This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Greece Told To Have A Deal Ready Before Monday Meeting; Tsipras Submits Revised Plan With No Pension Cuts
Update: the farce must go on because according to Bloomberg the "final final" Greek proposal never made it, and was, ahem, lost in tranmission: EU HAS RECEIVED NO NEW PROPOSAL FROM GREECE YET: EU DIPLOMAT - BLOOMBERG
* * *
With just under 24 hours until Monday's final summit after which even JPMorgan now agrees the ECB will be forced to use a nuclear option and limit or cut Greek ELA thus imposing capital controls as a "negotiating tactic", earlier today both France and Germany told Greece it must have a reform deal agreement with the Troika finalized and delivered before a crucial leaders’ summit between Athens and its creditors on Monday; in other words before trading opens on Monday.
According to the FT, with the Greek cabinet meeting on Sunday to consider compromise proposals, François Hollande and Angela Merkel both telephoned Alexis Tsipras, the prime minister, to remind him he needed a “staff level” agreement with the European Commission, IMF and ECB ahead of the summit.
They told him the summit was not for “negotiations” — which anyway would be all but impossible in a forum including all 19 eurozone members — and urged him to reach a deal with the institutions.... If a deal is reached, the two leaders said the parties could then start discussing a third bailout at the summit. France is believed to be open to discussing debt relief and restructuring for Athens, a top priority for Mr Tsipras, whose radical leftwing government won office in January setting Greece on a collision course with its creditors.
As a result, the Greek cabinet has been summoned to a meeting at Tsipras’ Maximos Mansion residence on Sunday morning for a last-ditch meeting to hash out the government’s strategy. Here they are expected to discuss how Mr Tsipras can bridge his two seemingly intractable electoral mandates: to end austerity and block further cuts in spending while also satisfying creditors’ demands for reform to keep Greece in the Eurozone.
And while the Greek negotiating position is one where any spending-cut compromise will be seen as a defeat for Tsipras - just yesterday the Minister of State Nikos Pappas used an interview with the country’s Ethnos newspaper to reiterate the government’s firm opposition to cuts to pension plans or wages - moments ago the Greek Prime Minister presented Greece's proposal for a deal during phone talks on Sunday with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, French President Francois Hollande and EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, according to Reuters.
"The prime minister presented the three leaders Greece's proposal for a mutually beneficial agreement that will give a definitive solution and not postpone addressing the problem," it said in a statement.
Bloomberg has the bulk of the proposed details:
- Greek plan to unlock bailout funds includes proposal to eliminate early retirement options starting from Jan. 1, 2016, a Greek government official says, asking not to be named.
- Plan includes levy on companies with more than €500,000 in annual profits
- Plan includes increase in “solidarity levy” for individuals earning more than €30,000/yr
- Creditors ask permanent fiscal measures equal to 2.5% of GDP, Greece proposes measures equal to 2%/GDP; proposes to cover difference of 0.5%/GDP with “administrative measures”
- Greek govt would agree to target demanded by creditors for 1%/GDP primary budget surplus
- Greek govt insists on 3 bands for VAT rates; creditors want 2 bands; Greek govt proposes to move more products to higher band of 23%, in order to cover fiscal gap
- Greek govt has proposed zero deficit clause, debt break for Greek budget; clause would include automatic spending cuts in case threshold is breached
- Greek govt would be willing to adopt additional fiscal measures, if agreement with creditors includes commitment to debt relief
A quick frame of reference: in the US, Obama's "fairness doctrine" tax hits above $250,000; in Greece the "solidarity levy" fairness threshold is €30,000.
In summary: promises for higher revenues (which is problematic considering the Greek track record and the fact that it just spent 5 months haggling with the Troika instead of implementing even one actual reform) and none of the pension cuts so demanded by the Troika. Why are the country's pensions such a sticking point? To paraphrase the IMF's Olivier Blanchard from his blog post last weekend:
Why insist on pensions? Pensions and wages account for about 75% of primary spending; the other 25% have already been cut to the bone. Pension expenditures account for over 16% of GDP, and transfers from the budget to the pension system are close to 10% of GDP. We believe a reduction of pension expenditures of 1% of GDP (out of 16%) is needed, and that it can be done while protecting the poorest pensioners.
For Tsipras pension cuts are clearly a non-starter because as we said last week "he would almost certainly be promptly swept from power as Syriza renegs on its most solemn pre-election vow."
This is what else we said:
With Greek tax revenues imploding and the hope of even a 1% primary surplus long gone as a result of the Greek economy grinding to a halt. Which in turn means that in order to be sustainable (and whatever happened to the IMF's "sustainable" 2022 Greek debt/GDP forecast anyway), Greece has no choice but to cut both wages and pensions.
Only the Greek government knows that such a move would be the start of the endgame, and will lead to either another technocratic government, a puppet of the Troika, or to an even more extremist government, this time from the ideological right.
Overnight, Germany's FAZ agreed with that assessment, noting that Greece creditors estimate country’s budget gap of €2b to €3.6b this month. The shortage won’t allow Greek government to repay IMF (even with a new injection of cash by the IMF) unless it cuts pensions, salaries as expenses amount to €2.2b by end of June.
