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Did Greece's Time Just Run Out?
Early last month, negotiations between Greece and creditors took a decisive turn the worst when the IMF broke from the rest of the troika on the feasibility of a third Greek bailout program.
The split came when Poul Thomsen, head of the IMF’s European department told EU creditors that Greece is so far off track economically, the Fund was not only against a new bailout for Athens, but in fact was considering whether or not to withhold its portion of remaining funds under the existing program.
Thomsen said the fact that Greece was on track to run a deficit when it should be well on its way to running a budget surplus suggests to the IMF that EU creditors should be prepared to write down their Greek debt so as to make the country’s debt-to-GDP ratio more ‘sustainable.’ Unsurprisingly, Europe wasn't particularly enthusiastic about the idea.
Thomsen’s remarks — which were delivered to EU finance ministers at an April meeting in Riga — were followed up by reports that the IMF had informed the ECB and the European Commission that the Fund would not be participating in a third Greek bailout program.
Earlier today, those reports were confirmed as the IMF has withdrawn its team and sent its lead negotiators back to Washington. Meanwhile, a meeting between Tsipras and European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker was billed by one EU official as a "last attempt" to convey the urgency of the situation to the Greek PM. European Council President Donald Tusk (who met with Tsipras on Wednesday) has also voiced frustration at Athens' apparent belligerence in the face of economic oblivion. FT has more:
In a series of meeting in Brussels, Mr Tsipras was told his government must quickly decide whether to accede to a raft of economic reforms or face bankruptcy.
“We need decisions not negotiations now. It’s my opinion that the Greek government has to be, I think, a little more realistic,” said Donald Tusk, the European Council president, who met Mr Tsipras privately on Wednesday.
The IMF was equally direct, announcing its lead negotiators had returned to Washington and citing “major differences” and a lack of progress in negotiations. “There are major differences between us in most key areas,” said Gerry Rice, the IMF spokesman. “There has been no progress in narrowing these differences recently.”
Officials believe that if no deal is struck by early next week, there will not be enough time for Greece and other eurozone parliaments to pass the needed legislation for Athens to access rescue funds before two big bills fall due: a €1.5bn loan repayment to the IMF on June 30, and a €3.5bn bond redemption on July 20.
Jean-Claude Juncker, the European Commission chief, met Mr Tsipras on Thursday in what one EU official characterised as a last-ditch effort to get the Greek leader to accept a deal. “If the process was working properly, the president would not have had to have a meeting with Tsipras today,” the official said.
Meanwhile, in Germany, lawmakers (who are increasingly defecting to the Schaueble camp as it relates to Greece) have apparently ruled out a third program for Athens. Here's Reuters:
The German government is against a third aid programme for Greece under any circumstances, even if there was an agreement between Athens and its international lenders on a cash-for-reforms deal, the German mass daily Bild reported on Thursday.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel is facing growing opposition among her ruling conservatives to granting Greece any further bailout funds.
Athens' unwillingness to accept further economic reforms is turning a growing minority of Merkel's own conservatives against the prospect of unlocking a final tranche of Greece's second bailout or agreeing to a third aid programme.
It now appears the only hope for Tsipras is to convince the ECB and the European Commission to tap existing EU bailout facilities. Here's Reuters again:
The current second aid programme could be extended and be broadened with funds from other programmes such as the 10.9 billion euros ($12.32 billion) that were originally designed to rescue Greek banks.
However, this could only happen if Athens was willing to implement substantial reforms, it added.
If Greece were to accept the plan, lenders would aim to unlock 10.9 billion euros in unused bank bailout funds that were returned to the European Financial Stability Fund. This would enable Greece to cover its financial needs through July and August, the sources have said.
What happens after that is anyone’s guess because as we’ve shown, whether Greece kicks the can two months or two years it really doesn’t matter because if Athens opts to remain in the EMU, Greece is doomed to debt servitude for at least the next four decades.
Unsurprisingly (because this is Europe after all) German lawmakers now seem to be against an extension of Greece’s current program, which directly contradicts the 'solution' discussed above:
- MERKEL CAUCUS MAY REFUSE GREEK BAILOUT EXTENSION: KRICHBAUM
- KRICHBAUM DOESN'T SEE MAJORITY IN MERKEL CAUCUS: TAGESSPIEGEL
Through it all, Tsipras likely believes he can buy a bit more time in order to cement an agreement with Syriza party hardliners. Accepting a 'deal' without first ensuring it can pass the Greek parliament could be a political disaster and may be followed, in relatively short order, by social upheaval.
Whatever the case, creditors are prepared to pull the plug. Here's Donald Tusk to sum up the mood in Brussels:
“There’s no more space for gambling, there’s no more time for gambling. The day is coming, I’m afraid, where someone says the game is over."
* * *
Here's Tsipras earlier today at the EU CELAC Summit. He does not appear to be having a good time.
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We can't pay you 300 million today but through osmosis money will funnel into our accounts in 2 weeks and we will have all the 600 million in 2 weeks...double finger cross promise
now lets get ES up to 2200...mommy needs a pair of new shoes and an aston martin
Warning to all economies who's citizens want the government to provide for their every need.....read Greece.
