This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Germany, Ireland Demand ELA Curbs If No Greek Capital Controls As Greek "Proposal" Revealed
While the latest European FinMin summit desperately tried to put on a united facade when responding to the latest and greatest Greek proposal, which incidentally is so weak that the IMF will throw up all over it as shown below, the reality behind the scenes was anything but. In fact, Greece was this close to having capital controls forced on it earlier today, and would have, if the demand of not just its old BFF Germany's finmin Schauble, but Ireland's Noonan, had materialized.
As the FT reported moments ago, "Germany’s Wolfgang Schäuble and Michael Noonan, his Irish counterpart, pushed for curbs on emergency liquidity for Greek banks unless capital controls were imposed, one of the officials said.
And:
Eurozone finance ministers held an intense debate at their closed-door meeting over whether Athens should impose capital controls to stem the massive deposit withdrawals from Greek banks, three officials said.
Mr Schäuble and Mr Noonan argued forcefully for limits on the amount of ELA approved by the central bank unless capital controls were introduced. But there was no decision on whether such controls were needed and ECB officials hit back, saying ministers should not be weighing in on monetary policy.
Because only the ECB is allowed to weigh in on political matters, such as deciding when to halt Italian bond purchases until Sylvio Berlusconi is replaced as Italy's prime minister.
This exchange must not have been pleasant for the Greek finmin, who "said such controls would be very difficult to enforce, noting that Greece is larger than Cyprus, the only other eurozone country to have required capital controls. “We’re not an island with no borders and one airport,” one official quoted Mr Varoufakis as saying."
Perhaps Yanis should not make it clear that any capital controls would be difficult to impose: next thing you know Panzers will be guarding the Greek border to prevent capital from fleeing.
As for the Greek proposal, which now will have to be voted on and passed not only in the Greek parliament but also in the Bundestag, there are different views. According to the FT, "people who have seen the latest Greek plan said Athens was proposing new savings in the pension system — the biggest sticking point between the two sides — which will amount to about 0.4 per cent of gross domestic product this year and just over 1 per cent next year."
This is vastly different from what Channel 4's Paul Mason tweeted also moments ago when he reported that the "Greek side of the deal" looks as follows:
- €8bn less austerity in this deal than in Troika programme over next 2 years
- No increase in VAT on electricity or medicines
- No public sector layoffs
- EKAS - pension supplement - kept...
- "Fiscal targets high and we question their necessity. However for the first time we hit them by making those who have, pay their share"
- Zero-deficit clause on pensions not implemened
- €800m raised by restoring “employment contribution” to 2014 level
- 3.5% and 4% surplus reduced to 1% and 2%.
- No mention of debt yet.
Or, none of the pension cuts demanded by the IMF which is how Syriza will try to pass the proposal in parliament - as a confrontation with the IMF which the Greek negotiators won - where it may well fly (even without a pledge of debt reduction by the Troika), however said bullet point will be a dealbreaker for both the IMF and Germany.
As such, the reality is that despite all the rhetoric, nothing at all has changed following today's spectacle, and the only tangible difference Greece is that Greek banks have €2 billion less in deposits, which makes one wonder: all this stalling crushing Greek bank solvency, merely assures that the Goldman "conspiracy theory" in which the ECB ultimately does want a Greek default, just not the blame for it, is one day closer to coming to fruition.
»
- 26086 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Dear Ireland, a lot of us in the USA have a few questions about all those US Corporation re-locating to Ireland and may have a few demands of our own.
Kindly address your comments to the Irish Govt...Not Ireland...or do you think that ordinary Irish people, who are taxed to the hilt, are happy that the likes of Apple and Google get a free ride....?
Btw.....Noonan is a school teacher, and a corrupt idiot, and should be laughed at...
This is a money printing system and that is what they do and what they are going to do over and over.
There is nothing to talk about. It is theater.
Just print.
I gotta go guys. See you in a few weeks or so. These wash rinse repeat articles are getting old. I know every ZH commenters position on this and you all know mine. Can't waste any more time with this Greek/EU shit. It's gonna keep going on and on and on and on and on and on... Know what I mean? Besides we have a whole shitload of inner city riots coming up I need to be ready to watch. Later alligator.
While all the other finance ministers flew in on commercial flights, the Greek delegation chartered its own ride: http://www.politico.eu/article/eu-slams-greece-waste-of-time-debt-default/
It's well known that charter flights to/from Greece are cheaper than commerical flights.
They are from UK at least.
You know, I never thought I would come to hate a series of articles on a certain subject as much as last year's Ebola scare.
I was wrong.
Oh, and this is no where near close to being resolved, even once it is resolved for good.
Throw those pathetic Greek deadbeats out of Europe already.
