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Greek Citizens Threaten To "Take The Heads" Of "Grave Digging" Creditors
Why there’s quite a bit of ambiguity surrounding Greece’s protracted (and increasingly absurd) negotiations with creditors, one thing is clear: the Greek populace faces a lose-lose scenario.
Striking a deal with creditors means accepting more austerity including pension cuts and a VAT hike. Failure to reach a deal means redenomination and, in all likelihood, an outright economic collapse as Greece is digitally bombed back to a barter system.
The combination of austerity and economic depression has hit the country’s pensioners especially hard, and times would get even tougher should PM Alexis Tsipras choose to concede to the troika’s so-called “red lines.” In April, pension payments were delayed by some 8 hours in what Athens claimed was a “technical glitch” and the Greek government’s move to borrow from pension funds in order to pay the bills not only represents yet another in a series of ridiculously circular funding schemes, but also demonstrates the extent to which pensioners are imperiled by Greece’s increasingly desperate situation.
Their backs against the wall, some Greeks have had enough and say further cuts to pensions and/or an increase in the VAT would lead some citizens to revolt (and that’s putting it mildly). WSJ has more:
As Greece lurches toward climb-down or collision with its creditors, an exhausted population is bracing for more economic pain—either way.
Panagiotis Koupalidis, a 68-year-old retiree, is supporting his wife as well as their three grown children, who lost their jobs in Greece’s depression, on a pension of €700 ($790) a month. That is just over half what it was before the austerity measures imposed by creditors as the condition for bailout loans..
“The creditors are acting like grave diggers,” he says. “They want to send us pensioners to an early grave.” Pension cuts and sales-tax increases—which would inflict the most pain on low-income families already living hand to mouth—are the most politically explosive demands from Greece’s creditors, who see them as essential to restoring Greece’s long-term financial stability.
(Communist-affiliated union members at the finance ministry last week)
Mr. Tsipras told lawmakers from his left-wing Syriza party that Greece can’t accept the terms on offer, but tried to sound optimistic. “I believe that we are now in the final stretch. The real negotiations are starting now,” he said on Tuesday.
Failure to reach a deal could lead to even-more pain through capital controls, further economic meltdown and a turbulent exit from the euro.
The prospect of sharp hikes in value-added tax, a form of sales tax, are threatening to hurt Greece’s battered business sector further. Lenders want to simplify Greece’s exemption-ridden VAT system and raise some rates to boost revenues by 1% of GDP a year.
The IMF is insisting on the measure through even though it thinks Greece’s economy is already overtaxed, because it sees extra revenues as essential for paying down Greek debt if Europe—which holds the bulk of it—won’t write it down.
“How can a deal that raises VAT even more be a good deal?” said Christos Lousis, a 53-year-old entrepreneur whose window-installation business had 26 employees before the crisis.
Years of recession have forced him to lay them all off, while his sales have fallen by nearly 90%. Now struggling to service his mortgage and the loans on his shrunken business, the father of two also fears that Greece will strip away homeowners’ protection from repossession by banks—which Greece’s creditors have pushed for to protect the banking system.
“They are going to turn us into murderers,” Mr. Lousis says. “If they come to seize my house I’m ready to take the head of whoever is standing there—and I’m not the only one thinking this way.”
And, in what is perhaps the best explanation of why talks between Athens and Brussels have hit a wall, Kathimerini reports that despite the fact that pensions account for some 18% of spending (the most in the EU), pensioners still find themselves struggling to stay above the poverty line.
The plight of 79-year-old Athenian Zina Razi and thousands like her strikes at the heart of why talks between Greece and its creditors have collapsed. She lives off a pension system that helps to consume a huge proportion of state spending and can appear overly indulgent - but still she's broke.
Razi barely keeps up with her power and water bills, and since her middle-aged son lost his job, supports him as well. "I am always in debt," she said. "I can't even imagine going to the cinema or the theatre like I did in the past."
Five years of austerity policies imposed at the creditors' behest have helped to turn a recession into a full-blown depression, and still they want more. Athens has flatly refused to achieve further savings by raising value-added tax on essential items or, crucially, slashing pension benefits.
('high stakes' pensioner poker)
As it inches closer to default and a potentially calamitous exit from the euro zone, the government has dismissed such demands as "absurd" or designed to pummel Greeks' morale.
