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"Last Chance" Greek Bailout Talks End Without Deal
The writing was already on the wall after several EU officials expressed reservations about the feasibility of striking any sort of compromise with Greece’s negotiating team in Brussels on Sunday, and now it’s official. Talks have once again ended with no deal as the Greeks are standing their ground on pension cuts and VAT hikes.
#BREAKING Greece bailout talks end with no deal, 'significant gaps' remain : EU
— Agence France-Presse (@AFP) June 14, 2015
More color from Bloomberg:
Greek govt delegation in Brussels bearing proposals that can bridge gap between country, its creditors on fiscal, financing matters, Greek govt official says in e-mailed statement, asking not to be named in line with policy.
Greek govt will not accept cuts to pensions, VAT increases on basic needs goods like electricity.
IMF insisting on annual pension cuts of EU1.8b, or 1% of GDP; another EU1.8b of increased VAT revenue: govt official.
What this means is that Greece came to Brussels and presented the same "not serious" proposals Tsipras submitted last week. That is, Athens is willing to deal on fiscal targets and is more than willing to accept free money from the EFSF and ESM (which would be used to pay the ECB on July 20) but is not yet desperate enough to concede to pension cuts or VAT hikes. That means there will be no deal for now and all eyes will turn to a scheduled meeting of EU finance ministers on Thursday.
As we noted earlier today (and on countless occasions previously), 'deadlines' and 'ultimatums' are largely meaningless because even if Greece misses its June 30 bundled payment to the IMF, Christine Lagarde would need to send a formal failure to pay letter to the Executive Board. Only then would Greece actually be in default. It’s up to Lagarde to decide when to send that letter and she would have at least 30 days. The set up for EFSF loans is similar, and besides, it seems exceptionally unlikely that either EU creditors or the IMF would put Greece into formal default while a deal is working its way through the Greek parliament, meaning all Tsipras really needs to do is get something on paper that has a chance of flying with Syriza hardliners and get it to the floor before July 20, when a payment to the ECB comes due.
In other words: expect more contradictory headlines and more 'ultimatums' next week as this charade continues into its sixth month.
A sampling of headlines:
- EU: `THERE REMAINS A SIGNIFICANT GAP' BETWEEN PARTIES
- EU: GAP BETWEEN PARTIES `IN THE ORDER' OF 0.5%-1% OF GDP
- EU: GAP BETWEEN PARTIES IS ABOUT 2B EUROS ON ANNUAL BASIS
- EU: GREECE PROPOSALS REMAIN `INCOMPLETE'
- JUNCKER'S `LAST ATTEMPT' TO SEEK ACCORD MADE `SOME PROGRESS'
- EU: FURTHER GREECE DISCUSSION WILL NOW MOVE TO EUROGROUP
- EUROPEAN COMMISSION GIVES DETAILS IN TEXT MESSAGE
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Great news! New all time highs in SPX are assured on Monday! Stay clear of gold and other safe havens...
Throw those pathetic Greek dead beats out of Europe already.
And when you're done with those pesky Greeks, prepare the Portuguese next, and then the Spaniards, and the Italians, and the East Europeans, AND (the cherry on the cake) THE FRENCH !
You don't need to worry about Brits, though; they'll leave on their own...
Greece defaults on debt because of gov travel expenses to meetings.
I should have become a caterer.
Only they are making out in this farce.
Long Foie gras futures.
Mind the Gap
Wait.
Everything stops.
This makes no sense. The EU/EMZ/Goldman/Bilderbergers would not let the whole world burn to the ground over a few hundred billion. The ECB prints as much in 5 months.
The means one of two things;
1) It really is contained. They've tracked down all CDS and have back stopped them. They have processes in place for the world to deal with this and keep going.
2) Those who run the world want a collapse, and would to usher it in on their own terms for their benefit.
Which of the two seem more logical to you guys?
Green for 1 Red for 2.
Shit! Again no Grexit this week?!?
I missed the Lehman thingie in '08, and being off work this week and I was looking forward to hitting F5 on my computer all day long and watching the world's financial system collapse on my computer screen.
