand jury to pierce the anonymity of your comments. No doubt in some cases they will exercise that power on genuinely frightening threats. But other times will be like this one, where the government subpoenaed the identity of people indulging in crass but obvious bluster.
They will target political speech.
Does that make you feel safer?
Why Does This Matter To You?
If, like most of us, you’re a lawyer with lawyer-friends and “a swarm of asshole lawbloggers” (Yes, I have such a swarm, and I’m KING BEE!) willing to stand at your back to defend your right to use silly hyperbole in criticizing government officials, it probably doesn’t matter at all.
But some of you aren’t. You may have opinions, even strong opinions, but you’re lower forms of life, maggots, pukes, nothing but grabasstic pieces of amphibian shit. You aren’t lawyers, ready and prepared to defend yourself from the Very Special Hell that is a federal investigation of statements like:
Dumb creatures that you are, you might even write something in the heat of the moment, while commenting on a charged political issue on Facebook, or Twitter, or Reason, without phrasing it properly:
See how far that gets YOU, dumb brute, when you’re summoned by a wet-behind-the-ears mutton-headed Assistant United States Attorney to answer to the Grand Jury for the Southern District of New York after your Facebook comment to the effect that Eli Manning should defenestrated through a plate glass window because the Giants are a piece of shit team that will never win another Super Bowl as long as that piece of shit Eli Manning, who should be defenestrated through a plate glass window, is quarterback.
Or how much it will cost you to hire a lawyer to defend yourself against an obviously meritless investigation, for speaking your mind in a manner that no one, except a wet-behind-the-ears mutton-headed Assistant United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, who should be defenestrated through a plate glass window for wasting taxpayer dollars on a frivolous investigation of mere internet braggadocio and hyperbole, would read as anything other than mere internet braggadocio and hyperbole about the wrong people. People like Eli Manning, or a federal judge who issued an incredibly harsh sentence in a very political case?
Of course, Reason and “Rhywun” may be under a gag order asserted on the “because I said so” non-existent authority of a wet-behind-the-ears mutton-headed Assistant United States Attorney, for whom a special place should be reserved in Hell, so don’t expect answers.
But ask whether that’s an internet, or for that matter a country, in which you wish to live.
First they came for the comment section, and I said nothing…
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I had let my subscription to Reason lapse years ago....just because I procrastinate.
I'm renewing today.
"to pierce the anonymity of internet assholes"
Hey, stop picking on my avatar!
Perhaps they could also try to pierce the veil to rescue those who post suicide notes online, especially veterans.
Perhaps, instead of clamping down on speech that they don't like, they should sit back for some self reflection on why people might want to toss them into the wood chipper. Dumb fucks.
I'm thinking about making a facebook page called:
SPECIAL PLACES IN HELL FOR FEDERAL JUDGES
Then each day, I'll describe a place in hell... like quotes from Dante's inferno etc.
Anyone want to opine on the advisability/entertainment value of such a venture??
(7TH CIRCLE - for the violent)
People I saw within up to the eyebrows,
And the great Centaur said: Tyrants are these,
Who dealt in bloodshed and in pillaging.
Here they lament their pitiless mischiefs; here
Is Alexander, and fierce Dionysius
Who upon Sicily brought dolorous years....
Justice divine, upon this side, is goading
That Attila, who was a scourge on earth,
And Pyrrhus, and Sextus; and for ever milks
The tears which with the boiling it unseals
In Rinier da Corneto and Rinier Pazzo,
Who made upon the highways so much war.
They will pretend that they have to go through the proper channels to obtain the IP addresses of the posters.
Which we clearly know can be had in the blink of an eye from our friends at the NSA.
This the dance they have to do. Have the answer, build the question.
pods
Which is why if a couple of FBI agents show up at your doorstep just wanting to "talk," record the encounter, tell them that they are tresspassing and to get off the property.
The problem here is that people vastly underestimate how evil the US government has become. Otherwise, they'd realize the time for idle threats is over.