To the lenders, the pension system is still too generous compared with what the country can afford. Greece spent 17.5 percent of its economic output on pension payments, more than any other EU country, according to the latest available Eurostat figures from 2012.
With existing cuts, this figure has since fallen to 16 percent.
The lenders have denied asking for specific pension cuts. But the Greek side said among their suggestions was slashing a top-up payment that supports some of the poorest pensioners. For Razi, that would mean losing 180 euros ($203) out of her 650-euro monthly pension.
The average Greek pension is 833 euros a month. That's down from 1,350 euros in 2009, according INE-GSEE, the institute of the country's largest labour union. Moreover, 45 percent of pensioners receive monthly payments below the poverty line of 665 euros, the government says. With more than a quarter of Greek workers jobless, many rely on parents and grandparents for financial support.
"They can take our money, but they cannot take our hearts and souls. We live for our dignity," Razi said.
Considering the above, we don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that social unrest could be just around the corner in Greece, especially if Tsipras manages to somehow convince Syriza hardliners that compromising on pension cuts and the VAT is preferable to a Grexit.
Then again, saving face with voters means standing firm in the face a redenomination-fueled economic collapse which, as mentioned above, would effectively impoverish the entire country, an eventuality that could very well also lead to social upheaval.
The question then, would appear to be this: with Greece caught in an economic Catch 22, is a popular revolt now assured?
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Greece you fucking deserve it.
Not once did you prosecute the government cronies or GS criminals that got you where you're at.
You would rather arrest the reporter who published the full list of Lagard's Greek tax cheats.
The guy who removed the names got a walk instead of 20 years.
So a BIG FUCK YOU to Greece.
You are blaming the wrong entities.
Throw those pathetic Greek deadbeats out of Europe already.
Wolferi: Throw those pathetic Greek deadbeats out of Europe already.
Throw the parasitic banksterz out first.
They have enjoyed some of the most insane public spending. They think its all paid for with fucking magic. Shit is burning and they are holding the god damn matches.
Would you say the same to all Americans?
To those of us who worked all our lives and have never taken a dime in government assistance?
To those of us who hate what our government is doing but have no voice?
How do we stop what is so corrupt it is unstoppable when we know we will fare no better than Greece in the long run? We cannot. We can only prepare as best we can while we find happines and love now.
Perhaps some in Greece are not a fault either. I pity them and pray for them.
Absolutely agree. Obviously not all inclusive. But majorities put them where they are. The people protesting should have been and should be protesting their own government. Creditors are powerless to people who refuse their credit. Blaming them is like blaming the ground for your fall.
As you are aware of recent political developments the Greeks did actually protest their government a lot until they elected a new government, which is supporting their demands.
As an American, I say you are naive if you think your government is really interested in your best interests.
The only thing you can do is vote with your feet.
They are trying to figure out how to tax that.
Actually they do tax that. You pay taxes on estimated accrued gains... if they gains evaporate later, too fucking bad, we have your money.... Isold all the r.e. except one place in 2004-2007, so the atx bite on the exit will be very small.
I will start the process later this year. I pay $8k in ACA before I go to the doctor which so stupid expensive I never want to go again!,I am taxed in 3 states (better than many here) including one that also taxes mineral taxes and pay the vig on LPs and Corps in 2 states. I belong to a professional organization that costs every year, then I have to attend their over-priced CE classes. Then I have to pay the State for my professional icense and again attend CE classes... When I turn the spigot off, I am sure I can live off what is being sieved out of me by the system even before the big tax bites. I just wanna eat, sleep, go to the beach, trade and get laid... that is not USSA specific.
Look at real estate prices abroad, even to rent, if not buy. maybe not Vancouver though.
"You pay taxes on estimated accrued gains"
One does not pay taxes. One chooses to heed their demands to pay taxes.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission..
No such thing as a taxpayer either.
Go Fuck yourself and take your bullshit nonsense somewhere else. I choose to stop and red lights too you idjit
"I choose to stop and red lights too you idjit"
You lost me there. Could you please explain? Thanks.
Even the hags of Greece legend is coming out to protest!!!
NY State does it to people who move to a different state.
NY is like Greece, in a way.
"The only thing you can do is vote with your feet."
I have no bones with you, but that saying has become so threadbare and bane. If one goes, power takes your property while you must endure and struggle to adapt and find a place in a foreign land under a foreign tyranny that sees you, at best, as an interloper.
And should one desire to live in a foreign land with all the engendered animosity against the DC US rising to the surface?