Why does the EU keep trying to negotiate? It's OVER! Prepare for Derivitive blow out. Default has been chosen ... by the EU. I'm sure all your bets are perfectly hedged. LOL
Ah - maybe so but...
No CDS Allowed!
Sorry for the shameless Blog post, but I did promise people I would let them know when the day came...and I always keep my promises. http://twoshortplanksunplugged.blogspot.com.au/2015/06/second-company-es...
what's all the fuss? they could'a made "up to 2B euros or more" working part time in their mother's basement in Athens selling feta trading commissions over the phone in their pajamas (do greeks wear pajamas?), just like my sister's butcher's cousin's plumber's concubine's pimp's mother-in-law did. fer sure....
Long Windex
The Greeks are deadbeats. We should invade and sell them into slavery. So let it be written, so let it be done.
Sure, the Greeks are deadbeats. But which FUCKING IDIOTS lent them 360 Billion Euros in the first place?!?!? Oh wait, that must have been those other deadbeats, the ones from Deutsche Bank, ABN AMRO etcetera...
lol
Final Kabuki Theater performance?
I doubt it.
The show must go on!
Patience. They are only at last chance. Tomorrow is last last chance. Wake me up when they get to last last last last chance. At that stage it will only be about six ultimatims away.
When the screen goes blank you will know that TSHTF.
TSHTF ... rough rough rough.
WTFHTWB Rolls much more easily off the tongue, and it's Literary!
(When The Fæces Hit The Whirling Blades)
I thought that meant "What The Fuck Happened To World Banks?"
Silly me.
It is NOT that they WANT IT.
They cannot prevent it.
Douchebank's exposure to ENERGY, OIL, Derivatives have collapsed them. Their leveraged bets did not include a 60% Price Decline.
Greece is just an excuse.
Game...Set...Match...It is over.
That's what I keep getting stuck on. Greece owes $352.7 billion to foreign investors (total). They owe Germany $61.1 billion. The Masters of the EURO-verse are going nuclear option over this? I find it so confusing, I keep thinking I must be reading the numbers incorrectly.
Also, we must consider the fact that no Greek has ever worked long enough to complete their application form.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Which Eastern European nations are you referring to that use the Euro? And which Eastern European nations are in debt?
All of them are in debt (to various degrees), and the Baltics, Slovenia & Slovakia are already part of the Euro zone. However, ALL of them are required to join Euro in due time. Google is your friend...
The real issue is wheter Greece and, hopefully, portugal and all the others, will go to the Eurasian Union with or without German help. Either way that is the best options for them, and the Shcaueaeaieaeble dancing on the wheelchair is only a low quality kabuki.
Heads will roll, literally, beforePeace Prize lets Putin get his Vladivostock to Lisbon dream on his watch
Does this mean we will "once again" have another stock rally based on a possible, probably or potential Greek deal? Anyone counting how many fantasy stock rallies we've had so far? I'd wager we're around 200 if you count them all up over the past 4 to 5 years.
The entire point of the EU was to mimic the US in a new way. Germans will have to pay for a EU or they can fall into permenent deflation. See Japan.
Thats what the EU is, a way to stop Japan like deflation in europe. Now that its come time to pay the piper Germany wants to balk.
Ok good balk and throw this project into the history books of things to never do again.
Germanys politicans are getting thrown out of office anyway, wether they agree to pay Greece or not. Either way its over for them. As was known from day one.
The German voter never had a choice and never will by the ballot box.
@ BBQ; "The German voter never had and never will have a choice..."
Change that to human voter and you have my applause.
One could say that Wolferl feels emBOLDened by this news.
Throw the fucking Germans out of the EU .....if it wasnt for their hard-assed , rigid, dogmatic, know it all attitude , then the rest of the EU could relax and get on with enjoying life . As it is ,they are chained to the millstone of the german export machine with no hope of matching that performance. .....and for good measure, hang the idiots who came up with the entire original concept.
Dummkopf
So every day I go out and put another $100 bll into the drunk homeless guy's pocket and pretend he's concious when I whisper "it's a loan". Then it's OK for me to be upset when one day instead I throw water in his face and say, "PAY ME!"
Wolferi...
You are amongst the most deserving to reap the rewards of what Douchebank has done to you.
