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Europe Gives Greece 24 Hours To Comply; Germany Draws Up Capital Control Plans
EU officials turned up the heat on Athens Thursday after the IMF withdrew its team and sent its lead negotiators back to Washington.
In what can only be described as a half-hearted effort, Greek PM Alexis Tsipras submitted two three-page proposals earlier this week that were dismissed by creditors as “not serious.” We suggested that perhaps that was intentional as Tsipras, having bought Greece some time by opting for the “Zambian” IMF payment bundle, is simply keeping up appearances while the real negotiating is going on behind the scenes with Syriza party hardliners who Tsipras desperately needs to support any proposal before it goes to parliament in order to avoid what could quickly deteriorate into a political and social crisis.
One has to believe that Brussels understands this, but it could very well be that between Tsipras’ scathing op-ed (published two Sundays ago) and the PM’s fiery speech to parliament last Friday, creditors are becoming concerned that Tsipras might actually be starting to believe that he can effectively blackmail the EMU by threatening to prove, once and for all, that the currency bloc is in fact dissoluble no matter what manner of protestations one might hear in polite company.
So, with the IMF having thrown in the towel, and with German lawmakers set to rally behind the incorrigible FinMin Wolfgang Schaeuble in what amounts to a mutiny on the SS Merkel, Europe appears to have finally had enough because by Thursday evening, reports indicated that EU officials have given Greece 24 hours to come back with a proposal that includes pension reform and VAT increases.
Via Bloomberg:
Greece was warned by a group of European Union officials in Brussels it had less than 24 hours to come up with a serious counter-proposal, according to a person familiar with the discussion.
Greek delegate told by EU officials that a list must includes reform on pension and VAT.
Greece told by the officials that they are taking seriously all scenarios.
EU official didn’t specifically say what would happen to Greece if there was no plan presented tomorrow.
And meanwhile, Reuters (citing Bild) says Germany is now engaged in “concrete” discussions over how to handle a Greek bankruptcy :
The German government is holding "concrete consultations" on what to do in the case of a bankruptcy of the Greek state, German newspaper Bild said, citing several people familiar with the matter.
This includes discussions about introducing capital controls in Greece if the crisis-stricken country goes bankrupt, Bild said in an advance copy of an article due to be published on Friday.
It said a debt haircut for Greece was also being discussed, adding that government officials were in close contact with the European Central Bank on that.
The German government did not, however, have a concrete plan of how it would react if Greece goes bankrupt and much would have to be decided on an ad-hoc basis, Bild cited the sources as saying.
The takeaway here is that come hell, high water, or "Grimbo," the EU is going to extract its pension cuts and VAT hikes from Tsipras, and not because anyone seriously thinks it will make a difference in terms of putting the country on a 'sustainable' path, but because the EU simply cannot afford for Syriza sympathizers in more economically consequential countries like Spain to get any ideas about rolling back austerity (of 'fauxsterity' as it were) and using EMU membership as a bargaining chip.
The only question now is whether Tsipras has been successful at convincing party hardliners to support further concessions, because if this turns into a protracted political battle, it's entirely possible that the country will descend into chaos, if only for a few weeks.
Stay tuned, and as a reminder, here's a flowchart that outlines various political and economic ramifications as well as a guide to what's being negotiated:
»
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A well. Good time to go home short VIX.
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Perfect timing for a bank holiday, the 24 hours will be Friday evening. We'll see, this has gone on for soo long already.
hey thunder pants, why don't you take your laptop to Greece or Syria and show them how to make the big bucks?
Using fraudulent means designed by Goldman Sachs to hide Greece's true debt level (which Germany knew about), Greece entered the EU and now Germany is drawing-up capital control plans for Greece.
This will still not save the 10-yr Bund.
Listen to your local German. Get packed for yom kipor
https://youtu.be/8l_YrPvP7YA
The European Union was a horrible idea, and will fail.
Greece represents 2% of EU economic output at present, and probably represents 3.5% of total net debt held by EU slave states.
Once Greece defaults further in fact (whether de facto or de jure) - despite the already default whereby Greece deposit flight has been happening as Greek banks are reconstituted with Euros by the ELA through the ECB), Portugal, Spain & Italy are on deck (my Italian friends tell me Italian tax collectors are actually cracking down on Italians for the 1st time in Italian history).
Even France is at risk of a deeper recession than it suffered in 2008-2009, as its economic foundation is extremely fractured).
The northern EU net-positive balance of trade and non-debtor EU states will see a further voter/citizen revulsion at the the notion of continuing to float PIIGS, and it's a mathematical certainty that it all falls down like dominoes.
Ja, vee zee Germanz are giving you 24 hours to surrender. Wenn you do not surrender, you vill be given another 30 day grace period, followed by another 60 day emergency grace period.
YOU HAVE 24 HOURS!
I agree with the Germans. Greece should be invaded, and her citizens should be sold into slavery. That's what happens to deadbeats.
I wondner if this is why the two Deutsche CEOs threw in the towel.
Greece is approximatly 20x Lehman.
DB is way more exposed Greek debt than AIG was.
Someone told the "inner circle" the game is over, and they were like "welp, um .... I think its time to retire, and I am going to be diversifying my personal accounts into Russia & China. Königsburg is nice this time of year. You all have fun."
Your theory is similar to Dave Kranzler's.
http://www.silverdoctors.com/fund-manager-a-derivatives-bomb-exploded-wi...