Based on the "final final" Tsipras proposal, these cuts are still missing,which in turn is a basis for a "non-starter" response by the Troika.
As a result, Greece just played its final bluff. And now, as Yanis Varoufakis also wrote in in Germany's Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, Angela Merkel faces "a stark choice" ahead of the crucial summit of European leaders in Brussels on Monday.
In other words the Greek parliament has washed its hands of the Greek fate, and a Grexit - if it happens - will be blamed on Merkel, if only in Greece.
As a final reminder, with the fate of Greece clear to pretty much everyone, the only question is who is served with the blame for the unwinding of the "unbreakable" European monetary union. The game of final posturing continues.
»
- 78280 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
All the money that has been withdrawn from banks leads to a cash economy and lower tax collections. So the Greek budget deficit continues to grow.
Will Merkel take the risk that the $54 trillion in Deutsche Bank derivatives will survive Grexit?
I've given Angela our most solemn assurances that the United States stands ready to backstop all 54 trillion in derivatives should she need our help.
I detect a growing trend, the elite want those pensions, and they'll destroy any country to get them...
This isn't the first country they sought to destroy the pensions of...
Obviously Pensions were nothing but a ponzi-shceme from the word go & the wealthy never intended to pay them.
Pensions = Future promises.
Money= Debt
Debt= Future promises
Therefore, pensions = money
They need to find MORE money. They are coming for it.
Who cares about blame, just Grexit already. Stay in, get out, the austerity will be the same. At least you'll control your own destiny with a Grexit.
And it's pretty amazing to find a political party actually sticking to its guns about pensions.
As opposed to say the Republicans? As soon as they got elected they immediately stabbed their constituents in the back and supported Obama on every one of his initiatives.
Shit like this will help Hillarity get elected and give back control of both houses to the Demonicrats.
The language of these shysters is so bastardized and meaningless. How many "final" summits will there be?! It seems I've been reading the words "ultimatum", "final", and "deadline" for over a year now.
Oh yea... I forgot... this game is called, "Kick The Can".
keeps the eurocrats employed...
"The dog ate my proposal"
Syriza knows if they touch those pensions and up the VAT tax they will be removed from gov't in a heartbeat. They are politicians and will protect their position at all costs. The EU and IMF will find this out early Monday morning.
UPDATE: ""New Groundbreaking German Proposal JUST ANNOUNCED""
SIGN Our "German Deal", And We Vill Throw In 3 Free Complementary Beers At The Next OktoberFest!!!
3 free beers at the Oktoberfest? Too much, you have no clue how much a beer at the Oktoberfest costs. One is enough.
Throw those pathetic Greek deadbeats out of Europe already.
Greece just played its final "Bluff" - Uhm, you wish it was a Bluff
Grease ball
Greece has consulted with GOD. I have given them 9 lives in order to deal with the greedy Europeans.
This is prelude to the same pageant across the rest of the Europlex, culminating in the USSA financial shithole. If you're tired of "Can-Kicking" now, just wait until American bankster pathocrats start squealing and seizing assets from the American people. Barring some sort of blessed event, this destructive shit can be made to drag on for DECADES.
We must meet to discuss the non-negociations!
I'll take "Repayments for a Whole Bunch", Alex
They can use Game Theory to predict how many will be killed in the food riots. Using math to try and solve a political problem will never work.
Not to mention all the filthy tourists. Bunch of drunk Australian teenagers puking everywhere. What a disgusting spectacle.
Oktoberfest in Munich is a tourist trap.
True. There are hundreds of really traditional beer festivals around Germany you should go visit, don´t visit the Oktoberfest in Munich if you want a authentic German experience.
Well yes and no. Oktoberfest is one of those bucket list things. I attended 3 and had a good time (I think) but you are correct there are hundreds of really great large, medium, and small, wine and beer fests all over Germany and they are a blast. At least they used to be. I haven't been since the late 80's. I do remember back in the early 70's we used to strap those big liter mugs to our belts. Some guys would have 10 or 12 wrapped around there waists dancing on the tables. You can imagine the carnage when these shit faced folks would fall into each other, or off the table, and the bloody mess those broken mugs would make. I do mean a bloody mess. I saw it more than once. They started cracking down on mug theft a while back but back in the day guys would have huge collections of pilfered mugs. I personally had over 50.
The next can kick is right in the text.
The "NEXT BAILOUT can be discussed".
Who said the money spigot is shut?
Ctrl P all around.
Carry on. Extend and Pretend......
Well, if the Greek electorate does boot Syriza, who will they then support to come in place of them? Answer: Nobody, or at least no party that isn't prepared to Lie to get in, since there is no party that can come up with a viable, believable solution to this mess. This is all what happens when tax evasion and gov't corruption is rampant and endemic for as far back as anyone can remember. Syriza had no basis to make the promises it did, and the Greek citizens had no basis to believe Syriza to fulfill the promises of pension and wage preservation. Pitiful, but very predictable. They deserve what they tolerate.