Have you ever heard of a Red Herring argument?
Greece is not only a Red Herring but it is also a Strawman.
What Douchebank has NOT LET OUT is that they had one hell of a lot of Derivative exposure in the ENERGY MARKETS...the Oil Markets specifically.
And when the price of Oil COLLAPSED 60% Douchebank's highly leveraged Energy Derivative bets have become so far out of balance that it is IMPOSSIBLE to place them back into balance.
So they are setting Greece up as the Strawman to take the BLAME for the ENTIRE COLLAPSE of WESTERN BANKING.
And nothing will be farther from the truth.
You drink the Kool Aid.
You see. YOU ARE COOKED. The austerity and hell that you have wished upon them will be placed upon your own head by a factor of SEVEN.
Enjoy your hell. You deserve it.
LMAO. You are so fucked and do not even know it yet.
Watch the 18th: http://redefininggod.com/2015/06/information-about-the-june-18-scenario-...
Greek authorities are considering the Icelandic way, the Shitstorm option.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/11673989/Syriza-Left-demands-Icelandi...
You mean via Torches and Pitchforks?
I guess it just means they will do what ever it takes. Greeks can not let a bunch of muppets lay Greece to ruin .
It would be a terrible waste of a epic country and it would encourage the muppets in their destructive stupidity.
Great read. Thanks
Appropriate use of the image of Harold Lloyd from "Safety Last"
This is the worst soap opera ever..it is a bad drama and by bad I mean BORING. The world is done listening to it I think.
It's kind of hard to get a "negociated" solution when one party accepts only one outcome...
I agree. Let them default so that the story is over. Its plot has been repetitive for the past four years....boooooring.
They cannot do anything. All of the decision makers are still drinking bubbly and slurping Beluga in Telfs.
DO NOT DISTURB signs everywhere.
They are trying to create an alternative to the binary system with infinite bs to calculate.
Define "Last" b/c I am not sure what it means anymore
Last = a mannekin: as in a seamstresses last.
From the full Oxford dictionary.
"Last" means "most recently".
As in "We already discussed that issue last Wednesday".
Last as in this will last for a long long time.
What we really need to galvanise the Troika to concede, is a nice market collapse. Not a couple of hundred points, but 6-700 in a day.
Only then will they remember 'When you owe the bank £€$1000 it's your problem, but when you owe the bank £€$1.2bn, it's the banks problem.
Suck it up you fucks.
Default already!
Drachma's and sovereignty!
Your comments apply to a nation that wants to be "free".
Greece loves govt and handouts. Whoever is going to keep the cash flow coming is all they care about.
Well, there goes the $BDI.
and of course expect Gold and Silver phony paper prices to move parabolically to the upside on this...
and in other news...............
last try my ass
they meant to say last try before lunch..... I am surprised that the greeks are making their internal nut.
I would imagine the next straw will be if the europeans extend the liquidity. I imagine the burn is around 3 Billion a week so 6 weeks would be another 20B?
I cannot count the number of times in the past seven years Greece has been fixed and un-fixed.
Maybe as many as paper gold take downs.
"Fuck the E.U."
That seems to be the plot in this movie...
The capacity of our European friends for charade, avoidance of reality and infinite patience with nonsense is truly astonishing. How are investors, business partners, foreign banks, etc. supposed to take the EURO experiment seriously after observing this pathetic drama for six months already? It seems all it takes to bring the viability of the EURO into doubt is for some member country to elect a different crop of clowns into office who try to drive a hard bargain with Brussels by dangling the 'contagion' threat over their heads.
This whole farce has become disgusting.
It's nice to see though because it unmasks their true lack of ideas and options for all to see!
Pretty FUCKING obvious.
Greece is not willing to address the issues and continues to blame the EU for it's predicament.
All government salaries should be suspended (they will be anyways).
They swipped the pension money a few weeks ago. Then they swipped the money out of local government. Next up payrolls.
whatever.
Agreed, but would still like to watch if Douche Bank self-immolates.
Hehe, looks like that may happen.
Either that or a bunch of Bankster Suicides to cover the losses.
I vote for the latter.
"Last try"
Until the next try, and the next one after that, ad infinitum.
Way past the 9 lives.