I for one am getting tired of all the "stuff" being the worst Since Lehman®. Maybe soon it will be all the stuff being the worst Since DeutscheB®.
<- My name
<- not my name
What?
I think he is asking for a vote on if this is the "Final Event".
Draws Up Capital Control Plans
The smart money got out weeks ago.
They say those who panic first panic best.
I imagine the paranoid money left years ago. The smart money left in Jan/Feb, and now its just the average idiots dragging their heels.
Financial Drama Times?
https://youtu.be/jVO8sUrs-Pw
if i had a dollar for every word typed about this crapolla, ha what joke...
FWIW:
1. My understanding was that although DB _did_ have a lot of Greek exposure, they have now moved it on (mostly to German state(AKA German taxpayers));
2. I still think that unless Greeks themselves pull out of EUR, at any genuine crisis Merkel will simply use German taxpayers to pay any Greek bills falling due - so I don't see why any Greek politico will ever pull out (doesn't mean situation is stable, sensible or even desirable);
3. I agree with another poster that Greece is basically distraction - if you want to worry about EUR-zone/EU breakup, look at Spain.
Watson
Watson,
This makes sense if you only look at primary debt exposure. That DB did shift to the Bund. However, I could not care less about the $330 billion or so in primary debt the Greek government could default on.
I care about CDS and then the subsequent margin calls from the chaos that follows, and then the subsequent CDS as the first round of CDS holders (secondary debt exposure) get margin called into oblivion.
This is what keeps me awake at night.
There´s so much talk about the DB´s CDS over the past years but in fact nobody knows exactly about the amount of liabilities in case of a Greek default. In my view the real dangers within the international finance system are alway there were the public cannot see them. So my gut feeling is that it´s not DB that will be the cause of a crash in the events of a Greek default, but something else. Of course, all the big players will be in danger in that event, including DB. And btw,
Throw those pathetic Greek dead beats out of Europe already.
DB Greek exposure via CDS would surely show up in DB's total Greek exposure.
Wouldn't this show up in published accounts?
Watson
If you have a public account that shows exactly DB´s Greek exposure provide a link or source please, i don´t have one. The only thing i know that they have a huge exposure in the derivative markets in general, which isn´t a good thing in general in the event of an overall market crash, but it´s possible too that they will be "winner" in such an event.
A restructuring of Greece's debt is absolutely essential, otherwise the chances of a recovery for the country are extremely slim, political economist Philippe Legrain said on Thursday, in a public hearing before the "Debt Truth" Committee in the Greek Parliament.
http://www.amna.gr/english/articleview.php?id=10041
The troika saved banks and creditors – not Greece
The funds were, to a large degree, channelled back to the creditor countries. This entailed a double shift in liabilities: from the banks of the periphery to the governments (and citizens) of the periphery; and from the banks of the core to the governments (and citizens) of the eurozone as whole, since most of the troika bailout funds came from EMU countries.
With most of the bailout money going to banks and creditors, Greece doesn't just need debt relief, it deserves it.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/thomas-fazi/troika-save...
While you are correct, Greece cannot restructure debt within the EMZ. Its just impossible.
No, DB's CDS exposure is lumped into DB's Derivative Exposure, which is not subject to the same reporting requirements as other normal liabilities until they are realized. A.k.a. -
These won't show up on the balance sheet until they become due, at which point the game is over. No one knows their exact exposure, as this is internal to DB and there are no reporting requirements.
So, DB must report its direct exposure to Greek debt, it has no obligation to report its exposure to Greek debt via CDS.
The Elephant In The Room: Deutsche Bank's $75 Trillion In Derivatives Is 20 Times Greater Than German GDP
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-28/elephant-room-deutsche-banks-75...
Even if just 1% of that is tied to Greek GDP, thats 750 Billion €.
That would be the end of DB.
"These won't show up on the balance sheet until they become due..."
ergo, it will be worse than almost anyone might imagine.
See my above post.
why cant the ecb stabilize the "out of balance" derivitives? they will keep the train on the tracks. behind the scenes they will do whatever it takes. and you and i will hear very little about the ugly print pledged to keep this shit show going. just another huge kick of da can...
Because those derivatives are written in the branches of all the TBTF banks in the City of London, which is not part of the UK and not part of the EU.
Don't forget that Spain retains a law hich makes it legal not to disclose debts. Hence the likes of Santander get to perpetuate the myth that they escaped exposure to the Spanish property bubble. The published property market losses in Spain remain greatly understated, imho.
Greece was warned by a group of European Union officials in Brussels it had less than 24 hours to come up with a serious counter-proposal,according to a person familiar with the discussion.
I think this was already written more than 24 hours ago. They will kick the can again and again. The people are so either stupid or totally brainwashed or paid not to see.
Here's a Conspiracy Theory. The banking powers are sick of having Iceland thrown up in thier face of how when a government stands up the the fraudulant bankers the nation will prosper. They will not make the same mistake with Greece. They will do everything to show how standing up to the banks causes ruin.
75 an hour on the laptop?
Never heard of a laptop dance before.
What kind of music does she play?
Anyone keeping count on how many stock rallies there have been based on false, made-up and semi-true Greece deals? It's beyond the point of being funny. Can you say stealth QE gettin' pumped into da' market? The only question is which central bank is doin' it this time? Seems like they take turns and pass the baton.
