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Poll Finds Majority Of Greeks Ready To Fold To Troika, Even As Anti-Austerity Protests Return
Wednesday began with decisively downbeat rumblings out of Germany as lawmakers from Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic bloc as well as MPs from the Social Democrats (Merkel’s junior coalition partner) continued to signal they are inclined to agree with FinMin Wolfgang Schaeuble when it comes to how far Germany should be willing to go to keep Greece in the currency bloc.
German pessimism abruptly turned to optimism midday, when reports suggested Germany could back a kind of a la carte, cash for one-off reforms program that would, as suggested by Athens earlier this week, tap funds from EU bailout vehicles. Berlin talked that rumor back a few hours later, and the day ended with a meeting between Tsipras, French President Francois Hollande, and Merkel at which Greece agreed to step up the “severity” of the talks.
So far, Thursday has brought more bad news from the Greek economy (which is back in a recession and which, as noted yesterday, is hemorrhaging jobs and businesses) with the unemployment rate jumping to 26.6% in Q1. Nearly three-quarters of unemployed Greeks have been jobless for 12 months or more.
The economic squeeze may be taking its toll on the country’s collective willingness to support the ongoing rift with creditors. A new poll shows that 50.2% of Greeks think Athens should accept the troika’s proposal “if they insist on it”, compared to only 37% who now favor a “rupture.” Here’s more from Bloomberg:
No. of people who are satisfied with govt’s handling of talks with creditors fell to 45.4% from 50.5% in similar poll on April 29; those dissatisfied rose to 53.4%% from 48.2%.
Governing Syriza party gets 34.2% of voting intentions if elections were held now vs 19.6% for main opposition New Democracy party.
77.4% say they want Greece to stay in the euro, compared with 16% favoring a return to the drachma.
Clearly, the more public support there is for making concessions in exchange for a deal, the better Tsipras’ bargaining position when it comes to negotiating with Syriza hardliners and passing a troika-written draft through parliament. Here's more on what accepting the troika's demands would entail (via The Guardian):
Speaking to state-run TV’s newly relaunched channel, ERT, economy minister Giorgos Stathakis gave a glimpse of what Athens’ new agreement with creditors will entail for Greeks. The deal, he said, would give the green light to privatisations (once a red rag for the leftists) and emergency levies on mid-income salaries.
Publicly-owned assets put up for sale would range from the port of Piraeus to the railway network, TrainOSE and regional airports nationwide. An almost watertight blackout by negotiators on the workings of what in effect is expected to be a new financial lifeline for Greece, has spawned widespread speculation but little in the way of specifics.
The measures will mean prime minister Alexis Tsipras rolling back on seminal pre-election pledges. The leader is counting on his unrivalled popularity ratings and widespread support for his Syriza party to carry him through.
Speaking of hardliners, members of the Communist-affiliated PAME union are staging demonstrations and protests today in Athens.The banner shown below depicts Tsipras alongside his two predecessors with the phrase “We have bled enough, we have paid enough.”
So while a slim majority of Greeks have now accepted the reality that remaining in the euro will likely mean accepting a deal that strips the government of its anti-austerity campaign mandate, the fact that Tsipras is even discussing pensions, VAT, and tougher fiscal targets with creditors is, for some, evidence that he is no different than the technocrats that came before him.
In terms of looming payments, Greece of course owes the IMF €1.5 billion at the end of the month, but the focus seems to have shifted to a €3.5 billion bond held by the ECB and due on July 20.
Apparently the market assumes the IMF will exercise its discretion and make use of a 30-day grace period before officially declaring Greece in default should Athens miss the June 30 payment, while a default to the ECB could create an immediate (not to mention acute) liquidity crisis as the bank is effectively keeping the doors open at Greek banks by habitually raising the ELA ceiling and keeping haircuts on Greek collateral unchanged. Here’s FT:
Officials are hoping to reach an agreement by next week’s meeting of eurozone finance ministers to ensure the €7.2bn tranche can be disbursed before a €3.5bn Greek government bond comes due on July 20.
Eurozone officials believe it will take a month for Greece to legislate and implement the reform programme, and a default on the July 20 bond, held by the European Central Bank, could spark financial chaos in the country, officials believe.