There is a solution, but nobody wants to make the first move, because they fear for their lives. It's going to take someone with serious backbone to stand up and say what needs to be said, and then they will have to spend their remaining days looking over their shoulder, watching for errant nailguns and snowblowers.
the hidden clue is the meeting at his mansion. hmmm. a mansion, surely his housing needs represents the average greek. he is just another fucking politician, basically two faced muthrafuks representing wealth with a for the people line of bullshit. greece has been progressively socialized to point of crumble. they need a reset starting with french style revolution icelandic in nature minus the repayment. only question is to the greeks: do you have a backbone that functions.
"The dog also wrote my proposal."
My karma just ran over your dogma :-p
Day of reckoning finally arrives for bulls.
How about the dog puked all over my proposal.
Why Grexit when the 'markets' can be juiced further with more Kabuki Theater and deal rumors?
JS:
You have to actually HIT infinity before the asymptote and the curve meet...
I think Syriza sticking to its guns about pensions is equal parts scruples and not wanting to hang from nearest street lamp.
There's not going to be Pensions either way. That's the point. All the money they keep paying back goes straight to the banks. None of it goes to Greece. What's the point from where the Greeks are standing?
"Shit like this will help Hillarity get elected and give back control of both houses to the Demonicrats."
Which is exactly what the vast majority of Republicans are there to do.
I think it is cute how we start talking about differences between Democrats and Republicans.
Sort of like using an abacus or 8-track or something.
Excellent!
how about an asshole is an asshole.
What? Again no Grexit or Lehman weekend?
So much for the usual ZH scaremongering, and starting tomorrow I guess we'll see another barrage of "deadlines" and "Grexits" and other useless 'Grey Swan' predictions here on ZH.
...and in the end it's not different at all, and everything stays more or less the same...
On July 23, 1914, Austria presented to Serbia a list of demands which were intentionally unacceptable, known as “The July Ultimatum”, insisting that Serbia agree to it by 5 pm, July 25. All of Europe worried & convened & dithered, knowing it would be rejected & rejection would trigger war - which it did.
101 years later, I am feeling an incredible sense of déjà vu…
tic toc. come august we will be rolling the whole mess up in the carpet and putting down hardwoods...
George Carlin made that exact point long ago.
Truly a visonary.
Go back and look at his other memes.
Meanwhile, it looks as though it's getting hotter in TX.
http://investmentwatchblog.com/texas-mobilizes-state-militia-against-u-s-federal-troops-wants-fed-hands-off-everything-texas-including-its-gold/
Texas should secede while they can. Texas was set up as a Republic as indicated on the state flag, and they have enough resources for their own food, housing, medicine, education, commerce, etc., and they can buy whatever else they need. The Constitution is openly ignored in DC anyway so there's no point in taking the Feds seriously, other than organized gangs with badges. They are a lawless entity unto themselves and only see the US population as a source for easy money. The Crips and Bloods take better care of their own kind than the Feds do us.
Look for the exit sign while you're ahead of the game, Texas.
Looks like the trolls are already up and at work.
You're calling yourself a troll?
Vive le Québec libre!
Now would be the worst possible time to do something like that. Obama would probably die of multiple orgasms at the chance to murder every white man in Texas.
Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and possibly part of Colorado should all consider seceding...just to force the Federal Government to reign themselves in.
Texas will never let go of Uncle Sam's titty!
George Carlin and they want your Social Security
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALlzClE67os
And I say they will just kill it with inflation and inadequate COLAs tied to bogus inflation data.
The Man never exaggerated - he was right about everything -
There should be a statue on the Median in front of the Beacon to mark his hallowed ground
It's really over - Greece & Ukraine are testing grounds for the coming debacle everywhere
At this point very few will escape unscathed
Murder by Neglect is the universal policy!
Agree. The Trend is to raise retirement ages.
In the US it's a range (59-67). It's similar in most of the EU, but Greece is the crazy anomaly, with its retirement at age 52.
Given this number (52) plus the fact that youth unemployment is sky high already, raising the retirement to 55 or 60 or beyond, would only raise youth unemployment even more. It would then really highlight the Employment Crisis, which is the 900 lb Gorrila that the Troika and Greek government is not addressing.
The fiat Ponzi Debt aside, you know that something is REALLY ROTTEN, when unemployment hits 30% or more. At that point, you need wholesale changes in Government and Banking, or you risk revolution.
revolution... lol... fool....
humans whine when they have not enough to mimic the suggested reflect exemple inside the television, in the reel reel world of the streets, as long you have food in the stomac, you are pleased to :
1) shut the fuck up
2) go fuck yourself
if you do not apply, you get silenced, method depending of mentalities in concerned country, with help of some brothers like fra-ger-usa-uk, for exemple...
revolution...lol... a population abandonning cats & dogs in summer just to get comfy on beach & camping.... you want em to take risk of getting hurt in civilian unrest ?
MOUHAHAHAHAHAHHA....
you...are...an...idiot...
a magical idiot....
Wonder under the sun - bisonians, haven't u been warned/told long ago?!
https://youtu.be/rsL6mKxtOlQ
It;s not just the pensions...they will exprpriate any funds they can get their hands on....they just can't stop helping themselves to the mony of others....until we stop them.
"if a deal is reached, discussions can begin for a third bailout"
HA. holy shit. reach a deal to pay us our interest, so we can lend you more money to pay the interest on the loans we already gave you. Im sorry, but this is patently absurd. Any group of people who wants to stay in the euro bad enough to agree to this kind of shit deserves whatever happens.
