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Greece Capitulates: Tsipras Crosses "Red Line", Will Accept Bailout Extension
We’ve long said that negotiations between Greece and its creditors are more a matter of politics than they are a matter of economics or finance.
From the troika’s perspective, breaking Greece and forcing PM Alexis Tsipras to concede to pension cuts and a VAT hike is paramount, and not necessarily because anyone believes these measures will put the perpetually indebted periphery country on a sustainable fiscal path, but because of the message such concessions would send to Syriza sympathizers in Spain and Portugal. In short, the troika cannot set a precedent of allowing debtor nations to obtain austerity concessions by threatening to expose the euro as dissoluble.
On the Greek side of the table, Tsipras must convince Syriza party hardliners that concessions are preferable to Grexit and the economic malaise that would come with redenomination. For some on the Left Platform, compromising the party’s electoral mandate is simply not an option and it’s these lawmakers (who just two weeks ago voted to leave the euro and default) that Tsipras will need to sway or else attempt to push an unpopular agreement through parliament a gambit which implicitly assumes that the ensuing political upheaval and voter backlash is preferable to economic collapse. The problem with the latter approach is that it effectively means the troika will have succeeded in using financial leverage to subvert the democratic process, an eventuality that die hard Syriza hardliners are in no mood to suffer.
After one final attempt to table a proposal that retains some semblance of Tsipras' defiant posturing, it appears he may have finally broken after a meeting with ECB chief Mario Draghi where is sounds as though the central bank warned the PM that without concessions, ELA to Greek banks would be cut off and that, of course, would mean game over as Greeks would take to the streets en masse. From Bloomberg:
European Central Bank President Mario Draghi told Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras in meeting on Monday in Brussels that the ECB will help secure the country’s banking system as long Greece is in an aid program, Greek government official tells reporters on the condition of anonymity.
And shortly thereafter (via AFP):
Greece has accepted the principle of extending its current bailout programme which expires at the end of the month so as to keep it afloat while a long-term debt solution is worked out, Greek government sources said Monday.
"For the first time, we accept the extension of the programme as the only way forward," one source said as eurozone leaders discussed Greece's future in the single currency ahead of the June 30 end of its current aid programme.
And so, we turn to politics or, more appropriately, Greek politics because the fate of Greece now looks to rest in the hands of Syriza's far left factions. Dow Jones has more:
To avert a default and possible exit from the eurozone, Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras must sell Germany's chancellor, Angela Merkel, on his plan to fix Greece's finances.
Then he needs to persuade Vassilis Chatzilamprou.
But out at the Resistance Festival, an annual gathering of Greece's far left, the lawmaker from Mr. Tsipras's left- wing Syriza party said he was in no mood for submission.
"We cannot accept strict, recessionary measures," Mr. Chatzilamprou warned. It was after midnight Sunday, and the weekend festival was winding down. "People have now reached their limits."
Syriza isn't a traditional party but a coalition of left-wing groups with an intricate family tree formed out of doctrinal splinters and squabbles. It is those many, disparate factions that Mr. Tsipras must also satisfy with any potential bailout agreement with Greece's creditors.
Mr. Chatzilamprou, for instance, is a member of the Communist Organization of Greece, which is an outgrowth of the Organization of Marxist-Leninists of Greece. It is distinct from the Communist Tendency, which has a Trotskyite bent. (Neither should be confused with the Communist Party of Greece, which is outside Syrzia.)
That unusual composition has made it especially hard for Mr. Tspiras to strike a deal with eurozone and International Monetary Fund officials. "The people who are responsible for the negotiation move within a frame that is determined by the central committee of the party," says Alekos Kalyvis, a longtime union official who is on the committee and responsible for its economic-policy portfolio.
The negotiators have some latitude to make decisions, he said, "but this shouldn't be interpreted as if they have a blank check from the party--neither them nor Tspiras."
Many of Syriza's factions regard the party's rise as a epochal moment for the left--and any compromise on a bailout as a deep betrayal of its principles.
Stathis Leoutsakos, another Syriza member of Parliament, said Germany and the other creditor countries are determined to defeat Syriza. "In my opinion, their aim is to humiliate the Greek government," he says. "They want the message that no other politics are accepted in the eurozone."
It is also uncertain exactly what kind of deal would be acceptable to the left wing of Syriza. The party's argument that fiscal austerity--steep budget cuts and tax increases--has deepened Greece's economic slump has been central to its popular success.
Most on the party's left wing reject any additional pension and wage cuts outright, saying Greek workers have suffered enough in years of depression since Greece's first bailout.
Mr. Leoutsakos, like others on the far left, also insist that at least some of Greece's debt must be forgiven. "In order to service it, we'd need to execute the Greek people," he said. "And nobody in Syriza is willing to do it."
There is also the question of Mr. Tsipras's future as prime minister if he does compromise. No one here is unaware of the fates of former Greek premiers George Papandreou and Antonis Samaras. Both signed bailout agreements with Europe.
Both lost their jobs, and Mr. Papandreou's party has been all but destroyed.
Going back on his leftist principals "would be political suicide for Tsipras," Mr. Chatzilamprou said. "It would mean he is also recyclable: They could replace him with someone else."