Fuck you Wolferl, you malaka. My dad was a very young Greek mechanic during WWII. He didn't think much of Nazi panzers and Greeks said NO to the Germans back then.
Asteroid- You cant re-write history, then as now, their were Greeks on both sides.......
dt
Ribeye, no offense intended. I was addressing the peoples representatives.
Your comment is spot on.
Noonan and the rest of them. No Guts. And Kenny, the Taoiseach (Prime Minister to you!) is also a former primary school teacher. He's the longest serving member of our Parliament, and before he became Prime Minister by default, had left absolutely no footprints in all those years.
I see him as the village idiot. It's really embarrassing; even his handlers keep him out of the media as much as possible, because even the other village idiots have him sussed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LX066DdRu8
http://www.thejournal.ie/enda-kenny-pointing-list-signature-move-504276-...
-
The reason they’re taking so long to impose capital controls is they want to make sure they choose the most incompetent, unfair, destructive & painful method of implementing them !
Should the first questions be directed to an accomodative Irish government, or to the US government (see: IRS) that pushes US-based corporates to look elsewhere for tax avoidance?
I look at those photos of Wolfgang and just wonder what he would do to the Greeks if he could go back 70 years or so.
Horrible things.
Perhaps we won’t have to wonder long…
So eh.. how about that loan repayment from the beginni of June?
SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!
Wolfgang Shauble.
If looks could bankrupt.
you mean the Poison Dwarf ?
Volfgang Veelchair
Pensions cut 100% when the goverment siezes it all.
It will come to this.
US, too.
http://articles.latimes.com/2014/jan/29/business/la-fi-obama-myra-20140130
Fear not plebs!
Money would be invested in a government bond fund that's been offered to federal employees for years. Principal would be protected so that workers would never lose money.
Dave, during the great depression, everyone but gov employees got scrip. This was used regionally and most family farms etc went under. The postmasters etc were paid in real currency and bought foreclosed farms and RE for next to nothing. There were a few families where came from who used pow's for labor to make millions and are still in political leadership roles in NE.(certainly elsewhere too).
Glad my elders knew what was going on but not involved
Oh Fuckit.
You can't get blood from a turnip.
It's almost as if they were optimistic when the markets were open, but after they closed reality was addressed. But I know serious leaders would never do such a thing.
… what do Syria’s leaders have to do with it?
Whatever happens next, we are all becoming experts on how to fix the Greek economy.
Paul Mason used to work for the BBC but he works for Channel 4 News as the Economics Editor now
I stumbled onto a piece of his yesterday and thought it was pretty good.
I'm impressed with the speed of the Tylers correction, well done.
Is it just me? Isn't it obvious that the longer Greece goes without capital controls, the more the ELA funds the banks, the deeper in debt the Greek banks go, the worse for the EU when/if it fails.
The Greek finmin is playing them and the German and Irish reps are the only one's that see it?
See my post above.
It isn't rational, it's just the effect of real power in the hands of someone who can't bear to see their dream destroyed.
It's all a bit sad, really.
Watson
Even if they get more credit/debt to put on the tab, the Greek banks are long ago toast. They will need to be closed and bailed in regardless of any "deal". For Greeks this may be the last day to withdraw your money.
>>>
Germany’s Wolfgang Schäuble and Michael Noonan, his Irish counterpart, pushed for curbs on emergency liquidity for Greek banks unless capital controls were imposed...
<<<
Maybe they did.
Doesn't matter.
The only opinion that matters is Merkel's, and she would empty the pockets of every German taxpayer before allowing her dream of the United States of Europe to fail.
While she is in charge of Germany, throwing German money into Greece every few months, it makes no sense for Greece to pull out of the EUR.
The only way this stops is if Merkel loses her job, but she still seems very popular with German voters.
No, I don't understand why either...
Watson
Huh. And Dow is still up 100 points.
Noonan should be careful what he wishes for. Ireland could be on deck for this fiasco.
we had to let it fail so we could rescue it
Allan Shatter their former defense minister basically opened the borders - small country, 3.5 million or so...
my understanding is that they already estimate that 1 in 4 babies in ireland are born to non-irish mothers... probably a lot of poles in there, but africans as well.
now, 1 in 4, means 3 out of 8.
and it means, in 30 years, around half.
I think america and arguably britain and france are different - nation of immigrants, and/or colonial empires getting their due.
But Ireland and Sweden - why do they have to agree to demographic replacement?
Because Leftists will, absurdly, call them "anti-immigrant"
Its 3.5 million people, 800 years of oppression in their own soil, a native culture and language that is on life support.