Save!, next save, next save.
Oh, the theater...
Is the "last try" like a double dog dare? If not this is boring.
Even though the derivatives written for Greek bonds may be in the Trillions I'm betting that for less than the price of a QE3 the ECB could fix things for the banks that wrote them.
In the end the central banks will be giving out cash for all sorts of bad debt. If they don't the system will fold. They are not about to let the system fold....even though it will fold...it won't be allowed to do so without the appearances of a fight.
This is always the paln for the end of debt cycles. All players are playing their parts. So far no one has forgotten their lines.
As part of the american middle class I have not forgotten my one line in this shit show: "Fuck I'm broke".
The real hilarious part will be when others start blaming the EU/IMF/ECB for not negotiating "in earnest" when those CDS start being triggered.
WHEEEEEEEE!
Monday morning there will rumors of a deal and the Dow will rally 300 points.
Rumor will be denied Monday afternoon with no effect on the 'markets.'
Rinse and repeat.
Boring.
It's always a Eurocrat save the last minute of the last hour.
You know, why is Greece even talking to Merkel and Schauble? They are not the ECB. If you don't see the total disconnect here, you are missing the joke.
Because Germany matters. Greece ... not that much. Not at all, to be honest.
What's wrong with euros escaping Greece, if the government is planning to go back to the drachma and to nationalize the banks anyway? Maybe that's part of the plan. Greeks would then have a lot of euros to spend back in drachma-denominated Greece, automatically bringing in wealth. Clearly the goal of this left-wing government is not to save the banks. What's the problem with capital flight? Or am I missing something?
Hmm I said some unpleasant things about this Greek bunch, but they seem prepared to toe the line. Judging by the way they were lambasting Tsipras over at bloomberg the other day there must be some real concern he might run the gauntlet.
I mean the defaults are going to have to happen at some point. Once everything is in order I presume.
Aren't currency regimes great?
Felt the same way during TARP
Same way during Obamacare vote.
Same way I'm feeling now on Obamatrade
The Greeks need to hold-out till the currency resets their gold bullion reserves in valuation.
How long will that take? Who will print the New Drachmas? I could envision massive counterfeiting. Worker strikes and violence in the streets from unpaid public sector workers
Greece will become a barter economy. No one will put the new money in the bank because their old money was seized by same bank
There was a Greek citizen who posted yesterday that said that Tsipras was "anti Russian" in the set up that Greece will remain European at all costs. And Europe is at (soft) war with Russia
I see the likelihood of Tspiras standing firm about as likely as the Dems do in turning down Obamatrade
Slim to none
Beware army coup if he does stick to his guns
No way Peace Prize lets Russia outfox them as the west's economy implodes under his "watch"
I suspect that Greece will get 'Cyprussed' -- since the EU/IMF cannot get Tsipras to fold, they will get the Greek Central Bank to fold, similar to how they took over Cyprus without the Cypriot legislature voting. The Greek Central Bank will then 'cave' and impose capital controls, deposit confiscation, and all the other control tricks.
No way they let this pipsqueak start a derivatives Tsunami
Central Bankers will betray their fellow Greeks just as you have written
For fuck's sake, knock it off with the "last try", "last attempt", "last chance" rhetoric already.
Months! Freaking MONTHS of "last chance" meetings, complete with blaring headlines, EVERY FREAKING SECOND DAY!
They need all of these 'Last Chance' articles so the 'markets' can go up on every 'All is Fixed' rumor.
USD/EUR heading towards parity. Will put pressure on commodity prices. Wait till the Grexit + Iran nuclear agreement + no more ISIS in the media before calling a bottom in oil. WTI should see a 4-handle before it's all said and done.
Well....this could finally get interesting...Germany, the EU en total, the FED and every bank is expoused to Greek debt...if they flip them the bird....DB will fold before the NYSE open.....
In the words of Mr. Panos- Fuck You Malaka!!! He was right, Greece will bankrupt them all.....
So the end result is economies and economic systems bow down to the "gov't pensions"---Who would have thought? Socialism gets a cookie.
Gov'ts are obsolete.
EU: GAP BETWEEN PARTIES IS ABOUT 2B EUROS ON ANNUAL BASIS
28 Euros??
Silly mistake – should've read 280.