Warning to politicians sometimes its you who must sleep in the bed you make. Germans will be pissed but Greece will never be alowed to leave.
Thats what this is all about German politicans like merkel will just have to take the hits of doing the "right thing" for the greater EU. Sorry you know this was the game and the devil gets his do.
Its not about Greece its about Germany. Its Germany's time that is running out.
Tsipras and Varufakis are either incredibly smart or incredibly stupid. Or both? ;-)
Looney
Tsipras has actually a good time. His citizens and enterpreneurs have withdrawn all the cash from banks and hidden in their freezers or abroad. The banks balance sheets have been repared by ECB emergency fund and when the day of reckonings arrive, European Institutions, banks and the IMF will have their real bad time! I am waiting for the show! (down)
Throw those pathetic Greek dead beats out of Europe already.
Then what? The EU won't even get it's principal back, much less its interest. Plus, there is no mechanism for throwing out an EU member. I keep hearing how Greece's time is just about up. I'm sorry, seems to me the EU's will have much larger problem if Greece just walks away, and says 'Meh".
1. If all the memers of the EU besides Greek decide that Greece is out, they are out.
2. If Greece is out, they still owe all their debt denominated in Euro. And the Greeks have enough assets to sell to pay back their debt.
3. Without the EU the Greeks will be nothing else than a third world country.
1. It's not unanimous, obviously, without the Greek vote. So, yes, if Greece votes to leave it's unanimous.
2. They don't owe shit if they default on their debt
3. We will see ...
1. Greece will have no vote on that.
2. Almost all of their debt is in Euro, which is a foreign currency for them and was put under "English law", not Greek, so they are simply not able to default on that.
3. Greece is a pathetic third world country already, so no one "will have to see".
Im sure many will love to visit Greece when the new Drachma fetches 2 to the Euro. There's nothing the EU can do if Greece tells their creditors to pound sand. Their debt was based on fabricated creditworthiness by Golman Sachs, and can be argued null and void ...
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/greek-debt-crisis-how-goldman...
Or better yet, read up on the old Zerohedge article on 'Odious Debt" ... http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-08/odious-debt-has-finally-arrived...
Make that 2000 Drachmas to the Euro and i agree. Greece will be like a cheap bordello in the med, much like Thailand.
And that "odious debt" argument is just an invention of brain dead communist who just do not want to pay back what they owe. Just like every good dead beat on this planet.
Yeah, we get your point. Maybe just STFU already?
Hey you fuckin weasel. I'd like to see you squirm when the fuckin derivitaves explode in your ass!
Pay back your debt you deadbeat nazi.
What's funny with Germans is hubris. They beg the world to knock the snot out of them and the world accepts.
2 to the Euro? Really? i would guess more like 20-25. May think of an island vacation in Greece at that point.
Fuck all of you mofo's- dont come to Greece-we dont your fuckin charity money. STICK IT WHERE THE SUN DONT SHINE!
You will get what you got last time you tried, malaka. And if this isn't odious debt I don't know what is.
That's like throwing someone who's on fire out of a burning building. Not really helpful, but fun to watch from the other side of a large body of water.
If it saves the building, it could be useful, morevoer, are you suggesting that there is no value in entertainment? I disagree.
this is the storm before the deal.... buy greek paper
Nonono... It reminds me of that cat I ran over last week...
First... I saw it about 50 meters in front of me...
it could still run to the left... or the right... and get away...
but it was thinking what to do...
SO I FLASHED MY LIGHTS, BLINDING HIM AND BAM!!!
accidents... karma... shit happens...
So I felt bad and went for a look...
it was still alive...
And then I remembered there was a vet 2 streets away...
BUT WHY SHOULD I PAY FOR SOMEBODY ELSE HIS CAT??!!!??!
What did "they" ever do FOR ME??!!?
So I did the next best thing...
I picked up the cat...
and placed it in the middle of the road. Stood back and waited...
AND THEN SOME FUCKER WITH A CAR DROVE OVER THE CAT!!!
HE DIDN’T EVEN STOP!! that bastard...
Like I did, not saying that I’m a hero but I DID STOP!!
Long story short, that man clearly killed the cat...
Now, some people will say "NO BIGGY! A CAT HAS 9 LIVES!!"
But... I think santa and the easter bunny already had a go at that fact because that cat wasn’t moving anymore.
So what I mean is this: Santa and the Easter bunny made sure Greecd won’t get up anymore...
You understand now?
You're such a meany. I sentence you to 48 hours nonstop watching of "cute" cat videos!
After that, your real punishment starts. You have to watch the Women Soccer WC and the sound cranked so you can hear the bitches scream and moan even better!
Beware of Greeks bearing paper.
unless it's toilet paper - in Venezuala
At 40 cents a EURO, yes.
Greece will never default , it is like saying we will have a cashless society how would you pay for the drug trade (800 billion) slave trade (500 billion ) and the counterfit trade (500/800 Billion) and all that control . Greece is part of the EU now shut the Frak up.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
"osmosis" ... good word choice. Greek, right? Very charitable.