High finance version of payday loans, hopefully Greece can use titles to Zeus and Aphrodite as collateral.
or otherwise "...the parties could then start discussing a third bailout at the summit"
but, just a reminder, the greek government is not asking for an nth bailout but a "long term settlement". Therein the sticking point... (the "creditors" would happily kick the can ad infinitum through "bailouts", i.e eternalisation of debt)
Its all theater. Greece ain't leaving and either they get an extension or some other creative bullshit gets done that kicks the can down the road.
yes, theater, but why is leaving not in the script?
Elites would like to buy up greece cheap with low population before the vast millions realize heat is where the value will be.
but why is leaving not in the script?
1) The markets would trade LIKE Potugual and Spain are next?
2) The unintended consequenses could/would create a crisis of biblical proportions in the Finacial markets...derivatives, currency, equities.
To risk the social fiber of the world is not worth it. It will all be covered up by just printing more fiat. Much safer and easier to do just that....and that is what they will do.
and that is what they will do.
*and this is what they are already doing...
fixed it for ya.
Re: "To risk the social fiber of the world is not worth it." <-- EXCUSE ME, BUT THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE DOING. BANKSTERS WOULD HAVE THE DEBT AND NATION-DESTRUCTION CONTINUE INDEFINITELY. THEY WILL NOT STOP UNTIL THEY CONTROL EVERY COUNTRY, ALL THE RESOURCES, ALL THE PEOPLE, SUBJUGATE THE ENTIRE WORLD. THIS IS THE ESSENCE OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER AND AGENDA 21. TO GET OUT NOW WOULD BE THE IDEAL WAY TO PREVENT THIS CANCER FROM GROWING FURTHER.
it will happen eventually, but youre probably right, this isn't it. There has been so much can kicking across the entire planet that there is no reason to think it can't happen again. the farce continues.
I feel like I'm reading the same news reports every week, and lately every day. they vary slightly in wording, and it is exhausting to try and find the difference.
You ARE reading the same news reports every week.
Every time there is a deal rumor, the 'markets' rise, yet fail to retrace when the rumor is proven false.
So we get rinse and repeat for as long as it works.
perpetual motion machines
cold fusion
zero point energy
global finance
I can't help thinking that the whole Euro project was designed to fail from the outset, to force fiscal union. Obamacare seems to be the same type of construct to force the implementation of single payer. The Statists never miss a trick. It bears repeating, "The State is not your friend".
I agree with this although the idea of the EU came from Wall Street not from the "statists."
Greece is the perfect example of how "the State" appears powerless before global capital flow.
Same goes for the "war on terror" would appear.
No one wants a "well run State" it seems just a bunch of wars and the printing press
Wall Street and "statists" are one in the same. The statists are simply at the tip of the useful idiot spear. Wall Street is the shaft.
The wars are to "protect the right to counterfeit, aka print money". With that concept bankers and state are one and the same. Fascists.
The EU was propelled forward when Alfred Herrhausen was assassinated. He was anti-EU, which could not have happen without Germany. If you think this was just routine murder think twice..
Herrhausen fell victim to a sophisticated roadside bomb shortly after leaving his home in Bad Homburg on 30 November 1989. He was being chauffeured to work in his armoured Mercedes-Benz, with bodyguards in both a lead vehicle and another following behind. The bomb had been hidden in a saddle bag on a bicycle next to the road that the assassins knew Herrhausen would be traveling in his three-car convoy. In the bag was a 7 kg bomb that was detonated when Herrhausen's car interrupted a beam of infrared light as it passed the bicycle. The bomb targeted the most vulnerable area of Herrhausen's car – the door where he was sitting – and required split-second timing to overcome the car's special armour plating. The bomb utilized a Misznay-Schardin mechanism.
War is business to fascists...hence the dumping of soldier remains into landfills...this is now just 'old news'. Business as usual.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/air-force-dumped-a...
This all reminds me of one of those telenovelas from south of the border. Absent of course the beautiful leading lady. Unless you regard Angela Merkel as such.
The globalists want the EU to fall, so it will.
Tomorrow is the 22nd, the day the phoenix catches fire"Will Merkel take the risk that the $54 trillion in Deutsche Bank derivatives will survive Grexit?"
The next time someone quotes these stupid derivative statistics I'm gonna puke. Of what the fuck real importance is a promise on a promise on a promise??? Let all these exotic financial instruments implode, nationalize the banks so that the poorest depositors are protected up to insurable limits and let the fucking oligarch scum eat cake. It's all imaginary wealth anyway.
LET THE MONEYCHANGER CUNTS AND THEIR SYCHOPHANTS TAKE THEIR LOSSES!!! LIKE LINCOLN AND KENNEDY TRIED, ANY SOVEREIGN CAN ISSUE NEW CURRENCY AND DESTROY THE MONEY POWER. IF SYRIZA IS TRULY CONCERNED ABOUT THE FUTURE OF GREECE IT WILL REPUDIATE THE EURO AND HONOR THOSE PENSIONS IN DRACHMA. WHATEVER THAT DRACHMA MAY BE WORTH IT...