Although Greece’s current bailout ends at the end of the month, a deal reached by next week could include a programme extension so that bailout tranches could be paid into July.
As the leaders were meeting, Standard & Poor’s downgraded Greece’s debt, saying that Athens’ decision to delay a €300m loan repayment to the IMF last week was a sign that “the Greek government is prioritising pension and other domestic spending over its scheduled debt service obligations”.
S&P said that the current stand-off had undermined Greece’s economy so severely that any agreement with bailout creditors was likely to include assumptions that would be too optimistic.
“Even if an agreement with official creditors were to be reached over the next fortnight, we do not expect that such an agreement would cover Greece’s debt service requirements beyond September,” S&P wrote (ZH: see here for more on what the future looks like in terms of Greece's debt burden)
The Greek government has attempted to win further concessions this week by submitting a new counterproposal to Pierre Moscovici, the European Commission’s economic chief. But a commission spokesman said on Wednesday that Mr Moscovici had told Greek ministers that their effort was insufficient.
According to EU officials, Jean-Claude Juncker, the commission president who presented the compromise plan to Mr Tsipras last week, believed he had an agreement on budget surplus targets. He was awaiting a Greek plan on how to reach those targets which would have taken into account Athens’ resistance to cutting pensions and raising taxes on energy.
Instead, Greek negotiators submitted new budget targets but did not include any new plans on how to make up shortfalls in the pension system or find new ways to make up for revenues lost without an energy tax increase. A Greek government spokesman hinted that Athens was prepared to accept the creditors’ surplus for 2015, but did not comment on how savings would be achieved
For his part, FinMin Yanis Varoufakis has denied that Greece has agreed to a budget surplus target of 1% proposed by creditors, telling parliament that Athens can’t and won’t agree to such an aggressive goal.
Finally, Tsipras is set to meet with Jean-Claude Juncker today.
The European Commission President reportedly refused Tsipras’ phone call last weekend after the PM’s impassioned speech to parliament sent the wrong message to creditors who, earlier in the week, handed Tsipras a draft proposal that apparently would have closed the deal had Athens accepted. It's not clear what the expectations are for today's meeting but for anyone who is adept at deciphering Junckerisms, we'll leave you with the following quote:
"When a cow is on the ice you have to push it off."
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Hmmm. A Eurostat poll. I wonder how independent they are.
I agree. Here in the US we had a recent poll which stated the majority of Americans are OK with illegal immigrants staying. Along with this poll I call "bullshit".
Less people speak up when the "majority" are reportedly for something. Another manipulation.
Americans are OK with illegal immigrants staying.
Who doesn't want to live in a third world banana republic?
Banana Zippy Pants ?
Off Topic: Where is John Kerry?
I think he died, didnt he? Jim Willie says he is on deaths doorstep. The photo of him in the hospital bed is a fake.
He's not dead. They're fixing the mechanical bits, then they'll reload his OS, restore his files from the last backup and he'll be good as new. He'll just think it's 2012 when he wakes up.
Throw those pathetic Greek dead beats out of Europe already.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Docs are still working on him in Boston. Threy are rebuilding him. Better, faster, stronger. They've already spent more on his broken leg than it cost to turn Steve Austin into the Six Million Dollar Man.
A mechanical Mr. Ed might be an improvement over the existing one.
Stay with the programming better and more personality.
Greece has no economy left. That's the real problem.
Some ag, tourism in the summer, and a massively bloated government sector.
The whole world has similar problems.
2/3 of the people work for the government.
The country cannot even buy medicine anymore.
And the US is doing everything it can to copy that failed model to a T.
Both polls were funded by Goldman. The Greek one polled Syrian boat people, and the American one polled people crosiing the Rio Grande.
Headline: GREEK 'LOVE'
...thank you sir may i have another
Anti-Austerity
OK fine....so who are you going to steal it from? Cause that's what you're saying.
Grow up ZH.
Poll Question: Would you prefer to stay in the euro or return to the drachma?
Answer: the euro of course
Result: 77.4% say they want Greece to stay in the euro, compared with 16% favoring a return to the drachma.
Poll Question:Would you prefer to stay in the euro if your country was ruled from Brussels and Berlin and you lost your national independence or would you prefer a return to the drachma?