Oh yeah, any day is a good day to short VIX. Gold, silver and VIX are the three things it's 100% to rig lower.
Germany must have just realized the Greeks are pulling 1/2 a billion a day of Euros out the system and will NOT ne putting it back in, if they dont put a stop to it ASAP, the whole shitshow implodes, that s FRB for ya!
smart play on the Greeks part
I've noticed HPC. The absence of a negative event does not predicate a net positive effect on the global financial market. They are celebrating the fact that Greece has not yet officially defaulted with consecutive all-time highs. There is no longer any measure of perspective; likely by design. A signal of impending chaos.
I'm posting here in this unimportant thread about an ongoing saga to say that this website has long since jumped the shark. Zerohedge has become a steaming pile of advertising crap and pop-ups. Sure, I could download for free or purchase a pop-up blocker and other advertising-foiling software to combat this shithole, but that is too much trouble for the crap content that is being auto-generated ala quote stuffing algos on wall street.
Sure, I understand that capitalism drives the fundamentals of this place and ads pay. Still, if you think about IBM or Microsoft...they started with a real idea developed by real people and then turned it into a cash cow; devoid of innovation and invention. They lost their soul for $$$. They made themselves expendible. This place has made itself useless to most people. It is a trap. A blind alley. I'd typically say that it is me that has changed and not the subject of my ire. However, I'm largely done changing in this life and realize that it is this place that fell for the bait, hook, line, and sinker with its need to grow, Grow, GROW!!! The owner of this joint could have had integrity and made a living. Instead, we got a sellout.
Call me naive. I'm still disappointed by people who suck.
Install Adblock Plus (add-on) on Firefox, Safari or Chrome. No more ads online, period.
Funny I don't see one.single.ad. Try using technology!
What are these "ads" of which you write? I've yet to see a single one on ZH (or any other site I visit using my browser). But then, I have installed adblock! Try it, it really works!
yah-Germany is going to put Greece on double secret probation-like maybe next month?
Gerxit precedes Grexit
It is a human rights violation to use humans as collateral. Which was the purpose and intent of the EU
whatever.
The count down to the next count down has begun!
Germany was forgiven their debts to allow a new start, even though they had killed tens of millions of people. Greece though, is being held to account by the same Germans. Odd how they forget their crimes and the wests forgiveness.
Greeks will be screwed either way. But the EU path, is a path of known debt slavery for 50-100 years. The default path might offer hope inside a decade. After Russia defaulted, it came back in 10 years. It can be done. Iceland was finished, defualted to europe, and now is back.
The EU Soviet Communist Dictatorship is fixed on total compliance. The Brussels Soviet will have it's way. The EU is turnign into a German economic dictatorship and an American Military Crusade against Russia. What can go wrong?
Burn Brussels to the ground and kill every last man, woman and child.
Line the main road of the smoking ruins with pikes on which are impaled the heads of every last God damn IMF official.
Hang the bankers by their feet in front of the Grand Palace and cut their hands off at the wrists, letting them bleed to death.
Dismember any EU official, member or seat-holder and return their remains to their country of origin, along with a warning those countries that any further attempts to continue the failed EU experiment will result in the same response.
Track down the members of the ECB in Frankfurt and hang them in public, slowly strangling them on the noose as they struggle rather than snapping their necks.
Then round up every last central banker on earth and burn them alive in piles of their own fiat along with copious amounts of diesel fuel.
Throw every last U.S. citizen, agent and soldier out of Europe, cancelling visas and banning them from setting foot in any nation in Europe forever. Seize any American company's assets inside Europe or it's banks and distribute the proceeds to the European people.
Declare permanent boycott, divestment and economic sanctions against the U.S. and Israel, responsibility for violations to apply to the entire boards and members of any corporations and are punishable by death.
For cryin' out loud, is that REALLY too much to ask?
As an American I must object. Why waste diesel fuel?
Quote "Burn Brussels to the ground and kill every last man, woman, and child." End Quote
Someone isn't playing any more, and it reafirms my decisions on buying Guns, Gold, Silver, and Ammo...
Bankers burning at the stake make a cost-effective and environment-friendly heating method that reduces one's carbon footprint while discouraging wholesale plundering of economies in the future.
..........I'm on to it. Where's the list of names..........
My understanding is that Germans weren't forgiven their debts originally. After WWI they had very harsh reparations, which led to the Weimar republic hyperinflation, with the resulting severe poverty for the average German, with the exception of the few with connections to the financial industry who were able to convert their currency out of the Deutschmark. The result was extreme nationalism and xenophobia (plus a disdain for the financially well connected, pronounced jewish) and the rise of the Nazis. After WWII Germany was forgiven much of its debts, largely because Europe realized the disaster austerity caused but also because the west didn't want West Germany to appear weaker and worse off than East Germany. I'm not sure Greece poses the same threat, although the potential shift to the Russia/China Axis might be their best trump card.
I like how people make it seem like it was only Germany that killed millions of people and needed to pay for what they had done.
Stalin killed millions and the rest of the Allies killed their fair share.
The reality was that the armies fought the wrong people and should have overthrown all of their respective governments and killed every banker they could find.
The true enemy of mankind is the money changer. Always has been and always will be.
Its a shame I can only upvote you once.
It is a shame that I can only downvote you only once as he barely scratches the truth.
Why don't ya teach yourself some history?
Now this is too funny....
Was Flybyknight junked at all?