I'll bet after the banks implode over Greece, everyone will be far better off.
The reason Greece cannot be allowed to leave is because it would set precedent and offer a withdrawal path for Spain and others. If the rules were established, others would be able to strategize to get even more benefit than the first guinea pig. It is much more likely that the entire EU will implode simultaneously, instead of individual members departing one by one. We're probably at least 5 years away from such outcome. The EU printing presses aren't even running full steam. Their currency still trades above par. It has to drop at least to the point where it was before Saddam switched his "food for oil" USD denominated account to Euros (which is 0.8/1), then we'll know the game is on. For the time being it's all circus.
"Solidarity levy" - nearly as disingenuous as the infamous "stability levy".
Bankster theft and skullduggery by any other name.
I can see it now during those intense salary negotiations.
Company: We'd like to pay you 30K Euro a year.
Prospective Employee: That's too much, can we make it, say..., 29,999 Euro a year.
Fuck the Troika with a Trident.
yaaawn.
Both sides bluffing. Neither ready to pull the trigger and blow the whole shebang to shit.
The future results are pretty much a lock and the only thing these mostly unelected bureaucrats are fucking with at this point is Time. Time and...well everyone unfortunately subjugated to their madness.
It's 18 minutes to Monday morning here. Won't be long until we see.
Que the dramatic music.
Dun dun dunnn!
Where are you? It's 10:15 am EST, USA. It's 5:15 pm in Greece and 4:15pm in Germany.
He's in Australia. I've asked him previously to provide the lottery results for the U.S. and Europe before we get them, but he has refused to help.
It is not on Tinky, it would be wrong.
Read this instead, the weekly Hussman.
http://www.hussman.net/wmc/wmc150622.htm
Thanks. Hussman is one of the few fund managers whose opinions on the market I respect. Like him, I left a fair bit of money on the table by underrating the potential duration and height of the current bubble. In my case, I simply exited the market early.
No regrets, though, as I have slept soundly, and expect, as Hussman suggests, that it won't be long before the ledger begins to look very different.
I've been reading him for years, Ed Harrison from CW put me on to him. Yes, it's been a long time since Lehmans, but his analysis is solid on merits, the timing business is always the catch. We all know that. But I love how he can relate historically his themes and demonstrate exactly the issue he discusses, with the data through time.
As long as you retained the money to buy at the bottom, the prudence will pay you back still Tinky. What to buy at that point is the big question (not hft stawks). ;-)
Among other things, there's a nice piece of property in NZ that I've had my eye on, but the immigration hurdles are rather discouraging...
NZ is a real nice choice, but there are a lot of active volcanoes all over the north Island, and the south Island is basically Norway v2.0, and both Islands are prone to plate margin earthquakes. Too many volcanoes up north for me, some are really nasty ones when they blow, so the South Island would be my choice. But Tasmania might be an option for you to consider, if NZ emigration is an impediment. Tas is a big island, low pop, green and lush, and much cheaper than the mainland in most respects, if you can tolerate radical greenies up the wazoo, i.e. why it's cheaper. ;-) And Melbourne is pretty close across Bass Strait, by flight, or ferry.
I've spent several months exploring NZ over the past couple of years, and quickly gravitated to the South Island. I've got some good friends in Christchurch, so am well aware of the earthquake issue!
I'm open-minded though...
Taswegians are cnuts.
Many years ago I stayed for a few weeks with the mother of my ex-wife (hereinafter referred to as The Beast) in a small town on the north coast. Her house was pretty much opposite the one and only pub in town.
So I thought I'd take myself over there for a couple of libations of an afternoon. I walk in and there are three or four punters in the bar and a couple of barmen in attendance. I stand there nice and polite and wait to be asked what I'd like. The barmen ignore me. A local shuffles up to the bar and a barman wanders past me and fills his order, then he goes and polishes a few glasses before coming up to me and askes "Whaddya you want?". I ask for a glass of the local draught and stand there drinking it. Once it's finished I stand in front of the empty glass and go through the whole procedure again. Two beers down and it's time to cross back over the road.
Next day, the same thing. Next day, the same, and the next, and the next, etc.
A couple of Sundays later and there was a "function" in the large back bar. During those days it was 'dry' on Sundays and the bars were not allowed to open, but these clever Taswegians had a cunning plan. Once simply goes to one end of the long bar and purchases a ticket, then one goes to the opposite end of the bar and redeems the ticket for a drink. Fncking ridiculous but that was their system.
Shortly before chucking-out time the Mother In Law hands me some cash and asks me to get the last round in. I go to the end of the bar and hand over the cash in exchange for a bunch of tickets, walk to the other end of the bar and hand them to the self same barman who has just sold them to me, "We're closed" he says.
I was a bit surprised as I had just handed him the cash 10 seconds before hand. I pointed this out to him and expressed the opinion that if they were indeed closed he should not really have taken the money in exchange for the now useless tickets. Possibly this barperson had bankers in the family but he sticks to his position, won't redeem the tickets for drinks and won't refund the payment for the tickets.
Now I am a calm sort of person, up to a point, and I was at it, seething. Whilst I assumed an outwardly calm appearence The Beast had spotted I was about to blow my top and came over with the rest of the family to see what the issue was. The barman looks at them "Oh, are you with them?". Once it was established I was attached to a local family drinks were immediately procured.