The answer is to stand, state "NO!," and fight if need be--"Don't tread on me!"
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission..
Freedom is gold, guns and ground.
I would just move to another state.
The US hasn't turned into a toilet yet.
I have no bones with anyone except lying government officials (today anyway).
Everyone likes to have someone to blame their misery on and the US is a good target, not to say it doesn't deserve it sometimes.
I support the barter system by the way.
"...vote with your feet. They are trying to figure out how to tax that."
Check, Exit Tax: https://www.isla-offshore.com/second-passport/usa-expats-exit-tax/
Coming to an exceptional country near you...now you know why they want the 2nd amendment to go...
Will the FSA ever be self sustained and weened off the teet?
they better be careful with all that 'take their heads talk'. If the DOJ gets wind of it, they will be getting a supoena.... well, maybe its allowed to threated decapitaion, but don't mention a woodchipper. (shit, I just said woodchipper) (oops, said it again)
Wolferl is a troll. He is just spamming that same comment across all of the Greek articles - look at his comment history.
So... Making $7000/mo, working part time from home?
;-)
Just another progressive prostitute sexually serving his party to feed off table scrapes. Perhaps we should all help blow up his inflatable rainbow and fire up the turn table to play..
Electric Six - Gay Bar
/Snickering
..
Joeblowinvester; don't you mean "that not once did the polical cronies prosecute themselves?" You actually think the people had a say in this, why aren't any of the US bankers in jail, like Corzine, it's not my wish but it's a fact. Those in control are still in control.
no he meant -
"All you Molly Cyrus watchin, Kim Kardashian ass obsessed, overweight, and undereducated, repuclican/democratic voting debt slaves to the Federal Reserve fucking deserve it....cause you should have insisted the Constition be followed and Gold and Silver considered to be the only form of REAL Money backing the currency..."
ps: assholes dropping like flies...DEATH TO THE MONEYCHANGERS.
"JPMorgan Vice Chairman Jimmy Lee unexpectedly died on Wednesday, the company said. He was 62.
"It is with deep sorrow and a heavy heart that I inform you that our beloved friend and colleague, Jimmy Lee, unexpectedly passed away this morning," JPMorgan Chairman and CEO Jamie Dimon said in a statement." http://www.cnbc.com/id/102764430
To add to the joy, the crown prince of AmEx croaked on his plane back in May.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/american-express-ed-president-gilligan-dies-...
The Skipper was greatly saddened.
I didn't hear one Greek politician that ran for office say he would try to prosecute anyone for the shit that went on.
Just like I haven't heard one politician running in the US say he would clean house at the IRS, the SEC, or even the Justice Dept.
"let me control a nations money, and i care not who writes the laws..."
LOOK UP WHO MADE THAT STATEMENT...
there u will find your answer to why the Greeks and the rest of humanity are where they r..........
There is no global solution for local corruption.
There is no local solution to global corruption.
ISIS may disagree with you on that.
They hate mostly everyone.
"throw those pathetic greek deadbeats out of europe already"
You have been a member here for over 4 years, and I really don't remember seeing you comment during that time, at least not regularly, and yet now you show up at the beginning of every single thread related to this issue and post that same thing, in bold letters, every time, for the last week or so that I have noticed. Go take your lame trolling somewhere else. Its boring.
Joe, and it really, really, won't be much different here, except the cops here will be "armed-up" a lot better...
Yea but so will the citizens....mutural assurded destruction and all that
Well, if it ain't worth dying for, it sure as hell ain't worth living for...
"Greece you fucking deserve it."
Is that you BlankFiend???
yeah, all us serfs deserve what the MoneyChangers have unleashed....
they should have done what us brave Americuns did to the Fed - NOTHING.
how could they prosecute them if they were in power till 4 months ago? Really, that'd be quite new...
Fuck you too.
No, really.
Don't blame Greece, blame its politicians who were corrupt and easy to blackmail and bribe. For years they bought votes by creating useless public service jobs, gving unsustainable pay and pension increases and stifling business with bureacracy while never imposing tax collection. But then again has not America done the same with its proliferation of government jobs, fat public pensions and food stamps while raising the debt ceiling ad nauseam?
The true pain for Greeks still lies ahead but it will be cathartic for its people and didactic for the rest of us.
Greek citizens seem to be more content to blame the EU rather then a fellow Greek.
