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California Labor Commission Pops The Uber Bubble, Says Workers Are Employees
Submitted by Daniel Drew of Dark Bid
California Labor Commission Pops The Uber Bubble, Says Workers Are Employees
The California Labor Commission ruled that Uber is "involved in every aspect of the operation," which means drivers are employees and not independent contractors. Uber says it's "nothing more than a neutral technology platform." The shift to employee status for California drivers threatens Uber's obscene $50 billion valuation in the private market as they face increased labor costs. The ruling could also spark an avalanche of similar lawsuits across the country.
Uber is just one example of the exploitation business model. From Washio to Airbnb, companies in the so called "sharing economy" seek to avoid licensing, regulation, insurance, standard labor costs, and basic business responsibility. This trend threatens the average worker and fosters the development of a peasant class.
The misclassification of employees as independent contractors is one of the most widespread employer abuses. The Department of Labor published a report to summarize the employment relationship under the Fair Labor Standards Act. Here are the parts that Uber clearly violated:
The extent to which the work performed is an integral part of the employer's business. If the work performed by a worker is integral to the employer's business, it is more likely that the worker is economically dependent on the employer and less likely that the worker is in business for himself or herself. For example, work is integral to the employer's business if it is a part of its production process or if it is a service that the employer is in business to provide.
The nature and degree of control by the employer. Analysis of this factor includes who sets pay amounts and work hours and who determines how the work is performed, as well as whether the worker is free to work for others and hire helpers. An independent contractor generally works free from control by the employer (or anyone else, including the employer's clients).
Without its drivers, Uber wouldn't have a business. The drivers are the backbone of the enterprise. Uber, with its "God view" monitoring system and volatile, sky-high surge pricing, definitely controls pricing and how the work is performed. Once Uber starts acting like a real business and faces normal business costs, we'll see how profitable they actually are. Until then, they are just a millennial sweatshop.
* * *
PS this clearly bad news for Uber is bullish for NYC taxi medallions, which have seen their prices tumble in recent years as a result of the Uber threat.
This might just be the second coming of the good, old, unsocial, unnetworked Yellow Cab. Interested readers can look at recent Medallion prices at the following website.
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Ruling is bullshit. Article is bullshit.
And this conclusion is based on?
Why is it that a bunch of unelected bueracrats, who've never produced a thing in their lives, get to tell a company how it can conduct it's affairs? The very idea of a 'labor commision' is bullshit, therefore any ruling it makes is also bullshit.
Whether or not you agree with the above, Uber did not employ anyone to drive cars. It acted as a matchmaking service, with the drivers getting a portion of the fee payed by the customer. This is no different than other industries, such as acting or stripping.
The government wants its cut. Next they'll say people who sell on CraigsList are employees. I ssubmitted Video to YouTube ... does that make me an employee of Google?
Next Bureau of Labor is determine freelance mining contractor is employee of Boris' Urban Proximity High Grade Copper Ore Extraction Co-op. But work for Boris is bring own rubber boot and thick leather glove! Not is even provide toilet tissue! Help! Must Boris hire now high pay accountant to withhold tax from worker?! Maybe common man is just serf to Mega Corporate State!?
Yes, the Prius being used for a taxi is what, maybe fiddy thousand? The corporate-fascist state "medallion" is...800 thousand (follow the link at the end of the article)...its like a get out of jail free card or sumpin.
There is the "racket", the state ;-)
We have an English guy who drives a van. He comes by once a week and takes us to town so we can shop and gossip.
I like the gossip on http://www.zerohedge.com better.
Companies in the so called "sharing economy" seek to avoid licensing, regulation, insurance, standard labor costs, and basic business responsibility; this trend threatens the average worker and fosters the development of a peasant class.
What is this bullshit? It's the exact opposite. The digital age allows escaping and circumventing past-century laws, and freeing the individual from the clutches of the State. We can all be John Galts, without having to go find a secret valley in Colorado.
The key challenge of our generation is separation of money and State, which the Internet will enable as well; a medium of exchange is, after all and as Hayek puts it, an information exchange system.
Where is secret valley in Colorado!? Boris is like to visit!
The "digital age" doesn't mean you can break laws, skip regulations (followed by others) and evade taxes. Get your facts straight and stop drinking Uber-sponsored corporte cool-aid.
By saying, skipping regulations, breaking laws and evading taxes we're not all of sudden talking about the Crony Clinton Foundation are we?
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate of all private email servers drops to zero.
Close UBER in CA. Problem solved.
I second that.
taxis suck, gov sucks, mafia sucks.
kill them all.
It is interesting, either the Obama State Department is complicit to the crime of obstruction of justice or Hillary! is guilty of destruction of evidence with her deleting frenzy, evidence oddly enough, supplied by her confidant, one Sidney Blumenthal.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/us/politics/sidney-blumenthal-hillary-clintons-confidant-turns-over-memos-on-libya.html?_r=2
Clearly "the smartest woman in the world" needs to hit her reset button again ;-)
Greet the next President of the FORMER United States of Amerika
Comradez!!!!