Taswegians, bunch of cnuts. They like to claim how friendly they are but that's just so they can extract any cash you have on you. If they think you might be thinking of setting up camp in their reservation they turn very nasty, very fast.
Kiwis are totally dfifferent. Go to NZ instead.
Interesting anecdote! Thanks.
***
Is this the Moment? Yes the Moment; when Merkel and the rest of the European Union says I love you Conor, as they are locked into position in this battle? Will this be the moment I see Greeces final swing, and then the EU speaperates Greeces Head from its body, and the light beam begins to pours out? The Landscape which in sues next; from the view of an eagle crossing the great divide! Oh what a great sight it truly must be, to go in such a fashion. In the End! THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!
Squeeze the Greek people to pay German banksters? They want every drop of blood eh? I'm surprised by the Greek restraint. I would have told the banksters to fuck off a long time ago.
When you are holding a 2 and 5 and decide to bluff. You then must bluff all the way until the end to have any chance of winning. It's Smart to let Germany have to make the call. I think they will fold.
Spain, Italy and Portugal are watching.
Ah, the age old problem.
How to have one's cake, and eat it, too.
Must suck to be a politician when you actually have to make a real decision, today, and not have the shit collapse on the next guy.
In retrospect, Kennedy was the last one I can think of, here, that had something like that at his doorstep.
Did 07-08 reach that level? They won't tell us.
just default and leave the eurozone, and for that matter the eu, and snuggle up to the BRICs.
Seems like a far better future for Greece than continuing to be fucked by the ECB and IMF, losing more and more sovereignty, and being flooded with north african immigrants because it would be rayciss to not willingly become a minority in your own homeland.
Etc.
Not that anything will come of it, but here's a juicy little tidbit on
Baron Rothschild indicted in France over fraud caseThe article said his scheme" was designed to reduce inheritance tax" and that is illeagal.
Maybe in Europe, but here in the US?
I once called a radio station that had two financial advisers inducing people to call and sign up with them. They promised they could put " mom's" assets in trusts, so it would be available to heirs, wilst forcing the state to pick up her nursing home and medical bills. You know, because she is broke.
I asked, on air, if they did not feel shame in this?
Not one bit! It's the law. And we are just using it to maximum advantage. Why should wealthy people have to pay with hard earned and saved dollars, when the poor get a free ride?
Moral hazard there, bitchez!
The .gov has caught on to the scam and under The unAffordable Care Act .gov will go after any and all tangible assets when mom goes on any form of Medicaid. They will go back years searching for the money.
Your only choice now is to put it all in precious metals or land outside the country where they can't get their grimy little hands on it.
Don't put it in any banks outside the country cause then you'll have to report it to the IRS.
And, please don't lecture anyone on moral hazard when it comes the Fed .gov. Here we have a corrupt Federal Government that spends trillions on worthless wars while it lets the country rot.
If the Federal government is willing to allow millions of people for multiple generations to live off the work of others with no qualms while calling it wealth redistribution, then why is it wrong for a family to try and save what's left of a pittance of the hard earned savings of a mom?
@NoPension,
So, if I understand you correctly, you begrudge the poor using the same strategy as the rich. For you to think they get a free ride is misguided. If you use a ratio of tax dollars paid, the rich pay far less than the fleecing of all others. It's the wealthy getting the free ride as they steer the lawmaking and have access to loopholes your average J6P doesn't. Can you say corporate welfare?
A perfect example is if you had access to & used an MCRA with your employer. The tax exempt allowable was quickly chipped away for the peeps. You think that affects the rich?
Divide & conquer...works every time.
I just asked a question. I don't begrudge anyone anything. That being said, there is NO moral hazard anymore. The FSA is not gratefull, it feels entitled.
And that goes for the very top ( MIC, money buying politics) too the very bottom ( useless eaters that fog a mirror, and therefore feel entitled)
And oh yeah, Grope this.
Your post clearly pitted the poor to the "rich having to pay for."
So your bitch should be placed squarely on the LAW & the loopholes therein. Who makes em?
You said fuckall about the rich FSA.
Chew on that. Please remove your dentures first.
Dude, he was quoting what a couple of financial guys said. He just forgot quote marks.
Although I happen to agree with the sentiment.
You provide an illustration.
Go to any cancer center. As long as Government is paying, nothing is too good for Granny. As soon as the doctor tells the client to pass the cup… well Granny is dead meat.
Saw a 20/20 one time. Auntie was hooked up to every machine known. Brain dead, in her 70' s or 80's. Multiple doctors said so. It was $100,00 a month, for the space and care. The family just could not bring themselves to let auntie go. Guess who was paying?
And for those snarky. My 44 yo brother was in the same condition. Had good private insurance. We, as his family, never the less, made the hard decision. It was, the hardest thing I ever had to be a part of. But, it was the right thing to do.
And that NoPension is why you use the LAW & create a trust/HIPAA/Living will to specifically state YOUR wishes so your family/judge doesn't have to.
He was a 44 yo bachelor. Why do I feel a need to respond to you?
44 yo bachelors don't exactly place a high priority on a living will.