Isn't it the EU whose time is running short, what with the size of the ELA withdrawals nearly about to exceed the Greek banks' balance sheets?
they'll just flip the balance sheet numbers. problem solved.... fom negative to positive with a few keystrokes
es 2200 please
Agreed. The Greeks already got raped pillaged and burnt alive by the ubiquitous "Them".
If the Greeks don't "Pay" "Them" with which they've not got (hint), it's "Them" that comes up short, so "They" (also known as Them) get to give the Greeks more money to give back to "them" and pretend that everything's all sooper dooper A-OK, great, wonderful and damn nice.
Look, a squirrel!
Doesn't matter, the creditors have reached the"fuckit' moment that comes in all bankruptcies.
i'm going to buy some more PMs before my paper promises combust.
Maybe Varoufakis is the Kwisatz Haderach?
Let me correct this for you, ISN'T IT THE WORLD WHOSE TIME IS RUNNING SHORT.....
Pretend and extend, that's all they have, because corruption and phony numbers will never add up and when one falls we all fall. That's been the plan for 100 years, mutual destruction...
So, the game continues, on and on, as the algos predict the markets by the headlines, LMAO
Greece Feigned Deal Progress, Launched Rumors To Avert Bank Run
Did Greece's Time Just Run Out?
With Greece "Everything Must Go Right From Now On" To Avoid Market Shock
Greece: Out Of Cash, Out Of Time, Out Of Options
Eurogroup Gives Greece 10 Day Ultimatum: Apply For Bailout Or Grexit
ECB Pulls The Trigger: Blocks Funding To Greece Via Debt Collateral - Full Statement
Greece Faces Moment Of Truth: Troika To Present Final Offer On Wednesday
Greece, Troika Submit Conflicting Eleventh Hour Deal Proposals
Greece Admits It Will Not Make IMF Payment On Friday, No Deal Expected Wednesday
Sunday Deal Deadline Dies As Greece Prepares Desperate "Draft" Plan
Greece Will Default On June 5 Without Deal, IMF Leaks
Greece Effectively Defaults To IMF Using SDR Reserves To "Repay" Fund; 1 Month Countdown Begins
Tomorrow Greece Decides: Europe... Or Russia
ECB Threatens Athens With Bank Funding Cutoff If No Deal In One Month: February 28 Is Now D-Day For Greece
"Completely Absurd" To Think Greece Won't Default In May: Official
"We Have Come To The End Of The Road" - Greece Prepares For Default, FT Reports
After Greece Warns It May Get Funds From Russia Or China, Europe Said To Propose 6 Month Extension
Greece Faces D-Day On April 9, Will Default Within 30 Days Of Missed Payment, BofAML Says
Germany Gives Greece One Final Ultimatum After Friday's "Optimistic" Talks Devolve Into Disagreement And Confusion
Greek Deal Falls Apart After EU Says "No Way Forward", No Eurogroup Statement; Greece "Questions Merit" Of Bailout Extension
Greece Faces Cash Crunch This Friday Without "Plan A Or Plan B": What Happens Next
Greece Warns It May Default On IMF Loan As Soon As Next Week
Greece Requests Six Month Loan Agreement Extension, Denies It Requests "Memorandum" Extension
Greece Misses 1st Commitment: Delays Reform List Delivery Until Tuesday
Greece To Run Out Of Cash In Under One Week
Stocks Go Green, Euro Spikes On Report Greece To Ask Request Program Extension Tomorrow
"The Greek Endgame Is Here": Probability Of IMF Default Now 70%, Says Deutsche Bank
Greece Gambles On "Catastrophic Armageddon" For Europe, Warns It "Only Has Weeks Of Cash Left"
Greek Deal In Limbo After "Serious Disagreement" Between EU, IMF
Dijsselbloem Crushes Greek Deal Optimism, Says Deal "Not Theoretically Possible" This Week
Here We Go Again: Greece Will Be In Default Within 15 Months, S&P Warns
Greek Deal On Monday "Not Possible" MNI Reports Despite Troika Attempt To Reconcile Differences
What Ordinary Greeks Think Of Friday's Deal: "We Went Through Two Months Of Agony To Realize We Are Still A Debt Colony"
Greek Government "Not Holding Out Much Hope" For Monday Even As Market Signals Deal Imminent
IMF Payment Sends Greek Yields Lower; Athens Warns "Next Month Is A Different Matter"
Eurogroup Meeting Delayed, Reportedly Due To Greeks "Sending Wrong Letter"
EU Official "Denies" Report Of "Greek Deal Pending" Rumor Which Sparked Stocks, Euro Surge
today's modern Diogenes of Sinope
Diogenes would never had bothered himself with trivial commerce issues...
The guy lived in the equivalent of a cardboard box in Corinth and was happy as well as admired by many including Alexander the Great.....
Alexander was in Corinth and eveyr philosopher, sophist was there to 'suck up to him'; only Diogenes, a Stoic, more respected than any didn't bother to attend . Eventually, curious, Alexander and his huge entourage went to find Diogenes - he was lying in the sun around his miserable hut. Alexander the Great asked him what Diogenes wanted of him (Alexander was extraordinarily generous if he asked one what one wanted, one could have asked for anything): Diogenes, replied,'You are blocking the Sun, can you please move? " The entourage gasped. Then Alexander put his head, blonde hair back guffawing ,laughing, replying, "If I were not Alexander , I would be Diogenes."