2 billion
>>>
EU: GAP BETWEEN PARTIES IS ABOUT 2B EUROS ON ANNUAL BASIS
<<<
Merkel will line up her taxpayers to pay that amount.
Merkel would line up her taxpayers to pay 10x that amount, to keep her United States of Europe dream alive...
Watson
Fuck em all - none of this shit matters anyways.
There've been so many writings on the wall lately, we're gonna need a new wall.
Tspiras still has Wednesday to apply more pressure when he meets with Vlad. I'm sure they will have a nice chat about how western c/b's are really after Greek gold reserves. Vlad will make an offer greeks can't resist. A military base here, a naval base there, guaranteed entry into Eurasian pact, export oportunities and profits from energy re-exports. The west is only offering slavery.
By Thurs am the IMF, EU and Germany will be suckin greek dick for any deal Greece offers. Tspipras knows he is in complete control.
That deal was done in January.
Everybody fell for the story that there was no deal.
Will we soon find out that the NGD (new Greek drachma) is backed the yuan?
Tsipras should expect a visit from die Valkyrie and/or die Rhinemaidans to serenade him for Der Eisenfrau.
Ach, beware brave, Odysseus, of the Siren of St. Petersburg.
Die Lorelei von Lenningrad
"If Greece went bankrupt today, it could cost Germany alone more than €60 billion. No wonder Angela Merkel prefers giving Greece another few billion euros to keep it afloat for the time being."
http://oliverhartwich.com/2015/06/14/no-good-choices-left-in-greek-crisis/
80 yr old women in Ukraine collects 60 $USD a month in retirement.
What does a 80 yr old women in Greece collect a month in $USD?
I know this fact because My girlfriend just Skyped her 80 yr old Aunt in Ukraine and she said so
Internet dating is so impersonal.
Now we all know how to conduct negotiations from the best there are - Greeks have been doing this for 2000 years. No surprise. They do not have any sense of propriety - they will borrow OPM - and never pay it back - but promises - oh the many promises, the never ending promises, just "trust" us. Yeah. I haveasked many times on ZH without ever receiving a positive response - Would any of you loan a Greek a dime? You know loan not give? Expect a payback, even a timely as promiused payback. If yes identify yourself for all of us to laugh at you until we pass out. Thought not. Take another stupid pill. Think like a Greek.
Any fuckwit who thinks VAT rises and pension cuts will help the Greek economy obviously a) knows fuck all about economics b) probably wears lebehosen and are German. Grinding Greece into dust doesn't work, or is there something else I need to refresh you mind of what has happened over the eurocrisis.
Twats. Please default Greece and give these cockwombles a lesson.
Isn't it Lederhosen? Lebehosen sounds like love pants.
In future, please save your pedantry for those who don't produce gems like "cockwomble".
Ya mas!
All they have to say to Greece is "out of the EU, out of Nato" too. They wouldn't even have to mention Cyprus or Turkey.
Da
This time we really really really mean it.
time to buy those Dow 18k calls again ....as usual???
I wonder if this means that Greece is going to default?
Greece is toast and it won't matter a bit
Fat lady's warming up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG6w72Q-dUE
Poor Greece. Their bloated government, corrupt leaders, unionized zombied workforce, are all dodging financial reality. Reality always wins in the end though. Unless you are a banker, then someone else has to eat your reality.
THE OUTCOME for Greece is obvious.
What is significant ... is the amount of trouble that this is causing in the global financial system. If the system was even close to being well regulated and well governed, the default of Greece would be nothing more than a hiccup.
Sovereign defaults are always a big deal. The world won't stop turning but there will be speed bumps.
Who is supposed to keep track of Jon Corzine (and billions of comingled retirement funds) today? I have him and his "server room boy" on tuesday.
Some thinkings of the market variety for your consideration:
http://thetradingcrucible.blogspot.com/
Thirty years from now I fully expect to continue to read news of an impending Greece default [within days] and the breakdown of a "last chance" agreement and what it could mean for the EU.
In that case, please cancel my subscription to your investment letter.