It that it? Best you got?
Did you vote for o'bamy just the first time, or both times?
Hmm, sounds like a disconnect. Sorry for the loss of your brother.
I placed a high priority on it at 36 seeing how they were crafting the laws.
To think the reaper won't strike at anytime is fool hardy especially at age 44.
To leave your decision in the hands of emotionally charged relatives (be it loving or vultures), a Dr. or hospital that has access to your net worth, or a judge is plain stupid.
A story for you to consider if you have not taken measures to remove any decision making process from those who may not have your wishes as their priority.
A fella I worked with & knew full well of the laws, died intestate. His beneficiary on his 401K was his son. Being single, corporate kept his pension & cashed in on the insurance they had on him. Lo & behold, his 1st born got wind that she was cut out on that beneficiary 401K. She promptly found an attorney to contest & won. So not only could this have been prevented with a trust (for whatever his reasoning was to disinherit) his intent was overruled by the court.
Ad hom does nothing for your argument.
If Obamacare had actually involved death panels, it would have been a great idea.
Don't give up hope, wait just a bit your dream will come true..
My grandmother did just that. She signed her house over to her two daughters (my mother and aunt) with the understanding that they wouldn't sell it in her lifetime. When grandmother finally died, she officially left them nothing.
Fine by me. That money was my mother's and my aunt's, not the government's.
(My father took the money and applied it to debt my mother had racked up, but that's another story.)
lol...
...because all you ignorant serfs will share the pain of our soveruuunteee!
I guarantee, without a doubt, 100% sure that there will be a deal made in the final minutes. Grexit Doom, Off! Bankers EU-phoria. ON.
Merkle wants Greece as a slave State.
Germany is a vassal state of the US. The US has troops on German soil and spies relentlessly on German politicians (Merkel since at least 2002) and German companies with impunity. Merkel will do what her US masters ask her to do:
BERLIN IS WASHINGTON’S VASSAL UNTIL 2099?The state treaty, dated May 21, 1949 and classified by BND as top secret, suggests restrictions of state sovereignty of the Federal Republic of Germany, introduced for a period until 2099. These restrictions include the provision that the winning coalition exercise complete control over Germany's mass media and communications; that every Federal Chancellor is to sign the so-called Chancellor Act; that the gold reserve of Germany is kept under arrest. In fact, all the German Chancellors, including the incumbent Chancellor Angela Merkel, pay their first foreign visit necessarily to the United States. The whole spectrum of German political parties is supervised by a special Washington-based controlling body, while local US-licensed media serve as a more sophisticated means of brainwashing than the Nazi propagandist machine. Meanwhile, Germany's territory is still occupied by US troops. This astonishing picture is not a fancy concoction of a political leftist. It is drawn by a military man whose mind has accumulated the experience of several crucial stages of development of the European civilization and Germany in particular. Gen. (Ret.) Gerd-Helmut Komossa took part in World War II and later in the Cold War. Possessing huge amounts of information, he analyzes the existing mechanisms of global policy with strong criticism.
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-183232
German Government Is Accused of Spying on European Allies for NSAhttp://www.wsj.com/articles/german-government-is-accused-of-spying-on-eu...
German prosecutors drop Angela Merkel mobile phone spying investigationhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/angela-merkel/1...
Someone has to pay interest. I was sitting outside a store waiting for my wife to come out the other day. I was watching many more hispanic people come and go than were around even a few years ago. The thought came to me that in addition to a few other benefits to the very wealthy I was looking at people that had to start over here. They had to buy clothes, cars, food, work and pay rent, but the kicker is that they will be paying lots interest for years.
Merkel doesn't want to go down in history as the woman who lost Greece.
On planet earth, most Germans at this point don't consider Greece worth keeping in the first place.
Even Putin doesn't want it. A halfway competent Syriza might have been a useful ally of Russia within the EU, helping serve as their conscience over Ukraine. As it is, Turkey has already agreed to host the new pipeline.
After ten years of real austerity, Greece may be as well prepared for membership in the Eurasian Union as Armenia. Till then, if Russia needs new Middle Eastern allies, Israel looks much more promising.
Does "no pension cuts" mean you only need 35 yrs working to receive a full pension?
Because that's absurd and is most likely half their pension problems.
Yes, it's absurd. And it's the same sorry story for police, firefighters and many other government employees in the US.
I vote that they print moar.
China will move in and take all the agricultural products.
1) China is busy with problems of its own.
2) China is structured as a mercantilist empire, which means that it imports absolutely nothing that it cannot do without.
3) Greece's problem is an overabundance of do-nothing government jobs and former do-nothings now safely retired and drawing First World-level pensions. Is China going to import them?
#3, Tarabel, Kind of like most every major US city.
So this week Greek banks close, this month Greece defaults and by August the colonels, the only honest government Greece ever had, will be back in charge, rested and ready to clean house and teach the FSA a lesson they didn't completely grasp in 1967.
Pretty Boy Alexis will retire to the bottom of the Aegean and Yanis and Danae will find themselves back in Austin with nothing but the overpriced clothes on their backs, throwing themselves sobbing at James Galbraith's feet. (James will sympathize. He got his own job teaching economics on the strength of his father Kenneth's reputation.)