Blond hair? Typical Greek, me thinks.
Yes, most Macedonians at that time were blond and blue eyed-Aryans.
Ptolemy , one of Alexander's generals, another Macedonian, took Egypt as his Kingdom after Alexander died.
So Cleopatra was a Ptolemy 250 years later and was, like most Macedonians, blond, blue eyed as the Ptolemy family intermarried.
The Greeks today are nothing like their classical predeccessors. They are Turkish,Bulgarian, Gypsy, a motley stew of other ethnic groups .
Oh man!! I remember that painting from when I was a kid and haven't seen it since.
Dear Greece:
Run, do not walk, from the EU and the Euro, into the loving arms of the BRICs which, along with Stanistan, is the future.
BINGO!
Any everybody is forgetting just how the Natural Gas Pipeline (remember, that's the thing once again re-started the whole mess in the ME of late) deal that the Rooskies would like to cut is for Their (Russia's) pipeline to flow through Greece so that the Gulf's (America's "friends") doesn't.
Some really nice berthing waters right there in Athens, kiddies!
Just sayin', don't forget there's more to this then the EU/Troika?Greece affair, and I am damned certain (doesn't take a whole lot of imagination and a little bit of Fuck the EU) that the Vladster is the guy most focused on that dynamic. You know, that silly NATO/Old Soviet Empire stuff.
"Boo!"
You are aware that the EU killed the South Stream... correct?
As long as Greece is in the EU, the EU will not allow any pipeline to run through its territory without approval.
Go ask Austria, Hungary, etc.
Leaving the Euro Zone and dropping the Euro currency is one thing. Leaving the EU is not a possibility.
Greece leaving the EU is not only a possibility, it is the best option.
Russia may build another pipeline through, they may not, Europe can switch dependencies from Russia to Qatar and/or Israel...
Russia is looking south and east.
A handful of chinese and russian war ships ought to dissuade nato from an outright attack, and as for a 'color revolution' - CIA agents would be beaten to death in the streets by Golden Dawn.
The BRICs don't want those dopes either. Who wants an insolvent socialist mess?
YOU FUCKIN UGLY HUN-PAY THE FUCKIN WAR REPARATIONS NOW BITCH! 1.2 TRILLION WAS THE DAMAGE DONE FAGGOT!
The math will not be different no matter how many ways you look at it.
Greece is fucked, the Euro is fucked, and so is the Eurozone.
Nobody can let this debt be written off, and Greece cannot afford to carry it (interest).
Sorry fellas, no more fancy dinners and doublespeak.
The creditors are going to pull the plug? That is a good one. Greece is on the hook for so much that the creditors are waking up at night with the sweats.
Wonder if this default will be called one per the CDS? :)
pods
The CDS premium Collectors don't believe this is a default... they promised to bundle a few payments
They still got it covered.
AIG is underwriting all of it.
pods
In the world of imaginary numbers and hypothecation there is always available road to kick the can down.
My prediction regarding CDS remains the same. The oligarchs will make it all dissappear from their books.
Their debt will be gone, yours will not.
Same as it ever was.
This is why I laugh at the "jubilee" true believers, you'll get a jubilee alright. The CDS and derivatives will miraculously net out to zero. Your mortgage, car loan, credit card and student loans, not so much...
Hey it's still good paper: the Greeks said they would pay it back, with interest, under certain defined circumstances; I think the language was "when hell freezes over." So we keep the Greek debt on the balance sheet as "hold to maturity" valued at par. Pass the caviar.
"Nobody can let this debt be written off..."
And there's the logical fallacy. Of course it can be written off. It is a miniscule portion of our populace that benefits from a debt based currency system. If it disappears it is a benefit to everyone but the renters class. This is the reason they never want Greece or anyone else to default on sovereign debt. They can't have ANYONE see how much better off the people will be. The system must force feed you the blue pill daily to keep you in the Matrix. If Greece can somehow get out of its own way it's going to be a beacon for the world for the second time in it's history. A Greek people free of rentier debt could be the new "Shining City on the Hill" for that reason alone. I don't care what there GDP or employment number are. Freedom from the banisters is priceless.
yah, and to prove your point...I had lunch today right behind the AIG High Rise in Houston off of Allen Parkway. This entire area was completely depressed in 2008, and I mean that in more ways that one. They even took the AIG sign off the top of the building. It was gloom and doom baby. Then....they got their stack of billions from the taxpayers.
Today, you wouldn't even recognize the place. Surrounded by high end shopping (all new) and high end mid rise apartment buildings (all new). It's like economic boomtown. THANKS US TAXPAYERS for absorbing all their losses!!! What was it...$40 Bill? I forget....something like that.
And yet the Greek 10year holds steady today.
http://www.investing.com/rates-bonds/greece-10-year-bond-yield
++100.0098402345678 +/- 0.034567%
What would John Kerry do?
Complement Obozo on his pecker size????
Run it into the ditch?
Secretariat of State not in such good shape these days.
Put some ketchup on it?
Nicker and snicker.
break a leg?
Cry on Theraza's manly shoulder..
The difference between the USA and the EU is that they would have already of dragged the ECB and IMF into court on RICO charges......