No, I'm talking about David Plouffe and other polictical parasites working FOR UBER.
Your just raised the level of local cronyism to level of FEDERAL and STATE cronyism.
Uber is a multinational. It monopolizes markets. Ignoring these facts is biased.
Amen. The author is an idiot.
"Right". $800k in the pockets of offshore Uber billionaire owners is so much better....
Our cities going bankrupt and here we are still "concerned" about billionaire oligarchy making a bit less while hidng behind the "sharing eCONomy" facade.
Lemme guess, you're an ignorant prog who thinks that just because the city/state/feds have moar of the workers money, the worker will be better off?
The Uber guy who drove us to my sister-in-laws house at 2:30 in the morning WAS NOT a fucking bilionaire.
Dumbass.
Uber drivers are not billionaires BUT deserve to be treated like human beings (read: employees).
Your position is clear and has little logic in it. Just send your (profits) to Uber billionaire owners. "Support" them
because, you know, they pay all these taxes, dues and fees that benefit thousands of local communities (NOT!).
What are you, like five years old?
"Uber drivers are not billionaires BUT deserve to be treated like human beings (read: employees)."
People have to be "employees" of someone else to be treated as human beings? A business owner is not a human being, I'm not a human being because I was (at one time) wait for it...self-employed?
"Your position is clear and has little logic in it. Just send your (profits) to Uber billionaire owners. "Support" them"
If the drivers didn't make a profit they wouldn't be driving.
"because, you know, they pay all these taxes, dues and fees that benefit thousands of local communities (NOT!)."
What statist socialist planet do you live on?
In one breath you attempt to make it about "the rich" and assail my logic, then in the next you attack the drivers for not paying taxes, dues & fees! Just because two parties engage in commerce (a transaction) between themselves, negotiated by themselves, does not convey some "right" for the parasitical "local community" to make a monetary profit off of it.
The "local community" benefits from lower cab fares. Period. They had nothing to do with the transaction.
You tell me how your advocacy for the "local communities" greed (its insurmountable hunger for taxes, fees & dues...ie money) is more important than the free exchange of goods & services.
Fucking unreal.
He is not a billionaire.
He is a slave.
The irony being that slaves expect the biggest slave owner/murderer on the planet (The State), to lift them from Slavery and protect them from murderers.
Multibillion dollar Uber doesn't pay taxes, local dues, licensing fees, etc. The new defnition of "fair".
Or cleptocracy in other words.
This is nothing more than a good ol' fashioned Mafia Shakedown.
Ok, lets do this one at a time, K? Lets start with my pet peeve, licensing fees.
When the state "licenses" someone (for ANYTHING), do they assume any liability whatsoever for licensing them? I'll answer for you...no they do not. So what is the point?
Isn't it really paying off the largest gang and its members off to operate on "their turf"?
I await your rebuttal/reply with bated breath ;-)
Yes.
The largest gang would be UBER with its $50 BILLION dollars.
NOT thousands of local tax-paying and law-compliant small businesses.
Uber has billions WTF is the problem compying to laws and regulations tjat others (small ones) are FORCED to comply to??
Uber is nightmare hybrid of Walmart and Enron. Zero innovation. Tons of lies. I see Uber PR machine is deep embedded in your way of thinking, Good luck. Don't forget to make sure commercial liabilty insurance is valid next time you dive into some private uninspected "sharing" vehicle with x7 surge-priced charge. Because an APP!!
^^^Stockholm Syndrome, Exhibit A
Uber is larger than government or you want government to attack Uber?
So we've established you believe in monopolies but only government sanctioned monopolies.
As oppossed to your local officer friendly sticking a gun in your face demanding you pay your fair share and follow the rules. Your fair share and the rules more often than not written by this special interest group or another as a way of enforcing their government granted cartel rights or a way of buying off certain voting blocks. Its called fascism and big government types left and right love it.
$800K just for the right to drive someone from point A to point B because some government flunkies created a legally protected limited competition cartel?
Because my TOWN is NOT a limitless parking lot for the ENDLESS Uber vehicles that PAY 0 taxes, dues and fees when compared to thousands EXISTING businesses oferng their own apps.
I See. You're a loser cabbie that's butthurt because you're up against free market competition. Lol.
Don't worry buddy. Soon you ll be replaced by driverless cars. Then who you gonna bitch about?
Taxi cab companies are incredibly connected politically in cities in states like the Mafia. NYC seized a bunch of Uber contractors vehicles according to NY Post. Over 100 vehicles. They said they were picking people up hailing cabs. Uber will be crushed by these criminals.
BS. If they would be connected - Uber wouldn't be allowed to break laws and regulations ON A DILY BASIS.
The biggest crooked MAFIA in the house is here. The name is UBER.