Not by me.
The truth is written below this post.
If he uparrowed a shallow post then it is obvious that he needs to learn more...much more.
LMAO at your need for consensus.
Y'all lack any grounding in yer convictions.
Francis Sawyer is right about one thing. This crowd is becoming lame. Y'all are too easily led by yer nose.
Mankind is mankind's worst enemy.
Y'all are deonstrative of that.
The sad truth is even worse.
American Industrialists installed Hitler.
That war could have been stopped before it ever started.
Ford Motor Company and General Motors built the Wehrmacht and supplied it...throughout the ENTIRE WAR. (Even Americans knew that if they needed spare parts that they could just steal them from the Germans as the parts were interchangable.)
The prisoners at the Dachau Concentration Camp worked as slave laborers for Ford Motor Company.
There was finally a judgment settled in an American Court, in 1997, awarding the survivors from that camp compensation.
Standard Oil and John D. Rockefeller supplied the FUEL OIL to the Germans throughout the ENTIRE WAR.
We were responsible for giving the Fuel Additives to the Nazi War Machine that allowed the German Luftwaffe to bomb London relentlessly.
Even after America entered the war Standard Oil continued to supply the Germans with Oil from South American Refineries and sent it via Switzerland.
The true enemy of mankind is mankind. The Industrialist and the Bankster has profitted immensly from the spilled blood of soldiers...American, German, Russian, or otherwise.
There was nothing good about the "Good War"...nothing at all.
Red Team, Blue Team rah...rah...rah.
USA. Russia rah..rah...rah...
Nationalism is like rooting for a God damned Sports Team.
And most of you fall into this bullshit, come out stenching like shit, and then wondering why.
And the elitists laugh at you, loyal to no one but themselves, engorged like fucking mosquitos, vampires, on the blood of the fallen, the suffering of the ignoramous masses.
So please tell me who the enemy is again? Because YOU SUPPORT THEM EVERY TIME THAT YOU SPEND YOUR MONEY INTO THE ECONOMY.
Financial support IS SUPPORT. And y'all are guilty mother fuckers.
The true enemy of mankind IS MANKIND. And there is not one who is innocent, not even myself, who writes upon these pages.
OPT OUT.
From your comments, I see a lot of parallels between America's role in creating and sustaining the Nazi regime and what we see today with ISIS.
Nothing changes.
No. Nothing changes.
The people, the vast majority, are just Nationalistic Statists.
It is sad that there is no hope as they are too easily manipulated by Bread and Circuses (Sports).
They cannot see it in themselves and they refuse to see through it.
And the elitists are vampires profitting from the needless spilling of blood....laughing their asses off at the deluded masses.
It seems as if we have a greater influx of these types on these pages recently.
Sad.
Good thing we have ZH to shed some light about these issues.................free speech baby
While I have no doubt that Ford liked what he saw in Hitler as opposed the Stalin, I must take issue with your interchangeable parts statement. It would be a major mechanical feat to install the engine of an FW 190 or a ME 109 in a P-51 Mustang. Nothing out of a K 98 will fit in a M-1 Garand. Even the ammunition is not interchangeable. These are all totally different weapons systems designed by independent teams of engineers. Even the threads on the screws are different.
Don't forget all the German companies that bankrolled the Nazi war machine, like Ford Motors, Standard Oil, IBM and... er...
They did not bankroll them.
THEY PRODUCED WAR MATERIALS. PRODUCTION!!!
They PROVIDED THE WEAPONS THAT KILLED OUR SOLDIERS.
And you did not read above?
Fuckin lame.
Calling Germany on its hypocrisy in the EZ debt crisis
American and British industrialists invested heavily in Germany between WW1 and WW2, and this resulted in early repayment of the heavy war debt put on Germany by the Dulles brothers at Versailles. Germany was considered the bulwark against Russia after the Russian revolution for the elite. After WW2 the elite wanted their "investment" back thru operation paperclip Nazis were brought to US. The tape recorder used by Hitler to broadcast his 'black' propaganda all day and night was stolen after the war by US and given as a freebee to Ampex corporation... aka Bing Crosbys company.
Apart from a constant outflux of German quality goods in exchange for used toilet paper aka "the dollar", Germany paid with its souvereignty. More than a quarter million of American military "personel" on German soil at the discretion of whichever cardboard monkey figures as "US president". Germans still do pay, don't worry.
The Banks are saying We Destoyed the US Financial System again in 2008, we continue to blackmail them to do as we ask, we are still in charge of the USA, we have done this many times.
Greece can not win, they have no funding except through Western Banks or Banks that we control. And we control their credit ratings.
Our Territory is clearly Marked here. The Americas, the Caribbean, USA, Canada, Europe, North Africa, African Coasts, Australia, Much of Asia.
We have Control. We own the Banking & Credit. Greece must Submit. We have controlled Europe for nearly 400 years.
But Iceland proved different. They just said "No".
And Americans don't even think this is stupid?
We don't see it has to be Coercion, Intimidation & Threats to do to us what they did to Germany after WWI and the whole World War against Germany in World War II.
re: Jack Burton
Are you on drugs?
Germany is being bled dry ever since the occupation started, basically directly after all your brave GIs pulled their rapist dicks out of our women.
Everything not nailed down was seized, every home (already paid for) got mortaged again and every last penny of private equity was vaporized.