So in short what you are saying is that the Greeks were selling their vote in exchange for a cozy government non job in the public sector with early retirement and insane benefits. Then we blame the private sector in Greece for not paying taxes to fund the public sector which is acting more like an occupation army. I say cut them off and let that stupid pubic sector and early pensioners starve to death. The private sector there is already dead. But yeah, it is tax evasion. Not over taxation that killed the private economy. Moar TJN bulshit to follow.
Greece has gone broke before and the Greek government is calling the EU's bluff
on another bail-out. Greece has nothing to lose in this game of chicken but the EU
has everything to lose in a Greek default.
Really? Let's talk Tacheles. What does the EU have to lose in a Greek default? What is there to lose that is not already lost anyway. Debts can be written off or sunk into another bad bank black hole vodoo financial magic.
But Greece can't be weened off the EU teet.
Go have some more of that cake, try and keep and eat it at the same time!
FWIW.. there are job vacancies all across Germany. Even Greeks can and should apply.
No job for Tsirpas & Co. though. Their track record is dismal. Sorry, Zorba. You've been had and sold down the river yet again by your own.
Yet again....change the word in your post to "americans" and the "USA" instead of greece, and it will be appropriate within months.
I thought the subject was Greece, but the US is probably the reason no one else prosecutes banksters, because the US certainly doesn't.
If you want to know how serious the US is about banking crimes, just look at the # of prosecutions and convictions during the S&L shit vs now.
Replace Greeks with Americans, read it again, and there isn't much difference.
That's the spirit!
"Greek Citizens Threaten To "Take The Heads" Of "Grave Digging" Creditors"
get in line.
Molon Labe.
Instead of percent of GDP, how much are they spending per person? They're probably low compared to germany and others.
IIRC, there was a post on ZH last year showing that the poor average Greek has multiples of wealth compared to the average German.
Grr
Some times you just have to admit defeat and move on. Of course, for Greece, that was a couple 4 years ago.
The longer they wait to default, the worse off their economy will be, and the more of their capital will have been pillaged.
So, austerity is coming one way or the other. They should default now, and pimp out whatever they have to new creditors and live within what they can tax.
But, since everything is an exponential function, they are fucked. Just like the rest of the world.
pods
"Bank holiday" coming. That's where the bankers leave the country for a well derserved holiday before they end up in jail or worse like in Iceland.
Tanks will roll.
Now that's the right attitude. Take their heads off. And make sure you do the same for your neighbors house. And they do it for their neighbors house.
don't worry about the creditors, they will be protected at all cost.
"Striking a deal with creditors means accepting more austerity including pension cuts and a VAT hike."
Maybe it's because of my simple Amish upbringing but I do not understand this.
My friend Abe says that he'll lend me $100,000 to expand my buggy building company. He likes my plan to put wifi into the buggy because 'those damn kids and their rumspringa'.
I like Abe he is one step away from being our Bishop but if I do not pay him back I WILL be shunned.
What's different here? Was deception involved?
actually abe gave the $100K to your banker so he could have a bonus and patch up his books at the same time. You didn't get a nickle but now Abe is sending Bubba "Big Dick Troika" Johnson over to your place to collect what's owed from your old lady one piece of ass at a time.
I thought the Amish built their own buggies out back in the shed?
Actually the Amish build a nice Buggy. My wife has purchased a couple of them.
It goes more like this. Abe said that he's the guy to go to to link up lenders and borrowers, i.e. he runs First Amish Bank. I'm looking to make a return on my FRNs, so I bring in $115,000 and deposit it with him. You want your $100,000 loan, so my account has $115,000 listed on the ledger, he has $115,000 in cash. Lets say that this loan is given out in cash, that leaves $15,000 backing the $115,000 in deposits. When you spend that cash, it will eventually make its way to a bank, and the process will repeat itself. With a 10% reserve requirement, it would eventually work out to the books saying that people have $1.15 million, but there would be $115,000 backing it. All of that "money" that was created was created by the bankers, and you're paying them interest on it. It's a pretty neat little pyramid scheme if you're on the top.
To put it another way, the deception is that they're lending you FRNs or have FRNs listed that don't exist.
Worse than that...
When you 'sign on the dotted line' for a loan, YOU are the creator of the money in this insane, debt based world.
The banks get to charge YOU interest on something YOU CREATED!!
Nice work if you can get it!