We can't possibly allow anyone to circumvent the bureaucracy and tax structure of Big Brother's police state.
...except, of course, those who are well-connected campaign contributors...
"Hey, little girl! Yes, you with the lemonade stand! Where's your permit?.."
Walmart, Apple, GE pay close to ZERO taxes. Now - read the posts - do you really want UBER to pay ZERO taxes too??
I mean, seriously. We all pay taxes BUT the big multibillion dollar mega-corporations.
Uber has $50 BILLION dollar valuation and pays ZERO taxes and dues when compared to local transportation small businesses.
How can anyone support this premise is beyond me. Uber drivers ARE employees and should getting their fair share
of Uber profits. That is until Uber dumps them off anyway for the robotic driver-less cars it is building.
That the idiot who ripped off this article blatantly left out some key important info.
The rulling is for the single driver who brought a complaint against Uber to the Labor Board! At least the Reuters Article somewhat states that. This fucktard who somehow got his shit summary posted on ZH flat out OMITTED that key info.
THIS IS BASICALLY A FUCKING PROPAGANDA PIECE! GET YOUR SHIT IN ORDER ZH!
Propaganda typically comes from UBER these days. With easy BILLIONS it literally if flooding the world with lies and deception while profiting on crimes and tax-evasion.
This court decision is the FIRST RIGHT step in the right direction. Uber drivers ARE employees and $50 BILLION dollar Uber should acknowledge the fact instead of fighting around it.
The decison is non-bining BUT IT WILL BE. Mark it. Why? Because it make PERFECT 100% sense to ALL but few Uber paid social media trolls.
Uber crooked manager?
This trend threatens the average worker and fosters the development of a peasant class.
Translation, this trend threatens tax revenue.
Zactly.
God forbid Don Moonbeam doesn't get his cut of the action.
Why don't you just wire your monthly pay to the Uber billionaire olygarchy owners ?
Feed them. Because of an "app" that they factually stole. "Innovation" and stuff, you know.
Why not create an idea that competes with Uber? Oh that's right, it just easier to fucking complain about rich people, and live the Deadly Sin known as Envy.
How much does Uber receive in subsidies?
Did you even read lawsuits that allege Uber STOLE the APP?
Do you even know that Uber faces MULTIPLE copyright infridgement lawsuits?
Are you aware of the FACT that vehicle dispatch APPS existed YEARS before Uber ??
Uber's "advantage" is NOT an app. It's "advantage" is blatant violatons of laws and regulations
followed by thousands others. A mind-twisting regulatory arbitrage, if you will.
A play of words. And a consistent LYING propagana machine led by non other than David Plouffe himself.
Indeed I did, Prince Ruprecht.
How exactly does one own the ideas, or the identity of another? /rhetorical
See my comment below and feel free to get back to me when you've taking the cork off the fork.
"Why don't you just wire your monthly pay to the Uber billionaire olygarchy owners ?"
Oh I dunno, cuz I can drive?
The ONLY reason I take cabs (Uber or otherwise in a city) is because of the absolutely draconian, insane laws about drinking and driving where one is "legally" intoxicated after a few drinks.
But you wanted to talk about theft by highwaymen dressed as cops vs personal liberty.
Didn't you? ;-)
Good for you. Many can't drive and shouldn't rely on UBER's mercy to offer wheelchair-accessible services
and regulated predictable fares. There are laws in this industry. It had APPS before Uber even existed.
Hypotetically, if my fares are regulated and known - why shouldn't be Uber's ??
Why should Uber be able to raise its fares (at will) - for example, x7 and - others can't, by law!
Why is it that AFTER Uber was caught red-handed in Seattle (and admitted) to have been ARTIFICIALLY
raising its fares (ahmmm.... "surge-pricing algorithm") - nothing beyond a clap on the hand happened to it??
They are rigging their prices. They are competing unfairly. They are NOT paying to local municipalities even 1% (!!)
of what other existing small businesses are paying WHILE OFFERING THEIR OWN APPS.
I always like and respect your points. But your posts on this matter are nothing but a product of Uber PR department
led by David Plouffe. If you believe him then our conversation has just ended. Good day.
Translation #2, this trend threatens freedom of choice. We can't have freedom of choice when we are attempting to control all behavior.
Privately negotiated employment contracts = Dodo bird
"Uber is just one example of the exploitation business model. From Washio to Airbnb, companies in the so called "sharing economy" seek to avoid licensing, regulation, insurance, standard labor costs, and basic business responsibility. This trend threatens the average worker and fosters the development of a peasant class."
And without the underlined (without the government) they have provided a superior service then what was available prior and at a cheaper price.
Can you imagine what would happen if the government would exit the healthcare system and just made health insurance illegal? Costs would PLUMMET and those few people who couldn't afford it would be able to lean on charities. Doctors could set their prices based on the market and patients could choose which doctors to see that they could afford. The entire healthcare system would be fixed if we just did those two things and instead of trying to "fix" healthcare the government pursued tort reform. Boooom all fixed.