>>>> number of Greek bailouts
>>>> number of Russian invasions of Ukraine
Standard Disclaimer: It's like watching a rerun of Soap, but without the comedy.
Syriza is not an oil-soaked, spy-riddled paper tiger like the U.S. Tea Party.
Wake me up when the Tea Party actually defunds a war or cuts the global slime (including Israel) off.
"Syriza is not an oil-soaked, spy-riddled paper tiger like the U.S. Tea Party."
No! it is the complete Transmogrification of PASOK
" Last Chance Talks" ? Oh for fuck's sake! How many times, how many times are we gonna read that? This horse has been beat to death!
There are never any Last Chance talks. There is always an extend and pretend strategy option. When it comes to Greece, The fat lady never sings & it is never over.
I'de like all Greeks to revel in the idea that the Ukraine can now default to private creditors, and the IMF promises to take no notice of it, and to indefinitely continue NEW LOANS to Kiev's American Junta Government. So while Greece is told to fuck off and pay up. America's puppet in Ukraine is allowed to default to private creditors and to fuck them up, all the while arranging new and bigger IMF loans to maintain the fiction of a functioning Ukrainian state, under America rule.
Hey Greeks, maybe you should declare proxy war on Russia. I can bet that things will change real fucking fast if you get onboard US Policy and attack Russian nationals or ethnic Russians. Claim Russia invaded some island. Whatever it takes to be a soldier of Washington. Then the money will flow, bank on it!
No, it's over. Varoufakis wants haircuts. Just verbal guarantees for the balance of the debt.
Greece is defaulting on IMF. No fresh money from EU.
ELA won't get raised past the 83 billion limit
Done. Brace for impact.
Germany has no option and they are posturing over insignificant amounts.
At this point they are begging greece to let them win something.
Next up: Italy?
Chances are the us/imf wll be fund the deal anyway.
Its really the us that cant afford any cracks in the facade - or the people whom the us represents.
This is what happens when you owe your soul to the company store...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2tWwHOXMhI
You know, not for nothing, but pensions are obligations too, just like banker-debt.
You may not like the pension set-up, fine, then change it. New ones coming in have tighter rules and regs. But those who have ALREADY bought into the plan should get paid...How come "having a tough time affording it.." is an acceptable excuse for some, and not for others? If pensioners have to bleed to pay bank debt, why shouldn't banks have to bleed to pay pension debt?
Fuck these people and their selective morality!
When it comes to paying people pensions, there can always be comprises made.
When it comes to paying a fictional entity called a bank . . . the world suddenly losses its mind and demands the banks get paid.
Lol
The situation is laughable to say the least, its just a joke, one big joke.
Yes , cut the pensions of people who helped free the world from Nazi Germany in WWII, people who have lost brothers, mothers sisters, fathers to tyrannical nazi'sm, but dont you dare speak about costing the nazi banks money, no no their "obligations" must be enforced.
Its laughable ^^ . . . completely laughable.
Greece should tell Germany to buzz off, be the domino that starts the cascading chain reaction which will result in the entire section of southern Europe defaulting while the getting is good, then the Greeks can sit back and laugh as Berlin burns under the stench of its own hypocritical bullshit, such an event would be divine irony.
Apparently not all debt is created equal. Greece is not eligible for debt relief, while Ukraine is. As reported by the FT ….Ukraine’s creditors have a “moral obligation to agree to a restructuring that reduces Ukraine’s debt to sustainable levels…….Ukraine is right to raise the possibility of declaring a moratorium on debt servicing.” (See: Ukraine’s creditors must share the country’s pain; Link: www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/949628a4-102a-11e5-bd70-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3d5ZpUbr7). All of the sudden, western media has become concerned about the “morality” of Ukrainian debt and according to the FT, Ukraine can declare a moratorium on debt payments (I assume this primarily applies to debt owed to Russia), while Greece is not afforded this luxury. Are we to assume that US and EU taxpayers will be expected to continue financing a bankrupt Ukraine? Maybe this will be one of HRC/Jeb Bush’s campaign slogans.
We indebted some folks...
End of the road. You guys ready?
I just have a bad feeling about the Greeks being used as an excuse to unravel a whole lot of very bad economic decisions that were made by The Western Governments.