And DB has more color on the political fight Tsipras faces in the coming weeks:
Subject to further progress this week, focus is likely to shift very quickly to the Greek domestic political front. Disbursements for Greece ahead of the IMF tranche due at the end of the month will require domestic parliamentary approval. It is likely that the Greek PM would first attempt to obtain approval from the SYRIZA party's 200-strong Central Committee before bringing an agreement to parliament. In the event of failure at the party level, a referendum would likely be called. In the event of party approval, a vote would be likely taken to the parliamentary floor. Depending on the process adopted, such a vote may take between 2 days to a week.
It will remain a major challenge for the Greek PM to successfully pass a potential agreement through parliament. Local press reports that 10-40 SYRIZA MPs are likely to dissent (the government has an 11 MP majority), while overnight the Independent Greeks junior coalition partner (12 MPs) has also raised the possibility of withdrawing from government. How the political process plays out largely depends on the number of MPs the current government loses. A loss of less than thirty parliamentarians may force a change in coalition to include the two small moderate parties in parliament (PASOK and the River) jointly controlling 30 MPs. More substantial losses requiring the support of major opposition party New Democracy would open up the possibility of broader changes to the government or a referendum.
We'll close with what we said last week about the tough choice the PM faces: "Tsipras must decide how he wants history to remember his tenure as Prime Minister. Either he will be the leader who allowed Greece to crash out of the euro on its way to a redomination-driven economic collapse, or he will go down as the fiery advocate for change who caved under pressure and allowed the troika to stamp out democracy in the place where it was born."
* * *
And because this is Europe after all, someone had to deny the "rumors":
- MERKEL SAYS THERE WAS NO DISCUSSION OF EXTENSION SCENARIOS ON GREEK BAILOUT
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I hope he resigns, and Golden Dawn gets its shot next.
Let the Shit Show begin!
Golden Dawn is the future.
Kabuki Theater is the future.
I like this part:
Going back on his leftist principals "would be political suicide for Tsipras," Mr. Chatzilamprou said.
"Leftist principles" is certainly a contradiction in terms.
So I guess this means that, just like GREXIT 2011, we'll be holding our collective breath when GREXIT 2017 inevitably surfaces after a year hiatus from the headlines while Hitlery gets elected.. Only it'll be DIFFERENT that time. Kabuki theatre indeed!
Now they've got him.
He'll keep borrowing to pay interest until Greece is foreclosed-on by the European elites.
Germany sorely needs vacation property.
as said before, it's very funny to see almost everybody here waiting something that has not been designed to happen.
Let them eat cake (tm)
Only nationalism can defeat internationalism... EVERYWHERE.
"Congratulations Greek people, you won!!"
"What did we win?"
"7.2 billion more in debt! Yyaaaayyyy!"
Did you read the article or just the headline?
Not one damned thing has been decided other than to have the Greek MPs in Parliament to VOTE on the decision..
It will remain a major challenge for the Greek PM to successfully pass a potential agreement through parliament. Local press reports that 10-40 SYRIZA MPs are likely to dissent (the government has an 11 MP majority), while overnight the Independent Greeks junior coalition partner (12 MPs) has also raised the possibility of withdrawing from government.
C’mon, you dopes! You don’t really BELIEVE The Troika is gonna accept Greece’s budgetary ravings? They’ve just stopped SAYING NO (publicly).
Money talks and Bullshit walks.
Did Greece walk away with money?
You have a good assessment tc06rtw.
The EU cannot announce a default as that will topple their Banks. They are trapped into taking care of their friends in the Deadbeat Club.
For the next act...Italy and Spain. If the Greels can d it then why not?
The European Socialist Union is just the collection of Socialists that make up the Deadbeat Club.
And as for Brussels?
Anybody have Tulips?
They have been blowing up Bubble Markets over their for centuries.
Nothing is new.
bet the greeks parliment decides to go brics.
Back to the motto. "Everything is manipulated."
For every up or down, GS makes billions.
Hopefully, they will loose control soon and with our large assymetric bet, we can trade our 28' sloop for a 65' ketch.
Vamos
Silly people. We knew this was going to happen. Greece ain't going nowhere. The bankers win again. They always win.
Update -
ECB raises ELA *again*
Now that -->
Greece is now officially a part of Russia’s big new gas plan
@ tall tom, yes, i did read the article, and i realize nothing is finalized, all i really meant was the can has been successfully kicked one last time, for a little while anyway, but I don't think there is any doubt some kind of deal can be reached that will enable the greeks to borrow another 7.2B(i think thats the number) to use to pay interest on their debt and add to the balance.
And as far as 'trapped into taking care of their friends in the deadbeat club', what that really means is that german and dutch taxpayers are trapped into keeping their major banks solvent by giving the greek govt their money so they can then make the interest payments to the major EU zone banks who loaded up on greek debt. The real winner here is douche bank and all the rest who loaded up on greek debt looking for higher yields
Greece took the last free money and the Parliament will vote to default. They will not back Tsipras on this. That is my gut feeling.
Douchebunk will eat the Principal Loss on those Greek Bonds and the whole damned thing will Meltdown...not as a result of this.
This is the excuse after all.
The whole damned Derivatives Narket melts down because of the massive losses that Douchebunk realized because they bet LONG, extreme leveraged LONG... on Oil Prices.
That is what my gut tells me. This is all theatrics in order to place blame on the Greeks.
Douchebunk is cooked. Greece does not matter.
Pass the popcorn will ya?