The Best thing that could happen in America would be the ending of Health Insurance, replaced with a total fee for service by consumer. Illegal to put a thrid party between doctor and patient. Costs would collapse, as patients ask "what's that gonna cost Doc?"
you mean fat asses that ate their way into a hover round chair, diabetes, knee and disc replacements would have to pay for it directly instead of socializing the responsibility thru private insurance or Medicare?
My [anti-psychotic] meds used to cost me $4 a month when I paid for my own health insurance out of my own pocket but then forced off it into Obamacare which now runs me over $40/Rx and huge deductibles for any doctor visits.
If anyone called Piglosi, Reed and Barry shitheads, I would not disagree.
Without government "standards" (i.e The Food Pyramid) they would not have eaten themselves into a Scooter Store Scooter Chair.
+1
Fuck California! Why should Uber do any of the thing listed below? If you don't like the deal, don't fucking do it!
Uber is just one example of the exploitation business model. From Washio to Airbnb, companies in the so called "sharing economy" seek to avoid licensing, regulation, insurance, standard labor costs, and basic business responsibility. This trend threatens the average worker and fosters the development of a peasant class.
EXACTLY!
Surprise, surprise. .. government destroyed the manufacturing base and now expresses outrage that a informal economy is sprouting to replace it.
Uber billionaire owners need slave labor. Simple.
You don't like it? Don't work as an Uber driver. Let other people do what they want.
That's the kind of free market libertarian attitude that will get you junked around here.
Seems to have worked fairly well to date. It's the fascists that want to tell everyone else who they can work for, and under what conditions that are usually the targets of ZH ire. Free market libertarians like myself are usually fairly comfortable here.
Uber oligarchy are the fascists. They couldn't give a fark about anyone.
Spending "easy bubble" billions on driver-less cars.
Forward!!
Someone clearly has a problem with the definition of the word "fascism."
From Wikipedia: "Fascists advocate a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky to secure national self-sufficiency and independence through protectionist and interventionist economic policies."
California intervention WITH COMPULSION = facism.
Uber doing what they want and surviving based on whether or not they provide a reasonable service (for drivers and customers) WITHOUT ANY COMPULSION = the opposite of facism.
Apparently, therefore you = facist, since you support using COMPULSION against people who would prefer to be left alone to freely associate with each other.
A $50 BILLION dollar multinational mega-corporation Uber hiring David Plouffe and other corrupt dirty politicos, twisting hands of local governments, breaaking laws, evading taxes, perpetuating lies and disinformation - no, that's not fascism?? Ok. Some of you apprently are too young to realize the true meaning of the "sharing" economy. Trust me - the wealth of those Cali billionaires behind this massive cam won't be shared. Ever. Sharing is for plebs. Welcome.
No. Even if it were true and not simply spin, that's not fascism. Fascism requires what is effectively a public-private partnership and is pretty much the equivalent of an over-regulated crony-capitalism.
When a company sets up disruptive market alternatives and PISSES OFF the control freaks that don't like to let people make their own choices (even if it's determining who I want to drive around for a fee - or who I want to pay to drive me around), that's exactly the opposite of fascism.
And "evading taxes" by whatever legal means possible is simply the moral obligation of anyone or any corporation that understands they should do whatever they can to remove support for illegitimate misanthropic monopolistic governments.
This is an argument against government bureacrats. Not Uber lobbyists.
No gummint = no need for lobbying sunshine.
Did it ever cross your mind that the CA Criminal Monopoly is fascist on behalf of Cab, Bus, and train operators?
Heh ... case in point ... the majority of the commenters and the rating on this article.
RIGHT! Uber drivers want their jobs. Who the fuck is to tell them they shouldn't have the job they want? Christ I hate these people who are wedded to legacy corporations and wage slavery that they foster. Fuck, customer and provider, if they want to do a deal, who the fuck should tell tham they can't do it? Yes, welocme to Americam the land where everybody wants to tell people they can't work. They must beg a corporation for the right to earn a wage. Fuck!
Fark Uber and the criminal tax-evading idiots supporting this lying deceitful criminal enterprise.
Laws can't be made "selective". And if they are - as Uber wants - then why should we all abide by ANY law??
I will stop paying my taxes tomorrow, and I will take that penthouse I like forcefully. Yeah. Alrigthy!!!
PS. While doing so - I will show you my APP! I promise!!
Calling something or someone a criminal for attempting to evade the criminal act of Theft, which you call taxation.
Now that's fucking rich!!!
Uber the fuck on Bytchez.
Why not just lobby to have that penthouse redistributed to you by law? .... that would be okay I guess.
I guess if the state is your gun, it's okay to put it to your neighbor's head to make them pay for your health insurance, or deny them the right of free association, or force them to comply with regulations who's only de-facto purpose is to limit the competition lobbyists and special interests might need to deal with.
becasue the elimination of slavery was a constitutional amendment - there is NO choice
maybe "you" should leave if you dont like it!