Tens of thousands of Poles and Somalis, understandably, aent going to want to learn about Irish/Gaelic history and language any more than such immigrants as there are in northern bits of Scotland give a fuck about anything but opening bad chinese or indian places. No concern at all for the culture or history.
so why are they letting Ireland be de-Irished?
all this said, part of me does think it funny. The Irish I met always *loved* to talk about how racist America was - as they and/or their cousins simply expected to get cash jobs over the summer on Long Island, the Cape, or the Vineyard.
Of course, there, "hate speech" can land you in jail, but the Irish are going to learn what all the world is learning - people guard their national identity with similar passion to how religious people guard theirs.
The result, mind you, can be good. NYC, London, and amsterdam are fantastic cities because of the mix of people.
But I just dont buy the idea Scotland, Sweden, or Ireland ought to agree to demographic suicide to please Leftist dimwits. On the other hand, if they have a vote and agree to open the gates, that's fine, too.
but every nation has a right to persist, and there's nothing "racist" about not wanting to become a minority in what has been your people's homeland for thousands of years.
This sums western 'cuture' up. Just insert your country's name for scotland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o15PljTS2O8
"Europe has also seen the rise of a powerful, far-right political movement that rejects multiculturalism. The anti-Semitic Jobbik Party in Hungary and the neo-fascist Golden Dawn in Greece are prime examples. In Germany, there has been a series of murders by neo-Nazis. Britain, too, is experiencing an upswing of nationalist, anti-immigrant politics."
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/22/opinion/white-supremacists-without-bor...
I'll note this curiously leaves out Ukraine's *actual* neo-fascists. I don't know enough about Jobbik, and I think Golden Dawn is much less sinister than they are made out to be.
"nationalist, anti-immigrant politics."
See, this means UKIP, and it means ethnic British not wishing to see hundreds of thousands of immigrants flood in each year to the point they become a minority in their own homeland.
I view the view of these authors are racist.
I'll note that the SPLC preaches multiculturalism, but is disproportionately Jewish - 2.5% of the population, in leadership... hence other groups must be under-represented.
Both men are Jewish, and I'd be willing to bet they have never criticized Israel's "far right" for its rejection of "multi-culturalism."
I don't care what people want or believe - but hypocrisy is revolting.
THE MAD CUNT
In 1994, I had such a chat with my Eire mother in law. I advised the mad cunt that things would change, and her town may not be recognizable in 10 years or so. Well, soon after the EU gates were opened, immigrants began to arrive in town. Like the immigrants, the monies started to pour in, and the rest is history....Celtic Tiger (PUSSY) to BUST.
From my observations of 20 years,most immigrants appear to be assimilating to Irish culture. HOWEVER, I have observed some resistance from those of Muslim religion.
Kankerlijer AMS NL
Just returned from NL. Not a big fan of AMS, a concentration of kankerlijers in that city. I can only suggest spending time outside of AMS to better understand the Dutch. Concern for North African immigrants is consensus....in particular, those of Muslim religion.
I am sure Spain, Portugal and Italy are watching this closely. They are getting the recipe for economic pastitsio!!
Fuck the EU
Drive by Religion
Drive-by christianity has run its course, and is now on par with orthodox christianity, catholicism, islam, and all the other bait and swap religions that majorities have chosen to employ, to imprison themselves in the past. Maintaining the status quo is the majority’s focus, so you may as well set your own priorities, and learn for yourself.
Albert Einstein identified a small part in a very large circuit, and didn’t understand the connections. Archimedes identified many pieces and connections, far more than anyone else, in History, and yet there are far more pieces being made, to be identified yet. On this planet, humanity will never catch up to the intelligence of the planet, and the universe is a far bigger place.
From the perspective of the universe, humanity is artificial intelligence, coding AI to implement automation, making itself ever more redundant. If you listen, the corporate politicians simply employ language created by others, as an echo chamber, trying out words and repeating the ones that resonate, with the crowd, which wants to talk, do nothing, and be paid for the privilege, and to pretend to work, to assuage what passes for a conscience.
Aerican ideology is bankrupt, like all other nation/states, and Donald has the most experience with bankruptcy, beating the banks at their own game, which says a lot about the US Constitution and nothing about labor. Capital and the middle class employ bankruptcy in an artificial war to draw you in, and arbitrarily assign debt to your children. The middle class says it is aiming at capital, its aspiration, and shoots you.
When your children come home to complain about their spouses, send them back. If your parents complain about your spouse, send them packing. Like the man said, “never marry an American,” the most ignorant collection of petty tyrannical landlords ever assembled. Consumption is 75% of the economy, so subsidize it some more, on the backs of aborted children, with accrual accounting and revolving immigration, brilliant.