Why do we need all these opinion pieces on Greece? I don't give a fuck anymore what anyone's "opinion" is on the matter.
German Bundestag will NOT vote for a 3rd bailout.
Unless they're collapsing the markets and painting the picture of "tanks in the streets if not signed", locking the politicians into parliament until they sign... there is NO MORE MONEY
Deal or No Deal makes no fucking difference. The Greeks didn't run of time, the Greeks ran out of OPM.
Brace for impact!
DEUTSCHE is at risk. Government is already snooping around there. They may take DB over short term. I can totally see this happening in order to prevent risk to sovereigns and sort out the fallout from Grexit.
Why would these bureaucrats leave the ramifications of a Grexit to the private sector? The "free" market is not free when it threatens to destabilize entire nations.
IMF walked out. They can't get anymore blood from a stone and they know it. No point in meeting any longer. Why the fuck Dieselboom is still talking up a "deal" is beyond me. Even if they came out and said, they will pretend and extend until March 2016? There's no upside for Greeks.
Done. Game Over.
LOL!!! Done for whom? So, the Greeks are no longer debt slaves and will have to sort their own country out for a change? Sounds fucking great to me!!!
Look at Iceland. Why after putting bankers in jail and telling the Brit's to get bent we were told that Iceland would implode and be swallowed whole by the Earth never to be heard from again.
Say is that island still there?
Yessir.
I smell a discreet nationalisation of DB in the offing.
So Germany's gdp triples. That's good isn't it?
Greece's time ran out when it joined the EU with fraud aided by the vampire squid.
Suicide may be painless but it takes a while.
Suicide is Painless (M.A.S.H Theme)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gO7uemm6Yo
No, the greeks are still debt slaves.
Well Greece coulda paid long time Dem Daschle or current DEM Podesta to lobby for loans, they did not..
PS god only knows what Japan has paid Repub lobbists and current pols like Ryan.. see below:
"Japan’s team also includes Hogan Lovells, which was paid $216,895.29 during the last six-month reporting period. The firm’s FARA filing states that the law firm “advises and represents the foreign principal [Japan] on general diplomatic representation, laws, regulations, policies, proposed congressional measures, treaties and other international agreements, and actions by the U.S. Congress, Executive Branch, U.S. Government agencies and certain state and local governments.”
Prior to recruiting Mr. Daschle, the highest profile lobbyist on Japan’s team was Tony Podesta, brother of Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman John Podesta. His firm, The Podesta Group, receives $15,000 per month to counsel Japan on U.S. policy.
Another TPP country, Vietnam, received more hands-on service from the Podesta Group—paying them $180,000 during the same six-month period. On Vietnam’s behalf, the firm made contact with government officials at least 90 times. They also engaged with media outlets ranging from The New York Times to the Food Network on behalf of Japan.
Working at the behest of foreign governments is a lucrative practice area for the Podesta Group which billed a total of $2,096,666.05 to more than nine overseas governments, including Azerbaijan, India, Iraq, Korea, Somalia, and Hong Kong during the last six month of 2014."
LOL!! Great information, if I were those contries, I'd demand a refund!!!
American finance in one line from Animal House...
"You fucked up, you trusted us."
Can I just short drachmas now, or do I have to wait?
You can bet that when Greece brings out the Drachmas again...that the intial exchange rate...will not be even close as to what it will go to in 6 months...they will devalue very quick
Sell Euro-banknotes with a Y before the serial number they are issued and printed by Greece and not guaranteed in case of a Grexit. At least avoid to have these tickets in your wallet!
If the new drachme is based on gold and linked with the Renminbi and Ruble then SELL EURGRD,GRD USD,......
Will be a very profitable trade.
I take Euro bills with a Y before the serial number at 40 cents a EURO.
The Russian Tax Office has just determined all of Confinental Europe owes Russia 200 trillion dollars on account of Napoleon and Hitler.
They plan on wiping the entire Contient off the map as repayment.
Yes, karma and moral hazard can be a real motherfucker like that...
same as it ever was...
Both sides of the battlefield are still in denial about the situation. Greece can neither pay the debt but neither can she continue to live and work as she has been doing.
The best solution is to freeze the debt and for Greece to be told WE HAVE REMOVED THE OXYGEN BOTTLE FROM YOUR MOUTH AND OUR HANDS FROM YOUR THROAT, NOW LET'S SEE WHAT YOU CAN DO ON YOUR OWN.
Then do it already motherfucker!!!!
Coulda, woulda, shoulda called Uncle Vlad.
BRICS and AIIB looking for customers.
Oh well, enjoy being the ass sluts of Merkel and the rest of the Goldmanite non-shellfish eaters.
Greeks taking it in the ass. That's what they do
PUT ON A TIE TSIPRAS!
They did call Uncle Vlad.
And then they rang up Uncle Ching.
And after they heard what Uncle Vlad and Uncle Ching wanted in return for helping their improvident Greek nephews out, they went back to begging for help from Dear Nice Sweet Auntie Angela and Great Aunt Christine.
Gives you some idea of who is offering the harshest terms.
BRICS can posture and make love calls to Greece but let's face it, do you think they will throw money at Greece for her to continue being a bureaucracy infested, system poor, corruption rich democracy?