You are not the only person on here thinking exactly this.
wrong, wrong and wrong.
you only see the situation the way YOU want it to finish.
you refuse to face the reality of the evidence : why tzipras in hell did not just said what you pretend already.... whay asking more money if their goal is to quit and go full east...?
because he cannot, greece is euro condemned, instant devaluated neo drakm would make em impossible to get what they still importing such food.
situation would be worse.
greeks whine because they cannot buy what they want but they still have sun, sea and food, and economy is not that bad, let's be honnest, a population starving go to unrest, if you do not see them revolting, they just have full stomacs...
morality, they feel controled, but humans needs masters and control, you cannot let human without control, that is the main point ALL here will not be agree with me, you cannot let the world without authority. but it is another story. do not be stupid enough to downvote me just for the last sentence, would you.
+1 oil is the story!
Only anarchism can defeat government.
Nationalism won't help, just another way to divide and conquer humanity.
Another on the list including race, religion, gender ......
Left/Right politics is total fucking bullshit.
No leaders means no wars.
Personally, I don't need, or want, a 'leader' telling me what I can or can't do.
Fuck 'em all.
you have nailed it- chaos, ropes, guns, and upheaval. or moar of the same. individually, we march to a different drum until the bankster matrix consumes our every movement of freedom, then the anarchism must proceed. we will know that tyme, when it arrives...
Tyler observes that DEMOCRACY migt end in the country which invented it. Excellent! Democracy in Greece, as were its incredible architectual marvels, were only possible through the societal acceptance of slavery. Ancient Greece had a very large slave population, some of whom gained their fredom only through making themselves an invaluable part of the elite's system but that was very rare. The elites were afforded the time to philosophise, via the transfer of the responsibility of their personal labour onto the backs of their various slaves. Slaves were well educated and given highly respected tasks and a stipend, which allowed them some personal freedoms. However, The elites were the only ones allowed to vote in their "democracy", establishing privilege. The elites held the reins of power through controlling the money creation. They owned the silver mines and used slaves to work in the mines to produce it. If our times sound as though they parallel those of the ancient Greeks, you are on the way to understanding the process of how the elites control the populace, through controlling, issuing and owning the source of money.
The same system is employed today. They aren't stupid.
You, working like a slave to earn their "money", thinking you have choices and freedom through your vote, probably haven't felt the weight of your shackles. They control the voting system. That is why we have Obama, Jeb and Hillary.
Most of the Greek citizen-slaves are still begging to remain in the EU and still seek the security of their captors. Their insoucience towards their inevitable demise is only paralled by ours.
Welcome aboard, number 673. Find yourself a seat and take a firm grip on that long stick thingy there. When you hear a drum beat, pull hard on it but don't stop. If you do this, we promise to feed you, right up to the time of your death. P.S. Please read the disclaimer written in lemon juice on the bottom of you indenture agreement.
You failed to explain who the slaves were. They were captured mercenary soldiers who dared to attack Athens. Great disincentive, as you could be enslaved for very long time. Since Athenians were well educated, they needed them for the menial jobs and they gave then incentive to work hard to gain freedom. Brilliant I say. 20 years later they were too old to work anyway.
Nonetheless, I do agree that the system is similar today, but you can now choose your master and if you work hard and save enough, you can become a master yourself.
"Nonetheless, I do agree that the system is similar today, but you can now choose your master and if you work hard and save enough, you can become a master yourself."
You've not polished that seat enough 673.
You havn't worked hard enough to be the master of the girl on the checkout next to yours.
You will never pay off your debts, 673; just as the Greeks can never pay off theirs.
Regardless of whether or not the slaves were captured pirates, soldiers, women, children, the point is; they were sold as slaves and traded for cattle etc. They were treated well, yes, but slaves none the less. They were even allowed to own land but their work was taxed, just as yours is, by your masters.
Still brilliant?
If so, you are yet to measure the weight of your shackles. Keep up with the beat.
In Case You Are Still Confused About Who Is In Charge
http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/06.15/confused.html
1- you never raped a girl you already though in yourself '" fuck ! she is nice i want to fuck her"
2- you never killed someone you though in yourself " this guy piss me of, i'm gonna kill him"
3- etc.... list is long.
morality : YOU OBEY to laws, into system you navigate because you have been educated to, formated to you are pupet like another, you think you act by yourself but you not.
anarchism is the 9years old mentality of adult thinking of playing back with little hotweels cars who can smash em with hammer without parents yelling into him.
anarchism is chaos.
chaos can be up to reconsider your own existence as an entity, you consider yourself as an superior antity with control to sub entities, you are facing a dream, man, you must wake up, you are eaten by the system and you just do not accept to be what you realize.
it is sad.
to be, and be safe, it is not the point of being in a no system. because chaos put yourself in danger, the solution is to stand oustside of the actual system you know how to navigate into, it is subtle difference.
you have no power to change it, so use it as your advantage but stay out of the thing.
You've had a touch; of the sun.
It is Mother Nature that is "dividing humanity" you stupid Western cunt! Carving differences and creating different species is the Mother Nature's work. How else do you think genders, races and cultures exist? Your liberal Western view of erasing identity, religion, culture, equating genders... how is that working for you?! Not so well, hm? You are spreading degenerations you stupid cunts! But what else can one expect from a libtard Westerner?! To put it in the simplest terms: you are scum! A blight upon the world!
And what do you know about divide and conquer tactic? The tactic is exclusively used against the same or similar entities, never between the entities which naturally differentiate. Supporting a weaker side in a conflict is the most common usage of that tactic.