The government doesn't get it, and it is perpetuating a cycle. It thinks that it needs to maintain control, so it clamps down, which pisses people off, which causes the government to clamp down harder, which pisses people off more, etc... Throw the cronyism into the mix and how badly the middle class has been shafted while the oligarchs have gotten theirs, and it is clear that pressure is going to keep building until it can no longer be contained. The government today is as bad or worse than the redcoats were in the 1770s, and they refuse to understand that they themselves are the problem.
The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.
-Leia Organa
I can see this happening at big sporting events during the national anthem. Big screen zooms in on the unpatriotic...............
pods
That one looks Jewish,
And that one's a Coon
Who let this riffraff into the room?
There's one smoking a joint
And another in spots!
If I had my way...
I'd HAVE ALL OF YOU SHOT.
Pink Floyd, The Wall
One of the greatest records of all time. Thanks Mr. Waters for living through the hell you call art.
VPN, motherfuckers, vpn. Just remember it's like a condom -- not perfect but definitely useful.
The vpn provider can see your IP and the stuff you do.
TOR is far better. And most importantly, always use an open internet connection, using TAILS if you must really speak the "truth" and don't want to end up in the hands of TPTB.
Ya I saw this yesterday, I was wondering when ZH would pick this up. I've often thought it might be a good idea to start a new email address on tor and get a new user account that I only access with tor, but I kinda like my screen name, and I've had it a couple years now. (Well, I got put in time out a while ago, so I've only had this one a few months...)
It's interesting that they would embarrass themselves with this kind of thing. Obviously saying they want to put a judge through a wood chipper was pure hyperbole(but hilarious. I feel like that guy would be right at home here) and yet they are going after him anyway. They must sense that the plebs are getting a little fed up. There is only so much bullshit people will put up with before they decide they've had enough. They must be getting a little scared. As well they should be. While I am by no means threatening anyone(hear that, DOJ...) eventually enough people are going to decide they don't want to live under the thumbs of fascists like that judge anymore and it's not going to be pretty.
Pretty soon we might be called to answer for our up/down votes. . . .
I'm sure all our comments and votes are stored somewhere to be held against us someday. Fuck 'em!
You didn't vote for Barack Obama?
That's vicious hate speech, you racist.
A big conflagration is coming, one way or the other. It could be Civil War II or it could be WWIII. Either way, know who you are, know what you stand for, and be on your own side. Many of the worst atrocities happen because people pick a side and do what they are told. Either outcome is not something that we want to experience, but I don't see a way around violent conflict. Also, expect supply chains to break.
I refuse to login to facefuck.
http://www.policestateusa.com/2013/fbi-interrogated-man-after-comment-ab...
FREEDUMB !
Get your loved ones off FB;
http://saintsal.com/facebook/
Directions for deleting your account;
http://lifehacker.com/5813506/how-to-delete-your-facebook-account
Man complains about police state, police state comes knocking on his door.
"You didn't have to prove my point so quickly."
pods
Good one, just one problem, the police state doesn't 'knock' on your door, they smash it in.
Oh, the FBI will do that too. They threatened to do it if he didn't agree to an interview with them, which is a fucking minefield in and of itself. If you ever find yourself in the situation where you have to choose between an FBI interview and an FBI raid, and you cannot get an injunction, learn the FBI's policies regarding interviews (form 302, no recording,) and use their own dishonest rules against them.
Vaquero - just for your info, the FBI has recently been given authority to record interviews... Your best bet it to keep your mouth shut and request an attorney before you make any statements!!!! Come join us for free at www.gunsgrubandgold.com Everyone is welcome!!!! Survival links, financials, much much more!!! Looking for moderators, writers, etc. if interested contact www.gunsgrubandgold.com administrator or webmaster!!!
They know damn well why someone would want to toss them in a wood chipper- they dont care in the slightest.