And stop fucking blaming the politics of the US muppets that constitute our occupation government on our people, if we were a sovereign country Europe wouldn´t be in this mess.
Germany, Germany rah...rah...rah...
USA...USA rah...rah...rah...
Get yer head outta yer ass.
That is the reason you are not prospering. You are so blinded by yer own asshole that you cannot see the enemy.
After you remove yer head from your ass then look in the mirror.
And keep buying the shit that you do not need in order to financially support the ones whom are responsible....After all it is you that supports it...with your spending.
Financial support is support.
That is right.
YOU want someone to blame? Look at yourself, schistkopf.
Get your lame imperialist shabbo arses out of my country, then we can talk.
I know who the enemy is, its the guys with their hands up your governments butt for over a hundred years now.
And you prove yourself to be just another statist.
Your accidental geographical location of your birth makes you neither better nor any worse than anyone else.
Get your head out of your ass and see it.
Lose your bullshit nationalism.
LOL, hardly a statist mate.
I didn´t claim such a thing, did I? Given the fact that sovereign nations are the only alternative to our globalized status quo, I really can´t see why I should lose it? To make way for the cultural marxists?
Nah...
Given the fact that sovereign nations are the only alternative to our globalized status quo...
And that statement is what gives you away...
You are blinded to your own HYPOCRISY.
I refuse to buy into the False Dilemma Logical Fallacy.
There are other alternatives. Choosing those means that you will have to abandon your Socialism..
Yes you are a statist and there is little hope that you will declare your own sovereign rights.
I hope Greece bails, because if they do, others will follow. It will be a knife into the heart of globalization...
Not to worry. They don't.
Greece needs to grow a pair. You guys did good against Hitler - what happened? Ditch this shit, the world will thank you and like Iceland, you'll recover. You're already assured of that by Russia's TurkStream.
Just EXIT
Phuck der EU. Nuland 4 President. Need someone with balls in der WH.
"24 Hours to comply"....we haven't heard this one before...this is a new first for the marketing dept. Tomorrow will be the "Second 24 hour" demand, followed by the "emergency 36 hour conference..."..
Just a new meta....
It doesn't get serious until they draw a line in the olive orchard.
Better to die standing than submit your people to hopeless unending slavery and your country an amusement park for the global 1%.
Pull the pin - the sun will still come up in the morning.
"Tis better to live one day as a lion, then a lifetime as a dog"
~ The Canary
It's the people who are choosing unending slavery - not the government. Strangely enough, the Greek people are happy to live under that slavery. They still want the Euro, they love the EU, but they don't want austerity - austerity that is requried to remain in the EuroZone. I wonder if they have ever heard the expression, "You can't have your cake and eat it too."?
the Greek people want the EURO because they dont feel responsible for all the debt burden that has been placed on their heads by corrupt bankster-politician scumbags....
why suffer for the shake of corrupt elitists
the scumbag bankers should not have given the money in the first place based on credit conditions AND the scumbag Greeks should not have taken it
what does the average greek knew about this? Jack Shit!!
I think most of the Greek's understand the stark reality facing them. The Iceland example is their best option and they know it. The question remains, is there enough political will power to hit the reset button and go into bankruptcy. I hope for their own benefit they do hit the reset button.
You probably think wrong. Latest poll (posted on ZH today) showed majority of Greeks prefer to be anal raped, if the bankers really insist.
Great Poll.
Who conducted it?
Who did the counting?
What was the number of people polled, or the polling area?
What is the margin of error?
Anyone notice that the "majority" was a whole 50.2%??
My first thought was that Greece should grow a pair(balls); but upon further reflection; concluded that they are soft and sensitive.
Instead They should grow a Vagina, they can take a pounding!
Greek PM to German FinMin: "Rutsch mir den Pukel runter. Du kannst mich mal, Du Vixer!
Ist das serious genug fur Sie, Herr Reichsminister?"
Call their bluff!!! Even if it isn't slap them silly. One is supposed to bargain in good faith. Germans governing officials are such assholes. When are they going to learn, after a greek financial nuke thats when.
They should all join Putin and China and stop being stupid.
All they need to do is :
Fcuk the EU.
Fcuk the US.
Fcuk the NATO.
be free & not remain a cockSuckerToWest
Have your own identity like Swiss etc.
All they need to do is :
Fcuk the EU.
Fcuk the US.
Fcuk the NATO.
be free & not remain a cockSuckerToWest
Have your own identity like Swiss etc.
Pretty much a No- Brainer
1) Stay in the euro and live through 100 years of slavery
or
2) Leave the Euro, Join Putin and keep all your shit, live in peace, and actually make trade deals that can benefit your country and grow the economy (oil/gas pipelines and shit)
Not to mention the sanctions being enforced between Russia and Greece would go "poof" and greece can export and trade with Russia again...
And not to forget that Russia makes A GREAT MILITARY ALLY.... No one would fuck with Greece if Russia had their back . . . and Russia would be glad to have Greece just as a "fuck you" to Europe "from Russia with love"
The euro system is garbage, its just one giant cluster fuck of trouble, its not worth participating in.
Yes, join Russia to become Greek oblast. No need to worry about slavery, because they will not have a luxury of worrying.
Anyone remember the movie, "Z"?
Can-kicking imminent.
11% VAT TAX on Medicine FOod and hotels?
lol
I am sending boxes full of Ant Traps, Roach Kill Spray, Band-aids, Anti-Biotics, Tooth Paste , soap, and other house hold supplies to family in Greece because their Super Markets dont have any in stock . . . . the shelves are empty, the only thing on Greek Market shelves is bread cheese milk.