Only in your degenerate Western culture, if you can call it that as your Muricano culture does not exist - it is an assemble of various cultures and has no authentic print, can obvious contradictions and contrasts co-exist peacefully alongside each other. Imagine, liberal Western scum is pro-queer, but accepting the fact that there are differences, natural differences, between genders is "divide and conquer" tactic to subdue them! That is kind of moronic stuff that stupid, degenerate, corrupting liberal Western scum is well known for after all!
The problem is that vast majority doesn't understand what really has to happen, not what it is thought to happen. There is no sane mind either in the Trojka or Greece side who believes the debt will be ever paid back. All what they do is a political dance from which Greece is seeking to leave with the maximum benefit. Greece is dancing in-between EU & Russia and all what EU wants is a decent, face saving closing so that Russia doesn't get the maximum strategic benefit. The stalemate will just postpone the real trouble for somewhere/sometime in the future, so far in the future for the current Trojka leaders that they will not have do deal with it but another team. Greece will *seem* to be following a debt paying plan, Russia will start pumping the gas and provide a free rain of money to Athens, IMF/ECB will look like happy with the things as going. The real looser here? USSA - easy to see why. If Merkel, Hollande & the EU dark lords are behind this deal? You can bet on it, as I said yesterday, they just realized that in USSA vision they are just good to become dust & ashes, collateral damage in the muricans need of a war with the sino-russian alliance. EU needs stability at any price and Varoufakis knew it, pretty easy to see, Russia + China are just far too big and close to Berlin, Paris, London etc. to afford to pinch them too hard. Plus, the Islamic shit-storm just has reached much too close the European shores and the only ones able to stop-it for real are Russia & China - opposite to USSA which would benefit hugely from an Europe engaged in a cultural, religious war.
The hard-core truth of the situation is that what the EU, IMF, and ECB are doing constitutes an Act of War. Those entities are threatening to destroy Greece as a nation, and devastate its society.
The Greeks should immediately proclaim this reality to the world, seize everything EU, ECB, or IMF within its borders, especially all banking accounts, and raid the offices of these institutions with their armed forces.
Extreme? Yes, of course it is. But this is about power, not economics, or business. It is the imposition of the troika's power to rule Greece; when one entity attempts to impose itself on another, illegally and immorally, then it is an Act of War against the target.
So this is an extreme situation that has only two choices: 1) Submit to the rule of the troika - admit the parliament is no longer a national legislature, but is instead a regional whose laws and actions must be approved by the troika; or 2) Declare this an Act of War - and do everything that Greece can to do to destroy the troika, permanently.
Those are the real choices in this affair.
It is my hope that Greece will recognize the "Big Picture" of this and declare the troika's actions an Act of War against Greece.
But it is now obvious that the Prime Minister lacks the courage to fight for the freedom of his country. May history record him as the man who sold Greece to the EU banksters, and his grave be cursed forever.
-30-
I think this was the case till very recently, probably just few days ago, till EU lords realized they are heading to becoming dust & ashes in murica's game. now, all it is about a conclusion allowing EU to leave with the heads-up and look further how to stay safe & stable. what u describe will be declared as fascist intervention in the internal affairs of a sovereign country and it started being presented as it just few days before by Tsipras. that would have started a shit-storm as Russia would have been entitled to present itself again as the european savior from the fascist forces, especially because of direct economical strategic interest in Greece. Figure out what Greece would have done with the armament they found ways to purchase recently and with the political support from Russia's side.
Do not underestimate CIA's ability to distabilize Greece from within. That is a fear to all Greeks and Tsipras needs to finesse it. (Think Ukraine)
Don't underestimate good old european power circles. All the gold is in England and Switzerland, Fort Knox is just one bad joke waiting to blow up. The american dream is over, today muricans are enslaved by their own .gov way worse than europeans. More average debt per capita, less social benefits, schools are fucked, university is only affordable for the rich. And it's not going to get any better by printing more yellen bucks.
Yes, a conflict with Russia is nothing the europeans want, but they are also big profiteers of middle-eastern instability and cheap oil. Brought to you by the united states. So it's not that easy to choose sides, it's a dangerous game.
"The problem is that vast majority doesn't understand what really has to happen ..."
Why democracy fails. Too many low information voters who don't understand where this is going and who too easily line up for the banksters paper offerings.
Starting to sound like 1984.
UK leaves and joins America (Oceania), and the EU allies with Eurasia) etc.
Holy gosh, good observation :) LOL, Orwell visionary intelligence, amazing ...
When government is the problem, there's only one solution...................
Very fitting statement from someone with your name...
WOW this is honestly turning into a "DALLAS" style soap opera
Not until somebody shoots 'JR'.
JR is.... ?
dead.... Neidermeyer?
Hmm, Germany is the one that needs the bailout. The bailout funds will not go to Greece, well, the VAST majority.
I thought it was pronounced Shitlery?
But...that Varifokalis dude knows game theory....at least, he wrote a term paper on it, or soemthing like that. Okay, even though that sort of like writing a masters thesis on coaching football (regardless of the shape of the ball you use)...lol, did anyone expect anything different....yes Steaksmith, Kabuki theater.
...the only thing I think I know I know...is that we're one day closer to a real reckoning day.
Knowing about game theory doesn't make you a good player. Varoufakis is a pawn, he wouldn't be able to change shit even if he wanted to.