BRICS are just as much in denial about their own mess and it is only China's wad of useless US bonds that is allowing her to strut the world stage.
AT THIS STAGE ... this has go nothing to do with finance or economics.
It's all human psychology.
We are simply watching a group of human beings - several groups actually - who CANNOT deal with reality.
Everything is DENIAL, POUTING, and POSTURING.
Yes, its called negotiating.
However the 'fuckit' moment is emotional, not logical, and I think thats where we are.
Even zee Germans are prone to emotionalism, sometimes even sober.
Once the ECB cow shuts off the ELA milk, it is Grexit time.
The West is bankrupt and just buying time. Greece needs to get the hell out of there, pay the price and get going again. The bailouts are for the banks not the Greeks who will be in massive debt forever if they don't wake up and face the fact that the massive debt cannot be repaid even if the banks take every drop of blood left. This is like trying to negotiate with a shark thinking there will be some concern for Greece's future but the shark just wants to eat them alive because it knows that the Greeks will soon be dead.
40% haircut on Greek debt is coming
Greece is passe. Let's talk S(pain).
Its worth bearing in mind that apart from private central banking itself, there is no entity more designed to fuck productive labor, and the middle class, out of their wealth and power than the European Union.
It is the quasi-fascist dream of people who hate liberty, love oligarchical government, and *hate* the people and cultures of Europe.
Those who advocate it are very often people whose mind rebels at the very notion of limited government, or national identity/culture.
But no one is arguing that you should be prevented a transnational identity, borrowing from the world's cultures and cuisines as you like. Have at it - there is a lot to be said for being an Anthony Bourdain like figure, at home everywhere but with no home.
But it is another matter to tell the Greeks, or Swedes, that their identity is of no value because you do not value it, or that their nations must accept the idea that not accepting displacement level immigration is "racism."
The true racism, of course, is those who deliberately intent to change the ethnic composition of Europe, or elsewhere, regardless of the will of the people of those lands, because of their own moral/ideological solipsism.
Nothing is more obvious than the fact someone who could not care about the will of the majority now, will not care about the will of the majority if .. when... the French join the Hawaiians, and others, as a tiny, disregarded minority in what was once their only home.
Don't ever confuse mere change, or mere motion - with progress.
On the other hand, those who would like to squeeze more and more out of productive labor to transfer to banks/capital reduce human beings to the 'homo economicus' - you may as well be a fucking living batttery free only to power the fiat banking Matrix.
They have no respect for those aspects of nations, cultures, or individuals, which reside outside that which can be entered into a spreadsheet.
The pro-EU crowd think only in term of the bottom line for large banks and transnational corporations and those who would exploit it. Free trade is one thing, but that's not what is at issue. Corporatism is what is at issue - governments blended with oligarchs and banks into a new feudal-fascism.
At issue is whether the Greeks have a right to be, to remain Greeks, *even if that is not optimum for the banking system*.
If all you see is debits and credits, it is incredibly easy to slaughter people in the millions in order to achieve the Best of All Possible Worlds.
nigga please, evolve or die, it has been that way since the dawn of time.
You absolutely missed the point.
Happens when you take from text mostly the inferences you carried in with you.
Try again.
Your mental masterbation changes nothing fucknut. I think it is you who missed the point. What you describe has been the way of the world since the dawn of time...
thanks captain obvious, let the men of action handle this.
Is that you Krugman?
LOP, he made good points there whether the event horizon has ocurred is a judgement call. Way of the world, I did not realize muslims settled Europe before euro's, in fact I thought they were stopped at Vienna..
Yes, so basically, no one really knows anything except the people on the ground in any given situation...
Gee, how insightful, not.
We actually agree in that the Greeks would be better off out ofthe E.Z., I have been saying this since 2008, but here we are, still.. stupid is as stupid does... shut the fuck up about it already.
It does not mean shit at this point, evolve/adapt or die, period.
LOp there was more to it than that but ok, if it got under your skin that badly..
Anyone who has lent Greece money deserves to lose it.
Anyone who lent money to Greece deserves a tax deduction.
If I owe the bank $1000, I have a problem. If I owe the bank $1,000,000 the bank has a problem.
Neither Greece nor the EU wants to be the one to be blamed for the breakup, but the relation is clearly over. If Tsipras were smart he'd be using his hardliners to "force" him into the split, while still claiming he's trying to stay in in good faith -- and waiting until the end hoping Germany takes the blame for ending it. In that case I sure hope he has a good solid plan in place (probably involving russian loans). we'll know soon.
Time will do the job for Tsipras. The Greek have only to wait ( and put their private money in safe places before).
All those people in the video, except for the reporters, are being paid via fraud. They all have to figure out a way to continue the fraud, slice it up, extend, pretend and argue who gets the biggest slice and the smallest. But in the end, they ALL must continue the fraud.
“There’s no more space for gambling, there’s no more time for gambling. The day is coming, I’m afraid, where someone says the game is over."