Medicine? most of the pharmacies have closed shop.
vat tax is one of the the biggest scams on earth.
The Euro has decimated all the southern countries of Europe, because while the North PRINTS and enjoys prosperity, the SOUTH BORROWS AND LIVES IN POVERTY.
GERMANY NEEDS THE SOUTH TO STAY IN THE EURO SO THEY CAN CONTINUE TO ROB THEM AND SELL OFF THEIR NATION PIECE BY PIECE TO THE HIGHEST BIDDERS.
The treatment of Greece by Germany resembles the treatment of Greece by the Nazis in WWII minus the guns (for the time being). Greece at that time lost a greater peercentage of its population than any other nation and had its infrastructure totally destroyed.
Germany would like to forget and brush over its war crimes but history is not yet dead.
Oh boy ...
I got an idea, lets punish a group of people for what their forefathers did.
-- Some idiot Frenchman ca., 1918
If the Germans don't like to deal with this outstanding issue the civilized way then I am sure that karma will take care of it in ways that time will show.
But to answer your point in another way, "why were the Jewish people compensated?"
Boric (Boric acid?) and peanut butter mix into paste recipe is best roach kill...
they carry back to nest..total kill...
Look online see exact how to set it out. Might have to pick up/remove dead for awhile, then peace..
Sprays kill more your family than roach family over long term..
There is no peanut butter left in Crete.
Pretty much nothing left but whats produced locally.
Its done, there is no economy in Greece, everyone is just sitting around waiting for the default, but the Greek Govt wants shit to keep rolling the way its been rolling so that govt employees can borrow from the ECB and cut themselves huge checks, it has nothing to do with the country, the country is gone.... THERE IS NO GREEK GOVT, the current govt is defacto/null its just a sham being operated by a few govt officials with the intention of defrauding everyone.
Its like 90 people sitting in an office pretending to be the Greek govt lol. . . its all a scam like one of those Nigerian things. . . but instead of "nigerian prince" its "Greek President/Primeminister w.e"
Don't laugh my prediction off when I say that this whole fiasco along with the sanctions on Russia and the war compensation claims of Greece against Germany might be the beginning of Germany's "bankruptcy" particularly if Spain and Portugal follow suit.
It is far easier to have an unravelling than it is to put things back together again.
Pension cuts and VAT hikes. That should really jump start the Greek economy! And all the money to pay off the debt is going to come from where?
Super bestest plan ever!
Fail already!
This is a boring passion play.
Like watching the grass grow.
Thats the price of joining NATO & EU :
Bankruptcy.
Slavery
Prostitution
Homosexuality
& finally
HELL
Its almost biblical, one would be apt to call the Entire Euro System the prophetic Whore of Babylon from Revelations.
Sounds like the Entire EU to me.
Hahahaha Business is always about Intelligence & Psy-Ops.
It's a competition. There will be Winners and Losers.
Most bankers seem to play these out like the will win through Bluffing, Being Positional, Adamant, and Getting Angry. Then they bring in a "Good Cop/Friend" who eventually holds the power and he asks the "Vic" to give in (be a loser).
This 24 hour thing is for appearance only. The default is already in the works. Greece is the equivalent to LEH x 100 and DB is something like AIG in this scenario. DB will be seized and it will bring very messy court battles and legislation.
At the end of the day though, it needs to happen.
Rather the terrible ending than a neverending trauma.
What's happened to Wolferl? Have they found themselves a new record?
what was all this baloney about Tspirass coming in and showing Schaeuble and Draghi the door. Look at the iceland stats. The IMF has already packed their bags, the resta are halfway out the door. Go for it! You think that kissing their shriveled asses (Merkel excluded) will get your pensions paid? Theirs maybe , not Greeces'.
A couple of lean years of fat white tourists sucking down ouzo on the islands convertin Teuros and dollahs to cheap drachmas and you guys will be ready to reinvent democracy again.
Remember the Spartan 300! Kick some ass! Quit cowering like kicked dogs! Stop buying into their global Ponzi scheme! Show that there is life after death!
Leave the damn EU already!
Greece is a mess,true,but I think it is Spain they are terrified of.Remember a year back when they passing the hat for the ECB,and Finland pipes up with,"Yes,count us in but we want to see some assets as collateral!".
Then EVERYONE SAYS,"YES WE WANT COLLATERAL TOO!". Whats that legal term? Parra Passu? Amongst equals?
SPAIN IS THE TEN TON ELEPHANT IN THE COFFEE SHOP THAT NOBODY WANTS TO TALK ABOUT.
Somebody above said that Brussels should be nuked.I don't know about that,but all the Bureaucrats shafting Eastern European hookers and doing f***all work,THAT'S A GOOD USE OF TAXPPAYERS MONEY?
Look,nobody has mentioned that the reason this shitstorm happened is because of all the moneyprinting going on.Low interest rates are an indicator of RISK.If they allowed free markets to operate,these BOND AUCTIONS would be failing.Moodys and S&P needed to pull their heads out of their asses about ten years ago.
This is all about the risk of sovereign default and the insurance cost to hedge the Bonds.
Oh,and Putin is laughing his slavic testicles off at the West.Payback for Afghanistan....
and in 24 hours everything will change?