How wonderfully Orwellian. When people FREELY associate and there is no compulsion you call it "slavery."
When choices are limited and controlled by regulation that favors entrenched businesses, eliminates competition, and limits choices ... this, I guess is "freedom."
"What color is the sky in your world?"
"How wonderfully Orwellian". There. You defined UBER.
Well. When the brunt of your argument doesn't address anything your responding to and amounts to "well you're a jerk too!" you've pretty much surrendered.
No. I don't like it because hundreds of thousands of transportation businesses are operating lawfully and paying up, and scam-artist $50 BILLION dollar Uber wants an "exemption". Why? Because an "app" they factually didn't invent but stole. Yeah.... "innovation" my ass.
Another argument against The State, specifically IP law.
slave implies involuntary mandatory labor with the threat of punishment for non-compliance.
Uber is a 100% voluntary participation business. voluntary for the drivers, voluntary for the customers.
Then PAY your taxes, and FOLLOW laws, COMPLY to regulations like THOUSANDS of other businesses offering their own (in many cases - better) apps. And please settle MULTIPLE lawsuits alleging Uber STOLE the app it promotes.
Slavery requires coercion. What is coercive about Uber? Nobody is required to work for Uber. Coercion only exists when there is a State.
You should see the looks on peoples faces when surge pricing kicks in and I pick them up in my 76 Buick Skylark
Two door or four door...??
Bet you had commercial insurance on too lol ;)
The remedial translation of this article could be summed up like this:
'Misery loves company, and Gawd-Damn it, Yer gonna be miserable (with government $$$burden), just like the rest of us...'
Yes, let's celebrate New Yorkers, as the Uber exploitation of the worker model is killed off and we return to the Medallion oligopoly exploitation of the customer model! It's fun to see the corporate criminals fight amongst each other, and as long as some business criminal somewhere is exploiting somebody we're all good.
Ruling is bullshit - because Uber does NOT set the employees hours, and the employees are 'independent' as far as which rides they decide to pick up, which route to take, etc. And I am not an Uber fan - I just dislike California government more than Uber!
They also own and insure their own cars, while traditional taxi drivers -- who are ALSO considered "independent contractors" -- lease them from the company.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If Uber drivers are employees, so are all cabbies working for traditional companies. And they certainly deserve to be paid honest (i.e. minimum) wages, as well as to receive insurance for the often dangerous work they do.
Too bad these tech morons are not busy trying to "disrupt" the business of fascist corporatocracy.
Of course there isno shame as far as they are all concerned, becuase they are all Goldman rejects.
Maybe this is the beginning of the uber tech bubble bursting (again).
So I'm confused. Are millenials being exploited by Uber because they are working hard as independent contractors, not wanting to be an employee of a big company? Or are they lazy FSA bastards who sit in their mom's basements and do nothing? Do right wing populists support the government wholesale interfering in the marketplace and reclassifying a bunch of people as "employees" for their own good, knowing they'll get thrown out of a job? I guess the answer to that last one is "yes."
The one I used in Largo was prompt, thirtyish and put up with some seriously drunk assholes (my friends & family) with a smile and good humor.
Which I found remarkable even in my inebriated state, he was tipped well ;-)
....bullish, ...that means the cab companies whom also contracts with drivers, are subject to the same ruling as Uber.
Did I accidentally stumble onto the DailyKos or the Huffington Post?
Did I accidentally stumble onto a MarxHedge.com article?
LOL
America has become many things since political campaign money became open and then secret bribes for favors. Corporations with the old models of business are using their bribed politicias and their judges to attack the new economy. Competition is the last thing legacy businesses want. They use the power of communism to supress capitalist competition. We all know it, it is the life blood of the political system. Money buys power via the bribery system of fake democracy.
I expect the law to be used to shut down any and all Americans who seek to work for themselves and build tiny micro businesses upon their equity and sweat equity. Legacy fat corporations are wedded to communism, they know that government is their friend. He who owns the politicians and their courts owns the economy.
The war on workers continues. If you want to work, without the corporation taking all the wealth created by your work and giving you a check for starvation wages, then corporate America will send the Communists from Government to shut you down.
Has America ever needed a revolution as much as it needs it now. Police state. War Mongers. Unlimited spying. Controlled propaganda media. Just makes me sick. And they proclaim THIS the only model for economic and national governance. Are ready to start World War three to force this system down everyone's throats.
Revolution would only be possible if people starved, the TV and Netflix were to go off the air, professional athletes ceased to exist, and people actually cared about their future.
There is a difference between Communism and Crony Capitalism. You need to get your terminology straight. What you are describing, and the corrupt system that we are ruled by, is Crony Capitalism. Its roots go back to the Whigs of 17th century London, who invented the Bank of England and the debt-based paper currency which has been used in western European nations ever since.