Shunned? Oh no! Better pay Abe back and then some. Make him Bishop for life as well. Does Abe like little boys? You may be on the hook.
People better come to understand that we need to take the banker's heads before they take ours. Make no mistake, this is coming our way.
Exactly Doc, its total war, no prisoners taken, but our side doesn't get it.
No, they don't. But what they do get is that kicking in a door, throwing a flash bang into a crib, the blaming the baby for not getting out of the way, is not good. At least the portion of the population that is vaguely aware of things going on beyond the Kardashians.
Until people stop listening to "the story" and believing it, we are not there yet. It's hard when TPTB spend untold billions on the propaganda which endlessly repeats the lies that people are exposed to daily. To realize that 99% of what you hear and see in a day is designed to lie to you is a bitter pill. Perhaps the amazing thing is that as many are reaching this conclusion as are...
With the FSA on standbye, and the race/age/economic baiting in full force in the media, the shit will come from all directions.
The best way to quell the masses is to pit each of us against the other. I truly wonder if the good old US of A would cut government benefits first or completely screw those that can pay with further burdens.
Once NATO is finished teaching the Greeks what happens to people who give the banksters the finger, what remains of Mr. Lousis' house won't be worth much to the bank on the re-sale market.
If any Greeks are reading this:
If there's anywhere else you can go, go. And go now. Don't wait for Uncle Sugar to turn Greece into another Iraq and Athens into another Baghdad.
Otherwise, forget revolt. The murderers are bigger than you, they have untold man- and firepower to throw away, and will think nothing of wiping you off the face of the earth so rich thieves can buy Greek islands to give as love gifts to mistrresses who fancy themselvse classical scholars because they read Sappho in university, and Saudi princes can build pleasure domes to drink and whore out of sight of religious police.
They've done far worse to far better people. Ask any Israeli. The Samson Option is the only reason Israel still exists at all. Greece could have used one of those. Funny the arms merchants never thought to offer them one.
If you have a gun and bullets for it, good. You'll need a bullet for each of your loved ones unable to escape (women and children first), and then one more for yourself.
There is hope. Just not for Greece.
Remember the Greeks were very nasty fighters during WW2 and they will hesitate to do the same again for anyone stupid enough to start playing with tanks...besides what about those "democratic values" these stupid Americans keep preaching?
Lol. The Greeks surrendered after just two weeks to the German army in WWII. The Greeks are cowards and underachievers. Ever were and ever will.
So you like the Greeks then?
Americunts would roll over in 2 days
It is my understanding that you are German. You should not be too proud of german military exploits in the 40's, as
1. It's in incredibly poor taste
2. The german military sent millions of people to premature deaths
3. The mighty wermacht got it's ass kicked 6 ways from sunday by the soviet union.
Regrettably you are correct 100%. The German blitz on London for example was a grave mistake. Bombing civilian targets for the purpose of subjugating an entire population is never the trademark of a sophisticated military.
Same goes for the RAF bombing on cities like Dresden or the USAF bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
It was unnecassary and I hate wars.
Don't laugh too loud. The Germans stopped laughing once they had to start fighting a real army.
Some people never learn.
Hitler’s troops lost more lives in one day in Crete, Greece than died in any single day in the 15 months prior of conquering 11 other countries. Overall, one out of ten Greeks gave their lives during WWII. Adolf Hitler said, “The Greek soldier, above all, fought with the most courage,” and Winston Churchill said, “Hence, we will not say that Greeks fight like heroes, but that heroes fight like Greeks.”
you were sayin'
awwww did poor little woolfie lose one of his boot-licking ancestors to a pitchofork armed grandmother during the battle of crete?
cowards indeed.
Remember the Greeks were very nasty fighters during WW2 and they will not hesitate to do the same again for anyone stupid enough to start playing with tanks...besides what about those "democratic values" these stupid Americans keep preaching?
repeat this comment but change "greeks", or "greece" to "Americans" and "the USA". It will be appropriate within months.
Yes. Reality is painful. The vultures are circling in the skies. But then again, why sink monies into places when you need to enforce peace with private guards. Plenty of options to build harems or Hotel Greece.
Monies in pension funds are not in your control and will also be raided/depleted. Study China/elsewhere to see how peasant farms and pension funds eviscerated through minimal force but trickeries.
If you want to stay and fight, the only option is default and get temporary shelter from another Mafia branch (Russia ?). As the development of World events is not static, this is not a totally risky bet.