What they do care about is deflecting peoples attention away from themselves and onto these filthy internet trolls who dare to question thier decisions in office before they infect the rest of the population with any more of this dangerous "thinking"
Metaphorically speaking, I hope there is a special place in hell reserved for that horrible public official on whom I am entitled to comment, purely as hyperbole, on a matter of public concern under my First Amendment rights to free speech and to petition the Government for redress of grievances. Cf: The Screwtape Letters, an allegorical series of essays in which C. S. Lewis used Hell as a literary device for comment upon matters of spiritual and political concern.
They definately wont do that. Veterans who commit suicide are a windfall to the government. No more expensive health care to pay out, no more help with housing and day to day living expenses, no more grants to school. that can all amount to $100,000+ per year per veteran in cash outlays vs a nice burial ceremony in a national cemetary that only costs a few hundred bucks.
there is a reason you dont hear daily reports of veteran suicides on the news and in the papers, but government talking heads always will mention the problem and how somebody should do something about it. They just want to give the appearance that they actually care so the whole thing can be continually swept under the rug along with the ashes of the dead who gave up everything to be used as pawns by the government.
Shit, it looks like everyone is afraid to make a comment on this article.
FUck you, Holder!
It isn't holder anymore...it's that new token person...
Fuck'em all.
Better watch out - under these new interpretations, comments like that might be viewed as attempted rape. . .
is it black or white, man, women or Jenner?
I signed in to wish Mr. Bernanke a good day, right after complement Obama on having such a beautiful wife. Good luck to Hillary with her campaign. If I could elect her and Jeb Bush together, I would. God praise McCain - the last true American Patriot for keeping our land safe from terrorists and traitors such as Edward Snowden. Good fortune to Paul Krugman - our economic visionary, and speedy recovery to John Kerry, who totally does not look like a horse. No glue factory for you, my friend! No sir!
What a wonderful country! Tra-la-la-la.
Excuse me while I go pledge my daily allegiance to the flag.
Bless you model Patriot. May our dear overlords (errr... leaders) reward us for our unwaivering loyalty.
Plus 1 to you sir. I would also like to add that I, for one, support everything our government and banker overlords are doing. It's for our own good, I'm sure.
Doubleplusgood. Yes. doubleplusgood.
I see nothing in the preceding comments that would require censorship.
This does not distress me in any way, and in fact gives me hope in humanity again.
All is right in the world.
It's like you read my mind.
Unlawful force is unlawful. Force is not victory, its defeat.
Selective prosecution is someting every fascist government requires to be sucessful.
How did I know Krieger would be the one author this story.
So goes the way of empires...
A developer of a truly free market mechanism goes to prison for life while John Corzine is free...
same as it ever was...
Think zerohedge will receive a subpoena if we make note that Corzine deserves the guillotine, or do we have to bump it up a notch and argue that he deserves a wood chipper? Perhaps just stating that there is a special place in hell for him?
Oh good...Glad to know the government is protecting us all from the psychopaths.
-:)
look the fuck out...
Department of inJustice
What a waste of time......like there is nothing more important to do........like fix the Stock market......the fix is in!............lol
Don't worry they'll lose interest once their paychecks start bouncing. Then even the lawyers will understand what's going on.
a woodchipper ban is already in the works
Its in the pressure cooker bill.
Because there has been some backlash to an outright ban on wood-chippers, sponsors of the bill have modified it to reflect a ten-day cooling-off period before purchase and a federal background check for internet posting history. Owners of wood-chippes will be requred to fill out a form before each use describing the material to be chipped, where it was obtained from, and approximately how much chips will be produced. Use-permits must be posted on a 24x36 notification at the site 24-hours before use.
All wood-chipper owners and operators must be licensed by state and local authorities and have signed statements on file ready for inspection promising not to wood-chip treasonous, dual-citizen congressmen, judges and other assorted federal oligarch masters.
They plan on slipping this legislation into amendments to the Patriot Act funding large, industrial furnaces in FEMA camps intended for hazardous waste disposal.
Paveway, you knew this was coming, didn't you?
Quote from your most poetic rant 4 days ago:
Thanks a lot for that one - I shared it worldwide with almost everyone I know.
Paveway, wood-chippers seem to be your preferred means of bringing justice to the sludge of mankind.