Just compare IMF treatment of Greece and Ukraine which already announced partial default and still IMF gave them money against IMF regulations.
EU/EURO is a house of cards all cards are needed otherwise it collapses so they will do what needs to be done including physical intimidation and murder to get it. The lie of perceived intransigence of Syriza with give justification for all our war on Greek left.
With all that, threats looming Syriza so far did nothing but prolonged misery of their people and paid banksters.
The last five months Syriza acted as a controlled opposition steered from Soros headquarters and Broookings institution under quiet acceptance of ECB playing the game.
The facts.
1. Government has no control over third biggest Army in EU, biggest Army per capita, no military cuts whatsoever, they even buying useless shit from US as we speak.
2. Government has no control over police, no cuts in pay or benefits no prosecution of rampant civil right violations by police against leftist parties and groups.
3. Government has no control over prosecutors and judges, only ONE investigation, related to theft of national treasure, of people connected to oligarchs and foreign banks was open while Syriza members made over thousand requests for investigations.
4. Government has no control over banks. It’s obvious because of ECB but Syriza members requested thousands of reports on banking activities or requests to stop oligarch from repatriating their stolen wealth abroad, no response.
5. Government has stolen retirement money and practically reneg on immediate election promises regarding increase of employment, while paying off so far troika gangsters against their own stated policies and election promises.
6. Government did not nationalized state assets sold to foreign investors for peanuts as declared in their own stated policies that obtained parliament vote of confidence.
7. Government did not use Russia lebe=verage in NATO context and did not worm up frozen relationship with Turkey as extremely strong bargaining chip in current geopolitical situation potentially weakening of NATO southern flank.
The Syriza violated their own manifesto hundreds of times during last 5 month proving that it is a fake political entity negotiating cash deal for their own leaders while collapsing their own country.
It’s pure political theater for “benefit” of raped Greek peasants.
As I said before on ZH no Greek blood on the street no revolution against EU totalitarianism disguised as brotherly love.
Greece is bankrupt for over 7 years at least and EU denial of this broadly known fact in a sign of collective psychopathology of calcified or rather mummified EU bureaucrats and banksters.
Their minds are so full of imperial rot that they surpassed in their denial and absurdity even Byzantine empire, where dead emperor body sit on his throne for nine months, conducting audiences to foreign dignitaries, including dining and conversation, in atmosphere of friendship and awful stench of decomposing human flesh, before his death was officially acknowledged.
EU asylum is run by murderous mental patients in need of revolutionary treatment of shortening heads namely sane people revolution.
The euro is an artificial creation of European aristocrats and European bankers designed to allow destruction of social support systems in Europe by allowing free flow of speculative capital with no losses due to currency fluctuation associated with massive concentrated capital flight or inflow into relatively small individual economies. It kills any ability of individual governments to conduct any social policy without facing capital flight or also damaging uncontrolled inflows.
Euro is backed by political extremism of Brussels and radicals from ECB. Euro is not even backed by good faith of individual governments. Brussels, ECB engaged in illusory fake job of central banking like the ones in France faked for unemployed so they don’t riot. Euro serves to confuse and rob blind population atomized and separated by “their money” imprisoned and alone inside fantasy asset bubbles priced in euro.
The money in general is a creation of ruling elites in order to negotiate as many human relationships as it is possible. Money as it is designed and used now severely interfere with human attitudes and moral values within family and community through propaganda of flat currency as supposedly a holder of values of our humanity in monetary units, which is not.
That why philosophers hate charities or charitable foundations, government or private that solicit financial instruments instead labor or other material or spiritual support in not the sense of organized religion but rather reaffirmation of human dignity and innate value of human being.
Especially that those charities are morally supporting those who often cause social collapse and desolation such as the case of Darfur several years ago where Gates/Buffet foundation gave at least ten times money to perpetrators of atrocities than to victims (LA Times).
An honest and interesting discussion on origin of money within human society and its derivative namely financial system and its “products” can be found at:
https://contrarianopinion.wordpress.com/2015/04/14/plutus-and-the-myth-o...
Bravo scatha !!!
+350 billion
You can see what it says when it becomes law. Isn't that something that only a fascist state would do?
All right, come out with your hands up, two cups of coffee, an auto freshener that says "Capricorn", and something with coconut on it.
Greece, blow up the Uruppean shithouse already and send the BrUSsel$ pedophile politburo in NATO town packing to psychopath in "chief" in Washing town.
10% increase in electricity taxes alone raises prices on everyone. Add then all the other tax raises these fucking nazis want, and more cuts to pensions which have become burden thanks to economy death spiral. When people lose their job at 55 in a depression where the fuck are they supposed to go? They enter early retirement because 300 euro/month is better than nothing.
Just pivot to Russia/China already for chrissakes and FUCK THE EU. In fact stay in the EU and veto the Russia sanctions that will be good for a laugh.
Oh yes please Greeks, veto the Russian sanctions, the German industry will love you for that.
Greece has to get its people paying taxes that they owe.
This has been the main problem for centuries.
What is the difference between not " paying tax" and " collecting a government check"???
At this stage, my moral compass is spinning. Why pay tax, when all the tax in the world won't even get close? Why pay, when so many high and low, are collecting?
Debt jubilee.
Start over.
New game of Monopoly. Clear the board, and start over. I'm not playing when other players get handed purple cash under the table.
I don't know right from wrong anymore.