This could be said for all Western Economies, except Iceland and Germany. The EU and the USA are both victims to banker excess which has mortgaged all our futures for short term speculatory gains by Bankers, Hedge Funds and Large Trading Firms. The entire financial system is bankrupt, when the losses finally have to be booked, the entire fiscal system, private and state will sink into depression and monetary collaspe of fiat. When does it happen? If I knew that I would be god. All you can do is evaluate the facts and guess at how long extend and pretend, via money printing, can last. I thought we would have failed by now, I was dead wrong! So we just prepare our families for it, and wait.
In other news...
Dominique Strauss-Kahn told a French court he participated in sex parties because he needed 'recreational sessions' while he was 'saving the world' http://www.businessinsider.com/dominique-strauss-kahn-on-sex-party-allegations-2015-6#ixzz3cmEYXS3F
Put some windex on it.
Greece has met its creditors’ demands more than halfway, according to Joseph Stiglitz, and still the int'l bankers aren't satisfied. It’s time for Greece to depart this corrupt union of political elites and to say good-bye to the IMF.
Why Greece Must Leave Eurozone
Jun 09, 2015 By: Raul_I_Meijer
Excerpt:
French Economy Minister Emmanuel Macron and German Vice-Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel published a piece in the Guardian last week that instantly revived our long nourished hope for the European Unholy Union to implode and be dissolved, sooner rather than later. The two gentlemen propose a ‘radical’ reform for the EU. Going a full-tard 180º against the tide of rising euroskeptism, the blindest bureaucrats in European capitals are talking about more centralization in the EU.
Here’s hoping that they follow up with all the energy they can muster, and that we’ll hear a lot more about the ‘reforms’ being proposed. Because that will only serve to increase the resistance and skepticism. Let them try to ‘reform’ the EU. We’re all for it. If only because if they do it thorough enough, referendums will be required in all 28 member nations, which all need to agree, in a unanimous approval vote.
The gents know of course that that is never ever going to happen. So sneaky ways will have to be found. Something Brussels is quite experienced at. They’ve shown many times they won’t let a little thing like 500 million citizens get in their way. We’re curious to see what they’ll come up with this time.
Meanwhile, though, the rising skepticism threatens to rule the day in many countries, and Greece is by no means the leader in the field. Germany has a rising right wing party that wants out (just wait till Merkel leaves). Marine Le Pen has vowed to take France out as soon as she gets to power, and she leads many polls. Britain’s Ukip is merely the vanguard of a broad right wing UK ‘movement’ that either want out or have treaties thoroughly renegotiated.
Portugal’s socialists are soaring in the polls on an EU-unfriendly agenda. Spain’s Podemos is no friend of Brussels. In Italy, M5S’s Beppe Grillo has gone from skeptic to outright adversary over the past few years. There are varying levels of antagonism in all other countries too.,,,
Now obviously, not all countries in the union carry the same weight, politically speaking (why do we so easily agree that’s obvious, though?). You have Germany, then a big nowhere, then France and Britain.
Greece, equally obviously, has no say...
If either France or Germany leave -the former looks far more likely right now-, it’s project over. The same would probably hold for Italy. Spain would be a grave blow….
As for Greece, all the negotiations really are just a matter of fiddling while Rome burns. But that is not because Greece is in trouble; it’s because of what the EU has become. A club that depends on its ability to scare members into submission, the same vein the IMF operates in. The negotiations are about amounts of debt that were imposed upon Greece by the troika when it decided to bail out banks of Europe’s most powerful member nations and put the Greek people on the hook.
Europe’s high and mighty will yet come to regret the decision not to restructure these banks, because this will be the catalyst that blows up the Union. The reason why will become apparent as debt rises further and asset markets start falling off so many cliffs.
Greece should get out as fast as it can, all member countries should, especially the poorer ones. There is no benign or even economically viable future for any of them in the Union. A future inside the union is infinitely more frightening than one outside….
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article51016.html
good stuff.
I expect that few people on a libertarian blog ever read much socialist or communist philosophy, which is understandable, but in a purely academic sense, some of it is quite good, and if good as philosophy, can be food for thought to criticize any system people make up to, a the end of the day, control how other people live.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-Dimensional_Man
One Dimensional Man is, imho, a fantastic book. From the wiki:
In a letter to the New York Review of Books, Georg H. Fromm, William Leiss et al. outlined the major themes of the book as follows:[2]
(1) The concept of “one-dimensional man” asserts that there are other dimensions of human existence in addition to the present one and that these have been eliminated. It maintains that the spheres of existence formerly considered as private (e.g. sexuality) have now become part of the entire system of social domination of man by man, and it suggests that totalitarianism can be imposed without terror.
(2) Technological rationality, which impoverishes all aspects of contemporary life, has developed the material bases of human freedom, but continues to serve the interests of suppression. There is a logic of domination in technological progress under present conditions: not quantitative accumulation, but a qualitative “leap” is necessary to transform this apparatus of destruction into an apparatus of life.
(3) The analysis proceeds on the basis of “negative” or dialectical thinking, which sees existing things as “other than they are” and as denying the possibilities inherent in themselves. It demands “freedom from the oppressive and ideological power of given facts.”
(4) The book is generally pessimistic about the possibilities for overcoming the increasing domination and unfreedom of technological society; it concentrates on the power of the present establishment to contain and repulse all alternatives to the status quo.