Remember Iceland the the UK putting them on their "terror list"? They are now the first country to climb back to pre 2008 economic levels....although the bankers for the 3 largest banks are still sitting in jail, but hey unemployment is is down....guess that QE/Keynes crap doesnt work when compared to Schumpeter's creative destruction.....burn down the fucking banks and start over....Tell the EU to screw and let France and German eat their bank losses....maybe next time they will do proper due dilligence instead of chomping at the bit for more fees on their loans.....
Pound salt ECB, IMF, Fed, and BOE.....
One of the long stated primary motives for creating a European Union was to bring the peoples of Europe together and to avoid any more wars. At least that's what its founders claimed.
With the growing undemocratic power and control-freakery being dictated by Brussels (and Germany) and events now in Greece, this aim is as dead as a dodo.
The EU is a disaster because it was founded on flawed principles. It has become a gravytrain for failed politicial elites from across Europe and assorted old commies and fascists.
Greece is a sideshow, regrettable, but a sideshow.
As long as the Franco-German axis holds, the EU is rather solid. I think the founders of a United Europe had Germany and France in mind when aiming for peace, not so much Greece, which only joined in the 80's anyways.
Further you write : "The EU is a disaster" I think it would be fair if you changed that to : I wish the EU was a disaster
and then you write : ..."and assorted commies and fascists" It is clear you are just mud slinging. ( and it is not even funny )
sorry misquoted you in the last part.
"It is clear you are just mud slinging."
Nope. Have you an idea of the huge amount of corporate lobbying that goes on inside Brussels? RT.com ran a documentary about this a while back. Have you heard Barroso (ex Maoist) and others being quoted saying this & that cannot be left to democracy?
The top brass in Brussels have little attachment to democratic member states and the events in Greece going on right now is evidence absolute of that.
Throw those pathetic bankers into a grease fire already.
Behead them. Pike the heads, hack their bodies to unrecognizable gore, sack their palaces, drive their car collections to the demo derby, use their planes to drop food to the poor.
Better read the "Illigal, illigitimate, and odious" report from the "Truth Committee on Public Debt", probably a bunch of financial legal experts who have just saved humanity from the terminal antics of the banksters and their hangers-on!
Don't you just love witnessing history in the making?
OT?:
Anyone see the last episode of Game Of Thrones?
Mace Tyrell as acting Master Of Coin is sent to Bravos to answer the Iron Bank's calling in of the loan to the kingdom. During that visit he mentions that a king once attempted to outlaw "usury".
I love the Greeks, but in the Jewish-European War 1939-44 they sided with the Jews. Now they (and the Europeans) are paying for it, Smarten up.
Don't wait for them to come, go to them first .
“They are going to turn us into murderers,”
we are finally in the endgame
They became murderers when they firebombed a bank during the first protest and cooked a few.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2010-05-05-greece-strike-crisi...
what the fuck did all of these people think when they were spending OPM borrowed from their hard working neighbors - it would go on until the fat lady got thin? Payback (literally) is a bitch.
If the Greeks are running a primary surplus, and the Greek Government is undercollecting on taxes on the wealthy, isn't the solution already in place?
Simply default on the debt, and run the country as before, but with better collection of taxes. Make them kick you out.
All of this drama speaks to other motives such as getting more free money that will not get paid back. What don't I understand?
The budget surplus is a bullshit made-up kakamania Greek lie for the consumption of EU and IMF.
Greeks can and will not collect or pay taxes and the overhaul of that system would take a generation.
That's what you don't understand. The Greeks and only the Greeks know their own ugly financial and economic truth. They ran out of OPM and there's not more where that came from.
The End.
OXI
Greece could cut pensions and remain in the euro for a while longer. Or they could refuse to cut and be forced out of the euro. In which case pensions would be paid in some currency probably worth a lot less than the euro. So it looks like their pensions are toast no matter what they do.
In theory, the Greek government could invalidate all foreign debts but still continue to pay the Greek pension funds. And if Greece managed its finances well, it is just possible that they could avoid lots of inflation when they exit the euro. But somehow I suspect that isn't going to happen...
there's maybe a lifeline by June 30th .. another 7 billion which won't last long
no way there's going to be a 3rd bailout now
either way, this shit is going down and hard
>contained<? we will see as things unfold....