Ah shit, I need to quote the really nice part here:
BTW, fuck you John McCain, you rotten piece of shit.
Is this a judge being put through a wood chipper? I certainly hope so!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qWFhDvURLg
Hard to say who is in the wood-chipper there.
But I think I know someone would love to be the operator.
And I definitely know a lot of creatures who should be put in there and being processed by Mr P. himself.
Universal background checks before anyone can buy a wood chipper (or a guillotine). Its for the children...
You've got to be kidding
Well folks, this is the beginning of the end.
It won't be long before Zero Hedge and we are targeted if they don't already have us in their cross hairs. Fortunately I do not live there and they're going to have a hell of a time extraditing me and if that were to ever happen, the gloves come off.
However, looking at Yahoo.com comments I don't think we will be #1 priority on their lists.
They renditioned my cousin from his no extradition Carribean island, so
don't be so sure.That was only about fiat that they could have printed up in a New
York minute, for critising our High Lords, who knows, or will ever.
The point is, you will be prosecuted, but only if it is profitable or politically useful for the .gov...
Did they just send somebody out to black bag him and do it without the host country's permission?
Exactly.Five years ago.
He doesn't have to worry about what to do when he comes out though, so there is that.
If he complains about the rendition they will just add another 100 years(50%) on his sentence.
What was he charged with and what was the sentence? And is that bit about if he complains about the rendition he gets more time true or just hyperbole? I feel like of that's in writing the right lawyer could have a field day with that one.
Sure, the right lawyer could. At $300/hr when people in jail often have all of their financial assets either seized or frozen.
Comment removed by NSA
pending review by DHS
for possible prosecution by DOJ
That's way too inefficient. SEND IN THE DRONE!
double post, my bad
not wise to use too many 3 letter acronyms
in one post,
computer starts acting funnie ..
FCS: funny computer syndrome. We've all been there.
Love reason.com
Its both why I like a lot of libertarian ideas and dislike a lot of libertarians [the 20-something "objectivists" in the comments section who read Ayn Rand and decided they have it all figured out. They are fucking awful]
Just a matter of time before criticizing Her Hillariness is illegal...
check this out:
Hillary Clinton’s Supreme Court Litmus Test: Overturn the Case That Legalized Anti-Hillary Documentaries
The Gov. should be happy people are venting on the interwebs instead of out in the streets in civil disobedience. The internet has killed street protesting.
What's this "typical internet bluster and hyperbole" ? We don't have this at Zerohedge...
Aren't ZHs servers offshore?
I'll pay $10 for the one who kills Obama, $20 for the pope killer and $1000 for my stepmother. Seriously.
will trade silver
to some one willing to kill seals for me
2 or 3 a day ..
Waitaminute...
Is there or not a LoisLernerHDHitleryServerprotocolhere?
Am I allowed to still ask where Emily is? How about that hot Russuian babe, you know, the Russian Barbie?
http://allthemanswers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Real-Life-Russian-B...
Hey - those domes are NSA spy satellite uplink stations in the background.
The Russian Barbie is a God damn NSA plant! Is nothing sacred anymore??
Since the law appears to apply to INTERSTATE comments which can lead to prosecution I suppose not living in the country there is no such rule for INTERCOUNTRY violations.
Of course knowing the power of the prosecuters I suppose somehow I would violate some law if I openly stated (while posting from another country):
I hope someone cuts the balls off these prosecuters who violate first amendment rights. Fuck them all and let them rotate slowly downward through the ass on a sharp machete.
Have said all along it's the blog commentators who are the problem and not .Gov, the Banks and Corps.
So when will Vichy Dc be advertising for retired ISIS head cutters?
Same as it ever was. It was rash comments on MissouriCompromise.com that started the Civil War.
I have never threatened to kill anyone or wished someone to be killed by another, however if Ben Bernanke had an unfortunate hanging accident I would be pleased
Auto erotic asphyxiation.
Ah yes, the venerable 'David carridine' death. Haven't heard about one of those in a while.