24 hours to comply ... That's what happens you are in debt to someone.... You are handcuffed. Stupid consumers don't really see what they getting themselves into. On top of that stupid insolvent western governments, keep imposing the image of "moral highground". I say moral highground my arse. How can you do anything in moral highground if you are under control be debts. Your creditors ask you to lick the ground and you have to.
How can Greece default better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of its fathers, in the temples of its Gods.
So, it becomes clear. This is all about Germany conquering Europe, degrading the other countries through austerity and enslaving them. Arrogant Germans believe they have the right to rule Greece.
I am guessing that the heavy hand of Herr Schaeubel has not gone unnoticed... and what GERMANY threatens to do to Greece as a means of punishment for trying to live free of German tyranny.
Fiat has no real value. How can something that can be made out of thin air and has no real value be used as a weapon to conquer and enslave entire countries? ... as GERMANY has done to Greece.
this was clear from the beginning: greeks keeping on calling for help, germans keeping on asking what are they thinking...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR0lWICH3rY
It is clear that the Germans are prepared to destroy Greece in order to keep the EU experiment going. Other southern countries plus France beware, you may be next.
Seeing as China now tells the IMF what to do, I think it would be a good idea for China and Russia combined to advise Greece to exit and then to support them through the transition to full sovereignty with their own interim currency until they are ready to return to the drachma.
The EU like the rest of the Western world is run by fascists determined to impose serfdom on the peoples of the EU. Greece with the right support could become a beacon for those countries in the same boat.
"EU official didn’t specifically say what would happen to Greece if there was no plan presented tomorrow."
To threat someone with an ultimatum without specifying the punishment for not complying equals to not to threat someone. What a joke.
The punishment is no new deal, no new funds for the Greeks and then Grexit. Just pay attention a little.
How is that a punishment ? Greece is going to be better off out of the Eurozone.
EU official didn’t specifically say what would happen to Greece if there was no plan presented tomorrow... Same shit, different day.
Agreed completely.
The endless stream of Greece-related sky-is-falling stories used to seem compelling. But now all I do is y a w n .
"You have 24 hours to sign or you will be nuked".
ps.
"Just waiting for the right wind direction".
Oh good Jesus, you Greeks haven't exited the EU yet? Fking leave or be their slaves but stop boring the fk out of us.
You obviously have problems making decisions, here I will do it for you: leave you stupid fks! It like two convicts trying to decide whether to make a run for it out of prison doing life. Grow some balls.
Are the Germans aiming to become the market leader in concrete?
all Greeks need is love.
As FOCUS is reporting today Jean-Claude Juncker explained in an interview that Germany is not in the top list of the hardest negotiators.
He is pointing now with his finger to the next naughty boys Netherlands, Finland and Austria and explains, that these countries are demanding "much more" concessions from Athen.
Sounds like Merkel already surrendered to Mr. Varoufakis and it suggest, that Juncker - precautionary awarded by the Greek government with the highest Greek hounour "savior of the Greek people" (...not Greek pensioners nor tax defrauders...) in June 2013 - is on promotion tour to give in to the Greek blackmail. He seemees very impatient to hand over the next European treasure chest.
within 24 hours there will be an announcement that all is good, followed by another one that greece is defaulting again. At this point who gives a shit other than bankers.
Yeah. Who gives a shit about the Credit Default Swaps and the Derivatives Market?
Let the whole God damned system implode.
Yeah. Right.
Did you know that your currency is a DERIVATIVE? Yeah. It is a NOTE. It is a PROMISE TO PAY future goods and services.
But you do not need any of that so do you let a Derivatives Market collapse concern you?
Hell no. Not you, right?
Sticking your head in the sand with your bare naked ass exposed with a large sign that states, "KICK THIS ASS THEN BUTTFUCK IT WHILE YOU ARE AT IT...WITHOUT K-Y", is more your style, right?
Yeah. Who cares?
Let the whole God damned system implode.
at least I have prepped with Water, Food, Lead Bullets, Silver and Gold for that eventuality. Do not clue him in. He deserves it.
"This time we mean it, Buster!"
-EU
Prepare to be Zionized.
This sounds like the Banksters are preparing for an offer to Greece they can't refuse. This is what happens when you sell your soul to the devil.
Listen & watch Mr. Panos' wisdom ...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvl9N9GdraQ
"The German government is holding "concrete consultations" on what to do in the case of a bankruptcy of the Greek state, German newspaper Bild said, citing several people familiar with the matter.
This includes discussions about introducing capital controls in Greece if the crisis-stricken country goes bankrupt, Bild said in an advance copy of an article due to be published on Friday."
I really, really don't get this.
Wasn't it recently decided that economic or digital attacks on another country are seen as an act of war.
Both NATO members.
Can Germany legally impose capital controls on another country? I don't get it either...
I was wondering the same thing. In the case of Grexit, the EU can impose capital controls on all Greek use of Euros that are on the books of EU banks, and they can stop Greeks carrying cash into or out of the EU, but the EU can't stop Greeks from flying to Canada or Switzerland with a suitcase full of Euros.
While we are presented with polls suggesting that a majority of Greeks want to stay in the EU, the truth can be found in ongoing bank runs. Don't beleive western propaganda. IMF have been rendered worthless. The Unelected EU dictators are terrified of losing the well paid jobs and the dream of enslaving all of europe with a printing press. Tsipras wll bring it all down.