Communism, alas, has never truly been tried on a scale larger than the City of Paris, and has been ruthlessly stomped out by foreign invasions paid for by the banking elites every time it has been tried.
"Communism, alas, has never truly been tried..."
ROTFL!
Fidel & Che killed it, Lenin & Stalin killed it, Mao killed it! Its always some one elses fault...lol.
Look, you need to grow the fuck up, the only true communistic "system" is reminiscent of American Indian tribes and even there it was "a chief" or shaman telling you to go fish, hunt or gather the corn up FOR THEM...or fucking else.
Fucking communists...lol.
I own a tour and limo service in California. I have nothing against Uber, I would just like to see the playing field leveled.
I pay huge fees to get a "Passenger Carrier" license
I have to get special plates for my cars (fee)
I cannot call drivers "contactors" even if they use their own cars and set the hours/accept decline runs
I and my drivers have to be drug tested on a regular basis by a third party which I must pay a fee for
I must have my vehicles inspected by the CHP and pay fees
I must pay a percentage of my revenue to the California PUC
I cannot service airports without a special license (fee) a transponder (fee) a second level of vehicle inspection (fee)and must pay yet another fee when I actually make a run to the airport
I don't want Uber to havr to comply to this, but I would like to be relieved of these requirements. Double standard sucks
Sounds more like your state and its laws are retarded, not really other peoples fault.
Couldn't agree more, the laws are retarded. I should be free to do business as I please, just like Uber. So why the down votes? The double standard is somehow justified?
Maybe they're saying open up a "side bidnez" where all those government diktats & mandates don't apply. Don't get me wrong, I recognize you're doing the "legal" thing in a very crooked "legal" world.
Jon Corzine flying around free as a bird comes to mind ;-)
Yep, you got it. I don't have the connections to be "legally illegal", I'm just little people.
I don't comply with the laws because I like them, respect them or because I am some goody two shoes. Trouble is, if I am not compliant, my insurance is voided, so if there is an accident some asshole sues me and a jury awards him my house.
reminds me of the scene from Blade Runner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lru1Qxc1l8
Dont worry fred. Your business will go bust and you will own nothing. Total fascism will be around the corner and we will be taking public transportation with cattle cars to Auchwitz and we will be enjoying governmemt produced soylent green for dinner
Yeah, you are probably right, but I'm talking about the next 6-12 months before that happens
Yeah, I have family in the insurance biz and they struggle with the "mandates" imposed on them too (from a moral aspect) seeing what it does to the small guys.
Its getting pretty onerous for the little guy, they know but like you, its a "mandate" from on high.
Maybe if we all rolled ourselves up in bubble wrap so there would never be damage ;-)
Thanks for your post Fred Garvin (male prostitute!! I get it!!)
I have driven Uber for about 4 months now, and if it wasn't for Uber I would be defaulting on debts and moving into my 83 year old dads basement.
I understand the issues you point out about it being unfair. I also hear constantly about how bad cab companies are, how the drivers are rude and expect tips and want you to pay in cash and the cabs smell.....
There are 30 cranes in Waikiki putting in new towers, and not a single square inch of new road. It's the same story all across the country, traffic is worse than ever. If we can't allow new technologies to help us solve our new age problems, we are truly fucked.
I hope we can find a way to let your business flourish as well as mine.
The drivers are not employees, they are associates.
Uber is selling the service of having a job.
Not hiring.
Its similar to a leads service.
If you were a painter, and there was some website that people looking for painters went to , and you paid the website for leads that got you customers . . . its the same thing.
You dont have to hire people to have people working for you / with you.
Its closer to a limited partnership with the drivers than an employee/employer status.
That being said, this is the future of things to come. . . very WIDE organizational structures, because TOP DOWN doesn't really work so well anymore for day to day businesses.
You know whats pushing these types of de-centralized businesses though . . . insurance costs. . . imagine if UBER had to provide each driver with Health Insruance lol . . . they would go out of business over-night.
You get what you vote for, people voted for Obama and Obama care, and they voted themself unemployed and part of "labor groups" for half the wages . . . and now they cant even afford the so-called Obama care they thought was going to be free. . . . <.<
In anycase, such a ruling that uber has to employ and grant benefits to said employees in California would likeley result in Uber disapearing (from california) , it will simply rebrand itself to "Uber, a ride everywhere *except california) . . . ^^
So in the end california will just . . . inconvenience itself and take jobs away from people willing to work.
In anycase, given the choice between a cab or a TLC / Uber ride . . . . I would probably take whatever is cheaper/faster/cleaner car.
We normally call car-service dispatching places... the fees are usually 5~10$ for 2 ~3 miles depending how many people we have in the car it comes out pretty cheap, I dont really see the advantage to the consumer with UBER other than you probably get a ride in a more friendly environment where the driver probably speaks english and doesnt look like hes part of the taliban.