Pension at 833e? "Poverty line" at 655e? East EU countries dont even have half of that! And elsewhere in the world billions of people work for less than 2e/h and are happy to have a job how about that? Poor fucking greek pensioners, well I have a news for you: If you cant live from 833e, then just die already.
A billion is different than a million. It helps to travel a little. The real world is different compared to the one offered by FOX and CNN!
But, FOX told me the other stations are LIARS!
That is right. In Bosnia and Serbia the average salary stands at 375 Euro. Pension ranges from 120 to 200 Euro. The Greek are suffering but it is nothing compared to these countries.
But but, ole yellen says one more quarter maybe two before we can start raising interest rates and everything is rosy again.
Greece - set the standard for the entire world. Start public lynchings of bankers & creditors. Do it!!
UNFUCK GREECE!!
UNFUCK AMERICA!!
The idiot greedy bankers and elites have set the stage for a new era of revolutionary action.
A platform and and its planks for a Restored American country and people:
1) End the Unconstitutional fraudulent-reserve banking and the Federal Reserve cabal.
2) Put governmnet back in the Constitutional box where they belong.
3) Remove the UN from our soil and demolish all of their edifices.
4) Root out and put to trial and Retribution the criminals of the DC US, from the town hall to the Potomac swamp, that are currently criminally occupying the American country, and oppressing the American people.
5) All dual-citizens must leave--"return."
6) All Jews must swear a public oath of loyalty to the American country, and the American people, or "return."
7) All so-called "illegals" must do same, or leave the American country--"Part or Depart."
8) No government pol or crat may be paid, except for by their efforts in a business of their own. They must acquiesce to yearly audits and have all financial records posted live on the Internet each day.
9) All graft and treason is punishable by guillotine, with the sentence immediately applied.
10) The Constitution amended with two amendments: a) That an act or situation without a victim, is not a crime. b) No party may loan out the deposits, or other held in trust, without the owner's written consent. Loans of said funds without permission, or without having said funds in one's legal possession, is fraud, and elevated to that of a high-crime against the American country and people, and is to be punishable by guillotine.
11) Repeal the 16th. and 17th. amendments.
12) Remove the "except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted" clause from the 13th. amendment.
I now humbly RFC (Request for Comments).
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission.
Just got off the phone with UPS.
Only $324.53 to ship my guillotine to Greece.
Blade must go separately, or be locally sourced.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission..
Guillotines are "carbon-credit" eligible.
Saudi Arabia is closer to Greece than the US. They've got a good track record with the chopping technique. What do they actually use in Saudi?
Mine's "Made In America," by an American with American enhanced French technology.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission..
K. Chris C.'s Law: "The amount of guillotines in America will double every 18 months."
The Greek nor the rest of the Western Balkans has good memories of Islam (or with Germany....) so I think they will pass.
When I read the Headline "Taking Heads" your posts were the first I looked for. I think the guillotine mfg. business has good prospects.
The Greek sheeple are a stirring.
Too bad they are not as well armed as we Americans.
Resistance begins with "NO!" Revolutions begin when "NO!" is violence backed. Insurrections begin when "NO! is ignored.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission..
"You may take me after you take my guns."
Look ma, I made a dupe.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission.
Really? Retire at 55 on a full pension after a cushy government job your whole life - and DAMMIT, the creditors are the problem!
Too bad your government does not look after you the same way.
Sooner or later you run out of other people's money. I wish they'd try even less, we'd all be happier (except the leeches).
And besides, I'm against slavery - which as history has repeatedly shown is pretty much required to maintain the life you're suggesting.
Dear Greece,
We can send you supplies without Obama passing TPP trade deal. We get all kinds of free shit from Home Depot, Walmart, and Lowes. What do you need? We will ship it to you at no charge. Fill out your list, products will be listed as free sample. winks
Who has Nike's head? (Winged Goddess of Victory)
http://api.ning.com/files/dzgn-7zYFvEN5WuYvz2hHprgYC2jDFr-bCspflZ4bedtkL...
So what happened in this afternoon's meeting with Tsipras and Putin this afternoon?
"The average Greek pension is 833 euros a month. That's down from 1,350 euros in 2009"
1350 euros.....In 2010, the average pension in Portugal was 397 euros! Proud people, being f*cked by Troika and bankers just like everyone else but still honors their debts, regardless of how crooked the lenders are.
You can leave, and Portugal should too, but first honor your debts!
if not, it's also cool but then keep the bullshit lazy justification to yourselves!