Actually, Leftists have principles. But the problem is the principles are not founded in any type of tangible reality, and therefore can never achieved.
Mainly because what's called left now is what was called Fascism in the 30s or National Socialism if you will.
At one point being left was in favour of the workers owning the means of production not demanding free money from the state.
Today's left don't even know what they're meant to be fighting for.
Spot On! Of course it's all by design by the oligarchs to create the perfect debt slaves. Provide just the perfect mix of bread and circuses to the masses, along with the necessary police state to keep them compliant. Welcome to the New Feudal World Order.
Wow someone who undestands what socialism was sold to the people as. Too bad it has never existed. Socialism today means borrowing money from Financeers and Bankers to feed the free shit army to guarantee the next election.
Too bad you got everything wrong about the NSDAP though. What they sought to do was to stop borrowing from what they called international Jewish finance and furnish their own currency.
"The struggle against international finance and loan capital interest has become the most important point in the program of the Germanic nation's economic independence and freedom." Mein Kampf Ford Translation location 3057
where do you think the Bankers get thier power? By spending other peoples money-same with the Pentagon
Oh do tell of an instance where the left had power and the workers owned anything. More like a small party/committee indulged itself on the backs of the workers in every instance. The propaganda was always just that - propaganda.
Left means centralization of control and nothing more.
Catalonia circa 1936 before the Soviets killed it off and The Free Territory that was in East Ukraine just after WWI which, again, was killed off by The Soviets. But yea I totally agree every Left wing country we've seen has been a centralised hell hole benefitting the few. I think the two examples prove that pretty well.
@Stuck....no different than Bush 2.0 saying he is giving up on his conservative values we he asked us for bank bailouts in 2008. In fact, Bush even said "this sucker is going down".
I wonder is Tsipras is allowed back in Russia, now ?
So much for the much vaunted Greek exit from the EU
No leaders worth a damn, no public that has a f*cking clue
welcome to the West
Strange how redenomination (resinstitution of a Drachma) is treated as precursor to collapse. Do they not understand that the singular purpose of the European Union is to establish central control through suppression of national economies? IT'S A PERMANENT YOKE AROUND YOUR NECK AND A BOOT ON YOUR NATIONAL FACE. YOU REALLY WANT THAT? BEWARE: whenever you strike a deal with psychopaths, the human cost escalates, and the only winners are the psychopaths.
Yeah, I am starting to really get it. Greece is the EU's 2008 Financial Crisis Bailout. The EU Taxpayer is getting the Shaft bit time from this whole EU Crisis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_debt_crisis#Greece
greece is no moar than a pawn on the chess board. and we are early in the game. this piece was moved fwd and is still on the board...
Same as it ever was. Who knew the Talking Heads were onto something that would span decades?
Golden Dawn, aren't they the Marvel Comic version of the Ukrainian Right Sector?
There's me thinking they were a throwback from the original Die Hard...
Fascism has no future.
EML Fascism is where we're at. The western governments are working for BankCorp. What's not to understand?
The EU IS fascism.
It should be renamed Goldman EuroSachs, GmbH.
the world has moved to fascism sponsored by merica with a corporate presence nearly everywhere. so it stands to reason why merica spends a trillion a year on offence to keep the oposition(liberty) from tearing down the making of 102 years of debt to create this system.
"Fascism has no future."
Actually, the future of Fascism is so 'bright', you'll have to wear shades.
Gamma ray shades.
......more like, continue!
GREXFINITY!
All this time I'm having flash backs of this one girl who just wouldn't leave me alone after I broke up with her.
The Greeks need counseling instead of more free cash from anyone.
How is this not a win for Greece. The old program they changed nothing and got money. Why not SSDD?
Golden Dawn's founder said today there is no other way than accepting the new memorandum and all the components the troika demands. SUCK IT.
Anti-systemic my ass, freakin nazi band of murderers.
Hey dumbass. You don't pay for the music, so quit pretending as if you had any way to order the songs.
I think they are playing for time...so does Syriza.
Play along to the EU' tune until some shitstorm hits (PODEMOS?) and then reconsider yr options..
I thought they all kissed and made up this morning. did that embolden troika to ask for more? either tsipras has been bought out (personally) or else he has no idea what he is doing. he should make cash deals now with russia and tell the EU greece will not pay them back anything PERIOD.
have some balls, man.
<<I thought they all kissed and made up this morning. did that embolden troika to ask for more?>>
Sigh.
No, this is just Tyler believing the MSM again.
Notice in this whole article, Tsipras has actually SAID nothing about this. The only sources of this rumour are all 1) MSM and 2) as usual, anonymous "sources within the Greek government" (i.e., MSM again, making shit up).
This article -- and sadly, therefore, most of the comments -- is a waste of time and a waste of excitement. Tyler REALLY needs to quit believing MSM spin like this.
I will wait to see what the Greek government has to say before I will look up from my coffee. Those really SHOULD include a quote or two with an actual NAME attached; gee, maybe even from Tsipras! Until then, it's business as usual... no deal, more meetings to come, every one of which Tyler for some reason will deem important enough to cheerlead Schauble about, during lo the next six months, for eternity, and beyond, foreverandever, amen. Angling for a Bloomberg spot, are we?