I bet spooks that recieve their wages from money stolen from the plebes, are the ones resposible for the mean comments. A falseflag of sorts, if you will.
People should be aware that laws apply to comment sections. Laws like libel, direct threats, etc. Sure, it's difficult for prosecutors to get the information, but they can and do subpoena, and it is within the law. I'm not saying it's right, but it's the way it is. It's the way it's always been too.
Of course and remember under the "law" all animals are created "equal" it just that some animals are "more equal" than others...
yes, it's always been this way... ...although it never stopped the french revolution etc.
Of course they are 'more equal' than the rest of us. Make a comment that was obviously in jest about how 'someone' should put that judge through a woodchipper and they will bring the entire power of the government down on you, and won't care how many millions of dollars they waste on it either. However, I could tell you flat out that I am literally going to come to LOPs house and murder you and your entire family and then burn your house to the ground (disclaimer- no, I'm not threatening to do this) and nothing would happen because you are 'less equal' than she is. And talk about being thin skinned, too. If you are going to serve in a position like she does where you enforce draconian laws, and basically announce that you are making an example out of someone because it is politically expedient, you'd better be able to handle people denigrating you on the Internet.
Pretty soon you won't be able to talk about the illegal alien, bathhouse queen Barry and his husband, Moochelle.
Can we talk about the Brigadier General who brought his husband to a Pentagon event yesterday? God save us, if there was a God.
Surely you jest.
Nope. Can you imagine these people going up against Putin's troops? We have a "transgender" in charge of the Pentagon's Office of Environmental Affairs or something like that. It's MTV hell.
Is it safe to vote on comments any more>
Best to be quiet.
I suppose when you're training and operating in the ME with every slime piece of scum sponsored by Saudi those practices return home eventually.
Saudi Public style executions at all the baseball parks pre-game not far off; but us or them i don't know.
I said 'Break a leg' when our honorable secretary of state Kerry left. Am I in trouble now?
Fuck the subpoenas' you spineless bunch of fucking cunt retards.
I have no fucking doubt in my mind, you bunch of child molesting protecting pieces of fucking dog shit know exactly who the likes of Inthemix96 are, and exactly where they live. You filthy fucking arseholes will be held to account in due course, by the court of the collective peoples when this shit show breaks down. Bear in mind at the 'Nuremberg Trials', dereliction of duty and following orders were no excuse for the actions of despicable in-human bits of shit like what you are persecuting ordinary folk who have no other outlet than typing shit on a website like this eh?
You will be given a fair trial, in front of 12 people who are not just your peers, but far superior to you in every way, including the ability to see sense you stupid fucking cunts. And you will then be hanged like the dogs you are.
And tell Tony Fucking B.Liar he is getting skinned alive, and I mean, Skinned, Fucking, Alive.
Subpoena that you cunts.
:-)
Sounds like you've had a little bit too much to think, citizen ...
Carl,
They are more than aware who I am.
Come and fucking get some is what I say.
I am here, all mother fucking day.
;-)
I'm in this camp as well. Sure, they can take away your assets and grind you down, but in so doing, they remove any reasons you have for not going full Wolverine. They aren't being too careful about concealing their tyrant's hand this time. We must be getting close. Time to buy more food and ammo!
ITM96, let me just tell you that I've really admired your comments over the years and whole heartedly agree with all of them. I stand with you brother, even if an ocean away.
I second that.
Niketh Velamoor and his ilk easily take up the role of bureaucrats turned into a breed of pliable civil servant. They are well aware of who their master's are and have no love or interest in civil rights, let alone Constitutional privileges. Gandhi was the one who pointed out that 'Bureaucracy is a giant mechanism operated by pygmies...' Churchill called them wogs in less pc daze... George Carlin on 'Rights' http://bit.ly/1F9s058
Seriously, didn't the courts just rule on something similar regarding FB posts... that someone acting out online does not constitute adequate grounds for prosecution?
Crickets
Its like a HYRDA Whats the Point of Throwing them in the WoodChipper or Meat Grinder at the local grocery store only to be replaced with another shortly there after ?