Not true - Uber is a non-crony-capitalist way of avoiding stinky cabs, and is fighting the good fight against monopolistic cab companies. The drivers are not being exploited but actually allowed to make some money - as true independent contractors.
What's really happening is a bunch of really dumb "business contractors", i.e. the drivers, who have no concept of the true costs of running their "business", including the depreciation and maintenance of their vehicles, are being exploited in their ignorance by some smart whiz kids who realize there are lots of folks who own vehicles but who can't do math let alone produce a financially sound income statement and balance sheet.
They know "sheep to shear" when they see them...
Not true, have you talked with any of the drivers,
I have. Most drivers start out naively, and quickly learn about mileage logs and deductions to help offset the vehicle upkeep and fuel costs. They maintain logs of business use of cell service to help offset it's cost.
America has lost its independent, wild west mind set.
Pity. Don't Tread on Me.
The "most drivers start out naively" part I agree with completely. But the "quickly learn about mileage logs and deductions to help offset the vehicle upkeep and fuel costs" part should be changed to "eventually realize that after vehicle maintenance and depreciation costs, as well as insurance costs to prevent them from getting sued into the stone ages if they have an accident, they make less money than greeters at Walmart, if any at all".
The stench of uber raped pissedon back seat @ surge price. Priceless.
"Uber is non-crony-capitalist". With David Plouffe working for them?
AND $50 billion dollar valuation??
What are you smoking???
sign up and earn $50. Yes, my son and 1000's more signed up this weekend by giving a bit of info. NO one plans to drive, or training, URBR did this to pad the stats for the coming IPO.
While never a fan of Bismarkian/Progressive/Eugenic California, they might have did everyone a favor with this "ruling."
No doubt the Silcon Valley techno-slavery crowd will legislate a correction pre- IPO.
Now Obama and the BS-LS can't take all the credit for creating a nation of glorified pizza delivery drivers.
What is the half-life of an average Uber driver? Two weeks?
In five years these Uber people will be living in their cars. else Herr Hillary build a nation of indentured housing for their $6/hr serfs.
Not even the pedi-cabs of Calcutta operate on these margins.
Think of the Obamacare overhead for this scheme.
"Free enterprise in California? Aack. We can't have that!". - California Labor Commission
Plenty of free enterprise in California. Just look at all the illegal Mexicans mowing the lawns of these tech millionaires. Independent contractors I tells ya.
Free enterprise - YES. Criminal enterprise - NO.
Uber is the latter.
Besides, what's your concern with $50 BILLION dollar Uber treating its employee-drivers AS EMPLOYEES !?
That's what they are. Denying the obvious is futile.
Mind you, Uber is making billions in Cali w/o paying even a penny back to local municipalities.
They already are the "free-loaders". This ruling is JUST and shoud be binding.
Fees, regulations, licensing, permits and all the factors that have squat to do with delivering the end service are an exploitation business model. The government hates competition - plain and simple.
Peasant class, eh? I'd take it any day over the welfare class.
Fuck the government!
Right. That whole bit about the price of a New York Taxi medallion -- that's the utterly arbitrary price of doing business imposed by New York City as a fee FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. There is NO value added by NYC's permit; it exists for two purposes 1) to reduce competition among cabbies and thereby support high fares and 2) to put money in the city's treasury. From the consumer's view, it's a classic example of government that is more than inefficient; it's outright predatory.
I've noticed something in my own city since coming back after an absence of a decade and the rise of Uber. YOU CAN NOW GET A CAB. It used to be that the only way to secure reliable third-party transport was to book one of the airport limousine services at least 2 days in advance. Now, there are at least three companies running fleets, and taxicabs are visible on all the major roads day and night. A brand-new, fully legitimate service uses computer dispatching to get transport anywhere in the city within a hour. I have no idea how to use Uber and I'm not sure I want to, but I appreciate the change that competition from Uber has made in the business as a whole.
No. Reason no. 1 was so that the island of Manhattan won't become a huge parking lot.
Which it is right now - a HUGE parking lot for endless law-violating Uber private cars with shady inspection stickers and no commercial insurance. And, pay x7 ! Hey, it's "an app" and you are "cool" - just pay and see your Uber driver take you to your destination, hopefully. Or not.
Why should $50 billion dollar UBER be exempt from "Fees, regulations, licensing, permits"??
If you want criminal Uber oligarchy be even more filthy richer then just wire your paycheck to them.
Expect no thank you in return. They couldn't care less about any of us.
Businesses are not about "care". They're not your parent. They're not your nanny. They're businesses. Service for money, full stop. The taxi drivers don't care about us. The government doesn't care about us. One service provides little value for a lot of money, the other service gives more and takes less. I'm the service recipient and I vote with my wallet. Fuck the government and the dinosaur taxi cabal. Adapt or perish.
The reason Uber is still around is because the business model is solid. Less in, more out.