Answer: the drachma of course
Result : 22.6 say they want Greece to stay in the euro, compared with 75% favoring a return to the drachma.
Polls can be scewed any way the pollster wants. They are in Greece as they are here. Grow up !!!
Fine....are you going to fund it?
You bet they can. That's what a national currency means.
Will Germany fund the 315 billion defaulted on? How about the 50-70 billion euro in Target2 imbalances a Greek default would cause?
If yes, how?
What?
That's what I thought.
The ECB returns Greece's portion of reserves to the NCB of Greece...and that's it. Everyone's (NCBs and ECB) balance sheet is good. There is no point chasing down phantom money in Target2, that would only impair the ECB. Greece would continue to pay whatever puny interest on Target2 there is, and that's it. Greece as the rest of Europe will still be using Target2 system.
Enslaved by someone else's debt fiat. Beautiful. There's a story for all of us to chew on within this Greek farce.
All these polls are meant to shape opinion, not reflect opinion.
Slaves gonna slave. Good doggies.
Cows on Ice.
A Moo-ving extravaganza with thrills for the whole family. See death defying leaps over repayment schedules and escapes from tight places.
Coming to a Euro-arena soon.
Don't miss the best show of 2015.
COWS ON ICE.
Long Greek trannies, and bring out the Astroglide.
A new pole? I always assumed it would be they same one they are going to get shoved up their asses.
Just another pump and dump article. Jeezzz.
The Greeks aren't stupid. They know any benefits from a return of the drachma will be short lived.
And the peak tourist season approaches. Far better to make your profits in EUR.
The private sector tourist season .... Socialists are year round !
"Greece will be saved!" (tm)
"BARRY MINNKOW! FIGHTER OF THE WAR ON TERROR!
GO HYMIE TOWN GO!"
Obey and serve.
Jean Claude Juncker .... Hirohito O'toole .... Juan Williams !
what is that phase I am thinking of....... oh yeah "Like a Bitch"
Now that the populace has finally been broken - beat them, stomp on them, never let them get back up.
Please god, make it stop!
You reminded me of the fellow who once said, "stop the world. I want to get off!
The reality is thàt it cannot stop. It can only explode.
Old but informative with respect to surveys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA
Who cares what people vote. What matters is what they can bear.
Greece is like a woman who would rather stay with her husband who beats, cheats and exploits her rather than go out on her own and be free. It's a sad commentary of the lack of creative thinking going on in the country.
Didn't Lenin say "two steps forward, one step back?" It works like a charm. Raise the price 100% and the people scream for relief. So they lower the increase 20% and the public says "Thank you very much!" The people got an 80% increase and they are grateful for it. The psychology has changed - not for everyone, but for many - from resistance to acceptance.
“the Greek government is prioritising pension and other domestic spending over its scheduled debt service obligations”.
If they were prioritizing debt service obligations over domestic spending, wouldn't grandma be thrown out of her house & the kids go hungry?
fucking faggots. Good luck with your eternal slavery.
77.4% say they want Greece to stay in the euro, compared with 16% favoring a return to the drachma.
Big fucking deal. They found 17 railroad retirees in Patras who are without children and are over 73 years old and SURPRISE, SURPRISE 13 said to stay in the Euro.
'People voted, but now they definitely want the opposite from a poll'....hey whatever. Anyone thinking they actually have a choice with a vote is just delusional in the first place.
Of course Tsipras was always going to deal. Like Obama, he wanted power, not change, and power comes from the Germans and banksters.
Any serious attempt at defiance would end in his being overthrown and killed or driven into exile by NATO, his own army, or an alliance thereof.
He may be rewarded for selling his country by being overthrown anyway.
Makes sense.
Because everybody wants to be Captain of an airliner that has no more fuel over the middle of the Mediterranean.
But at least, unlike the passengers, you get to pick how you enter the water.
The problem is that the nose always goes in first.
I'm thinking perhaps Tsipras was unduly confident that he understood the job description.
Vigilante justice is the only hope
I don't believe any of these polls any more than I believe what they tell me in the MSM. These polls are all adjusted to fit the official narrative.
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
Mark Twain
In the future, kids at school will laugh their asses off when they learn about this pathetic show executed by countries which supposedly belonged to the first world.