Show the video of the first guy going through the woodchipper to his would be replacements and they tend to think twice about taking the job.
In some sort of theoretical bizarro world, of course.
Chilling effect, like goldstein said.
Often one wonders if the public faces of power are the true holders of power or patsies, be them Obama, Soros, The Jews, the lizard queen of England, the pope or the thirteen blood lines. But if they were to be killed (the public faces of power) no one would be willing to take their place and the chain of command would be broken.
In essence the algorithm works by killing anyone who appears to be in a position of power. If these go, the others too.
WOW I have said worse than that here in ZH. I guess the roundups are beginning. Keep that shotgun loaded and close. Shit did I really just type that out loud?
Shotgun? I keep nothing less than a 308 battle rifle with me at all times. Been at DEFCON-2 since the Fedcoats rolled into that Republic of Texas meeting over in Bryan Texas a few months ago.
FIFA, movie theaters, underwear clad basement vigilantes, that DOJ affirmative action receipient is Pinkerton material.
Filthy district attorneys make good filthy politicans.
Prosecutors learn the art of burying evidence, cutting deals, and fooling the public.
The DA's office is the minor league of politics.
Hmm my name is probably on there too.
Gov-Co has already decided that sarcasm is a crime - punishable by immediate execution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaklKsILrsA
They could indict a ham sandwich.
Just a way to threaten public discourse by intimidation.
Make your internet threats from the public library........
Recommendations for ZH and the peanut gallery:
1. Browse and comment ZH with free TOR Browser in maximum security mode, never accessing the site without it.
2. ZH should automatically and completely purge all comments after 15 days.
3. ZH should only backup content and not comments, or hold site backups for no longer than 15 days.
4. ZH should not log information on visitors or accounts or comments.
5. ZH should get SSL certificates and use them
7. Peanut gallery should never comment or use personally identifiable information when commenting.
8. Donate to ZH with Bitcoin.
This way, they are left with only dead-ends.
It's the chilling effect on free speech that excites these monsters.
1. I wouldnt trust it. http://pando.com/2014/12/26/if-you-still-trust-tor-to-keep-you-safe-your...
2. Thats useless, authorities may store them in regullar "snapshots" on their own.
3. Also useless for the reason above.
4. Thats not visible anyway unless server is hacked or they are obligated to hand of data. Also they need logs for unwanted(hack, scam, banned) people/IP`s management.
5. Definitelly and it is a shame such important site dont have it.
Always use Tor with a VPN making sure the VPN servers are not located in US.
Maybe this works, but I had a colleague tell me about his son's work @ the NSA. He indicated that team cracks the toughest incryption in seconds to minutes.
"The gollywogs are not mating this spring." Decode that!
Not one thing there is going to keep you 100% anonymous. However, all of those will help, so if the DOJ comes knocking, there is little or nothing to hand over.
1. Not trust TOR? Compared to what? Browsing/commenting in clear text and/or with your own IP address? The fact that it is theoretically possible to compromise TOR is not the point. I am sure the NSA has been working on this problem a long time. The exit points to the open internet should never be trusted, but I wouldn't necessarily trust a VPN exit point either. If doing banking, I would never use TOR or VPN (unless you were in a truly insecure network), but if you were simply using it to comment or browse anonymously, as to not attract black helicopters, then it is great.
2. & 3. Sure, but why make it easy for them? Again, something was on the internet publically, then it can and probably will be archived somewhere. But the less data you retain, the less you can hand over.
4. Perhaps you missed the point. Yes, it is meant to ensure ZH would have no data to provide to the DOJ or whoever if they asked for it. SPAM? Yes, ban the account. Don't need an IP for that. Besides, spammers often come through proxies anyway, so that is almost useless.