I would put it to you that Marcuse may as well have been writing about the pro-EU cryptofascists.
Who would think to look to Marx (1843) for true enlightenment, but here is Marx in his essay “On the Jewish Question” reviewing and supporting the works of Bruno Bauer from Die Judenfrage:
“Money is the jealous god of Israel, beside which no other god may exist. Money abases all the gods of mankind and changes them into commodities. Money is the universal and self-sufficient value of all things. It has, therefore, deprived the whole world, both the human world and nature, of their own proper value. Money is the alienated essence of man’s work and existence, this essence dominates him and he worships it.
“The god of the Jews has been secularized and has become the god of this world. The bill of exchange is the real god of the Jew. His god is only an illusory bill of exchange.”
Philosophy in one hand and human nature in the other equals a double handful of shit.
The Greek Problem:
-EU and IMF have fucked up one more time and lost 500 billion euro but more than that EU and Germany are in danger to lose trillions if Greece were to spin out of euro.
- Greek voters and goverments only want to protect 1 milion public servants and hundreds thousands of big pensioners let the country be damned on everything else, so they need the euro and to keep receiving loans,
- US and all others just want to keep Wall Street out of the danger "zone" that means Greece stays in euro and no one speaks about the 500 billion black hole...
Its politics as always but is it getting almost impossible to achieve these nice targets or is it my idea that the whole problem will explode at their faces?
Same shit, different day. "this is the last chance" or "Greece will default by X date". Great for click bait, but it ain't happening. EXTEND and PRETEND ad infinitum. We'll all be talking about the exact same shit next year at the same time.
Did you read the article ?
The IMF, the lender of last resort, has left the table.
Wolf has been cried too many times already for sure.
Doesn't mean you are not about to be eaten though.
At this point, I won't believe any of this until I become wolf shit.
Just don't forget that one detail.
The temperature may differ but we are all slowly boiled.
And if one does not step out one WILL be eaten.
Take care
K a n s
If I owe my bank $1000 and I can't pay, I have a problem.
If I owe my bank $100,000,000 and I can't pay, my bank has the problem.
Same thing here. The reason this poker game goes on and on is that Greece is holding all the face cards.
If you owe your bank $100,000,000, then the taxpayers have a problem.
Fixed it for you.
Socialism works until you run out of everyone else's money.
Why do think Fast Track is so important? Don't fucking tell the taxpayers about it, just pass it. Then the negro president wants TPP to organize 12 other countries.
Broad daylight fleecing. If the trade agreement is so beneficial, why not share the details before passing? If you hide deception, the lie will be exposed eventually
>>Socialism works until you run out of everyone else's money.
lol Try telling that to the Pentagon and the MIC
"No Time" by The Guess Who
On my way to better thingsI'll find myself some wings
Distant roads are calling me
(No time left for you)
No time for a summer friend
No time for the love you send
Seasons change and so did I
You need not wonder why
You need not wonder why
There's no time left for you
No time left for you
On my way to better things
I'll find myself some wind
Distant roads are calling me
No time for a gentle rain
No time for my watch and chain
No time for revolving doors
No time for the killing floor
No time for the killing floor
There's no time left for you
No time left for you
No time for a summer friend
No time for the love you send
Seasons change and so did I
You need not wonder why
You need not wonder why
There's no time left for you
No time left for you
No time, no time, no time, no time
No time, no time, no time, no time
I got, got, got, got no time
No, no, no, no, no, no, no time
Dear Greek people,
Be on the look out for the Dancing Mossads.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission..
Gleiwitz incident on border with Macedonia or Turkey?
..........................Both?
You wouldn't know it by the way EUR/USD is trading today. I guess they are ALL dirty shirts in the laundry
It is really easy to see the Greek strategy. They are always letting it go to the edge of the abyss so they can get the best deal possible. I believe the Germans are getting tired of this game. You can already hear talks around on how Greece is not really systemic. They better cut a deal now before the whole country gets margin called : ) )
The IMF needs the money to wage war against Russia in the Ukraine.
The Failure of Greece in this matter may eventually cause the failure of the Eurozone. In that case Greece may by default (pun intended) re-establish Democracy in Europe.
Max
Time for an Icelandic solution.
Markus Söder, Bavarian finance minister of the CSU, sister-party oft the Merkel-party CDU, claimed this eveninig in a popular German talkshow with unusual clarity for a Grexit. It hasn’t been a spontaneous carelessness but a determined declaimed position from one of the most influential leaders inside the centre of political power in Germany.
So it should be gradually clear that we are in the final round of the Greek theater because an „official“ commitment like this is another clear challenge against Angela Merkel – an infailible sign of an upcoming - more and more open - rebellion between the rows of Angela Merkels party.
Meanwhile Söders position is also widely established in medias (or vice-verca?) , the rabble of anxious and opportun political turncoats is shifting to the opposite shore to be on the right sight in time before hunting the culprits of the waste of billions will remain without result.
12 month ago medias still appealed for a position of comprehension for Greece (....and bankers...), in an endless loop pronouncing Merkels positions („no alternatives“ for future funding) and the usual paternalistic, omnipresent & invisible voice about „Europe“ identity, solidarity and common values.