Shame on you, Tyler. Have you not yet learned that any and all MSM "sources" on Greece are the tricklings from Schauble's leaky ass? What, are you dating his appointments secretary or something? Don't get enough real Greek news for clicks, so you have to resort to peddling this Bloomberg and AFP garbage? Your headline -- "Greece capitulates Tsipras crosses red line" etc. and the teaser are UNFORGIVABLY misleading spin. Your coverage remains pathetic at best.
I logged into this article simply b/c it was flagged on the page. Thought for a second something real had happened. Good for you, Tyler, by flagging it you reeled me in -- I would have just skipped it otherwise. So pissed off at the complete LACK of content and waste of time that I gave it a "1". This is why half the time I just completely skip Tyler's Greek coverage now. Annnnd, we're back to relying on Mish for the REAL Greek negotiation news.
Wake up, Tyler. Wait until there's some NEWS before reporting it. And when you do, try not to choose sides so obviously. And if you must, then for God's sake, try not to kiss Schauble ass quite so loudly, will you? You're embarrassing yourself with those pompoms. Gimme a C-I-A! Gimme a M-S-M!
Not saying this WON'T happen, just that there's no more reason to believe it now than the other 236 times you've waved the white flag on Greece's behalf via the MSM.
It is now in the Greek Parliament's hands.
The Greek Parliament, perhaps, will not agree...
The KEY PARAGRAPHS to the article...
Subject to further progress this week, focus is likely to shift very quickly to the Greek domestic political front. Disbursements for Greece ahead of the IMF tranche due at the end of the month will require domestic parliamentary approval. It is likely that the Greek PM would first attempt to obtain approval from the SYRIZA party's 200-strong Central Committee before bringing an agreement to parliament. In the event of failure at the party level, a referendum would likely be called. In the event of party approval, a vote would be likely taken to the parliamentary floor. Depending on the process adopted, such a vote may take between 2 days to a week.
It will remain a major challenge for the Greek PM to successfully pass a potential agreement through parliament. Local press reports that 10-40 SYRIZA MPs are likely to dissent (the government has an 11 MP majority), while overnight the Independent Greeks junior coalition partner (12 MPs) has also raised the possibility of withdrawing from government.
Tsipras is not a dictator after all and will let his people's representatives decide their own fate.
Isn't that the way that we need to rule in the United States, by actual representation?
So it is all theater. It buys a little more time for what it is worth.
As for the MSM??? That is the only source available.
Relax and...do not bogart that popcorn.
Take the story with a grain of salt.
Bla, bla, bla. It's what was expected. Just a little political drama to enhance the ratings
But it seems the GD has folded also-they can be brushed aside without too much trouble by the Bankers
fuck syriza. as a zionist jew. i am perfectly ok with all jews being kicked out of europe if it means all bankers get their asses fucked and the hoards of beauracrats gets stuffed up a shit hole.
the french far right , greek far right and nazi far right in germany are fine by me.
israel is a homeland for a tribe. the greek tribe , german tribes, and french tribes all should have their due.
the ultra hardcore nazis at the industrial pinnacle that are super hardcore actually want the EU to be used to conquer all of europe.
it's not going to work. you are still going to need local mussolinis.
i think the the next round of nazi hood will not be so much internationalist as look like old school europe. paradoxically enough , the next hitler will support israel's existence against the muslim hoards. and israel will find itself with ever more support from europe----as a colonialist outpost against the encroaching east.
it is no accident that gheghis khan's armies were stopped from invading subsaharna africa on territory that is now in modern israel ( by an egyptian mamluk army no less led by a nordic blond mercenary caste general) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ain_Jalut
the europeans never beat the great khan's armies and were saved only when they turned around and left europe to return to the great khans' funeral.
i expect all this to go down 30 to 40 years from now after the left wing socialist nazis fail to 'unify' europe through successive rounds of finaicalization via the IMF/ECB nazi banks.
the asians and russians will never be allowed to financialize europe. the plans of the nazi and bis banks will fail and once again the rise of real polticial parties will matter. this time. it won't be socialists. but conservatives on the far right. people with good sense.
Golden Dawn coming up. What a bunch of malakias! The Greeks could have had the EU by the short and curlies. Write down the debt or we pull out, with a drachma backed by oil pipeline revenues. But no, complete capitulation.
Let me get this straight: The debt Greece owes is "Illegal, Illegitimate, and Odious" but now they're going to pay it back anyways? Do I have this right? Seriously?
Sort of like "Down with the King! The King blows goats! Down with the festering, odious, evil regime! What's that? You're offering better terms? Well, ok then..."
I wonder which IMF journalist day camp this guy went to.
After reading this article; it feels like they spread my butt cheeks nice and wide, stuck their tongue deep into my asshole and then started to wiggle it around a little.
Best Greece comment I will read this whole week. Of that I am sure. :)
Golden Dawn to take a gold shower on the troika.
Choke
fiftybagger Fri, 03/06/2015 - 14:07
I told you these commie jokers would fold from the very beginning. The only thing the Greek people wanted was more free stuff, and to not have to live within their means.
http://youtu.be/GS5vb3tnQVQ?t=5m12s
THIS - IS - GOLDMAN SACHHSSSSS
http://i.imgur.com/FUrL33h.jpg
This IS Goldman Sachs! A quick little graphic I made for this occasion.
Greece and the ret of the PIIGS are holding the cards.
Demand anything and the Eurocrats will accept. Anything except pull out of the Eurocratic union.
Germany needs to leave. Walk away from ECB and billions in liabilities. Bring back the DM and continue being German. No problem for Germany short term, mid term and especially not long term.