In case you didn’t know, the majority of cheap labor is plowing in through visas, for free money, to drive the university complex on the margin, not from Mexico. Even the least skilled can find better places to go. Putin can take one step into Ukraine and incapacitate Europe, again, because America wants what every other nation/state wants, something for nothing, and that lasts only so long as slaves are multiplying to increase rent/wage at the abutment, always on a bridge to nowhere, in a city, always under construction.
Funny, the critters skip right by Genesis, and head straight to Revelations, where they go no further, missing God all together, always wanting to know the end before beginning, seeking external security for internal insecurity, which is why labor works for its children, rather than the moneychangers, and why the majority seeks them out, for extortion. Prepare your children by encouraging them to be themselves, at the required distance, to employ the gravity.
Arguing with a reflection in a mirror, created for the purpose, is a waste of time. Life is about how you educate yourself, not how well you know the empire. Having lived next door to hedge fund managers, they are the least of my concerns. Anyone can take advantage of stupid with a few lines of code. You have two feet for a purpose. Pivot.
Expect the majority to attack your marriage, because that is all they know – spiritual, intellectual and physical poverty, a false choice chasing its own tail. Wannabe landlords complaining about landlords, passive investment, is not an economy. Money, an accounting token, doesn’t work; only you can do that. That steering wheel at the Fed is just for show, to give capital something to do, manage busy work.
Let the majority think that you are an island, until it finds out otherwise for itself, when it’s far too late. Most of global trade is a waste of time, along with the infrastructure supporting it, a game all politicians play, manufacturing and distributing shoddy merchandise, with a premium for advertizing content, brand control, a game in which the one with the most toys wins, what they don’t know.
From the perspective of labor, there is no difference between any of the religions; capitalism, socialism or communism; feminism or chauvinism. They are all a means to an end, something for nothing, which doesn’t work, except as a counterweight. Politics and religion, representing themselves as science, scaring the ignorant, made ignorant for the purpose, is the cause of climate variability, and why finance is running the country, into the ground. You don’t need a degree from Wharton to bypass a bridge to nowhere.
Only the followers of American leadership are unaware of the magnitude of its incompetence, and they have no intention of waking up. Churchill had it wrong, and Churchill had it right. It is not American leadership, which is only incrementally more efficient at language than its replicas, that is restraining Putin. It is not America that will do the right thing, after America has tried everything else. Some gangs are legal and some aren’t, but in no case is their intention to work.
The critters mimic nature, with the intention of shorting it out, so they don’t have to think or do for themselves, calling the result intelligence, and sit around complaining about discomfort because walking is beneath their dignity, but they consider themselves an authority on how your children must be educated, the United States, a force for good, versus evil, like every other dictator, but with more scapegoats in more levels.
What more do you need to see?
Throw this pathetic Schäuble out of his wheelchair already.
Without pension changes... the deal is DOA.
Where does Tyler get these pics all the time? This time it looks like a meeting of Voldemort and Gollum.
the seriousness of all this is hilarious.
The debt is derived, mostly, out of absolute thin air. Paper and ink in exchange for productive labor compensated with paper and ink.
and this debt is so holy, even if you didn't agree to it, even if the guy who did was a crook in collusion with other crooks, we want your old and your sick and your unemployed to take a hit to give us back as much of the ink and paper as possible.... even if it means violating extant contracts, agreements, or priorities.... because
the spice must print.
It's like the world is mesmerized by these sub genius twats spouting their fucking jargon and gibberish.
I actually read Yellen's speech, or a lot of it - sheer torrents of nonsense - taken seriously.
the debt was conjured out of thin air, it should be so paid back.
Print drachmas, declare them legal tender, peg them to the yuan, and give them to the agents of the EU inside Greece.
Then kick all of them out and invite BRICs politicians in with some token naval vessels and troops.
Last minute "proposal" my ass. Cheating deadbeats. Fuck 'em.
Its not cheating its printing sovereign debt!
And the money machine is based on the mantra debt = asset!
Yes, thats the nightmare of Mutti and Draghi : Greece is not the only "rotten apple" in the Eurozone.
In fact the Banksta cabal of Europe has matched if not outdone the US!
What happens if "greasing the wheels" of Greece leads to revolt and contagion ?
Maman Mia !
Calling the Squid's unmatched acumen at creating smoke n mirrors!
When the facts defy fiction we are all embarked on the Odyssey of "funny money".
The greece drama is like that scene in the holy grail where lancelot is storming the castle. he keeps charging but doesnt seem to get any closer, until hes suddenly there and stabs the bored guards
Those wankin bankers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koY6kXhQDQo
"next thing you know Panzers will be guarding the Greek border to prevent capital from fleeing."
Deutsche Bank is wobbling and NATO Blitzkrieg aint working