Bring it on. If Ceau?escu, leader of a much poorer country hobbled by central planning, could pay off the bankers in full and ahead of schedule, the colonels shouldn't have any real trouble. Let's let them get on with it.
I know. Military government is incompatible with EU membership. Fine. Greece will be an asset to the Eurasian Union if and when it shorts its shit out.
Methinks that you underrate Jamie, and perhaps badly.
Dimon? He probably had his House of Morgan minions figure out which colonels they could count on to do the right thing a long time ago. So, I suspect, did Goldman.
They'll be made whole, somehow. They've seen to that. What this really is is is a test case for when it finally becomes necessary to tell the FSA of the developed world (including its "pensioners" living on government handouts because they alienated or aborted all their children) to drop dead.
I'm actually looking forward to seeing how it turns out.
How are you supposed to pay off debts when the debt has destroyed your ability to pay it?
If you have debt that requires $1000 a month just to pay the interest, and you only make $900, you aren't ever paying off the debt.
Now someone could give you a new loan to give you the extra $100 or restructure your debt so that $900 covers the interest payment, but you still have a mountain of debt that will never be repaid. All you are doing is preventing the debt from growing larger.
Even if you are able to pay down the debt by a few dollars every month, it would probably take two lifetimes to pay it all off. You are also using every dime you have to pay off debt, so there is nothing left to live on. So this entire scenario is moot.
Unless the debt is forgiven there is no way out.
The Greek bailouts had nothing to do with Greece. Everything was done to prevent the trillions of dollars in derivatives from exploding. That is why by the end of the day the can will be kicked once again. It won't change anything in Greece and in another year we'll be seeing this shown again.
Exactly! But politicians seem to ignore the simple reality.
That's why the credit card was invented.
To allow you to go into debt without the hope of ever being able to pay it off.
Another leaked e-mail version or something else?
It is questionable that the article provides a full picture. The Greek government always said that further concessions are only possible in principle if combined with a healthy debt reduction. Otherwise the mountain of debt (which the Greek government considers anyway way beyond possible redemption) would increase further. This issue is rarely mentioned in the mass media but is nevertheless very relevant. Without a sizeable debt reduction any deal looks unlikely.
I hope Tsipras presents a plan on a 3 x 5 index card
One word written on the card:
DEFAULT
2 words
DER FAULT
Once we realize and accept that the world is populated by morons and run by ego-driven psychopaths, everything that happens around us starts to make sense or, at least, it becomes understandable.
I hit that point at about age 40-42. I had quit drinking, so the fog cleared, coupled with life experiences.
I can always remember thinking " are they that fucking stupid, or is it me?"
It was both. But this much IS true. Ignorance is bliss! You cannot unlearn this shit.
When I finally ditched my ex wife she bitterly accused me of destroying her blissful ignorance.
If Greece defaults does Donbass get shelled again?
This is a complete game!
Greece should print $1 trillion euros, pay off the $400 billion or so it owes, then offer to lend money to the ECB and the IMf on Monday. :-D.
dt
Just like clock work.
Tying the threads of modern dystopia together :
The coming global water crisis will hit the poor world first, a world devoid of investment and of vital resources to survive.
It brings to mind another myth that started in third world : Microfinance.
A study shows that 94 % of micro finance all goes into financing basic consumption; aka it does not feed the poor from generating a new money stream. It only makes them more debt dependent on expensive loans.
Yes, microfinance like classical finance makes the LENDER rich and makes the borrower drown in layers of debt. Sounds Familiar...
So why not just give FREE money to the poor, instead of giving it to the RICH as currently to play at the Casino?
Its a question worth the asking as more and more people will be deprived of drinking water; aka the right to survive; all the while the corporates and the rich use up those very vital resources for their lawns and industrial projects that don't generate much good for the population; just for the 1% of the upper echelons.
We need the world to stop financing the rich with the help of the spineless and corrupted elected. Or else it might just go pop in their arrogant faces, along with bringing down swaths of the faceless who can't voice their silent prayers.
http://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2015...
You know what the problem is?
Greece defaulted already but the bureaucrats won't admit it as the derivative counter parties need to get paid and there isn't any coin to pay them.
I knew a branch manager for Wells Fargo. Years ago one of her customers won a Loto in CA and they were paying out on an annual basis. My friend looked after the account personally as she knew Spanish as the winners were Spanish speaking.
One year they got a letter from the state with a partial check, informing them they would have to wait before they got the rest. My friend couldn't believe it.
That is the way it is when government is in charge of gambling. In the real world the loser pays or probably gets legs broken or is shot. .gov kicks a can or makes a new law saying they don't really owe it.
i'll bet greece could close the (3.5% of GDP) budget deficit significantly by not making loan payments.
Vote: YES to an Immediate Greek Default
Vote: NO , insult us with even more years of listening to this repetitive BS of "last Summit Meeting on Greek Debt"
They don't even need a Default , as the Debt is Odious beyond belief
More than that, the much touted "default" occurred months ago. The EU system is really just a corpse on life-support, while the morticians stand around saying, "breathe, dammit!"
http://geab.eu/en/nato-the-imf-divisions-grexit-looking-out-to-2020-the-...