I see upside all around with GERXIT
They ALL need to leave
Germany is just a pawn doing as told. It will not just walk away just like Greece was never going to exit. All this shitshow ends suddenly and least expected.
Let the Shemitah begin in ernest after September! The calender doesn't lie!
+1
Hey I am in agreement with you about the Shemitah. If you're joking I still believe in it. the cycles have never failed. Cycles are accepted in today's society as long as it is science. But use one of the oldest cycles in recorded history which happens to be associated with spirituality and you get persecuted. Same as it ever was. It is all good because I was once one of the ignorant. How much you want to bet someone brings up the word starting with R.
There are a lot of deeply religious people serving mammon. This could become a self fulfilling prophecy...
;-D
i agree. A lot of lies in the world even if religion is your thing. They love their baal.
Hopefully it IS a self fulfilling prophecy.
Let the whole damned Economic paradigm collapse.
Yup, pretty much all awake folks agree that the longer the party goes on, the worse the hangover is going to be. I gave up drinking about 5 years ago. One of the best things I ever did...
;-D
glad to hear you got your life in order. sometimes it is hard for us that know the truth to cope with it.
i hope so too Tom.
No joke. Nobody can cheat the calendar.
I say this gigantic shitcan will be kicked !
It depends upon what the Greek Parliament does, doesn't it?
Can you read the Minister's minds?
I cannot.
Tsipras is not in a position of Glorious Dictator like our Most Holy Messiah on High, Barack Obama.
The Greek Representatives actually represent the people.
(Maybe we ought to try that out here in Amerika??? Nahhh..We like our Dictators who rule by Executive Order. That is why we are so DECISIVE...That gives us our STRENGTH, our MIGHT and makes for a STRONG COHESIVE GOVERNMENT. Hail to the State. Let the Fourth Reich reign over all...right? Hail Obama. Hail Obama. He is GOD on Earth. Hail him.)
LOL
Duct tape diplomacy
Hmmm shocked I tell ya. fucking whore.
Greeks don't even spread their legs. How is he the whore when they're getting more money for nothing.
Reforms or cuts? PFFFFT.. just bullshit talk. Greece will do what Greece does best. Cheat, lie and steal.
as if there was another option. and the Greeks accept it...Greek style!
Any loan needs to be repaid and has a interest tag on it.
What morons will loan more money to keep it from imploding while it’s those exact loans that made it implode?
Even a kid understands it!!
Exactly. So why do we allow our political class and banksters to pretend that we are stupid.
If the Greeks can't be shown the door, then let 'em and the other roaches have the building they've infested.
We can start again. Germany has more gold than any of the others combined. Wel maybe not quite.. unless we count private gold holdings.
Fuck 'em all. You're from Belgium? Are you with us or with the others?
"Are you with us or with the others?"
There is no "us". Countries don't do anything. The people of a given country don't do anything. There are only generalizations, perceptions, and tendencies - but it's all aggregate. Neither countries nor organizations are lending money, borrowing money, or spending money. It is people - people in positions of power. The idea that these people give a shit about their country, or their countrymen is a fairytale. Anyone in a position of power didn't get there by acting in their own country's best interest. They act in THEIR OWN self interest. They use their positions and power to leverage PERSONAL GAIN. Anything talking about how a given country is doing this or that is BULLSHIT - it's specific people in positions of power doing something that benefits THEM, not the country, and certainly not the people.
well, to a certain extent, but not entirely. People in power are constrained by what the populace thinks and so have to take the general interest into account. If you think German politicians are not constrained by perceptions of the German public, than you are incorrect imho. There certainly is an "us". You dispute the existence of a German identity ?
Maybe people are all the same they need money & Careers are fragile.
But wonder why Germany doesn't have a "Bonn Day", a "Berlin Day", a "Frankfurt Day" where mayors, Bundesrat, Kreise, and Länder representatives go to lodge protests with the Budestag?
Seems like might take planing some funding and day of travel or phased weeks of travel to keep the pressure up.
But even the lower levels of government are hooked on Federal Money here in the States (Soft Coup).
Germany has more gold?
Have you forgotten where it is?
Just the official numbers:
- Rank, Country/Agency, Tons Gold,
1. United States, 8,133.5,
2. Germany, 3,383.4,
3. IMF, 2,814.0,
4. Italy, 2,451.8,
5. France, 2,435.4,
6. Russia, 1,238.3,
7. China, 1,054.1,
8. Switzerland, 1,040.0,
9. Japan, 765.2,
10. Netherlands, 612.5,
20. Spain, 281.6,
21. Austria, 280.0,
38. Australia, 79.9,
Who taught the Australians that PM were unneeded?
"...Of the remaining 103,000 tons of gold, about a third (35,000 tons) had been made into gold bars held by national banks." (1986 Study)
you are a way of reality :
The figure, almost triple the 1,054 tons of gold reported in 2009, was calculated based on trade data, domestic output, and China Gold Association figures by Bloomberg Intelligence.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-04/whos-next-china-finally-starts-...
http://moneymorning.com/2015/04/30/china-gold-reserves-to-be-revealed-af...
http://english.pravda.ru/business/finance/15-05-2015/130611-china_gold_d...
considering your numbers are 2009 old, i assume from now they must be way above what you reported, and almost in top 3 rank.