Greek reform dance - zero steps forward, two steps back... (then repeat)
Greek Government restores Pensions back to 2012 levels -
Ruling on pension cuts will cost Greece 1 to 1.5 bln euros. (Thursday June 11, 2015)
The Greek government will have to find 1 to 1.5 billion euros to cover the cost of a Council of State decision published on Wednesday,
which calls for pensioners in the private sector and at state-owned corporations (DEKOs) to have their retirement pay restored to 2012 levels.
In a majority decision (14 vs 11), Greece’s highest administrative court judged the reduction to main and supplementary pensions legislated in late 2012 as being unconstitutional. The ruling affects some 800,000 pensioners who earned more than 1,000 euros a month.
It is estimated the decision will lead to pensions between 1,000 and 1,500 euros rising by 5 percent, those between 1,500 and 2,000 increasing by 10 percent and those over 2,000 seeing a rise of 15 percent. The court said the government should have carried out a study on the impact these cuts would have had on the pensioners affected.
The Council of State, however, decided that pensions should not be restored retroactively apart from some 2,000 individual cases where pensioners appealed the reductions on their own. This means that, apart from the latter cases, the government will have to find a way to increase the pensions in question from this point on rather than find the funds to cover the income the pensioners lost as a results of the cuts over the last 2.5 years.
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_10/06/2015_550910
In 2012, Greece spent more relative to GDP on pensions than any other EU nation.
The 17.5 percent of GDP it spent compared with the EU average of 13.2 percent, according to the most recent Eurostat figures.
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite2_1_11/06/2015_550942
I hear they print poll results like they print money these days. Poll=the new shaft. It's like a rigged election, only cheaper and quicker.
Contrary to the fantasy around here that they were somehow going to go it alone.... The Greeks were ALWAYS going to fold. THEY DON'T WANT TO LEAVE THE EU. It's that simple. Defaulting would require some real discipline, which the Greeks obviously don't have.
Fuck the Greeks. Willing slaves. They deserve whatever they have coming their way. Sick of these non-stories
They have failed themselves and to their country. Much like my fellow Americans who just don't realize it yet.
so the farce comes full circle when Greece votes to renew sanctions against Russia at the end of the month.
Why don't they just ask the Turks to return?
Pay your mother fucking bills Greece or accept the consequences of your socialist shit hole country.
You know nothing..., obviously.
If the Greeks were going to DO anything they already would have.. like a bunch of brain dead sheep . same as we are . they thought an election would change things. how stupid is that . hope they enjoy permanent debt slavery .. perhaps the Meditterean temperment enjoys slavery .. .. but than so do we .. otherwise we would have already USED the second amendement on the masters in DC.. London and Wall Street ..
I couldn't agree more. To set a baseline the Greeks need to invite the Troika for a serious meeting, call their names, gun them down and proceed from there. But for God's sake stop giving them money. Ok, I left out some detalis. Just remember that a self imposed survival plan should be ready by the planting season.
I couldn't agree more. To set a baseling the Greeks need to invite the Troika for a serious meeting, call their names, gun them down and proceed from there. But for God's sake stop giving them money. Ok, I left out some detalis. Just remember that a self imposed survival plan should be ready by the planting season.
Greece: Sheep and sheeple.
Fleeced and fleeced. Mutton and mutton.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission..
Reminds me of my career in healthcare. There were some patients with horrible sicknesses who should have been dead 15 years ago, who just kept on living beyond expectation. Until they didn't.
Let me get this straight. Greece takes on odious debt on the advice of Goldman Sachs, It's too much to pay back. So the Troika steps in and loans Greece money to pay back the banks. The money they give does not go to Greece's economy but straight to the banks, leaving Greece in even deeper debt and having to institute an austerity program that will result in the sell-off of Greek assets at pennies on the dollar to big corporate investors and banks in order to pay off some of that generous debt. They still can't pay it back, so more money is requested and the taxpayers of several countries find themselves paying money through the Troika to loan Greece even more money that again goes to the banks. The countries contributing all this money (Germany, USA, etc) are themselves being burdoned with this debt and will need to borrow from...well....the banks. And the banks simply create all that money from...well...nothing.
In the end you have all these countries sniping at each other, threatening global war, whilst the banks are.... well...happy.