5. At least you agreed on something.
Security through obscurity isnt any protection from whats probably the most capable hacking institution. So for example if you ask on point 2 & 3 why to make it easy for them, the thing is that your mentioned protection doesnt make it more complicated for them either. Its as simple as sniffing unencrypted traffic, or directly setup automated snapshoting of comments(if nothing else then literarly in form of images or text streaming). So wheter ZH flush its data every few days or not is totally meaningless. Not to mention removing comments after short time make whole discussion pointless and can discard sometimes great information.
4. I think you missed the point. Its important to maintain logs for any server out there. You need them to see hacking attempts and ip management and yes you DO need IP`s as well. In fact often IP ranges are the only safe solution and if spammers come through proxies these often represent other servers with static IP address so blocking them on that level is still the best option. To give you example, once I had such a spam nothing worked against it. It was self generating its own mail accounts on several IPs. Finally I literarly had to locate IP`s country, found that all of them came from specific ISP and blocked whole IP range officially assigned to it. I had never problem again.
As for TOR, I personally doubt its secure and may in fact be even more dangerous than normal traffic(and much more under watch as well) but thats my opinion. I dont trust people behind it and I dont trust their skills either. I say simple, well configured SSL should be enough that ZH need, because currently to login unencrypted form begs for abuse.
2. And 3. The only thing meaningless is this argument we're having. In any case, the data couldn't be in clear text to sniff if TLS was being used. Additionally, presuming the authorities already have a dragnet surveillance on your site, servers, network, etc, changes things anyway. DOJ is not the NSA, either. They may communicate, but all agencies are not created equal when it comes to their capabilities in technology.
4. I still think you're not getting what I was saying. I agree traffic and activity logs are useful in some cases, but that is weighed against the loss of privacy and anonymity for the website visitors. If ZH thought it was more important to protect their own users than have that information for convenience, then they could to that. Some places might keep this type of information, but rotate them out every day or so. Chances are, if the DOJ asked for something, you wouldn't ncessarily have time to process their request or even read it before the logs were removed.
The point is that like reason.com, ZH is probably putting content on here that the government doesn't appreciate, and has users that the government would like to harass. Some things I mentioned, and there are many others, may offer little benefit by themselves, but security is a comprehensive strategy and not a single thing like just encrypting traffic. It should be a lot of very extensive list if things that help obscure (yes, that is part of comprehensive security when anonymity is am goal) and secure communications and activities.
Fuck that. Say whatever you want to say and be ready with lead-delivery mechanisms and plenty of lead if the facists come knocking on your door to drag you away for exercising your right to free speech. Hiding in fear is exactly what they want you to do. Live free right in front of their faces. In fact...live free or die.
If they try to take your assets via legal defense fees, think of it as removing your remaining issues with going full Wolverine.
In principle I agree with you. There are benefits to simply avoiding the situation altogether, which is what I am advocating.
I've been qualified says my 3 Expert Marksman Ribbons and Master Gunner as well so I'm ready when not if the time comes-I suggest all do the same. Well I'm all tired out now with all this warring stuff=G'NITE!
My name is Thomas O'Brien
I live at
12223B Woodside Avenue
Lakeside, CA USA
I SHALL NOT FEAR THEM...AT ALL.
They will NOT WIN in attempting to quash MY SOVEREIGN RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH.
They are VIOLATING THEIR OATH to defend the Constitution of the United States.
They are felons...PERJURERS.
Has ZH disclosed commentary subpoena requests or is that verboten?
Or waiting for a more lucrative moment?
Or does not disclosing give you extortion power over the DOJ?
Btw, and for fuck sake enable damn SSL on ZH already!
Just let the record show, I am a lover, not a fighter.............
That won't get you very far when the shit hits the fan-its bound to get to a boiling point in the near future. We are losing our Civil Liberties with every new law that DC Dreams up while they're asleep at their mahogany desk or UNDER it with a fellow page.
Ambitious DOJ middle-managers recognize blowhard posters have no money, weapons, or political connnections, and therefore make easy targets. And, blowhards sound rude, so, ambitious DOJ middle-managers can LOOK LIKE heros when they "take down" blowhards. Heros get promotions. And it's SO BORING at DOJ, so just please let DOJ middle-managers look like heros, get some promotions, and beef up their Retirement Accounts, so they can get the h*ll out before the DOJ Boredom completely slow-cooks their brains. THANK YOU, taxpayers.