Yeah, I captured this: Bloomberg Intelligence estimates The People's Bank of China may have tripled its holdings of bullion since 2009, to 3,510 metric tons, based on trade data, domestic output, and China Gold Association figures.
#TV88: Bullshit! Ft. Knox is full of dust bunnies and dead flies...
;-D
Nerve Gas...Fort Knox has Nerve Gas Canisters in the vaults.
I do believe that there has not been any Gold at Ft. Knox for a very long time...since the middle 1990s.
The US Mint has even announced that they suspended minting Gold Coins due to lack of supply from outside distributors.
They had those announcements on their own website at one point in time but they have since removed the announcements and have censored themselves.
The US Mint runs out of Gold?
Since Fort Knox is the US Mint Depository and since the US Mint depends upon outside suppliers for Gold Planchets then you can be certain that the Depository's supplies have been depleted.
I have a long memory and remember what I read. Furthermore there are vestiges of those announcements in Coin World Magazine publications...which...they cannot censor...yet.
You believe this shit? No wonder so many people think Yellen is going to raise rates yesterday.
REPORTING Official Numbers is NOT a commentary on VALIDITY.
my friend, first convince us you are ( part of ) a fully sovereign entity by expelling the American troops from German territory. ( hint : act through France, by forging a deal that expels them from the EU as a whole, including Belgium )
And as far as gold goes : forget about that. The value of gold is a social construct, nothing we can't change.
The value of gold is a social construct, nothing we can't change.
Who is we?
Are you working for someone that has an interest in changing Billions of People's perceptions?
Good luck with that. You have a lot more propaganda to produce.
"Who is we ?"
Me and the person I replied to, or more broadly, me and the Germans that endure the implied threat of not having their gold returned, or even more broadly, me and every other human that believes in cooperation, modesty, trust, loyalty and sacrifice. Not exactly what gold stands for.
Technically if a loan has a negative interest rate, it will pay itself off... "Winning"...
OT but maybe in the USA the power of the people at the state and local level is kept under control by brown-shirts from the major political parties. Like federal funds are going to be at risk of loss if you don't play the game and we will keep you out of elections if you go off message.
- Democrats Brown-Shirts
- Republicans Brown-shirts
- Chamber of Commerce Brown-Shirts
- Right Wing Foundations Brown Shirts
- Left Wing Foundations Brown-Shirts
"Mommy, what did you do all those years?"
"Honey, I was a Brown-Shirt for National Power Held by Wall Street, Transnationals, and VICHY DC."
with -100% rate, yes.
I am pretty sure ECB will continue to loan and I predict IMF will return as well. So to your question: We are going to loan from our own money - forced.
I think ML floated more bonds so Argentian could pay interest - in the 1990's?
I'm just sitting here watching the world go round and round, I really love to watch it roll.....No longer riding on the merry go rou, ound!
I just had to let it go.... John Lennon.
The bankers need to repay us.....copied from one of my favorite posters on zerohedge...
OT The Greek soap opera is truly the never ending story, but I see more illegals in my area every week.
It's the number one issue in the Iowa polls, so far. Haven't seen many illegal Greek refugees yet.
Not nearly enough coverage, anywhere.
I guess we have a lot of Somalis and Yemenis even in the Midwest.
1988 I went through Texas and stopped in a town for gas and their was like 20 Pakistanis or something all around me.
Must be Iraqis, Kurds, Libyians, and Syrians here somewhere.
How many refugees do you think you could stuff into Detroit before anyone would notice?
Greek Lawn Chairs - Sale Now On! (Again)
Seriously, when people revolt, it won't matter what polititions or bankers do or think.
That's it. Tsipras is finished, disgraced, thrown out of office, the mistakes of Ramsay MacDonald will not be repeated.
Maybe the Greeks should try a different approach and execute and hang the fucker upside down like Mussolini?
He will move to the metro Detroit area and open a Coney Island hot dog restaurant.
Pussy.
FWIW .. I'm not a happy camper. Extension, more good money after bad money.. possibly 3rd bailout...
for what? more bullshit "reform" ideas that won't get implemented?
FUCK ALL OF THE PLAYERS AT ECB, IMF, GERMAN GOVERNMENT, ALL GOVERNMENTS ESECIALLY GREEK .GOV IDIOTS
FUCK YOU ALL! BASTARDS!
There's a cure but they want to keep the patient on intensiv care forever!
Germans, quit paying taxes NOW. It's just a big reach around gong show. There will be life after ECB and EZ have collapsed. Go knee deep into USD, gold and silver.
quit paying taxes ... gladly, but how? they suck my money before I even get it.
There are several ways.. use your imagination. The Greeks do it and get away with it. Hire a Greek accountant if you must.
I wouldn't advertise how it's done here in public.
Wake me up when something REALLY happens....
and just exactly what problem does this solve?
There was a can in the middle of the road, and it was in some folks' way.
Well is Greece going to default or not? What's going on here?
Officially, no default.
Practically speaking, they already defaulted and failed months ago.
I was listening to NPR this morning, ( I needed a laugh) and they said, "Greece has agreeded to a bailout extension to keep the country solvent."
What a joke. I laughed and laughed. "Solvent" Too funny.
Feel free to junk me for listening to NPR. I would.
They "made him an offer he couldn't refuse",namely,waking up this morning with Caitlyn Jenner lying spread eagle on the bed next to him..
Two people did not like that? Come on. That was funny. Could have used the horse's head.