I think that traditionally cab drivers are generally considered as independent contractors because they rent their cabs from the cab company. For example, there was just recently a ruling to this effect in Massachusetts:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/04/21/mass-high-court-rejects-bol...
I wonder whether CA considers traditional cab drivers to be independent contractors? Anyone know?
Criminal and tragic: The criminal parasites of government unleash rock slides upon those attempting to climb up, and floods against those that they have knocked to the bottom.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission..
Firearms may be used as a floatation device.
Just like a flock of birds taking a dump while sitting in a tree.
When the ones at the top look down, all they see is shit.
When the ones at the bottom look up, all they see is assholes.
The criminal parasites at Uber are thanking all those clueless enough to stand in support of their criminal tax-evading multibillion dollar scam. Thank you. Come again! Just listen to our PR dedpartment and believe our corporate PR team!
We tell truth! (when we are in deep sleep).
Question: If you're a part-time Uber driver, do you have to declare and pay social security tax on that income?
Simple answer: Yes
Are you aware that Mayor Rahm Emanuel's brother (of Obamacare fame) owns Uber Chicago....was told this by a Chicago Licensed Taxi Driver who was complaining about Rahm and why he lost union support is close run-off election recently.
The Left are starting to go after each other!
Ubber, and other companies like it, need to take a stand and pull out of any and all states which rule their contract workers are in fact employee's. Reward the states which don't screw them. I know this will hurt their perceived revenue, but, there's a possibility they could take a loss in California.
Zero Hedge is just being fair - they have to print the occassional rabid Marxist horseshit like this every once in a while.
Ruling is bullshit, but I like the idea.
I've worked too many jobs via "recruiters", I'm officially an employee of the recruiting agency for the six months of the job, they're the cut-out so the real employer doesn't get hit with all kinds of regulations. That's bullshit too.
The exploitation business model is what's hot today, and most millennials have never seen anything else and are happy and proud to be exploited. It's friggin' sad.
this will probably speed up the trend towards driverless vehicles w the uber model- users -people in general- will not need to have their own cars (already a trend, i believe), and will ultimately be forbidden from driving (after human-driven cars' insurance prices skyrocket). just a thought.
Pretty obvious that UBER's shills are out in force today. Three guys on the first page of comments railing about "bullshit". lol. Got sock puppets? Really sloppy shilling their guys. Come on, you can do better.
Anyway, is it that obvious what should happen to Uber? How about Airbnb? Would you Uber defenders like it if your neighbors turned their place into an Airbnb residence and you had strangers coming in going week in and week out? Or is that somehow different? Come on you Uber defenders, explain the principles in play here.
FROM THE ARTICLE : Uber is just one example of the exploitation business model. From Washio to Airbnb, companies in the so called "sharing economy" seek to avoid licensing, regulation, insurance, standard labor costs, and basic business responsibility.
jeez, sure sounds backward to me. It sounds like the GOVERNMENT "model" is exploitive.
It's a difficult call but based on those guidelines, taxi drivers should probably also be classified as employees.
I don't know what Uber does, or how they treat their "subcontractors", but the name Uber sounds teutonic, evil, and racist.
Here what it means: CORPORATISM UBER ALLES.
CORPORATISM ABOVE ALL (things and/or people) !!!
paraphrase of Deutschland, Deutschland über alles,
German anthem. The same fascist anthem used by Hitler with minor changes.
it's is sad to see those calling themselves freedom loving libertarians do bidding for corporatist parasites such as UBER owned by Wall Street who want them pauperized or dead. What a mind job done on desperate peasant minds.
UBER and medallion system they are all corporatist schemes to take away economic liberty and turn us into peasants. UBER business model is a feudal model, where peasants do not know how long they will be working where and for how much. The unpaid servant class is the goal of those Silicon Valley retards.
These drivers are ALL EMPLOYEES OF UBER. If they were independent contractors they would be able to pick up any fare anytime anywhere and from any source job order.
We ALL should be able to pick up whoever we want and whenever we want for whatever money we accept. That's freedom.
What the fuck we need UBER for?. Use your brains people.
It is indeed sad to see so many good intelligent (I hope) posters do the bidding for crooks like Uber that couldn't give a *&^ about any of us. None of the multinationals care. None. And Uber is one of the BIGGEST multinationals striving to monopolize all local transportation and set its own unregulated corporate-controlled pricing.
I will repeat what poster above me said: USE YOUR BRAIN PEOPLE.
So far it reads as some of you have swallowed Uber corporate PR department (David Plouffe - that ALONE should tell you what Uber truly is) message hook and sinker.
Doubt what they say. Why? Because Uber is one of the most lying and deceiving corporations out there. Uber is trully ORWELLIAN. Freedom is slavery. Couldn't be more relevant.
Uber = Groupon on wheels.
Groupon on wheels = Hell on whells.
This is what happens when you do a job anyone can do, yet charge an arm and a leg for it. The only way to pull it off is government protection. The thugs need thugs.