Like in 1932, when Prohibition (and Moonshining) ended, and War on Cannabis started. Moonshiners shot at Feds, but cannabis users weren't violent. So, Feds still got the promotions, but no longer got shot at. That's why Feds fight tooth-and-nail against ending the "War On Drugs".
Coming soon to a ZeroHedge near you.
Consider: Your average pre-WWII German Jew was unarmed and not likely to commit a violent act against anyone. Yet Hitler et al villified them, and soon enough they were mostly eliminated - not by him he never packed a pistol - but by well uniformed "arms" of the state. They did so with the knowing avoidance of the general population - who happily occupied their hiomes and businesses. And human nature has not changed one iota since the 1920-40s. And the tactics of the governing "masters" have not changed, nor the rationals offered to explain why the "forbidden" behavior (having an opposing viwpoint - even if through vulgarity or hyperbole - and articulating it openly) must be investigated.
Now guess how bad it will get here in the USA AFTER there are a few beheadings publicized on YT or MSM.
Americans will happily give up their Consttitutional rights - just like all the others who have oreceeded them in cowardice facing the "instruments" of the state - who are of course your neighbors.
Not every American.
Hitler was a soldier, of course he packed a pistol.
Edit: Corporal?
"This is interesting, because just last week I highlighted 20 comments on a Wall Street Journal article, some of which were far more violent and aggressive. See: “Revolution is Coming” – The Top 20 Responses to Jon Hilsenrath’s Idiotic WSJ Article. Did the WSJ also receive subpoenas?"
A ZH commenter wrote that the next day the WSJ had 'sanitised' the more violent and aggressive comments by disappearing them. The commenters will themselves be targeted one day soon.
Beware the Mobys.
The BOLSHEVIKS, their progeny, are running the USSA.
I always laugh when people call Obama, Hitler. MIRROR IMAGE anyone?
I wonder how long information such as this will be legal in the USSA? Justice (SIC) Kagan (OY) says that "hate speech" is NOT protected by the 1st Amendment, Sonia Sotomayor and the other Jewish judges also agree. You see "hate speech" = TRUTH.
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/thottc/
It Begins! Montana Man Being Prosecuted for 'Hate Speech' and Holocaust Denial
Bad news for any American hoping to move to Canada to avoid the United States police state. Canada has officially become a police state on its own with the passage of Bill C-51. No place to run, no place to hide from totalitarianism! We are so fucked!
https://ccla.org/on-to-the-courts-bill-c-51-passed-by-senate/
" No place to run, no place to hide from totalitarianism! We are so fucked!"
If 330 million of us decided not to "run," and not to "hide," tyranny would go poof.
I for one am not going to "run" or "hide."
I'll see many of you on the battlefield, or if you hear "YYZ" being tapped out on a neighboring basement cell wall, that will be me.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission..
Remember me when you hear the whistle of a 308 round!
You may have to correct the 330m population as the battle wars on many will no doubt be killed during the coming Revolution for Liberty. Don't think that a deterrent though-I'm there!
C-51 is entirely unconstitutional and will be defeated soundly by the weakest CANADIAN Constitutional Lawyers that are sitting around on their duffs presently. As soon as anyone provides the slightest Supreme Court challenge it will be scraped out in one day. Harper is a very weak politician now and CANADIANS en masse are pleasantly awaiting his departure on the next electoral cycle. Anti-totalitarian Americans will always find safe haven in CANADA no matter what ad hoc laws Harper decides to legislate to keep satisfying his political master in Goldman Sachs. Harper is on the fast track out of CANADIAN politics as sure as the sun shines and neocons wind up in Hell.
"C-51 is entirely unconstitutional and will be defeated soundly by the weakest CANADIAN Constitutional Lawyers that are sitting around on their duffs presently."
You better check and see how many of those folks are Amongst.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission..